Honor & Eddie

Summary

Podcast Summary: No Feeling Is Final – Episode: Honor & Eddie

Release Date: October 18, 2018

Introduction

In this bonus episode of No Feeling Is Final, host Anna engages in a heartfelt conversation with actor, musician, and comedian Eddie Perfect. The discussion revolves around Perfect's involvement in the creation of the song "Don't Kill Yourself," featured in the series' final episode, and delves into the intricate balance between comedy and mental health advocacy.

Eddie Perfect's Role and the Song Development

Eddie Perfect recounts his initial engagement with the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) regarding a week of mental health programming aimed at destigmatizing mental health issues through various formats, including a variety show that leveraged comedy as a medium.

Eddie Perfect [01:24]: "I was up for a chat... And can you write a song? And I was like, that's what I do... I kind of write songs."

Perfect describes the significant pressure he felt while tasked with writing "Don't Kill Yourself," expressing his anxiety over crafting a song that could responsibly address the sensitive topic of suicide without trivializing it.

Eddie Perfect [02:54]: "The problem with mental health is the target is often ignorant... I didn't know what the target was."

Challenges in Creating Mental Health-Related Comedy

Perfect articulates the complexities of using satire and humor in the context of mental health. He highlights the difficulty in identifying appropriate targets for comedy in this realm, unlike his usual approach of "punching up" against clear societal or institutional targets.

Eddie Perfect [02:55]: "The rule in comedy is, you always punch up. I'm like, who am I punching here?"

He details the ABC's apprehension regarding the song's blunt message, leading to extensive discussions and concerns about potential negative impacts.

Eddie Perfect [05:00]: "One of the big things I was really worried about was, like, if you write a song called Don't Kill Yourself, what if someone hears that song and then they kill themselves?"

Despite these concerns, the song received positive feedback from mental health professionals like Patrick McGorry, who appreciated its blend of humor and awareness-raising intent.

Impact and Reception of "Don't Kill Yourself"

Although the ABC loved the song's essence, apprehensions about its reception led to strategic placement within the show, ensuring it didn't serve as the opening piece to mitigate potential distress.

Eddie Perfect [05:00]: "They decided it would be better to open the show with something else and to put it further back in the show in case it died at death."

Perfect reflects on his subsequent work, noting improvements in addressing mental health topics through satire in later projects, such as his song "Get Over It."

Eddie Perfect [06:00]: "I wrote a song called Get over it... I thought that was way more sort of successful as a satirical thing."

Anna's Personal Reflections on the Song

Anna shares her personal experience with mental health services, expressing how "Don't Kill Yourself" resonated with her feelings of prolonged struggle and the inadequacies of the commonly suggested mantra, "just ask for help."

Anna [06:15]: "That song made me feel like in some ways it made me feel more lonely because I felt like I wasn't doing it right."

She articulates the song's unintended effect of amplifying her sense of isolation, highlighting the gap between well-intentioned messages and individual experiences with mental health challenges.

Discussion on Comedy's Role in Mental Health

The conversation deepens into the role of comedy in addressing mental health issues. Perfect acknowledges the personal nature of effective humor, emphasizing that his lack of personal experience with severe mental health struggles limited his ability to authentically engage with the topic through comedy.

Eddie Perfect [09:25]: "It's very hard to be funny about something that you know is not personally affecting you... I just don't have it."

He contrasts his approach with that of comedians who draw from personal adversity, suggesting that authenticity is crucial for comedy to resonate genuinely in such sensitive contexts.

Eddie Perfect [10:00]: "Comedy really is so personal... You're taking something potentially embarrassing or shameful or complex or dark or taboo that you have personal experience of, and you're finding a way to let other people experience it and laugh through you."

Conclusion and Resources

As the episode concludes, Anna emphasizes the importance of seeking support and provides resources for listeners experiencing distress. She encourages engaging in personal coping mechanisms and reaching out through available support networks.

Anna [12:08]: "If you're feeling overwhelmed or in crisis, help is available... In Australia, you can contact Lifeline at 13 11 14..."

Anna also invites listeners to connect with the Big Feels Club for community support and additional resources, reinforcing the podcast's mission to foster understanding and dialogue around mental health.

Key Takeaways

• Balancing Humor and Sensitivity: Eddie Perfect's experience underscores the delicate balance required when using comedy to address mental health, emphasizing the need for authenticity and respectful engagement with the subject matter.

• Impact of Messaging: The episode highlights how well-intentioned messages can have varied impacts on individuals, stressing the importance of nuanced approaches in mental health advocacy.

• Personal Connection: Anna's reflections reveal the significance of personal experiences in shaping one's response to mental health narratives, advocating for individualized support and understanding.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• "The rule in comedy is, you always punch up. I'm like, who am I punching here?" — Eddie Perfect [02:55]

• "That song made me feel like in some ways it made me feel more lonely because I felt like I wasn't doing it right." — Anna [06:15]

• "Comedy really is so personal... You're taking something potentially embarrassing or shameful or complex or dark or taboo that you have personal experience of, and you're finding a way to let other people experience it and laugh through you." — Eddie Perfect [10:00]

Resources Mentioned

• Big Feels Club: A community for individuals to discuss and process emotions related to mental health. [Find more information online]

• Lifeline (Australia): 13 11 14

• Suicide Callback Service (Australia): 1300 659 467

• FindAHelpline.com: For free, confidential support in various countries.

Final Thoughts

This episode of No Feeling Is Final offers a profound exploration of the intersections between comedy and mental health advocacy. Through the candid dialogue between Anna and Eddie Perfect, listeners gain insight into the challenges of addressing sensitive topics with humor and the importance of authentic, empathetic communication in fostering mental well-being.

Transcript

[Anna]

Hey, it's Anna here with a wee bit of bonus content. That's right. Lucky you. Now, this is bonus content. So if you haven't listened to the series, go back and start at episode zero and listen all the way through to episode six. This episode will then make a whole lot more sense if you've done that. Also, this episode might touch on some heavy lifting feelings territory, including what it's like to feel so hopeless that you want to die. If it leaves you with a few things rattling around in your brain after, you might want to, you know, go do something nice for yourself. I can vouch for walking dogs, going for a bike ride, even taking baths. They're all pretty great things to do. So. Actor, musician, comedian Eddie Perfect was kind of central to the opening of episode six, the last episode of the series. He was in his starring role as the totem of my sabbaticals to Doomtown. So we reached out to see if he'd be up for a chat. We wanted to talk about the Don't Kill Yourself song that's featured, but also about life and everything in between. And absolute legend that he is, he was up for a chat. So here's me in conversation with Eddie Perfect down the line from New York City.

[Eddie Perfect]

I remember that the producer of the ABC said to me, we're doing a week of mental health programming and it's going to culminate in a variety show. And the whole week of programming is about attempting to, you know, in inverted commas, raise awareness, mental health, the state of mental health in Australia, to try and contribute towards destigmatising it. And I think with our variety show, it was about using comedy as a tool to explore mental health. Would you be interested in hosting it? I was like, yeah, and could you write a song? And I was like, that's what I do, you know, I write. I kind of write songs. And I was like, yeah, great. And then I went away and I fucking freaked out about that song for I had, like, a good three months to really worry about that song. And I was actually on a family holiday in Scotland driving a hire car around and talking to my wife Lucy about it and just going, I don't know what to do. Because with satirical comedic songs, the whole point of it is you. You know, for want of a better word, they're like weaponized songs. You know, you need a target. And normally what I would do is take an attitude or an ideology or an institution or a policy that I disagreed with, and I would adopt that opposing argument and then Just kind of ride that pony into the blazing sun. You know, let's take it to its illogical extreme. Right?

[Anna]

Yeah.

[Eddie Perfect]

And the problem with mental health is the target is often ignorant. And then probably a whole bunch of very specific things that you'd be well acquainted with that are, like, institutionalized. You know, everything from policy down to the White House in mental health care is kind of provided or not provided for people. And I didn't know what the target was. And so I remember coming back from that trip and saying to my manager, I don't think I can write this song. You know, the rule in comedy is, you know, you always punch up. I'm like, who am I punching here? And it's also, like, it's fucking terrifying in Waters, you know, like, I don't want to do any damage here. And so my manager said, well, we've just got to call a meeting with the ABC and talk to them about it. So I went and talked to them, and we had this meeting. And, you know, like, trying to get a producer to pitch to you ways and it could be funny is excruciating, to say the least. But after that, I went away. I'm like, what do you want? Like, what do you want this thing to do? And then I'm like, I wanted to raise awareness, and we obviously want people to seek help if they need help. And, you know, we want to address suicide, and we want to stop beating around the bush, and we want to be, like, specific, and we want to be bold, and, you know, we want to start a conversation, you know, that kind of thing. And so I came up with the idea of the song Don't Kill Yourself, because I was like, it's pretty blunt, but it's like, kind of generally the aim. I think one of the aims of what's going on with the show. And I wrote a song and I handed it in, and then the ABC freaked the fuck out about that song for ages. Like, meetings, meetings with lawyers. One of the big things I was really worried about was, like, if you write a song called Don't Kill Yourself, what if someone hears that song and then they kill themselves? Like, that would be absolutely awful. So they got in, like, all sorts of different people. Patrick McGorry got sent my demo, and he was like, this is great. You know, let's bring this stuff out in the open. And I think it mixes humor. And it was supposed to be the opening song of the thing, actually. But then the ABC was so sort of terrified of it, but loved it. But, you know, Got increasingly scared of it as they were coming up to taping it, they decided it would be better to open the show with something else and to put it further back in the show in case it died at death. It wasn't the thing that began the show. So that's what happened. And I did the song and, you know, I don't know, like, how do you measure songs? I don't particularly love that song. I'm not like. I mean, you would have a better take on it with someone that, you know, has personal experience with the subject matter. But I thought I did a much better job the next year because I think I understood what the target was. And I found a different way of approaching the second year. I wrote a song called Get over it, like a music theater number where it was like someone presents at their workplace with having mental health problems, and the boss sings this whole song about, why don't you get over it? Just go for a jog, drink chamomile tea, all the things that people are told, you know, deal with that. And I thought that was way more sort of successful as a satirical thing. And, you know, don't Kill Yourself was just like a kind of a bold message wrapped in a lot of sort of stupid idioms. But anyway, that's enough for me that that was how it came about. What was your response to it? I'm interested to know.

[Anna]

Honestly, my, like, my experience of all of the mental as programming being in that space was. It was actually quite, quite disconnecting, which I found really weird because I would have thought, having not been in that situation before, that, like, it would be made for me. Right. But in that scenario, it's interesting hearing you talk about punching up, punching down, and, like, not knowing what the target is, because I remember when I listened to that song, I think to get to that point and be in hospital, I'd been using mental health services for, like, 10 years, and it had been so hard to get any help and to get people to take me seriously. And when I was in hospital, it was actually a really, really scary place to be. And it's weird. That song made me feel like in some ways it made me feel more lonely because I felt like I wasn't doing it right. You know, that conversation of, like, just ask for help can make you feel very alone. When you've been asking for help for 10 years and you're not sure, like, that, you know, you just, like, don't know if you're gonna get out of it.

[Eddie Perfect]

Yeah.

[Anna]

So it was hard to Listen to. And it did stay with me, actually.

[Eddie Perfect]

Because it made it seem like it was really easy. Like, you just call the number and then everything gets fixed.

[Anna]

Yeah, yeah.

[Eddie Perfect]

And it's really glib song, too. Like, there's all that shit about, like, you know, Messina could bring out another flavor of ice cream and you'd never know. Don't you want to know what happens to the little dwarf guy in Game of Thrones? Like, it was all, like, that kind of stupid stuff. Like, you would stick around just to find out how Game of Thrones ends, you know, it was glib. There's no doubt about that. And to be honest, like, I have no idea what happens when you call that number. You know, you read any article and it's like, if this has affected you. Anyway, this is the Lifeline number. But I. No idea what happens when you call Lifeline. No, I don't think. Don't kill Yourself the song is going to do anyone any good, necessarily. We hoped and prayed that it wouldn't do anyone harm, but, you know, you'd trade that fucking song for just one bed in a mental health institution. You know, for somebody to get the care they need, you know, that would be way more effective than a jaunty comedic song. And so do you feel like, what makes you laugh? Like, what. What do you. What do you respond to when you're in, like. You're like, kind of darkest places? Does comedy. Any comedy work on you or you just like. Nah.

[Anna]

Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, I. I laugh. I laugh sometimes.

[Eddie Perfect]

I laugh.

[Anna]

Sure, I laugh. What I found interesting was that, like, I've read interviews with you where you've talked about, like, going through tough times where you're finding life difficult, but I didn't see that in that song. I think you know what I mean?

[Eddie Perfect]

Yeah, yeah. No, no, you're right. I mean, because I don't really feel like I have a right to own that, to be honest. Because, yes, I've had times where I've been pretty depressed, but I've always known why. There's kind of a reason for it that I can point to that means, well, if I can fix that, then it'll probably go away, and it normally does. So I can say, yes, I've had bouts of depression, but I don't think it's ever been. Certainly nothing I've ever sought out for. It's nothing that's ever been diagnosed by anyone. I've never been inside the mental health system, and I just didn't really feel like I could own that in any way. You know, it's like having a paper cut while other people have got amputated arms. And it's also very hard to be funny about something that you know is not personally affecting you, because comedy really is so personal. Like, you know, this happened to me the other day, or when I went on a trip to Thailand, I got mugged, or, you know, whatever. You know, the personal is and the immediate is what makes comedy work. People like Felicity Ward and Celia Bucquolla, you know, they're much better on that kind of stuff than I am with that firsthand experience of it. And so when they talk, you go, okay, I. I understand where you're coming from. It's just funny because you're owning it, which is pretty much what 99% of comedy is. You're taking something potentially embarrassing or shameful or complex or dark or taboo that you have personal experience of, and you're finding a way to let other people experience it and laugh through you. And I acutely felt with those gigs that I didn't have that. I mean, I was there to host it and to be a facilitator for it. And I'm certainly sympathetic of it and I'm certainly around it. But as for the personal, you know, I just don't have it. And that's probably, you know, I think that permeates through all art when someone's faking it. So sorry for faking it. That's what basically this whole conversation is about me saying, well, it's not. Yeah, not so much faking it as just kind of like, I don't think you're faking it.

[Anna]

I think it's just. You don't know what you don't know. That's. That's it.

[Eddie Perfect]

Yeah.

[Anna]

It's been really great to chat to you.

[Eddie Perfect]

Me, too.

[Anna]

This is like. This is actually. I appreciate that we get to talk like this because I feel like it's kind of rare that these sorts of conversations happen, because I. Yeah, because I wanted to ask you about that song because I was like, where did it come from? And I didn't want to come up to you in your supermarket. This was much better.

[Eddie Perfect]

Well, plenty of people do. I get stuck in long chats in cold. But no, no, I'm really glad to have the chat because you know what? I think it's really. It's important too, because, like, you know, I had a really weird job, and I feel like I'm pretty open about stuff that works and doesn't work. I've certainly written things that have offended people and sometimes I see their point, sometimes I don't. You know, like it's one of those things where like if you're writing comedic songs that are trying to force a conversation or awaken an audience or like get an impassioned result one way or the other, this is part of the job. And like, I am certainly not so self involved and precious that I think I get it right all the time. I'm not precious about my material. I'm quite happy to discuss what was effective about it and what wasn't. And you would know a lot more than I would. So I've really enjoyed this conversation.

[Anna]

It's cool.

[Eddie Perfect]

Have you ever thought about it? Have you ever had a brief or a song? Like, if you want to fix this, then why don't you just email me a brief but I'll see if I can write an actual good song.

[Anna]

Oh my God, really?

[Eddie Perfect]

I think it would be a good resolution to this.

[Anna]

Oh my God, that would be so cool. Sorry, do I sound too excited?

[Eddie Perfect]

Just don't tell my manager because he'll be like, what the fuck are you doing, dude? You got no time to do this.

[Anna]

I won't tell him. I won't tell him.

[Eddie Perfect]

Alright, that sounds good.

[Anna]

That was me in conversation with the Totem for my sabbaticals to Doomtown Eddie. Perfect. It was really special to get to talk to him. What a legend. And I think that we may have even broken the curse if this episode brought up some stuff for you that you'd like to talk about. We've listed some places you can contact as well as a whole bunch of resources and further reading in the show notes and on the website. Search for no Feeling is Final podcast online or you can call Lifeline. Their number In Australia is 131114 and someone is there 24 hours a day. My preference these days is online chat services because I just. I just don't like talking on the phone that much, particularly if maybe I'm a little bit upset. And of course, if you want to talk to other folks about the kinds of ideas that this show brings up, you can Google the Big Feels club. And maybe you have a thing you do when you're feeling, I don't know, a bit funny. Like that made me think about a bunch of stuff. I want some processing time. You might want to go do that thing like going for a run, playing the piano, catching up with a really good mate who totally gets it. I think I might even go see if I can find Graham after this. Thanks for listening. See you soon.