Game 3 Adjustments, Low NBA Finals Ratings & Knicks Coaching Search Mess

Summary

No Dunks Podcast Episode Summary
Title: Game 3 Adjustments, Low NBA Finals Ratings & Knicks Coaching Search Mess
Release Date: June 11, 2025
Hosts: Jay Skeets, Tas Melas, Trey Kirby, JD

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1. Introduction

In this episode of No Dunks, hosts Jay Skeets, Tas Melas, Trey Kirby, and JD delve into the critical adjustments ahead of Game 3 of the NBA Finals. They also discuss the disappointing ratings for the Finals, the ongoing Knicks coaching search turmoil, and an update on Darius Garland’s injury.

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2. NBA Finals Game 3 Adjustments

Series Overview:
The NBA Finals between the Indiana Pacers and the Oklahoma City Thunder is tied 1-1, setting the stage for a pivotal Game 3 in Indianapolis.

Key Adjustments for the Pacers:
Tas Melas emphasizes the need for the Pacers to enhance their performance in the paint and better manage Tyrese Halliburton’s role:

“The biggest adjustment is figuring out a way for Tyrese Halliburton to have an impact.” ([03:35])

Defensive Strategies:
The Thunder have effectively turned off Halliburton and the Pacers’ transition game. Tas suggests reallocating Halliburton’s responsibilities to create more favorable matchups:

“Maybe it's time for Tyrese Halliburton to move off the ball a little bit more often.” ([04:10])

Injury Concerns:
There’s apprehension regarding Halliburton’s lower leg injury. As Trey humorously points out, Halliburton remains vague about the specifics:

“Said it's my lower leg. That's all I'm going to say.” ([05:34])

Offensive Execution:
Tas highlights the Pacers' struggle with three-point defenses, noting that OKC has left too many shots uncontested:

“Only 15 of OKC's 36 shots were defended, so 21 of their shots were uncontested.” ([07:00])

Bench Performance:
Obi Toppin emerges as a crucial player for the Pacers, especially when the starters are at rest. Tas underscores his dual role in three-point shooting and bench play:

“Obi Toppin has to hit his pick and pop threes because those have generally been open.” ([16:19])

X-Factors:
Trey identifies Alex Caruso’s defensive prowess as a significant influence on the series:

“The biggest factor is the Caruso factor on OKC on both ends.” ([18:11])

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3. Low NBA Finals Ratings

Current Situation:
Game 2 of the NBA Finals saw the lowest ratings since 2007, drawing only 8.76 million viewers according to Nielsen numbers.

Hosts' Perspectives:

• Trey Kirby: Skeptical about the relevance of Nielsen ratings in the streaming era.

  “Why aren't we into the books here of the NBA to know exactly where games are watched?” ([31:01])

• Tas Melas: Disappointed but understands the shift towards digital streaming.

  “How do you count all that? It’s literally impossible.” ([35:40])

The Athletic's Spin:
The NBA claims over 1 billion views across social media platforms, although the hosts question the accuracy and inclusivity of these numbers.

Market Considerations:
Small market teams like the Thunder may contribute to lower traditional TV ratings despite strong performance.

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4. Knicks Coaching Search Mess

Current Status:
The New York Knicks have denied permission for conversations with potential head coaches, including Jason Kidd:

“The Knicks requested permission Wednesday morning to speak to Mavericks coach Jason Kidd. And Dallas gave a firm rejection.” ([38:00])

Analysis of Decisions:
Tas Melas critiques the Knicks’ impulsive firing of Tom Thibodeau without a clear successor, highlighting inconsistent team-building strategies:

“After going to the conference finals for the first time in a quarter of a century, it just feels like the Knicks were pretty... pretty boring.” ([40:00])

Potential Candidates:
The discussion touches on other coaching prospects like Chris Finch and Ime Udoka, questioning the Knicks' approach to recruiting top coaching talent.

Hosts' Opinions:

• Trey Kirby: Suggests the Knicks may eventually find a suitable coach but acknowledges the current chaos.

  “They didn’t have one planned out.” ([40:52])

• Jay Skeets: Points out the unusual nature of denying access to highly sought-after coaches.

  “They’re getting just shot down.” ([43:12])

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5. Injury Update: Darius Garland

Scenario:
Darius Garland of the Cleveland Cavaliers is undergoing toe surgery, sidelining him for 4-5 months.

Implications for the Cavaliers:
Trey Kirby discusses the impact of Garland’s absence on the team’s backcourt dynamics and trade possibilities:

“This indicates that they're going to try and go forward again with Garland and Mitchell in the backcourt.” ([55:18])

Hosts' Insights:

• Tas Melas: Suggests that Garland's injury makes him less tradeable, potentially keeping him with the team.

  “It probably means Garland is sticking in Cleveland.” ([58:46])

• Jay Skeets: Considers how the Cavaliers might adjust their roster around Garland’s recovery.

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6. Prime Moment of the Week: Victor Wembanyama

Wembanyama’s Off-Court Activities:
Tas Melas shares a lighthearted moment involving Victor Wembanyama (Wemby), who recently challenged a local teen to a game of HORSE and visited a Shaolin temple in China:

“Wemby was suddenly everywhere... he looks amazing.” ([60:05])

Hosts' Reactions:
The hosts humorously discuss Wemby’s shaved head and his dedication to both physical and mental preparation:

“Does he listen to the Wu Tang Clan?” ([61:02])

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7. Conclusion

The hosts wrap up the episode by reiterating the importance of Game 3 in the NBA Finals and expressing anticipation for the upcoming discussions. They encourage listeners to engage with the podcast on various platforms and look forward to dissecting the outcomes of the crucial game.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jay Skeets on Game 3's significance:

  “The team that goes on to win game three is like 32 and 8.” ([02:11])

• Tas Melas on Pacers’ defensive adjustments:

  “Everybody's talking about it, himself included. I got to do more in the first half of these games and that's absolutely true.” ([04:00])

• Trey Kirby on the importance of scoring:

  “They have to get to 110 points. That's what Halliburton did with that game-winning shot.” ([29:38])

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from the No Dunks podcast episode, providing listeners with a clear understanding of the topics covered without needing to listen to the full episode.

Transcript

[Trey Kirby]

I'm not saying I'm obsessed with basketball, but my neighbors definitely know when there's a new doc on prime video because I yell at the TV like I'm coaching the team. And with Amazon Prime, I can always count on fast free delivery when ordering a mini hoop, ankle socks, and three different headbands because style matters even when you're missing layups. Prime is my coach, my hype man, and my gear guy all in one. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into.

[Cam Jordan]

When pro defensive end Cam Jordan isn't running after quarterbacks, he's running his own businesses. He sat down with Microsoft's Jessica Hawke to learn how AI can help.

[Jay Skeets]

As a football player, we're really focused on the X's and Nos. It's fun because it's a strategy game as well, and I think that transitions well into the business world.

[Jessica Hawke]

There's so much data underlying every single thing that you're doing in your business and having a way to unify all that data. This is like electricity. This is a major platform shift, and I think we're all learning together.

[Cam Jordan]

Ready to raise your AI game? Find your winning [e-mail] challengers.

[Paige]

Hi, it's Paige from Giggly Squad. Let's be real. Cat dads are in their golden era. Temptations, America's number one cat treat brand, is celebrating how seriously irresistible these guys are. They've got sensitivity, snack, timing, precision, and their cats adore them. Add in a handful of Temptations treats and boom, you've got a certified cat dad show. More love to the cat dad in your life with Temptations, Cat Treats, and tag your fave moments with catdadsighting. You know we're dying to see them. Anyway, I just wanted to let you.

[Trey Kirby]

Know that I see need to pee.

[Jay Skeets]

Pee.

[Trey Kirby]

And I likey what I seeny. Hooray.

[Jay Skeets]

Good morning, sweet world, and welcome to the no Dunks podcast presented by Amazon Prime. It's Wednesday, June 11, 2025. I'm Jay Skeets here in the classic factory. And alongside me as always, Tas Melas.

[Trey Kirby]

Game three tonight. Yes, sirs.

[Jay Skeets]

Next to him, it's the bearded one, my top shot, hot boy Trey Kirby Ayo. Hey, yo. And over yonder, making the magic happen, super producer jd. Hello. There he is. Here we are. Hello to everybody on YouTube. Hello, podcast listeners. On today's show, the boys are back to discuss what's going on with the Knicks coaching search. They have no Riz. Everybody's saying no. Denied, denied, denied. We'll get into that. I want to get your take on whether you're concerned at all about the low finals ratings after two games and the summer of Wemby off to a hot start. So we'll get into that as well. But let's talk about game three. You set a task finally tonight. Feels like it's been like a week. I know it hasn't, but man, this gap, it's been back breaking anyway. After a last second buzzer beater from Tyrese Halliburton stole game one for the Pacers, OKC bounced back in game two to tie this thing up. So the finals now goes to Indianapolis for a big game three. You want to call it pivotal, knock yourself out. It is big in the finals when teams are tied one one. The team that goes on to win game three is like 32 and 8.

[Tas Melas]

Sounds pivotal history. Yeah, it's pretty sounds pivotal.

[Jay Skeets]

You know, I'm a game five pivotal man. But anyway, let's get into some questions about this game three here. With this series tied one. And the first question is. I'll start with you, Trey, is what is the biggest adjustment the Pacers need to make? You think in game three here to.

[Tas Melas]

Get this victory, they got to call Sherwin Williams. It's time to touch paint. Only 34 points in the paint in both games for the Pacers. So far, OKC has done two things defensively. Turn off Tyrese Halliburton and turn off the Pacers transition attack. One of those has to flip back to Indiana and in this game, and I kind of actually think it's Tyrese Halliburton more so than the transition game. Just because OKC's transition defense is perfect. They're back every single time. You're not going to get the Siakam runouts you saw against New York. So I think maybe it's time for Tyrese Halliburton to move off the ball a little bit more often. We've seen it in the fourth quarters here where they're playing him to one side. The primary benefit of that is that it gets him attacks against a defense that's like barely scrambled. I mean, the most scrambled you're going to get against OKC when they're trying to run a pick and roll for Halliburton up top. The Thunder know how they want to defend that. They're able to load up, they're able to pack the pain, make it tough. When he's playing off a second side action, maybe he gets A down screen before even touching the ball. He's got a little bit of a head start to kind of attack, maybe get into the mid range, get a couple of feet in the paint, spray out, or get a little selfish and shoot some of these floaters. The secondary benefit, I think, is that you can't really help off Tyrese Halliburton. He's a great shooter from the perimeter, which means more opportunity for. For Nem. Hard to get into the two man game, whether it be with Siakam or Miles Turner. And then that's good for the Pacers because it puts Shay, Gilgis, Alexander and whoever the Thunder big man is that's out there into the action. That's kind of the most favorable matchups you're going to get if you're the Pacers. Shea is a great defender, but he's the fifth best defender in the starting lineup. Whoever their center is going to be is going to be the slowest guy on the court because the Pacers have such good speed. So the more often you can get Nemhard a chance, maybe get Siakam some looks, maybe Miles Turner is able to knock down some of these pick and pop threes. I think that opens things up for the Pacers and for Halliburton specifically. Everybody's talking about it, himself included. I got to do more in the first half of these games and that's absolutely true. That's the one big adjustment is figuring out a way for Tyrese Halliburton to have an impact.

[Jay Skeets]

Are you concerned about his lower leg.

[Tas Melas]

Thing, to use his words?

[Jay Skeets]

I mean, he was walking with a limp getting off of the podium there. When he's talking to the media over these last couple of days, he says he's fine, he's going to play. Everybody sort of dealing with injuries, but.

[Trey Kirby]

Said it's my lower leg. That's all I'm going to say.

[Jay Skeets]

I don't want to elaborate.

[Trey Kirby]

Not going to say ankle. Not going to say calf. Not going to say shin.

[Jay Skeets]

Not going to say knee. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Toe.

[Trey Kirby]

Toe. Could be a toe.

[Tas Melas]

Wow. Interesting. Where do you think the lower leg starts?

[Trey Kirby]

You were.

[Tas Melas]

You were going to rule out the knee.

[Trey Kirby]

I was going to stop. Lower than knee? Yeah. I was going to stop at the knee.

[Tas Melas]

Oh, that's the equator.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, you're right.

[Tas Melas]

The knee is the equator of the leg. Everybody knows it.

[Jay Skeets]

But you've talked about this before. You. I'm sure you agree with Trey here. This idea that Haliburton does have to be a little more aggressive and maybe that does start with coming off the ball a bit more.

[Trey Kirby]

There's no doubt. I think it starts with the Pacers defense. To be honest, I thought they did a bad job of getting out to three point shooters the entire game too. And they are so much better inside the arc. But I thought they were kind of dying on screens and if they weren't dying, they're kind of getting suffering from crippled injuries. They were way too slow and that factored into three point shots over and over and over again. It started late in the first and then you could see what they wanted to do in the second quarter. There's a lot of side pick and rolls where the Pacers just weren't ready to get out there. Only 15 of OKC's 36 shots were defended, so 21 of their shots were uncontested. That's way too many now. I think they're just packing it in way too much. They're doing a great job of stopping two point shots. It's kind of odd to see that Pacers have only shot, or excuse me, Thunder have only shot 47% within the two point shots. Like within the arc. 47%. That's not great. But the three point shots are wide open. You could see it Siakam at the end of the first quarter just not getting out to Chet Holmgren for a wide open shot. And then you could see the side picking rules over and over over again in the second quarter. So I think that translates to a better offense for Tyrese Halliburton to get out there. I know that OKC is an incredible transition team. There is no doubt. But I think it just starts from there and they just didn't look like they were getting out to those shots. They were just way too slow. So I think that happened. It starts from there and then it translates to Halberton not stepping on the mid court line for whatever fricking reason he did that or getting confused, pass dribble, turnover, just not being right. And I think it starts from the entire five guys on the defensive end.

[Jay Skeets]

We did see in game two, okc, sga. Obviously it was a coaching decision like set high, high screens like way out on the floor. They don't generally do that, but they saw something after game one where maybe then obviously SGA could sort of sneak through that and then you're playing four on three. Do you think the Pacers should just be like let's instead of dying on these picks, which they did a couple of times, good stuff from Hartenstein and setting those big Ones like just go under everything and maybe pack the pain a little bit and like sort of dare SGA especially. But some of these other guys to see if they can beat you from three, you're saying get out there. But like maybe that is the strategy. Go zone a little bit more. We saw like a few possessions of zone.

[Tas Melas]

They got spoken.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, well, they got turnover right away. And then. Yes. And then they sort of abandoned it very quickly. I'm just, I'm just trying to think. Exactly.

[Trey Kirby]

Well, they got to get up. They're packing the page.

[Tas Melas]

Great.

[Trey Kirby]

And they're, they're somehow defending it well. But the three point shots were just wide open. I mean that's where the math is going to kill them. Like they, they score. Pacers scored four fewer points than they did in Game 1. It wasn't, wasn't all that dramatic. OKC is just going to score. So you got to take away, you got to take away the three point shots, I think.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. What's interesting about the zone or going.

[Tas Melas]

Under or whatever, I mean you can go with zone as long as it's working. If they're missing threes, you can keep playing zone, I guess is kind of how it goes. But that's not their standard def. They don't also like you're saying they don't go under picks. They go over picks every time. And if you set it 30 way feet away from the hoop and Shay beats the double team. That's why they're getting all these open three pointers. They should trap Shay, Gil, just Alexander. They should try and get the ball out of his hands. Easier said than done. But he's destroying them, so why not put two on the ball? At least try it a little bit. See if you can rotate. See if maybe switching to Indiana to the field house. Maybe Dort misses threes. Right. Maybe Caruso doesn't shoot as well as he has been so far. You have the home court advantage now, so try and use it to your advantage by maybe limiting Shay Gil, just Alexander. They haven't been able really to stop him. He was missing some shots in the second half of game one, but otherwise he's getting to the spots he wants to. So I would try something different. Double team him, go under. Like the defense they're playing, their standard defense. It's clearly not working.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. And maybe the answer to all that is like whatever it is, you have to keep switching it up, right. You like whatever, like defensive, like identity. You're throwing it. Be it zone, be it scrambling to double them. Like whatever it is, you can't keep, keep doing it because this team is just too dang good and they're going to figure it out and they get more comfortable with it and then they know where to attack from. You really got to be active in switching it every couple possessions and keeping them on their toes. Yeah, I mean, good luck with that. It's easier said than done.

[Trey Kirby]

And I think they already kind of are with Benedict Matheran coming in off the bench and playing Shea one on one. Half of Shay's shots were on Benedict Matheran, specifically against him because Benedict Mather just guarded him one on one. Now Shay can kill him. And I think Benedict Mathrica was doing a good job of staying down and not jumping. And so they were taking, they're trying to do that and take away the shape penetrations that way, but it wasn't necessarily working. Yeah, she just solved this. It really started late first quarter. This was a close game, late first quarter. But then she decided, all right, I can, I can carve this up. I can get out there when that pick comes way up there to make it a four on three situation. And again, the Pacers were just super slow. It started with Pascal Siakam, the great Pascal Siakam not getting out to Chet Holmgren on a three point shot. I don't know how that happens. It really doesn't. And then they started moving the ball over so the side pick and roll started and then they started carving it up. But maybe it is just going back to the field house and things will be a little bit different.

[Jay Skeets]

And a part of that might be a Kinder whistle. Maybe you do get some easy points at the free throw line. I saw Zach Cram at ESPN noted how in the regular season Oklahoma City did rank 26th in opponent free throw rate and 29th in free throw differential. The Thunder though have attempted more free throws in this final so far. So that is not great. Indiana does, I think have to figure out a way to generate some of these easy points at the line. Again, maybe that's a little home cooking with the whistle and putting on the pressure and getting there, but that goes back to Halliburton a bit too. This guy has barely taken a free throw in like the last six games versus okc. Like I'm talking these two finals and then the two seasons prior, only playing twice, being in different conferences, he has barely got to the free throw line and he's barely touched the paint. Like you said in that first half of game too, I think he took one shot that was like in the paint and it was like at the free throw line. Like he's not touching it at all. He can't get by these guys, especially Dort when he's on him. He is having a real issue getting by Dort at all. And part of that is how physical he can be. And he's much stronger and he's still fast. But maybe he has to really, really put the onus on the officials. Maybe he's got to throw the head back on one of these and get a cheap call or something and get Dort off the floor. Then in comes to someone else really good. But you know my point here. I wonder if they can just get more points of the line.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, Siakam has been the only guy who's really getting to the line for the Pacers. 0 attempts so far in at the free throw line in the finals for Tyrese Halliburton. If Dort gets beat, it's instantly a switch with maybe it's the big who's out there. They do some funky stuff with stunting Caruso at Halliburton. Coming off Kayson Wallace is calling out switches, running from one side of the court to the other to defend a three pointer. Like it's crazy what the Thunder are doing. So maybe they got to work through Siakam a little bit more as well. I would say he had an awkward game too. Went 3 for 11. He's only 10 of 26 so far in in this series, but at least he's an interior player. Maybe let him handle the ball in some of these pick and rolls. Put the two Thunder bigs. Or if it's Jalen Williams who's done an awesome job, get him switched off of Halliburton. I think that would be big. Or off of Siakam. That would be big for getting Pascal some opportunities to attack. They just got to. They got to figure out a way for their offensive players to really shine because they haven't. Halliburton hasn't had a good series thus far. Just like Anthony Edwards didn't have a good series shocker against the Siakam hasn't either. So I kind of feel like we might need to see a little bit more Benedict Matheran. He's giving it back on the defensive end for sure, but at least he's a guy. He's the only guy that really gets in the paint consistently for the Pacers so far. Some of that is playing against the bench, but I don't think T.J. mcConnell's been that good. So maybe more Matheran minutes. I don't know. That probably is a self defeating prophecy. That's not a thing, but you know what I mean?

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Self defeating prophecy.

[Jay Skeets]

That's kind of skeezes.

[Tas Melas]

It kind of is a good one.

[Trey Kirby]

I was okay with it. You didn't even mention Andrew Nemhardt because he was the guy who was able to get it going in the first game in that fourth quarter when things were just kind of stale. I mean, really, this comes down to a few minutes in this series where Indiana won those few minutes. Otherwise, OKC has kicked butt.

[Jay Skeets]

That's why we're talking about a series in the finals. That's one one. Like it's three zero. We are every podcast I've listened to over the last 48 hours. Am I wrong? It feels like it's like, can the Pacers just survive? I mean, it's 1:1. It is tied and they have game three at home. So it's. It's weird that we're doing that. But a big part of it's because they have, you know, played for a majority of the, what, 96 minutes?

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. And those three minutes that they won, they weren't playing it big. OKC was not playing a big. OKC didn't put one out there in that last three and a half minutes. And that's just not gonna happen again. One of Hartenstein or Holmgren is gonna be out there. So they kick butt in a couple different ways. But yeah, I think Nemhard is the guy. As much as we. We focus on Tyrese Halpern, he started game one poorly as well. He just got it going in that last quarter. It's on Nemhardt as well as Siakam, who's. Yeah, who's just off, man, he was off in Game 2, even though he's getting to the line and contributing. And they're defending the. The rim really well. They got six guys who block shots through two games like they are doing a good job in the two point area. It's really weird to call it a two point area inside the arc, but they got to defend better. They got to be ready to go and maybe just being at home will we'll do that for them.

[Jay Skeets]

And if you're keeping track of all the numbers in terms of fouls and free throws and free throws made, OKC has been called for 39 fouls. They've shot 57 free throws and they made 50 of them. Indiana, it's 47, 47 and 34. So that is a 16 point difference there at the foul line. Actually making free throws for Indy to like make this a series to win this thing, pull off the miracle upset. That has to flip. There's just, to me it's just zero chance if that's in OKC's favor because again, that's the one thing you could look at from a dominant regular season team and go, okay, that's a bit of a weak spot. They play so physical. They can get into foul trouble, they can get you at the line, they can give you points. They don't generate all that many really outside of SGA there, but it hasn't been the case through two games so far. So it might be huge here tonight in Game 3. Who has been the biggest X factor to you through two games so far? Either a player or a thing. You've got your eye on TK well.

[Tas Melas]

The player for me is Obi Toppin, but it's because he kind of stands for two things, three point shooting and bench play. In game one, Obi went 17 points 5 of 8 from 3. Indiana outshot OKC 18 to 11 from the three point line. Outscored him on the bench 39 to 28. In game two, Obi Toppin three points on 1 of 8 shooting. He made one of his five three point attempts. Both teams made 14 threes. Oklahoma City had a 43 to 32 advantage on the bench before garbage time came in and James Johnson was getting buckets. Thus far the pacers are a -34 per 100 possessions when Tyrese Halliburton sits. So as much as we're talking about Halliburton and the Pacers offense not looking right, they look even worse when the benches have been in so far. So I think Turner has got to. Miles Turner's got to use his speed advantage. Obi Toppin has to use his speed advantage. That is a place where I think the Pacers can maybe be a little faster. Their bigs are quicker than Oklahoma City. So I think Top is going to have to hit his pick and pop threes because those have generally been open. Same with Miles Turner. They neither. Neither was making them all that much in game two. You can't play even from the three point line. Like you're saying, the Thunder are probably going to have the advantage at the free throw line even if it's minimal. Like I don't know. I think they took seven more free throws in Game 2. That hurts, but it doesn't hurt as much as playing even at the three point line. You Got to beat the Thunder from three or at the offensive glass. That happened both for the Pacers in game one, and I think a lot of that was Obie Toppen played kind of out of his mind. He had the crazy start to this one, throwing the ball all around, but then really settled into the game and looked comfortable playing. He's an athlete on par with the rest of the Thunder, which I think is good for the Pacers, but they're going to have to make their shots. Like those are the ones that Oklahoma City is okay giving up pick and pop threes when they're really putting pressure on the ball handler. Turner's had looks. Toppins had looks. They made him in game one. They didn't make him in game two.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, for me, I think it's the Alex Caruso factor. I know we all talk about it, but really, this game starts in game one and game two when Crusoe comes on the floor and the Thunder just go on their roll because it's contagious for him defensively. Everything trickles down from him. And he can't start games because he can't play 40 minutes. I know everybody's wondering, when does that happen? But he's playing so frigging hard defensively, it's smart for Dagnaut to bring him off the bench. And then you see the game flip both on both ends. And if it flipped in Game 1, and Caruso wasn't even playing that well offensively, didn't have a good night shooting night. And then in game two, when the four threes went down for him, along with his man Aaron Wiggins, who had five off the bench, they rolled. So it is the biggest factor is the Caruso factor on OKC on both ends, really.

[Jay Skeets]

I mean, I think Lou Dort's been amazing on Halliburton, I think we're all just like, oh, Halliburton, just. Just play better. It's like, no, you're in the Dorture Chamber, man. You brought it up like we. That was happening with Anthony Edwards at times. Like, he was sort of like, neutral or neutered, I guess, is the better way to put it. From the Dort factor, man. And then. And then other guys, too. I know they have so many guys, but he's just been. I think so. I think he's just, in fact, underrated with what he does. But Halliburt, when he scores in these playoffs, they're 7 and 1, 20 points. That's all we're looking at. And when he's finishing below that they're a mediocre 6 and 4. So he's does have a sort of number. It'd be really nice for the Pacers to hit. And it's not like Halliburton needs to go give you 40, 44 points, something like that. It's just the touch and paint kicking out, getting maybe a little more aggressive early. I think still getting the free throw would be huge for him, just get some easy ones. But I think Dort's just shut him off. The other thing is, you said the benches in Game two. It was the Thunder bench. It was Wiggins and Caruso. I mean, they went for a ton of points. They combined for 38 points, those two guys. So they beat the Pacers bench game one. The reserves did better for Indiana, 39 to 28. Big part of that was Obi Toppin. So, you know, these are really good starting lineups, but these waves of guys these coaches go to, they can be difference makers in these games. So they're going to hope, if you're an Indiana fan, that the guys at home play better and hit some of these threes.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, Obi Tobin was a special performance because it wasn't even necessarily with bench guys. It was with the starters in the fourth quarter when they needed to come back. And it was just him popping off threes with Nemhardt setting him up, who assisted a couple of his threes. They had four threes combined, him and Turner. So, yeah, he was translated to the starting lineup essentially in the fourth quarter. He was awesome.

[Jay Skeets]

And a lot of those I remember in Game one were because guys were getting into the paint and then it was finding its way out. We talked about the knee Smith one where he kept fighting with the ball. That one got kicked out. You said Nemhardt getting in there, kicking out. It's not like we're saying, hey, Toppin, let's get some high pick and roll action with you to fire from three. No, he's got the looks have to be generated for him. And that's generally a guy's getting into the paint defense collapsing, then finding him in rhythm. And good passes at that, obviously for the right in the pocket.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm not saying I'm obsessed with basketball, but my neighbors definitely know when there's a new doc on prime video because I yell at the TV like I'm coaching the team. And with Amazon Prime, I can always count on fast free delivery when ordering a mini hoop, ankle socks and three different headbands. Because style matters even when you're missing layups Amazon Music that's my pump up playlist for driveway dunks and imaginary crowd cheers. Prime is my coach, my hype man and my gear guy all in one. Whatever you're into, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.com prime to get more out of whatever you're into. Prime One membership endless assists I'm not.

[Tas Melas]

Trying to brag, but I just got a daybed for my porch and I can already tell my outside space game has been changed. Sitting, snoozing. I'm doing it all and I'm doing it outside. Because when the weather turns nice, a brave man likes to feel nature on his face. Wayfair's got everything you need to level up your outdoor space. They have patio sets and lounge chairs, outdoor bars and hot tubs, fire pits, gazebos, and of course daybeds. No matter your decor style, Wayfair is an easy one stop shop where you can get a resort feel without a resort price tag. You want a gazebo? Wayfair's got it. You want some Adirondack chairs? Wayfair's got em. From pergolas to planters, Wayfair's huge selection of outdoor items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your summer home goals with endless inspiration for every space and budget. Plus you get free and easy delivery. Even on the big stuff. Wayfair will literally ship you a hot tub or a trampoline for free. That's crazy. Don't wait. Make your outdoor space your dream oasis today with Wayfair and enjoy it all summer long. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop a huge outdoor selection. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com Wayfair Every style, every Home.

[Cam Jordan]

When pro defensive end Cam Jordan isn't running after quarterbacks, he's running his own businesses. He sat down with Microsoft's Jessica Hawk to learn how AI can help.

[Jay Skeets]

As a football player. We're really focused on the x's and no's. It's fun because it's a strategy game as well and I think that transitions well into the business world.

[Jessica Hawke]

There's so much data underlying every single thing that you're doing in your business and having a way to unify all that data. This is like electricity. This is a major platform shift and I think we're all learning together.

[Cam Jordan]

Ready to raise your AI game? Find your winning edge at Microsoft.com challengers.

[Jay Skeets]

The final question then with this one is is there an under the radar storyline here for game three that you got your eye on?

[Trey Kirby]

Well, listen, the Pacers aren't going to score a ton of points. I think on the other side they have to hope that OKC doesn't spray it out enough where they're three point shooters make enough shots. So I think an under the radar storyline is that when Benedict Matheran comes in, Shea likes taking him one on one. And I think the Pacers will take that because those other guys aren't going to score as much. So Shea shot 21 shots in game number two. Nearly half of them were on Benedict Matheran, a guy coming off the bench. And I think the Pacers will love that. So it's sort of an under the radar storyline in that it doesn't really induce incredible performances from all the Thunder players. As we've mentioned, you know, your Wiggins, your Carusos. So there's that when Matheran's on the floor. I think they want that game. So that's an under the radar storyline. Just one on one. Even though, you know, Shade made some magic otherwise through being able to split screens and do that. But I think the pacers want Shea versus Matheran as much as possible.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. What about you, TK?

[Tas Melas]

Can the Pacers win a game three, currently 03 in the playoffs, minus 44. They need to play off the crowd. They need to get Indiana going crazy. That's when they are the most fun to watch. Flying up and down the court, people are celebrating. A lot of that comes down to home cooking for the role players. Are they going to make their wide open shots? I think Myles Turner has been pretty big in this series. When the Pacers look good, Miles Turner is playing well, banking in threes. That's nice to see. Will it happen again? I don't know. But he needs to play well for the Pacers to actually win. Another thing under the radar. Shay Gilders Alexander, 36, 5 and 5 through two games and he's kind of like the third thing we talk about. It's like Tyrese Halliburton. It's the role players. And then oh yeah, by the way, the MVP is putting up LeBron MJ numbers. So that's pretty cool. And the third thing for me is what's the NBA going to put on the floor for this one? Oh, nothing in game one.

[Jay Skeets]

Tried a couple of things in game.

[Tas Melas]

Two for the trophies. In game two, the script looked better. I thought it looked more natural since it's not bright.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, glowing little glowing.

[Tas Melas]

So they're gonna try something. Do they make the. They make the trophy a little bigger? Do they turn down the opacity so it looks like it's part of the floor? I don't know. But they gotta do something because people are watching now.

[Trey Kirby]

Do they flip the other one that's on the other side?

[Jay Skeets]

Oh, I saw a lot of people like that. I like that.

[Trey Kirby]

That would make more sense. It would feel like it's not.

[Jay Skeets]

To make it look more realistic. Yeah, right, Right. Why are they both looking at camera angle?

[Tas Melas]

The other one should be flipped.

[Trey Kirby]

I like that one.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. Keep your eye on that. I got a few great stats here from Law Murray at the Athletic about the Pacers when they score at least 110 points here in the postseason. They're 13 0. So that magic number T.K. i know you once talked about, like the 105 and all that.

[Tas Melas]

It was 105. Lost this last.

[Jay Skeets]

Exactly. Just got over. Yeah. So 110, 13 0. When they don't hit that, they're oh, and five when the Pacers make at least 46% from the field. 13. Oh. When they don't. Oh, and five when the pacers make at least 36% from three. 13 and zero. When they don't owe five. They all go hand in hand, of course, three point shooting, just overall shooting and then the points racking up and that's what they need here. And you know, they're doing it against maybe one of the best defenses we've ever seen. So they got to at least try and get one of these back at home. Are you confident that this goes back to two, or are you concerned that because of the discourse and we've talked about this series that the, The. The douchebag sweep in play here?

[Trey Kirby]

I think it is in play. Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

The douchebag sweep.

[Trey Kirby]

The douchebag sweep. Yes. Yes. I think there's a very, very good chance.

[Jay Skeets]

Just the idea of OKC being so.

[Trey Kirby]

Talented, almost playing to their capacity.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. And figuring things out as the series goes on.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, I think so. For sure.

[Jay Skeets]

I would be a little concerned, like, at some point is there going to be like a monster Jalen Williams game? Like, I just. He is really good.

[Tas Melas]

He's good.

[Jay Skeets]

He's an all NBA all star guy. And he's played well defensively, but he's been very, very quiet.

[Tas Melas]

Jumper has been off for sure.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. It's like that's coming at some point. I don't know when, but he's gonna have a monster game now. He had a monster game against The Nuggets, and they actually lost that one. So you never know. He has to pair it with SGA and the other guys. But I feel like that's coming at some point. So that's not good if you're a Pacers fan. But what do you think about the 2, 2, 3, 1 going back? What's your vibe?

[Tas Melas]

All right, MJ won a title, losing Game 1 and then winning four straight. LeBron won a title, losing Game 1 AND then winning four straight. We just talked about how Shea, Gilgis Alexander is putting up MJ LeBron numbers here in the finals. So I picked Thunder and five for a reason. Yeah, I didn't necessarily know it would go this way. I think that's probably the way it's going. But if I'm a Pacers fan, I'm saying we scored 66 in the second half of both of these games. Yeah, they have figured out how to score some of that in game two, I think. Was the Thunder maybe taking their foot off the break or off the gas a little bit and knowing that they could trade baskets? Because Indiana didn't have much defense in the second half of Game 2, but at least they're able to generate some offense. So they gotta be a little bit confident that they can win one of these two. My guess is that we go back three one, though.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. Yeah. I mean, you guys did have Thunder in five, I had Thunder and six. So I guess I'm more like confident that the Pacers can. Can get one of these. Thank God Halliburton hit that shot at the end of game one. I will say that as someone that is doing a daily NBA podcast, like, again, we're talking about this like it's over, but it's 1:1. But, you know, thank God. I mean, Otherwise it'd be 2, 0 for OKC and we would be talking sweep, sweep. Sweet. But hey, they maybe are a team of destiny too. Let's just hope for a close game tonight. That's what we want. Anything else on this one?

[Trey Kirby]

No, I just love those stats that you mentioned because it. They really just have to get to 110 points. And that's what Halliburton did with that game winning shot. I mean, they're at 109. Just hit a shot, man. They got it.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, they went the number.

[Jay Skeets]

Yep. That is the magic number tonight, if you're a Pacers fan. All right, we will be obviously back here tomorrow morning to break it all down.

[Tas Melas]

Do you think the Pacers will go back to okC? Up 3:1.

[Jay Skeets]

No, no, I don't.

[Tas Melas]

I don't hear a lot of people calling for that one.

[Jay Skeets]

No, no, no, no. They're going to. They're almost. I think they're happy to make a best of three double finals. Yes, exactly. All right, that's enough on game three again. That's tonight at 8:30pm Eastern on ABC. Can't wait to see what's on the floor. Can't be upset about that. But we got some other things to talk about. Let's some headlines for the guys and for everybody watching here on YouTube and podcast listeners. First one, it is finals related from front office sports. NBA Finals Game 2 ratings lowest since 2007 excluding the bubble. So Game 2 of the NBA Finals averaged 8.76 million viewers Sunday night on ABC based on the Nielsen numbers reported by Sports Media Watch. The least watched NBA Finals Game 2 since 2020. Heat, Lakers. That was 7.54 million. And that was played again in the Walt Disney World, you know, bubble there because of the COVID 19 pandemic. Is this news, Tas, that, you know, we had a low ratings in Game one and got even worse in Game two despite the Halliburton game winner.

[Trey Kirby]

I don't know what these Nielsen reports are anymore. They're a thing of the past. They were. They truly are. Who watches games and where they watch games is the question. Why aren't we into the books here of the NBA to know exactly where games are watched? Because these numbers just don't mean anything to me anymore. Okay. Things change. We're watching them streaming. We're watching them via the NBA app. We're not watching them with our Nielsen boxes on our TVs anymore. It's just the thing of the past. I mean, I really would like to understand how these numbers happen.

[Jay Skeets]

So you don't seem too concerned.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm not concerned.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

I don't think the NBA is concerned either. We knew they were going to go down in terms of just markets.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Because of the small markets. I think people were maybe a little surprised that it did go down from Game one because of again, maybe the upset victory, the huge shot. People thought maybe it would stay pretty close or even tick up. So that going the opposite way, maybe not great. But are you concerned? Is this newsworthy to you, Trey?

[Tas Melas]

I mean, I think it's disappointing that the number dropped after Game one. For sure. I'm with Taz. Like, just you're sponsored by YouTube TV. Tell us how many people are watching specifically on YouTube TV. My dad is here. We Both watch on my dad's account. So I don't know if that counts as one or two viewers.

[Trey Kirby]

Right. So many factors.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, exactly. How's there a Steve in Atlanta and a Steve in DeKalb? DeKalb. DeKalb. But yeah, Tess is right. Everybody knew the ratings were gonna be down. Nobody expected them to say that this was the highest rated TV show of the month, which I think is a hilarious claim from the NBA. But before the Finals, we said, this is going to be a short term hit. Maybe in the long term it works out for the NBA because basically these ratings right now are on par with the bubble. Throw that one out. Cav. Spurs and then net spurs from what, 2002, 2003, something like that.

[Jay Skeets]

Cavs was 07. Yeah, yeah. And then before that. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

And then you look at those teams, it's like the Cavs became a draw. Obviously they had LeBron James, but Jet going forward from there, like the Cavs were a major team. And after LeBron had his first finals appearance, the Spurs I don't really think ever became a draw. So maybe that is okc. Maybe OKC is the new spurs. Where teams are like. They're like, this is one of the best teams in the league. They've got a straight up hall of Famer leading the way, and nobody really cares all that much just because they keep to themselves. They're kind of low key personalities and they just go out and dominate, specifically on the defensive end. But we're going to get a freshly minted star off of this. Either Shane Gilgeous Alexander caps off an awesome season where he was the mvp, the scoring leader, and likely the Finals mvp. He would be.

[Jay Skeets]

Right now we'll be debating whether, like, where it ranks as one of the greatest seasons of all time.

[Tas Melas]

Some will. Yes, indeed. Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

And be there. Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. And then Tyrese Halliburton, if he pulls it off, this is like one of the greatest championship runs of all time. Going through being the underdog in every series after their first rounder against the injured Bucks, you also have to figure that the Thunder are going to be good going forward here. The Pacers are probably going to be good. They're mostly a young team, and at least outside of Miles Turner, they got everybody coming back. So this is kind of the baseline, I think, for both the Thunder and the Pacers. The Thunder have a chance to go up after winning the championship. The Pacers certainly do. I think it's more likely the Thunder make it back. But yeah, I mean, this was kind of to be expected. These are very small markets with kind of anonymous players. Unless you're really tapped in.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. And I mean, you know, you brought up the NBA PR spin. We actually have a tweet about that. Because they didn't take long after the Nielsen low ratings got released to Tweet this. Games 1 and 2 of the NBA Finals are the two most watched programs across all of television since the first week of May.

[Trey Kirby]

Maybe bones.

[Jay Skeets]

Boom. In your face. Nearly half of all 18 to 34 year olds watching TV during Games 1 and 2 were tuned into the NBA Finals.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay, okay, that's a good one.

[Jay Skeets]

And the final one. The NBA Finals have generated more than 1 billion views. Billion with a B and counting. Across social media. A record through two games. So, okay, this is what you were sort of saying. Tasks like, all right, these Nielsen ratings.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay, where do these views come from? Explain it to me like I'm a 6 year old.

[Jay Skeets]

I would love to know the Nielsen. You're asking.

[Trey Kirby]

Just all TV ratings, all basketball games watched, period. Because it really is. It's a mystery. I mean, where they watch it streaming. As Trey, you brought up two people are watching one feed. Even these, these information here on the. The stats here. The claim of being the most watched TV program since May overlooks streaming data. As a 2024 Sports Business Journal report indicates, 30% of NBA Finals audiences now use platforms like ESPN Plus. But don't those count? Don't the numbers on ESPN count?

[Tas Melas]

Not for Nielsen ratings.

[Jay Skeets]

I wouldn't think so.

[Tas Melas]

You gotta get a box. You gotta be a Nielsen family.

[Trey Kirby]

Well, that's ancient. We're not in. We're not watching rural antenna TV feeds. I mean, it doesn't happen anymore.

[Jay Skeets]

True.

[Tas Melas]

But like you're saying it's hard to. It's hard to measure the digital streams. Right. Like I'm saying, I'm not. I know I'm not the only person using their parents to watch these games. I know some people are streaming it illegally. How do you count all that? Yeah, it's literally impossible. But we know how to count. Oh, that box says that TV watch this game. So that's what we're going to hear.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

And that's what we've always heard. And they even gamed that to make it better. Like allowing out of home viewing to count.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

So look, people aren't watching this finals that much. That's not.

[Trey Kirby]

I guess. I guess so.

[Jay Skeets]

Right.

[Tas Melas]

Like it's not surprising for the two teams that are here. But there's ups, there's downs. You got to have a legendary player to really draw eyes and. And you have to win your first title to start becoming a legendary player.

[Jay Skeets]

Right. Or of course, being in a huge market which just bumps up those. Sure.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jay Skeets]

Like. Like if the Knicks are here, this is a completely different story. It is.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

Like they're just way better because of obviously the New York metropolitan market. Like, that's just a fact. And in addition to that, maybe just the Knicks fan base being much larger than a Pacers fan base. All that.

[Trey Kirby]

Anyway, anyway, somebody. Somebody from the office, it's got to explain exactly how it all works just because I want to know. I want to be able to count ESPN+ and I. I threw out that stat there and I didn't mention where it came from because I don't know how to pronounce gro or grok or whatever it is on X. But that's where it came from. So this was that thing that I even mentioned. Yeah. Was that even legitimate? Probably not.

[Tas Melas]

Anyway, it's hard to know. The thing I was also wondering was they mentioned the NBA Finals have generated more than1.1 billion views. Does that count our videos? You know, if it hashtag at NBA Finals.

[Jay Skeets]

I took that as it was their own work only.

[Tas Melas]

Only straight up NBA accounts. Maybe.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

I mean a billion is a lot.

[Jay Skeets]

I mean you had that one went viral on Tick Tock for us. Yeah, like flirting with a million.

[Tas Melas]

Exactly. I mean, you add them up, but still, that's only 1 million out of a thousand million. Yeah, I know, I know. So I think they do count.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay.

[Tas Melas]

I think they're counting everything.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay. Hey, look. Well, you're welcome.

[Tas Melas]

Yep.

[Jay Skeets]

All right, next headline here. Let's talk here about the Knicks from the Athletic. We'll go with this one though. We've got a little update from the Athletic yesterday. Mavs believe Jason Kidd will return as head coach next season. Not filled Knicks vacancy shams about an hour ago did tweet the Knicks requested permission Wednesday morning. That's today. To speak to Mavericks coach Jason. Kidding. And Dallas gave a firm rejection. You think they hit him with the Mutombo finger? So the Knicks have been denied now by kid on kid, Minnesota's Chris Finch and Houston's IME Udoka. Is this news? What's going on here with the Knicks coaching search?

[Tas Melas]

I think it's news because there's no news from the Knicks yet. Which means they didn't have a plan for getting rid of Tom Thibodeau. They. From the reporting, it seems like they had a bunch of Postseason meetings talked about things like that. And then somebody made the call to let go of Tom. Was it Leon Rose? Was it James Dolan? Who knows? It feels like Jalen Brunson likes Tom Thibodeau, but maybe Carl Anthony Towns and Mikhail Bridges don't. Feels like Josh Hart does. Nonetheless, he's gone. And this is kind of becoming a pattern of impulsivity. I feel like for the Knicks, they played things pretty straightforward when they were building this team up until last summer, where they're like five first round picks for Mikhail Bridges. We're reuniting all of the Villanova guys. Wait a second. We're going to trade DiVincenzo and Randle for Carl Anthony Towns, and now we're going to fire Tom Thibodeau? After going to the conference finals for the first time in a quarter of a century, it just feels like the Knicks were pretty. Pretty boring. The way they built their team, to be quite honest, made smart trades, never really went in with all of their draft capital for the future to change something. And it really built the Knicks back up in a smart way that they had not been doing from basically 2000 to 2020. And then starting last summer, they got close in that conference or in that second round against the Pacers, seven games. They're like, we are right there. All we got to do is one more thing and then one more other thing and then one more other thing, and suddenly they're left without a coach. They can't lure anybody from another team, and. And now they're going to be scrambling to see who they get. Maybe they get Michael Malone, who's going to be available. He's kind of a Tom Thibodeau style, though. He does have a championship, maybe a little bit better. Offense or Mike Brown, who used to be a defense guy, turned into an offense guy. It just seems like the Knicks thought they were going to have their pick of the litter. Everybody wants to come to the Knicks, but guess what? Other teams have a say in things, too.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, this isn't. Yeah, that's a good point. It's not the coaches necessarily saying, no, no, I. You know, Jason Kidd or Yodoka or Finch saying, I. No, I don't want to talk to you, New York. It's the team that employs them saying, no, we're denying that request. So that's where we're at here. Yeah. Do you agree that, like, the Knicks fired Tibbs without a surefire successor here in place? Feels like it.

[Trey Kirby]

I think that's very clear. They didn't have one planned out. Do I think it's a completely negative at this point? No, I don't think so. I think they can still find the one, but it is making every single headline. I find the Jason Kidd scenario pretty interesting. Also that they've hired Jay Triano as an assistant coach, so frankly lead their offense as their second assistant. Did he hire them? Did he hire Jay Triano? I think that part is interesting. I mean, they went to the finals last year. This year, as we were told in Nico Harrison's press conference, along with Jason Kidd, when they let go Luka Doncic, that we think of players as the same. We. We think of the same archetypes. So then they're supposed to go out there and run out AD and. And Kyrie Irving. They didn't have those guys out there. But now there's an assistant coach in there. So I do wonder how the relationship between Nico Harrison and Jason Kidd is going. Frankly, I think that's a fair question. The Knicks didn't have a plan, though. But when we step back and they go hire a younger guy, you know, like a. Whether it's a Kenny Atkinson type, whether it's Thunder assistant Dave Bliss, who's an incredible X's and O's type of coach, as a younger player, as a younger coach, I think it'll be fine. But these names are making incredible headlines and that's what people want to talk about. And that's what people are talking about in that they've asked for Doka or Chris Finch or haven't gone through that process at all. But I wonder how many names are out there. Maybe we're not even hearing about them. Reaching out to the Thunder for Dave Bliss, who again would be incredible, incredible coach. Similar to what Jordan Otto did or the Suns did in hiring Jordan. A younger coach, which is entirely fine. Five guys touching the ball with the Knicks. That's what they should want.

[Jay Skeets]

You say it's entirely fine, but, like, there is a lot of pressure on whoever is coming in to coach the New York Knicks. It's like a championship or bust done, like immediately. Well, it is. What do you mean? They can go deep mortgaged all of their picks for a really good team.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay Skeets]

So had a good coach, had success, suddenly fire him again. Weird. A little bit weird. And then don't have a plan who's going to replace him. Like, these are embarrassing headlines and they just look like nicks of old, quite frankly, where you're like, what was the plan here, guys? Like, you're getting just shot down. Here, like, so did you think you had a legit chance at one of these guys?

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, but what if they are calling legitimate coaches and there are opportunities, other opportunities that they are getting some interviews for? I don't. I don't think it's all negative in the end. I think moving on from Tom Thoreau. Yeah, it was puzzling at the. At the moment that it happened, but then you look at it and you say, well, yeah, different things could be happening on the floor. Where five guys touch the ball, there's. There's more shots happening. There's different defensive schemes where we play a center alongside Karl Anthony Towns, where we play our bench more, and Thomas couldn't do that.

[Jay Skeets]

Both things can be true, that they are convinced Tibbs is not the guy to get them to the Promise. But also the other truth to this can be like, what are you doing?

[Trey Kirby]

Finch would be good. Udoka would be good. Yes, those are also true coaches right.

[Jay Skeets]

Now for other teams that are actually good, too. This is the other part of this. These are. These aren't coaches on bad teams. All three of these guys.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. Before those names came out. And you saw the Jason Kidd scenario as I brought up with the whole story about bringing in an assistant coach and having to deal with everything that happened in Dallas this year and even missing one postgame press conference because he needed a rest, as he said. I mean, you'd think that this one was the most legitimate of all of them. And I wouldn't put it past Jason Kidd at some point to want to leave Dallas.

[Jay Skeets]

Well, yeah, James Edwards III for the Athletic did. Right. And this was before we got confirmation that Dallas did deny the Knicks a chance to talk to Kid. But he said, what if Kid does prefer to coach elsewhere? Could Kid put up enough of a stink behind the scenes to make the organization's decision makers change their mind? It feels like the Knicks are banking on that. Some people think Kid's just doing this to parlay the Knicks interest into another contract extension, lucrative money and all that. That could be a part of the equation.

[Trey Kirby]

Sure.

[Jay Skeets]

But, yeah, you can trade a coach, by the way, for picks. Yep, that's happened. It's happened for. It's happened for Jason Kidd. Thank you. Not that the Knicks have a lot of draft capital to do that, but, yeah, it could be done. But anyway, this is all. It's just very weird. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird for a team that was in the conference finals, especially.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. Yes, it is. But, like, I wasn't here when you guys did The Thibodeau show. But it's kind of like we talk about a lot of teams. If you were going to fire him midway through the season, why didn't you do it before? They did it before. Understandable, I think, but just weird paired up with how far the Knicks went. They just. I don't know. Knicks fans didn't like their team this season at all, and they thought Bibbs was doing a bad job until they made a miracle run to the conference finals. But it's such a time as a flat circle thing. Jason Kidd, at the end of his Dallas career, left the Mavs for the Knicks, ruined his relationship with the Mavericks at the time. They're like, we'll never retire this guy's jersey now. That was when Cuban owned the team. Obviously he came back. Also, Jason Kidd has been traded as a coach. It hasn't happened to a lot of players or a lot of coaches, but he's one of them. So two of these things. I don't know. Maybe the Mavs should let him go. They're not going to get a big package back, but maybe they could get one first round pick late, which later on, which would be fine. And if he's checked out, like, if he wants to leave, why do you want him there?

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm puzzled as to the relationship between Nico Harrison and him. Does he actually want Jason Kidd to be their head coach? I'm not entirely convinced because of trading Luca in the first place and having Jason Kidd sit there in that press conference and having to say, yeah, I understand. He. He looked like he wasn't enthused by that whole thing. And then you start to link up. He's got a relationship with Jalen Brunson, having been there for one single season. He could have, you know, luka Doncic Part 2 in New York, going there so that it starts to snowball like that. But this could also just be a PR move for the Dallas Mavericks, saying, maybe we just can't do this again this, this year. Maybe we'll let him go next year after Jay Triano and Sean Sweeney have a great year beside him on the bench.

[Jay Skeets]

TBD on the Knicks coaching search. And, yeah, what Dallas does with Kid, I guess.

[Cam Jordan]

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[Jay Skeets]

We're really focused on the X's and O's. It's fun because it's a strategy game. As well. And I think that transitions well to the business world.

[Jessica Hawke]

There's so much data underlying every single thing that you're doing in your business and having a way to unify all that data. This is like electricity. This is a major platform shift and I think we're all learning together.

[Cam Jordan]

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[Trey Kirby]

Wait, did I say job title yet?

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[Jay Skeets]

All right, next headline here. I'm getting into the front office now from the ajc. I'll just give you the headline here. Hawks finalizing deals with two senior executives in the front office. So Hawks new general manager Ansi Saleh are finalizing deals to hire Pelicans GM Bryson Graham as the team's senior vice president of basketball operations and 76ers executive Peter Dinwiddie as senior VP of strategy and analytics. So both those guys, Trey, are going to report to Saleh here. And this new front office structure in Atlanta, Is this news?

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, new. Dinwiddie just dropped. How about that? Those conversations between the Pelicans and the Hawks when they were doing the Dejounte Marie trade, they must have went incredibly well because they're hiring the guy that helped do the trade. Which worked out better for the Hawks long term, it seems, at the very least. But early on in their GM search, the Hawks were linked to Bob Myers, Tim Connolly, John Hammond, Elton brand name GMs. Instead, they're going with the first time GM in Anse Saleh and two front office execs that I'm sure people really tied into the league know, but are kind of unknown to the rest of us out here. Which makes me think Quinn Snyder must have a pretty important voice here in Atlanta. Even though he is left over from the Landry Fields regime, he seems to be the most experienced guy that's around. So I think he'll kind of have a lot of influence on what the team looks like. Which makes me then question, will Trae Young still be around? My guess is yes at this point because his trade value is probably pretty low, all things considered. Surely they would have wanted to trade him at the trade deadline. Or maybe last summer they ended up doing the Murray deal instead because they could get something better back for it. But Quinn Snyder didn't come to Atlanta to try and be a play in team. He wanted to be a playoff team. And I think the Hawks have a better chance of being a playoff team if Trae Young is still around. So if Quinn Snyder has a voice in the front office, I think that means Trey stays.

[Trey Kirby]

This is true. Quinn will have a huge name. I do like the signings here. This is news because we don't generally know these names and I think that's entirely fine. The fact that you get Bryson Graham, who drafted Dyson Daniels in New Orleans now he was kind of under the wing of David Griffin there, but he led the drafts in New Orleans. And if you look at those names, those are good names. Trey Murphy got him way later than you should have. Irv Jones got him in the second round, even in the 20s. Dyson Daniels, Jose Alvarado as a signing, all great stuff.

[Jay Skeets]

Najee Marshall.

[Trey Kirby]

Najee Marshall going to sign him as well. So these two guys under Saleh. Yeah, makes sense. And they still could, they still could go get a president of basketball operations who oversees everything. I think it's unlikely. Although you know, the ajc, Lauren Williams said their search for a president of basketball operations will continue. It is unlikely, I think, but it's still an open scenario there where Saleh would be the GM as. As the guy under the president of basketball operations with Bryson, Grant and Dinwiddie. Another Dinwiddie who knew working under him.

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah. Trae Young is eligible for a four year, 228.6 million dollar max extension starting this July though you can like obviously push that down the road if you want. So the Hawks, do they pay that? Do they just go max? Do they try and get Young to resign for a smaller amount? Do they look to trade them and retool the roster with more of their younger guys? Jalen Johnson and Rhys Sachet, Dyson Daniels, you could throw in there. And again, they could just postpone that. They don't have to do that right away and see how the season plays out. So big decisions from this front office. But, yeah, it is funny. You see these names and you're like. You read about them a little bit. Like, totally well respected. Like, Graham's an interesting story. Like, he started as an intern. He literally was an intern for the Pelicans and, like, worked his way up through video coordinating. And up, up, up, up, up. Became their draft guru, basically, like you said. So it's a hell of a story. And now obviously has a pretty executive role here with the Hawks. I like what the Hawks are doing. They've got some decisions here, especially the Trae Young one of it all.

[Tas Melas]

I mean, it'll be 27 at the start of the season. There have been a lot of teams here in Atlanta built around Trae Young, and they all win 41 games. So are you going to pay him four years at.

[Jay Skeets]

What did you say, 228 would be the max extension? Yeah.

[Tas Melas]

A lot.

[Jay Skeets]

It's a lot.

[Tas Melas]

60 million for Trey Young on into his 30s hasn't proven that he can carry a team to the next level. That's a tough decision to make because he ain't gonna sign for a discount.

[Trey Kirby]

No.

[Tas Melas]

Not after being the number one guy here for a decade, basically.

[Trey Kirby]

Somebody's got to convince him to take a little bit less somehow, because he's gonna get. Is he gonna go get that max elsewhere? I don't know.

[Jay Skeets]

Well, without an extension, Young could become an unrestricted free agent in 2026 off season, if the player option is declined. So it'd be a little bit down the road, but, yeah, I mean, that's a lot of money, Trey. This is like, all these organizations are gonna, like, obviously are gonna be staring these type of players and these contracts in the face. Right? Like, Trae Young's very, very good, but he's not top 10. He's not obviously top five. The guys that you're like, oh, yeah, Max extension. SGA, no problem. Them. It's these ones where you're like, oh, my God. Yeah, like, what do we do? Like, you're in a bit of a bind because they're very important. Like, in addition to being, like, selling merchandise, being so your face of your franchise, I mean, do helping you win games had some success in the postseason, but then it's like, this is a lot of money for a guy that we're not even convinced, yeah, can we build around this guy to actually compete? It's these scary contracts here that a lot of these teams, not just the Hawks, have to face.

[Trey Kirby]

Yes, it does stink. It stinks for the Hawks in that they weren't healthy this year either. They could have been more than a 41 win team if Jalen Johnson is playing because Trey Young has worked incredibly well with Jalen Johnson to try and show what Jalen Johnson can do on the floor. Jalen Johnson could have been an all star this year if he wasn't hurt. Then it's a totally different team, it feels like. And trade Young made more sacrifices this year than he has in his entire career, playing off the ball, setting off ball screens more than he has his entire career. So I think he may want maybe, okay, I should say, maybe not want to take a discount. Maybe you'd think, yes, he'd want to get the max money and maybe somebody, maybe he wants to go somewhere where he can win. And being that there's only two years left and he's going to be playing if healthy with Dyson Daniels beside him, Zachary reese sachet at 20 years old next year. Jalen Johnson, hopefully, you know, it looks good on paper in an Eastern Conference that there's some room for growth.

[Tas Melas]

It looks like a possible playoff team on paper, Yeah. I mean, a conference finals run I think seems kind of out of the realm of possibility unless things break right the way they did in 2021 for that sort of team. So my guess is no extension for Trae Young. Maybe they do it in 2026. But I think we'll be talking Trae Young trade rumors come next February.

[Jay Skeets]

Final piece of news here, ESPN with the headline Cavaliers Darius Garland has toe surgery out four to five months.

[Trey Kirby]

Toe?

[Jay Skeets]

Yeah, that toe that he got banged up I guess at the end of March, missed a couple regular season games. Then it got re aggravated in the playoffs. He did miss what, four playoff games, I think total looked pretty hampered. But he's getting the surgery. They say he'll make a full recovery. He'll resume back basketball activities by the start of training camp in October. Shams did say he's likely to miss the start of the regular season, but this is a guy whose name's also coming up in a lot of trade rumors. In fact, I saw the Sacramento Kings graphic showing me Trae Young in a king's jersey and Darius Garland in the king's jersey. They want a point guard. How ironic is that? They used to have two really good ones, but they're both gone. Anyway. Garland, is this news at all to you, the surgery?

[Trey Kirby]

I would say it's news in that the Cavs aren't going to trade him during this injury, and I think this just indicates that they're going to try and go forward again with Garland and Mitchell in the backcourt. Now, it's probably news because if there is one name that's on the board to be traded in, Jared Allen, that increases the chances of him being dealt. That's why it makes it news for me. I think Garland's going to be there, going to give one more shot, but maybe they go with Mobley at 5 and try and downsize a little bit after flaming out once again, which was in part because of those injuries, as you said. But I think they do give it another shot with Garland and Mitchell.

[Jay Skeets]

Okay.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. Unfortunately, Garland has been banged up quite a bit during his career, even dating back to college. I think he played like five games in college, so it's kind of been a little bit of a run. Sucks for him, but at least it's early. Like, he'll probably miss the first month, month and a half of the season. Likely back up to speed around Christmas time, you know, once he's been back on the court and getting into the flow of things. So this might work out okay for the Cavs, because I think you're right. It makes it pretty tricky to trade him this summer. Who's going to trade it for a guy who has been hurt and is currently coming off a surgery? So it probably means Garland is sticking in Cleveland. And if Garland's sticking in Cleveland, I'm with you. Maybe Jared Allen becomes more tradable, but they probably bring him back. You've got the injury to Jayson Tatum. The Cavs already had the best record in the Eastern Conference this past season. If you think that things are going to be down in the east, it makes sense to just run your team back and try and beef up things around the outside. You know, that was Max Struz two summers ago. Maybe they can do something a little bit bigger than Max Strus, but I think we're going to see basically the same Cavs team, and they just have to hope that their guys are healthy when it comes playoff time, because that hasn't been the case the past two years. Garland only played five playoff games this year. Mobley was banged up the previous season. Jared Allen went out with like a punctured lung or something like that. They had guys get banged up in the playoffs, which is part of the reason They've been underwhelming, but they have been underwhelming. It's just a question of how good can the Cavs be when they've got two small guards on the defensive end. They're a great defensive team in the regular season. They get beat up a little bit in the playoffs, it feels like, with physicality. So I think that's an area of growth for Mobley and for Allen. But I assume the Cavs will run back their current team and be really good in the regular season, at least next season.

[Jay Skeets]

And what does this mean for Ty Jerome and possibility? I mean, we talked a lot about who he might be. The guy gets squeezed here because of all the money they have sort of top heavy to their talented players. But now is there like, oh, we sort of really lean into trying to keep him on this roster because maybe it does take Darius Garland a little while to get back into game shape, even though you're expecting him back around October. But you can slow play that and maybe lean towards him as your backup point guard. But sliding in there for starter minutes. Possibility.

[Trey Kirby]

But they have so much money dedicated elsewhere. They have 218 million next year. They're the number two team in terms of money locked in. Boston is number one. But after this offseason, Evan Mobley's new contract kicks in at 46 per. They've got money tied into everywhere. DeAndre Hunter, Max Truce being those guys that, you know, maybe they're tradable and you can add Ty Jerome instead. But I think you're probably going to see the same Cavs team go into next season. Unless the Allen deal is the one that they move on from. But then they will miss his defense incredibly.

[Jay Skeets]

All right, so those are your headlines. Let's hear from you guys, newsworthy or not, when it comes to the ratings and the coaching vacancy with the New York Knicks and Garland's injury and so on. Let's get to the prime moment of the week.

[Tas Melas]

We haven't seen Victor Wembanyama on a basketball court since the All Star Game, but we have seen him on the Internet first in that picture with all of the other spurs rookies of the year, where it looked like suddenly he's eight feet tall. And then June kicked in and Wemby was suddenly everywhere. Apparently he challenged a San Antonio teen by the name of Miller Baruschko to a game of Horse just because he saw him shooting around. So Wendy wanted to get a game in. Apparently Wemby won this game with a lefty three pointer, though Miller was able to get an H and an O on.

[Jay Skeets]

So Wemby wasn't dunking, we can assume.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah, exactly. I think the guy said that Miller said that. He's like, he wasn't just dunking. He could have easily beaten me if he just went for that. But I guess the lefty three did it. We've seen that kind of thing before. A player going against a kid.

[Jay Skeets]

Yep.

[Tas Melas]

A local kid. Very cool. But we have maybe not seen something like this. Wemby in China spotted at a Shaolin temple with a shaved head.

[Jay Skeets]

Whoa.

[Tas Melas]

Apparently part of a 10 day trip to China before he returns to San Antonio, where he'll be going with the spurs contingent to summer league. Everybody was saying there has never been a monk this tall at all. I don't know if this is. I don't know what room this is in, but you can see him towering over literally Everybody by about 2x their height. I would say this looks amazing. But yeah, Wemby is getting his body right. He's getting his mind right. And the question I'm left after seeing this, does he listen to the Wu Tang Clan? Because we've seen him in New York playing chess. There is a Wu Tang song about playing chess.

[Jay Skeets]

Wow. Yes.

[Tas Melas]

They call themselves the Shaolin Monks. Basically enter the 36 chambers. Now, clearly, Wu Tang Clan came way before Wemby's time. Yeah, but you could see him wearing one of those hockey jerseys with the W, the Woo wear. That would look awesome on him. So that's what I need somebody to follow up on. Is this guy a Wu Tang Clan fan? And who's his favorite? Probably rza.

[Jay Skeets]

Probably. Good stuff. The prime moment of the week is presented by Amazon Prime. From streaming to shopping, it's on Prime. Visit Amazon.comprime to get more out of whatever you're into. Maybe it's the Wu Tang Clan as we saw there from Wemby. He looks. I mean, I was like, oh, God, he's better already just shaving his head. I was like, oh, boy, it's over. I don't know. I had this reaction to it. I was like, yeah. Oh, no. Tim Duncan went bald at one point. Or he went with the shaved head. Yeah, he leveled up from what I remember. And it was obviously earlier on when he was younger. So scary. For the rest of the league.

[Trey Kirby]

Yes, I agree. There's no doubt he's mentally ready. He's locked in. Absolutely. My question, Trey being in or seeing his shaved head, are you inspired to shave that head? Even more so this summer? Because you talked about it as a possibility.

[Jay Skeets]

You want to go full monk?

[Tas Melas]

I went and got my hair cut this week and as you can see, I didn't pull the trigger. I kept my hair a little bit long.

[Trey Kirby]

Still early.

[Tas Melas]

Yeah. Honestly, I told my, my barber. I was like, I'm conflicted. Should I get it short for the summer or should I keep it a little long on both sides? He's like, let's split the difference. So, you know, he trimmed me down pretty, pretty tight on the sides. I got home and my kids were like, dad, I can see your head through your hair.

[Jay Skeets]

Oh.

[Tas Melas]

So I don't know, maybe it'll be.

[Jay Skeets]

A big fan, I guess. All right. Yeah. Good stuff. We'll call it. There we are. Back tomorrow morning here from the Classic Factory to talk about Game 3 of the NBA Finals. Hopefully you'll join us live at 10am Eastern. If you don't catch it on YouTube later or listen to the podcast, hit the like button. If you're here on YouTube, subscribe podcast listeners, five star ratings and reviews. Hopefully we get a really entertaining game three to really dissect tomorrow. Till then, Clover Rose, you heard it here first.

[Tas Melas]

Have a great time. Turn up. Love you guys. Awesome.

[Trey Kirby]

Thanks for joining us. And remember, the Orlando Magic have new jerseys next year. We talked about it last week and the Orlando Magic came and commented on our video and said, get those gift cards ready. You're seeing their comment here on YouTube because we talked about getting them with our own gift cards. So we'll get them ready after you send them to us. Orlando Magic, let's go.

[Jay Skeets]

At least discount code.

[Trey Kirby]

If anyone upped the sales of Orlando Magic jerseys, it was us. I don't know how to count views.

[Jay Skeets]

On NBA 1 billion in sales.

[Trey Kirby]

We helped them out.

[Jay Skeets]

Brace the day people.

[Cam Jordan]

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