Jalen Williams Is Scottie Pippen, Hali's Calf Injury, OKC Wins Pivotal Game 5

Summary

Podcast Summary: No Dunks - Episode: Jalen Williams Is Scottie Pippen, Hali's Calf Injury, OKC Wins Pivotal Game 5

Release Date: June 17, 2025
Hosted By: Skeets, Tas, Trey, and JD
Platform: The Athletic via Acast

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Introduction

In this high-energy episode of No Dunks, the original basketball podcasters—Skeets, Tas, Trey, and JD—delve deep into the Oklahoma City Thunder's riveting performance in Game 5 of the NBA Finals. The hosts break down standout performances, pivotal moments, and critical injuries that could shape the outcome of the series.

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Game 5 Recap

OKC on the Verge of a Title

The Thunder clinched a crucial 120-109 victory against the Indiana Pacers, positioning themselves just one win away from the championship. Trey Kirby enthusiastically recaps Jalen Williams' career-high 40-point performance, highlighting his dominance in the paint and seamless transition play.

Trey Kirby [03:10]: "He’s got a lot of Scottie Pippen in his game. He’s got the size and the versatility on defense, but even offensively he plays a lot like Pippen does."

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Jalen Williams: The Modern Scottie Pippen

A significant portion of the discussion centers around Jalen Williams’ exceptional Game 5 performance, drawing striking comparisons to NBA legend Scottie Pippen. The hosts emphasize Williams' versatility, both offensively and defensively, positioning him as a pivotal figure for the Thunder's potential championship run.

Jay E. Skeets [06:24]: "He’s like his trademark now, which I’m loving. And then he just continued to attack too, and got a lot of free throws again, 9:12 at the free throw line. This guy’s just gotten better."

Tas Melis expands on Williams' role as a second star, akin to Pippen's role with Jordan, suggesting that such depth distinguishes great teams from good ones.

Tas Melis [08:31]: "Scary big three, there's no doubt. And you look at that 40-point box score and you say, well, he kind of just took it all on himself. But he was making beautiful cuts and just making the right play."

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Hali's Calf Injury and Its Impact

A pressing concern for the Pacers remains Tyrese Haliburton's calf injury. The injury limited his effectiveness in Game 5, contributing to the team's struggles. The hosts analyze the coaching decisions surrounding his playtime and the strategic implications for Game 6.

Jay E. Skeets [21:29]: "He’s got time to hopefully recover a little bit. Do you believe this is over on Thursday night?"

Tas and Trey discuss the potential scenarios, contemplating whether Haliburton should rest for Game 6 to prevent further injury.

Tas Melis [22:21]: "I thought Halliburton had missed some opportunities to get a little bit more aggressive... I'm glad that it is below the knee because after Game 2, I thought that's below the knee."

Trey adds: "They need more from him. Even if he’s banged up, which clearly he is." [16:20]

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Defense: The Thunder's Secret Weapon

Central to OKC's victory was their elite defensive strategy, particularly the performance of Chet Holmgren. The hosts dissect how Holmgren’s length and defensive prowess stifled the Pacers’ offense, forcing turnovers and limiting second-chance points.

Tas Melis [28:32]: "Chet was monstrous and I know he's been awesome in back-to-back games."

They highlight specific defensive plays that tilted the game in Thunder's favor, emphasizing the importance of maintaining defensive intensity throughout the game.

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Coaching Decisions and Turnover Management

A critical analysis of the Pacers' coaching decisions, especially Rick Carlisle’s choices regarding player substitutions and rotations, features prominently. The discussion includes the decision to rest key players and how turnovers were handled under pressure.

Trey Kirby [16:54]: "And in the first quarter, I just thought they were done. But this Pacers team never dies."

The hosts debate whether Gregory's substitutions and handling of fatigued players hampered the Pacers' chances, ultimately leading to their defeat despite a late surge.

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Player Performances Beyond the Stars

While Jalen Williams and Haliburton were focal points, the hosts also commend the contributions of role players like T.J. McConnell and Case Wallace, whose efforts were instrumental in sustaining the Thunder’s momentum.

Tas Melis [09:07]: "He had one on both, I think Nemhard and Halliburton. So he was pretty damn good too. An MVP performance from him."

They acknowledge the collective effort, noting how synchronized team play can overshadow individual accolades.

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Random Notes and Highlights

The episode transitions into lighter topics, including memorable game highlights, player introductions, and amusing anecdotes. The hosts share their reactions to specific plays, such as Nick Anderson’s technical foul and a surprising putback dunk by N. Smith.

Jay E. Skeets [35:55]: "Nobody knew he dunked it. Breen didn’t know he dunked it. Burke had to point it out."

Additionally, they touch upon the halftime entertainment featuring Red Panda, celebrating her impressive performance that captivated the audience.

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Looking Ahead to Game 6

As the series moves to Indianapolis, the hosts express cautious optimism about OKC’s chances. They discuss potential adjustments the Pacers might make to counter the Thunder’s strategies and speculate on whether the series could extend to a decisive Game 7.

Trey Kirby [29:45]: "They need him to really key their attack and to be aggressive, looking to score. And he's got a guy who could have won Defensive Player of the Year all over him while dealing with a leg injury."

Conclusion

No Dunks wraps up with a forward-looking perspective, encouraging listeners to tune into the forthcoming live show where they will rank past NBA Finals and prepare for the critical Game 6. The hosts maintain their signature blend of in-depth analysis and relatable banter, ensuring fans are well-prepared for the final stretch of the series.

Jay E. Skeets [61:03]: "Join us at 10am Eastern. We'll get into a whole bunch of debates about how good said NBA Finals were."

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Notable Quotes

• Trey Kirby [03:10]: "He’s got a lot of Scottie Pippen in his game. He’s got the size and the versatility on defense, but even offensively he plays a lot like Pippen does."

• Jay E. Skeets [06:24]: "He’s like his trademark now, which I’m loving. And then he just continued to attack too, and got a lot of free throws again, 9:12 at the free throw line. This guy’s just gotten better."

• Tas Melis [08:31]: "Scary big three, there's no doubt. And you look at that 40-point box score and you say, well, he kind of just took it all on himself. But he was making beautiful cuts and just making the right play."

• Jay E. Skeets [21:29]: "He’s got time to hopefully recover a little bit. Do you believe this is over on Thursday night?"

• Trey Kirby [16:54]: "They need more from him. Even if he’s banged up, which clearly he is."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of No Dunks provides a comprehensive and engaging analysis of Game 5, spotlighting Jalen Williams’ extraordinary performance and the strategic challenges faced by the Pacers. With insightful commentary and memorable quotes, Skeets, Tas, Trey, and JD deliver a podcast episode that is both informative and entertaining, ensuring fans are thoroughly briefed and excited for the upcoming Game 6.

Transcript

[Jay E. Skeets]

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[Trey Kirby]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.

[Tas Melis]

Over.

[Jay E. Skeets]

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[Trey Kirby]

Instead of telling your team that you're.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Going to circle back, try saying let's sauce these nugs later. Good morning, sweet world, and welcome to the no Dunks podcast on the Athletic Network. It's Tuesday, June 17, 2025. I'm Jay E. Skeets here in the Classic Factory and alongside me, as always, Tas Melis.

[Tas Melis]

Fans of the best game in the world. This is for you.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Next to him, it's the bearded one. My top shot, hot boy Trey Kirby Ayo. Hey yo. And over yonder, making the magic happen. Super producer JD Hello. There he is. Here we are. Hello to everybody on YouTube. Take a second. Hit the like button. Subscribe share the show as well. Podcast listeners, five star ratings and reviews. We'll play a little true or false later in today's pod, but we start with the Game 5 recap. The Thunder, one win away from a title led by Jalen Williams. Career playoff high 40 points. OKC earned the 120 to 109 win against the Pacers in game five, OKC has a 32 lead here in the series. We go back to Indianapolis for Game 6 later in the week on Thursday. And this is the first time, Trey, that the Pacers have lost back to back games in these playoffs. But they made it a game. They got back into it. But where do you want to start from? OKC taking game 5.

[Trey Kirby]

How can we not start with J Dub? 40 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists and a steal. I think they showed the graphic of his makes in the first half at halftime and it was like the cool animated graphic where you see all the shots he made. And that's why I was like, wait a second, all of these have been layups or dunks. It felt like he was in the paint all night. Turns out he went 9 of 16 at the rim and he really got started with back cuts, running in transition. Hartenstein was finding him for a couple of cuts from the slot when the Pacers just kind of lost track of him. Tough game. I think for Aaron Nesmith in this one. He's on the receiving end of a lot of these highlights, but J Dub was just special in this game after he was able to get kind of unleashed playing in transition. That's when he got into the dribble drive game. That's when he got into the step back jumper game. Had that beautiful twisting one over N. Smith again. Just an incredible pretty performance by this guy to really bring it when the Thunder needed it. He's got a lot of Scotty Pippen in his game. He's got the size and the versatility on defense, but I think even offensively he plays a lot like Pippen does, running in transition. He's kind of been the point guard for the Thunder the past couple of games here, getting to the rim and finishing. I'm including his high off the glass layup as a Scotty Pippen move back. When I was young and small, everybody in the playground, everybody in the driveway would work on shooting. Scottie Pippen layups higher than the glass or like higher than the square on the glass. You saw that from J Dub last night in the fourth quarter. So I'm hoping Andrew Schleck's kids are out in the driveway today shooting high, arcing layups like Jalen Williams, like Scottie Pippen. This was a great performance by the Thunder. Like you're saying, the Pacers really got back into it in the fourth quarter. Siakam hit that three. It's a two point game and that was the TSN turning point. A Three Porter for J Dub and then a tough turnover for Andrew Nemhard, which turned into a case in Wallace dunk on the other side that really unleashed the thunderstorm. Four straight turnovers on four straight possessions for the Pacers. And the thunder slammed the door shut. And now they're on the verge of a championship.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah, it was hilarious hearing Jalen Williams asked after the game, hey, you guys were within two points there in the fourth quarter. He just kind of gave a face like what it was. Two point game. It didn't feel that way, I guess, until those four turnovers, like you said, Trey. But he got them there. They were all slashes or just sprints in that first half. That's all they were. And three of them of his, three of his first four baskets were from Isaiah Hartenstein. You know, a stationary Isaiah Hartenstein. Where's the basket going to come from? Well, a hustling Jalen Williams just cutting. I mean, the first one, it was a fast break from Shea, then three consecutive from Hartenstein. Then another sprint on a fast break from Caruso. Then hanging out at the three point line, Lou Dort making a nice drive, set him up for a three ball. So those first half baskets all assisted, all six of his baskets. And then the first two of the second half were all assisted as well. So eight straight baskets to start this game. Assists. And then the driving started and the high bankers, the first, the, the, you know, they're off the wrong leg. The left leg with his left hand. He did it from the right side as well. A beautiful game from him. You called it before the series. Skeets, is a 30 point game coming? You thought it was coming. Did you know a 40 point game?

[Jay E. Skeets]

No, I don't think I would have bet on that one. I felt confident about him eclipsing 30 at least once. But yeah, for him to go to the 40 and like you guys just went through, he scored in every way imaginable. Everything. The backdoor cuts, transition. He had the tough jumpers there in the second half. One on both sides going off the glass. He had that pretty fade away at the nail. That was a big one. Hit his threes, these silky scoop shots, these pippin like shots like you said, TK that's like his trademark now, which I'm loving. And then he just continued to attack too, and got a lot of free throws again, 9:12 at the free throw line. This guy's just gotten better. As the entire finals has gone on, every single game, he's added a little bit more in terms of the scoring punch, the playmaking, obviously the confidence. Now the three starting to show up. It's like, it's very difficult. This guy is already probably coming into the finals or into the playoffs, considered one of the best second guys in the NBA. Despite only being in his third year, he's already an all star all. Already in all NBA. But you just see like that second banana, second guy, second star, whatever we call them, it does truly separate, like the good teams from the great ones, right? Because even if you look back at the last couple championships, it's like, okay, Jalen Brown was that guy for Tatum, ended up winning finals mvp, for crying out loud. Jamal Murray with Jokic, anytime Murray played like that second star, they looked unbeatable. And then even like Andrew Wiggins was like awesome in the Curry run. So you just look at the last three and then you, of course, you go back in history and you're talking pippin to, you know, Jordan. Like, that's what Shea is in this. So just what a game. This guy was awesome. And he's only getting better and better. This is. I'm sorry, I know I'm getting ahead of myself. They still got to win one more, but this big three, because I know. We'll talk about Chad Holmgren too. Like, good luck with this because, like, maybe Shay. I'm trying to think of it like, okay, is she at. I don't know, what's she out of the 100 of the peak of his game? He's like in his prime here now. Is he almost maxed out? Can he get another level? I don't know. Playmaking has gotten better and all that. But look, he's like there. He's at the elite level. He's an mvp, for crying out loud. But what about J Dub and what about Chet? And I'm like, oh, they could both get better. Chet more than, I think, J Dub even. But there's still, there's still room for improvement is my whole point.

[Tas Melis]

Scary big three, there's no doubt. And you look at that 40 point box score and you say, well, he kind of just took it all on himself. But he was making beautiful cuts and just making the right thing, the right play. The whole first half again, every single one of his buckets assisted. His first eight buckets assisted. But then the skill set came over and he was doing great things and he was the, you know, the primary ball handler again to get Shea off the ball. And that was so smart for Dagnal. And it just preserved Shay for. As the game went on. But when Shay saw his opportunities and fast breaks or, you know, when the Pacers were scrambling a little bit, he took it every single time. So the dry guy dropped 30 points.

[Jay E. Skeets]

You know, well, she had 31 points, 10 assists. He blocked four shots and then had a pair of steals that were a part of that massive fourth quarter run. The Thunderclap there. He got one on both, I think Nemhardt and Halliburton. So he was. Yeah, he was pretty damn good too. An MVP performance from him. But he had Pippen, you know, out playing. That happened from time to time in finals or playoff games. Not all that often. But I was reminded of Game 5 of the 91 NBA Finals when they closed out the Lakers. Pippen had a monster game 5, a bit better than Jordan, arguably in that one. Of course MJ got the MVP and just like Shay will. But Pippin in that one went for like 32, 13 and 7. Bunch of defensive plays. Yeah, like seriously. And that's what J Dub did. I think the comparisons are apt. I'm sorry, I know they don't have a title yet, but those two guys, their demeanor even to some extent, that's. It's pretty scary for the rest of the league.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. Except for the Bulls were beloved. Just saying. I did like Richard Jefferson comparing J Dub and Shea last night to LeBron and Kyrie as well when they both had 41 in a must win game. I thought it was pretty cool to see the change. Up in the fourth quarter, it was J Dub as the ball handler for the majority of the first three and a half quarters. But down the stretch, dagnaut, flip things we saw in game four, it was Shea setting screens for Jalen Williams to try and get Neesmith to switch so that Shea could attack him. On this one, it was J Dub setting screens for sga and then when they would try to help, Shay would kick it over to Jalen Williams. Things are a little bit scrambled for the Pacers. He's able to get downhill. That was just pretty smart. Cause surely Indiana knew, okay, we can't play the same way if they go for the two man game with J Dub handling. So let's flip it and let Shay get downhill, let him make plays. 10 assist was really big. And then like you're saying, the defensive playmaking as well was key for this team. The game was won on the defensive end for the Thunder. I mean, incredible performances, no doubt from JDub and SGA. But 23 turnovers for Indiana and OKC this time was able to turn that into 32 points. Unlike game one, when it was like 20 turnovers in the first half and somehow only 10 points off of turnovers. The transition game was lethal for OKC in game five.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, I was reminded, sorry, of game one where like you just said, all the turnovers in that one. It felt like that was the one out of a thousand simulations where you give The Pacers have 20 plus turnovers and somehow they win the game. Like they pull it off with the Halliburton jumper at the end. This was one of the other 999 simulations where it's like, okay, you're going to turn it over that many times against this good Thunder team, that's usually going to be the outcome. Again, they fought like hell. We can get into the whole Halliburton injury and McConnell and maybe Carlisle should have stuck with him or brought him back in more. But that to me was like, oh, yeah, that's sort of how game one probably should have gone. And it didn't, miraculously, because of the dark arts from the Pacers. But yeah, that wasn't the problem here with all those turnovers, all those easy baskets that they were scoring in transition.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah, watching this first quarter, I thought there's. There's no chance the Pacers are winning this game. The way they were turning over, the way they were a little slow to get out to three point shooters, the way they were allowing offensive rebounds to happen. Four offensive rebounds for the Thunder in the first quarter. And then you see the scores of game one at half and game five here at half. Game one, it was 57, 45 for the Thunder. They let her go in game five. It was 59, 45. It was super close. But. But even though we got TJ McConnell scoring six baskets in the third quarter himself, and Pascal Siakam, after a slow start, having that fourth quarter where he had five baskets himself. In the fourth quarter, they got so close, it was again within two. But then those turnovers happened and, and it was over. And then you see guys like you got the Lou Dork game.

[Trey Kirby]

You.

[Tas Melis]

He had one point in the fourth quarters combined of the four games. And he splashed two threes in the fourth quarter. In this one. You got the Case and Wallace game.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I mean, he didn't finally hitting three.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah, he didn't have a three this entire series. He had three in the first half. He had 11 points and four steals. One of those turnovers was an awesome steal from Case, who was performing. Aaron Wiggins came off the bench to do that as well. Isaiah Hartenstein, I mean say Hartenstein had a highlight that wasn't like he had three beautiful passes to Jalen Williams for baskets. Then he had a no look to Aaron Wiggins, but Aaron Wiggins dropped the ball, so it's not going in the high.

[Jay E. Skeets]

He also had a rebound highlight. Which one was, I thought Hartenstein's one handed rebound.

[Trey Kirby]

He got pretty late.

[Jay E. Skeets]

He was like getting held. His one arm was behind his back.

[Trey Kirby]

The dosy Doe.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, I still got it. You know, we love a rebound highlight here.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. And then they called the foul on whoever was holding him, I guess Tony Bradley, but Bradley let him go before Hartenstein shot it. Anyways. Confusing. All confusing, but everybody contributing. Oh, gosh. Yeah. The defense was what won it. But we're all going to talk about Jalen Williams. But I, I thought Degnut was ready even for Tyrese Halberton to allow switches to happen just to have somebody in front of him at all times. And that's a little risky because he might have a big in front of him. He did. Or. Or another guard, but they just were able to get there. This was their best defensive game. They were just scrambling so hard, even when they had to switch, even when bigs were on them, they stayed in front of Halliburton.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Let. Let's talk about Halliburton. Obviously a bad game. Four points, seven boards, six assists, three turnovers. He played 34 minutes. He missed all six of his field goal attempts. Now he insisted by all accounts on playing in the second half after injuring or re. Injuring, if you want to say that. Even that sore right calf, they were showing us that clip that appeared to be the one where he really did hurt it again, sort of pushing off as he went down. Yeah, but he was limited. So then TJ McConnell stepped up in the third quarter, 13 of his 18 points. Just like getting into the paint time after time after time for that little jumper that he gets or get or kicking it out to guys. But then interesting decision, I thought Trey from Carlisle, where early in the fourth quarter McConnell had just created a three for Siakam. But on the following possession, I think McConnell traveled. He got caught. Violation was shuffling the feet inside. And it was soon after that, or maybe right after that Carlisle sort of took him out and he said, I thought he was just gas, he was fatigued. But now you sit and we play, you know, Tuesday morning quarterbacking here. Should he have maybe run with a fatigued McConnell over an injured Halliburton and does he regret that decision here this morning?

[Trey Kirby]

I don't know. It's interesting that you say he should have gone in for Halliburton because I'm like, maybe he should have gone in for Nembert. That's kind of the tough thing. It's like, who does TJ McConnell sub in for? He did carry the team in the third quarter. I don't think there's another player in the league who shoots fadeaways from less than 10ft, but that's TJ McConnell. That was awesome to see. The spin move was beautiful. But Nemhard didn't play A great game. 7 points on 3 of 8 shooting. Had more turnovers than assists. Obviously Halliburton was hampered. Plus the Thunder defense was all over him. So you added up together, he wasn't even able to get a shot up. I don't know. I mean, Ma wasn't doing anything in the fourth quarter either. He got a little bit of a look. So I know they want Nemhardt out there for defense. He wasn't really doing much defensively. They want Halliburton out there for offense. He wasn't doing anything offensively. So what are you. Who are you pulling there is kind of the thing. TJ had it going, though. He should have at least gotten a little bit more of a run I think in the fourth quarter just cause he's given the Thunder problems. He can get in the lane at the very least.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, I think he checked out like at the 10:50 mark in the fourth and didn't. We didn't see TJ McConnell again till like three and a half, you know, 3:25 left in the game. So there was a chunk of time there where he was. I guess he was like, hey tj you go balls to the walls when you're out there. Rest up, man. We're going to need. But maybe did keep him too long. That's a good point about him maybe playing over Nemhard, who. Yeah, that was really bad. Andrew Nemhard game. Like some of those turnovers now, that's like the pressure is getting to these guys. I mean, they're panicking and there's no passing lanes and that. Then it looks like they're just throwing it away. But that's. I mean, that's just this. An electric defense just up out on them.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. And some guys were able to recover after those turnovers. Like Pascal had three in the first quarter. Maybe one was from an Isaiah Hartenstein yank of his back. Who knows? It's hard to tell. He had six turnovers overall. But that fourth Quarter of his was what brought the Pacers back to really get close. So some guys recovered after a terrible turnover game. It is, it is a. I couldn't believe that there's 22 turnovers. Like, I know that they kept on turning it over, but to see 22 and still be close.

[Jay E. Skeets]

It was a two point game.

[Tas Melis]

I mean, it really was.

[Jay E. Skeets]

It was impossible not to be watching it going, oh my God. How, How? They've been completely outplayed in this game and they've got it to two. Yeah, here they go again.

[Tas Melis]

And some shots are just like Obi Toppin. They keep relying on him. He keeps on performing. But he had some rattlers in this one. 105 from 3 that just rattled in and out a couple of them. And the Benedict Matheran obviously didn't perform in this one either. 2 of 11.

[Trey Kirby]

Nick Anderson.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah, he had the one good game.

[Trey Kirby]

Well, also, Nick Anderson missed a whole bunch of free throws at the end of the game and kind of his career was over after that. No, I'm not saying it's gonna happen to Ben, but he missed a ton of free throws at the end of game four and looked like it was affecting him in game five.

[Jay E. Skeets]

The only thing I'll say for game five for him at least, he was attacking the glass and he was, you know, helping them out there. I thought at one point in this game they're rebounding. Yeah, the rebounding was keeping him alive.

[Trey Kirby]

Yep.

[Jay E. Skeets]

That like for that one stretch where it was getting out of hand, but they were just getting more possessions and that was. I mean they were turning it over a lot, unfortunately, but that was helping him. So he at least contributed there. But yeah, I mean really, like Besides Siakam and TJ McConnell, tell me who played well, who had a good game for the Pacers? I mean, it wasn't, it wasn't Hella Burton.

[Trey Kirby]

Obi's probably like the third best.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it wasn't even lights out.

[Tas Melis]

So yeah, we'll get to niece miss, put back dunk soon. I mean he contributed as much as he could. But the offensive rebounds you mentioned, that was really important that to just get them back to just keep that fighting going. Because again that first quarter I just thought they were. They were done. But this Pacers team never dies. 18 offensive rebounds for them and they.

[Trey Kirby]

Got huge number out. Offensive rebounded is the problem. 19 for the Thunder. Like that's where Hartenstein was massive. Chet was pretty big as well. Like Lou Dort was scrapping it out, getting his offensive rebounds so winning the turnover battle and then barely winning the offensive rebounding battle, like that's a perfect recipe for the thunder. Especially if you're going to hit your threes playing at home. Yeah, I'm not trying to brag, but I just got a daybed for my porch and I can already tell my outside space game has been changed. Sitting, snoozing. I'm doing it all and I'm doing it outside. Because when the weather turns nice, a brave man likes to feel nature on his face. Wayfarer's got everything you need to level up your outdoor space. They have patio sets and lounge chairs, outdoor bars and hot tubs, fire pits, gazebos, and of course daybeds. No matter your decor style, Wayfair is an easy one stop shop where you can get a resort feel without a resort price tag. You want a gazebo? Wayfair's got it. You want some Adirondack chairs? Wayfair's got em. From pergolas to planters, Wayfair's huge selection of outdoor items makes it easy to find exactly what's right for you. Wayfair makes it easy to tackle your summer home goals with endless inspiration for every space and budget. Plus you get free and easy delivery. Even on the big stuff. Wayfair will literally ship you a hot tub or a trampoline for free. That's crazy. Don't wait. Make your outdoor space your dream oasis today with Wayfair and enjoy it all summer long. Head to Wayfair.com right now to shop a huge outdoor selection. That's W A Y F A I R.com Wayfair Every style, every Home.

[Tas Melis]

When.

[Jay E. Skeets]

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[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, and what did you think about Halliburton? Because the whole talk at halftime like from obviously the ESPN crew or ABC crew was like what do they do here with them? Do you just sit them down and rest up for game six? And obviously we did see TJ McConnell a little earlier than normal in the third quarter. Then that was incredible. Looked like a brilliant move from Kyle Elle, but then he went away from him. Like, what was your opinion on that and the injury and where they go from here?

[Tas Melis]

Yeah, I thought Halliburton had missed some opportunities to get a little bit more aggressive. Like midway through the third, Lou Dort was out on him. I mean, in a lot of space. I mean, that was the opportunity to go left, right. There was nobody setting a screen. You have opportunity to do it. And they just passed to Mather and said, go at Aaron Wiggins. Again, just pointed. That's. That's who you go for. So he could have been more aggressive. I have no idea what's going on with the calf. I'm glad that it is below the knee because after game two, I. When they said it's lower leg, I thought that's. That's below the knee.

[Jay E. Skeets]

You're right.

[Tas Melis]

I couldn't. I couldn't settle on. I'm not a doctor, but it's great to see that. I. As far as the halftime conversation goes from espn, I like Malika Andrews the best. Stephen A. Smith said he's got to sit and rest Game six. And she said, this is game five, the NBA Finals. I don't think he's sitting Stephen A. Smith, full name.

[Trey Kirby]

He's got to rest Game six for game six.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

He was saying he needs to rest for the half of game five for game six.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. Yeah. That makes no sense.

[Trey Kirby]

Come on, bro.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I mean, Halliburton, after the game, says basically what she was saying. It's the finals. I've worked my whole life to be here, and I want to be out there to compete, help my teammates any way I can. I was not great tonight by any means. I. But it's not really a thought of mine to not play here. If I can walk, then I want to play. I mean, this is. This is what Halliburton said. End quote on that. Now. Now people say, well, yeah, of course, all players, all competitive guys are going to say that. It's up to the coaching and the medical staff. And maybe you do save him from himself. There was worry that he could re. Injure it, make it worse. I mean, we saw that once upon a time with Kevin Durant back in the day. So there was that concern. I thought when he was out there, though.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

It wasn't like, oh, glaring that he was, like, dragging his leg around. I also think the guy's just in the deutsche chamber right now, and that sucks. And then now you have an injury on top of that. Good luck, because Dort has shut down every guy here in this postseason. Desmond Bain, who just got traded. Go check his stats in round one. He did Dick all against Dort. Door had a good series against Jamal, good series against Anthony Edwards, and he's having a great series against Halliburton. But hopefully having. What do we got here? Like, I don't know. It's like under 60 hours, I guess, until game six, that he can rest up a bit, Trey, and. And give it a little bit more of a go in that game.

[Trey Kirby]

They need more from him. Even if he's banged up, which clearly he is. It looked like he was able to run forward fast. Like, when he could get ahead of steam, he was running fine. But maybe the change of direction and the burst, like going from standing still to going by somebody that certainly wasn't there. It felt like Haliburton was just doing line dancing side to side the entire time in the second half. And I thought that was kind of the problem for the Pacers. Nobody was able to get the ball inside. A lot of it is Dort, but a lot of it is like, the mental game of it as well. Right. Like, Halliburton wants to pass. He knows he's got Door all over him. He's got his leg bothering him. There's a lot going on. So there are shots certainly that he could take, that he could force up if he wanted to, but that's not how he plays. He's got his mind concerned with other things, just trying to get through the game. He looked like he was processing too much rather than just playing.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melis]

And they were obviously doing a great job again of switching, staying in front of him and just being the great Thunder defense that they are and forcing him to pass it on the other side. Isaiah Hartenstein sat after 51 seconds in the second half. Even though he was awesome the first half, he obviously had some sort of thing going on with his lower leg, too. How low it was, I couldn't tell you as a non doctor, but he bumped into who bumped into him in the first half. And he went back to the locker room. Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

When was that? Was it Siakam? I don't think. Yeah, Must have been Turner.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah, I think. I think it was Turner. And, you know, he was sagging. He obviously he came back and played a little bit in the. In the Second half, everybody's banged up. So as you said when he was out there, Halliburton, I'm talking about again.

[Jay E. Skeets]

He looked all right.

[Tas Melis]

He didn't look. He didn't look like he was limping.

[Trey Kirby]

I thought sometimes he was limping. But in general there. He could have taken more than one shot in the second half. If he's going to play the most minutes of anybody in the second half.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah. And I think that's, again, to go back to. Like, if he's only going to take one shot in the second half, then maybe you do have to. The coaching decision is maybe we go to the guy that is, like, brought us back in this game and we lean on him more, and it's just one of these funky games. We try and pull out again, and it's not our star. But that's a tough decision. It's. I mean, it's your. It is your star guy. It's your all star. He says he wants to go. I think that does send a bit of a message to the rest of the team, too. Like, this guy is fighting through this and let's go.

[Trey Kirby]

And he's hitting big shots in the fourth quarter.

[Jay E. Skeets]

The entire playoff.

[Trey Kirby]

We're pulling you now.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Right, Right. But, you know, this stat is. It's a telling stat, at least here in the postseason. Pacers now 6 and 7. When Halliburton scores 20 or fewer points, they're perfect. When he scores 20 or more, they're 8. No. So I guess that's a stat to watch in. In game six if we have the potential of a game seven.

[Tas Melis]

And I thought the Pacers were finally going to lose a game where they scored 110 points because they've won. And they've won every single game. They've won every single game. Yeah, they got to 109 when Johnny Furfee hit a basket and. And one. He went to the free throw line. I made a note. Oh, they lost when they scored 110. But he missed the free throw. So only 109. Tough. Tough one for.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Was there one of the particular live ball turnovers during that thunder clap that jumped out to you the most? TK because it was Halliburton and Nemhard with the sloppy play or again, the great defense. But was there one more than the other? You were like, ooh, okay.

[Trey Kirby]

I thought the killer was before the real thunderstorm started was when it was a Nemhard turnover. He's trying to get the ball back to Halliburton. He just throws, basically. An outlet pass for Case and Wallace. It was like that was a couple of possessions after Siakam had hit the three. So it went from a two point game to suddenly a seven point game with all the momentum now on the side of okc. But my favorite one was going to be one of my random notes. It's when Caruso gets the steal at half court. Somehow Siakam is ahead of him and he swims on the court to grab the loose ball and it ends up being a layup for the Thunder.

[Jay E. Skeets]

That was an awesome.

[Trey Kirby]

That was crazy.

[Jay E. Skeets]

It sort of got overlooked because of all the other crap that was going. That steel was insane. He like slid so far. A good way to call it like a swim job to get to it. It was one thing for him to get the steal. But then you're like, okay, well they're not gonna get it.

[Trey Kirby]

No, Siakam has it and then he.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Gets the ball and they even have the possession. That was crazy. What a game. What a game. What a defense. They're just elite. They're just unreal. Like it's so funny. You even get by the maybe the first line of defense and then it's like you have to like, okay, now I got to go around Chet Holmgren and his long ass limbs like, like there was that one time where Halliburton finally got to the free throw line. The amount of work he had to put in to like just draw those free throws on Holmgren who was playing him. Well, obviously he's got a lot of length like that. You just had to put in so much effort just to even get to the line.

[Tas Melis]

Chet was monstrous and I know he's.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Been awesome in back to back games.

[Tas Melis]

Here he has been. He keeps on him and him and Miles going at. It has been a great matchup to watch. You know, three blocks in this game. How many altered shots as well. Just making sure that Indiana couldn't score inside and they couldn't, I mean they couldn't score in two point land. A lot of it. Chat, no doubt.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Any other basketball notes before we can get into some fun random notes? And we do have that, that knee Smith dunk that surprised everyone to show you in a second. But anything else from the game itself or looking ahead to game six? Well, let me ask you this. Do you have confidence this comes back for Game 7 in OKC or are they going to take care of business on the road?

[Trey Kirby]

It's hard to have a lot of confidence with Halliburton playing the way he did in game Five. And knowing that there's something wrong with this lower leg, at the very least. He's not 100%. They're saying nobody's 100%, but him being less than 100% is going to be a major problem for the Pacers. They need him to really key their attack and to be aggressive, looking to score. And he's got a guy who could have won defensive player of the year all over him while dealing with a leg injury. So that's tough to have a lot of confidence. But they're a bounce back team and he's a bounce back player. Usually when he has a stinker, he has a pretty good game following up. So ice up, man up.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah, he's got that wrap on his calf, so maybe it's more of a cramp than anything. I know it's hard to say, but I guess not.

[Trey Kirby]

It's not good. Whatever it is, it ain't good.

[Tas Melis]

No, it's not good.

[Jay E. Skeets]

He has time to hopefully recover a little bit. Do you believe this is over on Thursday night?

[Tas Melis]

I guess, I guess. I, I just. I won't say the Pacers are dead.

[Jay E. Skeets]

But I feel nobody wants to do that anymore. Like, everybody's like, okay, I've learned my lesson.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I don't want to say that you.

[Tas Melis]

Can'T say it against this Pacers team.

[Jay E. Skeets]

But like, you guys are pointing out, like, the scary part, like other series we've seen in the postseason is as it goes on, the Thunder do seem to get better and stronger and like click a little bit more like their offense definitely. Like, it was a little bit like the ball was moving, had a little more zip to us going side to side. They're obviously finding backdoor cuts. It just looked better. And have they like sort of unlocked something? Is a part of that? Been going through J Dub as the playmaker a little bit more? I think so. It, it's, it's. It's tough to think this doesn't wrap up on Thursday night just because I think they're getting stronger and stronger. But the Pacers have obviously surprised us time and time again here.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah, maybe one more in us. Maybe the role players who play really well at home, like your Casen Wallace and your Aaron Wiggins, don't splash shots. I mean, combine seven threes off the bench for those guys.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melis]

A huge first quarter going into the second quarter. There's no DOU though, but Caruso is going to be better. Crusoe is only one of eight in this game. And I think what's good for him is that he tried to crown Miles Turner in that first half. He tried to give it to him a nice pack, and he missed it. So he didn't have a great game offensively, obviously. Doing everything with the defense and getting out to that OKC crowd and getting them pumped after that beautiful dive swim. I don't know if Caruso's got a. A swim move named after him or something, but, yeah, he's. He's doing enough. So maybe the Pacers bench slash role players play better at home.

[Trey Kirby]

They played things perfectly with Caruso this season. He played more than 27 minutes once during the regular season. He's played more than 27 minutes in every single game so far. They started double big last night, and then after, I guess, Hartenstein got pulled first, it was basically staggered the entire time. Like you said, he only got 50 seconds at the start of the second half. They basically played one big just so they can get Caruso on the floor more and more. There's a reason.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

And then it just feels unfair when, like, your elite defensive guys in Dort, Case and Wallace, even Caruso, who's had some big games, like, like they're. They're not a joke on the other end. Like if they're hitting threes, like, Dort's shot just keeps getting higher and higher and keeps going in. Like the guy keeps hitting threes. And then Case and Wallace, that was the big one. I think coming into that game last night, I saw a stat like Casey Wallace and Chet Holmgren and had shots they had missed 17 of 18. Catch and shoot threes. Yeah, that's through the first four games. And then within that game, Chad had one, obviously, then Case and Wallace had a couple there. All of his are obviously going to come off of catch and shoot situations. So, you know, it's not really fair when those guys are hitting. So you're going to have to hope, if you're a paces fan, that they go back to missing probably in game six, but we'll see.

[Trey Kirby]

And they got to hope to get something from Miles Turner, because I'm like, chad Holmgren's not shooting the ball well. Like, he was 4 for 15 last night. He's not playing great offensively. Every time he dribbles, if he gets to a second dribble, it's a spin move. And guess what? The Pacers know it. They're able to deflect it down low. But he still has the confidence to try and make plays and to take open threes. And Miles Turner looks like he does not want the ball for the majority of these games.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, he's in a bad series.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Tas Melis]

And.

[Trey Kirby]

And they're giving him shots. Like that's part of the game plan. Is like we're going to be up on everybody else. Somebody's going to be open. It's going to be Miles Turner. And he's thinking about it every time.

[Jay E. Skeets]

They've never needed a game more to give us a game seven than Miles Turner hitting three or four of those above the break.

[Trey Kirby]

Three.

[Jay E. Skeets]

So maybe off the pump fake and reset like he needs to. He needs to see the first one even go in. And then you're like, oh, okay, maybe it's one of those games. He's a little streaky that way.

[Tas Melis]

So he's got to take it.

[Trey Kirby]

He's got to take it.

[Tas Melis]

Pass up that first one right to start.

[Jay E. Skeets]

He's absolutely in his head that he doesn't. He has no confidence right now in his shot. All right, let's get to some random notes. Random. Let's start with the Aaron Nesmith toe tap before we get to the big dunk. I. I loved how excited Doris Burke was on the call, illustrating and showing us great slow mo shot of how he does a little toe tap with his right foot there before he lets the three pointer go. And I was like, oh, that was good. That was a nice little attention to detail there from Burke and the crew. And it sure enough is a thing he does.

[Tas Melis]

I think he's just trying to sell his New Balance shoes. Hey, look at this balance on these shoes.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, they're like, New Balance is like, hey, NE Smith, I mean, you had an awesome game there against the Pacers. You've been really good all season. We're trying to move some inventory here. We got this great colorway. Think you can do anything before you shoot a three? Get some eyeballs on the shoe. Yeah. Try a toe tap.

[Tas Melis]

Nice replay.

[Trey Kirby]

It's a little like a. It's like a batting stance. I feel to make it unique. Like a Gary Sheffield had like a little tap downs. Joe Morgan was doing his arm. We should see more of this kind of stuff. Though I do think it probably makes you more likely to step on the three point line on accident if you're resetting your feet. And as a guy who steps on the three point line on 50 of my attempts, I'm a little nervous.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I was just gonna ask you, man, you. You step on the three point line more than anyone I've ever played.

[Trey Kirby]

100. Every time I play, I step on the three point.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I think 50, 50 is very fair. It's like, oh, he's either on it or he's not. But he's generally very, very close. That's a good thing about you.

[Tas Melis]

Do people call it out? Do people say, like, you hit a.

[Trey Kirby]

Shot and every time I'm like, yeah, probably. Yeah, I probably did.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I don't even. Even when Trey is lining up for a three point shot, if I'm playing against him, I'm immediately looking at his foot. Now, I'm not gonna lie, I won't lie about it. But more times than not, he's on it. And you get to yell at one. It's only one. Playing twos and ones.

[Tas Melis]

Maybe that happened to TJ McConnell too, because he did step on the line for his 13 point shot. You know, he takes his time. As Richard Jefferson points out. Yeah, broadcast. I knit it up.

[Trey Kirby]

Oh, man. Well, they did the slow mo replay of TJ taking a wide open 3 from the top. It was like a 15 second clip. They put it like 0.75 seconds speed. You're like, what are we watching? A coach Nick breakdown of his shooting mechanics.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Let's. Let's stick with N. Smith, though. And we've alluded to it a couple times. The crazy out of nowhere put back dunk.

[Tas Melis]

Yes.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Over Chad Holgren.

[Tas Melis]

And speaking of slowed down, I had to slow down this video because Chad Holgren kind of looks like he's possessed for a second. Right. It's like the spirits enter his body because his eyes go to the back of his head.

[Jay E. Skeets]

The undertaker. Yeah.

[Tas Melis]

So I just froze it here while I was watching the game. I thought, whoa, there must be like six replays. It's gotta be spreading all over the Internet that he is possessed in this video. But really it's just that one clip and you kind of have to stop it, but looks like there's a spirit that's entered his body. But it's just N. Smith going over top of him with two minutes left in this game. What a huge putback. But it kind of just went under the radar.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah. Nobody knew he dunked it.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Breen didn't know he dunked it. Burke had to point out. I think he got that one in. I think he converted that. It was like, oh, even. It felt like some of the players on the floor were even like, what the hell just happen it.

[Trey Kirby]

Did it go in so fast?

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

And he didn't touch the rim at all, did he? It was almost like a perfect swish from above. The Rim with his forearm. That was a crazy play.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. This offhand on. On Chet's shoulder a little bit to pump him up a little bit.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Well, my favorite part is after that, Duncan, after the confusion, you can hear. They must be sitting right behind Breen and Burke and rj. You can hear somebody in the crowd go, where did he come from? He literally make it. Make it out. Somebody just goes, where did he come from?

[Tas Melis]

It's like, holy crap.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Good question.

[Jay E. Skeets]

We already talked about the rebound highlight from Hartenstein with the one armed offensive board. The other great player. Weird play, I guess is a better way to put it. Early in the game, like, two minutes into the game, Chet Holmgren, that weird, like, layup where he, like, had his back turned and he flipped it over his head.

[Trey Kirby]

That was nice.

[Jay E. Skeets]

That was nice, but weird.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Backwards shot for a seven footer. It's like, one thing when a guard does it. It. You know what I mean? Like, a guy that big to turn his back because he's, like, trying to prevent from getting blocked. And he flipped it in.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Great job.

[Tas Melis]

That's a beauty. Also a great moment, and you guys may have not seen it. Red Panda performed at halftime.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I did see it. Making way around the. The Internet.

[Tas Melis]

Five bowls on her foot at one time. She's able to put five bowls onto her head.

[Jay E. Skeets]

She nailed it last night. It sounded like there was no drops.

[Tas Melis]

Standing ovations, I think from the crowd, or at least I did. The goat from. She was killing it. She killed it.

[Jay E. Skeets]

She's had a real like. Like, she was the goat.

[Tas Melis]

Yep.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Sort of. Immediately, everyone's like, this is the most insane halftime performance. And then I felt like, I don't know if she disappeared for a while or we just moved on to other things. I know she did have a period of time where the Bulls were dropping. I got on her case. People got very upset with me. But I swear, like, she's back.

[Tas Melis]

Oh, she is.

[Jay E. Skeets]

She really is.

[Tas Melis]

She's recovered.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah. So good for her. Great story.

[Tas Melis]

Great comeback story.

[Jay E. Skeets]

This was a fun. You know, you saw this image going around last night on Twitter When McConnell was, like, bringing the Pacers back, that takeover in the third quarter. You know, at one point he went to the free throw line, and people were saying, look at the comparisons to the locked in. LeBron James catching his breath, hunched over. We're going. We're going with tj. So I just did the split screen here for everyone, but great similarities.

[Trey Kirby]

TJ and lj.

[Jay E. Skeets]

That's right.

[Trey Kirby]

Both playing like mj.

[Jay E. Skeets]

That's right. That's right. So just fun stuff. And then my final note and I know you had the video on your Twitter account. TK I did not have Tony Bradley fast break attempt slash Euro step attempt on my bingo card last night.

[Trey Kirby]

Didn't work out.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Didn't work out. But did not even think it was going to be attempted. That was. That was ballsy.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. I mean Tony Bradley was back. That was a surprise to me to begin with. Hadn't played since the Knicks series. After the injury they weren't trust in Thomas Bryant. So somehow I think it's ma and passes him the ball basically at the opposing three point line. And Tony sees nobody in front of him. I might as well handle it. Tried the Euro step. I think he could probably just go up on the guy who's six inches shorter than you. But cool move. That was fun to watch.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I was reminded last night watching this game and maybe it was because of Tony Bradley trying a fast break Euro step. Remember we were told Jairus Walker was only going to miss like the first. I feel like they told us first two games.

[Trey Kirby]

They said first two for sure.

[Jay E. Skeets]

For sure. And you know, unfortunately I haven't seen him at all. And I do think there would have been a place for him a healthy Juris Walker at least for some spot minutes.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. To get in there they need somebody.

[Jay E. Skeets]

We haven't haven't seen him.

[Tas Melis]

So I don't know if it happens in game six but nobody thought Tony Bradley would be out there.

[Trey Kirby]

If it's the finals and you can walk, you can try and play.

[Jay E. Skeets]

That's right.

[Trey Kirby]

I also liked Pascal Siakam after this was in the fourth quarter about 10 minutes in. I think it's Halliburton knocks the ball out over the top. Chet Holmgren trying to re rebound as well. Thunder want to replay instantly. But Siakam knows the ball is off Halliburton. So as John Goble the official is holding the ball, Siakam's like trying to stall from him to try and before the Thunder could call for their review. But Goble wasn't having any of it.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. And then.

[Jay E. Skeets]

But then. But that was hilarious. Then we go and review. This is the one where they go and review it.

[Trey Kirby]

They got it. Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

The Thunder were right. Thunder were right.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

But then they just threw the ball away to Siakam for a fast terrible turnover.

[Tas Melis]

Ye.

[Jay E. Skeets]

It was like that was a complete waste of time.

[Tas Melis]

And we got a replay of John Goble not giving the ball to PAs because they want to say hey this is what referees do.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Now, we brought this up.

[Tas Melis]

Oh, yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Earlier in the pause.

[Tas Melis]

Give him three seconds.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah. You think we blew up?

[Tas Melis]

So any other notes from Isaiah Hardenstein? Not fighting TJ McConnell, I thought was a very sportsmanlike moment where TJ McConnell gave him a hard foul as a. Hardenstein popped up and it looked like it's ready. We're ready for blows, but. But they just shook hands.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Like, dapped him up.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. Cool.

[Jay E. Skeets]

It's like good hard foul.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. T.J. mcConnell, everyone assumes, probably said, yeah, it was just a foul, man. Or, I didn't mean to hit you. I just want a clean foul kind of thing. Or whatever you said.

[Jay E. Skeets]

And it wasn't. It was nothing.

[Tas Melis]

No, it was nothing. But we saw Hartenstein, who do you get into somebody's face a couple days ago and maybe it wasn't the Finals, Maybe I'm the Knicks, I don't know.

[Jay E. Skeets]

But it all blends together. But he got.

[Tas Melis]

He got into somebody's face. There was a technical.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melis]

Called on it.

[Trey Kirby]

There was.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

What's it. What do you think about Rick's technical last night where he was livid that Nemhard got fouled by Dort on that one?

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. I think he had a valid beef.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

The low body to body from Dort. Like, he did a good job of pulling his hands back for sure, but by doing so, he thrust his groinal region into Nevad. I thought. But I mean, we'll get into Rick Carlisle later. We'll sauce those nugs later.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Okay.

[Tas Melis]

Okay. Yeah. One. One other thing I think Carlisle may have been mad about, as I. I slipped it in the Pascal Siakam. He was driving three and a half minutes into this game, his second turnover. He just kind of lost the ball. Hartenstein looked like he yanked him. Looked like he put his hand on. On Siakam's back. And Carlo was mad about everything, but he had things to be mad about.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, he did. We also did have a Rick Spit last night.

[Trey Kirby]

Oh.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Back turn, though. I didn't grab the clip because I was like, it's not that great. But he definitely turns around and hawks a loogie into his cups.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

So I don't know. What do we have? Is that like his. That's got to be his third or fourth on camera spit of the final, I think.

[Trey Kirby]

Oh, definitely.

[Tas Melis]

Easily.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Easily at least his third.

[Trey Kirby]

We gotta. Gotta go back and watch the tape. He said a couple early every time Rick Carlisle spit during the NBA Finals. Might be a great clip, actually.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Honestly, be a Pretty good clip.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Okay. Anything else?

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah, we haven't had a wedgie in 53 days.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Remember wedgie?

[Jay E. Skeets]

We almost had one last night. It was a. Was it a block one? I think.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah. Yeah, it got there. It got close, but it. I mean, it obviously didn't stick or. Yeah, I think it was a homegrown play. Bang bang inside and it like sort of like almost wedged in there, but fell right out. But wow, three days. Is this the longest we've ever gone without a wedgie?

[Trey Kirby]

I don't know. What.

[Jay E. Skeets]

You know, obviously, when basketball's being played.

[Tas Melis]

I think it might be possible.

[Jay E. Skeets]

That's long.

[Tas Melis]

Ash is seeing them right now because he's putting all 48 of the wedgies of the season together.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Okay.

[Tas Melis]

So. Yeah, make sure you share the wedgies with your friends after Ash puts it up on. After we get it up there. But yeah, I'm checking quickly how many we've had in the playoffs in the past to see if there's a. A longer span.

[Jay E. Skeets]

But you said we usually have a little more than how. How many we've had this postseason. We haven't had one since the first round then, is what you're saying.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah. John Conchar.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah.

[Trey Kirby]

Was the first.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. We usually have more.

[Jay E. Skeets]

1. Do we have one in the play.

[Tas Melis]

In Maybe Nikhil Alexander walker. That's the second one. Right. That's Minnesota versus Lakers, April19. That's the playoffs. So we've had two.

[Jay E. Skeets]

We've had two.

[Tas Melis]

That's. I think that's the all time low. Tie for a low.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Let's hope for a game six wedgie. Let's talk it into a big distance.

[Tas Melis]

I'll be queues.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Location? The lab. Quentin only has 24 hours to sell his car. Is that even possible? He goes to Carvana.com. what is this, a movie trailer? He ignores the doubters, enters his license plate. Wow, that's a great offer. The car is sold, but will Carvana pick it up in time?

[Trey Kirby]

They'll literally pick it up tomorrow morning. Done with the dramatics.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Car selling in record time. Save your time.

[Trey Kirby]

Go to Carvana.com and sell your car today.

[Tas Melis]

Pickup fees may apply.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Race the rudders. Race the sails. Race the sails.

[Tas Melis]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution?

[JD]

Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today at LinkedIn.com results. Terms and conditions apply.

[Josie Santee]

Hey, this is Josie Santi from the Every Girl podcast, and this episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Summer's here, and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dressed season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways in your everyday wardrobe. Discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims, Princess Polly, and Madewell. It's easy, too, with free shipping and free returns in store. Order, pickup and more. Shop today in stores [e-mail] or download the Nordstrom app.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Okay, let's keep talking about the finals here and a bunch of other things. Let's play true or false. Okay, first one. This is fun. Ahead of Monday night's Game 5, ABC aired the player introductions of the starting lineups for both the Pacers and the Thunder. This caught me by surprise. This was the first time they had done so at the final since 2013. It had been 12 years since. We've just shown you the player introductions Now. This was fun because a lot of us were like, we were begging for this. Come on. Make it feel like the finals. They finally did so. True or false? Tk we'll start with you. ABC needs to keep airing the NBA final player intros.

[Trey Kirby]

This is an easy true. This was an easy win for the NBA last night to just show us guys running out. Let's hear your song. Let's hear your pregame video. It was awesome to watch. I was watching with my buddy John. He's a huge sports fan. He had no idea that they hadn't shown the intros for the the past 12 years. And he's like, why don't they show the intros? This is getting me hyped. I'm like, exactly. Everybody loves it. It's so cool to see Rumble the Bison from up top. It felt like turning on a video game and you're getting ready to play in the NBA Finals. This is cool to see. So, yeah, I think they gotta keep doing this. I'm sure it cuts into one ad break, but suck it up.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, I thought, sweet. I was wondering if anyone was gonna swerve on this and say false because they would have preferred to have watched another Stage State Farm commercial.

[Trey Kirby]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Tas, I assume you're a true. Loving this.

[Tas Melis]

Yes. Tell the story. Yeah, I mean, for the director, the producer, you see that. That we're watching here on YouTube, there's a bit of a side eye from Shay. He's just. He's just waiting that I noticed that the first time and now I notice it here, watching second time. Because it's a story. It's storytelling from the director and the producer. I don't care if it's super boring. It's way better than a commercial. And I understand the ads do pay the people working, but who gives a crap? How about more about the.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Don't worry, they got enough ads?

[Tas Melis]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Again, it could be super duper boring. And Shea is just. He's totally locked in. He is.

[Jay E. Skeets]

That's why, like, part of what I think's cool about to see, like, their demeanor, to see, like, who daps up who, who jumps into who, who's feeling loose, who's more serious. Yeah, I think that sort of help at least sets the table for the game. And obviously the crowd is unreal.

[Tas Melis]

So it's better than any other choice. Danielle, my wife, gets a little weirded out by the Bison. She doesn't like the Bison.

[Trey Kirby]

I don't know why does he have bangs?

[Tas Melis]

You know, his hair is weird.

[Jay E. Skeets]

There was a cool cinematic shot. J.D. i think you have the pic. At one point during those intros they showed just over SGA's shoulder, he was looking up at the actual. Like, if you know, the OKC video intro before they show the players or introduce the players, that just look pretty badass, I thought, cool stuff.

[Tas Melis]

Oh, Jim Ice. There he is, our friend Jim Ice.

[Jay E. Skeets]

What's up, Jim? Good point from Eric Nem of the Athletic, though. I know in the live blog last night he said, quote, as someone who has watched a whole lot of introductions over the years, Eric is usually in the building for these. I have to wonder if the league gave instructions to the teams and then the teams gave instructions to the players to honor their actual in arena announcements and not just all run off the bench in one big blob. He says, you know, this is a thing the Bucks do a lot of the time. Like, they don't wait for each name. They just like, okay, they're all out there. Like, Giannis is already out there by the time they're on the third name. Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe not. I don't know. But it's like, interesting point. Like, hey, if we're gonna do this, don't all run out at once because it's very confusing for our. For our graphics operator. Chiron Operator.

[Tas Melis]

Right. And just another thing about it, you just promote the players as well. You just don't. Some people don't know who is playing for the Indiana Pacers or the Oklahoma City Thunder. And you see names obviously on the jerseys during the game. But, you know, here are the 10 players. You get to know their names. Lou Gens Dort is the way they say his name in intros. I didn't know that was coming. Thought it was just going to be a Lou. So just. Yeah, it just makes sense.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Front office sports is saying they're keeping it for at least the rest of these finals.

[Trey Kirby]

Okay.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Okay. So we're going to get it at least once or twice more. Yep.

[Trey Kirby]

And we got finals on the court.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, we do have finals on the court. It's starting to feel a little bit more like a finals. It took until like game four or five, but we got there and we just had to keep whining about it. But they are listening thing, I guess.

[Tas Melis]

And video reviews have not been long. If we want to talk about the things we complain about. They've been all right.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Games have been long though.

[Tas Melis]

They've been long.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Tom ha was breaking it down. Yeah, I don't know about game five last night. I don't have the numbers on that one. Felt like a pretty long game, but maybe not as long as game four. That one was very, very long. And I, I just mean from like tip to the end of the game. I think. I think Tom clocked it at like 169 minutes. Yeah, that's a pretty long game.

[Tas Melis]

It's longer as long. It's over two and a half.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. 2, 250.

[Jay E. Skeets]

But it was good. It was entertaining.

[Trey Kirby]

I love to see guys giving each other high fives, you know.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Sure, man.

[Trey Kirby]

Good to see you.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I almost. It's just weird to say. I almost like seeing the road team more and maybe that's just because the lights are on so you can see them better.

[Trey Kirby]

See them better.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, that's true. It gets all dark and they set. Set the mood for the home team, but crowd was incredible. Okay, next one here. Let's move away from the Finals. According to NBA insider Jake Fisher, the Heat have a swing piece that they were reluctant to relinquish in past trade talks with the Suns for Kevin Durant. Fischer wrote in the Steinlein newsletter. Miami's ultimate willingness to surrender Khalil Ware, given the Suns noted hole at center, could be the true swing factor in the Heat's Durant pursuit in February. It was clear sources say Miami was unwilling at the trade deadline to part with either of its recent first round draft successes. Ware or Jaime Hawkez Jr. Could that change now? Wonders Jake Fisher? So can start with you here, Tas, the true or false question is the Heat shouldn't include Khalil Ware in any Kevin Durant trades. True or false?

[Tas Melis]

I think that's false. I think you should include him. I've gone back and watched every minute of Khalil Ware's first season. I'm not going to pull a Kevin o' Connor here, but I did go back and watch some of the moments and I did think that he could potentially win Rookie of the Year after his his first month where he was hot as fire. Is that more about the Rookie of the Year? Is that more about Khalil? Well I just think there is. Obviously he's going to get better. He's raw, he's learning. But I think you they should, they should and would give it up for Kevin Durant because I think they are willing to go get a star. Kevin Durant still a star with a big name. He would be I think extremely happy to be there as the number one option on offense. No disrespect to Tyler Herro but I think he would love that. I think they would embrace that. I think as we've said he loves the warm weather. They've got a 9 rank 9th ranked defense this past season so that is going to work around Kevin Durant. They are still going to be an incredible defense. He is going to make their offense better and if the piece is Khalil Ware I'd be entirely fine with it because it sure seems like that would be the the best name.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah I think the package in this hypothetical Heat to the Suns for Durant deal is going to either be Andrew Wiggins and then Duncan Robinson and his $19 million contract then some sort of draft capital. They do have a pick in this year's draft. They have a couple of future first round picks and then either Khalil Ware or Jaime Hawkeye as Junior. I don't know where Jovic plays into this but but this idea of like where or Hawk has junior the Suns only do it if one of those guys are included. What's your take on that? Would you if you're in Miami's sort of position hands off him. No way we do that for a 37 year old Durant or we would include him.

[Trey Kirby]

I'm more with TAS on this one. I think if Miami has any chance of getting this deal done they would have to include Khalil Ware. So I think put him in the offer because it's unlikely that this goes to the Heat anyways. I just think that there are going to be better packages from other teams like you know the Timberwolves are still kicking around according to John Krasinski. So like would you rather have Rudy Gobert or Khalil? Where for the future. For sure. Where. But Gobert is a better player right now. You also think about what the Heat would look like if they got the deal done. Is Khalil where even starting? Because surely Bam and Kevin Durant are your front court. I mean maybe they try and go 3, 4, 5 with where is the center but that seems unlikely to me. So. So I don't see a problem with putting him in the offer because I doubt the Suns would accept it from the Heat.

[Jay E. Skeets]

If you had to pick one of the two, if you're the Heat, who would you prefer to move off of? Hawkez Jr or where prefer to move off? Yeah, like if like we can. Okay. We have to. Okay. We really want Kevin Durant. We have to include one of them. Who would you prefer to keep if you're Miami. Yeah.

[Tas Melis]

It is a tough question because Jaime Hawkes rookie year was awesome and then he went to to the bench to start year two and it didn't work out like he he did in year one while Khalil Ware is. It's fresher here being in his rookie year and having a really good 64 game season. So I get, I guess the, the potential is higher on Khalil Ware, but I believe in Hama Hakas as well. But I do agree that he as far as fit wise, as far as the rotation goes, it will be Durant and Bam starting at the four or five if that was the case. And yeah, I'm starting to think that way because I don't know if Minnesota's willing to take that big a chance and so I don't know about these packages with Kevin Durant. We may be talking about the best players here that are available.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, look, maybe it feels like if the Rockets or Spurs, I mean they have, they've got the pieces more pieces or younger pieces, more promising players. Maybe not. I guess the draft capital too. Like I said the Heat have the number 20 pick in this year's draft that could comes by way of the warriors and then they have two more future picks that they could include. 20, 30, 2032. Now I don't, I don't think it's all of that and all of what I mentioned for Kevin Durant, but maybe one or two of those Fire is.

[Trey Kirby]

Definitely better than Hawk.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah. You prefer.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

You would give up.

[Trey Kirby]

I think he's better now and he's what four years younger.

[Jay E. Skeets]

He's much younger.

[Trey Kirby]

Hawkes is a guy who comes in and looks awesome because he's already skilled and he's an older player. You know it's similar to Dalton Connect having a great first half of his rookie season as well. There was a reason Hawkes was a little bit out of the rotation this year. He's not a great shooter and doesn't just have a lot of development left ahead of him probably. Meanwhile you look at where a 7 foot 2 guy who's 20 years old with the crazy athleticism that he has you can at least sketch him out as a future starting center. Whereas Hawk has is probably like a fifth or sixth guy.

[Jay E. Skeets]

It's a good point. I sort of do forget that Hawk has is turning. He'll be 25 during next season like during mid season season. So he is a bit older than or definitely older than where.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. Who's 21. Yeah.

[Jay E. Skeets]

See why the Suns would want him desperately need like a young big center to plug in there. You'll be asking for that. But will you get it? I don't think so. I'm with you guys in that hypothetical. Don't. Don't include him. I don't know. KD Hero and bam in the east. That may be fun. Fun. I can't wrap my head around it. All right. Final one. Pacers coach Rick Carlisle gave an impassioned defense Sunday of veteran NBA referee Scott Foster after he was ripped by indie fans and some media commentators, including us for his work in Game four. This is what Carlisle said. Quote. I think it's awful with some of the things I've seen about the officiating. I've known Scott Foster for 30 years. Full name. He's a great official. He's done a great job in these playoffs. We've had him a lot of times and the ridiculous scrutiny that's being thrown out there is terrible. It's unfair and unjust. So we won't know until the morning of game day. But it's possible Foster could be officiating game six or game seven. So I want to know true or false. Rick Carlisle defending Scott Foster was a calculated move, I think.

[Trey Kirby]

True. You really do believe everything's gamesmanship at this level. Skates. The guy got super upset at a one missed foul call early in the game to get a technical in game five. That is no different to me than going to the media and saying Scott Foster is a good rep. We need to get these calls come game seven. That's the same as freaking out at whoever Made the call in game five. Hey, we need to get these calls going forward. So you do what you can. Rick Carlisle is a guy who likes to stick up for people. He stuck up for Doris Burke as well. Anytime somebody gets fired, since he's had so many jobs in the coaches union, Rick Carlisle will always stick up for whoever got let go. If it's an unjust firing or something like that, you'll never hear him advocating for somebody to let lose their job or anything like that. And then you think about Scott Foster. He gets put on the finals every year. We think it's crazy. Cause we're like, this guy's the extender. The NBA thinks he's the best rep they've got. But he brings a lot of scrutiny upon himself because he calls the most files of anybody. So then it's like, look at all these files we can review.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Sure, sure.

[Tas Melis]

I do agree he defends people, but I think that's all he's doing in this case. At first I thought, yeah, of course he's doing this. Yeah, he wants a one call, just one call to go his way from Scott Foster. But then you start to think he does everything. He gave Don Nelson the Chuck Daly Lifetime Achievement Award because he heads the National Basketball Coaches association earlier this NBA Finals. He just does that. You're right. He defends everybody. Yeah, yeah. Every broadcaster. He just respects people. So I think this is just respecting Scott Foster full name. I think that's it. I think so.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Scott Foster, though. I mean, it is. He's a full name guy. You can't just call him Scott.

[Trey Kirby]

No way.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Maybe Foster, but even that feels wrong.

[Trey Kirby]

Mr. Foster.

[Jay E. Skeets]

He's Scott, sir.

[Trey Kirby]

Foster.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Foster. Tickling the ivory. All right, let's call it there. True or false. Let's hear from you guys in the Stream team right now. True or false? With all three of those questions, talking player introductions, talking about the idea of including Khalil Ware or Jaime Hawkez Jr. In a heat deal for Kevin Durant. And then of course, Rick Carla. What was he doing when he was sticking up for Scott Fox?

[Trey Kirby]

Did you know that they had referee stats on Basketball Reference?

[Jay E. Skeets]

I was like, oh, I didn't know they were on basketball.

[Trey Kirby]

I put Scott Foster into the search bar, comes up with his bio. Give me a good Magruder High School in Rockville, Maryland. We got stats dating back to 94, 95. How many personal fouls per game Scott Foster calls? How many personal. How many free throws per 48 minutes?

[Jay E. Skeets]

Wow.

[Trey Kirby]

There's relative data comparing them to the others. There's home versus visitor stats. This is ridiculous.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Amazing.

[Trey Kirby]

30 teams. Who's he called the most personal fouls per 48 minutes against. Of course, you guessed it, the Utah Jazz. Awesome.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Scott Foster stats on Basketball reference. Go check them out. We'll see if he. I mean, I think it's unlikely he would officiate game six, but I think it's possible. Game seven. If it goes there again. You don't find out till the morning of. They release it at 9am that's the catch.

[Trey Kirby]

48.

[Jay E. Skeets]

It's like finding out what the waves are like out on the ocean. Surf's up.

[Trey Kirby]

Scott's up.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Scott's up.

[Tas Melis]

But he did game four, right?

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tas Melis]

That seems like a quick turnaround. Why would he not do the first three games and then do the four and six or four and.

[Jay E. Skeets]

No, I said not six.

[Trey Kirby]

I don't think.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I think seven's possible because he's the best. At least they think he's the best.

[Tas Melis]

It's like having a.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Because they're like, he's the extender. Let's see if he can get us to game eight. See if we can do the impossible.

[Tas Melis]

It's like a base baseball starter who starts Game 4 in a playoff series. He's done like Todd. Todd Sotomayor is done. You know, he played pitch. He's done coming back.

[Jay E. Skeets]

What'd you think of Shohei on the mountain? Did you watch?

[Tas Melis]

I guess he missed.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I guess it wasn't great.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah, that's what I heard.

[Trey Kirby]

One inning.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Oh, he only did one.

[Tas Melis]

He got up to 100 miles per hour, I heard.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Damn.

[Trey Kirby]

Wow.

[Tas Melis]

That's what he does.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Pretty amazing.

[Tas Melis]

But he missed the strike zone, I heard. That's all I got.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Okay.

[Trey Kirby]

I hit the strike zone.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Okay, good.

[Trey Kirby]

Everybody knows that.

[Jay E. Skeets]

All right, so here's the deal, guys. Game six is on Thursday. That means what are we gonna do tomorrow? We got something fun in store, so you gotta join us at 10am Eastern. We're gonna fire up the the tier maker and do some ranking. When it comes to the past, you know, 20 plus NBA Finals, I think we'll have a lot of fun with this. So join us at 10am Eastern. We'll get into a whole bunch of debates about how good said NBA Finals were. So we'll do that here live on YouTube, flipped into a podcast back on Thursday, get you hyped for game six. And then obviously Friday will be breaking down either the champions in the Oklahoma City Thunder or getting very excited for a game seven. So we'll See. Till then, Clover bros. You heard it here first.

[Trey Kirby]

Have a great time. Turn up.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Love you guys.

[Trey Kirby]

Awesome.

[Tas Melis]

Thanks for joining us. And remember, Scott Foster is like the only other Foster I know. Foster's Australian beer. It's. It's known, but it ain't that good. That's what I've heard. Isn't it true?

[Jay E. Skeets]

No, you're right. You're absolutely right.

[Tas Melis]

I don't know. You guys know. You guys know better than I do.

[Jay E. Skeets]

No, it's not. I mean, jd, you can chime in here. I know you've had a Fosters or two. I mean, it's not. Oh, it's not good.

[Tas Melis]

That's not bad.

[Jay E. Skeets]

But you know what it is though? Like, I think like Canadians with like so many songs. Labat Blue or Molson Canadian. Like, that's not a good beer when you're in Canada.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jay E. Skeets]

I mean, it's a completely basic beer right now. I think international people like, oh, yeah, I gotta try it, right? I think a lot of people do that when they go to Australia. Got to have a fals, but I think Australians are like, there are way better beers.

[Tas Melis]

Totally.

[Jay E. Skeets]

100% okay.

[Tas Melis]

Yeah. The one that's got a V in it. What's it?

[Jay E. Skeets]

Vb.

[Tas Melis]

Vb.

[Jay E. Skeets]

That's a great beer. Oh, yeah.

[Tas Melis]

VB is awesome.

[Jay E. Skeets]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Race the day people.

[Trey Kirby]

Got to have a false dizzy.

[Jay E. Skeets]

When you're a forward thinker, the only thing you're afraid of is business as usual. Workday is the AI platform that transforms the way you manage your your people and money today so you can transform tomorrow. Workday moving business forever forward.

[Josie Santee]

Hey, this is Josie Santee from the Every Girl podcast, and this episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Summer's here, and Nordstrom has everything you need for your best dressed season ever. From beach days and weddings to weekend getaways in your everyday wardrobe, discover stylish options under $100 from tons of your favorite brands like Mango Skims, Princess Polly, and Madewell. It's easy too, with free shipping and free returns in store order, pickup and more. Shop today in stores [e-mail] or download the Nordstrom app.

[Unknown]

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