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- [00:01]
Brian Tyler Cohen
In a world where business owners everywhere
- [00:04]
Hakeem Jeffries
are burning out, I just can't do it anymore.
- [00:07]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And are losing their identities to AI,
- [00:10]
Mark Elias
who even am I?
- [00:11]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Only one website builder can save humanity from generic websites. It's here. It's really here.
- [00:18]
Hakeem Jeffries
WIX Harmony where AI meets hands on control.
- [00:22]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So you can build the website you want exactly the way you want. Try it for free@wix.com Harmony Democrats finished the Republicans redistricting fight with a big win in Virginia. And both Hakeem Jeffries and Mark Elias dig into the details of that fight. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen and you're listening to no Lie. So I'm going to read a post from Trump that pretty much sums up nicely the aftermath of the redistricting fight, culminating in Virginia voting in favor of a redrawn map that will likely seed 10 Democrats and one Republican in the congressional delegation. So Trump wrote, a rigged election took place last night in the great Commonwealth of Virginia. All day long Republicans were winning. The spirit was unbelievable until the very end when of course there was a massive mail in ballot drop. Where have I heard that before? And the Democrats eked out another crooked victory. Now I have some thoughts here. As somebody who has spent a lot of time advocating for redistricting, I have long been an advocate for the dissolution of the independent redistricting commissions in California and New York, the big Democratic weapons given the fact that Republicans are wielding Texas and Florida as their own weapons and they of course have no independent redistricting commissions. I hosted a live Stream for Prop 50 in California. We raised a million dollars toward that effort. Hosted another live stream for Virginia last week. You will not find a bigger champion for fighting fire with fire than me. So with that said, here are my thoughts. First of all, I cannot tell you the extent to which I am unmoved by Republicans bitching and moaning about redrawing the maps when it was Trump who said this last summer when you told Jeremy and we have an opportunity in
- [01:57]
Hakeem Jeffries
Texas to pick up five seats.
- [01:59]
Mike Johnson
We have a really good governor and
- [02:00]
Brian Tyler Cohen
we have good people in Texas.
- [02:02]
Mark Elias
And I won Texas. I got the highest vote in the
- [02:04]
Hakeem Jeffries
history of Texas, as you probably know.
- [02:07]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And we are entitled to five more seats that he's entitled to those seats. And the hush that fell over the Republican Party, you could not find a single member who spoke out against it. And yet now the Democrats dared fight back. Now that Democrats dared not unilaterally disarm. We're watching a party wide meltdown on the right. Like for example, Mike Johnson.
- [02:30]
Mike Johnson
It's A hyper partisan gerrymandering boondoggle. We fought hard, we raised a ton of money, we did our best. But the Democrats in charge of Virginia hoisted this upon the people. It is still in the courts. We are confident in calling upon the Virginia Supreme Court to do the obvious and right result, and that is to strike this thing down.
- [02:52]
Mark Elias
Why?
- [02:52]
Mike Johnson
Because it was demonstrated again last night. This is a divided state. It's almost 50 50. So a 10 to 1 map does not is not justified in that state. And the people showed it again last night. The fact that it was so close demonstrates and proves exactly what we've been saying from the beginning.
- [03:09]
Brian Tyler Cohen
But here's how you know this line from Trump and Mike Johnson and the rest of the GOP is complete bullshit. A, not one of those people spoke out against Texas gerrymandering their maps. In other words, they're not actually against gerrymandering, they're just against Democrats using it. When it's Republicans doing it, they're fine with it. No fainting spells, no pearl clutching. They love to throw punches, but when you punch back, they lose their collective minds. But B, and more importantly, they could outlaw partisan gerrymandering today if they wanted to. Republicans have full control of government. They've got the House, the Senate, the White House. If they were truly against the scourge of gerrymandering, this race to the bottom, as they've been calling it now, then do something about it. Remember, Democrats tried to pass the Freedom to vote act in 2021, which included a ban on partisan gerrymandering nationwide. Guess how many Republicans voted for it? Zero. Not one. The best time to have passed that bill was five years ago. The second best time is right now. Again, they're not against gerrymandering. They just don't like when their opposition can return the punch. They want unilateral disarmament from the Democrats. And they don't know how to react when the response by the left isn't just a strongly worded letter. But I think what's especially instructive here is the reaction by Trump saying, not that the election was just unfair, that it was rigged, that there was a massive ballot drop. Same bullshit that we heard a hundred times in the aftermath of 2020. But it's instructive because as we head into midterms, it's clear that Trump's priority right now is using bogus rigged election claims as a pretext to actually try and rig the next election. He's doing it right now by seizing ballots in Fulton County. Georgia, in Arizona, and just days ago in Detroit, he tried to pass an executive order banning mail in ballots, pushing for Republicans to nuke the filibuster to pass the Safe America act, which would in part force the states to hand over voter data to the federal government. And if you're the federal government looking to suppress certain votes, having pertinent info like voter affiliation is certainly helpful. It would also mandate certain documents, like a passport that would be required to register to vote. And guess who's in charge of issuing passports? The federal government. So these election interference claims are only growing louder and louder on the right. And they will continue to grow louder as it becomes clear that Trump and Republicans have no legitimate path to victory. And I think that's honestly the saddest part of all of this. I mean, think about it. If they gave even a fraction of the attention that they're giving to crying fraud about every election they lose to actually governing with their majority, they wouldn't need to engage in election subversion. But they just can't do it. They cannot bring themselves to hold true to any of their promises. They can't bear the thought of actually lowering prices or protecting healthcare or reducing inflation or releasing the Epstein files or staying out of war. So instead, they promise these things on the campaign trail. And then when people inevitably get pissed off because they realize they've been conned, Trump and the GOP decide to just rig the game instead. It is the ultimate fuck you to their voters. Lie to get their votes with zero intention of ever delivering, and then lie about nonexistent election fraud as a pretext to undermine the election and just entrench your majority so that you don't actually have to be held accountable by the voters. The reality is that even if you're a Republican voter, even if you're an independent voter, you don't benefit at all by having a political party in power whose priority is only entrenching their own control. Like you benefit when those elected officials know that you still have the power to rein them in if they start to enact an agenda that is completely counter to what they ran on, like the one that they're doing right now. So now is the moment for you all to retain that power. Remember, Republicans are not entitled to your undying support. They don't own you. They work for you, not the other way around. The Virginia referendum does not happen in a vacuum. It is a check on a Republican Party that is completely out of control, even according to their own voters. And when they get backed into a corner. They only get more anti democratic and more dangerous. So we should celebrate the win and simultaneously be cognizant about what's coming in the future because we can still stop this slide into autocracy. And that is exactly what Trump and the GOP are afraid of. Next up are my interviews with Hakeem Jeffries and Mark Elias. No Lie is brought to you by Helix. So I was a personal trainer for about a decade before I got into politics and I would tell people every day how to be healthy, how to exercise, how to lift properly, but nothing was more important than rest. It's actually the time off that delivers the most results and that starts with a good night's sleep and that starts with a good mattress. So I have the Helix Midnight Elite. I'm getting uninterrupted seven to eight hours sleep every night, which means I'm completely set up for the next day as opposed to feeling exhausted before I've even hit the halfway point of my day. It is so comfortable and so soft. 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- [08:43]
Hakeem Jeffries
Good to be with you.
- [08:44]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So we obviously had a major victory in Virgin Virginia. This is something that you had worked on for a long time and I want to get into your participation in all of this. But before I do, the map right now as it stands looks to be mostly set except for the state of Florida. And so in light of the results that we've seen in California, in light of the court decision that we saw adding a seat in Utah, in light now of the referendum results in Virginia, what would your message be to Ron DeSantis as they consider engaging in a gerrymander on top of the existing gerrymander that's exactly right.
- [09:21]
Hakeem Jeffries
The map in Florida that already exists was gerrymandered in 2022. And so to the extent they try to take some additional seats in a map that was already gerrymandered, what Ron DeSantis will accomplish is placing additional Republican incumbents in jeopardy. And that's the reason why, Brian, so many Florida Republicans quietly have gone to the White House and have gone to the governor telling him not to go down this road. It was a disaster for them in Texas, where they claim they're going to take five seats away from us. They'll be fortunate in Texas if they get to two or three. And they're going to lose at least one Republican incumbent as a result of the Texas dummy mander. And now Ron DeSantis is considering making the same mistake in Florida.
- [10:17]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Can you talk a little bit more about what you've heard from these other Florida Republicans? Because that's been floating around the zeitgeist a little bit. But obviously we don't have as good insight as I'm sure you do in terms of what these people are saying to the governor.
- [10:30]
Hakeem Jeffries
Well, particularly in light of the continued electoral success that Democrats have had, we've now won elections for 16 consecutive months, starting with an Iowa state Senate race in January of 2025, running all the way through what just happened in Wisconsin, where we won a state supreme court race by 20 points in the state that Donald Trump had just won in November of 2024. And of course, we've won special elections in Texas in January of this year where we overperformed by 31 points. And then we won a special election in Louisiana in a House race.
- [11:13]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Both of these not exactly liberal bastions, right?
- [11:15]
Hakeem Jeffries
No doubt about it. Conservative suburban Texas and then rural Louisiana. Yeah, the home state of Mike Johnson and Steve Scalise, where Donald Trump had won that district in 2024, I believe by 13 points. The Democratic candidate won it by 24. That was a 37 point over performance that happened in February. And then in Florida, of course, we flipped the district in Palm beach that is represented by Donald now represent that Donald Trump lives in in terms of Mar a Lago that is now represented by a Democrat. We also, of course, flipped the Miami mayorship for the first time in 30 years by 20 points. That was in December. And so as all of these wins stack up, Florida Republicans and Republicans across the country are getting nervous because they know that Donald Trump has been a failure. Republicans in Congress have been a failure. They have nothing positive to run on. They've now gotten us into this reckless and costly war of choice. And the last thing they need is to lose Republicans in their districts, which will happen if they try to gerrymander the map.
- [12:36]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Well, you know, in response to basically your warning to Ron DeSantis, in light of the Virginia results, DeSantis had come out today and basically offered up some ad hominem attacks against you. Do you think that this is him in an actual confident state, or is this just him posturing? Because he knows he's in a shitty position right now?
- [12:55]
Hakeem Jeffries
Yeah, I think it's him posturing. And look, Ron DeSantis is a failed public servant, a failed governor, and a failed candidate for president. He's reeling right now. He's underwater in his own state. He's got no credibility. He's struggling. His presidential ambitions are done, finished. Right. And he knows this. At this point. He was groveling to try to become a cabinet secretary. Donald Trump shut him down.
- [13:22]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [13:22]
Hakeem Jeffries
So his whole world is falling apart, and now he's got a civil war going on in his own state, with Republicans warning him that it will be a disaster to go down this road. Because as Democrats, they know we're serious when we say we're gonna go into a state and we're gonna compete heavily and aggressively, we're gonna do it.
- [13:43]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And by the way, that's a change from what we had seen before. And I think this redistricting fight is a good microcosm for exactly that, because I think for a long time, this is something I've been exceedingly critical of, and is the idea that if Democrats are going to fight back, it's going to be in the form of a strongly worded letter. Right. And now we're seeing instances where Democrats are saying, okay, you know what? If you're going to. If you're going to gerrymander these maps to engineer yourselves permanent majorities in the House, if Trump feels like he's entitled to five seats, that it's not going to be unilateral disarmament from the Democrats. They're actually going to fight back. And we saw that in California, we saw that now in Virginia. And of course, there's other offensive opportunities on the table that includes New Jersey, New York, Colorado. You know, we'll see what happens as we get into the next. Into the next midterm cycle or the next general election cycle. But I want to talk about your participation in this, because I don't know that a lot of people know how involved in all of this you were. And in fact, even I wasn't until we had spoken a few months ago. And you are deep in the weeds of making this happen. And to your credit, you're both doing this and not out there taking all of the credit that you should. So I want to give you the opportunity right here to talk a little bit about what this process has been like for you, largely behind the scenes.
- [14:59]
Hakeem Jeffries
Yeah, well, it's been an all hands on deck effort and I'm so thankful that Democrats across the country have stepped up in a phenomenal way. That's the Democrats in Texas, in the state legislature who I went to visit in late July when this was first announced, to talk about how we can support their efforts to push back aggressively. And ultimately they made the decision to go on quorum break, which was an important decision, to leave the state, not to justify any of the foolishness that the Texas governor was trying to do upon being ordered by Donald Trump to do it and to shine a national spotlight on Donald Trump's efforts to rig the midterm election. To me, that was sort of key. And then I had the opportunity to go visit them when they were hanging out in Illinois while the quorum break was underway, just to thank them and continue to encourage them and to make it clear that we would support them all the way through their efforts to push back. That, of course, helped to inspire California responding. Governor Newsom was a tremendous leader in this effort and very early on connected with Governor Newsom talked to the California delegation led by Zoe Lofgren, the Dean, and Pete Aguilar, the caucus chair, and of course, Speaker Emerita Pelosi. The California delegation did a tremendous job of leaning in, working with the governor and working with the state legislative leaders who I also had the opportunity to engage with as we were preparing to execute the California response through Prop 50, which we knew needed to be forceful and decisive, temporary and fast, by the way. And fast. There's no doubt about it. At the same period of time, we knew that. And this has been going on now for 10 months and it's one battle after another all across the country. So we've pushed them back in Texas, forced them into a dummy mander. We won Prop 50 in California. We've picked up a seat in Utah that a Democrat will occupy after the November midterm elections. We stopped them in New Hampshire, stopped them in Indiana, stopped them in Kansas and stopped them in Nebraska. We pushed them back in Ohio, and we're going to hold the three seats in Ohio that they thought they were going to be able to Take away from us, that ain't happening. And one of the ways in which we were able to successfully push them back in Ohio, working with the legislative leaders in the Ohio congressional delegation, is because when they saw we were serious in California and willing to go to the mat, it brought the Ohio Republicans to the negotiating table because they were concerned about a referendum that would have freezed anything that they tried to do. And then, of course, working with Abigail Spamberger, our governor, she's been an amazing leader. Don Scott, the Speaker of the House, the legislative leaders and members of the Virginia General assembly, the Virginia congressional delegation, and all along, President Barack Obama, who's been a forceful advocate for a strong response, and former Attorney General Eric Holder. We've gotten to this point, but we're going to keep our foot on the gas pedal. And we're just in a moment of maximum warfare everywhere, all the time. And the next battlefield is in Florida. And we mean it when we say we're going to go in hard if they tinker with this map and create additional opportunities for us to defeat Republican incumbents.
- [18:57]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Well, I think it's important to note that while we could and should celebrate this victory in Virginia, that obviously this fight will continue, especially in light of the fact that we have the Calais case, section 2 of the Voting Rights act, which is likely to come down any day now, and that will likely gut what's remaining in the Voting Rights act, which means all of these black opportunity districts which mandate black representatives in the Deep south, where there would otherwise be gerrymandered maps, those will likely go away. And that could mean a swing of a dozen, two dozen, maybe even more seats across the country. We also have the prospect in 2030 of the census getting handed down and that taking seats away from traditionally or historically blue states and giving them to red states and what they'll do with them is already clear. And so how does that make you think about the battlefield that we're looking at right now? I mean, I know I had mentioned New Jersey, New York, Colorado. How does it make you look at the rest of the map in light of what's coming down the pike?
- [20:05]
Hakeem Jeffries
Yeah, so we, you know, we're going to continue to press forward, finish the job in 2026, and we're close to being able to do that right now. Republicans are down in the redistricting war that they started, anywhere between three and five seats. And the DeSantis dummy mander is not going to help them out in Florida if they go down this road. Yeah, we got to finish the job in 2026. But as you mentioned, look to the 2028 cycle. Because it's our expectation that Republicans will never learn the lesson of engaging in a way that is consistent with free and fair elections. Because they've adopted voter suppression as a strategy. Right, Brian? Because these people have no ideas. They failed. They're a disaster. The economy's falling apart, the war is deeply unpopular. ICE is out of control. They got nothing. And yes, as Democrats, we're going to continue to articulate a vision for making life better for the American people, for driving down the high cost of living, fixing our broken health care system, making sure that everyone in America who works hard and plays by the rules, working class folks, middle class folks, communities of color, everyday Americans, you work hard, you play by the rules, you should be able to live an affordable life, a comfortable life and live the good life. We're going to fight for that as Democrats. At the same period of time, we have to level the playing field and ensure that there are free and fair elections. We're going to do that in the 2026 cycle and then be prepared to respond aggressively in advance of 2028. So that looks like New York and New Jersey and Colorado and Washington at minimum. And we're in the process of engaging with the governors and the legislative leaders in those states to set the possibility of changes in motion. So whatever the Supreme Court does, we're going to have the ability to respond and respond decisively.
- [22:05]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Well, I think what's important there is that all the while, like while this happens, Republicans are suddenly finding their conscience and denigrating the race to the bottom that is gerrymandering. Do you have a message to these Republicans in terms of if they want to offer up national legislation to ban partisan gerrymandering nationwide, how amenable you would be to that? In very much the same way that we had every single Democrat vote for the Freedom to Vote act back in 2021. That in part would have banned partisan gerrymandering. And you had not a single Republican who voted in fav.
- [22:40]
Hakeem Jeffries
Yeah. The first thing that comes to mind is when my grandmother used to tell me, which is be careful what you wish for because you just might get it. And they started this redistricting war. We are finishing it at the same period of time. We believe, of course, that there should be one national standard.
- [22:57]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [22:58]
Hakeem Jeffries
And we're committed to working on that, that partisan gerrymandering and mid decade gerrymandering should be prohibited in every state, not just blue states, in every state. And so that means we are committed to continuing to move the legislation forward that we've previously advanced that didn't get a single Republican member to support, but that perhaps they see the light of day now moving forward, having been pummeled in this fight that they started. And, and we've had at least a handful of Republicans or former Republicans turned independents like Kevin Kiley, suggesting a willingness to now support that legislation. He, of course, is on his way out.
- [23:45]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Right. He can do that as a private citizen now.
- [23:47]
Hakeem Jeffries
He can do that as a private citizen. It would have been nice for him to speak up while his party was actually trying to start this war that they thought they were going to win.
- [23:56]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Right. I mean, that's the ultimate irony is that all of these people who are clutching their pearls and having fainting spells right now didn't have a word to say when Donald Trump was sparking this movement off in Tex. And Greg Abbott decided to pick up the ball where Trump left off and engage in this whole process in the first place.
- [24:11]
Hakeem Jeffries
It's incredible to me that Donald Trump himself, apparently at the Virginia rally where he was urging his MAGA supporters to vote no, said, gerrymandering is bad, bro. You started this and you only think it's bad right now when you're on the wrong side of our efforts to fight back.
- [24:30]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Well, to that end, Donald Trump actually took to truth social today and wrote a rigged election took place last in the great Commonwealth of Virginia. All day long, Republicans were winning. The spirit was unbelievable until the very end when of course, there was a massive mail in ballot drop. Where have I heard that before? And he goes on to spew out a few more conspiracy theories. But I actually think that this is instructive because it kind of gives us a preview into what Trump's defense here is going to be. He's not going to be leaning in to try and win votes by virtue of how he and his party, which has full control of government govern. They're looking to just cry foul every time there's an election that they lose. But the way that they've been able to weaponize the positions of power that they hold right now are actually pretty dangerous because, you know, you have Republicans across the country who are now seizing ballots. We saw that happen in Fulton County, Georgia. We saw that happen in Arizona. We just saw it happen this past weekend in Detroit. Meanwhile, you have Trump signing an executive order that would ban prohibit mail in ballots nationwide, even though it's something that's secure enough for him himself to use. And then finally, you have him leaning on the Republicans to nuke the filibuster so that they could pass the Save America act, which would do a ton of damage, but in part put the onus on people to have a passport to register to vote. Well, who's in charge of issuing passports? It's Donald Trump's federal government. So what does this tell you more broadly, this post that Donald Trump made about the weapons that he's preparing to use as we head toward midterms?
- [26:01]
Hakeem Jeffries
Well, the so called Save America act is a classic example of where Donald Trump's mindset is at. He said that passing this voter suppression legislation is more important than housing or lowering the high cost of living. Explicitly has said that, of course, Donald Trump believes that the affordability crisis is a hoax. So we are.
- [26:20]
Brian Tyler Cohen
The affordability crisis that he ran and won on, by the way.
- [26:23]
Hakeem Jeffries
That's exactly right, because for this guy, it was all about trying to seize power. And he lied his way back into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, promised to lower costs on day one, and of course, costs are skyrocketing out of control, including gas prices, as a result of his reckless war of choice. But I think it does highlight for me the fact that we are operating under the assumption that Donald Trump is going to do everything he can to prevent the midterm elections from being free and fair. And voter suppression is their strategy. And we've embarked on an effort that I believe will be the largest voter protection effort in the history of modern day America. And that's going to involve House Democrats, Senate Democrats, the Democratic Governors association, the dnc, the Democratic Attorney General's association, the Democratic Secretary of State association, the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee. Those are the state legislators working with the civil rights groups, organized labor, good government groups, civil liberties groups, democracy protection groups, and the faith community. And those efforts have been underway now for months in terms of planning. And we'll continue to intensify the public engagement over the next few months as we get inside of the six month countdown to the November general midterm election.
- [28:00]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Do you have confidence, though, given. Given the ease with which they can deploy the tools at their disposal and the ease with which Trump has deployed these tools in the past? I mean, hell, we're talking about a guy who literally incited an insurrection at the US Capitol. This is not someone who's gonna be precious about when he decides to wield his power. I mean, this is somebody who's using the federal government to prosecute political enemies, Judges, Democratic members of Congress, Democratic senators. I mean, the sky's the limit. Do you have confidence that given the opposition that he's mounting and the tools that he has at his disposal, that we will have enough tools on our end to protect our free and fair elections?
- [28:45]
Hakeem Jeffries
Yeah, it's an important question. And we're systematically going after all of the ways in which he is going to try to undermine the ability for the American people to be the ones to make the decision as to who's in the majority in the next Congress, as opposed to Donald Trump trying to make that decision for them by rigging the midterm election. So we had to crush his gerrymandering scheme, and we're on our way to doing just that. We needed to stop his ability to deploy the National Guard. Donald Trump, if you recall, throughout much of last year, federalized the National Guard. And we believe that that was part of his effort, a trial run to be able to unleash troops in cities, towns, counties and municipalities in advance of the midterm elections to try to intimidate people from showing up. And so we immediately sued the hell out of him, working, of course, in partnership with our Democratic governors, Governor of California, governor of Illinois and the governor of Oregon. That case went all the way up to the Supreme Court. And in December, in a 6, 3 decision with Conservative justices like Justice Roberts, Justice Amy Comey Barrett and one other Republican, Justice Gorsuch, said no to the Trump administration and made clear that he does not have the power to federalize the National Guard over the objection of these governors. And Donald Trump was forced to withdraw these National Guard troops. And so we've taken that ability away from him. Now we're fighting the battle as it relates to ice. And one of the demands that we've put on the table, the reason why DHS has not been funded by Republicans up until this point, we want to fund the other parts of DHS that don't involve ICE and the cbp violent mass deportation machine that Trump has unleashed on law abiding immigrant communities and American citizens, in some cases getting them killed, as we saw horrifically in Minnesota. We've put on the table that ICE cannot conduct itself in sensitive locations in terms of operations and that we've defined as houses of worship, schools, hospitals and polling sites. Yeah, and we're going to continue to push for that because we want to remove the ability of this president to deploy ICE to intimidate communities across the country.
- [31:32]
Brian Tyler Cohen
All right, well, we will leave it there later. Jeffries, thank you so much for taking the time.
- [31:35]
Hakeem Jeffries
Thank you much.
- [31:38]
Brian Tyler Cohen
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- [33:19]
Mark Elias
Yeah, Brian, this is fantastic news. As a citizen of the Commonwealth of Virginia, I am pleased to announce that the redistricting measure that was on the ballot, it passed. So Virginians are going to have a new map in time for 2026. It's going to mean four more Democratic seats as we roll forward into the midterms.
- [33:40]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I don't think that this will happen, but I want to ask what happens in the event that Republicans use their one last option here, which is to appeal up to the Virginia Supreme Court. Can you talk about the options that are on the table?
- [33:53]
Mark Elias
Yeah. So look, my law firm and I, we are still in court and we are like full speed ahead in making sure that this result sticks. The Republicans have a series of lawsuits. I wish it was just one lawsuit. They've got a whole bunch of lawsuits that they filed that are in various stages of here and there, to try to block it in the first instance, and when that failed, to try to now undo it. But here's the thing. You know, the courts in Virginia, like every place else, are going to look at these results and ask themselves, number one, what is the law? What is the Constitution say? And this is the process for changing the Constitution in Virginia. So I think, just on the merits, there's not really anything to what the Republicans are claiming. But then the second thing is, you know, they're going to look at the results and they're going to say, are we really going to, after a vote, after the people of the state of Virginia came out and voted in overwhelming numbers to adopt this, are we really now going to reverse it? And the answer to that is no. So, yes, there is still important cleanup work to be done. There is still important legal work to be done tomorrow morning in canvas locations in counties all throughout the Commonwealth. People at my law firm and others will be out making sure that there is no mischief going on there. We'll obviously run through the tape in these court cases. But, Brian, it is a night that we can celebrate. Great news for democracy, Great news for Democrats. A big night for Hakeem Jeffries and the effort to push this through. Abigail Spanberger, the Democratic governor, they got a lot of criticism, but in the end, like Gavin Newsom, they pulled it off.
- [35:33]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And I wanna note that, again, this stuff wouldn't happen if we didn't have fighters like you and your team who were litigating this stuff in the court. The political stuff notwithstanding, we need lawyers who are actually gonna be fighters. You and your team are the peak among them. So a small step that everybody watching right now can take to support that work, to help elevate Mark's voice, Mark's profile, and to support the work that they do in the courts is to subscribe to democracy docket, which, by the way, already released their coverage of what we're seeing right now happen in Virginia. So whether you're looking to support the work that they do in the media space or the work that they do in the courts, the best way that you can show that support is to go ahead and subscribe. So I'm gonna put that link right here on the screen. And also in the post description of this video, Mark, I have heard all of the protests from Republicans online who claim that, okay, now we have a likely 101 map coming in Virginia, and Virginia is closer than that map would suggest. And so what would your response be to those people who are suddenly finding their voice when it comes to partisan gerrymanders, only as it relates to Virginia.
- [36:40]
Mark Elias
Look, if Republicans want to do away with partisan gerrymandering, they can support the legislation that Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer and the Democrats in Congress have introduced to ban partisan gerrymandering. Like, we didn't hear any complaints from the Republicans when Donald Trump was forcing Texas to do this. We didn't hear any complaint from Republicans when they were redrawing maps in Kansas City to do away with, to basically break that city into a thousand little people. Visas. There are three different visas. We didn't hear any of their concerns when they were gerrymandering in North Carolina. Like, the only time we've heard any Republicans express concern about partisan gerrymandering was in California and then in Virginia, which, by the way, are the two states where it was actually. The people, the people in both of those states actually voted on it. So it's not like these were backroom map deals, you know, of politicians. You know, I went out and I voted on Saturday. I voted early and I voted yes, and a majority of Virginians voted yes. I know when it was in California, you were a big part of leading that effort. I hope everybody supports your work by subscribing to this channel and staying informed on everything that's going on in, in the world of politics and law and culture. But, but, Brian, the Republicans, they didn't have boo to say about any of those states. And guess what? Now as Ron DeSantis looks at what he's going to do in Florida, where, where are those voices? Have you heard anything from Kevin Kiley complaining about what, what's going on in, what's going on in Florida? Have you heard anything from the congressional delegation, the Republican congressional delegation of Virginia about what's going on, what may go on in Florida? No. So it's all a bunch of hypocrisy. If they want to ban all partisan gerrymandering, they're going to have partners with Democrats do it. But it's not going to be that. We only stand down in states that Democrats control. Those days are over. Let me just tell you something. If you think the days of Democrats playing by one sets of rules and Republicans playing by another, you're kidding yourself.
- [38:44]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, and I think that's the perfect point here, is Republicans had nothing to say when it was just the Republicans gerrymandering the map because Donald Trump came out and broadcast that he felt he was entitled to five more seats in Texas. That was no problem. What their problem is is not with the fact that Democrats are redrawing these maps. It's that Democrats aren't unilaterally disarming. And by the way, I almost get why Republicans would just assume that this was baked in. And that's because Democrats have largely hewed to this idea that, okay, we can just defer to, you know, good governance and our institutions and norms, and that would be how we kind of operate while the Republicans run roughshod over democracy as a whole. And I'm glad to see that there are finally Democrats who are in office right now who recognize the urgency of the moment that we're in. Democrats like Gavin Newsom, who saw this thing through to the end, by the way, before it was, you know, the politically sexy thing to do. Saw this thing through to the end in a state that, where there was a million reasons to have not done it then for Abigail Spanberger and State Senator Lucas to have done the same thing along with the other Democrats in Virginia to have seen this thing through to the end. And so I guess my question here is what would your message be to other Democrats across the country in states that are even bluer than Virginia? And Virginia's. No, you know, Virginia's not the bluest state in the country by any stretch of the imagination. And so what would your message be to these Democrats in New Jersey, in New York, in all of these other states like Colorado, where we have a little bit more upside because they're even bluer, but we haven't yet taken full advantage of the maps to fight fire with fire.
- [40:27]
Mark Elias
Now, look, the Republicans are not gonna back away from their strategy. So Democrats can't let up. Now. There's no unilateral disarmament in this world. World. We need to be as aggressive on our side as they are ruthless on their side. And by the way, I want to give a plug for people who have not already done so. To pre order Brian's book. Brian actually talks about the fact that when Democrats take power at the federal level, when they take power at the federal level, we need to play by the same set of rules that Republicans have now. That doesn't mean graft, that doesn't mean corruption. That doesn't mean illegality. It doesn't mean any of that. But what it does mean is using the levers of power to do the bidding of the American public rather than the bidding of the Trump family and his and his friends. So please join me right now in pre ordering that book. I've not only pre ordered ordered it. I have written the forward for it. The first time I've ever written a forward for a book because this one's so important for you to pre order. And look, my preference is you always get from an independent bookseller, but if you don't, you got my permission to go get it from Amazon or wherever else. Most important thing is you pre order it.
- [41:33]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And I'm gonna put the link to pre order that book, which is called the Day after, right here on the screen. And also in the post description of this video. It's a huge help to pre order the book. And you can also see on that same landing page the dates for the book tour. So if you live in D.C. or New York or Chicago, San Francisco or Los Angeles, please grab a ticket and come see me talk in person.
- [41:54]
Mark Elias
And if you're in dc, I'll be there with Brian. We'll be there. You know, Brian is a big star, so you'll, you'll want to, you'll want to, you know, hear from him. But I promise you, I'll be there. And so I'll be happy to talk to any of you if you sign up for the one in D.C. and Brian May even invite me to some of the other ones. That's it.
- [42:12]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Okay. But Mark, I want to go back to this question that we had discussed before. And that is a message that you would send to these other Democratic governors, for example, who haven't yet, yet seen the full upside of this strategy play out.
- [42:24]
Mark Elias
Look, it's good policy. It's good politics.
- [42:26]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yep.
- [42:26]
Mark Elias
And we need you to do it. I mean, the fact is, this whole thing has been a calamity for Donald Trump. And what that means is that if you are on the fight side, if you are on the side that Gavin Newsom's on, you're on the side that Abigail Spanberger's on. You're on the side that, frankly, Hakeem Jeffries done a great job, you know, marshaling opposition to what Republicans are doing and also leading the effort here in these states. States. If you're on that side, it is not just that you are going to get better results on policy, but it's really good politics. I mean, Gavin Newsom has shot to the, you know, shot to the moon over, over what he's done. And my prediction is Abigail Spanberger is going to see the same thing right now. You know, people have been on her and criticizing her. But I'll tell you what, no one. But I'll tell you what, there's nothing Americans like More than a winner. And Abigail Spamberger is a winner tonight and Donald Trump is the biggest loser.
- [43:22]
Brian Tyler Cohen
It's also worth noting here the importance of this strategy, especially in light of two things that are coming down the pike, and that is Section two of the Voting Rights Act. That case, the Calais case, we're expecting any day now the Supreme Court to issue a ruling in this case. And it's largely believed that the Supreme Court is going to gut section two of the Voting Rights act, which means that all of these black opportunity districts will be no longer mandated by the Voting Rights Act. And so these Republican led states can redraw their maps and eliminate these black opportunity districts. And the second is that we have the census coming up in 2030 and we're seeing, we're gonna see a lot of population movement from these big blue liberal bastions, these states that Democrats have control in down to the Sun Belt, for example, where Republicans are largely in control. And we've seen the extent to which they're willing to or redraw the maps in their favor. And just like they're doing it right now, they'll do it even more when they have added electoral votes. So can you talk about the fact that this is actually a proactive strategy in light of the fact that we likely do have some bad news coming down the pike?
- [44:27]
Mark Elias
Look, here's the deal. Politics is a game of inches. It's not, you know, a lot of people think that politics is about landslides. Even the landslides in this country are not landslides. You know, it's not like, it's not like you've got people winning by 20 points, 30 points, you know, in competitive elections. And so each one of these seats matters. You know, you look at, you look at what the majority that the Republicans have right now in the House. And you know, depending on the day and who's resigned, you know, it's three seats, it's four seats, maybe it's five seats. But like it's truly seat by seat, hand to hand combat. And so, you know, whether it is, is the fact that Republicans are going to take their next shot in Florida, whether it is that, you know, you have the census coming up, whether it is that if the Supreme Court rules, you know, the wrong way in the Clay case, you could see Republican legislatures in the Deep south gerrymander, you know, black citizens take, you know, dilute their voting power by, by, by, by gerrymandering further or frankly it's Donald Trump seizing ballots or trying to change the rules of who can vote by math. Now, all of these things are critically important because each one of them can be the difference maker between who wins and who loses and who controls Congress and who doesn't, and ultimately who controls the presidency because, of course, the Electoral College is also affected by the census. So, look, you know, my message to you is take the night and celebrate Virginia and then tomorrow recommit yourself to the hard work, because the hard work is still in front of us. Like Donald Trump tomorrow morning will still be in office. Donald Trump tomorrow will still be going after his political opponents using the Department of Justice. Donald Trump tomorrow will still be scheming with governors to try to figure out how to screw you out of your right to vote and in some states, like Florida, how to screw you out of fair districts. So, like, we cannot let up and we cannot assume that because we've had a victory here or they've had a setback there, that we are, you know, we're inevitably going to win the midterm elections. Right now, Republicans are very unpopular, Donald Trump's very unpopular. And, you know, things are lining up well. But there's a lot of hard work that has to take place between now and then. That's the work that I do in the courts. It's the work I try to do in speaking out. It's the work that Brian does in speaking out. And frankly, it's the work he did in writing this book, which is why I recommended it earlier. Because part of the message of that book, look, is that when you gain power, you need to use that power. You need to be prepared to use that power. We can complain all we want about Project 2025 and Donald Trump, but the fact is they came in with a plan to execute an authoritarian vision and that's what they're doing. And Brian in this book is laying out what it is Democrats need to be prepared to do so again. I just ask you to subscribe to it. I'd ask you to sign up for Democracy Doc. And I'd ask you to celebrate for tonight the victory in Virginia.
- [47:27]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Thanks again to Hakeem Jeffries and Mark Elias. That's it for this episode. Talk to you on Sunday. You've been listening to no Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graeber, music by Wellesley and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicoterra. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me Rienteller Cohen on all of my other channels or you can go to briantylercohen.com to learn more.