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- [00:00]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
You walk in tired and hungry, one bad dinner away from losing it.
- [00:05]
Jasmine Crockett
You don't like to cook.
- [00:06]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
You don't want more takeout.
- [00:08]
Jasmine Crockett
You just want something good. That's why there's Dish by Blue Apron pre made meals with at least 20.
- [00:14]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Grams of protein and no artificial flavors.
- [00:16]
Jasmine Crockett
Or colors from fridge to fork in.
- [00:18]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Five minutes or less.
- [00:21]
Jasmine Crockett
Keep the flavor. Ditch the subscription. Get 20% off your first two orders with code APRON20. Terms and conditions apply. Visit blueapron.com terms for more.
- [00:31]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Today we're going to talk about why I went to Washington, D.C. this week and the broader goal for the Democratic Party. And I've got four interviews. I speak with AOC about Republicans bailing on town halls and the Trump administration's threats against her personally. I sit down with Jasmine Crockett to discuss what happens when she herself goes into deep red districts. I interview Senator Raphael Warnock about the 60th anniversary of Bloody Sunday and his visit to Selma to cross the Edmund Pettus Bridge. And I'm joined by Senator Chris Murphy about Republicans using a young boy with cancer as a prop while simultaneously cutting cancer research funding. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen and you're listening to no Lie. So a little bit of a different kind of episode this week. If you've watched my YouTube channel, you've probably seen that I've done a lot of my interviews in person over the last month. I live in la. I generally shoot all of my interviews remotely, and I've actually only been to D.C. a handful of times, maybe half a dozen. I think the first time I was ever in that city was when I interviewed Biden back in 2022. Anyway, the last couple of times that I went over the last three weeks or so was because I was meeting with the Democratic Caucus in the House and the Democrats in the Senate to explain to everybody the importance of embracing independent media and content creators. That the election that we just finished is really a testament to just how influential content creators were for the right. Dan Bongino, Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson, Daily Wire, Alex Jones, Megyn Kelly, Matt Walsh, you name it. And that is owed to the fact that that right wing officials have bolstered their independent media ecosystem for years. They have validated and legitimized them and we just haven't done that on the left. If you've watched any of my coverage, you know that I've been beating this drum forever. I've literally written my book Shameless about this exact thing. Why it is so important that we embrace independent media and the asymmetric advantage that Republicans gain by virtue of the fact that we don't. The difference is right now that losing in November really opened up an opportunity that doesn't come around often, and that is that the Democrats finally recognized where we fell short and they were open to a solution. And by the way, we've seen for the last few months that pretty much everybody on the left is saying how something should be done. Everybody recognizes that we should change something. So here's what I've done. We pulled together a team who knows this space incredibly well, and we launched a media company called Chorus, which I'm sure you may have heard me talk about. Chorus is a few things. First, it is an incubator for the next generation of left wing content creators. We're gonna bring on a thousand new creators on the left. We're gonna train them in how to create effective content. We're gonna make sure that our messaging is coordinated so that the message actually breaks through very much like how the right does it right now. And we're gonna stand up an army so that we can eliminate the massive advantage that the right enjoys. And after the first thousand, we're gonna do the next thousand on a rolling basis, over and over so that the GOP's advantage online dis have an advantage on basically every single platform. YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, they have more people than we do. They are flooding the zone. So that's the goal. We are building an army. The second thing that Korus is is a conduit between content creators and our elected officials. I started this podcast, no lie, back in 2020. That's when I did my first interview. For the first year, booking interviews was the bane of my existence. It was so difficult to get interviews. I didn't know how to contact people. I was literally sending interview requests to like infoernysanders.com My conversion rate was maybe 20%, which means every week I had to reach out to five or six different offices in hopes that one person would come through. And sometimes nobody did. And I'd call some really good friends of mine, like Al Franken or Alex Michaelson on a Friday night to help me out. And they always did. And I'm very grateful for that. Anyway, all that is to say, I want to make sure that our creators today don't have to deal with that. I want to make sure that our electeds know exactly how to find creators who they want to talk to. And we're going to make sure that it is a frictionless process so that no one is spending Time stressing over talking to people and instead getting Democrats in front of new audiences that are A bigger than mainstream media audiences and B consist of actual persuadable voters as opposed to the guaranteed Democrats that they're talking to when they appear on MSNBC or CNN. So this past week we took a group of 50 content creators to D.C. to meet with Democrats before the presidential address. Over 160 members of Congress showed up to talk to them. I just want to convey how amazing it is that for an institution like Congress, which is about as nimble as a cruise ship, to suddenly turn on a dime and welcome these creators is really encouraging. It's encouraging because it's something that I've been trying to make happen for years now and it is happening. And look, there are gonna be speed bumps and people are gonna screw up and that is okay. The news cycle is like six hours these days. God knows that I've messed up and it's felt like the end of the world and then tomorrow comes and it's all good. But we're trying. And hopefully we see more Democrats embrace more content creators and more independent media outlets. Hopefully we see them let their guard down and go into uncomfortable spaces and take risks and forget about the polls and the consultants and the talking points and be a lot more real so that we know who they are and doing and how they are fighting back. That is something that I know I'm desperate to see and I know you are too. The reality is that we are 10 years behind. Republicans have been supporting their media ecosystem for a long time because they saw that they weren't getting from regular mainstream media what they needed. And the benefits have been undeniable. And it sucks that the right always has a 10 year leg up on the left before we realize what's upon us. Gerrymandering was the same thing. They gerrymandered Democrats out of a thousand seats, legislative, federal, before we even noticed there was a problem. And while we can't change the past, we can at least figure out what to do right now. And again, it's not going to be perfect. We'll take flack for it, I'm sure. I'll take criticism, but I'd rather stick my neck out and try than sit back safely and do nothing. A member of Congress came up to me while I was there and he said something that stuck with me. He said they've had a ton of people come and say that something needs to be done, but that this was the first time that someone actually showed up with a Solution showed up with 50 creators and said, we've got people who want to talk to you right now. Go meet them. Go make the case to their audiences that they'd had a lot of people say that we should do something, but this is the first time that anyone actually did anything. So that's our plan. We are doing something because something needs to be done. So the goal right now is for Democrats to go into new spaces to make the argument and to reach new people and for a new wave of creators to do the same. Not just political creators like me, but we're working with voices in all areas of culture. Places where left of center perspectives were largely absent last year. With people who may not want to talk about politics all the time, but know that what's happening right now is wrong. It's a group effort here. It's going to take some time. But look, I'm beyond grateful that we've got buy in from our elected officials. That really is huge. I'm grateful that we've got existing creators who are down to coordinate and organize. That is also huge. And soon I'll have more information about the army of creators that we're building. So if that sounds interesting to you, stand by for more. This is the beginning of what I truly believe is going to change the political media landscape forever. And to that point, here are my interviews with some elected officials who took time out to speak with me. This AOC Jasmine Crockett, Raphael Warnock and Chris Murphy. No LIE is brought to you by the Merchants Payments Coalition. Credit card companies are ripping you off and you don't even know it. Every time you use a credit card, they charge a hidden swipe fee, which costs an average family more than $1,100 per year. Credit card companies and their Wall street banking partners raked in a record $172 billion on those fees in 2023. $172 billion with a B. Americans are paying the highest swipe fees in the world. And with no competition, swipe fees have nowhere to go but up. But the good news is the House and Senate have a bipartisan bill to fix this problem. It's called the Credit Card Competition Act. The Credit Card Competition act would make credit card companies and their Wall street partners compete like every business is supposed to. It would save you, your family, everyone who swipes a credit card, hundreds or even thousands each year. Call your senators and representatives. Tell them to pass the Credit Card Competition Act. I'm joined now by Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio Cortez. Thanks for Joining me?
- [08:55]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Of course. Thank you.
- [08:56]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So right now we are watching as Republicans are going to their town halls across their country, to the point where even the NRCC had said, look, just stop going to town halls. Not that they should maybe fix some of the things that people are upset about, but just don't go to the town halls. I have seen so much footage of you going to your own town halls, getting absolutely, like, harangued and harassed and yelled at, and yet you still go, you still show up. And so what's your reaction to the fact that given your experience watching these Republicans not even want to show up in the building?
- [09:28]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I think regardless of what party you are, if you're independent, Republican, Democrat, you have a right to, to see your elected member of Congress whose job it is to serve and represent you. And you're right. I've had plenty of town halls where people not even from my district have shown up. And, you know, yeah, they give me a tough time. That's kind of part of the gig.
- [09:55]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [09:56]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Being a publicly elected official, you're never going to make everybody happy. But my job, part of it is you go home, you, you go to your town halls, you explain what you're doing. Sometimes you gotta face the music. There's tough votes that we gotta take here, but our job is to hear from people. And if you aren't doing town halls because your own residents and members of your community are upset with what you're doing, the answer is you gotta own your decisions.
- [10:26]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And so what should Democrats do right now? Because there is a vacuum that's being created where even in these Republican districts, and these are not a lot of the time, these are not even swing districts. These are R + 20, R + 25 districts. That means 20 or 25 points more Republican than the rest of the nation. And so they're not able to speak to anybody because their representatives aren't showing up. And so is there an opportunity for Democrats to be able to step in here?
- [10:49]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, totally. I mean, listen, if your representative is not doing a town hall, give me a ring. I mean, I don't know if an R&25 district would, would have me, but I'm always willing to be proven wrong. And I, I mean, I'll say it right here, right now. If a deep red Republican district wants to have an honest conversation, even if it's with someone they disagree with, I'm willing to do that. You know, I'm willing to meet with Republicans and just, you know, be honest about where I stand, where they stand we can explain, you know, and understand each other better, but I definitely think it creates a vacuum. And even if it's not a Democratic member, people can host community town halls. You don't need a member of Congress to host a town hall and just host one without them.
- [11:40]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So I want to switch gears a little bit here, too. Obviously, you've been subject to attacks, public attacks, by Tom Homan, Trump's ICE director. And we've seen numerous instances where Trump's law enforcement officials, including Ed Martin, U.S. attorney's office here in D.C. and, and Pampandi, have really focused their attention right now not on violent criminals, not on terrorist organizations or domestic terrorists, but rather on focusing on Democrats themselves. And so what's your reaction to the fact that, for example, these things are being done kind of to the detriment of focusing on actual violent criminals by putting you guys in their crosshairs?
- [12:18]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, with all of this shift in focus we see, we really haven't seen before, this kind of Hollywoodification of law enforcement activity. You've got Kristi Noem doing Made for TV I stings where they get by the way, they pick up almost nobody in these. You've got Tom Holman going on Fox News threatening members of Congress for educating everyday Americans of their constitutional rights. You know, it's not just that this is a deep, deep betrayal of their jobs, but it's also the fact that every time you see Tom Holman on Fox News, every time you see Kristi Noem, every time you see these law enforcement officials doing flashy television interviews, understand that they are taking resources away from looking at human trafficking. They are taking attention and focus and real dollars and real resources away from actual drug enforcement, trafficking enforcement, actually going after and actually trying to investigate really harmful activity that is happening. And so it's harmful in every, in every aspect.
- [13:36]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Does it surprise you that after years and years and years of them wailing about this idea of the weaponization of government that the first chance they have in power, within just weeks of this administration, they're already writing inquiry letters to members of Congress. They're targeting you. They're targeting Chuck Schumer.
- [13:53]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Well, I mean, this is the thing with Republicans. Every accusation is a confession. And we know for a fact that the Department of Justice remained independent under, you know, Democratic and Republican administrations alike prior to the Trump administration. Yeah. And that independence is incredibly important. And we know that it's been independent. Right. They like to cry about Joe Biden weaponizing the Department of Justice. If that was the case, I Don't think we would have seen convictions of Senator Menendez. I don't think we would have seen these investigations into his own son, Hunter Biden. You know, we've seen so many investigations into Democrats under the Biden administration. Let me tell you, that's a good thing because independence is what matters. It shouldn't matter what party you are. It shouldn't matter what your political viewpoint is. What should matter is the facts of the case.
- [14:48]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Medicaid, Social Security, these are earned benefits, entitlement programs, programs that people rely on. They are lifelines for hundreds of millions of Americans. Medicaid itself is responsible for making sure that more than 70 million Americans have access to health care. Children's health insurance program, tens of millions of kids, food stamps, snap benefits are 40 some odd million Americans. Republicans are claiming right now that they're not going to touch any of these things. Kind of your reaction to that?
- [15:16]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
They're lying to the reason. What Republicans say is, oh, these big budget cuts don't actually say the word Medicaid in it. So they aren't Medicaid cuts. But if I tell you 10 minus what's 10 minus 4 and you say 6, I can just tell you I didn't say 6.
- [15:36]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Right.
- [15:37]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
But they put the 10 minus 4.
- [15:39]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Into the bill by virtue of ascribing $880 billion in cuts to Energy and Commerce. And the only mathematical way for them to cut 880 billion dol is to focus on Medicaid.
- [15:48]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
That's right. They're saying cut $880 billion from the energy and Commerce Committee. I sit on that committee and Energy and Commerce. Almost the entire budget that Energy and commerce really explores is Medicaid and Medicare. There is no way that they can make their math square without enormous and devastating cuts to Medicaid. I just talked to a woman right there in that room. She adopted her 8 year old nephew who has severe developmental disabilities, autism, other types of disabilities, and by the way, her nephew, tragic story, her nephew's parents have passed away. She amazingly took him under her care and she has two jobs. She needs Medicaid for her nephew to live and to continue to develop. And Republicans just want to cut it. Yeah, I mean, these are people's lives on the line.
- [16:46]
Brian Tyler Cohen
They are going to claim that any cuts that they make are gonna just fall into this bucket of waste, fraud and abuse. We've already seen them begun to, you know, begin to even Trump, at the presidential address for the joint session of Congress has already started introducing this idea, debuting this new conspiracy theory that there are just thousands and thousands and thousands of people committing fraud through Social Security. Is that the case?
- [17:08]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
It's not. I mean, how long, how many times have we gone through Republican administrations accusing this? And so they have cut every single benefit program that actually serves everyday people all the way down to the bone already. But you know what? They aren't cutting tax cuts for G wagons. You know what, they aren't cutting the tax cuts for private jets. And I want you to understand, I want everyone to understand that tax cut cuts cost money. We have to pay for them. So every dollar that you spend in federal taxes is going to pay for some rich person's G wagon and it's also going to cut in 8 year old kids with autism's ability to access Medicaid. That's what they are putting on the table. That's what they're trying to make worse. And frankly, I don't care what party you are, we cannot stand for this.
- [18:01]
Brian Tyler Cohen
What do you make of the fact that while we're seeing cuts to Medicaid, food stamps, education funding, watching veterans get fired, that at the same time you've got Elon Musk, the co president for Donald Trump, basically consolidating all of these federal contracts, even to the point where there was a contract that was already allocated to Verizon, that was given instead to Starlink.
- [18:24]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, absolutely. And I don't know if you've been seeing some of the news, but, but Starlink satellites are already kind of falling out of the sky. This is a rickety, rackety system and he does not deserve these contracts. He has an enormous conflict of interest with these contracts. He is going in, cutting these contracts and then giving them to himself and acting like he's some kind of good guy. It's not the case.
- [18:50]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And finally, let's finish off with this. What do you make of the fact that Republicans immediately moved to censure Representative Al Green for interrupting Trump's presidential address in the aftermath of folks like Marjorie Taylor Greene, for example, spending all of their time during Joe Biden's addresses, getting up and yelling themselves.
- [19:08]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Yeah, like they're just a spectacle. Right. They're just. This is not about, you know, for a party that loves to talk about free speech, they lay down the hardest hammer in trying to intimidate and punish anyone who does anything that they don't like. And the point of it is trying to make an example out of one person so that none of us stand up. And it's really important that we understand what they're trying to do and not play their game.
- [19:43]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And we've seen that chilling effect and that promise. This will be the last question. We've seen this chilling effect not just among members of Congress, but also for Trump himself. Absolutely. With media companies and forcing these tech billionaires to come and bend the knee. And so can you speak about the standard that they're setting in terms of trying to really get every single sector of whether it's CEOs, whether it's tech billionaires, whether it's these members of Congress, elected officials, whether, you know, getting, getting them to all kind of quiet down.
- [20:13]
Jasmine Crockett
Yeah.
- [20:13]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
I mean, this is just corruption, plain and simple. All of these media settlements where they're trying to settle cases that we know would probably just be dismissed in court. They're trying to settle these cases in order to funnel money to Elon Musk. They're trying to buy up all of the Trump coins and crypto assets in order to funnel that money to Donald Trump. It's not just that Trump is corrupt, is that everyone participating in this is corrupt. Elon is corrupt, Jeff Bezos is corrupt, Mark Zuckerberg is corrupt in participating in this scheme that we all know everyone's just trying to look the other way because who really cares, right? And it's this idea of cynicism, it's this idea that no one cares about fairness anyway. No one cares about the rules anyway, so who cares if we break them? But at the end of the day, once again, who suffers? It's the eight year old kids with devastating autism diagnoses. It's the parents, the public librarian who had to quit his job to take care of his 16 year old son with devastating medical disabilities. And now he might be on the street because they want to cut Medicaid in order to give even more tax cuts to folks like Bezos and Elon Musk. Like, we need to fight for the basic dignified society that is just giving working people a fair shake.
- [21:34]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Perfectly put. Representative aoc, thanks so much for taking the time.
- [21:37]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Thank you. Thank you so much.
- [21:41]
Brian Tyler Cohen
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- [22:49]
Jasmine Crockett
Yeah, it's good to have you in person.
- [22:50]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, thanks. So we are right now in a moment where obviously there's a lot of upheaval across the country over everything that's happening in this government, whether it's Medicaid cuts, food stamp cuts, attacks on veterans, on and on. There's been recent guidance from the NRCC to stop doing town halls for Republican members. Not, not to fix any of the problems that the people who attend those town halls are actually bringing forward, but just not to hold the town halls whatsoever. So can I have your reaction to that cowardly move by gop?
- [23:17]
Jasmine Crockett
Yeah, I mean, I think you, you laid it out cowardly. It's laughable to me because, you know, we supposedly live in a democratic republic. And the idea that they don't want to go and talk to the people, that literally put them into position. This is what we're constantly seeing from the Republicans. It's kind of like Trump, like Trump is not deciding that he's going to be beholden to all these people that gave all the little money that they probably didn't have to his campaign that went out and decided to vote for him because they really believed in him. They believed the lies that he told when he said on day one he was going to end war, when he said on day one that he was going to reduce the prices of food, that when he said on day one that he was going to give us a big, beautiful America. Right. Like, they believe that. And so, you know, as much as I spar on social media and that kind of stuff with, you know, radical maga, there's just not that much of this country that is just maga. Right. Like, I refuse to believe that the vast majority of this country is maga. And there are those that got caught up, that really were struggling and saying, okay, I'm going to take a chance on something else because maybe my life will get better because that is what was laid out. But what we're seeing is that Trump only cares about those select few people that he allowed to be on the inside when he got inaugurated. And right now we know that the Republicans don't care about the people that put them into position in the House. Instead, all they care about is making sure that they are in his good graces. They could care less about their constituents. And so I say where they won't go, we, as Democrats, we need to show up and show that we really are public servants and show that while Fox News may go off and try to tell you that I'm some double headed devil or whatever, that I really do care. And I can back that up with the bills that I filed and I can tell you the truth about the policies that we're pushing for and how that is going to improve your lives and not just the lives of my constituents and really start to heal this country and let them see that there's so much more that brings us together than separates us, right? And so get out of the cultural stuff, right? Because guess what, it's not the trans people that made you lose your job right now if you're without a job. It's not the trans people that somehow started a tariff war with Mexico or China or Canada. It's not the trans people that were out there taking away the Department of Education. So now if you were going to pay for your kiddo to go to school by using loans and those loans may not be available. It's not the trans people that they went out blaming for everything that was bad. It's also not the immigrants that they went out blaming everything on. And it's definitely not the black folk. Black people, especially black women, are still putting our bodies on the front lines in the fight for an America that will continue to kick us no matter what we do, right?
- [26:10]
Brian Tyler Cohen
The major beneficiary, when you have all of these people getting screwed from this government, the people, the 70 some odd million Americans who use Medicaid, the 40 some odd million Americans who are on food stamps. It's not those people who are to blame for any of this stuff. The money is going. We already know who's getting bloated defense contracts. We know that SpaceX is getting defense contracts. We know that Starlink Terminals is getting contracts. We know that Tesla is getting contracts and so it's right in front of us, black and white, the numbers. When we see who's losing money out of all of this and who's gaining money out of all of this. And to your exact point, no, it is not the trans people who are to blame. It's not the black people who are to blame. It's not immigrants who are to blame. We can see in black and white who is benefiting from this presidency. And it's none of those people. It's the people at the top, people who helped Donald Trump get to where he is right now. To that point, we should go where Republicans aren't. What should we do with, with regards to this town hall issue? Because clearly there's there, you know, folks are agitating across the country. People want to talk to elected officials to find out what the fuck is going on. And if those Republicans going to show up, what would you recommend Democrats do?
- [27:13]
Jasmine Crockett
I absolutely believe that we have to show up. And I think that this allows us to build a rapport with those constituents that belong to them. And it allows us to say, these.
- [27:22]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Are in Republican districts and Republican districts.
- [27:24]
Jasmine Crockett
I mean, you know, it was funny because I was talking about this yesterday and it was in like an actual meeting in my office, and someone wanted to ask, they were like, do you think that you can go into a Republican issue? I absolutely do. And I was explaining to him that actually when I go to rural America, they actually crave for me to come back more than anywhere else. And I talked about the relationship that I have with the Texas Farm Bureau and how anytime the Texas Farm Bureau was on the Hill, they were always coming to see me. And I knew that the vast majority of the people that were coming, that they weren't necessarily Democrats. But I just laid it out, and I don't think that there's anything partisan about food or there shouldn't be anything partisan about food. Right. Like, I may not grow it, but I definitely eat it. You know what I mean? And so, like, I would just talk to them about the facts. And I want our farmers to do well because I don't want us to be relying upon a food supply that is coming from elsewhere. I want us to have that as a matter of national security. Right? So I want us to have farmers that are able to raise food right here in our country that is under our government's eye for sure. It doesn't mean that I want to get rid of trade and things like that, because we do that as well. But definitely I want to make sure Our farmers are good. And so having those real conversations and going into those areas. We did a listening session in Waco, Texas, which isn't too far from Dallas. I show up. I'm the only black member that showed up to the listening session. And we did about three different events on that day. And every room that I was in, I was the only black woman until the last room. And then there was one other urban farmer, black woman that was there. But it was okay because at the end of the day, I didn't feel like we needed to focus on my complexion or the fact that I was the only Democrat that was sitting on the panel. We just need to talk facts. And so many people came up to me and it was almost like, oh, my God, you're actually real. Like, you're not the devil that I thought you were.
- [29:20]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I was gonna ask. We do live in such a bifurcated media ecosystem. Have you found that folks who you talk to in areas where there's not usually Democrats, that they perceive Democrats as the caricature that Republicans or right wing makes them out to be? And how does that differ from what people tell you when they actually do have the opportunity to speak with you?
- [29:40]
Jasmine Crockett
Yeah, so it is interesting because people that don't have touch us with Democrats, for sure, when they first kind of encounter us, or at least encounter me, then they think of me differently than when they actually are given an opportunity to talk to me again. Like, I bring up Texas Farm Bureau for a reason, just because I know a lot of their supporters are Republicans. But it doesn't matter when they come on the Hill. Like, I am always in. Honestly, all the guards go down. I remember the very first reception that they did during their first, like, Hill Day. And I went and like, there was a woman who was so rude to me, and I was like, okay. And I just kind of brushed it off or whatever. And she didn't know me. Like, it was before series and fire moments and that kind of stuff. But I was like this black woman Democrat, so that's all she knew. She was incredibly rude. And after that, though, I never had a similar encounter with anyone because I think that I garnered a reputation. I mean, they've got pictures of me driving a tractor trailer in my district. Like, I think that the perception of me was completely different than what they ended up getting. And I think that's why Democrats should show up. I think that we should have been showing up a long time ago. During the Harris campaign. I was telling them, send me to rural America. And they were like, what I was like, send me to rural America. But they sent me to rural Georgia. And I mean, everybody came out and, like, people were really excited that, like, oh my gosh, you know, Jasmine Crockett's coming to rural Georgia. Right. But it allowed me to be on the local news there so that those that maybe don't get a person like me on the local news could kind of see and hear from me and know that I lived in East Texas as well. I've lived in rural America. I practice law in rural America. So, like, I know the struggles that exist out there from actually living in rural America, as well as being someone who served on the ACT committee. And so once they see that I'm able to talk the talk and that I understand the challenges, whether it's their hospital shutting down and me believing that your life expectancy should not be cut short just because of your zip code, because that's the thing that we run into in our big urban kind of centers. And so honestly, rural America and inner urban city, lower income areas actually share a lot in common when it comes down to SNAP benefits. Right. Like me fighting for snap, that's not just for my district, it's more so for rural America than in my district because they use more SNAP benefits. So what I tell people all the time is that the fight that I'm waging, it's not just if somehow you go somewhere and you've got a D on the front of your name that you're going to get the benefits. It benefits the vast majority. But if we're not talking to people, then we can't complain that they're not listening to us because we're not having a conversation. And I think this is a great chance and opportunity to show that we don't want to be a divided states of America, that we really do want to be united.
- [32:44]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Part of that, I feel like the reason that we're not going into these spaces is just this broader problem that Democrats face where we want to avoid anything that might be controversial or unsafe. We just kind of stay away from, from any controversy. Do you think that, you know, given what you said, like, how Democrats should move forward with this idea that we should, like, throw caution to the wind and not worry about messages that are poll tested. Not only state areas that we know are okay, like, this is a, this is, this was a Trump 51, you know, Kamala, 49 district. And so this is our target. We shouldn't go anywhere else. Like, so much of what we do, I feel like has to, to be safe. And whether it's in our messaging, whether it's in our campaigning, even when to respond. Like, we don't allow ourselves to come out and respond. And so it allows Republicans to own the narrative. And then when we finally deign to build up a response and we've, you know, call a press conference two days from now and the news cycle is gone already, whatever. Whatever narrative Republicans wanted to put forward already is completely ingrained. Like, we're so slow often. And so how do you think about that in terms of, of, in terms of your own strategy?
- [33:50]
Jasmine Crockett
Yeah, man, you said a whole mouthful there. I will say that this kind of goes back to what we were talking about off camera when we were discussing just kind of like comms and what that looks like on the Hill and the way that they're trained and why for me, I'm like, I need somebody that's outside of kind of like the Hill mentality. Yeah. Because number one, most of them have no idea about news cycles. None. Yeah, like, no clue. Right. Like when we even a lot of times, and I do a lot of leading of my own comms, which is very frustrating. Right. But I have more of a comms instinct. And I was a business major with the emphasis on finance and marketing. So like, I've done marketing, so I understand it. And I've also done media before I got here, before I got to Congress and actually even before I got to the State House. So I understand, understood. Like, okay, well if this is the moment, then yeah, comms person, don't go pitching me to go on TV talking about Z when we're talking about A all day. Like, the, the moment is passed. Right. And so even one of my young staffers yesterday was asking me about posting about something. I was like, it's State of the Union day. If anything about State of the Union, it's not getting posted today. Not getting posted today because we want to make sure that it gets the traction. But it's a similar kind of, of mindset when you're talking about social media. Now granted, you can get to the point that you can actually create your own ecosystem and create kind of the news cycle. Yeah, yeah, you can on social media. But like, I was like, that's not what we're. This is not where we are. And so I was like, like teaching her. And like, this is when you should post about this because that's when it will make better sense because we're just going to be talking about the State of the Union. And so it's it's not going to hit the algorithms the same way. And so I think that it's important that we start to shift, because there hasn't been a measurable shift. Right. Like, it's like, oh, okay, well, you know, Trump won. And then everybody's like, during headlights, it's like, dude, like, hello. Like, some of y' all have been here before. So you know what he's like. And you know that it was only going to be supercharged. Right. And so, like, tapping into that. And then again, like, it's. It's the idea of what type of training do you have? Not everyone can do media, period. That's just the bottom line. And then we've learned that in a very painful way, but nevertheless. And then not everybody can do every type of media. Right. You have some people where they can do the very traditional news that is going to be local. Some are better at doing the cable news, some can do podcasts. I'm learning that most cannot, you know, because they are from a different kind of school of thought when it comes to politics. Right. So it's like, well, I gotta be super buttoned up and I handle politics the way that I handled practice in law. Like, when I would go into a jail and talk to a client, I am not talking at all of this crazy legal leads. Like, he knows when I show up that I'm a lawyer. So he knows that I have done everything that I need to do to become who I am. Right. And what my job is. But you gotta understand the plan, honey. So, like, when I. When I show up, I had to not only show up and make sure that my client understood, but also, I mean, I literally represented killers.
- [37:11]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [37:11]
Jasmine Crockett
So I couldn't show up and be scary either.
- [37:14]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [37:14]
Jasmine Crockett
So that's another reason that, like, you don't see me, like, cowering to bullies, like. No. Like, if they sensed that you were weak in any way, they took advantage of that. So I would talk to them one way, but then when I show up to a jury, right. It's people from all over the community with all different levels of education. And so I'm talking to them a certain way, but by the time I gotta argue something in front of the judge, I know which way I gotta go. And not everybody can do that.
- [37:39]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And that's the wild part, because, I mean, like, the number one rule public speaking is to know your audience. And so the people who, like, look, politicians know what they're doing. They presumably know what they're doing when they get here. They know how to write legislation. Presumably they knew how to do all the committee stuff and speak in that way. But I think right now there seems to be ignorance in the fact that the audience isn't other politicians. The audience is the American people. And so when you speak to the American people in a way that sounds like rote politics speak, you lose them. Especially in an era where people are so starved for authenticity. I mean, this is like, this is the social media era. And so if you're not gonna be able to connect with people because you can't shake that politics speak, if you can't shake that stiffness, then you're gonna. Not only are you gonna lose people, but you're never gonna be able to break through in a media environment where you do have people who get it, who understand how to break through in this media environment. People like Trump himself. I mean, part of his winning formula is just he knows how to get attention, he knows how to get on camera, and we have both. But you do know how to get on camera. A lot of people don't understand that when we're talking about how to speak to folks, that the end user, the audience here, is not their colleagues in Washington, D.C. it's the American people. And they don't speak the same way that the folks here speak.
- [39:01]
Jasmine Crockett
Correct. Our colleagues don't listen anyway. So I don't even know why we would try. I mean, they do not listen. But I do think that a lot of this kind of depends on, like, where you come from. Like, my district. I mean, I love my district. Like, I mean, it is. It's kind of next level. It's, like, very weird, like, the relationship that I have with my district. And so I do think that my district affords me kind of an opportunity to do literally just be as laid back as I want to be. Because they also trust that I know how to write legislation. They know that I know how to work in a bipartisan, bicameral way. They know that. I mean, there's articles out there where you've got my senior senator that is saying nice things about me. And if anybody knows things about Texas, they know my senior senator is not a Democrat. Right. Because at the end of the day, like, if there's somebody willing to work, I will find our middle ground. Like, is my senior senator ever going to support me having liberties over my body? Probably not. Right? But on other things, like, if he says that he actually cares about fentanyl, which is something that I am very well aware of as a former criminal defense attorney, and it's legislation that I started working on in the state House. As soon as we started taking all our fentanyl legislation to him, he started carrying it and he actually had more time and he was actually pushing it out even further than I could. And so my constituents know that I know how to do the job. And they also know that when I show up, I'm going to show up in my very real way. But if I've got to put on and be that pristine politician, they know that I can. Right. But they do feel so much more comfortable with me. They feel so much more excited about me. And I mean, I remember going home after somebody asked to take me outside and I saw my constituents and they were like, just tell us where to be. You don't have to do that. Like, we will handle that. Like, yeah, no, my constituents don't play. Like, they are very pretty protective and very loving. But I think that it is because they know that when I come to work, I come to work to fight for them. So regardless of what the noise may say, at the end of the day, they have the receipts because I email them every week and tell them everything that I've done. They've got pictures of the meetings that I've had in my office, they've got my committee hearings and videos, the OG.
- [41:14]
Brian Tyler Cohen
5 Things I Did this week. Email before.
- [41:16]
Jasmine Crockett
Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Right. But yeah, it really is. But like I, I tell them and I can, can remember going home and seeing some of my senior kind of constituents and them saying, we have never been so informed about what was going on and what our member was doing than now. But I do that. I do teletown halls once a quarter where we usually have no less than 7,000 people that show up on the teletown halls. Right. And that's before everybody was having to do all the town halls because of all the drama. Yeah, we do that. We send out mailers, we'll send out mail so that people know exactly what all things we've accomplished, how much money we've brought home, that kind of stuff. So I don't wait until I need you for a vote. I tell you how I'm serving you consistently in all ways. And this is beyond kind of the social media stuff. This is the stuff that you only get if you're texted. We send you text messages and we tell you we're going to be in your city and we're going to bring our office hours to you. We do a kids and kites event every year just so that we are connecting and showing that we really do care and we love our constituents. We do a kids and fishing event. So we do a lot of things within our districts and it has built kind of this thickest thieves relationship. And it is one reason that I do feel so empowered to be so fearless because my constituents know that I fight for them every day.
- [42:38]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Hopefully folks in nearby districts can see you too if there's town hall opportunities that we know Republicans aren't going to.
- [42:44]
Jasmine Crockett
Oh, we were asked. So after that was announced, I received an email from someone up north in Collin county, which is where we saw one of those videos from Keith Self.
- [42:54]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [42:55]
Jasmine Crockett
And this woman said, hey, they are thirsty. Like I've been talking to my Republican like neighbors and they just want someone to answer questions and now they don't want to show up. And like if anybody would be willing to do it, I think it would be you. And I emailed her back and it was like working on it. So I probably will, at least specifically in my area. If they're not going to show up, just go just right over to the neighboring district and tell them that I'm going to have a town hall. It's just a little chaotic when I do things because of my profile and because of how things are. So it takes a little bit more. I can't just say, oh, we're coming tomorrow. We have to get bomb sweeps and all kinds of stuff because of the threats that I get.
- [43:39]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Well, insofar as I have, you know, I can offer any words of encouragement, you know, with safety in mind, of course. Highly recommend that you get out there because I think this will. Will not only give folks the information that they need and that they're. That they're kind of desperate for at this point when a lot of them are losing their last lifelines, but also kind of disabuse themselves of this notion that Democrats are the caricature that Republicans and beat them out to be that we're just, you know, like that we've got like abortion scheduled at like 5 o' clock and then, you know. So in any case, thank you for all your time. I appreciate it.
- [44:10]
Jasmine Crockett
Thank you. It's good to see you.
- [44:14]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Did I put the clothes in the dryer? I hope they don't think I was nest. I have my brain shut.
- [44:19]
Jasmine Crockett
Just sleep already.
- [44:26]
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- [45:15]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I'm joined now by Senator Raphael Warnock. Thanks so much for joining me.
- [45:17]
Raphael Warnock
Great to be here with you. Thank you.
- [45:19]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So I wanted to turn your attention to a clip of Alina Habba speaking out recently.
- [45:24]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Well, as you know, we care about veterans tremendously. I mean, that's something the president has always cared about. Anybody in blue, Anybody that serves this country. But at the same time, we have taxpayer dollars. We have a fiscal responsibility to use taxpayer dollars to pay people that actually work. That doesn't mean that we forget our veterans by any means. We are going to care for them.
- [45:41]
Jasmine Crockett
In the right way.
- [45:42]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
But perhaps they're not fit to have a job at this moment, are not willing to come to work.
- [45:46]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So that was Alina Haba obviously saying that veterans aren't fit to have a job at this moment. Can I have your reaction to that?
- [45:51]
Raphael Warnock
There are no words to even respond to that is outrageous. I come from a military state. Georgians all across my state are not only veterans, but touched by the work of veterans. Listen, our veterans are the best among us and they deserve a president and an administration that understands that more and.
- [46:12]
Brian Tyler Cohen
More we're seeing not just veterans losing their jobs, but this administration really predicating its focus on taking things away from the American people. We've already seen them set their sights on Medicaid, on food stamps by virtue, virtue of their budget resolution seeking to strip $880 billion from energy and commerce, $230 billion from the agriculture Committee. They've been focused on stripping away through Doge education, funding, health care, funding cancer research. And so in the lead up to the election, there was a lot of focus on bringing prices down, making sure that Americans had more. And yet now that we're actually in this administration, there is so much being taken away. So can I have your response to the fact that really what we seen thus far is little more than a bait and switch from this administration.
- [46:54]
Raphael Warnock
The Trump administration has declared war on the American people, on ordinary people, and looks like no one is safe except the billionaires who were on the stage with him during his inauguration. An assault on veterans, on federal workers, on our public health care infrastructure, on the ability of kids to get through, through K through 12th grade. The work that's done by the Department of Education, the cfpb, which provides protection to consumers. All of the things that we're counting on to protect us and have people have a path to prosperity. They're taking all of those things away. I think it's important to acknowledge that. But also it's important to acknowledge why they're doing it, because that's just as important. Why are they doing it? To pass a tax cut for the wealthiest people in America. I mean, the wealthiest of the wealthy are the ones who will benefit, by and large, from this tax cut. And, oh, by the way, they're putting a $4 trillion hole in the deficit even as they do it. Explain to me how that is fiscally conservative. Explain to me how that is good for America.
- [48:15]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Well, you know, their retort for that is gonna be that all they're doing is eliminating waste, fraud and abuse, that any money they take away from Medicaid is just gonna be fraudulent.
- [48:25]
Raphael Warnock
They should start if they're interested in waste, fraud and abuse, they should start with Elon Musk, co President Musk's own companies, and ask why. Why has he gotten $20 billion and more from the federal government? This is wealth fair at its worst. And this is not about efficiency. This is about dwindling the government down to nothing so that they can then reassert a vision of America that is a far cry from anything we've ever seen. Do things need to be fixed? Yes. Are there opportunities always to address waste and abuse? Absolutely. Am I concerned about fraud? Am I concerned about people being abused? Absolutely. Which is why we need the CFPB, which, by the way, has returned some $21 billion back to the American people. Not to the United States treasury, but to the people.
- [49:34]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I want to talk about what you're going to be doing this weekend. So it's the 60th anniversary of Bloody Sunday. You'll be in Selma. Can you talk about why you're going there?
- [49:43]
Raphael Warnock
On Sunday, I will return to holy ground as pastor of Ebenezer Baptist Church. I was also John Lewis's pastor, and he continues to inspire me. Sixty years ago, ordinary people, marginalized people, a multiracial coalition of conscience approached that Edmund Pettus Bridge. And they brought us a little bit closer towards our ideals. And I think it's important for us to mark that moment. Historically, I intend to be there preaching on Sunday. But I think it's also important.
- [50:26]
Brian Tyler Cohen
To.
- [50:27]
Raphael Warnock
Put this in a larger historical context because I think it bears relevance to the moment we're in right now. Andy Young, Ambassador Young, who lives in Atlanta, is in his 90s. And those of us who live in Atlanta, we have the benefit of walking among giants all the time from the civil rights movement. And I like the story that Andy Young tells me. He talks about how he was with Dr. King when Dr. King went to the White House and made the argument to President Johnson that we need a voting rights law. And President Johnson said, you know, you're right, I understand, but I can't get a voting rights bill through the Congress right now. I just passed the civil rights bill of 1964, and that was a heavy lift. There's no way that I'm going to be able to do that in various ways. He kept saying, I just don't have the power right now to do it. And Martin Luther King Jr. As they left and got in the car, he turned to Andy Young and his other lieutenants and said, well, the President says he doesn't have the power. I guess we're going to have to go and get the President some power. I love that story because it is the recognition that it's really ordinary people fighting for American values who set the context for the change that we need in the world. And that's what the Selma march was about. It was about Martin Luther King Jr. And those who marched alongside him going to Selma and creating the context and the conditions to do what was necessary. And literally, within a few months, they passed the Voting rights law of 1965 and which changed the whole American electoral landscape, without which I would not even be sitting here talking to you right now.
- [52:25]
Brian Tyler Cohen
To that point, then, what is your message to folks who are agitating across the country right now, showing up at these town halls, showing up to confront their Republican elected officials, even as we've just had recent news from within the NRCC telling Republican members not to hold town halls anymore. Given what we all know is the power that our voices have, their proposals.
- [52:47]
Raphael Warnock
Are unpopular and they know it. And I mean, think about that. What kind of instructions are those? Don't show up and talk to the people.
- [52:54]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Don't allow yourself to be accountable to your bosses.
- [52:56]
Raphael Warnock
Hide from the folks, right?
- [52:57]
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
How about.
- [52:58]
Raphael Warnock
How about you show up and do your job? Instead of sending people telling them to list five things they've done this week, how about you show up and do your actual job? I love the story of Selma again, because These are just ordinary folks and they didn't have any reason to think that they could win. And I think that is so important right now because we're up against so much. I think it's easy to shrink, to give in to cynicism. And I think that's what folks want us to do. But John Lewis, Amelia Boynton, a woman who was gassed on that bridge, we don't say her name enough. Amelia Boynton, they didn't have any reason to believe that they could win. Hosea Williams, who marched alongside John Lewis across that bridge, brute force, with the whole authority of the state behind those state troopers on the other side of the bridge. And they kept on marching. And John Lewis didn't have any reason to think that he would win. I presided over his funeral a few years ago, and I asked myself, as I was preparing the night before for his funeral, what was John Lewis thinking when he was crossing that bridge with nothing but a backpack on and a long trench coat? Was he thinking that at the end of his life, three American presidents would attend his funeral from both sides of the aisle? Was he thinking that one day he'd be the recipient of, of a Presidential Medal of Freedom? He couldn't have imagined any of that. I think he was just trying to stay alive that day so that he could fight the next day. And by some twist of human resilience coupled with grace, he crossed that bridge and built a bridge to the future. It is our job to show up in this moment. We never know when that moment will come, where change happens. But every single day we have to make the case. We have to stand up for the struggles of ordinary people. Stand up for health care as a human right. Stand up for women to have a voice and to have autonomy over their own body. Stand up for children and young people so that they have a path towards prosperity, so that their parents income doesn't determine their outcome. These are the things that we have to center every single day. And no, we don't give in to the autocrats. We believe in democracy.
- [55:27]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Senator, we're in a moment right now where obviously things are going in the wrong direction. We're seeing rights get stripped away. We're seeing folks lose lifelines that they need to be able to survive. And so in a moment like this, as you prepare to go back to Selma, how do you, how do you get people to keep the faith as things are going in the wrong direction?
- [55:48]
Raphael Warnock
I'm not going to sugarcoat it. These are tough times. Dr. King used to say it's Only when it's dark that you can see the stars. And we don't know when you have this moment where you can see this kind of change that happens. And I think that the work of the activists, the work of those of us who care about ordinary people, is to keep showing up, doing it day after day after day. And sometimes, quite honestly, you have to take the long view. If you look at the whole history of our country, there are moments when the democracy expands and there are moments when it contracts, and we're in a moment of contraction. But our work, our moral work, our holy work, in my view, is in this moment of contractions to stand up, to show up, to be faithful. And it's often in those moments that you give birth to something that's even larger and bigger and better. We got to keep pushing our country towards its ideals.
- [57:00]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Well, I appreciate the optimism. And look, if I could, I would sit here and listen to the poetry that is you speaking all day. But I appreciate you taking the time.
- [57:08]
Raphael Warnock
Thank you. Good to be with you.
- [57:13]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I'm joined now by Senator Chris Murphy. Thanks for joining me.
- [57:15]
Chris Murphy
Thanks for having me, man.
- [57:16]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So we're in the immediate aftermath of the presidential address in the chamber. You were not there because I guess you wanted to preserve some sanity or some semblance of your.
- [57:24]
Chris Murphy
Listen out for my. For my mental health.
- [57:26]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Mental health.
- [57:26]
Chris Murphy
Yeah.
- [57:27]
Brian Tyler Cohen
There was a bit of manufactured outrage that we're seeing from the right where Donald Trump presented a young boy who has cancer and gave him, give him, like, access to being a Secret Service member and Democrats didn't stand up. And Republicans are spending the day after this basically throwing a fit over the fact that, you know, fainting spells, over the fact that Democrats didn't stand. And yet conspicuously absent in all of their discussion of this is the fact that Republicans took away cancer research funding for kids in the initial bill that they had when Elon Musk first came onto the scene and they first got their majority in Congress. So can I have your reaction to that?
- [58:04]
Chris Murphy
I mean, listen, there were a whole bunch of touching moments in the speech, but, like, this isn't daytime tv. This is the state of the nation. And the fact of the matter is the president is in charge of deciding whether we're going to cure cancer or not, and he's deciding not to. That's the bottom line. The president has decided to do these massive cuts to cancer research, to kids cancer research, to adult disease research. And the reality is there's going to be a lot of people who, who will die because There are research programs shutting down all over the country and getting ready to shut down. So I get it. The President spent a lot of time talking about things tonight to distract the country from the real story. And the real story is the destruction of research, the handover of the government to the billionaires, the collapse of the Medicaid program, the crashing stock market. You know, some of those moments were touching, but it has nothing to do with the actual storyline that's going to affect a lot of Americans, including the fact that diseases aren't going to be cured at least as fast as we could, because the President has decided to take an ax to our research programs.
- [59:14]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Okay. To that point, I mean, this is funding. Notwithstanding the fact that Trump wants to take an axe to it, notwithstanding the fact that Elon wants to take an ax to it, this is funding that was still legally allocated by Congress. It's Congress's prerogative whether or not to move forward with this funding. And you all have decided to do so. And so where do we stand right now in terms of you all being able to basically jealously guard your autonomy as the people in charge of the purse, and Trump's desire to just have his hand in all things, to basically have the unilateral power to do all things in government?
- [59:46]
Chris Murphy
Yeah, I mean, listen, this is why I say that we are in a constitutional crisis right now. Right. There's a lot of folks who say, well, we might be in one soon, but on this specific issue, the Congress has been very clear about how we fund medical research in this country. In fact, we're very clear about how the money is allocated. And Trump has just ignored Congress. Just ignored Congress. So we give, you know, money for the, you know, the direct research, and then we give money to the universities for these indirect costs, like keeping the lights on the machines that you need to do the research and the research assistance. Trump's just decided to put a cleaver into those indirect costs. That's illegal. That's absolutely legal. Congress has said exactly how much you have to spend on direct and indirect costs. That's why it's a constitutional crisis right now. The President is not abiding, by the way, in which Congress has said money is. Has to be spent. And why is that? Because he wants to use that spending to demand loyalty. Right. So he's specifically targeting research programs because it goes to thousands of universities in this country, and he wants to compel those universities to only engage in conservative speech. He wants to kill liberal speech, progressive values, student dissent on those campuses. So he decides to cut off research funding. And then let me tell you what he's going to do. He's going to start to turn it back on in the red states. He's going to turn it back on for university presidents that pledge loyalty to Donald Trump. And anywhere where there's campus protests speaking out against Donald Trump, their research funding will be cut off. That's why our founding fathers said Congress has to be in charge of spending, not an executive, because that puts them in a position to be a despot, to be a king. That's why it's a constitutional crisis right now.
- [61:30]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And so, look, the right has been really effective at investing in the future, right? And we've seen that with the way that they've even focused on Prager University. We've seen that with the way they focused on their independent media sources ten years before Democrats did. And so, given the fact that they are focusing on the future and kids and trying to proselytize young people in this country and using congressionally allocated funds as a carrot to dangle, where do we stand right now, then? Is Congress going to be able to step in or. Because Republicans control the House and the Senate, is it basically just carte blanche for Trump to continue barreling ahead and just kind of usurping all this power from Congress?
- [62:09]
Chris Murphy
Well, listen, they, they control the White House, they control the House, they control the Senate. So there is a limit to what Democrats can do. We can slow things down, but we are the minority party. Like the, the, the people voted to give them the reins of power. So when there's an illegal power grab like Trump is engaged in, what are our levers? Well, one is the courts. Right. So we don't have an army.
- [62:29]
Raphael Warnock
Right?
- [62:29]
Chris Murphy
The, the, the minority party Democratic senators, we don't have an army. So we can't go and compel the president to obey the law. We need to rely on the court. Courts, or we need to rely on mobilization. And so there is going to be a moment very soon which we're going to need not hundreds or thousands of people out on the street, but we're going to need tens of thousands of people out on the street. Because historically, when democracies are threatened, it is only, only mass mobilization, and not just from the left, but mobilization from the left to center and the right who recognize that their democracy is about to vanish. And, and we've gotta be sowing the seeds, sort of laying the foundation for that mass public mobilization. We're gonna probably need it pretty soon.
- [63:11]
Brian Tyler Cohen
To that point, then we've already seen how the beginnings of that are sprouting up across the country. We've seen in these Republican town halls, even in deep red districts. I'm talking R + 10, R + 15, R + 20 or 25. These are districts that are 25 points more conservative than the rest of the nation. And these guys are getting run out of their own town halls because they're being asked questions that they can't defend because of course they can't defend them. They are indefensible. Why are you firing veterans? Is not a question that you have a correct answer for because there is no correct answer for that. And so what is the answer now? Because we've just gotten guidance. We've just seen that Republicans got guidance from the NRCC saying don't hold town halls as opposed to here's the right thing to tell your constituents or stand up for what your constituents are demanding of you. They're saying, screw that, just don't do the town hall halls altogether. And so what can Democrats do to leverage that opening here where, look, there are people in these districts who want answers, rightfully so. And now we know because the guidance has been set down, the clarion call has been issued that Republicans aren't going to go and talk to these folks.
- [64:11]
Chris Murphy
Well, the first thing we can do is tell the whole story, right? And there's not one story about the billionaire takeover of government and then another story about the destruction of democracy. They're the same story, right? Nobody wants the billionaires to have their mitts into our Social Security and our data and our Medicare and our Medicaid. That's super unpopular. Like nobody wants that. See, the only way that you can get away with that, the only way that Elon Musk can get away with that is to try to undermine the rule of law and democracy. Now, you do that just by canceling town halls, but you also do that by weaponizing the Department of Justice to try to, you know, target dissenters, by normalizing political violence. So this story, right, is the same story. The destruction of democracy, which is necessary in order to get away with the theory that is happening. The billionaire stealing from all of us. But Republicans are going to have a hard time hiding. They might not do town halls, but their constituents will show up to their offices. They're going to still do press conferences and school visits and constituents will find them there. And then I think Democrats are going to probably have to sub in, right? We're going to have to go to Republican states and Republican districts and hold town Halls so that, you know, people all across this country, even if their own representatives are denying them the chance to weigh in, have a member of Congress to talk to so we can convene a national conversation.
- [65:29]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Would you be willing to do that?
- [65:30]
Chris Murphy
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Listen, I mean, I've been. I've been lucky in that, you know, over the course of the last couple of months, a lot of people have, you know, invested in me with small, five, ten dollars contributions. I'm going to, you know, find a way to spend that money helping people mobilize all over the country and, you know, most likely target the places where the Republican congressmen are hiding.
- [65:53]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Well, isn't it true that right now this is the easy part? I mean, this is the part where all we have as of right now is a budget resolution directing certain committees to be able to slash funding. So we have 880 billion that would be cut from Energy and Commerce. That's the committee that oversees Medicaid. $230 billion would be cut from the Agriculture Committee. That's the committee that oversees food stamps. So it hasn't happened yet. And Republicans have a layer of protection where they can say, well, I didn't sign my name onto anything that would direct. Medicaid isn't even written in this bill. It merely says that we have to cut $880 billion in funding to energy and Commerce, knowing full well that the only mathematical way to cut $880 billion from energy and Commerce is to cut Medicaid. Same with 230bill from AG is that's the only mathematical way to do that is to gut food stamps. And so aren't we gonna get to the point where eventually we are gonna have to prescribe the specific cuts? And then it's not just theoretical. Then it's not just the firings of veterans, the gutting of education funding, the elimination of cancer research for kids. Then you've also got these massive programs that service tens or hundreds of millions of Americans in Medicaid and food stamps and whatever else they put on the chopping block that they actually do have to put their names on. And so things are only going to get worse for Republicans from here.
- [67:09]
Chris Murphy
Well, and what's wonderful is that they're trying to have it both ways right now. Right? They're out there saying, you know, we just passed a bill to eliminate taxes on tips and taxes on Social Security benefits.
- [67:19]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Right.
- [67:19]
Chris Murphy
None of that's in the bill. Right. None of that's in the bill. But they deny the fact that they are cutting Medicaid. So they want credit for the popular stuff that is in the bill, and they want to ignore the fact that they're going to have to do some deeply unpopular stuff. So, listen, here's where mobilization comes in. They have a super narrow majority in the House. They have a slightly bigger but very narrow majority in the Senate in 2017. The number one thing they said they were going to do was repeal the Affordable Care Act. And they thought they were going to do it. They were sure they were going to do it. And we mobilized. We mobilized all across the country. We made it as impossible as we could. And they couldn't do it. Only by one vote. By one vote, but they couldn't do it. And so here's our job now. Yeah, they passed that, that, that sort of blueprint by one vote. The nasty bill, the bill with the devastating cuts to Medicaid that will literally kick thousands of people off their insurance. They may not be able to pass it if we mobilize. So we still have enormous power in this moment because that final bill, they almost have to get every single Republican to vote for it. And so we only have to pick up two or three or four. And that is totally possible.
- [68:29]
Brian Tyler Cohen
We have the benefit right now, benefit, so to speak, of knowing what their, what their justification to be able to make these cuts are. We know that they're going to come forward and say everything that we're cutting from the budget right now is going to be waste, fraud, and abuse. And so if we see $880 billion clearly, these are just, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of people who are, who are not even alive right now, who are getting Medicaid benefits. We heard in Trump's presidential address that he was going really digging in on this idea that there are tons of people getting Social Security benefits because they're hundreds of years old, 200, 300 years old. And so he's laying the foundation to have some type of a predicate to be able to point to, to justify the impending cuts. And so what do you say to these again, this excuse that we all know they're gonna put forward to try and, to try and explain away the fact that they're making these massive cuts to these, these lifelines for the American people.
- [69:21]
Chris Murphy
Yeah, I mean, listen, I could, like, punch you in the nose and then tell you that I didn't punch you in the nose, but your nose is broken, right?
- [69:28]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Like, you feel it's giving you a lot of credit. Full, full broken nose.
- [69:33]
Chris Murphy
So, so maybe I couldn't get Away with it. But the theory here is that they're going to punch people in the nose, say they didn't punch you in the nose, and think that people won't feel it. If you cut $880 billion out of Medicaid, rural hospitals close, literally millions of people, maybe tens of millions of people lose their health insurance, addiction treatment programs, shut their doors. Like everybody will feel an impact. Why? Because one quarter of Americans, one quarter get their health care from Medicaid. It pays for two thirds of nursing home beds in this country. So they're going to come up with all sorts of excuses about how it's not going to impact people. And then it's going to impact people. And that's going to happen on top of an economy that is either just going to slow or start shrinking. And people are already feeling that. So that opening part of the speech in which he was like, the comeback. Right. The economy is great. Like people don't believe that because they see their costs going up, they register consumer confidence going down, see the stock market tanking.
- [70:34]
Better Sleep App Narrator
Tanking.
- [70:35]
Chris Murphy
Right. So there's just only so much suspension of disbelief that can happen when your nose is broken.
- [70:40]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah. And do you have any worry that right wing media's efforts to kind of insulate people in this bubble and pretend very much in the same way that they were able to say that the economy during the Biden era, which of course was historically strong, was terrible. Do you have any worry that they're gonna be able to insulate folks from the reality of what's going on?
- [70:57]
Chris Murphy
Yeah. And this. I do, I do. And this is where it comes down to McCann. I, I mean, this is a little bit inside, you know, the, the game. But Democrats need to build our own infrastructure to get our message out. The reality is that objective kind of down the middle right journalism still exists, but they have a mechanism to get the lies out. We have to have a mechanism to get the truth out right now. And the truth is the billionaires are taking over the government, Medicaid is going to be destroyed. It's going to impact you. Costs are going to continue to go up. And so we need to make sure that we have the avenues to tell the truth.
- [71:36]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Senator Murphy, I appreciate taking the time.
- [71:38]
Chris Murphy
Appreciate it. Thanks, man.
- [71:41]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Thanks again to aoc, Jasmine Crockett, Raphael Warnock and Chris Murphy. That's it for this episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to no Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graeber, music by Wellesley and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me at brianteller Cohen on all of my other channels. Or you can go to briantylercohen.com to learn more.