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- [00:01]
A
A new Trump cover up surges into the national spotlight. And I have three interviews. Elizabeth Warren talks about the criminal prosecution of the Fed chair Jerome Powell. Hakeem Jeffries talks about getting ACA subsidies passed out of the House despite Mike Johnson trying to block it. And Minnesota's Lieutenant Governor Peggy Flanagan discusses the fallout for Republicans amid the ICE shooting. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen and you're listening to no Lie. There is a major cover up getting exposed right now, and this is in addition to the one regarding the Epstein files. So it turns out in the aftermath of the ICE shooting in Minneapolis that senior officials within the DOJ had ordered prosecutors to investigate. Not the agent John Ross who shot Renee Goode in the face as she tried to drive away, but Renee Goode's widow. Because as we all know, part of Keeping up the Con is to double down on this Trumpian talking point that Renee Goode was a domestic terrorist as a way to retroactively justify her killing at the hands of a trigger happy ICE agent. Well, that edict by the DOJ's senior leadership didn't go quite as planned since there was a mass resignation by six prosecutors. One of those prosecutors, Joseph Thompson, was actually second in command at the U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota. And importantly, he was overseeing the massive fraud investigation that's consumed so much media attention over the last couple of weeks, where some Somalis had defrauded safety net programs. And the fruits of those investigations have been a boon for Republicans. They've used them as a justification for ICE to go ramp up the their presence in Minnesota in the first place. And yet now the DOJ has lost him as a prosecutor, lost a key fraud prosecutor in their ranks, because even as someone who did work that they benefit from legally and politically, he wasn't willing to be a complete hack for the bigwigs of the DOJ. According to the New York Times, Mr. Thompson strenuously objected to the decision not to investigate the shootings as a civil rights matter and was outraged by the demand to launch a criminal investigation into Becca Good. According to people familiar with the developments, Mr. Thompson had originally set out to investigate the shootings in partnership with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, the state agency that reviews police shootings. Senior Justice Department officials overruled the decision to cooperate with the state agency. And by the way, that checks out in my interview just a few days back with the mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Fry, that was on this podcast in the previous episode. He told me that the FBI was icing out the bca, the Bureau of criminal apprehension by preventing them access to all the evidence. No doubt because the BCA would want to investigate this in a legitimate fashion, while the FBI, as an appendage of Trump and Bondi and Harmeet Dhillon, clearly wants to give blind cover to the murderous ICE agent and vilify the victim. And I've spoken quite a bit about the fact that I have mixed feelings when prosecutors resign in protest, which has been a recurring theme, basically, for the last year. Because on one hand, like, I get it, it draws attention to the injustice of the doj. It shows that good people aren't willing to do bad things. All of that I understand. But on the other hand, that attention usually just lasts a day. And then those vacancies at the DOJ are filled by bad people who are perfectly content to do Trump's bidding. And even ineffective prosecutors like Lindsey Halligan, for example. While embarrassing in the courtroom, they can still do a lot of damage just by virtue of the fact that they wield the power of the doj. But I think this instance is different, because now you've got six prosecutors who want to investigate righteously what happened in Minneapolis. And guess what? There is a state agency that also wants to investigate what happened in Minneapolis. So I hope these prosecutors go work for either the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension or the Minneapolis PD or some other agency that isn't led by Harmeet Dhillon or some other hack clown whose sole priority is dancing like a court jester for the God King. These people have the experience to do the right thing and the desire to do the right thing. And I really hope that doesn't get wasted, especially considering, yes, the feds are trying to have sole jurisdiction over this case by refusing to share evidence with the state. But remember, the state can still prosecute John Ross. That's the ICE agent. Even if they have incomplete evidence. The evidentiary standard to get a grand jury indictment is probable cause. That's it. I mean, hell, you've got probable cause just with the public video footage alone. So a state prosecution can still happen. It should still happen, even despite efforts by the DOJ to prevent it. And now there are six newly unburdened prosecutors who can help make sure that the prosecution is successful. Oh, and it goes without saying, but presidential pardons don't work for state crimes. Something to think about. Next up are my interviews with Elizabeth Warren, Hakeem Jeffries, and Peggy Flanagan. No lie is brought to you by Factor. A recurring theme in my life is that I desperately want to eat better, but there are literally not enough hours in the day. Factor doesn't ask you to meal prep or follow recipes. It just removes the entire problem. Two minutes real food done. So there was a time in my life where I actually cooked for myself. That time is long gone. I don't think I've touched the saucepan in 10 years. Not because I don't want to, but I simply don't have the time. The reality is that you're not failing at eating healthy. You're failing at having three extra hours every night. Factors already made by chefs, designed by dietitians and delivered right to your door. You heat it for two minutes and eat. So let's talk about what's inside. Lean proteins, colorful vegetables, whole food ingredients, healthy fats. The stuff that you would make if you had the time. No refined sugars, no artificial sweeteners, no refined seed oils. I just ate the filet mignon and shrimp with potatoes. Legit restaurant quality. I don't know what else to say other than it was so good and so clean. Factor fits your life, not somebody else's plan. There are a hundred rotating meals every week. High protein calorie, smart Mediterranean GLP1 support, ready to eat salads, A new muscle pro collection for strength and recovery. You pick what fits your goals. Healthier eating, calorie management, more protein. Whatever you're actually trying to do. And what you get is always fresh, never frozen. Ready in two minutes. No prep, no cleanup, no mental load. This isn't motivation to eat better. This is the elimination of the reason that you don't. I'm super careful about what goes in my body. I could not recommend factor highly enough. I've eaten it every day this week. You absolutely should too. Head to FactorMeals.com BTC50OFF and use code BTC50OFF to get 50% off your first Factor box. Plus free breakfast for a year offer only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto renewing subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy with Factor. I'm joined now by Senator Elizabeth Warren. Thanks for joining me.
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B
Thank you for having me.
- [06:44]
A
So we have some big news today as it relates to the Fed monetary policy. Donald Trump in an effort to punish Jerome Powell for failing to quickly enough reduce the interest rates, he's now opened up a criminal investigation of him. Of course, Donald Trump's DOJ was perfectly content to oblige. That's why someone like Jeanine Pirro is in the DOJ is a U.S. attorney. So first and foremost, can I have your reaction to this news that Trump has yet again Weaponized the government against a political opponent. Opponent.
- [07:13]
B
So look, we've been watching Trump use the government like it's his own personal security enforcement, forced it to be able to follow through on every grievance that Trump has got. But this one is truly shocking. Beyond shocking. There's never been anything like it before. A president trying to do this to a Federal Reserve chair. And just back up for one sec. Remember, we have an independent Fed and have had for decades, Democratic administrations, Republican administrations. Why? Because we want confidence as much as possible that the Fed is making decisions about monetary policy. Raising interest rates, lowering interest rates, controlling inflation, responding to unemployment based on the economic numbers and not on the fact of how many days out are we from the next election. There's a real concern that if the President of the United States gets his hands on the dial on interest rates, what will happen is every president will be tempted to juice the economy by lowering those interest rates just before an election. And you've got this kind of rush of money into the economy, like a sugar high, something that may feel good in the short term, but even the medium term, much less the long term, really bad for the economy, potentially driving up both unemployment and inflation simultaneously. So we've done this for years. Donald Trump basically from the day got into office, has chafed under this and wanted to control the Fed. And he has tried. He's threatened to fire Jerome Powell. He's tried to fire another Federal Reserve governor, Lisa Cook. He has said publicly that he will not appoint anyone to run the Fed who will not do exactly what Donald Trump wants, who does not agree with Donald Trump 100% of the time. In other words, he wants a sock puppet over at the Fed. And so when Jerome Powell very quietly, very soberly won't roll over and play dead, Donald Trump now gets his Justice Department to attack him with some phonied up, not of a criminal indictment over trying to rehab an old historic Fed building. This really is, it's just a power play on Donald Trump's part. And Jerome Powell, to his credit, is saying, you're not going to push me around.
- [10:00]
A
Also, is there not some irony in the fact that Donald Trump thinks that what's disqualifying here is, is some issue related to a federal building. Like while the guy has knocked down the entire east wing of the White House with zero approval, zero authority to.
- [10:17]
B
Be able to do so, isn't that a stunner? I mean, this guy, talk about someone who has no self reflection and is willing to spew it all out. But sure doesn't think about, wait a minute, what has he just been doing? He's the guy who's knocked down the east wing of the White House and keeps changing what he's going to build with no oversight. This is Donald Trump playing King, both in trying to control the Fed and in deciding what the White House, one of our major national treasures, is going to look like. Really stunning.
- [10:53]
A
Yeah, the projection here really is incredible. I mean, like, I wouldn't be surprised if next week we see an investigation opened into Jerome Powell for campaign finance violations related to an affair he had with. With hush money payouts to porn stars and Playboy bunnies. You know, your Republican colleagues in the Senate, Thom Tillis and Lisa Murkowski, both announced that they would be blocking the confirmations of any nominee to the Fed, including the upcoming Fed Chair nomination, while Donald Trump is engaged in this whole, you know, effort to basically eliminate the independence of the Fed. Do you presume that there will be any more Republicans who are gonna sign onto this effort? Because, you know, with only two Republicans right now, I mean, Lisa Murkowski is one of, you know, two or three very moderate members of the Republican conference. Thom Tillis, of course, is retiring, which is too often when these Republicans finally discover their spines. But with only two in a conference of 53, it leaves them twisting in the wind a little bit. Do you think that they're gonna get some backup?
- [11:53]
B
You know, I genuinely don't know. But here's the thing. Placing a bet on Senate Republicans to show some spine and stand up to Donald Trump would have been a losing proposition. About 99 out of 100 times over this past year, Republicans have just caved in repeatedly. Now, why might they jump up this time? Because the independence of the Fed is something that is so essential to how our economy works and to America's position around the world. You might get some more Republicans willing to stand up to Trump on this, but, boy, I wouldn't bet the ranch on it.
- [12:39]
A
Well, you know, the interesting part of that is these people are all participants in the economy. These people all have stock portfolios and brokerage accounts and whatever it may be. And so they also have a vested interest in making sure that the economy doesn't run too hot just because Donald Trump wants to juice it five minutes but before an election. And so this is the perfect instance of, like, you don't want to help the guy crash the plane that you are also a passenger on.
- [13:05]
B
Yeah, you know, that's a good way to put it. But notice, overall, this is just part of Trump's. He's going to take all power to himself and then he's going to decide how to use it. You know, this morning I was just giving a speech calling out how Donald Trump spent an entire year before the 2024 election basically standing up and saying every single day that he, Donald Trump, would lower costs for American families on day one. Remember how many times he said that?
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A
Yeah.
- [13:38]
B
And yet he's been president for a year. Cost of groceries are up, cost of utilities are up, cost of housing is up, cost of health care is up. And all of those are up, not just by some natural physical law. They are up because of policies that Donald Trump and the Republicans have put in place. So Donald Trump wants to pull this power in. But notice where does he want to use it? Well, he wants to use it to get Donald Trump reelected. He wants to use it to flatter himself with a new golden crusted ballroom. And he wants to use it to help out his billionaire buddies like the oil industry execs. But he's not using it to help the American people.
- [14:27]
A
No lies brought to you by BetterHelp. The new year doesn't require a new you, maybe just a less burdened you. Therapy can help more easily identify what weighs you down and holds you back by offering an unbiased perspective to better understand your relationships, motivations and emotions. A big lesson that I've been dealing with this year is pressure. Pressure that comes with work and relationships and even my politics. And being able to work through some of that with another human being has been immensely helpful, which is why I'm such an advocate for BetterHelp. BetterHelp has quality therapists. They work according to a strict code of conduct and are fully licensed in the US and there's the therapist match commitment. BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences and their more than 12 years of experience. An industry leading match fulfillment rate means they typically get it right the first time. And if you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time from their tailored recommendations. And with over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is one of the world's largest online therapy platforms, having served over 5 million people globally. And it works with an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched online with a qualified therapist. Sign up and get 10% off@betterhelp.com Nolie that's betterhelp.com Nolie I'm joined now by Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Thanks so much for joining me.
- [15:49]
C
Great to be with you and happy birthday.
- [15:51]
A
Thanks. I appreciate it. Leader Jeffries, you were able to score a big win in the House in terms of getting the ACA extension passed. This was over the protests of Mike Johnson and of course, Donald Trump. And so now in terms of this thing passing through the Senate, I know that this isn't your jurisdiction, but, but I'm assuming that your focus is now on John Thune. Do you have any sense of the likelihood of its passage now that it goes to the Senate?
- [16:20]
C
Well, from the very beginning of this effort, we made clear that we were in this fight until we won this fight on behalf of the American people. During the 43 day government shutdown, we repeatedly made clear that we would work with the other side of the aisle to try to find bipartisan common ground to reopen the government in that context, to enact the spending bill that actually made life better for the American people, but that we were not going to gut the health care of the American people. And that we needed to address the Republican health care crisis, beginning by extending the Affordable Care act tax credits for three years. We've now done that successfully against all odds in the House of Representatives, but our work, of course, continues in the Senate. Now, in the Senate, this bill previously came up for a vote in December. All 47 Senate Democrats voted for it, joined by four Senate Republicans. So we know, Brian, the bill already has a majority of senators on that side of the Capitol. The only obstacle is John Thune. And we're going to keep the pressure on him to do his job.
- [17:27]
A
Even in the event that this thing does manage to pass the Senate, it would then have to contend with Donald Trump's signature or a veto, I would presume, at least for right now. And this is, you know, notwithstanding the pressure that he's gonna have to contend with, which will, I imagine, be quite great. But if there's a veto by Donald Trump, do you think that you'll have enough Republicans in the House to over to overcome his veto?
- [17:55]
C
Well, 17 Republicans joined us the first time around. It's challenging when it comes to getting additional support given the cult like behavior of Mike Johnson and the overwhelming majority of Republicans in the House. I think from our standpoint, if we get this successfully through the Senate and we have a real shot to do it partnering with Leader Schumer and Senate Democrats, I think the pressure would be Enormous on Donald Trump. In fact, I believe he was just asked about this and did not outright promise a veto.
- [18:29]
A
Yeah.
- [18:29]
C
Which means he knows that Republicans are in a very vulnerable position because they've been ripping health care away from the American people from the very beginning. And Democrats continue to press them on it. We know the American people are with us both as it relates to the Affordable Care act and on the broader struggle, including in connection with their vicious cuts against Medicaid, the largest cuts in American history. And they're going to have to do something before they face the voters in November. And our view is start by extending the Affordable Care act tax credits for tens of millions of Americans.
- [19:08]
A
And also, we've seen that this administration is susceptible to pressure and the Republican Party more broadly is susceptible. Repression. The Epstein files passed even despite the fact that Trump wants nothing more than to suppress them and is, in fact, working to suppress them. Even though. Even despite the fact that he signed that bill into law. And also, we have recent precedent that shows what happens when a Republican Party messes with health care in an election year. 2018 was the biggest. The Democrats won the House by the biggest margin in modern American history on the back of Republicans trying to repeal and replace the Affordable Care Act. So, you know, if passed as prologue, Republicans understand what's coming down the pipe for them if they don't move as far as these ACA subsidies are concerned. But I want to switch over to a different topic here. This is obviously something that's consumed the entire country for the last week or so, and that is the issue of, you know, the lawlessness of ice. And so from your vantage, is there anything that Congress or that Congressional Democrats might be able to do to limit funding for ice, so to kind of cut them off, you know, where it matters most, which is, you know, the funding source.
- [20:18]
C
Yeah. In the context of the upcoming Homeland Security bill, House appropriators on the Democratic side are pushing aggressive accountability measures to try to rein ICE in because they are completely and totally out of control. Yeah. To date, Republicans have been resistant to imposing common sense measures that would get ICE under control so that they are compelled to behave like every other law enforcement agency within the federal government. And we're going to continue to press that case. Now, part of the challenge that the Congress overall is going to have to deal with in this instance is that much of the funding for ICE was appropriated outside of the traditional process and came in the form of billions of dollars in the one big, ugly bill that, of course, Republicans jammed down the throats of the American people and that Donald Trump signed into law. Every single House Democrat and every single Senate Democrat opposed that bill for a variety of different reasons, including the largest cut to Medicaid in American history, the massive cut to snap the funding of the out of control extreme ICE behavior that we're now seeing, and of course, the fact that that one big, ugly bill included massive tax breaks for their billionaire donors. So there are two tracks here. There's the funding that should be repurposed, connected to the one big ugly bill to actually make life better for the American people in an environment where the cost of living is too high, housing costs too high, grocery costs too high, utility bills too high, childcare costs too high, and health care costs too high. And then there's the separate track that we're working on, which relates to the appropriations process, where Democrats have put forward strong language in the context of what would become law, ironclad, undefeatable in a court of law, and Republicans to date continue to act like a wholly owned subsidiary of the Trump cartel. But we'll keep pressing our case.
- [22:28]
A
Okay, two questions there. What would some laws be that would curb the behavior of ice? Like what? What are some provisions within that law that you're trying to get passed? And the second is, when does the one big, beautiful bill funding run out and when does new. When is new funding up where you would then be able to kind of chip away at just the. The massive influx of funds that have allowed ICE to balloon into one of the, you know, what would be the biggest standing armies in the world if it was, you know, just by a funding. Just by funding perspective.
- [22:59]
C
Yeah, from a funding standpoint, in terms of the one big ugly bill, that funding is available at least for the balance of the fiscal year. And Republicans may try to re up it in the context of another reconciliation bill that they may attempt to jam down the throats of the America people that remains to be seen, will fight them every step of the way.
- [23:24]
A
Was that able to be passed and that was able to be passed via reconciliation. So presumably. But the same process that allowed them to pass that with a simple majority, the first go around would stay in place for the second time, Right?
- [23:35]
C
Yeah, they were able to pass that via reconciliation. Of course, they believe that they were riding higher at that time than they are right now. You're seeing Republicans recognize that they've been on the losing side of both legislative battles now, repeatedly on Epstein on repealing the Trump executive order as it relates to ripping collective bargaining rights away from a million federal employees. We've defeated Trump in the House on that and most recently in extending the Affordable Care act tax credits. One of the reasons why you're starting to see Republicans soften their cult like allegiance to Donald Trump is because they know he's deeply unpopular and their policies have failed. And Democrats are winning elections all across the country because we're on the right side of the American people on the affordability issue, and we're pushing back strongly against their extremism. So I think it's going to be challenging for them to get another reconciliation bill done as long as Democrats remain strongly in opposition, which we will do.
- [24:39]
A
And then the second part of that question is what provisions are contained in that would limit what ICE is able to do? What are you guys pushing for?
- [24:46]
C
Yeah. So one example amongst several that I think will continue to be put on the table. But this notion that was articulated by J.D. vance, who's a complete and total disgrace, by the way, this guy says that this agent who killed without justification, it was depraved indifference to human life. Renee Nicole Goode should be alive today with her children. But J.D. vance claims that ice has absolute immunity. We don't believe they have absolute immunity. In fact, every other law enforcement official has what's called qualified immunity at best. Yeah, but absolute immunity is completely and totally out of control. Now, to the extent that there's ambiguity as it relates to ICE agents actually being held accountable, that needs to be addressed. Because as long as these agents think that the president, the vice President, Kristi Noem, who's terrible, and you know, the notion that she would irresponsibly call Ms. Good a domestic terrorist, insane. I mean, she's a stone cold liar. Kristi Noemi, deeply unqualified. She needs to be thrown out of office. The thing is, as long as these ICE agents believe that they will not be held accountable for their behavior, either by this administration or by subsequent administrations because they've been given so called absolute immunity, then you're going to see the behavior continue. But if they know that they will be held accountable by the Congress or by a court of law, either by this administration or by subsequent administrations, because the statute of limitations does not run out before this administration is run out of town, then I think there's real opportunity to see a change in behavior.
- [26:48]
A
Want to switch gears here a little bit to what's happening today, and that is that Donald Trump has announced that the Department of Justice is opening up a criminal investigation into Jerome Powell. That's actually gotten some pushback from even Republicans. Thom Tillis and Lisa Murkowski both announced that they would block any nominees to the Fed. While this is going on, can you talk about what you're able to do from the House side in terms of preventing what seems to be just this unbridled effort to politicize the Justice Department and wield it against any of his political opponents, from Letitia James to Adam Schiff to James Comey, now to his own appointed Fed chair, who should be overseeing an independent, completely independent entity in the Fed.
- [27:38]
C
You make a very important observation, Bryant, which is Donald Trump appointed Jerome Powell, but because Chairman Powell is behaving in a manner consistent with the independent nature of, of the Federal Reserve, charged with the responsibility of overseeing the economy to ensure it works as best as possible for the American people. Given Chairman Powell's independence, Donald Trump, looking for a scapegoat because his policies have been a total failure as it relates to the economy, is now weaponizing the Department of Justice. Again, all of these extremists, these sycophants, you know, these political hacks who are operating right now as if they're never going to be held accountable within the Department of Justice. You're going to be held accountable by the Congress as soon as House Democrats take back the majority and eventually by the American people in a variety of different ways when this administration changes. And so I think the power of confirmation, of course, rests with the Senate, not with the House. We have the ability to deal with the funding appropriations bills. And I'm sure that's something that our appropriators will take a close look at as we reconvene this week to deal with this latest development. But I'm going to strongly support the efforts by both Senate Democrats and Senate Republicans to hold the administration accountable. There should be no movement on any future appointments related to the Federal Reserve Board until this action is dismissed or this investigation goes away. And by the way, we need to take a hard look at the weaponization of the Department of Justice. That effort, of course, is being led by Jamie Raskin on our end, who's doing a tremendous job along with Judiciary Committee Democrats to deal with the extremism of Pam Bondi and the political hacks who are part of the Department of Injustice.
- [29:44]
A
Last question here. I want to talk about redistricting a little bit. This is an issue that I followed especially closely for months and months and months. And to your credit, I know that you have been working extremely closely on this issue across the country, including in Virginia. And so in light of the fact that we just Got the announcement from Ron DeSantis that Florida would be redrawing its maps. We're likely to see three new Republicans seats added there. And of course, that's in addition to the new seat that was added in North Carolina. In Missouri, I think there were two added in Ohio. And of course, there were some Democratic states that were able to neutralize that effort. We've got five in California to neutralize the five in Texas. There was a court ruling that offered up one more seat in Utah to reverse that gerrymander there. But Republicans are still going to net seats in this whole process. And so can you give a little update in terms of where we stand if we're doing enough and what states you would like to see push forward some more aggressive action given the fact that we have limited resources at our disposal?
- [30:46]
C
Yeah, it's a great question. And in Missouri, we of course are taking that gerrymandered congressional map to the voters via referendum. And we've collected three times the number of signatures necessary to force a referendum. Soon as the referendum is certified, the map is frozen in place as it relates to the one that currently exists. Okay, so we can wipe away that gerrymander, and that's an important step. In North Carolina, they did try to take away a seat from Congressman Don Davis. He's running full steam ahead. I believe he will win re election. But of course, we've commenced litigation in North Carolina to challenge what we believe is a racial gerrymander in that state. But we do need to act affirmatively. And what's on the table in front of us right now, the states of Virginia and the state of Maryland, along with pending litigation, that we have a court case that's ongoing. Right now the trial is taking place as we speak in New York where some plaintiffs are challenging one of the districts that was created by the special master that we believe is inconsistent with the Constitution and should be remedied by the legislature. That's the seat that's currently held by Nicole Malliotakis, a Republican in a Staten island based district. And then in Wisconsin, we've got litigation pending because Wisconsin, as you know, Brian, it's a 5050 state, but the congressional delegation is six Republicans, two Democrats. It's ridiculous. It should at least be four. Four. And the current map clearly, in our view, violates the Constitution. And we're hopeful that a newly enlightened Wisconsin state Supreme Court. We of course won a very important Wisconsin state Supreme Court race last April. People from all across the country got involved in that effort. We're hopeful that a newly enlightened Wisconsin State Supreme Court will actually make the decision that the current map in Wisconsin is inconsistent with the Constitution. Just create a fair map. And a fair map would give Republicans and Democrats an opportunity to win at least four seats in that state. So we're all hands on deck in terms of what currently is taking place. The only thing they have left is Florida. They are going to try to go in. We're going to fight that with everything that we have. We believe anything that DeSantis tries to do is inconsistent with with the Florida Constitution and the fair map amendment that passed decisively by voters in 2011. But, you know, these people are out of control. So we're not going to rely upon the Florida State Supreme Court to do the right thing. We've got to keep moving forward in these other states, the four that I mentioned in particular, along with going into Missouri and winning the referendum.
- [33:39]
A
Right. I mean, this is a Florida State Supreme Court that already allowed, I believe, a 20 Republican to 8 Democrat map to pass in basically a 55, 45 state. So these people, you know, even if there's a deeper gerrymander, a further gerrymander, we can't rely on the state Supreme Court in Florida to do the right thing and actually uphold a law. Quick question on this, though. In Virginia, there has been talk about a 101 map. Do you think that there would still be an appetite for that map?
- [34:07]
C
Yeah. So in terms of the maps, the legislature is taking a look at what the opportunities are. They have to, of course, draw the map in a manner consistent with the state constitution as it currently exists or consistent with the referendum that will be taken to the voters if the legislature acts, or when the legislature acts, which I believe they will over the next few weeks. Now, that said, I think there's opportunity, given the competitive nature of the state of Virginia, the Commonwealth of Virginia, to create a significant number of competitive opportunities in any given year or cycle. Democrats may be able to win, Republicans may be able to win. We do know that in the 2026 cycle, with Democrats having Republicans on the run, there is real opportunity to potentially pick up three or four additional seats in Virginia. All right.
- [35:01]
A
Well, I do hope they take an aggressive posture here because the whole point of this effort is to actually fight fire with fire and show that there can be a deterrent effect from Democrats to prevent Republicans from engaging in this whole process. But obviously that's something that you know better than anybody as again, you've been especially an important part of this whole of this whole process across the country. So with that said, leader Jeffrey, thanks so much for taking the time today. I appreciate it.
- [35:26]
C
Thanks so much again. Appreciate you.
- [35:30]
A
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- [37:07]
D
Thanks so much for having me.
- [37:08]
A
So first and foremost, given what's taken place in your state in Minneapolis just a few days ago, there has been news surrounding kind of the conflict taking place between the feds and state investigators where it doesn't look like the Trump administration and the DOJ are interested in allowing state investigators to be a part of this process, which is especially concerning given the fact that we've already basically seen the ice agent that was involved in this shooting get pre cleared by Trump, by Vance, by Kristi Noem, you name it. And so what can you tell us with regard to any news about state investigators being able to conduct their own investigation, what. What most of us would believe would be an actual, fair and impartial investigation?
- [37:53]
D
Totally. Well, first of all, I think it's important, you know, I know that your viewers have, you know, can see, right, what happened in the video of the. The killing of Renee Goode from multiple angles. And so I think, you know, hearing the spin from Donald Trump and Christy Noem and J.D. vance, who are trying to just somehow disparage the memory of Renee Goode and prejudge this entire situation, is outrageous. You know, initially, the FBI said that they were going to work with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, and, you know, that's fairly standard procedure when there are incidents like the one that occurred shortly thereafter. They said, no, they were going to cut out the Minnesota bca. And now we are in a position where Minnesota state officials are not a part of this investigation at all. And it is completely outrageous. Minnesota state officials need to be engaged in, you know, this investigation. It needs to be full, fair, transparent. It is what the family of Renee Goode deserves. I think it's what Minnesotans deserve, and it's what, you know, the entire country deserves, frankly. Minnesota State Attorney General and Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty are investigating. They have asked Minnesotans if they have any evidence or eyewitness accounts, videos that they share that information via a portal, because right now, the FBI is not working with the Minnesota BCA or state officials or local officials at all. And so they're prohibited from seeing any of that evidence. And so my question really is, what do they have to hide? And when we have folks like J.D. vance, who from this podium say that ICE agents have absolute immunity, quote, absolute immunity, unquote, that's terrifying. It's false, and it is completely outrageous, and we need to demand more. And if folks are interested in how they can support Minnesota, they can reach out to their member of Congress and demand that the FBI work with state officials, with the Minnesota State Attorney General's Office, with the Minnesota bca, and. And with the Hennepin county attorney?
- [40:32]
A
Is it the intention of your administration and all of the leadership in Minnesota right now not to basically let up? Is it the understanding of this administration what the DOJ is seeking to do and kind of what they're already signaling by virtue of basically announcing before the investigation has concluded or even really started, that the ICE agent was, you know, just doing his job, exemplary federal official, meanwhile calling Renee Good a domestic terrorist.
- [41:05]
D
I mean, I think this is part of a pattern. Right. Let's be, let's be clear that this is not the first incident like this one that has occurred with ICE agents. And this pattern of simply saying, you know, nothing to see here, move along. Right, is how DHS and DOJ have been approaching, you know, fatal interactions with.
- [41:30]
A
We found out there there were 16 ICE related shootings as of January 9th.
- [41:35]
D
Right. And just the day after, right. Renee Goode was killed. We hear about two individuals being shot in Portland. Yeah. So the message is pretty clear that's being sent that people are in danger. Right. And are unsafe when ICE agents are in our community. And so like, let's also be clear about, you know, what has occurred. It is, you know, that as we have these ICE agents who are descending on Minnesota, it makes us all less safe. Right. Shortly after Renee Goode was killed, they moved to Roosevelt High School where they use chemical agents in the presence of students. They, you know, tackled staff members who are beloved by the children who attend this school and had general disregard for the safety of the young people who are on school grounds. So much so that Minneapolis Public Schools close schools Thursday and Friday and now have offered a distance learning option for students at least for the next month. This is to keep children safe from these federal agents. And so it is. It has just been escalating. This has nothing to do about safety. This is terror and chaos and, you know, we are seeing. I'll just share this quick story if I may. I am being inundated with calls all day long about people just expressing absolute horrific stories. Citizens being detained by ice, trying to navigate and figure out how to get people out. But just yesterday, my auntie was forced off the road by ICE agents. They surrounded her vehicle. And she is a 78 year old white little grandma, right. Who was, you know, just forced off the road with, you know, she believes because she has a bumper sticker on her car that says Black Lives Matter. But you know, she's pulled over, they, you know, surround her car and she's like, hey guys, how's it going?
- [43:40]
C
Right?
- [43:40]
D
This is ridiculous. Like, this has nothing to do with safety and has everything to do with chaos, terror and intimidation of the entire community. And I, I'm so glad that I have the opportunity to talk to you, Brian, because I don't know that people outside of Minnesota understand what truly is happening here on the ground. It's horrific. And it isn't just, it isn't just focused on the Twin Cities metro area, right. Driving north, I'm in northern Minnesota Right now, there were ICE agents who had pulled off on the side of the road on 94. As I was doing an event in the city of Alexandria, a bunch of phones went off, and there are several legal observers in the room who are then called to go to a restaurant and to a construction site simultaneously. And so this is something that isn't just contained to the Twin Cities metro area, but there are, you know, 2,000 ICE agents in Minnesota, and reportedly Kristi Noem is sending a thousand more. This is untenable for people.
- [44:43]
A
And look, I live in Los Angeles. We were the first major city to contend with these ICE agents descending onto the city. And obviously, Los Angeles has a vibrant immigrant community. And so I think as they go city by city, Chicago, Portland, Minneapolis, and across your state, I think people are recognizing it more and more. And I also believe that that that spans across the political spectrum in a way that we haven't seen before. One of the clips that was most striking to me from the day that Renee Good was killed was a young man, maybe in his 20s, who said, I'm pretty right wing, but this isn't it. Like, this isn't how you do it. And I'm curious, as you've been traveling around the state because you're running for U.S. senate and you've had the opportunity to speak with so many people, what have you heard from folks, not just necessarily people who are in the Democratic coalition, but outside the Democratic coalition, what have you heard from folks who are in independents or even Trump voters, even Republican voters, about how ICE is comporting themselves right now?
- [45:42]
D
I mean, I have some family members, right, who are Republicans, who are like, listen, this is crossing a line. Yeah, right. And as we are hearing from folks, there's a gentleman today who came to our event in Thief River Falls who's like, I've never been to anything political before in my life, but I'm really concerned by what it is that I see happening in the state. I think people horrified and, you know, this. Your political affiliation should not matter in this moment. You know, what happened to Renee Good should never, ever happen. We should never be able to have federal agents be able to take someone's life, Right. And, you know, disagreeing or having people who are legal observers, right? We are seeing legal observers who are being detained by ice, Right? We are seeing citizens. I'm hearing stories daily from people, or that, you know, friend's brother was just detained all day today as a United States citizen. And they're like, well, we still have to investigate if you're actually a citizen and he had his ID on him. So, like, this is nothing but fear and intimidation. And all people should be speaking up about it, regardless of political affiliation, because this is impacting our overall quality of life. And no one, especially people who believe in America. Right. People who believe in the Constitution, should be okay with these untrained, masked agents just creating chaos, terror and intimidation in our communities, making us all less safe.
- [47:27]
A
So I'd mentioned before that you're running for U.S. senate in Minnesota right now you're engaged in a primary against Angie Craig. What is the difference, especially on this issue as it relates to ice, between you and her?
- [47:40]
D
Well, I'd say a couple of things. Donald Trump was very clear about where he stood on the issue of immigration and where he stood on the issue of mass deportations. Right. This didn't sneak up on us. This was in the fine print, Right. There were rally signs at his events that said mass deportations now. And so I think anybody who said that they didn't know that this was how he was going to use ICE is fooling themselves. And so the very first vote that Donald Trump got passed under his second administration was the Lake and Riley act, which works to strip due process from immigrants. Angie Craig was the only Minnesota Democrat to vote in favor of the Lake and Riley Act. Tina Smith and Amy Klobuchar, you know, led the way in voting no. But additionally. Right. You know, there was a resolution that was presented in June when ICE was in the community, as you know, of Los Angeles. Right. Terrorizing people there. And my opponent, Angie Craig, voted for that resolution praising ice. And so now that we see, right. The chaos in our streets, the terror that Minnesotans are experiencing, suddenly she's talking about immigration and she's talking about ice. But I think it's really important to be clear that the Lake and Riley act, combined with this resolution praising ice, are the very things that gave permission for this terror and chaos that's happening in our streets. So I appreciate she is coming around and she's talking about this issue now. I guess welcome to the fight. But I have been in this fight. I have been standing in the breach with my immigrant neighbors and with community members, because, frankly, that's just what leaders do. And, you know, I'm. I am happy that she suddenly has had a change of heart. But we deserve leaders who are going to do the right thing and who are going to stand up for people all the time, not just when it's politically expedient for them.
- [50:04]
A
On a broader view of what's happening in this campaign, ICE aside, what is your principal focus as you've been going around talking to Minnesotans?
- [50:14]
D
Sure. I mean, it's the ability for people to afford the lives that they want to live. This is consistent wherever I go. And you know, it's things like Medicare for all. I'm just hearing about people constantly, right. Who have $15,000 deductibles, folks who are paying, you know, 600 bucks for a five minute medication check. And so the high cost of healthcare continues to be an issue where people who got kicked off their insurance when, you know, their spouse had a terrible illness, just story after story after story.
- [50:53]
A
Or by design, by the way, when the Republicans refused to extend these ACA subsidies and health care costs are going to 2x3x4x as we, you know, as we're now in 2026.
- [51:04]
D
That's exactly right. I mean, last year, right. I talked to a librarian whose deductible was $15,000 a year. Right. And so that is, you know, unsustainable for folks. And you know, when people are like, oh, Medicare for all, right. Isn't, isn't that, you know, so expensive? What we're doing right now is super expensive for folks. And you know, and the cost is like that overall health and well being of people. Right. I think it's time. And people know that we need to pay not for health insurance, but for actual health care. And I think folks are ready for it. Getting rid of things like prior authorization. So like some dude behind a desk doesn't get to decide whether or not you get the life saving health care that you deserve. Right. Your doctor gets to prescribe that. Raising the minimum wage, universal child care, making sure that people have access to affordable housing, all of these things are issues that come up over and over and over again. And it's not just right Democrats who are coming to our events, it is Republicans. It's folks who say, you know, I've never been to a political event before or I don't identify with any political party, but I am super freaked out about what I see happening right now. And so I'm here. And my, you know, like invitation to people is that like everybody is welcome right now because it literally is all of us versus extremist billionaires. And I am betting on us. And people are waking up. And they know that the promises that Donald Trump made, right, about affordability, those promises are certainly not being fulfilled. And that on top of the absolute chaos and just risk that people are under every single day, even their personal safety with ice, you know, coming into our communities, it's too much. So I think folks are ready, I think people are ready for Democrats to no longer fight from a defensive crouch. I think they want people who are ready to be bold, audacious and defiant when it comes to tackling the status quo. And strongly worded letters are not how we are going to win. We have to fight for the things that people actually need and what they deserve. And I was raised on the Wellstone for Senate campaign in 2002 and my my favorite quote from Paul Wellstone is sometimes you gotta pick a fight to win one. And I think that is the kind of energy that we need right now. We need progressive fighters and not institutional corporate Dems who are going to get the seat to the highest bidder. Like we need to be beholden to Minnesotans and to grassroots folks who are being impacted right now to that point.
- [53:51]
A
How can folks who are looking to help your campaign, where can they go?
- [53:53]
D
Sure, they can go to peggyflanagan.com we'd love to have you on Team Peggy.
- [53:58]
A
Awesome. I'm gonna put that link right here on the screen and also in the post description for those who are listening on the podcast. I'm gonna put it in the show notes Peggy Flan Again, thanks so much for taking the time. Best of luck in the campaign trail and good luck with everything that's going on in your state.
- [54:11]
D
Thanks so much. Appreciate you.
- [54:14]
A
Thanks again to Elizabeth Warren, Hakeem Jeffries and Peggy Flanagan. That's it for this episode. Talk to you this weekend. You've been listening to no Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graeber, music by Wellsy, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me Ryan Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels or you can go to briantylercohen.com to learn more.