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- [00:00]
A
Foreign.
- [00:09]
B
Welcome to no Dunks. I'm your host for today, Trey Kirby. Joining me here in the yard, it's Tas Melis.
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A
Hey, Trey.
- [00:18]
B
Hey, man. You want to do a basketball podcast?
- [00:20]
A
Gosh, it's been a while.
- [00:22]
B
Yeah. Exciting times. Exciting times that people are going nuts. Leo can't believe it. We're on time. Yeah, we are on time. Enjoy it while you can. No Skeets, today he is up in Canada waiting on some green card stuff. So he will be back in time for the season. We'll hopefully be making some announcements around the same time. So, yeah, I mean, it's still just September. Tass season really starts getting kicked off. I feel like next week we start getting media days for all these teams on the 29th. I know, like, the Hawks are doing theirs and quite a few other teams. Otherwise, though, what you been up to?
- [01:02]
A
Well, I've been getting revved up for the season, hearing Trey Young and Pat Beverly go at each other head to head. Oh, the Trey Young edit by their producer. I liked it. You could hear the mic here. Listen to this. The mic was bouncing around like that and. And Trey Young was just smooth on the mic. I love that. So I'm, I'm getting revved up. Especially, I don't know it. I'm. I'm the optimist. So I, I feel like I'm optimistic about a lot of teams, but I think the Trae Young Atlanta Hawks optimism, I'm just high on that. We'll get to that a little later, but I think there's lots of things to be excited about.
- [01:43]
B
Yeah, look. Disappointing season for the Atlanta Braves. Disappointing last weekend for the Atlanta Falcons. Now is the time to be excited about the Hawks. We'll get to our over under predictions later, but when it's September and you're just going through the rosters and you're looking at all the moves that all the teams make, it's like I want to go over on 25 of 30 teams.
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A
Yeah, for sure. And since you mentioned the Atlanta Braves, I must say that the Toronto Blue Jays are ready to play baseball in October.
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B
Let's go.
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A
Yeah, I like the shirts after they officially qualify just as October baseball.
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B
Pretty simple.
- [02:27]
A
I mean, I'm getting it wrong, but it's. It's October on their shirts. What? It definitely says October on their shirts because they're ready to go. This is definitely the time to be over optimistic about the Toronto Blue Jays.
- [02:40]
B
Yeah, Toronto Blue Jays. We'll get to the Toronto Raptors later. We are going to be ranking every team's best player. You actually don't even know the best players that I've chosen for all 30 of these teams. That'll be interesting. But first, we've got some news in the association, some bad news. Shams reported yesterday that the Rockets Fred Van Vliet suffered a torn acl. Additional reporting apparently it happened at a mini camp in the Bahamas. Fred, though, may miss the entire 20, 25, 26 season because you know, it's an ACL injury and it happened right before the start of the season. Task what was your reaction to the Fred Van Vliet news that the Rockets.
- [03:21]
A
Aren'T a championship team without Fred Van Vliet? He is just like that. Yeah, he's so important to that team. He is a rock. And the point guard is the least amount of depth that they have in terms of all the positions. It's that one. It's Reed shepherd now as a second year player who didn't play a lot as a rookie year and I'm definitely optimistic watching him at summer league. Throw it around and the guy can score, there's no doubt. But now you got to run a team and it's that or it's Aaron Holiday who has, you know, never been quite a backup guard in this team, in this league. Or it's Amen Thompson doing something on a whole other level. Of course he can pass and he can play make. But just the fact of that rock that was there last year being not only the guy who brings it up, just getting everybody into their set. So that's where Amen Thompson was really good, being that secondary ball handler and passing it. But now literally you got to rely on him doing so much and then he's got to go at the other end and probably pick up the other team's best player on the defensive end, stay out of foul trouble and I'm sure they'll rely on Tari Eason to do more of that. And yeah, you'll see these incredible lineups with guys like Alper and Sengun and and Kevin Durant, as you mentioned in the short that you recorded, maybe they handle the ball a little bit more. But you need a ball handler, a serious ball handler and I think that's the scary part for this team that has been set up so well. Raphael Stone has set this team up where they just had to give up Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks to go get Kevin Durant. They looked solid and now the question is if they can be able to put a few of those pieces that Raphael Stone has kept on their roster for a trade for some sort of point guard because they can't just go sign a guy with their current contracts and with them being at the first apron, they can't go sign a really solid NBA player. They have to deal a few of them. And maybe that is a possibility here. But part of it is Trey. I just feel terrible for Fred Bradley, who has obviously persevered through injury after injury after injury. He's never missed more than 22 games in a season. He's been a rock. And those missed games were last year for the Houston Rockets when he missed 22. He missed a month, and the team was a little under.500 when he was out because they needed him. And maybe it's a little different with Alper and Shanghorn growing as a player and fricking Kevin Durant and Amen Thompson growing. But really, to take down a team like okc, you need. You need a really, really capable point guard. And I know that there's a chance that he comes back at the end, but I. I think it takes him a little bit of time after watching him after that missed month last year to really get going. So I don't like the sounds of that at all. If I'm Raphael Stone, I'm definitely looking around and thinking maybe there's a guy who's capable of at least handling the ball a little bit more, basically every possession to get us into our sets.
- [06:29]
B
Yeah, I think December 15th is going to be a huge day for the Houston Rockets and for Rockets fans, because I'm with you. This definitely strikes a blow to their championship odds. They were one of the top five teams heading into the season. We didn't even get to the season, and they're losing a starter. And like you're saying, it's the position of least depth for the Rockets because Reed shepherd was not ready last year, only played like 650 minutes. That's hardly anything. I don't know if they'll start him. I kind of feel like they will lean towards Amend Thompson on the ball, seeing what he can grow his game as, as a creator. And then they'll obviously play through Sengoon quite a bit. I think he's a good passer, a good playmaker as well. But we've seen with these Kevin Durant teams, you still need a point guard, even though Katie is such an offense unto himself. So I think the plan for Houston should kind of be, let's see what we have the first two months of the season with Amen playing as a pseudo point guard with Reed shepherd stepping into a bigger role. And then once a bunch more players become eligible to be traded, both from the Rockets and players on other teams, they're probably going to have to look at getting a starting caliber point guard because they don't have one with Fred Van Vliet out. And the defense is big, the ball handling is big, the playmaking is big. But Fred Van Vliet was a three point chucker and that's something that the Rockets are going to be missing this season. Last year they were 27th in three point attempt rates, so right near the bottom of the league. And that was with Fred Van Vliet, Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks in town. Those guys combined to take 22 three pointers per game for the Rockets. Didn't always shoot them well, but you still got to take them in the NBA right now if they start a man Thompson, then they either move Dorian, Finney Smith or Tari Eason into the starting lineup alongside Jabari Smith, KD and Sengun. That's not a lot of shooting. Still an awesome defensive team, but they need somebody to take some shots from the outside. So I think starting in December, we'll see the Rockets get involved in a bunch of different names. People that I wrote down, Kobe White from the Bulls seems like he would be a good fit for this Rockets team. Jrue Holiday maybe doesn't stick around in Portland for very long. And then C.J. mcCollum with the Wizards is another guy who at the very least can score from the outside. So there are some gettable stop gap starting point guards I think out there for the Rockets, depending on how things go the first month and a half, two months of the season.
- [08:58]
A
Yes, and the good thing is about this Rockets team, they're at the first apron and not the second apron. Let's get technical baby. They can combine a few of their players to trade for anyone. They can aggregate those salaries. So it's not just a one for one type of deal because like you said about CJ McCollum, definitely a player that you'd think would would fit in terms of just shooting that thing. But he makes a lot of money. So on the other side, maybe the Wizards decide we'll do a buyout because that is a possibility here at this point of his career. And maybe that works out better even for the Houston Rockets because you're gonna have to combine several salaries to get CJ McCollum. I don't like this Russell Westbrook idea that everybody seems to be thrown Around.
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B
No thank you.
- [09:44]
A
Yeah, he is a free agent obviously the best idea and it to me as a immediate stopgap right here, right now. Even Sean McCabe is saying it here in the stream team Monte Morris is available. I think that's a decent option just strictly to have a guy out there, although I thought he was signing in Europe. But just this to have a guy out there who listen, he's a cable player. He's played with the Nuggets. He tried out with the Wolves a little bit. So they need somebody and I, and I just, just for right here, right now, I think that's a, a decent option. But the Russ let's go back to him and KD idea, they need space out there on the floor and Russ ain't doing that. He could play obviously with Jokic and other playmakers, but it's not the same anymore. It just ain't the same in terms of his athleticism. And the guys who would want to be going to the rim and scoring at the rim just wouldn't have the space with Russell Westbrook not shooting or shooting when nobody else wants him to type of thing. So I don't love that Rice Russ idea, although that's the hot one because he is still available.
- [11:01]
B
Yeah. And you don't even have to do a Photoshop. He's played for the Rockets once upon a time, so it's just easy to throw up a picture of him. It's like, whoa, did he ever play with Kevin Durant? You know he did. So yeah. I see why people lean that way. I don't think he's the answer for this team though. He is a helpful regular season player just with the attitude and the effort that he always brings. I don't think Monte Morris is the guy either, but at least he's going to be cheap. I think they're just going to have to see what they've got with Reed shepherd and with a men handling as a point guard, I'm a little skeptical of a man as a point guard just because the guys played wing in the NBA for the past two seasons. Point guard is a huge leap. So I think they're just going to want a more veteran guy. But the KDP is what the big change is because if you were going to tell Rockets fans if they had never done the trade for for Kevin Durant but still found a way to ditch Jalen Green and Dylan Brooks and you said guess what, we're going to have huge roles for Amend Thompson and Reed shepherd. People be excited. So at the very least, we're going to see what the Rockets have in those two guys. But I just feel like they became very important at their jobs and maybe they weren't expecting that this season, but we'll see what happens. I think the Rockets though, around Christmas time, we'll probably start looking into other players. But man, yeah, I'm with you a little bit. It feels like their championship hopes took quite a big hit last night or yesterday afternoon, I suppose.
- [12:29]
A
Yeah. And just to reiterate, but listen, we're going to see Reed shepherd time. This is like a two month audition here from October to December to see what he can be as their starting guard. So he has to get them in their place and just fire away from three point line because he doesn't have to get into the lane a ton. You know, Fred, that wasn't really Fred's thing. He has to do it a little bit though. So this is, this is some responsibilities. But then he has to just pass to these other guys. Like you said, men, Thompson has been able to do that from the forward spot. So there is that Year two, let's see what Reed shepherd can do. And then on the other side, it's just Fred was the heartbeat of this team. And again, it is different with Sengun. We just watched him in Eurobasket. He has grown as a leader. This is going to be the best Senun we've seen. So there's a possibility that this team can retain that heartbeat a little bit. With Shangun there. I wouldn't ask of that from Kevin Durant. That's not really his thing. I don't think they need, they need somebody out there to really be the energy to be their source. Last year I think Fred was able to keep Jalen Green in line. They also had Dylan Brooks. I'm not even mentioning Dylan Brooks. He was part of their heartbeat too. So that's, that's where they really fall short as well. Besides, you know, making plays and stuff. They're gonna have a great defensive team, but just who they are. Keep everything rock steady. That's what Fred was, man. And so we'll see what, what we can do. Lots of responsibility there.
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B
All right. Bad news for the Rockets. Also some bad news for the Miami Heat. Last week we found out that Tyler Herro was having surgery on his left foot slash ankle. Apparently he had an impingement during last season. Had an ankle injury during a workout that led to surgery. He's expected to miss eight weeks. So basically the first month and a half of the season, 12 to 14 games. People are speculating for Hero to miss with Miami. What do you think about this one, Tess?
- [14:34]
A
It's Norman Powell time.
- [14:37]
B
Yeah, it is.
- [14:39]
A
It is. Now looking back to last year, the Miami Heat were not a great offensive team. Even with Tyler Hero. They're 21st, first in the league. So not ideal. They're an incredible defensive team. Top 10. Now I look back to the Los Angeles Clippers season where Norman Powell was there without Kawhi Leonard to start the season. Kawhi didn't play until the year 2025 in January. And during that time the Clippers were pretty similar to what the Miami offense was the entire season. They were 23rd in offense. They're a couple points per 100 possessions, worse. But I think Norm can get them there. That's where he is awesome is the first few months of the season before he gets a banged up and similarly, he was part of a top five defense with the Clippers, an incredible defense. So here we are. He was the guy. I mean, they had no Kawai. They're running with Chris Dunn last year essentially as their point guard and he was able to put points on the board. The guard and how they get into things we just talked about. Fred Van Vliet will be interesting. Very, very, very interesting with this team. What do they do, Trey? What, what are their options really?
- [15:49]
B
They don't have options. I mean, Norm Powell is the guy and I think this means that Davion Mitchell is going to be a starter. At the beginning of the season, he was kind of the guy that was probably going to be the odd man out unless Spoelstra decided to go with a defense first lineup. I don't know. Norm Powell certainly starting should be the main perimeter option for the Heat. But if you're telling me he had an awesome season last year, I agree with you. But then you said that it worked hard and they got the Clippers up to the 23rd offense. That sucks, man. Yeah, that's bottom seven. I'm doing the math on that. And so that's not good. The only good part about this for Miami is a they're in the Eastern Conference. So even if Hero misses 15 games, they're not going to be so far behind the teams they're chasing that are going to be in the play and mix. I personally think they're around like the seventh to ninth seed. I don't really foresee them having a good season. Even if Hero was completely healthy, they lost Duncan Robinson and replaced him with Norm Powell. That's really the only change, I guess they drafted Yakachonas out of Illinois. Maybe he gets a little bit of a bigger look at the start of the season. But the other good thing for the Heat is that Tyler Herro is eligible for an extension October 1st three years, $150 million. So the heat might get a discount on his deal because Hero's been banged up a little the past couple of years. Last year he played 77 games. Prior to that, he's always missing 10 to 15, if not more. So maybe his price comes down, which is good for Miami in the long term. But they're screwed when it comes to the NBA cup if they don't have Tyler Herro throughout November. It's over cup wise for the Miami Heat. This is not as big of an injury as Fred Van Vliet, but it really is going to hurt the win total for Miami, I think going forward.
- [17:34]
A
Just from the NBA cup standings perspective.
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B
Or just, yeah, I'm only talking about the cup because that's going to be the main part of the season that Tyler Hero is missing. I don't know if I favored the Miami Heat to come out of whatever group they're in, but I'm just saying if they're missing their leading score, that's bad news. When the courts are their most colorful and their lights are the second brightest.
- [17:57]
A
Yeah, no doubt he was the guy. At the same time they were 20. What did I say? They're 21st in offense and I said the Clippers were 23rd. So that's bottom eight. I got to correct you, Trey. It's weird to hear when the teams are of 30. You never really add in the 30. So they're bottom eight. The Clippers got by with Norman Powell as the guy and as I said, they're playing with Kristan, so I think they could get by and they could be seen in, in the NBA cup finals. There's a chance. There's a chance. Look, it's. It's also Andrew Wiggins time. I, I know, I know, I know. We've all, we've all done this before, but will there be a little bit of a, an improvement here for Andrew Wiggins, knowing where he is for the full season, being here one more time, Maybe a little bit. I mean, it is Norman Powell time. That's what it is. I know that Miami Heat fans are looking at this roster and thinking, wow, this would be a great time for Terry Rozier to be who he was a few years ago. That would be awesome. But really, this is, this is the final year of Terry Rosier's contract. That's what Pat Riley is looking at when you're talking about money, about Tyler Hero and his extension possibility. Pat Riley's looking at the Terry Rosier contract and thinking the same thing. Can't wait till that's off the books because he just hasn't been the same guy. Whether it's the off court issues with the, the investigation going on with gambling or whatever's happening there, he is not close to the same guy. Otherwise he'd be starting on this team really without Tyler Hero there. But it is going to be Davion Mitchell who contributed a lot in the playoffs. So I, I think this team will be fine. Like you, like you said, they're, they're a playing team. There's no doubt about that. It's not going to be Bam at a bio that they rely on offensively. They just have to, they just have to get by and make it norm time and hopefully we'll see them in the play in the NBA Cup.
- [19:54]
B
Yeah. Stay tuned for all of our cup thoughts. We're going hard on the cup this year. We're only doing cup coverage. We're going to cut off NBA coverage from December 15th until after the trade deadline. Nothing exciting happens during that time. I'm kidding. But yeah, not great for the Heat to start the season. If you're telling me they got to rely on Bam's offensive prowess. Plus Wiggins and Terry Rozier. Not great. But yeah, segue time. None of those guys are going to be on the best players list, which you haven't seen. So feel free to debate me on this. I'm gonna share my screen here. You can go to Tier maker, you can search no dunks, and you can find this very template here. We're gonna go through all 30 teams. Like I said, I have picked the best player, who I think is the best player on all these teams. I arranged them alphabetically so we can go east and west all mixed up. Usually we choose one or the other. But even when you're doing it alphabetically, the first six teams are the Eastern Conference. I always think that's crazy. Like we don't get a Western Conference team until Dallas. We need a team in Bismarck, North Dakota, or something like that. Anyways, we'll start with the Atlanta Hawks. Their best player, it's Trey Young. He's beefing with Patrick Beverly. Last year, 24 points per game, three rebounds, almost 12 assists. For Trey led the league in assists. He shot 41% from the field, 34 from 3, 88 at the line. He made the all star team to his credit for his career. He's got one all NBA appearance, made the third team. He's a four time all star. So Tas, where do you think Trae Young is going to rank? And I should say the categories we're ranking these guys in are where we think they slot in amongst the best players in the league. So at the top of the table is the MVP table. These are the guys who are going to be getting MVP votes at the end of the season. Next level down the A tier that's all NBA. Followed by all star is our middle tier which you know, pretty good to still be an all star followed by a good starter is the D tier. And then our F tier is, as I titled it, in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. These are players who shouldn't be a team's best player, but they are. And I think we only have a handful of those kind of teams. But well done.
- [22:15]
A
That's.
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B
Yeah, they definitely exist. I didn't know tier maker would give me so many characters, but once it allowed it, I was like, I gotta roll with it. So where are you putting Trey Young here?
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A
Tas, Trey Young is an All Star and not one of those injury replacement type of All Stars like he's been in the past. This is it. This team is too good. There's too many good players around him to not be a good team. Now those good players each have a question mark right over their head. That's all I can see is a question mark on Kristaps Porzingis. Will he be healthy? There's a question mark on Jalen Johnson. It's been two years in a row where he's been injured, but he could have been the All Star last year. That being said, even if those guys are injured, I, I think they can even play a little bit smaller and have Nikhil Alexander Walker and Dyson Daniels on the floor beside Trey Young. They have backups in Anyeka Kongwu for those big men if they are injured. And yeah, I think Dyson Daniels has grown. I think Zachary Ric Sachet will get even better. So I think this is the year Trae Young says I'm leading this team. I think he's grown as a player. I don't care what Patrick Beverley has said. I think it was a little different a few years ago. There's no doubt that he tried to be more of the guy and only the guy. And that's why things kind of Fell out with Sean Collins to some degree, even Kevin Herder. But I think this is the year where he chose. I mean, he has chilled out. I shouldn't say. This is the year where he's giving everything to his teammates. He does do more of that. He did try on defense a little bit more. So I think he will get the credit for this team being good. And I think it has to be good with all those guys.
- [23:49]
B
Yeah, I think last year was probably Trey's most unselfish year. And like you're saying, he gave the best effort he ever has defensively. Got off the ball early. Especially when Jalen Johnson was still healthy. I couldn't see an all NBA season out of Trae Young. I'm expecting the Hawks to be better this year than they have in years past. And I feel like the Hawks record has been held against Trey Young. When it comes to all star voting, when it comes to all star selections, and certainly when it comes to all NBA, because the guy led the league in assists. Like I said, last season, he put up 2412 and barely got a sniff for all NBA. So he would definitely be at the end of the all NBA tier. But I think having him very high up in all stars is a perfect spot for him.
- [24:33]
A
Yeah, I found it very interesting going through these 30 teams and thinking as I was going through the A's and the B's or Eastern Conference teams, I was thinking, some guys have to make the all NBA team. Where are they? So as I got down through the 30 teams, that's when the all NBA sort of borderline end of the all NBA list guys entered my brain and I thought, well, we need 15 players to make these all NBA teams. There's three of them. So it's like your. Your guys will get to later like your Pascal C. Ackams. I mean, maybe he's been there before, you know, those type of guys. And Trey Young could be one of those guys.
- [25:10]
B
Yeah, I totally agree. Got a good question here from Gustavo and the Stream team. Would you rank Trae Young ahead of Patrick Beverley on this list?
- [25:20]
A
Yeah. It's over for Patrick Beverly. As Trey Young said. He said, thank you for your service. It's been great. You're done. I mean, he's done, you're done. It's over.
- [25:34]
B
Yeah, I think Patrick, that was that. What a funny beef to have. Trey Young versus Patrick Beverly. I do think Patrick Beverly. Beverly averaged like 37 a game in high school. But guess what? He's an NBA player. He was probably pretty solid when he was in high school Illinois, boy. So I got to represent a little bit for him. But definitely he would not be the best player on his team. He never was the best player on his team. Trey Young is.
- [25:56]
A
Yes. Let me ask Trey. Yeah. Do you think there's, there's somewhere in the NBA that says like in February or March, hey, we might play the Atlanta Hawks. Patrick Beverly is available. If we see those Hawks in the playoffs, we want that guy on a roster. And then they sign him to a contract just, just to get under Trey skin as much as possible.
- [26:20]
B
It's not out of the realm of possibility. Patrick Beverly loves to switch teams late in the season. He did it for the Bulls for sure. They went 14, 9 with him in. I can't believe I remember that. They did it with the Milwaukee Bucks. He's been out of the league now for what, a season? Maybe a season and a half. Maybe even more than that.
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A
No, just one. Just one. It's only been just one. But I don't think he comes back even to start the season.
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B
No, no, definitely not.
- [26:45]
A
He finished off like you said with the Milwaukee Bucks where he threw that ball into the crowd in the playoffs again. Oh, right, the Indiana Pacers. And he was literally suspended for it for the following year, which he didn't play in the NBA for. He went to Israel and played. And so he's been gone for a full season. But I think he's. He's old. Yeah, you're right.
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B
He'd be suspended right when he comes back.
- [27:09]
A
Oh, that's a good call because I.
- [27:10]
B
Think they suspended him for throwing the ball at the fan. But that he hasn't played an NBA game since, that would be a hilarious late season storyline. I hope it happens. Our next player to be ranked, Jalen Brown, who is the Celtics best player this season with the injury to Jason Tatum last year, Jaylen Brown went for 22 a game with six rebounds and five assists. Shot 46 from the field, 32 from 3, 76 at the line. He made his third straight All Star team, his fourth overall, and he has one All NBA appearance to on his resume so far. So where are you opening the bidding on Jalen Brown?
- [27:48]
A
This feels a little bonkers, but I'm putting him as a solid starter.
- [27:53]
B
What?
- [27:54]
A
Yeah, yeah. I'm not throwing him in. Obviously he's a borderline all star. Like you said, he made it freaking last year. But these are the reasons why I think he will just be on this solid starter list. No Jason Tatum to be that number one option beside him. And we saw in the playoffs against the New York Knicks when Tatum went out, Jalen Brown was up and down. He literally wasn't great. He was also great. So he. He's definitely capable. But the other thing that worries about me without Tatum, is his injury. He had a knee injury throughout the postseason. That seemed to bother him a little bit. Now, maybe it's something that just goes away with a few months off, but I'm not so sure. In the Eastern Conference, where this is. This is the year. So it sounds kind of stupid that I'm saying that he's just a solid star. This is the year for them to bump up and for it to be on his shoulders along with Peyton Pritchard and Derek White. But I literally. I think.
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B
I don't.
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A
I just don't think he's going to make the top 16American All Stars. As the All Star Game breaks down, there's 16Americans and there's eight Europeans or slash, world players. I shouldn't call them all Europeans. I think Shea will be on there, but I don't know if he's top 16. Is he top 16?
- [29:11]
B
Wow. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's a great point. I hadn't factored in the fact that he's not just getting Eastern Conference votes. He has to be One of the 16 best Americans.
- [29:20]
A
Yeah. I don't even know how that's going to work. It's stupid. They should just say, hey, you're an All Star. You're one of the 24 best players. And so he is, I guess, right?
- [29:31]
B
Yeah. I mean, he's got to be in the All Star. For me, he's made it three straight times, and now he gets as many shots as he wants. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Jalen Brown averages like 27 a game this year.
- [29:43]
A
It's possible. Yeah. I just wonder. I just wonder about the knee.
- [29:47]
B
Yeah. That is worrying.
- [29:49]
A
That's. Maybe that's me speculating, but it is one of those things that was bothering him a little bit, and he tried to sit out to deal with it. Now, again, maybe it's fine if you're sitting in May, June, July, August, September. So I could be wrong.
- [30:05]
B
Yeah, we'll see. Well, I gotta put. I gotta put him. I'll put him behind Trey Young. But the fact that he's made three straight All Stars and has even more opportunity this year, maybe we can change it when we get later into the. To the episode here, but, man, you're down on Jaylen Brown. Down with Brown. I can't believe it.
- [30:22]
A
Well, I just, I. Yeah, yeah. This whole stupid, hey, we're having 16Americans. I mean, that didn't really play into my, into my decision. But this Eastern Conference, there are lots of good players. Like, there will be a lot of good players. The Celtics still have to be good. And that's my question. Will they, will they be above.500? They should be hard to know. Yeah.
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B
This is a, an unknown looking team. They're going to be starting to Mishkita. Maybe he'll be their best player.
- [30:52]
A
Yeah. What's their front line? Yeah, that's, that's a fair question.
- [30:56]
B
Yeah. We shall see. Our next best player on the list, it's the Brooklyn Nets and It's Michael Porter Jr. I think Michael Porter Jr. Is the best player on the Brooklyn Nets this season. He averaged 18 a game with the Nuggets last year. Seven rebounds, two assists. I can't believe. Two assists, that's higher than I would have anticipated. But 50 from the field. 40 from three. 77 at the free throw line. Zero accolades though from Michael Porter Jr. I couldn't believe he didn't even make second team. All rookie to us, huh? I think, I think this is a one eyed man.
- [31:31]
A
Yeah. In the land of the blind. Yes, yes. One eyed man is king. This is Michael Port Jr. It was funny. Skeets made the thumbnail for this show and he first had Jeremy Grant in there.
- [31:43]
B
Yeah.
- [31:44]
A
Part of the thumbnail. And I asked, is Jeremy Grant the best player on the Portland Trailblazers discussed to our stream team? Then he inserted Michael Porter Jr. In there and I thought, well, it's not a question if he is the best player on the Brooklyn Nets. Like, no, I guess. I mean, is Nick Claxton the best player? I don't know. It's podcast season, man. It's podcast season for Michael Porter Jr. That's what this is all about. Yeah.
- [32:08]
B
He's definitely enjoying being the number one guy. He's going to shoot the ball all the time. He's going to appear on a lot of podcasts. But like, it's impossible to pick a best player for the Nets. Is it Cam Thomas? He might lead the team in scoring.
- [32:20]
A
Yeah.
- [32:21]
B
I don't know. But that's why this tier exists.
- [32:25]
A
Yes.
- [32:25]
B
For teams like the Nets that don't necessarily have a best player for the future yet.
- [32:31]
A
Yeah. What a role change this is for Michael Porter Jr going from, you know, the third or fourth best player with the Nuggets to this now In a role that Cam Johnson had last year. And he was, he was a baller. Cam Johnson was awesome. Now he's on the Denver Nuggets as taking Michael Porter Jr's role. Cam Johnson, I, I think he would be in a good starter role for me if he was back on the Brooklyn Nets. He is a good starter, But Michael Porter Jr. I don't know. I mean, he could shut us up. I guess. He, he could be a good starter, I guess.
- [33:04]
B
Yeah, he is a good starter for sure. Like, I kind of think that Michael Porter Jr. Has become underrated just because of the size and the shooting that he brings. He can be a decent rebounder though. He's very inconsistent at that. Never passes the ball like I was alluding to earlier. But you don't want him to be your best player, which is why I had to create the tier.
- [33:27]
A
We'll have some more in there. We'll speak some more.
- [33:30]
B
Yeah, yeah, exactly. We'll definitely squeeze some more. How about this though? Charlotte Hornets their best player. I picked LaMelo Ball, 25 a game last year. 5 rebounds, 7 assists in just 47 games. He shot 41 from the field, 34 from 3, 84 at the line. He is a one time All Star, but that was the last time he was healthy. Basically back in 21, 22. So I don't know, I don't know really where to put Lamelo on this list.
- [33:58]
A
It's always weird when a guy doesn't play a lot of basketball, how he should be categorized. I think he has to be a good starter. You said that he hasn't made an all star game since he was last healthy. So that's three seasons he hasn't made it. But last year the fans wanted him so bad he led Eastern Conference guard voting and so he was fun to watch. He put up fricking a lot of points doing it. I know the new Charlotte Hornet, Colin Sexton has been talking to him about being more of a leader and, and being responsible. That's what the Charlotte observer is reporting, that he's, he's hanging out with LaMelo Ball and saying, come on man, you gotta, you gotta be that guy. He's never been that guy. He wasn't that guy when he played in Australia. And so that's why there was hesitancy to make him a number one player. So I, I just don't see him, I just don't see him making the All Star game now. You know, there's a chance I guess in the Eastern Conference if they're winning games if they have. If they have a different locker room. Like if. If Charles Lee is getting through to these players. But it's. Yeah, I'm. I'm leaning the other way. I'm leaning old LaMelo Ball where we don't see him playing a ton.
- [35:15]
B
Yeah, I think it's fine to put him as a good starter because he is a talented dude and he will be fun to watch if he ever makes it back to an all star game. But between the injury concerns and the Hornets being one of the worst teams in the league, I don't foresee that being the case. So we can throw them in. Great starter. Fine with me.
- [35:36]
A
I was fooled 12 months ago. Trey. I said LaMelo Ball is wearing ankle braces for the first time in his career.
- [35:43]
B
Huh.
- [35:44]
A
That's something he learned from Steph Curry apparently last year. And I thought he'd be healthy and he played half the season and it was a strange season even for his injuries. He was in and out of the lineup. It was a real. He's playing once, misses twice. He's coming back two steps forward and then one step back all the time. So I don't know. That to me was extremely strange how he wasn't injured for a long period of time. I just don't know if that'll. That'll ever change.
- [36:12]
B
Yeah, he's had a lot of bad luck because I feel like a lot of his ankle injuries have been from stepping on fans feet. Like going into the first row and stepping on just a random dude's foot and then suddenly you're out for 15 games. But that has been the case and the dude's got skinny legs so maybe just needs to strengthen up a little bit and stick with it with the ankle braces. And I think no more of those.
- [36:36]
A
No more of those. One leg fades as you made a great short last year. Yeah. Shoot off two legs and don't fall backwards.
- [36:44]
B
And yeah, he could also try to play winning basketball. That would be. That would definitely help the cause for his all star chances and for the Hornets to chances another guy. I don't know what to do with this one. Taz, I'm gonna let you take the reins because it's the Chicago Bulls. I picked Josh Giddey as their best player. I see a lot of people in the stream team are saying Kobe White, fair enough. I hope that it's Matas Bouzelis, but I don't think that's the case yet. So I went with Giddy. He signed the big contract with the Bulls for four years for 100 million last season. 14 points per game, eight rebounds, seven assists. Though the last third of the season, he was basically a 20 point triple double for the year. Giddy shot 47 from the field, 38 from three. That was much improved. And 78 at the free throw line. So what are you doing with Josh Giddy Task? Tell me where to put this guy.
- [37:34]
A
Yeah, he was under the same, same issue when I was looking at this team. Vouch has to be included in the conversation. I mean he scores a lot of. But yeah, I think they're all classified as the same thing anyway. It's a solid starter.
- [37:49]
B
I think they're starters. Okay, well, thank you. Cause I mean like, look, I'm not. Everybody knows I'm down on Giddy. I think he could actually end up anywhere. I think you're right. He is a solid starter. He's a, he's a good player. He even started for a Thunder team that won 60 games. And when he got even more opportunity after the Levine trade last year, he was pretty good. It's not out of the realm of feasibility that Giddy puts up massive numbers and gets some all star snub conversations. But also, I really don't think you want Josh Giddy to be your best player. But guess what? He is. So I don't know, maybe we split the difference here. If you want him in good starter, I can live with that.
- [38:28]
A
Yeah, he could be at the end of a good starter at the end.
- [38:31]
B
Okay.
- [38:32]
A
This ends up being, you know, we got a Lamello ball beside him. Yeah.
- [38:37]
B
Okay. That's fair. Yeah. All right, good stuff. Our next player to rank from the Cleveland Cavaliers, Donovan Mitchell. 24 points per game, five rebounds, five assists. Last year, 44 from the field, 37 from 382 at the line. He finished fifth in MVP voting after an awesome season from Cleveland. He was first team All NBA, made the All Star team. He's made two All NBA teams in his career, six All Star games. So Donovan Mitchell, I do believe will be our highest ranking guy thus far. Where do you like him, Tess?
- [39:10]
A
Absolutely. Throw him at that MVP table. I. I think he belongs in the conversation. You said he was fifth last year. There's no Boston Celtics around, so there's no Jason Tatum at this MVP table this year. The Cleveland Cavaliers are good at winning regular season basketball games. What happens in the playoffs is a huge question mark. But I think Donovan Mitchell should and will get the credit for a year. I think, you know, we're going to see an Improved Evan Mobley, which I think Mitchell will benefit from. This team is just going to win close to 60 games. How can he not be at that table? Unless you're, I don't know, somehow miraculously giving it to Garland or Mobley. I think he'll be the one who gets in there.
- [39:53]
B
Yeah, maybe if Mobley takes a massive step forward, he becomes the best player on the Cavs this year and then it's not Mitchell. Maybe then he doesn't end up at the MVP table. But I think even in that case, he would settle in at all NBA because I assume the Cavs are going to be one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference. So the fact that he finished top five last year, the Cavs are basically bringing everybody back outside of tiger realm. I'm happy putting him in the MVP table. Our first guy to take a seat. You like to be the first guy to show up at a dinner test. I know the answer is no. I know the answer is no.
- [40:28]
A
Yeah, not really. No. I wanna, I wanna be part of the, the camaraderie, you know, I don't want to be alone.
- [40:36]
B
Yeah, that's true. It's so true. But it's good to have somebody show up on time. Get the reservation. Yeah, we're all sitting here, there should be like six of us. And it's gonna be a good time.
- [40:45]
A
Hey, yeah.
- [40:46]
B
The Western Conference. Ever heard of it? Oh yeah, the Western Conference. The Dallas Mavericks. I chose Anthony Davis as their best player. 25 points per game, 12 rebounds, 4 assists. Last year between the Lakers and the Mavericks, 52 from the field, 28 from 3. 78% at the line in only 51 games for Anthony Davis, he did make the all star team. He has made five all NBA teams in his career, including four first teams. And Anthony Davis, I don't know if I would have picked this task. He's a 10 time all star. He's already made 10 all star games in his career. So Anthony Davis, where you got this guy.
- [41:23]
A
When you just said 10 all stars. I have to have him as an all star. I mean when he is not seriously hurt, which happens most of the time because he's a 10 time All Star. As you said, Trey, I'm throwing him there. I assume that, yeah, that's where, that's where I would put him. I, I totally agree with you. 10 freaking all star appearances is wild. When he was named to the top 75 team and they said that, well, he was eight at the time, an eight time All Star, I thought, whoa, dude, even then that was a lot. But it just keeps growing and growing. And yes, he is their best player because Kyrie's out. So it's not even a really a discussion where. Where would you put him?
- [42:01]
B
I think the question is, is he between all NBA and all star games played is an issue for making all NBA teams with Anthony Davis. He also won't have a setup man like he's had in the past with LeBron there because it's D' Angelo Russell as the point guard. Maybe Cooper Flagg is awesome and is a great setup man for AD but I think it's more likely this season that he ends up on the all star team than in the all NBA discussion.
- [42:29]
A
Right? Yeah. It's such a mysterious team because I feel like their ceiling can be fairly high. He's got that chemistry with d' Angelo Russell, their new starting point guard. Cooper Flag obviously is going to be freaking good. Derek Lively is going to play basketball again. I think he's a super talented player. So they have so many good options. It is the west though. But yeah, you're right. I mean it could be. He could literally be an all NBA player. But I think all star is. There's a solid pick that I feel like you can't go wrong with that one.
- [42:59]
B
Yeah, I think that's good. Would you have him. I put him ahead of Trey Young and Jalen Brown just because I feel like AD when he plays is like a guaranteed all Star. The other two are more qualified question marks. Yeah. So I think that's all right. Yeah.
- [43:13]
A
Yeah. It's a good debate between him and Trey, but sure. Yeah.
- [43:18]
B
All right, Next one should be pretty easy. The Denver Nuggets. Nicole Jokic is their best player. Last year he averaged 30 points per game, 13 rebounds and 10 assists while shooting 58 from the field, 42 from 3 and 80% at the free throw line. For all of his exploits, he finished second in MVP voting. First team all NBA. He's an all star. He's a three time mvp. He's a seven time all NBA player. Five of those on the first team and he is a seven time all star. He is sitting at the MVP table.
- [43:50]
A
Absolutely. And I know people are here in the stream team. I got to go back with Tom Fabry saying Donovan Mitchell, I mean the. There's other guys like Jokic and, and Shea and, and Giannis. I get it. I get it. But the table is, you know, we always debate how many seats there are. It's bigger than you think.
- [44:16]
B
Bigger than you think. Yeah, there's five players on the ballot, so we have to have at least five people at the table. But nobody wants to be the fifth wheel, so we have to have at least six. I feel like at the MVP table, Jokic is an easy ad at mvp. Maybe we'll talk a little bit more about him later when we've added some other dudes to the MVP table that we know are going to be there and we can talk about who's the best player because I've seen people in the Stream team say Jokic is the world's best player. Jj, I do agree with you. We'll talk about it a little bit later. All right, next we're back to the Eastern Conference. It's the Detroit Pistons and Cade Cunningham is their best player. 26 points per game, six rebounds, nine assists. Last year shot 47 from the field, 36 from three and 85% the line. He made third team All NBA, made his first All Star game and that was the first time actually for both of those honors for Cade Cunningham. He also made me look like a complete fool because I thought this guy sucked. And guess what? He's actually really, really good. So task, where are you putting Cade Cunningham?
- [45:17]
A
What an interesting season with Detroit coming up because this team was like, you know, Cade was good, but this team was pretty much a 500 team until they got Dennis Schroeder at the All Star game. Then they turned it up. They got way better. They became a 44 win team. And that's so curious without him, who went to Sacramento without Malik Beasley who currently is unsigned but he could come back to Detroit? I guess they've replaced him with Duncan Robinson and Caris Lavert is there to replace Dennis Schroeder. Very interesting. I think there's no question that he is easily an all star. Is he an all NBA player? Yeah, he's one of those borderline guys that it could happen again and that would make sense to me. I know he was part of the MVP freaking conversation last year. So yeah, he's one of those borderline all NBA players to me. All Star lock for sure.
- [46:14]
B
It wouldn't surprise me to see the Pistons take a slight step back this year. Like you mentioned, the players they lost, the players they brought in, maybe it's a wash, maybe they got a little worse, maybe it clicks and they got a little better. But about the same. But they won 30 more games last year than they won in the 2324 season. So it wouldn't be surprising to see them shoot up, then level out a little bit, then have another bit of an improvement. But I still do think Kate is going to make all NBA this season. He had an argument to make second team. Like you're saying he got MVP votes last season and with getting Jay, with getting Ivy back, I don't think he's going to be worse this year. So I'm happy with Cade as an all NBA guy.
- [46:57]
A
Yeah, I keep overlooking Jaden Ivy's return who's I think going to be really solid for them. He is a rock. I love Jaden Ivy. So yeah, you're right. I'm comfortable putting him at the all NBA spot.
- [47:11]
B
All right, sounds good. Back to the Western Conference. The Golden State warriors, their best player. It's still Stephen Curry. Still the best American player according to a recent ESPN survey. Last year Steph Curry went for 25 points per game, 4 rebounds and 6 assists while shooting 45, 40 and 93 across the line. Second team All NBA for Steph Curry made the all star team. No duh. Two time MV NBA MVP 11 times on the All NBA team. Only four first teams though. Honestly, crazy that only four first teams but 11 time All Star as well for Steph Curry. I think the question here is do you put him at the MVP table? Because, because it's been a while since Steph has actually finished super high in MVP voting.
- [47:57]
A
Yeah, that's a great question. I did automatically. I, I do think that the warriors are, are being the 97, 98 Bulls this season and saying this is the final season and I think they're coming together here in, in the training camp area. Training camp time of the season when you know, Dre and, and Jimmy Butler are practicing together. I think they're going to be all business from the get go. So this team is going to be up there in Western Conference standings. I don't see how you, you do you think so? Yeah, I think so. I know it's a freaking odd question right now. They have nine guys on their team.
- [48:38]
B
They have nine guys. They can't even run a full practice right now.
- [48:43]
A
But all of a sudden whenever this Kaminga thing happens, bam. Here comes our man Al Horford. Bam. Here comes our man Seth Curry. Bam. They're other old ass guys now. I, I think others. I think Steph was going to get all the credit basically. Even though, you know, they are signed for two years. I think they, they, they're ready to get this going after the way last year started. Yeah, I'm, I'm putting them up there. Obviously he's an all NBA player, but I would throw him in that MVP category.
- [49:13]
B
Yeah, I don't know. Last year, ninth in MVP voting. He hasn't finished top five since 2021. Obviously hasn't won it since 2016. I don't think Steph Curry is ever going to win another mvp. And I don't think the warriors are going to have a great regular season record. I think they're going to be a tough playoff team, assuming Steph, Jimmy and Draymond are all healthy in April and May. But I think the regular season is going to be a little bit more of a struggle for Golden State with the question marks of the team's health and the depth that they're going to have. I would lean towards all NBA. And I definitely know we'll be talking about Stephen Curry as an MVP candidate because he always has a stretch of the season where he looks like one of the best players in the league. Still looks like a top three guy when he's shooting 50% from three rather than just a measly 40%. But I just don't foresee him finishing top five in MVP anymore.
- [50:08]
A
I hear it when you said that it's been since 2021 that obviously, you know, history tells the story. I'm totally fine putting them in all NBA. That being said, I do think just like last year when my man DE Anthony Melton was running the show to start the season and they look like a different team with him and Buddy healed, I think in the same light, they're going to start the season way better knowing who they are. But listen, there's. There's only so much room at the MVP table. I think you'll be part of the conversation. But all NBA is cool with me.
- [50:45]
B
You know, we'll move chairs around. Like if stuff shows up and he wants to sit down at the MVP table, people will make room for him. He's a great guy to have at a dinner party. He's got these stories. He just went to the U.S. open. You know, the guy loves tennis now, loves golf. He's just good at everything. I wonder what that guy's gonna do with his post NBA career. Like go to the Senior PGA Tour or something like that. That'd be pretty cool.
- [51:06]
A
That's a great question. Yeah, you brought up the whether or not he plays on the three all 3 by 3.3x3. That's what you call it, right? In the Olympics.
- [51:16]
B
Yeah. You can't call it three on three.
- [51:17]
A
You gotta say the X. Yeah. But yes, speaking of Sitting in different places. Like sitting at a chair at the MVP table. I was sitting on the toilet doing our no dunk shows last year when Steph Curry was cooking and it looked like he was part of that MVP table. It was. It was an odd season for them. Like to me, it feels like this is it. We got to do this right here, right now. So I think Jimmy is taken last year's season where he wasn't himself at all with the Miami Heat for the first couple of years or a couple of months, I should say wasn't close to himself. I think him and Dre are getting. Getting busy. This team's going to win more games than people expect.
- [51:58]
B
Should be interesting to see our next team. We talked about him a lot already. Test is the Houston Rockets. I picked Shengun as their best player. You can tell me it's Kevin Durant for sure, but he hasn't yet played a game for the Rockets. It's all photoshops when it comes to Kevin Durant. So I am going with Shengun had an awesome Euro basket. And also last season he was really good for the Rockets. 19 points per game, 10 rebounds, five assists. 50% from the field, 23 from three. 70% at the line. Made his first All Star team. Where you got Shangon.
- [52:29]
A
You're right. Shangun is their most important player. Whether or not Kevin Durant's their best player. I think Shangon is so key. We already talked about if he can replace a little bit of what Fred gave them playmaking. And just in terms of bringing that thing together, I think he's a lock for an All Star forever. I think this is it. I mean, he's not. He's. He's not going back to just a starter and maybe good. He's going to be an all Star for a long time, I think. Yeah, the all NBA question is a fair question. I think you could easily put him there too because this team should be good enough to have one guy make the all NBA team from their roster. And yes. Yeah. Whether or not it's him or Durant, that's what it comes down to really. But I'm comfortable putting him in all NBA.
- [53:21]
B
Oh, all right. I could. I. Well, I'll listen to an all NBA case for Alper and Shen Goon because I do think the Rockets are still going to be good despite the loss of Fred Van Vliet. This maybe even makes Sengun's baby Jokic sort of style of play more important for the Rockets. And Ime Udoka should really lean into that using him as a playmaking hub. And Jokic, like with the way players can fly around him, they need his ball handling and creation that we saw for the Turkish national team. That's what they need in Houston now that Fred Van Vliet is going to be missing at least a humongous chunk of the season. So I'm happy to hear you say Sengun is the best dude for the Rockets and I think it's worthy to put him up there for the all NBA team. He could have made it last year, definitely with the Rockets taking such a massive step forward. But he did get that all star nod. So you know he got some sort of honor last year. Maybe it's a bigger one this year.
- [54:18]
A
Yeah. And he was the biggest snub from those all NBA teams. Yeah, he was 16th of the best 15 teams. Roberto Aguilar reminding me of that. And I just checked just to confirm that is totally correct. He was close. He was the 16th best NBA player last year, but I guess he was top six non American. I don't know. I just already hate this idea. They screwed up with this USA versus World voting thing.
- [54:52]
B
That's gonna be confusing when we get to all star time because you know we're gonna default into Eastern and Western Conference. But I guess we're gonna just have to wait for the NBA to say what the rules and regulations are weird in the Eastern Conference. A world player here, Tas. I picked Pascal Siakam as the best player for the Pacers considering Tyrese Halliburton's Achilles injury in game seven of the final. So Siakam is the guy. 20 points per game, seven rebounds, three assists. Last year shot 52, 39 and 73 from the field. Three point and free throw line respectively. Siakam did make the All Star team last year, made all NBA twice playing with Toronto and is a three time all Star for his NBA career. I think he's probably all star tier here. But if you want to pitch me on all NBA, I'd listen. We're saying good. We're. We're Siakam lovers here on no dunks.
- [55:43]
A
Yeah. I wish I could. I wish I could pitch hard for all NBA. I was. I was doing the math. Unfortunately I was. Is he a top 15 player in this league? He could be, but he hasn't made one since 21, 22. I think he needs somebody beside him who is awesome to actually make it to all NBA. So that's why I would just put him as an all Star because I'm a little worried about even though the Pacers are going to be freaking good, they're gonna be, they're gonna be solid. I don't know if they have enough capability to bring him, you know, way above.500 and I think that will factor in a little bit in All Star or excuse me, All NBA voting.
- [56:29]
B
Yeah, he thrives with the playmaker. He's really good without a playmaker. So we'll see what the loss of Halliburton does for Siakam. I still pick the Pacers as the most overachieving team in the league this year on one of our earlier podcasts. So I still think the Pacers will survive, but it's going to be on Nemhard to get Siakam the easy baskets that Siakam feasts on, especially in the open court. But I still think at the very least an All Star like player we've only gone through 12 teams tests is going to be a 9,000 minute podcast. But let's keep moving the LA Clippers Look, Kawhi Leonard is their best player. Kawhi Leonard is the best player on the LA Clippers, but a he rarely plays and B his contract might end up being voided because of some tree planting shenanigans. I think that probably James Harden is the guy you pick as the best player. You could tell me Zubots if you wanted but I got Harden. So I think Kawhi and Harden probably end up on the same level here. But last year in just 37 games Kawhi went for 22, 6 and 3, 50, 41 and 81 was his slash lines. He's a six time All NBA player, three times on the first team, six times as an All Star. Where you got Kawhi Leonard?
- [57:41]
A
Oh, he doesn't fit. He doesn't fit into this tier. Especially because I don't even know if he starts the season. I mean he's healthy enough, he's fine, but he didn't last year and that was probably the best way to go about making sure he was healthy for the playoffs. He didn't play until January and it worked out. But he hasn't been an All Star much. He's been an All Star much recently, I should say. He's only got one appearance in his last four years. And yeah, maybe I'm down on it because of what's going on with the Clippers. They're gonna get hit hard. But I do agree like cool. Kawhi and James Harden are sort of in that same category. They're they're fading from the All Star status, even though you watch him in the postseason and he can literally beat the Denver Nuggets like he did game two. He was freaking awesome in that series. They went to seven games, but it doesn't fit in an 82 regular season game. Rank in here.
- [58:38]
B
To me, yeah, there are three players on this list that deserve their own tier. Everybody can name them off the top of their heads, and you just don't know where to put them. It's Kawhi, it's Embiid, and it's Zion Williamson. When they play, they're three of the top 10 players in the NBA, but they play 30 to 40 games a season. So where do you rank them? I'm fine putting Kawhi at the very end of the All Star tier here because like we're saying, if it's not Kawhi, I think you could sub in James Harden as a guy who is in the All Star conversation for a Clippers team that at the very least is going to be good and competitive. Same way Harden made the All Star team last year. It's like, your team is good. You deserve an All Star. It'll be one of those two guys. If Kawhi plays enough, it'll be him. If Harden. If Kawhi doesn't, or if he somehow ends up on another team or has to take some classes at a nature center, it would be James Harden. So this is where you're living, Kawhi Leonard?
- [59:32]
A
Yeah, I guess I'm fine. I mean, he's getting old. You know, for a guy who's always injured, he is 34 and so I wonder. Yeah. If they get him going from the get go, that obviously gives him a better case along with James Harden. As you said, there's got to be a 1 player from this team. Norman Powell ain't making it like he almost did last year was super duper close. I guess it could be Zubots, actually, because he's so awesome. Yeah, so there's that. There's that chance. But yeah, there's. I think there's just the goodest chance of one of them making it as not making it. And it could be. Could be the Zube.
- [60:11]
B
Could be the Zube, as they say. Hey, must be the Zube, the Los Angeles one guy.
- [60:17]
A
Don't worry. I know we were super long. We always go super long. And that's okay. I just. I want to throw in LaMelo Ball into that guy. Who. Who the hell. Where the hell is a category for. For this guy along with your injured guys? I mean, yeah, it's just one of those things.
- [60:31]
B
If they play dot dot dot maybe would be the category name for that one.
- [60:36]
A
Okay.
- [60:36]
B
It's just like definitely Lamelo. He's on the Mount Rushmore of that for right now along with those other three guys. Los Angeles Lakers is our next team to discuss. And for the first time ever, LeBron James is not the best player on his team. It's Luka doncic. Last year, 28, 8 and 8 and only 50 games between the Mavericks and the Lakers. Remember when Luca Donches was on the Mavericks for the first time since his rookie year? Luca was not an all NBA first teamer or, or an all star. That's because he only played 50 games. But when he has played, Luka is one of the best players in the league. Five time all NBA, five first teams, five all star appearances as well. He also was on the COVID of Men's Health magazine. He skips breakfast now task. So Luka Doncic is going in the MVP tier. It's just a matter of where do you put him? Ahead of Jokic, Behind Jokic, Ahead of Mitchell. Behind Mitchell. What you got?
- [61:30]
A
Ah, that is a great, great call. Number one. I think this don't eat breakfast thing is over. That was a, an off season thing. You need to eat breakfast. Dude. I'm not to be a Lee Ellis about things, but I think when you're playing like during the, during the off season and you're just getting your workout in, you want to get cut as much as possible. Yeah, fine. But not during the regular season. He's definitely behind Jokic. Okay. No question, no question. Put, we put him above Mitchell. I'm, I'm a little feisty when it comes to Luca as the mvp. I do it well, not every year. Last year, I think was the first year I picked him as mvp. It didn't freaking happen obviously. So I, even though I want to stick him at the end of the table, just, just, just make sure that chair fits. We got, we got room for one more. It's a little good. No, I think, I think he belongs ahead of Donovan Mitchell in this conversation right now.
- [62:29]
B
Yeah, he's going to have way better numbers than Mitchell. Well, you know, a big part of the reason the Cavs had success last season was Mitchell taking a little bit of a step back. That meant his scoring and his assists went down, but that was better for the team. Luca is going to, you know, challenge for the league lead in scoring with Shea Gilgis Alexander. I did think it Was hilarious though that there was reports that the Lakers saw how well Luka played at Eurobasket and they're like, okay, now we're comfortable building around this guy, huh? It was pretty good even when he wasn't in the best shape of his life and was playing through an injury. So yeah, Luka Doncic, you're at the MVP table and you will be for, I don't know, as many seasons as you are healthy enough to play 65 plus games. The Memphis Grizzlies are our next team. I chose John Moran as their best player. You can tell me It's Jaren Jackson Jr. But I think the Grizzlies will be at their best when John Morant is at his best. Kind of a weird year for Morant last year. 23 a game, four rebounds, seven assists. Though he was much better after Taylor Jenkins was dismissed and Thomas Isolo was the head coach for the Grizzlies. Jaws. A one time all NBA player, two time all Star. Where would you put John Morant? Test?
- [63:46]
A
It's a great question. I definitely think Jaren Jackson is there best player. But like you're saying as Jagos the Memphis Grizzlies go, he is extremely important to this team. So after last year I think I would just throw him at solid starter. Which sounds just weird for John Morant, but is he gonna play enough is all part of that question. So I'm comfortable throwing him at the end of the All Stars. But I think with the Memphis grizzlies, Jaren Jackson Jr. Is going to be the guy who gets the label or gets thrown into the All Star game before John Morant. So that's why I have him at this solid starter spot.
- [64:30]
B
Look, you might be right. The last time John Morant made an all star game was 2023. Part of that is due to injuries and suspension, but it's still been three years. Like when I think of John Morant, I definitely don't think of him as just a good, a good starter. But yeah, I mean I think that's kind of fair for right now. We could look like fools at the end of the season or maybe halfway through. But you know, Ja was part of the problem last year for Memphis and I think his beefing with Taylor Jenkins is the reason that he was let go. So yeah, good starter, but I'm hoping for a bounce back season to for John Morant because I like watching that guy play and when he's at his best, he's awesome.
- [65:10]
A
Yeah, it's a totally up to him as Far as how committed he is to the Tuamas is a low era of this team and just being in that locker room and getting things going because I think Jaren Jackson Jr. Is not going anywhere. He's just going to be super good for a long time. This Grizzlies so interesting in terms of getting rid of Desmond Bain and and starting this new era without really breaking it up. So yeah, there's responsibility on John Moran's shoulders here. It's a little. It's a little lamello ish, you know, like are you going to bring this locker room together? You are obviously super duper talented. So yeah, he is borderline. It could could be an All Star but I threw him there just because Jaren Jackson Jr. Season was so freaking good last year and he looks like to me as a guy who, who ain't going nowhere as far as this NBA goes and All Star appearances go.
- [66:09]
B
You're right. Maybe I should have chose Jaren Jackson Jr. He got a lot better last season going and getting buckets on his own and he's obviously a great defensive player. I also like what Connor said here in the stream team job behind Kawhi is the right choice. Same risk, worse reward. That's absolutely right. So you talked me into a test. John Morant, he's a good starter. Man that was that guy had a chance to be the best American player of his generation. So did Zion Williamson. Has not yet happened. Here's a substitution I had to make yesterday after the Tyler Hero news. It would be Tyler Hero as the best player for the Miami Heat. I think, I don't know. It's a toss up between him and the guy I ended up choosing Bam out of bio last year. 18 a game, 10 rebounds, 4 assists for Bamboo. He is a three time All Star but didn't make it last year where you got Bam.
- [66:58]
A
Oh yeah. This one was so tough. It's feels odd excluding him from the All Stars but I have him as a solid starter. Especially because Tyler Hero is out for a decent amount of time here and I think the Heat will be will be fine considering they're in the Eastern Conference. So there's a chance he makes the All Star game. There's. He is more just of a play with incredible players and they'll make you better type of guy. He is very, very important to teams defensively but it's hard to pick him as an All Star unless number one your team is really good around you and just because of his offensive liabilities a little bit. He just can't be relied on as a score, so I have him as a solid starter. What do you got about?
- [67:54]
B
I think that's right. I the borderline All Star is probably true as well, but I'm down on the Heat in general. I think Bam had a disappointing season at least through the first half last year. I know he improved as the year went on, but he's not a super reliable offensive player. He is a great defensive player, brings a lot of switchability to the Heat, which is what their identity is built on. But I think that makes it tough to be an All Star. You know, there's not going to be a ton of just defense first players, especially if we're giving eight slots to the world, which maybe cuts into Bams as well. So I think having him as a solid starter is pretty good. Another guy, though, we're going to be adding, I'm sure, to the MVP table. It's the Milwaukee Bucks. Giannis Antetokounmpo is their best player. 30 a game, 12 rebounds, seven assists. Last year he finished third in MVP voting. He was first team All NBA, made the All Star team. He's won two MVPs. He's nine times on the All NBA team, including seven straight first teams. He's also made nine All Star teams. So Giannis, MVP table Tassie.
- [69:02]
A
No question Giannis De Campo is joining the MVP table. The question is, who does he bump out of their seat, obviously ahead of Donovan Mitchell. Does he bump Luca is a question.
- [69:20]
B
He gives you the defense. You got more defense from Giannis. I mean, he's not going to be super far off on assist totals either because he's going to have to play some sort of point guard role from Milwaukee this season. But Giannis, as long as he plays 65 games, the guy finishes top four in MVP. Every single year. The guy puts up crazy numbers. 60% from the field last year, 30 points per game. That's Shaq.
- [69:45]
A
Like, yes, I would throw Giannis over Luca at the table myself. This guy makes friends with everybody. He knows what international relations is all about, whether it's an American and Donovan Mitchell or a Turkish player in Alper and Shengun who he called after he had a little controversy after Euro basket and they had a conversation like he'll be buddies with Jokic, will be buddies with Luca. Yeah, I'm kind of just tired of overlooking Yannis. I think that's happened a little bit. But where the Bucks end up is a part of that. People literally have them have them as far as down as like 500, like as a 5, 6 even playing team. So that's, that's going to be a factor in his MVP voting. But I think he'll get there no matter what the situation, no matter who's freaking playing guard. Because that's a huge question for that team.
- [70:43]
B
Big time question. Last year The Bucks won 48 games. That was with Damian Lillard still in town. Even though he was banged up quite a bit, Giannis was banged up quite a bit. But if they approach 48 wins this season, if they even get to 45, I think Giannis's MVP case is going to be even stronger than it has been in years past because you look at that roster and it is kind of a disaster. It's going to have to be even more of a Giannis carry job than we've seen from Milwaukee. It's going to have to be like Giannis on Greece for, for the Bucks to be a challenging team in the Eastern Conference. But he's that good. Giannis is awesome, man.
- [71:20]
A
Yes, he's there.
- [71:22]
B
All right. This is one of Giannis's favorite players. He chose Anthony Davis, Anthony Edwards and Kawhi Leonard as his favorite players in the league. He loves two way guys. So from the Minnesota Timberwolves, Anthony Edwards, he's their best player. 28, 6 and 5 last year, 45 from the field, 40% from three. One of the best three point shooters, maybe the best in the league statistically. Last year 84 at the line, made all NBA second team, made the all star team. He is a two time all NBA and a three time all star. So Anthony Edwards, how high up you going to be putting the ant man?
- [71:58]
A
How big is this table? Have we decided because it is fun at the end of the, at the end of the season to, to talk about five guys but is that too tight of a table here? Because Anthony Edwards has been voted seventh highest in MVP voting two years in a row.
- [72:16]
B
Okay.
- [72:17]
A
He ain't getting worse. There's no way he's getting worse. I think this team is going to be just as solid. I think he'll come, he'll grow up a little bit more. Despite Nikhil Alexander Walker leaving. I think he'll, he'll make sure that team is incredible and he's going to be that good. But you know, top five is like that's how. But that's getting a little tight in terms of voting for me.
- [72:42]
B
I can see Anthony Edwards getting MVP votes this year. Timberwolves have made back to back conference finals. I know that's post season, but it tells me that the Timberwolves are still a good team. They've got good continuity. And the thing I love with Ant is that he adds something to his game every year. Last year it was the three point shot. Became confident shooting it off the dribble. Took a ton of them. Shot 40%. The next step for him is blending his playmaking with his scoring. He can be a good playmaker, but he's obviously wired to get a bucket. So I think the Timberwolves need him to be a better playmaker this year. With Mike Conley continuing to decline with Nikhil Alexander walking, Walker going to out to Atlanta and with Rob Dillingham still a question mark as kind of the backup guard there it I would have Anthony Edwards at the MVP table. I know we're going to be adding a couple of more guys going forward, but he's got the stats to get close to get some votes and I think he'll take even another half step forward this year. So I don't know how high up I would like Edwards, but I do think he's got a chance to to get a surprise top five finish in MVP voting.
- [73:59]
A
Yes, he belongs at that table. He may be the best American player very soon. You know, when, when the old guys retire, it could be his. I think there's a chance of that. So he belongs. He belongs. Even though he doesn't want all that stardom. As he said, he doesn't want to be the face of the NBA. You're going to be the face that the server comes and talks to when he comes to the the table and has has a question. What are you guys ordering?
- [74:31]
B
That's a great question. That's a question we'll have to answer once we've put everybody at the table who would do the ordering. Like who would take charge of the table? Because you might say Jokic or Shea are the best players in the league. I don't think either of them is taking the lead when it comes to ordering the food for the table. So table that until now we'll see. We'll have to hear who people think is actually the restaurant dictators we used to call Mattyo and we would have our group dinners back in the day.
- [75:00]
A
The New Orleans I know who's. I know who's doing it, but we'll save it for when he joins the table.
- [75:05]
B
Excellent. The New Orleans Pelicans. I got Zion Williamson as their best player. I don't know who else you could choose. Maybe Jose Alvarado, but last year, 30 games for Zion, of course, 25, seven and five assists. He's a two time All Star. Last time he made it was in the 2223 season. So Zions in a, if they play category, but that doesn't exist. So you want him as a starter? You want him as an All Star? I don't know.
- [75:32]
A
Yeah, I've got him as a starter. He, like you said, he hasn't played in an All Star game the last two seasons and in 23:24 when he didn't play in one, he actually played his most games, which was strange to think about. He played 70 games in that season and he still didn't make it. This was a team that was 11 games over.500 at the all Star break. Now I know All Star picks don't get picked right at the All Star Game and they were a little bit more like three or four games above.500 when they made the selection. Still, that's freaking Zion who played 70 games and he was really, really good. But he was kind of like a lot of those guys at the MVP table when it came to making their selection for dinner. He kind of allowed Brandon Ingram to lead and other guys to do that kind of thing. He, he didn't, he didn't assert himself like he could have. And so I think that's like, I assume that's kind of like what Zion is going to do this year. He's not going to have, he's not going to try and take every shot, he's not going to try and score every single possession. And I think that's what helped get him to 70 games that year. And so I see a world where Zion does not make the All Star Game even though he's freaking. Weird thing to say. He could be one of the top 10 players in the freaking world, but I don't know if I'd put him on the All Star Game. It just can't bet on it, that's for sure.
- [77:00]
B
Yeah, exactly right. You can't expect him to play enough games and be healthy enough to make the All Star team. So good starter is where he ends up, unfortunately. I'm really bummed out though that Joe Dumars is so involved with the New Orleans Pelicans because Will Guillory over at the Athletic was reporting that responsibility and, and accountability are the two big words with Zion Williamson. I think everybody agrees that those are two things that need to improve for Zion to reach his peak if he ever can. But coming from Joe Dumars, his mouth When I've heard him say the same thing about the All Star Game for the past five seasons, I'm like, well, that's never going to happen then. Because the guy's always telling me it's all about accountability. It's all about playing hard at the All Star Game. This is going to change things and then it never does. So is it going to happen for Zion? Prove it to me first.
- [77:48]
A
Yeah, that's, that's this, this whole New Orleans situation. So weird, so strange. Yeah. Gail Benson gave Joe Dumars along with Troy Weaver the keys and they've, they're, they've got everything in all of these guys. I mean, there's just so many guys that they've sort of bet on. It's not two timeline type of thing, but it kind of, it could be like if Zion doesn't end up well, end up doing well, Trey Murphy is the guy that they made deal and then the whole thing breaks down from there. But there's just so many part moving parts here with Jordan Poole moving in, Derek Queen moving in. There's so many solid players but so many question marks that this Pelicans team, I know a lot of people will, will jump on them and think that they can do well, but how many more years can you really buy into it? Unfortunately, this is feels like this one is the one because otherwise Gil Benson's got to say, Joe, we need to go in a different direction.
- [78:52]
B
Oh yeah, well, unfortunately they traded their first round pick for next year, so.
- [78:56]
A
Yeah.
- [78:57]
B
Whoops. Yeah. Weird year for New Orleans and you know, it's kind of been the case since Zion has been in town. Our next candidate for the New York Knicks, Jalen Brunson, 26 A game last year. Three rebounds, seven assists. He was the clutch player of the year. He finished second team all NBA, made the All Star game. He's done that each of the last two seasons. Second team all NBA and all Stars. So Jalen Brunson, where you got this guy?
- [79:21]
A
I got Jalen Brunson at the MVP table. I think the New York Knicks are going to be really good. It helps that there's an injury to Jason Tatum and Tyrese Halliburton, but I think the Mike Brown insertion is going to get other guys involved. It's going to have a center from the beginning of the year in Gershon Yabuzeli that they didn't have last year when Mitchell Robinson came back injured. And I think their defense is going to be a lot better. And this team was only a 51 and 31 win team last year. And I think they can be a good amount better if they get everybody involved, get everybody playing off the bench. Now, Jalen Brunson went from fifth in MVP voting two seasons ago to 10th last season, in part because he wanted to get everybody involved. He shot three fewer times per game and that hurt him a little bit. But I think this year he'll get back into that MVP status. When the Knicks are better than that 51, 31 team, I think there is a good amount of chance he gets the credit for it. And so I think he'll be bumped up. It'll be a little like Donovan Mitchell last year who was at fifth in MVP voting in the Eastern Conference. There's, there's wins to be had. I think they will do it. And I think he's the guy who does the ordering at the table. If he's at it, he likes to, he likes to pick things up, I think.
- [80:41]
B
Okay, okay. If you're telling me that Jalen Brunson is the guy who's going to be doing the order, he's got to be sitting at the table. I picked him as MVP preseason last year. It didn't come to fruition, but I'm a Brunson fan for sure. I don't know that I would have him as an MVP candidate, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Knicks end up with the best record in the Eastern Conference during the regular season. And if that's the case, they're going to look to one of either Brunson or Towns as an MVP candidate. I see people in the Stream team saying that Towns is the best player on the Knicks. Probably a toss up between the two of them. I went with Brunson since he does seem to be the guy who does everything down the stretch. So, yeah, I mean, it is getting crowded. We already got six people at dinner. I know there's another, at least one that's going to be added. It's our next candidate from the shape from the Oklahoma City Thunder, Shea Gilgis Alexander. He is the reigning MVP, led the league in scoring at 33 a game. Also added five rebounds, six assists. Made all NBA first team, made the All Star team. He has made the last three first teams in the all NBA and also has been an all Star for each of the last three seasons. So this guy, for sure, he's at the table. Where do you like him?
- [81:55]
A
Yeah. Does he bump Jokic out of that one hole? Considering what he does defensively? You know, that's that's when you're splitting hairs. That's how you get above Jokic.
- [82:08]
B
Yeah.
- [82:08]
A
I think you can put him above Giannis. That's. That's reasonable. But I don't know. I think I'm comfortable leaving Jokic sitting there and plopping SGA in between him and. Yeah. Myself. But you tell me.
- [82:25]
B
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, look, I would love to tell you that Shay's the best player in the league. He definitely is the most accomplished player from last season, leading the league in scoring, winning mvp, winning the finals, and winning Finals mvp. Like, that's a perfect case for being the best player in the world. That is a Michael Jordan case for being the best player in the world. But when I was going through this, I did remember that Jokic averaged 30 a game and a triple double and shot 40% from three. So it's hard to say he's not the best player in the league still, but Shay definitely has a case for it if you want to make it. But he's. I mean, there's no way he's lower than two on the list of best players, which is where we got him now.
- [83:08]
A
Yeah. And when you're factoring in last season, looking forward to this year, I can't help but be excited to see another edition of Denver OKC in the playoffs. With Denver having much improved supporting cast for Nikola Jokic, they went to seven games last year with, you know, Jamal Murray and a banged up Michael Porter Jr. And a banged up Aaron Gordon. In the end, that game seven now with Cam Johnson and a freaking bench, this is going to be a super, super fun series. Those, those now with a Fred Van Vliet for the Houston Rockets. It seems like those are the Western Conference finals favorites in OKC Denver.
- [83:51]
B
But tbd, I think we still got one more player who might get to sit at the MVP table. But we shall see. Our next team that we're going to be discussing, the Orlando Magic. I picked Paolo Banchero as their best player. Some people would say it's Franz Wagner as their best player. Franz definitely had an awesome Euro basket. I think Paolo was maybe a little bit better in the playoffs for Orlando last year, but they both probably slot in at the same spot depending on where they end up. But last year for Paolo, 26, 8 and 5, he made the All Star game in 23, 24. Only 46 games last year due to an oblique injury, which Franz also had an oblique injury. So, A, who's the best player on the Magic? B, where are you putting Bonchero It's.
- [84:38]
A
Paulo Bonchero as far as the best player on the Orlando Magic goes. And he's leading the all all stars, I should say. And whether or not he makes the end of the all NBA guys, I mean, that's. That's possible too. I don't know. He's one of those borderline guys for me. Definitely a lock as an all Star. He was injured. That was a big problem last year. Like you said, he would have been an all Star last year if he wasn't banged up immediately. It was after five games, right? Yeah.
- [85:12]
B
He got hurt really early.
- [85:13]
A
Yeah. And he was cooking those first five games. So you got him at the all NBA spot.
- [85:20]
B
I'm putting it all NBA. I think the Magic are going to be really good this season. I see that Jalen Suggs is still recovering from his knee injury. So I think the playmaking from Franz and from Paulo is going to be very important from the Magic early in the season as Suggs gets his wheels underneath them. They got Desmond Bain a good ad. So I think the Magic are going to be a lot better. I actually think Paola will make all NBA and I think Franz will make his first All Star team this year. So I'm kind of double dipping here. But you know, Franz is going to get the Euro bump. That's pretty cool for him. I think it gives him a good chance to make the All Star game. So I'm bullish on the Magic and I've been a long time Bon Caro guy, the combination of skills and size he has pretty rare in the NBA. There's only like 10 dudes who kind of do the same sort of stuff that Paulo does.
- [86:07]
A
Yeah. And it is unfortunate they don't have Jalen Suggs, but Bain is a playmaker that he doesn't get a lot of credit for in his Memphis days. He can do that playing with. With Franz and Banker. I think he can do enough of that. And yeah, when Suggs comes back, this team is. This team should be really, really, really good. They gotta finish top four in the Eastern Conference and they should. So Ban Caro is an all NBA player. Would not be surprising.
- [86:36]
B
All right, for the 76ers, I picked Joel Embiid. Should I have picked Tyrese Maxi? I don't know. I like Maxi. But Embiid has won an MVP. He scored a point a minute. But last year, 19 games, 24, eight and five. He's recovering from an injury as well. But I know Sixers fans are excited because there have been pictures of Embiid at training camp and A he looks skinny and B he's not wearing a knee brace. Both encouraging things for the Philly fans. Yet another if he plays dot dot dot guy.
- [87:11]
A
Yeah, I totally was overlooking Tyrese Maxey who I. Yes. If it was Maxi, you'd probably put him as an all star player. Solid starter. I mean PG had Paul George had knee surgery this off season too. So it's. Yeah, we don't know how he's gonna come back in camp. So too many questions for this team and be the best thing we could put him at. Is is good starter. A former freaking MVP player who's not super old. But yeah.
- [87:42]
B
And I mean they tried to do it last year like keeping him beat as healthy as possible so that he would be ready for the playoffs and then they weren't even able to do that. Just a disaster season from Philadelphia. I've seen a lot of tweets going around, could this be the year for Philadelphia? Could they put it all together? What if everybody stays healthy? We shall see. Yeah. Yeah.
- [88:03]
A
And the crappy part is yeah, maybe Paul George says all right, I've had one year under my belt here and I'm going to turn into a better player.
- [88:13]
B
I mean that's.
- [88:13]
A
That's pretty important here. And even that doesn't. I'm not confident in that considering. Yes, he just had surgery. Considering at some point he's getting older. He's fought through so many injuries it's. That's tough to see. I don't know. I don't know how you bet in this team they lost Gershon Yabuzelli.
- [88:33]
B
They lost Yabu. They still don't have Quentin Grimes yet. Maybe he'll sign. Yeah, eventually. And Jared McCain is back for as well as well. So Sixers got a weird team. Their best players are all young, small guards and their highest paid players are old, slow, former awesome players. What a weird team they got going on. Another weird team, the Phoenix Suns. Devin Booker is surely their best player. 26 a game last year, four rebounds, seven assists. He's a two time all NBA player including one first team though it was quite a bit ago. He's also a four time all star. What you got for Booker?
- [89:07]
A
Devin Booker to me I'm putting him at the all star category. I'm throwing there. He was asked this past offseason, what do you have to get better at? And he said, I mean I don't know, there's so many. Did you see our team last year? He couldn't pick. So I'm wondering if he is ultra focused on being a leader type player this year because as you said, a lot of All Star appearances, you know, the last one had he had Kevin Durant beside him. The one before that he had Chris Paul beside him. But I think here, entering his prime years, he can be enough of a, a leader to lead a guy like Jalen Green that he has to. Like Fred Van Vliet was able to do in Houston. You know, Dylan Brooks is going to help out their defense. I, I do think he can, he can get there again. He can score a ton of points and he can be good enough. I throw him in there as an All Star.
- [90:05]
B
Yeah, yeah, I think, I think that's right. I think he's. I don't know. I guess I, I guess I'll put him ahead of Kawhi Leonard since he plays and he's probably ahead of Siakam as well. You can tell me he's ahead of Jalen Brown and Trey Young if you want to, but I just don't think that the Suns are going to be all that good. They've got a really unusual squad going right now. A lot of former Hornets and Young dudes are their big guys right now. But Booker, yeah, he's going to be 29 at the start of the season, firmly in his prime. Had the great run to the finals and then a 60 plus win team with Chris Paul that next year. And then it's been basically bad management ever since though they seem to be trying to do something new. So we'll see if that actually turns out for him. Our next team, the Portland Trailblazers. Skeets did put Jeremy Grant on as the best player for the Trailblazers. I chose Denny Avdia. I think he was better last year. Yeah, I think he is their best player. But that tells you where the Trailblazers are at. And they got a, they got a decent team, they've got an identity. But their best player is Denny Abdia.
- [91:16]
A
Denny is part of a bunch of Portland Trailblazers that there's can be a ton of optimism around. I mean, Denny is a really good player. He's easily a solid starter. He could help out a really, really good team. A team that could go far in the playoffs. At the same time, there are a bunch of other guys in, In Scoot, Henderson and Shaden Sharp, even Donovan Klingon. I mean, Young Hanson. Now there's. You can look at them and say, whoa, these guys have high ceilings. But we don't know if they're going to come anywhere close to that, then he is the most solid of all those guys. So he's, he's easily a solid starter.
- [91:54]
B
All right, I'll take, I'll take solid starter for Denny Abdia. He was. Is good drawing fouls, playing in transition. Pretty decent passer for Wing as well. But the Blazers are basically just like have a lot of good guys. You know, they don't have that superstar. They don't even have an all star like we're saying here. They just got a solid defensive team and pretty good depth of guys who are decent. It would be good for the Blazers if Shaden Sharp or Scoot Henderson become their best player because they need a little bit more upside. Another confusing team to pick their best player, the Sacramento Kings. I chose the Monte Sabonis. Could have been DeRozan, could have been Levine, but Sabonis led the league in rebounding last year. He's actually led the league in rebounding less three seasons, 14 per game last year, plus 19 points, six assists. He's a two time All NBA player, three time All Star.
- [92:46]
A
What a machine. That guy just produces every time he comes out there. So yeah, he could be an all star depending on what that team is around him. It's super interesting to see what the combination of new Dennis Schroeder and Malik Monk are able to do at running that show because I agree that Sabonis is the guy. But then besides them, like you said, a Zach Levine and a DeMar DeRozan are there to help out. It's so interesting. This team seems like it could be better. So will Demonta Sabonis benefit having good players around him? Ah, man, I don't know. I don't know. But if this is the year it's been, it's been a little bit now since demata Sabonis was one. It was the the beam team. Right where he was an all star. Yeah, he's borderline to me. All star or solid starter. I, I mean, yeah, you start mentioning those Kings names, it's is Doug Christie gonna get through to these guys to make them good enough for demata Sabonis to be capable enough player? Is it Zach Levine turning a new leaf here and looking at a new contract possibility? Like there's a lot of questions with this team.
- [94:06]
B
Yeah, I think he slots in like where bam out of bio is. You could see them both making an all star team. If Sacramento overachieves, if Miami overachieves, they're probably the guy who's getting the nod But I don't think he's a lock as an All Star. So I'm happy as a. As a solid starter and I have him behind the injury guys just because. Higher peaks for those dudes, but we'll see. Sorry. Sabonis always produces and puts up big numbers. It'll be All Star breaking. You're like, man, it's tough to keep the guy out that's leading the league and rebounding has got 12 triple doubles or something like that. So he is a productive player. Doesn't always turn into wins. We'll see what Sacramento looks like. Odd squad there. San Antonio Spurs. Victor Wembanyama is their best player. 24 a game last year. 11 rebounds, 4. 4 assists. Shot 35 from 3, 48 from the field, 84 at the line. He led the league in blocks for the past two seasons. Wemby made his first All Star team last year and then absolutely desecrated the skills challenge. Are you willing to put Victor Wembanyama at the MVP table?
- [95:17]
A
Nah, I can't. There will be a day where he's at the MVP table that is this. The year was sitting him after the. The thrombos is beneficial for him. He's gonna be fresh. He's gonna have a guy in Deer and Fox who's gonna be the best player that Wemby's ever played with. There's a possibility he gets there. I. But there's so many players that we have at that MVP table. I mean, he'd have to bump somebody. I think there's better chance of those guys and their experience and their team around them being top of the standings type of teams or leading top of standing types of teams than Wemby is. But an all NBA is where I'm gonna put him. I know I could be convinced there's a chance that he enters that MVP category. But you're. Who are you bumping? It's. It's one of, you know, your. Your aunt or Mitchell or Brunson. And I know people in the Stream team are saying, come on, come on, get Brunson off of there. Maybe he is that guy that replaces Wemby. There's a chance. Do you. I don't though. Do you?
- [96:24]
B
He was the last guy I wanted to add. I would not have put Brunson up there, but you talked me into it. So if you want to tell me, Victor, when Minyama is at the top of the all NBA tier, that's, I think, great. Third season is when Derrick Rose won his mvp. Players make a Huge stride. The team should be better. But the spurs are still in the Western Conference. You know, they're not going to be at the top of the conference. But if they are, Victor women is getting MVP votes. Maybe we should be brave.
- [96:53]
A
Yeah, well, I love Darren Fox. That helps then. There are some questions beyond that.
- [97:00]
B
Yes, there are many questions.
- [97:03]
A
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's the thing. I mean great draft pick, looking great to help out defensively. But you're going to rely a lot on Luke Cornett. You're going to rely on, on Devin Vassell. So there's like you said, they're in the West. How many games are they going to win? You know, if they're, if he's going to be an MVP candidate, we're talking a 50ish win team he had. They have to be. And that's going to be tough to do.
- [97:31]
B
That'd be a crazy improvement. But if they do it, it's because Victor is an MVP candidate. We shall see. But for now we got him at the top of the all NBA A tier. If he stays healthy, he should make it. For the Toronto Raptors test, I chose Scotty Barnes. Could have been Brandon Ingram, but we haven't seen him suit up yet. 19, 8 and 6 for Scotty last year. He is a one time all star. Made it for the Indiana all star game 2024.
- [97:58]
A
Yeah, we were there at the edge of the court and he was there soaking it all in. Being there for the first time as a Toronto Raptors backer, I thought this is the one of many, my friend.
- [98:12]
B
Hey, it might be. It might be.
- [98:14]
A
Oh yeah, it's not done. So here are we a couple years later last year, not as good a year where he was expected to be a number one guy. And that's why I think having Brandon Ingram beside him as that number one guy is the most important part of the Toronto Raptors and Scotty Barnes being as good as he is. Is Brandon Ingram the best player? No, I think Scotty Barnes is the best player. I agree. But Brandon does it all. The most is the most important. Can he help Scotty Barnes be a little less of a hold, put it on my shoulders type of thing? He had to do so much last year. Didn't seem like he could do that. So Barnes is going to be, he's going. I, I think, I think he could definitely make it. I think he could be an all star this season. But it really does depend a little bit on Ingram and then whether or not Emmanuel Quickley actually plays rj Barrett, etc. So I've got him. I mean, it's, he's, he's a borderline guy to me, but I'd throw him at the end of the, the All Star list. Yeah, I think we, I think he could, he could do it. He could definitely do it. Again, it's on Brandon Ingram's shoulder to me, but I think Scotty Barnes would get the credit.
- [99:28]
B
Interesting. I would have probably had him in good starter. I just feel like the Raptors are such an unknown team this year with quickly being out a big chunk of last season. Ingram never suiting up for the team. Scotty Barnes, I agree he is going to function a lot as the number one guy for Toronto, but I think that's just how the team is built. They're a team first team. Ingram should probably lead the team in scoring. Scotty Barnes should lead the team in basically everything else. You would think he's a good defensive player. And look, man, it's, it's September. It's a optimism time. He can be at the end of the All Star tier if you want. Yeah, he ain't gonna make the All Star team. But, but I'm feeling happy for you.
- [100:13]
A
How dare you. Look, look where we have him. Here. He is, you know, doing the. Looking at the numbers here. He is part of the top 19 players right now in the NBA. So he's making it. He's.
- [100:28]
B
He's literally one of the best 19 players.
- [100:32]
A
I mean, I mean, yeah, if you, if you would throw him in good starter, would you throw him above in front of Embiid and Morant and Zion and Sabonis? I mean all those guys could.
- [100:42]
B
Yeah, I would have him. It's similar to a Bam and Sabonis where it's like if things click and the team is good and they overachieve, it's probably getting a nod for a guy like Barnes or Bam or Sabonis. I think he's kind of similar there and like a do everything sort of player.
- [100:58]
A
Yeah, yeah, I do. I do think somehow the Toronto Raptors find a way. Emmanuel Quickley is super important. I think in game one this year, Darius Garland isn't going to undercut him. And so he falls and gets hurt. Hurt immediately. I mean, he barely played last year in his only full year with the Toronto Raptors. Pretty important. And yeah, you're just having faith that Brandon Ingram's legs are, are great. So I'm buying it. I'm buying. I think there's enough like, like you said, there's, there's good players. There's a, there's a bunch of, hey, super solid players but they, you know, a few of them have to click, that's for sure.
- [101:38]
B
All right. Out west, the Utah Jazz, Lowry Markkanen is their best player by a wide margin. Down year for Markkanen last year 196 and 2. He was playing through some back problems. Looked awesome at Eurobasket for Finland there. Markkanen is a one time All Star. So where are you going to put Lowry? I know you're a big fan, Tassie.
- [101:59]
A
Yeah, I'm throwing him into the All Stars. I throw him at the end of All Stars. I know he was there two years ago and last year I think the Utah Jazz and front office and Will Hardy sat him a bunch. I know he's banged up, but I think part of it was let's be bad. And I mean that's, that's been the last couple years, I should say. He made it three years ago and I just, I. He's too good to be a one time all Star in this league.
- [102:31]
B
No, no. He's the exact right amount of good to be a one time all star in this league.
- [102:36]
A
Yeah. But he could, he could be better.
- [102:38]
B
Than like I, I agree he is talented enough to make more All Star games, but it's not going to happen in Utah. The only reason he made that All Star game was because they still had vets around and the All Star game.
- [102:50]
A
Yeah.
- [102:50]
B
Was in Salt Lake City. He should not, he should not be on the Jazz at the All Star break. He should be training.
- [102:57]
A
Yeah. That would be ideal for him. It is tough to see a team with all these young players around him to see him thrive on that. That's no doubt. I just think they're not giving up this year like they have the last couple years. It never gets them the number one draft pick. So I think he will play to his ability. But are those old guys around him enough? I mean it's really, it's Yusuf Nurkic. So we're talking about Kyle Anderson, George Niang and then all their young guys.
- [103:29]
B
And they're going to be the worst conference. It's gonna, it's between them and the Pelicans for the worst team in the West. That's, that's not enough. Nurkic is not enough.
- [103:42]
A
I mean I am being, I'd be. Yeah, maybe I'm a little, I'm thinking a little bit too. Not thinking, you know, long term enough with Lowry marketing there. I feel like he should make one and maybe this year is not the one in Utah. Even though I think they will try harder. He is 28, so he has a few more years to still make it. There's no doubt about that. The Jazz are just a. A very, very weird team. Can they, can they win enough games? That's a fair question.
- [104:12]
B
I can't. They can't.
- [104:14]
A
But.
- [104:15]
B
But he's a talented dude and he was really fun to watch for Finland. So we're putting him ahead of Joel Embiid. We're putting him ahead of Bam Adebayo and Demontes Sabotis. Even though those guys produce and their teams win games. Not a lot of games, but they win some games. Our final guy, he plays for the Wizards. Literally didn't know who to pick. Tas did not know who the best player on the Wizards is. Asked on Instagram, asked on x, asked on YouTube, People voted for Bub Carrington, CJ McCollum, Cam Whitmore. Some people voted for no. 1. I chose Alex Saar. Like, I don't know. He was drafted second. You know, he played in Euro Basket. So yeah, I think the Wizards might have the worst, best player in the league.
- [105:04]
A
Damn. That's a fair point. Watching him at Euro Basket, you start to think, okay, this could be the Washington Wizards best player eventually. He has lots of talent. Can he do it enough? I would have probably chose CJ McCollum just because he scored 40 points last year. So you. I think it was. He had a 40 point game. Right. I think you make it. But it's to me, I'm watching the video of the Gold Throwback City editions that they released.
- [105:38]
B
I was.
- [105:39]
A
Even though I'm a, I'm a geek, I had to put it all together and think, whoa, who is that guy? Who is that guy? Who is that guy? They really. It's a, It's a tough season, man. It's going to be a tough one in Washington.
- [105:52]
B
That's crazy. I was like, keyshawn George, maybe C.J. mcCollum, he scored 20 points per game for like 10 straight seasons. But yeah, this is Alex Sar. You're a one eyed man.
- [106:02]
A
Yeah.
- [106:02]
B
Or, or whoever it is. Summon, whoever, whatever wizard. You want that? To me, I mean, the three worst teams in the league are going to be the Nets, the Wizards, and probably the Jazz as well. So, you know, somebody's got to inherit the bottom. They're early on the rebuild. Bilal Kuabali, he got some votes as well. But yeah, I think he probably would have gotten more votes as the best player on The Wizards if EuroBasket had gone a little bit better for him, but yeah, that was. I thought Wizards was the hardest to choose who is actually their best player. But that's the thing with the Wizards. They need to be the worst team in the league. They need to actually get the number one pick in a year where there are some number one picks. So this would be a good year to finish top three, because I think there's three really big draft prospects and the Wizards could use any of them because the building blocks, they're small blocks right now. They got some good supporting pieces, but they need that number one. So here's one last look at our tier ranker. We've got a very busy MVP table. Jokic, Shay, Giannis, Luca and Brunson, or sorry, Aunt Mitchell and Brunson are at the top. And look at that, an ad for Chad Powers. You're going to watch Chad Powers task. That looks ridiculous to me.
- [107:16]
A
Yeah, I just saw it pop up. I gotta. I gotta check this out. What is. Oh, it's Glenn Powell as Chad Powers.
- [107:24]
B
Glenn Powell is Chad Powers.
- [107:29]
A
Hey, listen, man, I just watched Friendship.
- [107:32]
B
Hey, I watched that too.
- [107:34]
A
Well, that was good.
- [107:35]
B
I laughed. I laughed quite a bit. Yeah, I thought it was. I mean, it was very dumb. Very funny. Look, look. Better than Chad Powers is gonna be. But this is the player rankings of the 30 best, best players. One best player from each of the teams. We'll put this up on our socials and places. People can tell us how ridiculous we are for having Lowry Marshall working in ahead of guys like Joel Embiid and John Morant. They're gonna say, how could you possibly have Bam Adebayo on the same tier as Lamelo Ball? They're gonna say you need to have like the Stream team is saying you need to have a kids table for the MVP table because the real MVPs are the top four in Jokic, Shay, Giannis and Luca. But you gotta have five. People will complain about this. But that's the whole point. That's why we give you a hundred plus minutes of what about this guy with the best players in the league. That's how you do it.
- [108:33]
A
That's how you do it. Now I'm starting to think if I'm going to criticize us, I would say there's got to be 15 players at the table.
- [108:44]
B
15 all NBA players. Yeah, you're totally right. We have what, 12. So, okay, of the three players that are in the all star tier, who's most likely to make all NBA?
- [108:58]
A
Oh, he. Oh, gosh. I Guess it's Anthony Davis. Man, this is a hard one. Ad, Trey and Pascal, I guess.
- [109:11]
B
Yeah, that's probably who I would vote as well. But you do have to factor in like there are other good players on teams like Jalen Williams. He is not the best player on the Thunder, but he'll probably make all day. You know, the same could happen for like an Evan Mobley. Like the second guy on a really good team can still make all NBA even if they're not the best player. So that's why it doesn't necessarily have to add up.
- [109:33]
A
That's true. That's true. I don't gotta be a numbers geek all the time. Doesn't have to add up to 15. Yeah, those. There's always those guys that don't make the all star game. Then they sneak in an all NBA appearance.
- [109:47]
B
Yeah, that happens. It's weird. Yeah, Gore and Dragic I think did that once upon a time. Maybe Halliburton has done it.
- [109:55]
A
Andre Jordan.
- [109:57]
B
Oh, yeah. Weird one.
- [109:58]
A
Yeah, there's been some weird ones.
- [110:00]
B
Yeah, I like this ML. Great idea. Let's do a second best player list. That'll be fun. Choosing the second best player on a team. Who's the second best? Ask yourself that question. Who's the second best player player on the Nets? Is it Cam Thomas or Terrence Mann? Tune in next week to find out.
- [110:18]
A
Give me Nick.
- [110:19]
B
Nick. Big Nick Claxton. That's it for our basketball talk. Literally 110 minutes. We started by talking about Fred Van Vliet and we ended by talking with nick Claxton. Survivor 49 premieres tomorrow night. That is Wednesday, which means no Buffs is back. We will be be doing our first show recapping episode one. Two hour premiere. That'll be Thursday from the Classic Factory. I think we're going to 10am to talk about that. You got. You got my bros ready, Tess?
- [110:54]
A
I got them ready.
- [110:55]
B
Clipper bros. You heard it here first. Have a great time. Turn up. Love you guys. Awesome.
- [111:02]
A
Thanks for joining us. And remember, Luka Doncic didn't eat his breakfast in the summer because he got skinny and was fasting. But I guarantee he eats them during the regular season. I can't wait to ask Rob Polinka about it. When I see him once in a hallway somewhere like the All Star game, I'm gonna ask him, does Luca eat his breakfast? He's not gonna answer. He's gonna say, what is this weirdo talking about? But I'm gonna say he does. That's all I gotta say.
- [111:33]
B
Embrace the breakfast people.