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- [00:01]
A
Elon Musk gets it bad in the latest Epstein file release. And I have four interviews. Jim Acosta discusses Don Lemon's arrest. Congressman Jim Himes and Senator Jon Ossoff join to talk about Trump's FBI raid of the Fulton county election office. And Tommy Vitor and I talk about the Melania documentary. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to no Lie. Another Epstein drop means we get more insight into members of the Trump administration and Trump's orbit, who, of course, were involved in some way with Jeffrey Epstein. Like, for example, Steve Bannon, Peter. Peter Thiel, Howard Lutnick, who's Trump's Commerce Secretary, and Kevin Warsh, who's Trump's new pick for Fed Chair. And obviously there were even more accusations against Trump himself in the files. One allegation was that a woman was forced to perform oral sex on him 35 years ago in New Jersey. Another allegation, Trump's accused of regularly paying a 13 year old to perform sex acts on him in the 80s. In another, it states that Trump and Epstein had calendar girl parties at Mar a Lago where girls were auctioned off and then assaulted. But also present in these files was Elon Musk. And that's especially interesting considering Elon tweeted a few months back, time to drop the really big bomb. Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. That's the real reason they've not been made public. Have a nice day, djt. Well, turns out, so was Elon. Like, one email shows Epstein asking Elon in 2012 how many people there will be for the helicopter to the island. To which Elon replies, probably just Tallulah and me. What day night will be the wildest party on your island? And, and remember, that was in 2012. Like, it was already well known that Epstein was engaged in pedophilia by 2006. He was arrested that year on charges of procuring a minor for prostitution. And here was Elon emailing him six years after that. By the way, Tallulah was either his girlfriend or his wife at the time. Very weirdly, as a side note here I had a tiny part in a movie that Tallulah was in. Um, and I met Elon Musk for a second before I knew anything about him. Like, for example, that he had been planning trips to pedophile islands. Anyway, here's another one that's wild. In 2013, Epstein wrote, Any plans for New York? The opening of General assembly has many interesting people coming to the house. Elon replies, I run and lead product design engineering for two complicated companies. Moreover, SpaceX is about to launch what is arguably the most advanced rocket in history. Flying to New York to see UN diplomats do nothing would be an unwise use of time. And Epstein replied, do you think I am retarded? Just kidding. There is NO1 over 25 and all very cute. So what I think happened here is that Epstein was trying to talk in code, being like, hey, the UN assembly is in town. Want to come meet some diplomats? Wink, wink. And Elon thought he was being serious, so he awkwardly listed off his resume and his credentials and he's like, I'm too busy to meet diplomats. At which point Epstein's like, he yeah, dude, I know there are going to be a bunch of young girls at my house. A couple months later that same year, 2013, this was on Christmas Day. Elon was planning a trip to Epstein's island. He wrote to Epstein, I could fly back on the third, meaning January 3rd, we will be in St. Barts. When should we head to your island? On the second. All of which is super interesting, considering Elon tweeted just a few months back in 2025, Epstein tried to get me to go his go to his island, and I refused. Yet they named me even before Prince Andrew, who did visit. But now we've got full access to the emails where Elon was very clearly negotiating dates to go to the island. And at no point did he take some like, valiant, righteous stand against Epstein or his island. He was literally coordinating helicopter pickups. So, look, I. I think I have to offer an apology here. I scoffed at the QAnon people for years while they talked about a cabal of pedophiles. Now, they were a little bit off base when they started pointing to basements of pizza places, but they were right about the pedophiles. Problem is, the team of people they supported to expose it are the cabal. If you were wondering why it's been so difficult to get any movement on these files, it's because it is literally the richest, most well connected people on earth who frequented this guy's island and house and who were connected to him. And we can see how upset they are that they're getting exposed. So, look, Ro Khanna and Thomas Massie, I've spoken to Rokhanna a ton of times on this podcast. They deserve a ton of credit here for doing this work because clearly these people, again, the most powerful people on the planet, are doing their level best to keep all of this under wraps. But where there's smoke, there's fire. And there is a shitload of smoke here right now. Next up are my interviews with Jim Acosta, Jim Himes, Tommy Vitor, and Jon Ossoff. No lie is brought to you by BetterHelp. We get it. February is full of flowers, candy, stuffed animals, and of course, lots of talk about relationships and dating. And no matter where you are, whether you're married or dating or single or just focusing on you, you're right on time. Therapy can help you find your way and see more clearly where you want to be. So if something is weighing your relationships down, this is your opportunity to identify what's getting in the way and help remove any blockers. So why BetterHelp? It has quality therapists. BetterHelp therapists work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the United States. There is a therapist match commitment. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so that you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their more than 12 years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means that they typically get it right the first time. If you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time. From their tailored recommendations, there's also the client reviews. With over 30,000 therapist. BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 6 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. So sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com NOLIE that's betterhelp.com NOLIE. I'm joined now by Jim Acosta. Thanks so much for taking the time.
- [06:08]
B
You got it.
- [06:09]
A
Your former CNN colleague, our friend Don Lemon was arrested yesterday. He's since been let out. But I'm just curious, you know, having worked with him for so long and now occupying the independent media space as he does, have we crossed into a different Rubicon? Have we crossed the Rubicon here? In terms of what you're seeing from the Trump administration as it relates to these attacks on the First Amendment?
- [06:30]
B
Yeah, Brian, I really think we have. I mean, the first thing we have to say is we support Don, we love Don, we send them all our best wishes, and I think this case is gonna get thrown out. There's no chance that Don Lemon is gonna go to jail over this. He was just doing his job. I mean, if you just look at the video of when he went into that church, he says on video, he says, I'm not one of the protesters. I'm here to cover this. I'm a journalist. But I think in terms of the precedent that has been set here, I mean, we cannot go down this road, Brian. We cannot go down the road of jailing journalists in this country for doing their job. And that's what I think Donald Trump is trying to do in his little evil dictator laboratory. He's trying to see. He's trying to poke and prod and see what he can do to harm the press in this country. And we've already seen him do that in going after the corporate media, the legacy media, with the lawsuits against ABC and CBS and going after the Associated Press and so on. And I see this as going after independent media. And that's what really worries me, because, you know, we're not bending the knee over here in independent media, Brian. You know this all too well. Yeah, but if they can start to hurt people over in our neck of the woods, then I think people need to be worried.
- [07:42]
A
Do you have concern personally? I mean, you were a huge target for Trump in his. In his first term. Obviously, he hasn't forgotten that because his whole life is predicated on seeking revenge against his enemies. And so what's your degree of concern?
- [07:57]
B
Yeah, I mean, I guess I would have to be a little bit concerned, given that, you know, he does hold a grudge. I mean, he's been going after Don Lemon for the better part of the last 10 years, and he just can't give this stuff up. But at the same time, what we have to say is we're not going to back down. We're not going to be afraid. We're going to continue to do our jobs. We're going to continue to call this administration out. I mean, this has been a pretty authoritarian week in the presidency of Donald Trump. I mean, look what's happened in just last week, they shot and killed a man in Minneapolis, and Alex Preddy, the FBI raided an election headquarters in Fulton County, Georgia, and then the arrest of Don Lemon. I mean, all three of those things, to me, stand out as hallmarks of an authoritarian regime. And so we have to push back against this stuff, and we can't be afraid.
- [08:47]
A
Yeah, and I think that's an important part. And I think, actually, I know that you noted that we can't be afraid, and I think that's absolutely right. And I also think that, in fact, independent media has a lot more power than I think Trump is willing to admit, although by his actions, he's kind of betraying as much because independent media, this space, can't be bought. Like, we have seen the extent to which it is so easy for Trump to buy off Jeff Bezos. I'm sure that you're going to be popping over to the Melania documentary any, any, any minute now. To buy off.
- [09:17]
B
As a matter of fact.
- [09:18]
A
Yeah. To buy off Jeff Bezos, to buy off CBS News, buy off ABC news with these $16 million lawsuits. To buy off. And so we've seen how easy it is, and frankly, not just legacy media, to buy off universities, to buy off law firms, to buy off tech CEOs, to buy off foreign countries and foreign leaders. But independent media is not overleveraged. Like, we don't have any business in front of the federal government. We don't need approval from the FCC or the, or the FTC or the FAA or whatever. Or whatever it is. Yeah. To do anything. And so I think Trump is able to wield weapons when he knows he's got you bent over a barrel. But legacy. But independent media doesn't have that problem because, you know, it's just, it's just people who are, who are beholden to the truth and the subscribers and viewers who watch on a daily basis, and that's it. And so there is a lot of power, I think, in this independent media space that Trump hasn't figured out how to. Hasn't figured out how to wield his power against. And frankly, Don is a testament to exactly that.
- [10:19]
B
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. I mean, we don't have corporate bosses, you know, that we have to worry about wringing their hands in some boardroom saying, oh, gosh, I wish Brian and Jim would stop criticizing Donald Trump or report on the things that he's done. You're right. We don't have, we have, we don't have those problems. The one thing that I do worry about, though, is by going after Don Lemon, does it send a chilling effect through independent media? And do people in our neck of the woods start to say, well, you know, gosh, I better be careful because they might come after me next? One of the things that they tried to do to me when they took my press pass away back in 2018 was not just to send a message to me in my news organization at that time, cnn, but to send a message to people across the corporate media world, across the legacy media landscape, to say, like, hey, you don't want to end up like Jim. You don't want to end up getting your press pass taken away. Look, look what's happened to Him. And they were celebrating behind the scenes when they, when they did that. You know, Miles Taylor can confirm that. And they did the same thing when they arrested Don Lemon. They were basically celebrating on social media. And, and so people need to understand what this is. These are intimidation tactics that are right out of an authoritarian playbook being carried out by people who act like mobsters. And it's just not the American way. My sense of it is, is that this is gonna backfire spectacularly against Trump and it's going to embolden people like us and independent media, and we're gonna find out that at the end of this, they can't do this. But in the meantime, I mean, we're up against it. I mean, he is trying to figure out a way to hurt us. He's trying to figure out a way to get control of the press. And that is what autocrats have done in places like Russia and Hungary and China and Saudi Arabia. I mean, you look around the world, I say this to folks all the time, look at the countries around the world where they don't have a free press and ask yourself, is this somewhere you want to live? You want to live in China or Saudi Arabia or Iran or North Korea? I don't think so. But these are countries that don't have a free press. And I think there's a direct correlation between that and the quality of life that the people have there.
- [12:29]
A
I think you're so right about, well, everything you said, but especially this idea that independent media is gonna be kind of up against it right now. But I actually think this is a good opportunity to redouble our efforts because think about what happens if he is successful at silencing everybody. Basically think about what the, what the natural conclusion of his efforts is. It's basically, I mean, it's, it's a descent into full blown autocracy, at which point we wouldn't have any power anyway. And so what do we have to lose by just going, going like 10 toes in and making sure to fight back? Because like if we're trying to, to curb what we say or self censor in an attempt to kind of preempt any action against us, okay, so then we silence ourselves. You know, he, he ultimately is successful in the end. And then, and then we're in a world where independent media or any, any pro democracy voices don't have power anyway. And so that's no better. You know, we're not ultimately going to help ourselves in the end. We're just delaying the inevitable. And so I Think of these opportunities where we can either, you know, lean forward and take an aggressive posture and keep speaking out against this administration. This is. This is our only option, frankly, because the alternative in trying to protect ourselves is ultimately just helping Donald Trump in the future.
- [13:49]
B
No, I think that's right. And, I mean, the other thing is, when I had my press pass taken away, we sued and we won, and they had to back down, and they had to give me my press pass back. I hope that Don and his team, that they sue the hell out of Donald Trump and the Justice Department in all of this, because this is trying to deprive him of his constitutional rights to freedom of the press, freedom of speech, and that is the playbook. That is the way we win in all of this. We don't back down, we don't bend the knee, we don't bow down. Look what happened in Davos recently where these countries said, the hell with this. We're not gonna be bullied by Donald Trump. We're gonna stand up to him. And I think the lesson from that experience is that flattery and bending the knee and bowing down doesn't work.
- [14:36]
A
Yep.
- [14:36]
B
It just. It just emboldens him. It makes him want to do it even more. And so it's just like the bully at the playground. He's not going to stop bullying you until you punch him in the nose. Until you. Until you tell him to shut the hell up.
- [14:48]
A
Yeah.
- [14:49]
B
And that is what needs to happen here. I think Don needs to fight back. We all need to fight back. We all need to have his back.
- [14:56]
A
Jim, when you, you know, when you were in the press corps back in the Obama administration, for example, there was an effort to prevent Fox News from being in the press briefing room, if I'm remembering correctly, and all of the other, you know, liberal media outlets, if we're talking everything but Fox News basically, basically banded together to make sure that Fox. That Fox would still be able to be there. Do you think that. How are you thinking about this in terms of the. In light of the fact that, you know, more recently, when we had the ap, the Associated Press get barred from the press briefing room because they wouldn't capitulate to Trump's demands that everybody refer to the Gulf of Mexico as Gulf of America, and frankly, the same outlet, Fox News, that benefited from a collaborative effort from the other outlets, you know, they weren't there to help the apartment. And so how are you kind of thinking about the relationships between these news networks in light of the fact that you had more liberal outlets Stick their neck outs to help a conservative outlet. But when the tables are turned, you know, obviously those conservative outlets are nowhere to be found.
- [16:06]
B
Yeah, I mean, I remember when this happened during the Obama administration, the folks over at Fox, I think they wanted a front seat in the briefing room when one opened up and the other networks argued on their behalf and said that Fox deserves to have this seat. And, you know, I mean, I think at this point, the networks would still do that.
- [16:25]
A
Yeah.
- [16:26]
B
But, you know, it would be nice if it were the other way around, quite honestly. And I think what we've seen lately is a lot of cowardice on the part of legacy media. When the Associated Press was booted out of Air Force One and out of the Oval Office because they wouldn't call the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America, the other news organizations just, you know, acted. They put out some terse, tersely worded statements and so on, but they didn't. They didn't stand united with the Associated Press. And I think it taught Trump the lesson that, hey, he can play divide and conquer with the press. And, you know, look at what happened with the bribes that were paid by CBS and abc. Look what's happened with the Ellisons and Paramount taking over CBS and the installation of Barry Weiss in charge of that network. I mean, this has been.
- [17:11]
A
There's a 75. A $75 million effort to promote a documentary that. That tens of people are going to see right now.
- [17:19]
B
That's right. And in the big tech world, you're right, Jeff Bezos basically paying a bribe to Donald Trump through this bologna documentary in order to curry favor with the administration. It makes you wanna puke. And that is why independent media is so damn important. But I think the only way that this really ultimately nips this in the bud and stops the behavior is if there's collective action. And it seems to me that we need to tell the White House, and I wish the White House press corps would do this, say, listen, we're not going to go in there and take your picture in the Oval Office. We're not going to cover you in Air Force. If you want to have Fox and the Blaze and OAN and all these sycophantic outlets following you around and doing your thing. Fine, go do your thing. Pretend to be a dictator. The emperor has no clothes and so on. But the networks and the mainstream news organizations should not be on the plane with him or be in the Oval Office with him if he's going to act like a tyrant. And it seems to me that, you know, that might start to curb some of this behavior. He'll say, oh, my favorite photographer is not here to take my picture. The one that I like, you know, I love that guy over at the New York Times. He really, he takes nice pictures of me. This is the kind of stuff that Donald Trump actually cares about. So why not hit him where it hurts and take, take that away from him. Maybe it'll start to curb some of that behavior.
- [18:35]
A
And I'm so curious about that because, you know, we often hear that Trump just wants to surround himself with these right wing outlets. But, but the reality is we know Trump wants to be in these clubs. Like when he years and years and years ago, he wanted to own an NFL team and the owners agreed not to allow him to buy an NFL team, and he ended up buying a USFL team and basically ran not only his team, but, but the entire league into the ground. The league was. He bankrupted.
- [19:08]
B
Davos.
- [19:08]
A
Correct.
- [19:09]
B
It's the same thing.
- [19:10]
A
And so I'm curious about this because you're saying here that if the networks deprive him of the oxygen that they can give him, are you saying basically that even though he will rail against these legacy outlets, New York Times, cnn, abc, NBC until he's blue in the face, that in reality he's really looking like it wouldn't be enough for him to just get attention from Breitbart and the Blaze and OAN and Fox, FOX News like it is, even though he rails against them. Does he actually crave the validation from these networks that he so often complains about?
- [19:42]
B
He absolutely does. And, you know, there's some, some missing piece inside of his soul that, that craves this validation on the part of the mainstream press.
- [19:51]
A
Yeah.
- [19:52]
B
And I think, you know, this is a vulnerability on his part and it ought to be exploited, quite frankly. But on top of that, it's just the right thing to do. It's just the right thing to do to stand with our fellow journalists. And this is not a time for people in the networks and the brand name news outlets to be petty and vindictive and be like, well, this person might say, I don't like Don Lemon, so on and so forth. That all has to be tossed to the side. We have to stand on principle here. And the principle is that the freedom of the press is not negotiable. It is not something that can be toyed with. It is not. Once we go down the slippery slope and say, well, you know, I don't like the way Don did this, or that. So I guess, you know, maybe he should spend some time in jail. That. Give me a break. We can't do that in this country. And so, you know, I tell people all the time, if you want to be liked, go be a veterinarian. Journalists are not supposed to be liked. We're not supposed to be everybody's favorite person. We're here to hold people accountable and hold people's feet to the fire. That makes us wildly unpopular, and it pisses people off, but that's a good thing. That's how democracy works. That's how it should work. And Trump has been trying to hurt the press ever since I started covering him back during the 2016 campaign. This is. This is what he's all about. And what we have to do is work collectively to stop this from getting any worse, because, I mean, it seems to me, Brian, we are at the jailing journalists chapter of Donald Trump's authoritarian playbook, and we just can't let it continue.
- [21:25]
A
Well, look, you know, you are stepping up in a big way. I know that. That I can speak for myself and a lot of people who are watching right now and saying that we're very grateful for the fact that your voice is out there right now on independent media. Can you let folks who are watching, listening right now know where they can find you?
- [21:41]
B
Yeah, I mean, I'm doing the Jim Acosta show on Substack, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, anywhere you can get your podcasts. So. So check me out there. And, you know, we're. We're not holding back at this point, Brian. Just like I know you're not holding back. It's. It's just that kind of moment. It's. The ST are too high, and we've just got to have Don's back in all of this. That's the way I feel.
- [22:01]
A
Yeah, I second all of that, Jim. I appreciate all the work that you're doing and the time today.
- [22:06]
B
You bet. Thanks, Brian.
- [22:10]
A
No lie is brought to you by Ridge. Okay, right off the bat, I love my Ridge wallet. It's carbon fiber, so it looks great. And importantly, it's got RFID blocking technology. So there's something called RFID skimming, which basically allows scammers to steal sensitive information by scanning your electronic devices or credit cards or keys. To prevent that, you want to keep your cards in an RFID blocking wallet, which is exactly what Ridge offers. There's also the fact that Ridge wallets have a magnetic back so that I could stick to my phone, which is super convenient. Anyway, I absolutely love it, it has everything that I could ask for. I could not recommend it higher. Simple as that. Ridge wallets have a unique, slim modern design that hold up to 12 cards plus cash. They're made with premium materials like aluminum, titanium and like mine is carbon fiber. There are over 50 colors and styles to choose from and Ridge products have a lifetime warranty. This is literally the last wallet that you'll ever have to buy and There are over 100,000 5 star reviews and they check out. Trust me. And keep in mind, Ridge isn't just about wallets. They create premium everyday carry essentials like power banks, key cases which I also have suitcases, rings, all built with the same sleek, durable design. And no matter what you pick, Ridge has free shipping, a 99 day risk free trial and a lifetime warranty on all their products. For a limited time. Our listeners get 10% off at Ridge by using code BTC at checkout. Just head to ridge.com and use code BTC and you're all set. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them our show sent you. I'm joined now by the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, Jim Himes. Thanks so much for joining me.
- [23:46]
C
Great to be with you, Brian.
- [23:48]
A
So, Congressman, we watched as the FBI executed a search warrant to seize ballots from the 2020 election in Atlanta. Curiously, Tulsi Gabber, the Director of National Intelligence was there first and foremost. Can you give us some indication of what Congress is doing to get some answers on this? Recognizing that the administration isn't willing to give any.
- [24:07]
C
Yeah, yeah. And let's start why this is such a big deal. Because you know, the deputy Attorney General, of course, you know, his, his, his approach to when asked was, well, nothing to see here, folks. This is just normal course of business. It is anything but normal course of business. There is a very bright line between the intelligence community, which has massive surveillance power, operational capabilities, you know, guys with guns. There is a very bright line between what they do and the borders of the United States and the participation of a very high profile, the Director of National Intelligence, IC individual in a bizarre law enforcement action is, I'm not going to say unprecedented because there is the narrowest of areas where there might be a role for the intelligence community. But a very high profile figure is a very, very big deal. And so you asked what do we do about it? The moment this broke and needless to say, nobody in the intelligence community felt like they had to inform either the chairman or the ranking member of The Senate and the House Intelligence Committee. But the moment we learned about it, we wrote a letter and, you know, demanding answers on this issue. Now, you know, I suspect I know the answer. Right. Tulsi Gabbard has watched in the last three months as the administration of which she is a part, has done everything that she spent a lifetime despising in terms of intervention abroad. And of course, the Oval Office knows that. And so she was sidelined. Not a single presentation in which Tulsi Gabbard was present. That's an existential threat to Tulsi Gabbard's self image. Right. And so I think this is partly an effort to get back on the President's good side, because we know that this President will be very, very happy to mess an election if it doesn't go his way. But it is also just a remarkable showing of disdain for this bright line between the actions of the intelligence community and law enforcement actions.
- [26:04]
A
In terms of actually getting some answers here, I would presume there needs to be some degree of buy in from your Republican counterpart, the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee. Does it, does it seem, based on your interactions with them, that there's any interest from your Republican colleagues to get some answers on this issue?
- [26:21]
C
Look, I mean, you, you know, you, you see the same thing that I see, which is that there is no limit to the rationalization which Republicans will employ to avoid having conversations or doing things that might piss off Donald Trump. Right. So, you know, there'll be some story, and I haven't spoken to either Tom Cotton or Rick Crawford, but there'll be some story that is consistent with what the Deputy Attorney General said, like, oh, well, we didn't know, we didn't see it. I don't know what the facts are. You know, if this, of course, had been Joe Biden's Director of National Intelligence, of Real Levy, you know, real Haynes, you know, we would have already seen articles of impeachment, the building would be burning, and, you know, right wing media would be going out of their minds over the fascist takeover of the United States. So, look, that's the reality in which I work. But we're, we're going to get to the bottom of this.
- [27:19]
A
You had mentioned the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanche earlier. He was actually asked about this issue and he was asked to explain Tulsi Gabbard's role in DOJ activity. Given that she's not in the doj, she's the Director of National Intelligence. I'm going to throw to a clip right now of how Todd Blanche responded to that question.
- [27:36]
D
Could you please explain Tulsi Gabbard's role in DOJ activity regarding the Fulton county search?
- [27:42]
E
What do you mean, her role?
- [27:45]
A
It was reported that she was.
- [27:47]
E
She happened to be present in Atlanta. I mean, yes, I saw the same photos you did. I mean, she's not. She doesn't work for the Department of Justice or the FBI. She's an extraordinarily important part of this administration. This administration coordinates everything we do as a group. And so I think her presence shouldn't. Bethe. Shouldn't be questioned. Of course, that's a big part of her job. And so the fact that she was present in Atlanta that day, you know, is something that shouldn't surprise anybody.
- [28:20]
A
Okay, so that was the deputy attorney general saying that Tulsi Gabbard just so happened to be present in Atlanta, because who among us doesn't just find ourselves in the middle of an FBI search warrant being executed? Can I have your reaction to that statement from Todd Blanche?
- [28:34]
C
Yeah, I mean, it's just absurd, right? I mean, I think Todd Blanche is a lawyer, right? I mean, it used to be that if you were the number two, it's Justice Department, you probably had some legal understanding. So Todd Blanche understands what is involved when an enormously powerful entity, a spy entity, the intelligence community, is operating inside the US and how completely unacceptable that is. You know, again, the fact that he sort of dabbed it, nothing to see here, you know, suggests to me that he wasn't going to be the one. You just asked me about Republicans. He wasn't going to be the one to say, yeah, that's a good question. We ought to, we ought to look into that. Right. And, but, but, but it's not just. Let's, let's back up a second here. The intelligence community does have a role in sussing out foreign interference in our elections. Now, by the way, the Trump administration is completely opposed to that notion because they're so allergic to the fact that Russia intervened twice to try to elect Donald Trump. Three times, actually, twice successfully. So, you know, we've seen people who do election integrity work, who monitor elections, who look for foreign efforts to alter our elections, fired, sidelined, taken out of the equation, but nonetheless, if you were going to give the benefit of the doubt to this administration, which you are not going to do, because we know that Donald Trump will pull out all the stops to alter the result of elections that he doesn't like, you would say, well, maybe Tulsi Gabbard and the, and the intelligence community was Looking for foreign interference. Well, you know, if you were doing that, you know, you'd be doing cyber work, you'd be talking about intelligence collection, you'd be talking to the nsa. You would not be physically showing up in Fulton County, Georgia.
- [30:15]
A
Is there some concern that by virtue of bringing Tulsi Gabbard in and trying to kind of shoehorn this idea that this is part of some broader international criminal conspiracy, I mean, Trump himself had amplified a tweet or a post on Truth Social. And I'm going to read a little bit of it to give you an idea of, you know, the mental gymnastics that they're jumping through to try and, to try and manifest this into reality. Maria Zak testified about the stolen 2020 election operation connected to Obama when he diverted $400 million from the infamous pallets of cash sent to Iran, funneling through the Dubai embassy to operatives in Italy and Merrill lynch in Geneva, Switzerland. In return, Italian officials at Leonardo Spa use military satellites to help hack US Voting machines. Flipping votes from Trump to Biden using CIA developed tools like Hammer and Scorecard, along with numerous other methods of fraud and manipulation, goes on to invoke China, the CIA, the FBI, Joe Biden. So this is the kind of stuff that they're dealing with. And that was amplified not by some underling or lackey, that was amplified by Donald Trump himself, the President of the United States. And so is there some concern that Tulsi Gabbard being there, is an effort to shoehorn into reality this idea that there was some foreign interference to try and prove election, that the election was rigged in 2020, all so that as we head toward 2026, they can say, well, look, we were right about the election being rigged in 2020. And so now, recognizing all of this crime that's happening right under our noses, that was hidden by Joe Biden and the communist Marxist Democrats, we have to take extraordinary steps to really secure our elections. And that means we got to send the military, and that means we need to seize voting machines. So all basically using this as a pretext to be able to, to, you know, engage in these voter suppression efforts or efforts to undermine our elections.
- [32:10]
C
Yeah, I mean, exactly. Right, right. I mean, all that was missing from that post was, you know, Elvis coming back from the dead, bring back Richard Nixon, or, I mean, you know, just the sheer insanity of the conspiracy theories. And that was like 15 conspiracy theories wrapped up in one. And remember, none of these conspiracy theories turned out to be anywhere close to accurate. In fact, some of the stuff that wasn't Even crazy didn't turn out to be accurate. The 60 attempts, you know, lawsuits that Giuliani and his merry band of lunatics brought, every single one of them turned back. So what worries me here, and you put your finger on it, is that, you know, what the Trump administration does is they try to make us comfortable over time with outrageous things, right? So border patrol agents masked without insignia kitted up as though they were about to fast rope into Fallujah to capture an Al Qaeda terrorist. You know, no, let's get used to the notion that these guys are just wandering around our city streets. Two years ago we would have said, that's not our country, that's Chile under Pinochet, right? But they get us used to, to these things because, you know, folks are busy and they get, they get comfortable with stuff they should never get comfortable with. So what's the next step now? Are we going to be asked to get comfortable with the idea that the CIA is going to pay visits to the local registrars of voters? I mean, that directionally is where they want to take this. And yes, of course, it's in the service of these conspiracy theories which more often than not come back to bite them in the ass, right? It's the Epstein syndrome. You know, let Tulsi Gabbard investigate the insane Italy theory. And, and you know, at some point she bumps into the fact based universe where it turns out that there's nothing there. And then she's got a choice, right? She can either say that there's nothing there, that in fact, you know, there's not a pizza place in Washington, D.C. where they're, Hillary Clinton is coordinating the kidnapping of young children. They can either say that, oh, you know, we were just lying like Don Bongino basically did when he was deputy at the, at the FBI, or they can continue to, you know, bump into a court of law where a judge is going to say, you people are out of your mind. So, you know, again, it's, what really worries me here is that over time they want us to get used to the idea that the vast surveillance powers and the capabilities and the authorities of the CIA and the nsa, well, maybe it's okay if they operate inside the United States because we're going to lose our country otherwise.
- [34:34]
A
Can you talk a little bit about what you would be able to do in Congress if the Democrats are able to regain a majority after November? Like what, what does, what does the, the efforts to kind of quash Trump's overreach look like from, you know, from the actual Majority.
- [34:52]
C
Right, right. So, I mean, a couple of things. You know, number one, Mark Warner and I wrote a letter to the office of the Director of National Intelligence asking for a specific explanation. I know what we're getting back. If anything, it's going to be something like what Todd Blanche said. Nothing to see here. Well, you know, what if we're in the majority and I have subpoena power, or we have subpoena power, the Director of National Intelligence is coming in for a hearing to be questioned by us and by our counsel.
- [35:22]
A
Right.
- [35:22]
C
And, you know, lie to us. Please lie to us. Because lying to the Congress, the United States, you know, will, first of all, indicate your character and, you know, really create a problem or don't lie to us.
- [35:37]
A
Right.
- [35:37]
C
Which is, of course, the preferable outcome. And in the majority, we'll have that much more control over the resources. And so, call me crazy, but we might just say, hey, Tulsi, you can have a little bit more money if you're going after terrorists or spying on the Chinese or the Russians, but you get no more money for performative maga. Make the President feel good about me theatrics.
- [36:02]
A
You know, when you were alluding to the idea of hauling these people in front of Congress and basically challenging them to lie to you, practically speaking, if they lie, I mean, yes, it's a crime lying to Congress, but it's up to the DOJ to be able to enforce it, and this DOJ isn't gonna enforce it. And so, in a way, don't they kind of have a get out of jail free card if they want to lie to Congress, recognizing that Pam Bondi is never gonna hold them to account?
- [36:25]
C
Sure. And, I mean, look, let's just be very straight and honest about this. Not only is it that, but, you know, thank you, John Roberts. Thank you, John Roberts. Because I'll tell you what we're going to see over the course of the back half of the Trump administration, everyone from Tulsi Gabbard to the guy who, you know, arrested Don Lemon in. In Minneapolis to the folks who shot the two people, every single one of them is getting a pardon. Right. That is a unappealable thing. And thank you, John Roberts, for saying that the President himself, in the performance of his official duties, is completely unaccountable, you know, in the way Emperor Maximilian or Pinochet or Stalin would have dreamed of. So, yeah, I mean, thank you. Thank you to John Roberts and the Supreme Court for setting up a system where an unaccountable president can use an unappealable mechanism to basically create a praetorian crime wing that is completely unaddressable. Now, we're going to try to do something about that because there will be a different Justice Department at some point down the line. And, you know, again, barring a full pardon, which I would expect for somebody like Tulsi Gabbard or anybody else involved in this stuff, you know, we will work for accountability.
- [37:39]
A
Last question here, and that is that, that you. You had noted that you sent this letter in an effort to, like, push back against. Against the idea that a strongly worded letter is ever sufficient. Is there anything that that can be done beyond the letter? Again, recognizing the limitations that we have by virtue of Democrats being in the minority, but also kind of pushing back against the idea that the only thing that we could ever do is just to send strongly worded letters? Yeah, yeah.
- [38:08]
C
And I mean, I appreciate the question. And the answer is that even in the minority, I have tools. We have tools that are important to pass a budget, to get the Intelligence Authorization act, which is what determines the authorities and the budget for the entire intelligence community, you basically need sign off from what they call the four corners, the chairman and the ranking members. That's an example. And you know what? If they keep showing the kind of disdain that they are showing, that will be involved. That will be. There will be implications in their budget. Much more so if we're in the majority than if we're in the minority. But they will be there. And secondarily, you know, they have goals. And I'll give you one example. Right. Eventually, the administration is going to wake up to the fact that they need to reauthorize FISA 702. Right. This is a surveillance authority targeted at foreigners. And we don't need to get into all the ins and outs of 702. But it's controversial, right? And at some point, they're gonna wake up and realize, oh, my God, we have to reauthorize this authority that basically provides 60%, 60% of the intelligence that goes into the President's daily brief. We haven't done a damn thing. Unlike the Biden administration, which mobilized people months in advance. And they're gonna say, hey, Himes, we need your help reauthorizing this authority without which Donald Trump is gonna get pinned with a terrorist attack. And at that point, I'm going to say, well, that's funny, you know, because you have shown me nothing but disdain for the last two years. So tell me again why, why I should work in partnership with you after you have, you know, politicized and weaponized and shown Congress utter disdain. That also is a tool.
- [39:41]
A
All right, well, we'll leave it there. Congressman Himes, thanks so much for taking the time.
- [39:44]
C
Thanks a lot, Brian.
- [39:49]
A
No lie is brought to you by ZBiotics. So what is the one small shift I've actually maintained this year? Reclaiming my mornings, I realized that a night of fun shouldn't cost me an entire day of productivity. So my shift is planning a balanced night out to ensure a high quality morning after. I rely on Zebiotics Pre Alcohol to support that goal and keep my social life and my wellness goals aligned. Zebiotics Pre Alcohol Probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. So here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this by product down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Every time I have pre alcohol before drinks, I notice a difference the next day. Even after a night out, I can confidently plan on being on camera without worry, which was basically impossible before I'd have that glossy look I couldn't concentrate. That's not even on my radar anymore, thanks to Zebiotics. If you're ready to give it a try, go to ZBiotics.com BTC now. You'll get 15% off your first order when you use BTC at checkout. Plus it's backed by a 100% money back guarantee, so there's no risk. Subscriptions are also available for maximum consistency. Remember to head to zebiotics.com BTC and use the code BTC at checkout for 15% off. I'm joined now by the co host of Pozzi of America, Tommy Vitor. Tommy, thanks for joining me.
- [41:18]
E
Thanks for having me.
- [41:19]
A
Greg Bovino is out. Tom Holman is in. To what extent do you believe the Trump administration in their effort to try and convince people that this is a kinder, softer CBP and ICE operation that's happening now that now that Bovino is not in anymore.
- [41:34]
E
Tom and Greg, weren't those the buddies from Succession?
- [41:36]
A
Yeah.
- [41:36]
E
Yes, I bet they're not as this is not quite as fun of a pair. Look, I think that Bovino, you know Seems like he's a scapegoat so far. I mean, hopefully Homan has taken the lesson that, you know, physically assaulting American citizens, murdering American citizens, not only is it a horrible thing to do for a bunch of constitutional and moral reasons, but also Donald Trump didn't like how it looked on tv. And so they reign that shit in a little bit. It sounds like they're. Under Homan, there will be more efforts just to, like, get individuals out of jails and prisons and not necessarily do these sort of a constant drive around broad sweeps and picking up everybody, but we'll see. I think ultimately, like, this is a policy driven by Donald Trump and Stephen Miller. It's gonna look like a policy driven by Donald Trump and Stephen Miller. Greg Bevino sucks. CBP is reportedly responsible for a lot of the worst abuses that we've all been seeing on our screens. But I'm not hopeful that this will be a kind and gentle policy.
- [42:33]
A
And that's the part I want to dig into a little bit here, because my concern in all of this is that Trump will trot out Tom Homan and. And make it look like accountability is being done by virtue of Greg Bovino being cast aside. But again, as. As you. As you alluded to, like, this policy didn't come from Greg Bovino. He's not directing policy. It comes from Donald Trump. The only way he feels emboldened to act the way that he acted is because Donald Trump gave him the green light to know that he could act that way. And so Trump is still there even if Bovino is not. And so, you know, my concern in all of this is that the broader media, the broader narrative, because that's what Trump cares about. At the end of the day, they're going to see Bovino out homing in and be able to say, oh, well, Trump is being responsive to the needs of Americans. He understands how bad it was. And now we're going to get something different. Of course, I'm sure, you know, they'll feed legacy media a bunch of dhs, you know, boilerplate memos that have sent out lies that have been sent out and that. And that they'll. They'll kind of just regurgitate that to people because, you know, because either that's what they're accustomed to doing, which is just, you know, vomiting out whatever the administration fed them, or because they're owned by the administration. Barry Weiss is there because she's going to be a mouthpiece for this administration. And so are you concerned that. That the. That the media narrative surrounding all of this is going to, is going to kind of redound to Trump's benefit and that they're going to get what they want.
- [43:54]
E
Look, I think in Minnesota it's going to be like a put up or shut up moment. You know, I think hopefully without Bovino and CBP running the show that it will reduce some of the most aggressive tactics on the margins. Now if that doesn't happen, we're all going to see it. Right. Because these people in Minnesota are going to be on the streets, they're going.
- [44:12]
A
To be recording regardless of whether Bovino's there or Tom Holm is there.
- [44:15]
E
Yeah, I mean that's what's actually inspiring about this story is the way that everyone in the Twin Cities has stepped up to protect their community, has, has, you know, followed these ICE agents around and warned people. It's filmed these interactions, like that's why we know about all of this. So if that continues, we'll have a real time reading on what's happening. But I agree with you. I mean, there's clearly an effort right now to like spin a narrative that this will be a kinder, gentler version of ice and like, I'll believe it when I see it.
- [44:44]
A
In terms of the future of ice, I've spoken to a lot of elected officials over the course of the past week. I've asked almost all of them what their thoughts are about abolishing ICE entirely. And the reason I ask this is because like, of course you can reform any agency, like any agency can be reformed. But I think that the way ICE has kind of staffed that agency with a, was with a very specific messaging. Like, I mean they're using straight up like white nationalists, like Nazi stuff. Correct. And so, so I don't know that it's salvageable when the basis for bringing all of these people in was like straight up Nazi messaging. Like how do you better training for people who are only in that agency because they believe in like a white ethnostate. And so I'm just curious, but at the same time, I mean there is also, I can, I can see how there is like concern that Democrats don't want to fall into the same. Defund the, defund the police trap from, you know, five, six years ago. So I'm just curious where you stand on this issue because I've heard from most elected officials, at least progressives are pretty clear eyed in terms of coming out and saying abolish ice.
- [45:48]
E
Yeah, it's a hard one. It's like, you know, I don't want to jump into a time warp and suddenly like make this about a debate from 2018.
- [45:54]
A
Right. Or a debate about semantics.
- [45:56]
C
Right?
- [45:56]
E
Yeah, exactly. And I think it's a general political rule, like voters don't want to hear that you're going to abolish something. They want to hear what you're going to do about it. I think in the near term, Schumer is going to approach these negotiations over funding with a reform message. And I think that's probably the smartest politically. And given the very limited power that Democrats have, the most likely path to getting some changes around the margins that obviously are not enough, but are maybe the best you can do during the Trump administration. I think long term, if I could do a magic wand, I think you get rid of the Department of Homeland Security. It was created after 9 11.
- [46:31]
A
Yeah.
- [46:31]
E
Fucking monstrous monstrosity of an agency. Makes absolutely no sense. Because the problem I have with abolish ICE is one, cbp, as we've been discussing, and Bavino and all these cowboys at Border Patrol, they're just as much part of the problem too. What happens with them. Two, what the Department of Homeland Security did was it took all these immigration focused agencies and shove them under the rubric of counterterrorism when that's sort of like not how I think we want to think about who we let in our country. Like, obviously vetting is part of it, but like immigrants make great contributions and like, you know, the border, you know, there's tax issues involved.
- [47:07]
A
Right. To immediately sort like CBP into counterterrorism. Like already puts them on the back foot, like to like you're pre. Assuming you're prejudging anybody who comes in under that lens.
- [47:19]
E
And it's like, it's like military further militarizing our law enforcement. And that's a bad thing. And we've seen a lot of that since you're Iraq war. Like all these local police departments and agencies have like stuff that was used on the battlefield in Iraq and like gear and kits and cars and shit. It's just like, we gotta get away from that.
- [47:35]
A
Tommy, we have a goodbye message from Greg Bovino that I want to show you and get your take on team.
- [47:41]
C
Behind me are a few individuals there. That's the original turn and burn the folks that help make America. But you know what? I'm very proud of what you, the mean green machine are doing in Minneapolis right now. Just like you've done it across the United States over these past tough nine months. And I want you to Know that you're the modern day equivalent Turn and Burn makes me very proud. I also want you to know that I've got your back now and always. I love you, I support you, and I salute you.
- [48:16]
A
No, Tommy, stop saluting.
- [48:18]
B
Stop.
- [48:18]
A
Stop saluting, Tommy. No.
- [48:20]
E
It's so weird to say I love you during your work with I love you.
- [48:23]
A
Like you're my whole thing is so. Is so bizarre. And it, like, it's giving. It's giving like 80s movie villain, you know?
- [48:31]
B
Yeah.
- [48:31]
E
It's giving me a little bit of Kevin Spacey and American Beauty vibes. Like he's about to kill you. Like I love you, murder you. Turn and burn. What does that mean? Is that what he does? When he cropped us the office on Chili Day.
- [48:44]
A
What did you. What did you say? People were calling him online on Twitter.
- [48:49]
E
I saw one Third Reich. One Third Reich, which I think is honestly genius.
- [48:53]
A
Yeah. For an administration so focused on optics, to let this guy go out in the street dressed like a brown coat is just. It's a choice.
- [49:00]
E
So little to see.
- [49:02]
A
So little to see. It's a big coat.
- [49:05]
E
It's a big coat. Yeah. In real life, it's this extra large, big coat. What a dickhead.
- [49:12]
A
Well, speaking of, speaking of these officials and Trump administration aligned people who are absolute clowns, we have one more. A little bit of. A little bit rough on the transition.
- [49:22]
E
I like battery transition.
- [49:23]
A
Melania Trump has a. Has a big movie coming out this. This weekend. I know, Tommy, you brought a bunch of tickets to see Melania in theaters.
- [49:31]
E
Bringing my kids.
- [49:31]
A
Bringing your kids.
- [49:32]
E
Can't wait.
- [49:33]
A
What are your thoughts on the fact that this movie was paid for basically as a bribe by Jeff Bezos? I think he gave. I think he paid $40 million.
- [49:42]
E
40 million.
- [49:42]
A
That's it. $40 million for a movie that nobody asked for and very likely nobody wants to see. There's been these tweets and posts all over the Internet of major theaters. 1 I'm sure you saw the one in Boston commons with like literally 00 seats having been sold for like the opening night showing.
- [50:00]
E
When I see that image, I just see opportunity, you know, to go see a great film.
- [50:04]
A
That's right.
- [50:05]
E
Like, it's hard to overstate how much money $40 million is for a documentary, like, for a feature film. It's still pretty expensive for a documentary that's like.
- [50:12]
A
Well, it's especially expensive in an era where. Where the entertainment industry is. Is hurting so badly. Collapsing. Yeah. We're in Los Angeles. The entertainment industry is on life support out here and have any projects have the opportunity to be gifted $40 million. I mean, you can, you can greenlight God knows how many movies on that with that amount of money, but instead it was just basically handed to Melania Trump so that they can, you know, offer up the viewing pleasure to tens of viewers out there.
- [50:39]
E
Yeah, but wait, it gets worse. They're spending an additional $35 million on global marketing. Amazon is. So this is a $75 million all in documentary, by the way. You know, it's not going to be interesting because Melania produced it. Like, I'm sure she has final cut.
- [50:51]
A
I hear it's gonna be the best.
- [50:54]
E
The director is a guy named Brett Ratner who was basically like written out of Hollywood because he'd sexually assaulted so many people. But now this fucking film is airing in like 1500 theaters. And also apparently, Trump is apparently reportedly forcing Paramount to also make Rush Hour 4, which Brett Ratner directed.
- [51:15]
A
Brett Ratner, Jesus Christ, My favorite director.
- [51:19]
E
You sound like. We decided he sounded like either Robin Williams doing Mork and Mindy or Andy Kaufman.
- [51:24]
A
And the sad part is this is the second video where I've now done that voice. So I know I haven't watched the first video that we shot yet where I did that.
- [51:32]
E
I think it's impressive.
- [51:33]
A
And now I'm gonna. I will cringe when I watch that one and then be horrified to know that I have a second video coming out with the voice. You know, that's okay. But I think I am the best.
- [51:41]
E
At it because the movie, Brian, just for folks who are wondering, should I go see this? Will it be interesting? It's about the 20 days leading up to Trump's second inauguration.
- [51:51]
A
Sign me up.
- [51:52]
E
So we follow Melania, like, I guess flying from New York to D.C. a bunch.
- [51:57]
A
Yeah, we follow Melania. Not talking to. Not sleeping in the same bed as Donald.
- [52:01]
E
Not looking Donald in the eye, not loving him. Baron doing weird stuff.
- [52:05]
A
What is it? Trying to.
- [52:06]
C
Trying to.
- [52:07]
A
Never mind.
- [52:08]
E
Tell me. Wait, what are you saying?
- [52:10]
A
I don't think I can.
- [52:11]
E
Just popping aspirins.
- [52:14]
A
Yeah, I'll leave it there.
- [52:14]
E
Yeah, aspirin, that's what. It's a bribe. It's outrageous. It's disgusting. It's like just one of these egregious, I guess, legalized bribes that we're seeing all over the place from big businesses and.
- [52:25]
A
And we can't wait to tune in tonight in theaters. So I'll pick you up at 6.
- [52:29]
E
Oh, I'm gonna get you the commemorative Melania popcorn bucket for only 12.99.
- [52:34]
A
God knows I'll need it. God knows it's one of those things I'll be using in the future.
- [52:38]
E
What if it's just like a 15 minute documentary?
- [52:41]
A
That would actually be the best part of it.
- [52:42]
E
Yeah, it would be the best.
- [52:43]
A
Well, look, the reality is that we are seeing these big media conglomerates like Amazon heap fucking tons of money into the Trump administration. $75 million for a documentary that nobody wants to see and nobody asked for is a testament to exactly that. What we're seeing at CBS is a testament to that. The fact that CBS paid $16 million, ABC News paid $16 million to Donald Trump. So they own all of these different platforms. David Ellison, his consortium now owns the US arm of TikTok.
- [53:14]
E
And yeah, it seems bad, huh?
- [53:16]
A
Seems bad. Elon has, has Twitter. And so, you know, we're seeing more and more right wing voices. Right wing outlets continue to own the algorithms that control what people can see. So a small step that we can take to counteract that is to subscribe to progressive media outlets. There's no better one than crooked media. So I'm going to put the link to Pod Save America right here on the scre. I'll also put the link to this channel on the screen.
- [53:38]
E
Subscribe to Brian's channel.
- [53:39]
A
If you're not yet subscribed to both of them, go ahead to subscribe. It is completely free to do so. It helps elevate our work a little bit. Tommy, as always, thanks for the time.
- [53:47]
E
Great to see you.
- [53:50]
A
I'm joined now by the US Senator in Georgia, Jon Ossoff. Senator, thanks so much for joining me.
- [53:55]
D
Brian, good to see you.
- [53:56]
B
Thank you.
- [53:57]
A
So we have a lot of breaking news as it relates to your position in the Senate, as it relates to Georgia. So I want to first start off with the news that the FBI has executed a search warrant at the Fulton county elections office, and that's near Atlanta. We have seen so many instances of Donald Trump and his law enforcement agencies weaponizing the government. Is this just one more instance of exactly that?
- [54:18]
D
I suspect that's exactly what it is. And remember, Georgia has been at the center of Donald Trump's conspiracy theories about the 2020 elections and his schemes to overturn that election. From the very beginning, the phone call where he pressures Georgia's state election officials to, quote, find him the votes he needed to win in a state he had lost. The conspiracy theories about what happened in Georgia that helped gin up the mob that sacked the United States Capitol on his behalf and tried to prevent the peaceful transfer of power. Some of what he did, trying to press the Department of Justice into improperly intervening in that election, happened in Georgia, triggering the resignation at the time of DOJ officials in Georgia. So I don't know exactly the circumstances and details of this raid. I expect that we'll learn more very soon. But what I can tell you is that we are witnessing a president who is wielding the apparatus of state, who is using the entirety of the federal government and federal law enforcement as an instrument to pursue personal vendettas, to pursue vengeance and retribution against people he believes are his enemies, and to pursue conspiracy.
- [55:41]
A
Theories to that end. I mean, as far as this presidency and the abuses are concerned, one area of particular focus, obviously is ice. Now, you're in the Senate right now. There is a lot of talk about whether this DHS funding bill is going to pass alongside the rest the of of the budget or if it's gonna be spun out. Is there any update you can give in terms of where that whole process stands? And beyond that, is there a commitment by the Democratic Senate caucus to not fund DHS in light of the abuses that we're seeing right now?
- [56:18]
D
I can assure you that this measure does not have the votes to proceed this week unless that portion is removed or significant protections for civil liberties are added. And the American people are appalled by what they've seen in Minnesota. This is about our core civil liberties and our constitutional rights. Just read the Bill of Rights. The core guarantees at the founding of our republic that animated the American Revolution. The rights to peaceably assemble and to dissent and to speak. The right to the sanctity of our bodies in our homes against searches without warrants, equal justice under the law. What we've seen in Minnesota, the lawless chaos, the beatings and killings of Americans. American homes with doors beaten down and masked agents raiding in without so much as a judge's warrant. The immediate slander of Americans killed by federal agents with political appointees in Washington calling those dead Americans terrorists and immediately trying to cover up the facts of their killings. This is the kind of thing that you see in authoritarian societies, and it is deeply corrosive to our fundamental civil liberties. And look, here's the thing. We're hearing some of that now cautiously, but some of it from even Republicans in the Senate. And what we need to do is persuade some of those Republicans to join us in reforming and reining in an out of control federal agency.
- [58:15]
A
So, Senator, one of the options that you gave, you know, if there are to be any Democrats who sign onto this effort to fund DHS in any way is assurances that there's gonna be protections for civil liberties. But I mean, any assurances that this federal government gives are hardly worth the paper that they're printed on. And so how can you even trust when you know, the same people who would commit these atrocities in the first place and then have enough, you know, shame, have no shame, to the point where they can lie about it in such a bald faced manner when they say, oh, yeah, we're totally, definitely gonna protect civil liberties. How is that even enough given the fact that they could, you know, that their word isn't worth anything?
- [58:54]
D
Well, two points. First of all, that's why we need to pursue these protections for civil liberties in the law and not merely promises and assurances from the executive branch. But look, here's the second point. This administration is out of control. And even if we are able to make positive changes to the law that better protect American civil liberties, when you have these kinds of people who are unbound by any commitment to the truth, who act with alarming frequency outside of the law, who try to defy federal judges, the only real solution here, the only enduring solution, is victory in the midterm elections. The only real solution is for the American people to restore checks and balances. By voting in such overwhelming numbers that we decisively rebuke this depth of corruption, these appalling abuses of power, and by voting in such decisive numbers that we deliver a landslide, that the schemes that they will inevitably hatch to try to foil the will of the people, just like he did back in 2020, cannot silence us.
- [60:18]
A
So I'm glad you brought up the election. One of the Republicans running in the primary for the US Senate seat in Georgia, which will ultimately be against you, is Mike Collins. And in response to a big walkout that happened today, an anti ICE walkout, which I think the vast majority of this country would think is certainly justified in light of the fact that these rogue ICE agents, the secret police force, seems to have taken a liking to just executing people in the streets, unarmed people in the streets. With obviously the latest one being a nurse at the va, Alex Preddy, who was brandishing his cell phone. Apparently that's a crime in this country. Mike Collins took to Twitter and I'm gonna put that tweet right here on the screen. He said, this Georgia high school staged a massive anti ice walkout. This school has 6% math proficiency and 16% reading proficiency. Our problem isn't ice. Our problem is woke indoctrination so he's basically suggesting. Not exactly subtle language here, that anybody walking out to protest what's happening against ICE is stupid. So can I have your reaction to Mike Collins tweet here? Yeah.
- [61:21]
D
Well, I think it's disgraceful. And look, none of my opponents, none of my opponents will even call for an independent and transparent investigation of Mr. Preddy's killing in Minnesota. This is the killing of an American citizen by federal agents. They are all my opponents so desperately grasping for Donald Trump's endorsement that they're afraid even to call for an independent investigation of the killing of an American by federal law enforcement. And I want to return to the thing that you picked out there that I think people have really found so disgraceful, which is the way the White House or Kristi Noem have slandered these Americans in death, Americans gunned down by federal agents who are immediately branded as terrorists by their own government. It just demonstrates the complete lack of integrity of this administration, their total contempt for the American people and our fundamental rights.
- [62:34]
A
Well, frankly, what Mike Collins said is relatively tame compared to what another Republican running in the primary said, and that is Buddy Carter, who asked Donald Trump for ICE to target Atlanta. So, in light of what we've seen at the hands of this rogue agency, where people, again, are executing people on the streets, executing innocent Americans who are exercising their First Amendment right and, frankly, their Second Amendment right, because Alex Preddy, for example, had a legal carry, concealed carry permit and didn't even. Wasn't even holding his gun, it was holstered. So in light of that, in light of the fact that we're seeing this death at the hands of these ICE agents, for him to come out and say, we want that in our state of Georgia. Can I have your reaction to that?
- [63:22]
D
Well, I think it says everything you need to know about the congressman's judgment that he would look at what's unfolded in Minneapolis and want that to come to his state.
- [63:32]
A
In terms of hearing from some of these people, whether it's Pam Bondi, whether it's Kristi Noem, do you have any update in terms of when they're gonna be coming in front of the Senate or whether we're gonna actually be able to get straight answers from these people as opposed to, you know, obfuscation efforts, which, frankly, this DOJ seems to be. That seems to be the one area where they're especially competent, is making sure that they don't give answers, whether it's, you know, responding to the atrocities committed at the hands of their law enforcement agencies or ICE or You know, on and on.
- [64:05]
D
My understanding is that Secretary Noem is scheduled to appear sometime relatively soon in front of the Judiciary Committee. She should be gone. She never should have been confirmed to that role. She was obviously unqualified when I met with her while she was seeking confirmation. She needs to be fired. Two Republican senators called for her today to resign. So if she survives in the role that long, she's going to come and testify. But no, I do not expect candor from these folks. They have been cast by this president precisely for their performance on camera, their ability to evade and lie and dissemble under questioning. When you watch them appear before the Congress, they show complete contempt for Congress. They just counter attack, dodge the question. And the weak and irrelevant Republican committee chairs are completely unwilling to use any power to hold them to account, to answer questions before the people's elected representatives.
- [65:08]
A
Were you surprised to see Thom Tillis and Lisa Murkowski call for Kristi Noemi's resignation? And do you presume that there are gonna be any more Republicans who follow in their footsteps?
- [65:20]
D
Look, I think that Senator Tillis and Senator Murkowski have both shown some independence over the last few months. But look, I'll tell you, Brian, we are so far past so many red lines that should have triggered this Republican Party and Republicans in Congress to turn against this president. I mean, we've been talking about his election conspiracy theories, right? The fact that the majority of Republicans in Congress are still behind the guy who ginned up the mob that sacked the Capitol and then pardoned everybody who engaged in that violence, and still they bend the knee and what do they for it? I mean, look at Bill Cassidy in Louisiana, right? This is a guy who had the clarity at the time. We were trying President Trump over the events before and leading up to January 6th. He voted to convict Donald Trump. And then when Donald Trump was reelected, Bill Cassidy, a medical doctor, the head of the health committee to try to avoid Trump's ire, helped, despite his reservations, despite knowing RFK was unqualified, put RFK in charge of public health for the American people. And what did Senator Cassidy get for it? Nothing. Donald Trump just endorsed his opponent is a primary. So, you know, they all bend the knee, but they're all just tools for this guy's plots and games. He has no loyalty to them and they're not going to turn on him. The way that we are going to constrain this president is by winning these elections. We need to focus on winning these elections. We need to recognize that victory in the midterm elections is the only real solution here. And in Georgia, I am the only Democratic senator running for reelection in a state the president won. You see what they're doing in Georgia this week, right? They are absolutely determined to take back this Senate seat by hook or by crook. And I need folks to help me to defend voting rights and to get out the vote like never before. And you can help me@electjohn.com that's electjon.com perfectly put.
- [67:36]
A
I'm going to put that link to your website right here on the screen and also in the post description. And I would just let everybody know that, you know, there are going to be a lot of competitive races. Georgia is chief among them. And there is no path to victory in the Senate without Georgia. So that's going to be ground zero in terms of this fight that's coming up. And every dollar spent now, especially early, is gonna help make sure that Senator Ossoff can define himself before Republicans are able to define him for them. So I'm gonna put that link again right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video.
- [68:07]
B
Thank you.
- [68:07]
D
And you know, if you're looking at everything happening in our country and your head is spinning and you're overwhelmed and you're having trouble getting oriented and figuring out what to do, this is something you can do right now that actually makes a difference. Send $5 or $10 to support my campaign in Georgia. This will be the number one United States Senate race in the country.
- [68:29]
A
We'll leave it there. Senator Ossoff, thanks so much for taking the time.
- [68:32]
D
Thank you, Brian. Take care.
- [68:34]
A
Thanks again to Jim Acosta, Jim Himes, Tommy Vitor and Jon Ossoff. That's it for this episode. Talk to you Wednesday. You've been listening to no Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graber, music by Wellesley, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me Rienteller Cohen on all of my other channels or you can go to briantylercohen.com to learn more.