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Republicans pull a stunt in the dark of night. And I've got two interviews. Ranking member of the Oversight Committee, Robert Garcia and the Bulwark, Sam Stein. I'm Brian Teller Cohen, and you're listening to no Lie. Of course Republicans opted to pull one of the most shameful acts of this Congress in the dead of night. On Saturday, at 4 o' clock in the morning, Todd Blanche was confirmed as permanent Attorney General. Importantly, that vote was 50 to 49. Only Mitch McConnell didn't vote because, you know, he's rock climbing or windsurfing somewhere, according to the latest statement from his office insisting that he's not dead. You don't confirm someone at 4 o' clock in the morning. If this is something that you are in any way proud of doing and you. And yet doesn't surprise me at all that these are the depths that Republicans needed to stoop to to get this guy over the finish line. This is a man who, as Deputy AG personally flew to Tallahassee, spent nine hours over two days privately interviewing Ghislaine Maxwell, who is herself a convicted child sex trafficker and Jeffrey Epstein's closest accomplice. And what came out of those nine hours was a quote about how Ghislaine Maxwell never witnessed the President in any inappropriate setting in any way, end quote. And then once Maxwell offered up what I'm sure the White House views as exculpatory evidence, she was moved to a low security prison in Texas. And there was never a single excuse given why. This is also the guy at the center of the $1.776 billion Anti Weaponization Fund. This is a fund created as part of the illegal settlement that Trump struck with himself over his own leaked tax returns. A fund that would have compensated him, his his family, meaning his sons and his businesses, for supposedly being targeted by federal tax enforcement. Now, Cornyn and Tillis held up this nomination for weeks, demanding written proof that the fund was dead. And what did they get? They got a rescission of the specific order that stood that fund up, but not the underlying settlement agreement itself, which remains fully, legally intact, sitting there and waiting for a future version of the exact same fund to be created all over again. But whenever it's more politically convenient, Blanche himself already admitted under oath that Trump's lawyers could still try to enforce that settlement. So Republicans confirmed a guy who oversaw a scheme to funnel potentially billions of taxpayer dollars into Trump's own pocket, accepted a half measure that leaves the door wide open for them to do it again, and called that accountability. And look, none of this is unexpected as far as Trump and Blanche are concerned. Like, we know full well how corrupt these people are. But just as bad are the 50 Republican senators who voted to confirm them. Especially those who knew better. As I mentioned, Cordyn and Attilis pretended that their red line was the slush fund. And when Blanche offered up a rescission of that fund, but kept in place the settlement agreement that will let him create a brand new fund tomorrow if he wants, they allowed themselves to be rolled. They knew better. But God forbid they show a spine. Or how about Bill Cassidy, the physician who voted to confirm RFK Jr. Who is an anti science quack now overseeing a record number of measles cases and a cyclospora outbreak. Apparently that wasn't enough for Cassidy to learn that him trying to curry favor with the lunatics in his party has consequences for hundreds of millions of people. Because here he is doing it again, all over again, and in service of a guy who literally ended his career. There is no floor to how much these people will debase themselves for Trump. And then, of course, there's Susan Collins, who came out and heroically announced that she would be voting against Todd Blanche. Only she did it because she knew she had cover. She knew that there would be just enough Republican votes to get him through. And she was right. 51 to 49. Who could have possibly seen that coming? Meaning this wasn't some courageous stand by Susan Collins. It was a manufactured decision between her and her party to make her seem courageous, when in reality it was the polar opposite. This is a senator facing a brutal reelection fight in a state that is trending against her party, casting a vote that cost her absolutely nothing because the outcomes already locked in before she opened her mouth like this is the purest, most distilled form of consequence free performance art you could possibly conjure up. This is Susan Collins cosplaying as some maverick, while in reality serving as the most shameless MAGA sycophant that you could find. Abject contempt for her own voters, who she clearly thinks are too stupid to be able to tell the difference. And look, I could go on, but the point here is clear. Whether it is, you know, the majority of the Republican conference, the sheep who voted for this and yet would be apoplectic if the tables were turned to the quote, unquote, moderates who orchestrated some pretend opposition, you know these people are all responsible for empowering a guy who spent his career as Trump's personal criminal defense attorney, who ran secretive interference on the Epstein investigation to protect his boss, and who left a $1.8 billion self enrichment scheme structurally intact. Todd Blanche won't oversee a Justice Department that answers to the American people. He's overseeing a DOJ that serves Donald Trump, all of which pass by one vote. That's how little it took to secure just enough cowardice to get this over the finish line. Next up are my interviews with Robert Garcia and Sam Stein. But one quick request. As you know, all of my content is free. It's never paywalled, but I'm going to ask for a bit of financial support this once. If you haven't yet grabbed a copy of my new book the Day after it's available right now, I'm going to put a link to order it in the show notes of this episode. If you enjoy this podcast, if you enjoy my video content, I ask that you please grab a copy. I'm going to try this week to see if I can land at the top of the New York Times Bestseller list, so any help you're able to give is really appreciated. Thanks so much. Okay, here are my interviews with Robert Garcia and Sam Stein. No Lie is brought to you by Factor. Now, I know we've all been there where you're exhausted and starving and probably hangry. You go into the fridge and you can and probably should cook a healthy meal, but you don't have it in you, so you opt for the quick junk food instead. For me, eating healthy isn't a willpower problem. It is a setup problem. 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And you can now try the newly launched Ready to eat salads with vibrant ingredients like elote corn and miso edamame. Plus more than 70 add ons to round out your nutrition from green juices to peanut butter energy bites, all of which is ready in two minutes. Factor shops, preps, cooks and delivers straight to your door so you have more time for everything that you love. I love my factor meals. Could not recommend them highly enough and I know that you will too. So head to FactorMeals.com BTC50OFF and use code BTC50OFF to get 50% off and free daily greens per box with new subscription only while supplies last until 9 hours, 27 minutes and 26 seconds. And see website for more details. We have a new update on the prospect of Todd Blanche becoming permanent ag. With Bill Cassidy's announcement that he will be voting in favor of Todd Blanche, it looks like the path is all but clear for his permanent nomination. I'm joined now by the ranking member of the House Oversight Committee, Robert Garcia. Congressman, can you speak to me about. Because this is someone who you've dealt with and especially as it relates to the Epstein files, this is an office that you deal with quite often. Your reaction to the fact that not only Todd Blanche will be likely confirmed as the next Attorney General, but also your reaction to the fact that there just so happened to be enough Republican senators who are willing to get him over the finish line?
- [08:20]
C
Yeah, I mean, look, this is, first of all, it's not surprising, but still very disappointing. I mean, it's shameful that they're going to vote to confirm Donald Trump's former personal lawyer as the next ag. The person that doc survivors, the person that all of our the Epstein survivors have come out as, you know, in a big way to oppose. So many of them have been out so vocal about this. I mean, the person that's been in charge of the weaponization fund and the corruption that's been happening with the DOJ and the White House, I mean, Todd Blanche has been at the center of that. And for him to get confirmed, I mean, again, it's just, they're just doing what Donald Trump wants and they really don't care about any checks and balances. And, and I think it's very, of course, convenient that it basically essentially passes with the exact number needed to get the confirmation through. I mean, give me a break. Susan Collins should get zero credit for opposing Todd Blanche. I mean, come on, she could have tried to stop Todd Blanche many times. She's not chosen to do so. She's not been someone that's fought for transparency for the Epstein survivors. And so the sad day for the country. And now we have Todd Blanche who's basically his job is to protect Donald Trump as the Attorney General.
- [09:30]
B
I also want to dig into Bill Cassidy a little bit here because it's not like this is somebody who hasn't already been rolled. I mean, he offered a vote for RFK Jr. The guy is a physician and paved the way for the nomination of an anti science quack to be in charge of Health and Human services to the point where now we have a cyclospora outbreak in this country, we have a measles outbreak in this country. And all the while Bill Cassidy knows what the consequences are of putting somebody who is abjectly disqualified for his position into office and yet didn't learn anything from his past mistakes. Didn't even learn anything at the hands of a guy who ended his own political career and yet voted again to confirm Todd Blanche. And so why do you presume it's so important here that Bill Cassidy stay in the good graces of MAGA even on his way out the door and even with all of the consequences of his past votes along these same lines, kind showing the consequences in full light of day?
- [10:30]
C
Yeah, it's a real shame. I was kind of holding out that somehow Bill Cassidy would do the right thing. I mean, come on, you just talked about RFK Jr. I mean, truly 18 foil hack conspiracy theorist who's destroying HHS and the fact that, you know, that Cassidy has been largely also just absent from doing the right thing on so many issues. And on this one, it started to seem when Trump turned on him that he was actually gaining a little bit of independence. And it's, it's shameful. I mean, he probably wants something else. Who knows if he's cut some sort of deal with Donald Trump or what he's going to do after he's out of the Senate. But there should have been, this should have been easy for a Cassidy or Attilus to do. They should have. Or corny, they should have voted to not confirm Todd Blanche and done the right thing and help actually save the country and put in checks and balances. And I think that these center, at the end of the day, all of these guys are beholden to Donald Trump. And for being as unpopular and as big of a disaster as Donald Trump is currently, he can barely crack what, 30, 33, 34%. And a lot of these, a lot of these Polls are coming out. They still. They still do, at the end of the day, whatever he wants. That's a real shame.
- [11:36]
B
Talk about what it looks like for these politicians in the aftermath of their careers. Why is it important to stay in the good graces of maga?
- [11:44]
C
Would.
- [11:45]
B
Would a truly courageous stand by Bill Cassidy or some of these other Republicans mean that they would lose job prospects, lobbying prospects, in the aftermath of their Senate careers?
- [11:57]
C
Well, look, I mean, look, Donald Trump is probably the most like, spiteful, petty, vengeful person to ever serve in public office. And so would not surprise me that Donald Trump's wrath and all the. And the wrath of all those he's put in across the government and the private sector would haunt some of these guys. And so they're probably feeling some of that. But, I mean, I don't know, you're someone like Bill Cassidy who's had a long career. Don't you want to be able to sleep at night? I mean, don't you want to be able to, after your career, be able to know that you did the right thing for your family and your state and your country? And so the fact that all of these guys sell their souls to Donald Trump and to who's going to be viewed, whether they want it or not, as the worst president to have ever served in the country, period. The man will have no legacy. It will be a legacy of destruction, of death, of grift, of enriching himself. That is going to be how he will be remembered. And the fact that they're all kind of hitching their wagon to this, I just. I think it just hurts their legacy as well.
- [12:56]
B
I think the only variable in terms of someone like Bill Cassidy being able to sleep at night is him being able to afford sheets with a high enough thread count. And so that. That's the only thing that he's focused on here. I want to move over to a little bit of a different topic still. Still in the ballpark of Todd Blanche as Attorney General, but more about the Epstein files here. Can you speak about the spate of interviews and depositions that are going to be taking place in the course of the next couple of weeks?
- [13:24]
C
Yeah, I mean, look, one. I think it's important to note that Chairman Comer has held no public hearings on the Epstein file still.
- [13:32]
B
Yeah.
- [13:32]
C
And, you know, they're. They're talking about, oh, closing the investigation. And I'm like, what investigation are you talking about? You don't put people under oath. You don't. We had half of the evidence of the Epstein Files have not been released to the public. You won't actually do interviews and collect information from the survivors.
- [13:48]
B
It's 3 million files outstanding and no actual subpoenas issued for people that could give you any information. And James Comer is like, job well done. We did it, folks.
- [13:56]
C
Exactly. So. So. So all of these things we're doing, you know, with knowing that we're going to have to really get this investigation started in a big way, obviously, in the majority. But you have someone like Alan Drishowitz who's going to be coming in front of us pretty soon, who's. I mean, give me a break. I mean, the man has been the fingers and pointed at him by. By survivors and some of the horrors that he knew about or participated in. And so we're going to ask him the tough questions. But the issue with these interviews, whether it's going to be Dershowitz coming up, whether it's going to be our conversations with. With Leon Black and others, is they're not putting them under oath.
- [14:31]
B
Right.
- [14:31]
C
They're bringing them in and allowing them to basically lie and divert. We had all of these people into. To interview that were in Epstein's orbit, like former, like, personal secretaries, assistants, people with credible accusations of knowing some really serious crimes, and none of them were being put under oath. And I think the question has to come back as to why. Why aren't we putting these witnesses under oath? Well, it's because they don't want the real truth.
- [14:59]
B
Right?
- [15:00]
C
So we're not going to allow that. When we win the majority and are running this investigation, and a lot of the folks that have already been to see us, they're gonna be asked and brought back in under subpoena. Again, because they're gonna be asked the tough questions under oath, and in some cases, in a public hearing for the public to see themselves.
- [15:20]
B
So is it basically that James Comer wants to do the bare minimum to kind of notch these. These symbolic victories, these talking points, just get caught trying so that he has plausible deniability. If somebody were to come and say, you haven't done anything on the Epstein files, and he'd say, how dare you say that? We had Alan Dershowitz come in without saying that. This is just a transcribed interview. There's no obligation to be able to tell the truth. This was not under subpoena. It's not a sworn deposition. And so, again, this is just the bare minimum to be able to claim credit for something that you don't actually care about. Getting to the bottom of.
- [15:53]
C
That's exactly right. And I think that's a big part of it. And also, I also think their goal, I mean, from day one has been to protect Donald Trump. Their whole goal in the Epstein investigation has been to exonerate Donald Trump, which. That, of course, is the furthest from the truth. When you have. I think I try to remind people Donald Trump was basically Jeffrey Epstein's best friend for 10 years. They were pals, they hung out, women were recruited from Mar a Lago. There's clearly a relationship there. There was a relationship with the First Lady. What exactly was. We're gonna find out. I mean, there's a lot of questions. I mean, Donald Trump is in the files almost more than any single person. The president is Donald Trump, and yet there's no relationship. He tried to kill the investigation. He called it a hoax. I mean, no one believes. I mean, no one, maybe, except for, like Republicans in Congress, believes that there isn't more to the Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epstein story. We're going to get to the truth.
- [16:49]
B
And by the way, those people know full well they just decided to put their political careers ahead of getting to the truth. And so whatever they have to do or say to stay in the good graces of the God King is what they're gonna do. When these people are not dumb, they know full well the implications for Trump's name being listed in there 38,000 times. They're just putting their own political survival over accountability for the victims. That's right. I want your reaction to the fact that while James Comer and these oversight Republicans may be doing nothing to get to the bottom of the truth, as far as the Epstein files are concerned, that Judge Sullivan, who's presiding over the Katie Fang case against Todd Blanche and the DOJ is, is actually allowing this process to move forward. Your general reaction to that whole process taking place kind of in tandem with the lack of action happening at the hands of James Comer?
- [17:41]
C
Look, I've been a huge fan of Katie's for a long time, and she's just doing such a great job. I mean, look, this is the kind of actions that are necessary so that those in Congress are doing what they need to do and that the courts also have their own process. One thing that a lot of people don't know is that when you're in the minority, you can't directly sue on behalf of the House. Only the majority can do that. And so we're limited even to what we can do and what we can actually sue for within the judiciary. And so when we have outside groups or people like Katie taking these cases to court on principle and doing the right thing. They're incredibly helpful. And so I'm really hopeful that the courts in this case really move forward and get all these documents released. And so if we're successful there, a huge amount of credit is going to go to Katie. But I think that more importantly, survivors are going to get a lot of justice here. So very supportive of her efforts. Want to continue to push that.
- [18:37]
B
If Democrats retake the majority and you have the gavel in the oversight committee, is that something that you would join on behalf of House Democrats? Join Katie's fight to get full release of these files?
- [18:47]
C
Yeah, I mean, look, when we're in the majority, I mean there's going to be numerous, numerous efforts that we're going to take to the courts because we will have the authority to as the majority to bring certain cases in front of the courts. And so that 100%, I mean there's a, there's a stack of things that we want to do with the Epstein investigation that we only have the power to do in the majority. And so I think they're going to be, it's going to be a brand new day and for us it's a real focus on justice for the survivors.
- [19:11]
B
Last question here. We have a new topic of there is now known to the public a whole list of banks that saw a bunch of red flags as it related to Epstein's activities and yet didn't stop those activities from occurring, didn't investigate any of these activities which we now know were linked to this pedophile ring and all of these, you know, all of this illegal behavior. Can you speak a little bit about what you would like to see in terms of the relationship that these banks had with the Epstein estate?
- [19:47]
C
Yeah, I mean, first I want to thank, I mean Senator Wyden has been working on this for years and so he has been locked in on the financial banks piece. The Senate's been taking the lead on the financial piece on Epstein. And so what they put out was just really important in just making it very clear that the banks are part of the COVID up. And there's a lot of questions that we now have, including on the Senate side for these banks, for the executives who directed these, this cover up. Why did this happen the way it did? And so what that report that just came out really does is it opens up a series of questions for us that begins to piece a lot more of the puzzles together. You know, there's a lot that we're investigating that for the sake of the investigation, let's say, is not public. Right.
- [20:32]
B
Yeah.
- [20:32]
C
And so what we are doing is putting together the financial web of who paid who, where the money is coming from, how did Epson get his money, who. And that report the Senate put out is a big piece of that. The staff of the Senate on that committee and Senator Wyden and our team on oversight have been talking extensively for over the last year. So there's a lot good happening there and more to come.
- [20:56]
B
Awesome. Well, thank you for taking the time today. Thanks for the work that you continue to do, even in the face of all of these suppression efforts by Todd Blanche, Donald Trump and the rest of the Republicans in the House and Senate. Appreciate you taking the time here.
- [21:09]
C
Anytime. Thanks.
- [21:13]
B
It looks like we might have some MAGA infiltration here where there absolutely should not be some. I'm joined now by Sam Stein, who works at the Bulwark. Sam, you wrote a great article which is titled I'm going to throw it right here on the screen. Did MAGA infiltrate the Green Party in Michigan? So this caught my attention a big way. The reporting was outstanding. Talk about this phenomenon that's otherwise completely flying under the radar.
- [21:38]
D
Yeah. So what happened here was that there was a piece, I forget what it was in. It might have been punchboard or somewhere else where they noted that there's this weird phenomenon where Green Party candidates are popping up on the ballot and there's some question about whether they're actually Green Party members. You know, they seem like not. And so I, I asked a colleague of mine, Brendan Hartnett, at the poll work, to start looking at other filings in different states. Just sort of suspicious, like maybe if it's happening in Pennsylvania, maybe it's happening elsewhere. And Brendan comes back to me and he's like, I think I found a. I think about a good one. I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, well, this is guy in Michigan in the 7th congressional district, which is like the tightest House race this cycles.
- [22:21]
B
Yeah.
- [22:21]
D
Decide by 1 percentage point in 2024 or went for Trump by 1 percentage point. He's like, this guy, his name's Shane Diedrich. There's nothing on this guy. I can't find anything on it. He came out of nowhere. It's like I looked into him a little bit and he's given two donations or something like that. Both are to Republicans. He has no social media presence whatsoever, like limited. There's a Twitter account, but doesn't follow anyone. But the People that does follow, one of them is. Looks like a Republican operative. And so we sort of looked into it, started digging around a little bit, and, and it just became like more and more curious. Right. So Shane Diedrich, 25, 26 year old from Michigan in the district, does follow this one Republican operative who follows him back. This person, her name's Parker Mat. She's the daughter of two very prominent Republicans in the state, one of whom was the state party chair for Republicans in Michigan. She was embroiled in the 2020 election scandal there. But she went off, she got off clean. And then we started calling around and we started looking for more breadcrumbs and it was just very weird. And then I gotta, I gotta be honest, the craziest thing we found was we, we managed to find the actual Green Party nomination process because, you know, you sort of wonder, how did he manage to get on the ballot? And Brian, the brink. This, this nomination process sort of blew my mind at how flimsy it was, how easy it was to just get your name. I had no clue you could just get your name on about this easily. But I'm happy to explain to you if you have any questions. Yeah, that was the story.
- [23:52]
B
Talk to me about this, this nomination process.
- [23:55]
D
Okay, I'm not joking. Like, this is how it works or this is how I discovered it at least. So the Green Party actually of Michigan actually sent us the, the video of their convention, which is what this, what happens. It's all taking place over Zoom. There's one room with like, you know, it seems like 30 people in it, all Green Party members, but a lot of people are dialed into Zoom. In about two hours into the convention, Shane Diedrich, our guy, raises his hand. Not like literally because he's. His camera's completely off. He does the hand raise emoji and they call on Shane and he never turns his camera on. Like, never. He's just in the dark. He's like, hi, I'd like to be the Green Party candidate for the seventh Congressional District. And the Green Party people are like, okay, who are you? And he's like, ah, you know, I'm, I'm just, I'm from the area. You know, I do this, I do that. I haven't really been involved in politics that much. Like, well, how did you, how'd you hear about us? He's like, you know, just started like looking around. Felt like Tom Barrett, the sitting congressman, Republican, is not doing a good job, didn't like the two moderate Democrats. There's actually a third Democrat who won, not the moderates.
- [25:04]
B
Right. Who's decidedly not moderate, who's very much one of the co founders of the Sunrise movement.
- [25:10]
D
Well, that's the irony of this. And we could talk about whether this all matters in a bit, but. So Diedrich's on. He's like, I didn't like the moderates. I don't think they're standing up to Trump enough. And it's all going sort of weirdly like, you know, people are like, well, are you registered as a Green Party member? He's like, nah, but I can get the paperwork to you. Like, can you authenticate your. Who you are? He's like, yeah, I can get you an affidavit. And at one point, like, almost 15 minutes in, someone just is like, all right, I. I'll give you a. I'll afford your nomination. And then someone seconds it. And then very, very abruptly, someone's like, wait a second, hold on. Like, should we vet this guy a little bit more? And then another guy's like, you know, I'm a little bit nervous. This is rushed. Like, what if this guy's a mega plant? And Diedrich's like, you know, I guess that's probably a good thing to, you know, consider, but he never really denies it. And then they keep going. They go back and forth. They're debating the bylaws. At one point, they're wondering if Tom Barrett's even running, which he is. It's a whole. It's a mess. It's like a complete shambolic mess. And then, honestly, I kid you not, someone's like, Googling him in real time. Woman says, it looks like you played ice hockey. He's like, yes, I did. And that's it. And then 33 minutes after he first digitally raised his hand, a woman's like, all right, it looks like we have a consensus. And then two people forward it and. And confirm it. And he has made the Green Party's congressional nominee in one of the most critical House races this cycle.
- [26:37]
C
It's that.
- [26:37]
D
It was that quick. That's it.
- [26:39]
B
All right, so I think it's worth asking here, first and foremost, as the result of your reporting, obviously there's going to be looking into, by. By the Green Party, actually, some, Some real vetting. Besides, just, we googled you, and it looks like you played ice hockey. So is there any way to go back on. On what they've done or once they've. They've allowed him to become the nominee under their banner? That's it.
- [27:05]
D
So we asked him. So what we did is we, you know, we did our reporting, we, we did our due diligence. We called all the people, we called the, you know, before we, we called Parker Matic, we called her parents, we called Shane Diedrich, we called like everyone we could. And obviously we talked to the Green Party because they sent us the convention video. But once we got everything, or once Brendan, I should say got all the reporting done, then we went back to the Green Party and said, look, this is what we discovered. Can you tell us like what happened here? Like why, why wasn't there more vetting? Do you know anything about this guy? Did you know that he had donated to Republicans? Did you know he had this connection to this conservative operative? Like, did you know any of this? And they're like, you know, they kind of were a little bit caught off guard. The communications manager, that's his title, said, well, you know, if, if it, I'm going to, I'm going to probably reach out to, to, to Diedrich after this and have a one on one which seemed a little bit sort of after the fact. You know, it's like maybe should have.
- [28:06]
B
Probably good idea.
- [28:07]
D
Yeah, yeah, maybe talk to him before you nominate him. Yeah, but he did say, I'll read the quote. There's some possibility that he's Republican plan. But based on the strength of that evidence, I would say there's also, you know, some sort of possibility that he's had an evolution of his, of his views and values. Maybe I'll try to call him and see if he has any comment. Maybe they did raise the possibility that they could disavow his candidacy, that they could bull the endorsement. I don't know the technicalities about getting him off the ballot. He is on the ballot currently. He is listed on the ballot on the Secretary of State's website. I have no idea what the legal or political processes are for pulling that and maybe it happens. And we are certainly keeping tabs on whether or not, you know, the Green Party acts on this.
- [28:59]
B
So talk to me a little bit about two things here in conjunction because I think they're important. What does the Green Party represent and what does it represent that would be different from the current Michigan 7 nominee on the Democratic line? Because that is one of the most progressive and dare I say it, Green candidates that we've had ever had?
- [29:19]
D
Right. So I think a lot of people look at this and be like, okay, well, you know, he's not going to take that many votes away, if any, from, from this guy who's been Nominated because you know, this guy founded the Sunrise movement. He's obviously a progressive. This is William Lawrence, who is the Democratic Party nominee. And that's probably true. It's probably true. The other reason to not be to work job about it, although I am pretty worked up about it, is that traditionally people who support the Green Party are not really that gettable actually for Democrats. Even though there might be a lot of overlap in the Venn diagram on the issues. One of the things that the Green Party really does represent is this idea that the duopoly of our party's system needs to go. And so they are voting not just because they care about the environment, which is they're one of their key pillars. They're voting because they believe political parties as currently constituted are, need to be broken up and can't be trusted. And so anyone who supports the Green Party probably is not going to cross over and vote for a Democrat. That being said, that's not true of every voter. There are going to be some voters who look at this and say, okay, you know, I might go with the Green Party. And having someone on the ballot does complicate to a degree the election. And in a district like this where again, Trump won the district by 1 percentage point, Elise Slotkin won it in her Senate race, but obviously Tom Barrett won in the congressional race. It is like literally one of the few truly jump ball districts. Yeah, you know, we're talking about like a couple hundred votes potentially deciding and you know, it's, it's, it's kind of crazy to think that the Green Party could be spoiler nominating a candidate that they vetted for 33 minutes, barely at all.
- [31:03]
B
Well, I think, look, I appreciate, I don't agree with, but I appreciate the idea that the Green Party will exist for people to have an outlet who don't like the duopoly of the two party system. I get that, but, but it undermines the whole point of it. If you have a potential MAGA spoiler, who's there to actually entrench the two party system just to do it in deference to Republicans.
- [31:25]
D
Right. And this was the point made by other people when they were reporting on the Pennsylvania Green Party infiltration, things like that, what's going to happen is there's going to be, and this is not true of everyone in the Green Party. I don't want to paint too broad a brush here, but the people who will go there are going to do things like rail against data centers. They're going to say this is awful. We can't have data, you know, these data centers can't build them. They're going to SAP our environment, they're going to waste our energy and they're going to end up electing Republicans who will be supportive of data centers.
- [31:57]
B
Right.
- [31:58]
D
And look, I've plenty, I have plenty of experience talking to third party candidates through the course of my time in journalism and trying to have this type of conversation with them. And it's not persuasive to them. It's very rare that you actually get someone who's committed third party candidate on the environmental side especially who's like, yeah, you're right. Like we have to play the long game. We have to work within the system because to them it's the system that's the problem. And they don't think the system will ever change unless, you know, you prove that a third party is somewhat viable or something like that. So I, you know, it is what it is to a degree, and I hate to say that, but rarely do we see them being so susceptible to infiltration. That's the story here. And I guess I had never really actually, you know, done a deep dive into how they nominate their candidates. And this was just jaw dropping to me.
- [32:48]
B
Yeah, could, could, could probably use some
- [32:50]
D
reform, maybe a little tinker here and there.
- [32:52]
B
What about people who are going to be watching this and say, look, you know, Jill Stein served as a spoiler in the most consequential election of our history. And so this isn't like a one off. This, this may very well be par for the course for the Green Party. And so what do you say to those folks?
- [33:11]
D
They're right. I mean, this happens. Right. Like this happened with Jill Stein. Obviously, Ralph Nader is the big one from 2000. They would say the margins don't really tell the story that the people who voted for Joe Stein were never going to vote for Hillary Clinton and the people who voted for Hoffner really were never going to vote for Al Gore. And I, you know, I'm not, I would say to that, sure. But that's not, you don't have, you can also think differently through different prisms about our politics in that, you know, electing George Bush in 2000 was detrimental to the Green Party's other key pillars beyond the duopoly. And the problems with it, that electing Donald Trump obviously was detrimental to the Green Party's key pillars beyond the duopoly. And at some point you have to sort of be strategic about it, pick your races more responsibly, maybe Even try to work within the system a little bit more aggressively. But that's not their M.O. and I don't imagine that this expose, as great as I think it was, is going to change how they think.
- [34:17]
B
And by the way, for those who are watching right now, it was phenomenal. It was great reporting. Highly recommend for anybody who's watching and listening right now. I'm going to put the link to that piece in the Post description of this video. Read the piece. Sign up for the Bulwark. You will not regret it. Excellent job. I want to ask one last question in the minute that we have here at the end, and that is for your reaction to, on a completely separate topic, your reaction to the fact that we got a no from Susan Collins on Todd Blanche. We got a new no from Lisa Murkowski on Todd Blanche. But wouldn't you know it, Bill Cassidy came forward and said that he would vote in favor of Todd Blanche, which means he just squeaks by by one vote. So let me get your, your reaction to the fact that it just so happened that Todd Blanche had exactly the amount of votes that he needed to get through and no extra votes, especially for people who just so happen to be running for reelection in a tough state this year.
- [35:13]
C
Well, yeah.
- [35:13]
D
First, let me take a point of perspiration because you brought it up. Thank you for the compliments, for the reporting and for anyone who's not familiar with the Bulwark would encourage you to sign up. You can sign up for free if you just want to take a gander and then you can sign up to be a paid member. It helps support reporting like this. So we appreciate that. As for Blanche, we're recording this like what, Friday, 11:45 Eastern. So he just, Bill Cossey spoke like an hour ago and you know, I, I was, this is not a non surprise to me. This is how it usually works. I, I, first of all, I never expected Cassidy to really show much courage on this vote. I also expected that they would line it up so the people they needed to take those votes against Blanche, the two would take the votes. I think Murkowski probably is the interesting one because in theory, I guess, you know, she could have voted yes, but she probably was like, I'm not going to do that. Here's my thoughts on it. One is, you know, we need to stop waiting for profiles and courage from congressional Republicans. They don't come. It happened once in the cane. That's it. You're not going to get more. It is what it is. Two is it's, you know, Collins gets to say she voted against Blanche, but I'm not sure that Cassie did her any favors necessarily here because the MO and the knock on cons is that she only votes no when it's inconsequential. And that's exactly what happened here. I'm just gonna throw out a third thing here, which is I don't think this gets appreciated enough. I, I wonder how much Cassidy this. Because he wants to help John Thune and it's not really about Trump. I don't think, I mean, I don't think Cassidy cares all that much about Trump at this juncture. I think he cares about Thune and I think he wants Thune to not have to deal with Trump and have some success as Majority leader. And he looks around, he's like, okay, like, Thune's got to be able to show that he can get things through. And I'm guessing Thune leaned very heavily on him to say, I need you to do this so that I can get Trump off my back and I can maintain my post. And you don't want like a Rick Scott in here. Right. And I think that was probably more persuasive to Cassidy than anything Trump would have said. Cassidy made a point in the hearing that I think is, you know, I can see it a little bit, which is that, you know, Blanche is going to be serving no matter what. But here's my response to that. Like, if Blanche is serving as an acting Attorney general versus a confirmed attorney general. Yeah, he's still serving. But you're giving him the stamp of approval, right?
- [37:35]
C
Yeah.
- [37:36]
D
A mandate to do what you want to do or what he wants to do. And that means something. I mean, that does mean something. And I found the whole, I found the whole thing to be just sort of smoke and mirrors, right? Like this whole, we're getting rid of the weaponization fund. It's not dead. The immunity, like the IRS immunity deal, like, it's still there. So we walk through these shows often and we try to build up the drama, but to me, this outcome was pretty pre baked, honestly.
- [38:04]
B
We'll leave it there. Sam Stein from the Bulwark again, for those who are watching, please subscribe to the Bull Work. That link is right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. Sam, appreciate your reporting. Thanks for taking the time.
- [38:15]
D
Hey, Brian, thanks for having me on, man. Appreciate you.
- [38:18]
B
Thanks again to Robert Garcia and Sam Stein. That's it for this episode. Talk to you on Wednesday. You've been listening to no Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graeber, music by Wellsy and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me, Rienteller Cohen on all of my other channels. Or you can go to briantylercohen.com to learn more.
- [38:49]
A
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