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- [00:00]
Sleep Number Representative
Why choose a Sleep Number Smart bed?
- [00:02]
Rakuten Advertiser
Can I make my site softer?
- [00:03]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Can I make my site firmer?
- [00:05]
Adam Klassfeld
Can we sleep cooler?
- [00:06]
Sleep Number Representative
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- [00:32]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Trump finally caves on his Greenland threats and I've got three interviews. Ro Khanna gives a major update on the Epstein files in court. Wes Moore issues major redistricting news and journalist Adam Klassfeld discusses the end of Lindsey Halligan's tenure as U.S. attorney. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen and you're listening to no Lie. In a major update, Trump has issued the following statement as it relates to Greenland, he took to true social writing. Based upon a very productive meeting I've had with the Secretary General of NATO, Mark Ruddy, we have formed the framework of a future deal with respect to Greenland and in fact the entire Arctic region. This solution, if consummated, will be a great one for the United States of America and all NATO nations. And he goes on to talk more and more. But when he was asked about this post, here's what he said. Does it still include the United States having ownership of Greenland like you've said you wanted?
- [01:22]
Donald Trump
It's a long term deal. It's the ultimate long term deal and I think it puts everybody in a really good position, especially as it pertains to security, minerals and everything else.
- [01:35]
Brian Tyler Cohen
How long, how long would the deal be, Mr. President?
- [01:39]
Donald Trump
Infinite.
- [01:40]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So let's talk about what's happening here because it's actually quite simple. Trump ramps up demands over the weekend that Greenland become a part of the United States. The market responds by plummeting. Dow drops about a thousand points. Nasdaq drops 600 points. S&P drops about 150 from Friday to Tuesday. Trump is super susceptible to the market crashing as the direct result of his own actions. And that was the case here. So what did Trump do? Well, he's playing make believe. That good news. We've formed a framework for a future deal. Does that mean that there's a deal for the US to acquire Greenland in the works? No, not at all. Trump is conceding defeat by pretending to have won. The framework for a future deal means nothing. It's Fluff. It's empty calories. It is plausible deniability for Trump to be able to declare victory when all he's done is lose. And if you're wondering how seriously Trump takes frameworks, consider the fact that Donald Trump said in 2024 that he had concepts of a plan to replace the aca. That was two years ago. To be clear, there is zero replacement for the aca. They've done a good job destroying the aca, but there's no replacement. There's no plan. So when Trump says that he's got frameworks and concepts, he's bullshitting. He's hoping that people can't see the blatantly obvious reality that he's got quite literally no framework and. And no concepts. In fact, if you needed proof of just how much there is no plan, just listen to his explanation here.
- [03:05]
Interviewer or Reporter
Getting back, a lot of some of the nervousness we had in the last couple of days. The tariffs are off. Nothing happens on February 1st.
- [03:12]
Donald Trump
No, we took that off because it looks like we have pretty much the.
- [03:15]
Interviewer or Reporter
Concept of a deal, a deal of ownership.
- [03:18]
Donald Trump
A deal. Well, it's a little bit complex, but we'll explain it down the line. But the Secretary General of NATO and I and some other people were talking, and it's the kind of a deal that I wanted to be able to make.
- [03:30]
Interviewer or Reporter
Where does Denmark? Did they weigh in on what they want, what they would agree to?
- [03:36]
Donald Trump
Well, I assume they did, because he very much represents. He's a strong leader, Mark, you know, Mark Muta. And he. I assume he's been speaking to them. He's been speaking to all of them.
- [03:47]
Interviewer or Reporter
Are mineral rights involved? Is ownership involved? Did the golden Dome sway people?
- [03:52]
Donald Trump
I don't want to say yet, but.
- [03:53]
Interviewer or Reporter
The golden dome was very compelling today when you talked about that.
- [03:56]
Donald Trump
Yeah, yeah, the golden dome. And they're going to be involved in the golden Dome, and they're going to be involved in mineral rights, and so are we.
- [04:05]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I have never been more convinced that nothing will happen than listening to Trump use all of those words to say exactly nothing. So, look, who knows whether or not Trump is going to accept the fact that the US Is going to annex Greenland. He may use this moment as an opportunity to do what's smart and cut his losses and pretend that he's a winner and then move on to the next bullshit item on his list, or because he's unhinged and unmoored, he may wake up tomorrow morning, channel his inner Napoleon, and decide to just redouble his efforts. There's no way to tell, because Trump doesn't have any long standing values. He just has errant synapses fire in his brain and then words fall out of his face. And that's what counts as policy in today's gop. But this actually teaches us an important lesson because it shows that despite his best efforts to convince us otherwise, he. He's not immune to pressure. He's still very much responsive to external factors. The stock market and bond markets are one for sure, but the people are another. So when Trump tries to chill free speech, it's because he knows the power of that speech. When he tries to silence comedians, it's because he knows the power of those comedians. When he tries to get journalists to bend to his will, it's because he knows the power of those journalists. He is still susceptible to public pressure, which is why he tries so hard to misinform and censor the public, because he knows that it has a massive impact. All of which is to say, do not resign yourself to this idea that Trump is some all powerful ruler, right? That's a pretense he uses to compensate for the fact that he's not. He's actually weak. He's got a dismal approval rating, he's losing independence by massive margins, and he's underwater on almost every single issue there is, from the economy to immigration to inflation. Epstein, Greenland, you name it. And in a few months, he will lose his congressional majority, meaning he will be a lame duck president with a neutered legislative agenda. If ever there was a time to not take our feet off the gas, it's right now. Next up are my interviews with Ro Khanna, Wes Moore, and Adam Klassfeld. No LIE is brought to you by Oneskin. So let's talk about New Year's resolutions for a sec. January used to be about totally reinventing yourself. Now it's more like doing an honest audit of what's actually working and doubling down on that. Which for me has meant using One skin. I've taken a particular liking to the OS one Face moisturizer, which I use literally every day. And with One Skin, I know I'm supporting my long term skin health at the cellular level. At the core is their patented OS1 peptide, the first ingredient proven to target senescent cells, the root cause of wrinkles, crappiness and loss of elasticity, all key signs of skin aging. And these results have been validated in four different clinical studies. Certified safe for sensitive skin. One Skin products are free from over 1500 harsh or irritating ingredients. Dermatologists tested and have been awarded the National Eczema association seal of Acceptance by the nea, delivering powerful results without irritation. Customers consistently rave about how their skin is smoother, firmer and healthier looking, with results that get better over time, improving both the appearance and the overall health of their skin. No wonder Oneskin's products have over 10,000 5 star reviews. Born from over 10 years of longevity research, OneSkin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the cells that cause visible signs of aging, helping you to unlock your healthiest skin. And as you age and for a limited time, Oneskin is making it even easier to stay consistent with 15% off when you use code BTC. At OneSkin Co BTC, that's up to 15% off with code BTC. After you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. I'm joined now by Congressman Ro Khanna. Congressman, thanks for joining me.
- [07:38]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Thanks for having me back.
- [07:40]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So I want to speak about this latest update on the Epstein files. You and Thomas Massie have gone into court and asked a judge to appoint a special master. The that effort was rebuffed. And so my first question here, given the fact that there is no standing right now to ask for a special master without a lawsuit, is the next step here gonna be for you and Thomas Massie to bring a lawsuit against the DOJ to actually try and give standing to the court to be able to rule on this issue?
- [08:08]
Congressman Ro Khanna
There were two important facts in the judge's finding. First, he said that Massie and I raised, quote, legitimate concerns about DOJ's compliance and lack of producing documents. And Secretary said that there is an avenue to the representatives to get involved. They should consider bringing a lawsuit. And we are exploring the options, emotions and lawsuits to enter. And I know some of the survivors are exploring it as well. So there's definitely going to be further.
- [08:43]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Action so that there can be something of a belt and suspenders approach. Would there be any interest in including some of the survivors as plaintiffs in a potential case that you and Thomas Massie would bring so that even if members of Congress don't have standing, well, that's okay because we've also got survivors who are plaintiffs. And if y' all don't have standing, they might.
- [09:05]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Well, as you saw, there were two survivors who petitioned the court, Haley Robeson and Lisa Phillips, both showing extraordinary courage. And we are looking at possibly bringing a suit with survivors, possibly bringing a motion with survivors. We're also looking at survivors possibly doing it on their own initiative. All options are on the table. And Massey and I are still looking at our congressional power. We may bring inherent contempt or impeachment against Bondi. You had Representative Luna today in Oversight talk about how upset she is both with the judge, but also with the doj. I believe we would get Republicans on an impeachment and that would be very significant if a Republican House voted to impeach Pam Bondi.
- [09:52]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Do you feel like Congress was conned by virtue of the fact that Donald Trump said that he was going to sign this thing because he was going to offer some good faith effort to actually release these files and now he, you know, we're more than a month past the deadline of these files and frankly, we haven't seen any documents get released in the last few weeks. And of the documents that they did deign to release, it's less than 1% of what actually exists.
- [10:19]
Congressman Ro Khanna
I'm sorry. No, I don't think we were kind. I think Donald Trump was forced into signing this. I mean, he didn't want to sign this at any step. We basically forced him to sign it because he knew he would lose the Republican votes in the House and the Senate. It was the most significant Democratic bill that the President was forced to sign. So I didn't think, Massey didn't think that there would be Kumbaya after he signed it. We knew it would be a fight. Now there have been some significant documents that have come out. One saying that Maria had complained in 1996 to the FBI and no one paid attention to her, proving that she was not lying and that this whole thing could have been prevented if law enforcement had acted. And we also know there are co conspirators from documents that came out. Why does that matter? We now know there were other rich and powerful men, part of the Epstein class who abused these young girls. But this is going to be a tooth and nail fight to get the documents out that we want to see. Mainly the F. The F302, the FBI statements that the survivors made which named these other men. And Massey and I are prepared to fight this year to get, get as many documents out.
- [11:24]
Brian Tyler Cohen
At what point if there's no documents that are being released, do the survivors just come forward and say, look, we have our freedom of speech. If the Trump administration isn't gonna abide by the law, then we'll just come out and name the co conspirators of this crime ourselves?
- [11:43]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Well, they are reluctant to do that because they already are facing threats and they could face defamation suits I mean, look at Massey and I. Massey is facing a. A primary challenge in Kentucky. I have upset some of the billionaires in Silicon Valley, not just because I've said they should pay more tax, but because I have said that the Epstein class needs to go. And Kara Swisher has pointed out that a number of people from Silicon Valley were on Epstein's Island. So we, we've taken on very powerful people and the survivors have. So I don't know if they will at me wanting to go publicly and be sued. One thing, though, I should say is I know some of these survivors. I know they're lawyers. They're in consultation today with the Department of Justice about documents that are going to be released and making sure their names are redacted, which gives me some confidence that more documents are coming out. So I think you would see the survivors stand in front of the steps of the Capitol again if that process comes to a complete halt. But behind the scenes, there have been conversations about further documents coming out.
- [12:50]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Was it a mistake not to include some punishment in the event that the Epstein files weren't released? In the actual legislation, like right now, there's no enforcement mechanism other than the fact that it's just a law, but there's no deterrent effect. There's no consequences for the DOJ for not doing it. If you could go back, would that be changed at all?
- [13:10]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Well, we did consider this when we drafted the law, and what we were told by counsel is that it would constitute obstruction of justice to violate the Epstein Transparency act, punishable by imprisonment, punishable by a huge fine. So we haven't seen that. I mean, the judge didn't rule that the Epstein Transparency act, that you could just violate it without consequence. He ruled that Massey and I didn't have standing and that he couldn't in this criminal case, enforce the Epstein Transparency Act. But certainly someone could sue under that Epstein Transparency act who did have standing. The survivors would. And the. The consequences could be prosecution in holding these people in accountable, and a future president could do that.
- [13:56]
Brian Tyler Cohen
But would it be up to the DOJ to be the entity that actually prosecutes? Or is there some other entity that could prosecute to enforce the Epstein files? Transparency Act?
- [14:05]
Congressman Ro Khanna
No, it would be the doj. And that's why ultimately we may have to wait for a Democratic president both to have the full release of these Epstein files and to have prosecution of those who violated the Epstein Transparency Act. And people say, well, why does it matter? Why does it matter? It's 20 years old. You know, this person's been dead, why does it matter? Because it goes to trust. If you want to do what I want to do. Medicare for all, free public college, a living wage, a housing program. How can you do that when people don't trust government? And the reason the Epstein act is front and center, the reason that people are heckling the president as a pedophile protector, is it's a symbol of a government that is protecting corrupt rich and powerful men and that has lost the trust of the American public. When we release the files, when we prosecute those who have committed grave harms or were hiding files, then we will begin to restore trust with the American public.
- [14:58]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I want to talk about Dan Bongino for a moment. He has kind of swept back onto the podcasting space as if he's some, like, white knight, some crusader coming back from battle. What would your message be to the folks who tune in to Dan Bongino or who believed him when he built up his brand as this champion for accountability and transparency, recognizing that he did an entire stint as deputy FBI director, did not release any of the files, in fact, was part of an administration that is right now continued to be engaged in a cover up, and yet still has the audacity to present himself as some hero when he goes back to podcasting.
- [15:38]
Congressman Ro Khanna
I'd love to get on Dan Bongino's podcast or have him come on yours and ask him some simple questions. Why aren't they releasing the witness memorandum where the survivors named these rich and powerful men? Where are they? We know where they are. Why aren't they being released? Dan Bongier, you know, why aren't they releasing Epstein's emails and pictures that they took from the computer? You are the one who called for these files to be released, and now you've gone silent. Why don't you speak up and now that you're on the outside and help us get these files released. And the interesting thing to me is I've not heard him answer those very simple questions.
- [16:13]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah. Yeah. To what extent do you think, does the fact that, you know, we're seeing all of this increased activity in Venezuela, in Greenland, with ice, do you. Is there any part of you that thinks that that is intended to distract from, you know, what was a pretty devastating story with regard to Epstein? And I don't ask this question to say that those things aren't important or that they're just a distraction, because I think that Donald Trump's desire to invade and annex a sovereign country is unto itself a pretty clear testament of Just how depraved he is, just how lawless he is. So I don't wanna, I don't wanna diminish the gravity of what he's doing there. But do you think to any degree that some complementary benefit, some tertiary benefit for him, is that okay? Every day that we're talking about Greenland or ice or whatever it may be, is a day that we're not talking about the fact that he's implicated in the largest pedophile cover up in American history.
- [17:11]
Congressman Ro Khanna
I believe what Trump is doing in Venezuela and Greenland is motivated out of American arrogance. He wants to have wars, not of liberation, but wars of conquest. He wants to literally take land, he wants to take resources from other people, and he wants to rid this country of immigrants who've come from Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala and Stephen Miller and that have that project. So that is an ideological project of gunboat diplomacy, of an imperial foreign policy like the Monroe Doctrine, and of trying to rid us of immigrants from what they believe are the wrong countries. So I think it's something so much more sinister and deeper than just distracting from a terrible scandal. That said, the, the Epstein scandal isn't going away. And it's probably the thing that gets under the President's skin the most, that it's the only thing that, you know, a lot of people don't understand Venezuela, they don't understand, candidly, ice. They don't understand the older dispute about Greenland. You know what they do understand? Rich and powerful men raping girls. And they understand that they got away with it and they hate pedophiles. And so you have people like a factory worker in Michigan saying, Mr. President, why are you protecting pedophiles? And this gets under Donald Trump's skin because this is the one thing that is broken through the common culture. You go to, you know, when the super bowl comes, you talk to the folks there watching the game and you ask them for their detailed views on Madero or on, on Greenland. They may not know, but they'll all have an opinion on the Epstein files and who were on Epstein's island and who was on that plane and why they aren't being prosecuted. And that's why Donald Trump is so afraid of this.
- [18:54]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And finally, when can we expect some news with regard to next steps in court? Again, we had spoken at the top of this interview about the fact that, that there wasn't standing for this particular, you know, court situation. But when can we accept, expect some next steps, be it a lawsuit or.
- [19:11]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Something else over the next two weeks, you will probably hear what Massie and are going to do next legally, what we're going to do in terms of inherent contempt or impeachment, and then the upcoming testimony of Pam Bondi on February 11 at Judiciary and let's see if she comes to oversight as well as Maxwell's deposition in front of the Oversight Committee. So like I said, this is not going away. I expect more documents to be coming out from what I've been told by survivors, lawyers or being consulted on some of the release. So we also will be monitoring what they release next.
- [19:48]
Governor Wes Moore
Great.
- [19:49]
Brian Tyler Cohen
We'll leave it there. Thank you as always for your leadership on this issue, for not letting this thing slide by the wayside and thanks for taking the time today.
- [19:56]
Congressman Ro Khanna
Thank you Brian.
- [20:00]
Brian Tyler Cohen
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- [21:36]
Governor Wes Moore
Man. Great to be back with you.
- [21:37]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So you have a big announcement as far as redistricting is concerned. This is an issue that we've spoken about at length. But now there is new news here. Can you explain what that news is?
- [21:46]
Governor Wes Moore
There is. I mean this has been a high priority for me where I said in this moment we are not just going to let democracy die and we are not going to let Donald Trump determine what our democracy should look like. And as these other states, these Donald Trump hand picked states are going through mid decade redistricting, I said, well Maryland's not going to sit on our hands while this is happening. So I said, you know, I said and I called for Governor's Redistricting Advisory Commission that has now spent the past months listening to Marylanders all across the state where every Marylander had a chance to have their, their voice heard to ensure that we can have the type of maps, maps that represent the people. And just last night the, the reducing Advisory Commission came back with their recommendations of what new maps could look like. So I'm really excited because these maps are not just going to make it, make it more competitive, but it's going to make sure that our voices are actually heard and give us an opportunity to push back against this, this threat and this theft of democracy that we are seeing from Donald Trump right now.
- [22:47]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And I've taken a look at the maps, it seems that the closest district would actually be D plus 8. So this would in theory be an 8 to nothing democratic map. So what are next steps in this process and do you expect that it'll be in place by 2026's midterm elections?
- [23:08]
Governor Wes Moore
Yes, I'm thankful because the work of the, of the commission put this in place. So there is time to be able to have this in place by the November elections. And so the next step is now it's going to go in front of the Maryland General assembly. And so the Maryland House and the Maryland Senate will have a chance to debate, will have a chance to make adjustments if they see fit, but then they will have a chance to vote. And because any type of changes need to happen with the, you know, with the authorization of the Maryland General Assembly. So the ask that I and ask that all of us have right now is call a vote. If you believe that, if you believe in democracy, it's not just about preserving democracy from Donald Trump. Show what that looks like by having a vote in your own chamber right now too.
- [23:53]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Does this go to the chambers before it goes to the people of Maryland. Can you explain a little bit of the process in terms of who actually gets a say on this?
- [24:01]
Governor Wes Moore
Absolutely. So the next step is actually it's going to go in front of the chambers. So the Maryland House and the Maryland Senate will have a chance to have. To have their debates. You know, depending on the legislation that they will put forward on it, we can then have. Have legislation that is accepted, that is passed, and then incorporated into the, into the primary and the general elections that we will have later this year. So the next step is the General Assembly. The ball is in their court, and. And we're hoping that they move accordingly.
- [24:29]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And can you give a little insight into what you've heard from members of the General assembly in terms of their. The likelihood that they'll adopt it?
- [24:37]
Governor Wes Moore
Well, the great thing is that when you talk to the individual members, the individual members that we've had a chance to speak to, they want to see democracy upheld. They respect the work that actually happened from the Redistricting Advisory Commission, who really put countless hours over these past months to be able to hear from Marylanders. And they now have a unique opportunity to make sure that they can put their stamp on, on history and their pushback against this absolute, brutal takeover that we are watching Donald Trump try to do on our democracy, where he's trying to alter the rules and rig the rules all across the country in order for him to win an election because he can't win on fair terms. And so the reason that I'm anxious for the vote is regardless of what party bosses might say, the people, even the members of the delegation that I have spoken to, they're excited for a vote and they're excited to have their voice heard.
- [25:31]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Are there any public holdouts for this legislation?
- [25:35]
Governor Wes Moore
Well, no, I think, you know, it's been, you know, publicly reported some of the challenge that the Senate president, William Ferguson, has had on it. But the great thing that we know is the way democracy works is one person has one vote. And so what we're hoping for is that for the other members of the Senate and the other members of the House, that they will be able to have their voice heard and be able to make sure that our democracy is sustained. You know, I'm, you know, and I think even for, for, for President Ferguson, you know, he understands the threat that we are seeing here. I just know that when I'm thinking about this moment, there's a certain measure of urgency, there's a certain measure of fearlessness that we've got to move. And some of the opponents that I have, that I've heard from, it just keeps, it seems like the, you know, they keep moving the goalpost as to why they can't do anything. And my point is stop spending energy on why you can't do it and spend your energy on why we must do it.
- [26:36]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I think that's especially important in light of the fact that it would have been that easy for California Democrats to say, oh, we can't do it, because xyz. It would have been that easy for Virginia Democrats to say, oh, we can't, we can't do redistricting in our own state because of X, Y, Z, which would be bad enough unto itself. This, this idea of, okay, how do I get to know? Instead of how do I get to. Yes, and, but especially to try and get to know in light of the fact that Republicans are not looking for ways to get to know. Republicans have, have sparked off this process in Texas, in North Carolina, in Ohio, in Florida now. And so, and so the asymmetry here is, is especially dangerous given the fact that they're going, you know, full speed ahead with this effort that again, was sparked off by Donald Trump saying out loud that he was entitled to five seats in Texas and getting it done. And so in light of that, that should be all the reason that you actually fight fire with fire and not just completely surrender all of your power here to a Republican Party that's lawless in theory. But also while we're watching ICE agents, you know, this rogue secret police agency shoot people while we're watching the President of the United States, completely unencumbered, unburdened by his own party, try and invade sovereign countries, NATO allies, if that's not the kick in the ass to go ahead and, and try and take some power back, I don't know what is.
- [28:00]
Governor Wes Moore
And I'm telling, in this moment, I refuse to be meek and I refuse to be weak when we are watching this assault that is taking place on all of our communities. You know, and everything that you mentioned about those individual districts, this redistricting process that Donald Trump has inspired and that Donald Trump and J.D. vance are leading. There's another thing, too. It's the Voting Rights Act. The Voting Rights act is going to fundamentally be the biggest point of political redlining that this country has seen in its history, where black leadership is being targeted. And so when I think about this, in this moment, I stand here as the nation's only black governor. I stand, there's only the third African American ever elected governor in the history of the United States. And I stand here as someone who understands the power of our voice, the power of this moment. And when we're watching everything taking place in our neighborhoods, that you've just correctly laid out how we're watching a, an administration who's using the Constitution like it's a suggestion box, there is no way my response in this moment, my responsibility to our communities, to our state, to our ancestors, is going to be to sit in our hands and watch this happen. It cannot happen on our watch.
- [29:14]
Brian Tyler Cohen
In terms of legal scrutiny, that's obviously an ever present concern. I think Republicans have tried six times right now to undermine the California map. They've lost every single time. They're at their last ditch effort trying to elevate some doomed case up to the Supreme Court. What are your thoughts in terms of this map? With withstanding any scrutiny, legal scrutiny by.
- [29:40]
Governor Wes Moore
Republicans, this map stands on, on solid legal ground. It was something that was fundamental in the process. It was something that was fundamental with the redistricting commission. And we should remind people that not only was this a bipartisan commission that was pulled together, one of the members of the commission is the former Attorney General.
- [30:00]
Adam Klassfeld
Right.
- [30:00]
Governor Wes Moore
This process has all been done with and in conjunction with legal experts, with some of the best legal minds both in the state of Maryland and around the country. And so we know that any, any argument that somehow this will inevitably fall or that you will have them come back and come back with new maps and other maps and we'll lose seats. It is just, it's, it's scare tactics, it's fear mongering. There is no basis to it. We know that what was pulled together by the commission, it stands on legal grounds. And that is, that is why we believe that they should also move forward on this. Maryland has both the authority and the responsibility to be able to move on this.
- [30:39]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So we have seen numerous instances where this administration watches Democrats fight fire with fire, watches Democrats fight back, and inevitably retaliates. And Trump will retaliate with whatever tools he has at his disposal. And right now, the favored tool at his disposal is obviously this, this rogue ICE agency. Do you have any concerns that Trump is going to deploy ICE into, into Baltimore, for example, as a way to retaliate against what's happening here in Maryland.
- [31:08]
Governor Wes Moore
I will never flinch when it comes to defending my people, ever. And I think that the President of the United States has seen that and knows that. And everybody who has ever interacted with me sees that and knows that. I will never flinch when it comes to Fighting for my people and our state will not flinch inside this moment. And for people who have a fear of what Donald Trump could do to the state of Maryland, I just want to remind them about what he's already done. I want to remind him, in the past year that we've seen out 25,000 Marylanders who are federal workers have been fired by the Trump Vance administration, which, by the way, is a higher number than any other state in the entire country. I just want to remind people that that not a single state that did not vote for Donald Trump has gotten a dollar in federal disaster relief. And that includes my people out in the state of Maryland, in Western Maryland, who had historic floods and have not seen a dollar in federal disaster relief. For people who think that, no, oh, he. He'll be able to come after us. What about the fact that he tried to pull away food from people to use it as a negotiation tool?
- [32:13]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [32:14]
Governor Wes Moore
And we actually had to tap into our Fiscal Responsibility Fund, which is a fund that was built out with capital gains taxes, and to say, I'm going to deploy $63 million from our fiscal Responsibility Fund to make sure that people's SNAP benefits are not being disrupted, despite the fact that the President of the United States has decided to try to starve people to make a political point.
- [32:34]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [32:34]
Congressman Ro Khanna
So.
- [32:34]
Governor Wes Moore
So I just. I do not understand the argument of. Of. Oh, but what if he comes after us? He already is, guys.
- [32:41]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [32:41]
Governor Wes Moore
Our job now is to fight back.
- [32:43]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Perfectly put. Well, look, there are not that many Democratic governors who've actually seen this thing through to fruition. So I want to thank you on of myself and everybody watching who has paid particularly close attention to this issue for stepping up and making this happen and actually fighting fire with fire and ushering in what I hope will be this new Democratic era of meeting the moment with the urgency that it deserves. So thank you for your leadership on this issue, for making this happen. And on a slightly different note, I also have to thank you for one more thing. And I know that you know what I'm talking about here. So, going to be a great season with Coach Harbaugh next year. So just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for giving us at least one gift from the Baltimore Ravens to our. To our hapless New York Giants.
- [33:31]
Governor Wes Moore
Well, and listen, I love Coach. Hopefully he can bring, you know, something to you that he wasn't going to be able to bring to us. And listen, every. I have mad respect for Coach Harbaugh. I mean, every NFL coach would dream of having a career like John Harbaugh had. Right. I just know that in this window, we have one of the most unique talents in NFL history under center. That window for Lamar Jackson is a three to five year window. We had to make an adjustment and make a move to make sure that in that window, we need a ring. And so I'm happy for y', all, but I'm, but I'm also hoping, hoping and hoping that we don't have to see Harbaugh in the Super Bowl.
- [34:14]
Brian Tyler Cohen
That's right. All right. Well, Gov, thanks so much for. I appreciate it.
- [34:18]
Governor Wes Moore
Thanks, man.
- [34:22]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I'm joined now by All Rise News, Adam Klassfeld. Adam, we have a rare concession of defeat by the Trump administration, specifically his doj. Can you explain what just happened out of the mouth of Pam Bondi?
- [34:34]
Adam Klassfeld
Pam Bondi has announced that Lindsey Halligan, the former masquerading U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, is out. That this follows a federal judge's ruling that Halligan, remember, is the same person who brought the failed cases against James Comey and Letitia James and was brought on to the Eastern District of Virginia specifically for that purpose. After fighting tooth and nail to keep a first time unqualified prosecutor in that position, they finally bit the bullet. They, they, they blinked and she is out.
- [35:13]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Why would the Trump administration do this? This is an administration that has staked so much of its credibility on this idea that they're never going to accept defeat, certainly never going to concede defeat. And so in this instance, why was it so important to them to say, you know what the court says that Lindsey Halligan was improperly appointed. So we're going to just kind of lay down our arms and take her out of this position.
- [35:35]
Donald Trump
Position?
- [35:37]
Adam Klassfeld
Well, it's the laws of gravity, Brian, because what we've seen throughout Trump's second term is that when the courts stand up to a bully, the bully folds. And we've seen that in the case of Kilmar Bregue Garcia, for example, Kilmar Garcia, it took five court orders to get him out of an El Salvador prison. They said that he would never, ever step foot on US Soil after they brought him to US Soil, they had him. After he's in criminal detention, he wins pretrial release. After he wins pretrial release, they put him in immigration detention. And after all of this noise saying that we're going to, that the courts cannot control this, you cannot order us to let him be on U.S. soil. He's currently awaiting trial in U.S. oil. And why Lindsay Halligan, why give up the ghost in that fight now? They ran out of options. Her temporary tenure ran to a close. It's supposed to be 120 day interim tenure. Even if she were legitimately appointed, which she was not, there was a binding court order disqualifying her. They tried an interpretation of that order that would allow her to remain in that office after her her humiliating defeats for the entire purpose that she's there to prosecute two of Trump's enemies. And after that fails, and after a judge warns not only Halligan, but Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche that they can all face professional discipline if they all continue to insist that she is acting as a U.S. attorney when she is not legally allowed to serve on that basis, that's when they give up the ghost. Because they ran out of options. Gravity caught up to them. They had to fold.
- [37:34]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Do you think that there was any sense from Lindsey Halligan herself that imperiling her own law license might not be worth just this fool's errand of continuing to serve in this position where all of her prosecutions would get swatted down anyway? I mean, the reality is we know that no judges were buying anything with her name signed on it. And so it was symbolic as it was. But now she was dealing with the increasing threat of her own law license for the rest of her life getting taken away. And that's her livelihood.
- [38:10]
Adam Klassfeld
I'm sure that she knew if she continued in that position, she faced a virtual certainty of a referral for disciplinary proceedings because a federal judge told her that that day and on the same day, just hours before that ruling, when a federal judge said, if you persist in masquerading. I'm using his language now, masquerading in this charade that you are a U.S. attorney, that you will be referred for possible discipline, that he will initiate disciplinary proceedings, that that happened today and hours before then, the chief judge of the district posted a job listing for her replacement. So I think that the double whammy of that, the writing couldn't have been more clearly spelled on the wall, and Pam Bondi gave her a really lofty send off about the wonderful job she did in that district in 120 days when she blew their two most high profile cases, humiliated herself in court again and again, didn't know basic grand jury procedure to the extent that she let most of the grand jury out of the room before they can attest to the actual indictment, their votes on the indictment, it's humiliating defeat after humiliating defeat followed by certain danger.
- [39:34]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So I want to talk about whoever is foolish enough to take over her position, or we know that that position was filled solely because Lindsey Halligan would present herself as some lackey perfectly willing to kowtow to Pam Bondi and Donald Trump and try to engage in these vindictive prosecutions. There is a lot of risk for a prosecutor to engage in this stuff, knowing full well that even if they were appointed properly, which she was not, that they would face almost certain defeat. Because the case for vindictive prosecution against Letitia James and James Comey and on and on and on is so strong. And so does that make it less likely that there's gonna be some hack prosecutor who's willing to step up and fill this void, knowing that they're basically just gonna. You know, this is like the equivalent of just putting yourself on the front lines in, like, World War I and expecting to survive. So is it gonna be less likely that there's some prosecutor who's gonna be willing to do that? Or on the flip side, do you think, based on what you've seen from this administration, that there's always some hack prosecutor that's going to be drawn. Drawn in by proximity to power, who's going to be perfectly content to, you know, sacrifice their own livelihood, their own reputation, their own law license, so long as they could spend a few minutes groveling at the feet of dear leader Donald Trump?
- [40:51]
Adam Klassfeld
Moth always loves the flame until it's too late. I mean, let's just look at the history, and it's as old as Trump's first term. You had Michael Cohen, you had, you know, you have Rudy Giuliani, how many people have incinerated their careers?
- [41:08]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I mean, John Eastman, Jenna Ellis, and that's just, you know, that's the attorneys. Then you have Gordon Sondland, Kayleigh McEnany, Marjorie Taylor Greene, Mike Pence, Rex Tillerson. All of these people Trump has thrown under the bus the moment they lose their political usefulness. And these are people who hitch their wagons to the. The Trump train, only to watch themselves fall out of favor with him the moment that they can no longer be of use to him.
- [41:34]
Adam Klassfeld
The thing that I would think, I would advise people to keep a close eye on, especially in light of today's news, and Pam Bondi and, excuse me, Lindsey Halligan's replacement. Look at what the judges of the Eastern District of Virginia do in the coming days, because right now they're trying to fill Lindsey Halligan's position. And the line prosecutors of the Eastern District of Virginia, they could not find a single person in the district to take the cases of J against James Comey and Letitia James. All of them didn't want to touch this with a 10 foot pole. And right now the judges are looking for her replacement. Do they replace her with a qualified person? And if they do that, does Trump fire that person and start the process again? So I think her replacement, you know, maybe we'll see a competent prosecutor in the Eastern District of Virginia with the judges in charge and knowing the actual stable of prosecutors who are not political appointees, but career civil servants who have been there from across multiple administrations. Will the judges have their say? And if so, will Trump try to muck it up?
- [42:54]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So I want you to dig into that a little bit because I'm actually unfamiliar with this process. Is it the judges who choose U.S. attorneys for each respective district and then Trump has to either fire them or leave them in place? Or is it Trump who appoints these US Attorneys and then the judges get to vote on whether or not they want to keep those people in place?
- [43:14]
Adam Klassfeld
So the most US Attorneys are appointed by the President of the United States, but they need to have the advice and consent of the Senate, something that Trump could never get for Lindsey Halligan and the other US Attorneys who have been disqualified. Now, Trump likes to complain and claim that, oh, he can't get the blue slip in blue states like Virginia, that it's not Democratic senators who are holding this up. But let's get real. In Trump's first term, it was never a problem to get bipartisan support across the Senate for qualified candidates, because in other administrations, we saw US Attorneys as people who would follow the law and not be political hatchetmen. Trump's real complaint, the reason why the advice and consent of the Senate is so hard for him, is because he is trying to to appoint the likes of Lindsey Halligan, his former attorney, his former White House aide who has no prosecutorial experience, people who would not get support from the Senate. And so why are the judges stepping in? Because that is essentially the reserve manner in which you can appoint a U.S. attorney. If the interim appointment fails, that, you know, the interim appointment supposed to last. It's interim for a reason. It's supposed to last 120 days. And at, at which time either that candidate gets the approval of the judges of the district or the advice and consent of the Senate. If neither happens, then the judges can decide, the judges can appoint someone. But that is, we're only at this stage because Trump has failed to put in qualified people in offices that he isn't where he's installing people to be his hatchet men and women.
- [45:14]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Adam, you know that if the Trump administration had to swallow this loss, that they're going to fume about it. They're going to be irate about the fact that Lindsey Halligan wasn't allowed to continue in her role. And it's not like the Trump administration to just say, oh, well, them's the rules and so we'll just have to abide by them and hopefully the next time it works out better. These are people for whom if the rules don't work, then you change the rules, you obliterate the rules, you flip the rules on their head and you make up your own rules. And so as we proceed into this process, recognizing the importance that the Eastern District of Virginia has, especially as it relates to these vindictive prosecutions that Trump wants to engage in in, do you presume that Pam Bondi and Trump will just kind of cross their fingers and hope that it all works out well next time? Or do you think that we're going to see some upending of the rules here and and them try and shoehorn in some prosecutor in some other way, even if they can't get what they want through regular course of order?
- [46:13]
Adam Klassfeld
I think that they're going to try some shenanigans. But I also talk about the law that I mentioned earlier, the law of gravity there. There they have tried their bag of tricks, tried to a large extent to go on the attack against the judge for whose order led to the ouster of Lindsey Halligan, basically writing a legal brief that went on the full attack against him, said that he was leading an inquisition, said that he made rudimentary and elementary errors in the law. As a matter of fact, in the ruling that had warned Halligan about disciplinary proceedings being opened up against her if she kept masquerading as a U.S. attorney, he had mentioned that this legal brief, which was co signed by Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche, this legal brief he said, was more fitting for a cable news talk show that was so full of vitriol, in his words, that it's not something that he expects from litigants in his courtroom, let alone the Department of Justice. So to answer your question, Brian, do I think that Todd Blanche and Pam Bondi are going to see the error of their ways? No. But they are seeing that their options are getting increasingly limited in this particular fight.
- [47:42]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Well, look, we'll take the good news where we can get it. And more good news is that Adam covers all of this stuff on his newsletter All Rise News. So I'm gonna put the link to All Rise News right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. If you wanna hear more from him, stay up to date on the most breaking legal news as it breaks. I highly recommend that you subscribe to All Rise News. Again, that link is right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. Adam, as always, thanks for the time.
- [48:06]
Adam Klassfeld
Thanks Ryan. Always a pleasure.
- [48:09]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Thanks again to Ro Khanna, Wes Moore and Adam Klassfeld. That's it for this episode. Talk to you this weekend. You've been listening to no Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graeber, music by Wellesley, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicoterra. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me, Brian Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels. Or you can go to briantylercohen.com to learn more.
- [48:40]
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