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- [00:01]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Trump makes one major mistake with his response to the ICE shooting. And I have four interviews. Pete Buttigieg, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry, and Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro all talk about the ICE shooting in Minnesota. And Congressman Dan Goldman discusses legislation that he introduced to limit ice. I'm Brian Tyler Cohen, and you're listening to no Lie. If Trump, along with J.D. vance and Kristi Noem, have made one thing clear, it's that if federal prosecutors have have sole jurisdiction over the ICE shooting in Minneapolis, there will be no justice. In the immediate aftermath of the shooting, even before a fraction of the investigation had begun, Trump logged on to True Social, and he said that the victim, Renee Goode, who is an innocent mother of three, quote, violently, willfully and viciously ran over the ICE officer who is now recovering in the hospital. Now, all of that is completely untrue, like not even a kernel of truth. The same sentiment was then echoed, of course, by Vance and Gnome, all of whom accede to this Trumpian mentality where you can never accept responsibility for anything going wrong, ever. You gotta dig in, pretend you are right 100% of the time, and never accept blame for anything, ever. And that's what's happening here. But here's the problem, because they all felt the need to do this and to do it publicly, because that is the Trump way. Now, the people who Trumps DOJ have to convince that the federal government needs sole jurisdiction over this case have been left twisting in the wind. Like, how do you go into a courtroom and convince a judge that you need to ICE out state prosecutors and give the federal government sole jurisdiction when the federal government was just out on TV and online within 5 minutes pre clearing the killer? You can't. Which yet again, puts federal prosecutors in an impossible position of having to argue on Trump's behalf, while Trump himself undermines them every time he opens his mouth. Now, granted, that won't stop this Justice Department from saying whatever they can to deliver for their God king. So they'll go into court and offer up every excuse in the world for Trump and every assurance in the world that Renee Goode will get a fair and impartial investigation. Because these people have no scruples, they have no shame. Which means it could not be more important that state prosecutors fight to ensure that they get to investigate this crime concurrently, that they not get iced out of this process, that they sue for access to all the evidence. You're gonna hear from Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry in a few minutes. But he reveals that the feds are already blocking state investigators from gaining access to the evidence that they need. That's by design. It's because Trump issued his edict, his conclusion, and now the whole purpose, as far as Pam Bondi's DOJ is concerned, is to absolve the guy, to absolve the ICE agent. That's how this Justice Department works. Trump decides guilt or innocence based solely on political affiliation, and then prosecutors who work for Trump say, seek evidence to support that conclusion. So why is it so important that state prosecutors do a legitimate investigation? Because if there's no legitimate accountability for lawless behavior, then these killings at the hands of this rogue agency won't be the exception. They'll be the rule. We will see more and more and more like consider, too. There have already been 16 ice related shootings.
- [03:14]
Jacob Frey
16.
- [03:15]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And it's not surprising when you consider who the agents are that are being recruited. According to NBC News, Immigration and Customs Enforcement has placed new recruits into its training program before they have completed the agency's vetting process. An unusual sequence of events as it rushes to hire federal immigration officers to carry out President Trump's mass deportation policy. ICE officials only later discovered that some of the recruits failed drug testing, have disqualifying criminal backgrounds, or don't meet the physical or academic requirements to serve. So is it any surprise that these people don't know what the fuck they're doing? There was a video going around this weekend of an ICE agent slipping, ironically enough, on the ICE in Minnesota, and the gun that he was holding fires because his finger was on the trigger. Like, if you were to engineer in a lab, the most dangerous agency, the most rogue lawless agency, you would do exactly what the Trump administration did to orchestrate this iteration of ice. But if they felt unburdened by the law because the DOJ gives them carte blanche to commit crimes with impunity, then what we're seeing right now, I can assure you, will feel quaint. Which puts a big burden on state prosecutors in Minnesota to step up and ensure that these rogue agents know that they are not immune. Both for Renee Goode and her family, and unfortunately, for the next person who will inevitably fall victim to these jackbooted thugs who want to cosplay as soldiers while terrorizing American cities. Next up are my interviews with Pete Buttigieg, Jacob Fry, Josh Shapiro, and Dan Goldman. No lie is brought to you by Huell. So I skip meals way too often. I'll look up and it's 2 o' clock in the afternoon. I never even ate breakfast, which obviously leaves me with no energy. That's where Huel comes in. It's got everything in it. 42 vitamins, minerals, superfoods, antioxidants, electrolytes, fiber, and it is legit delicious. And good news. Huel has launched into Target stores across the country. They have launched their Black Edition Ready to Drink and their Daily Greens Ready to Drink. So you can head over to Target to grab some. Now, there's Huel's Black Edition Ready to Drink. If you are short on time, this is the perfect quick, complete meal. It's got 35 grams of protein, two 27 essential vitamins and minerals, no artificial sweeteners, gluten free and is ready to go and under $5 per meal. Then there's the Daily Greens Ready to Drink, which is a new addition to my routine. I'm drinking the peach and hibiscus right now. It gives me that mandatory pickup around 2 or 3 in the afternoon when I start fading. It was developed by registered nutritionists and dieticians. Again, 42 vitamins, minerals, superfoods and only 25 calories, 4 grams of fiber and only 1 gram of sugar. So if you struggle with a busy schedule, Huel is the perfect solution to get a full meal's worth of nutrition in a ready to go drink. Huel makes healthy eating simple. They also just launched again in Target stores nationwide. Try both products today with 15% off your purchase for new customers with my exclusive code BTC at www.huel.com BTC that's H U E-L.com BTC use my code and fill out the post checkout survey to help support this show. I'm joined now by the former Secretary of Transportation, Pete Buttigieg. Pete, thanks so much for coming on.
- [06:23]
Pete Buttigieg
Yeah, thanks for having me.
- [06:25]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So I wanna start first and foremost with this tragic and unnecessary shooting and killing in Minneapolis. We've obviously all seen the footage, but I think what's especially striking today is the fact that we're seeing a lot of these Trump administration officials, including J.D. vance, including Kristi Noem, basically double down in defense of the ICE agent who committed this atrocity and spread lies. For example, that the woman in the car, Renee Goode, was seeking to run the ICE agent over. Trump himself even said outright that the ICE agent was run over and dragged down the street. And so can I have your reaction to the gaslighting happening at the hands of these administration officials?
- [07:06]
Pete Buttigieg
Yeah. Not only is it of course, horrifying that a woman, an American, a mother, lost her life, but that the federal government is lying about it, that we can See with our own eyes what happened. And also just the idea that she dropped her 6 year old son off at school and then turned around and randomly decided to try to kill a federal agent just doesn't pass the basic sanity test of the things that we're expected to believe.
- [07:33]
Brian Tyler Cohen
What does it say that this administration doesn't feel like it can offer even an ounce of, you know, that even acknowledging objective reality seems like some capitulation to the dangerous communist Marxists on the left, and so they have to engage in this whole farce?
- [07:50]
Pete Buttigieg
Well, the administration doesn't believe that it owes the American people the truth or anything else because they believe they're beyond accountability. But there needs to be accountability over this. Look, Secretary Kristi Noem has not yet faced accountability for the Texans who may have lost their lives in the floods last year because it took her days to authorize search and rescue teams. They lost their lives or may have lost their lives over that. Now, a Minnesota woman lost her life yesterday in an incident that never should have happened. She should be with her family, alive and well. Right now. We have an ICE agent who, by the way, is or should have been trained not to be in front of a vehicle and never to shoot into a moving vehicle. And yet this happened on her watch. The whole point of Homeland Security is to make this country more stable and safe. And it is very clear on this administration's watch that the opposite is what's happening.
- [08:48]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Do you think that the administration derives some benefit from instances like this taking place? Because we've seen that Trump often wants to create some inciting incident that he then uses as a pretext to be able to ramp up or escalate tensions, send in the military, send in the National Guard. He tried to do it in Los Angeles, in Chicago, in Portland, in Washington, D.C. and so now we have basically an uprising delivered on a silver platter. Thanks again to ICE in itself. And so do you think that the administration actually benefits or wants stuff like this to take place so that they can use this as the pretext that they're looking for?
- [09:28]
Pete Buttigieg
If this was about public safety, if this was really about immigration, they would be doing things very differently. It's clear that this president knows that he is better off when Americans are fearful, chaotic, divided, and these ICE deployments and National Guard deployments are part of that. This is not about ICE's actual mission, which is, by the way, an important one of securing the border and enforcing immigration law. This is about making sure that there is an atmosphere of fear and division in this country, an atmosphere that in some ways has been at least beneath the surface and sometimes exploding to the surface for all of the last 10 years, since the Trump era began, when he came down that escalator. And of course, when we are divided, fearful and angry, it is harder to focus on solving problems like the problems he promised to solve, about being able to afford the cost of living in this country. He doesn't want to be explaining why costs have gone up instead of down since he took power. He doesn't want to explain why the economy is getting worse and not better, why it's harder, not easier to get through life, why health care premiums just shot up as of this month. So, of course, it is to his benefit to have these kind of provocative and in the case of yesterday, deadly situations unfolding in our cities.
- [10:50]
Brian Tyler Cohen
What do you think should happen with ice? Because on one hand, I've heard you say that the mission of ICE as it relates to the border is important. On the other hand, you know, we've spoken about the fact that the agents that actually work within ICE are clearly not trained, that ICE is clearly comprised of folks who are not qualified to be doing those jobs, who are not qualified to be handling weapons, certainly not qualified to be engaging with Americans or even these undocumented immigrants. And so there's a little bit of that dichotomy there. What should happen to ice? Is it a salvageable agency?
- [11:25]
Pete Buttigieg
Look, of course, we need to have borders and we need to have laws, and somebody needs to be protecting those borders and enforcing the laws, but this is not that. And what ICE has become, what ICE has been used for, has nothing to do with keeping us safe. And in many cases, including this mother of three, this American mother of three who lost her life yesterday, it's doing the opposite. That's why when you have any part of the federal government that is empowered with the ability to use deadly force, that it has to be accountable, that it has to be transparent, that it has to be lawful. And we don't see evidence of any of that. So it's not about what name you give to the agency that handles immigration law. It's about what they're actually doing. And while most Americans agree and believe that we ought to have and enforce borders and laws, I think most Americans also see that this has gone way, way out of hand, that it is out of control, and that it is now hurting, not helping, public safety in this country.
- [12:26]
Brian Tyler Cohen
When I watch the JD Vance press conference or the Kristin Own press conference, where these people are doubling down on this idea that the victim here, again, who is just a mother driving home from dropping her kid off at school unarmed, not some professional agitator, as Trump claims, that she was part of some deep state cabal, a professional agitator, and that she was attempting to run over this ICE agent and drag him down the street. When I hear that kind of stuff, and the fact that they're gonna, of course, back up the ICE agent who was involved in this shooting, who perpetuated this shooting, this killing, it leaves me with a sense of like, of despair and hopelessness that there even exists any semblance of accountability. And by the way, I think that's by design at the hands of this administration. So I wanna ask, what should be done? What could be done to rectify this so that people don't see this kind of stuff happen and just say, you know what? This is just, this is America now. Whatever the God King decrees is gonna be law, and the rest of us just kind of get screwed.
- [13:35]
Pete Buttigieg
There has to be justice and accountability under the law, and if that's not happening, then the accountability comes to the American people and the political process to replace the leaders who are failing to make this a nation of laws. I get that not everybody is going to study the video frame by frame and notice that the agent is to the left of the car while the wheels of the car are turned to the right. But everybody should get that when your government is lying to you, and especially when your government is lying to you about how it went about killing an American citizen, that that is not just a failure of one person, one officer, or one department. That is a failure of leadership at the highest levels. And it's one more reason why the American people, who already, by and large, do not support this president, need to stand up, speak up, and demand something different.
- [14:30]
Brian Tyler Cohen
What is your message to Trump supporters who believed him when he said, you know, when he said that he was gonna defend law and order, this long standing Republican principle of making sure that people are armed and that the Second Amendment is strong so that we can stand up against government tyranny? This is what government tyranny looks like. So a lot of the things that the Trump administration kind of built its branding on, they are actually executing the things that they once purported to condemn. And so what would your message to Trump supporters be in light of this?
- [15:01]
Pete Buttigieg
My message to Trump supporters is this guy does not deserve your support. You supported him, maybe enthusiastically, maybe reluctantly, because you expected him to make your life better off. But he said he was going to do these things and did the opposite. He said he was going to lower costs. He did the opposite. He said he was going to put forward a plan to make your health care more affordable and better. He did the opposite. He said that America would become a more peaceable and safe place on his watch. That we are seeing instead how he is deliberately stirring up chaos and turning Americans against each other. People may have supported him for any number of reasons, but he is not delivering even on the reasons he offered to his own supporters, let alone what the majority of Americans actually want and believe.
- [15:50]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Well, one of those things that he also promised his supporters was this idea that he was going to focus on an America first agenda, which presumably didn't include taking over the country of Venezuela. And yet that's what we've seen seen take place. And so can I have your reaction to this Bush era redux that we're seeing right now where the no new wars President has engaged in a new foreign intervention in South America expressly to take the oil.
- [16:16]
Pete Buttigieg
We learned this the hard way within my lifetime, that trying to take over another country when there is no need to do that is bad news for the American people. Especially now that he's doubled down and said that we might be running Venezuela for years. What makes anyone think that this White House can run Venezuela when they can't even run the United States? They have failed to deliver the things that Americans need, like more affordable energy bills and health care and groceries. The last thing that we need them to be doing is trying to run another country.
- [16:53]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So something that I've been especially concerned about is if we're gonna engage in imperialism 2.0 and we go into Venezuela, we go into Colombia, Cuba, Greenland, whatever it may be in the Western Hemisphere because we're doing some second iteration of the Monroe Doctrine, the Don Row Doctrine. What does that do when you look at our competitors? A country like China, for example, where they say, okay, now we've got the green light to go into the places that we want to invade, China's obviously looking at Taiwan. Taiwan controls the majority of the world's semiconductors, which is the technology of the future. And so we're basically going into South America so that we can double down on the technology of yesterday on fossil fuels, while basically giving a green light to China to be able to position themselves to own the world in the future.
- [17:45]
Pete Buttigieg
It absolutely frees the hands of countries like China and Russia to pursue aggression in ways that sooner or later will make us worse off here at home. It's also very disturbing in the context of the way they're talking about our allies. Take this talk about Greenland, which is a Danish territory. I served in Afghanistan alongside Danish soldiers. That country actually proportionally, by some ways of counting, gave more in terms of lives to the coalition than any US Ally. And do you really think they're going to be going out of their way for us, looking to the future? And one of the things we saw with Venezuela is a reminder that when he says something that might seem crazy at first, they're prepared to actually follow through on it, which is why, again, we can't just leave it to him. He's told reporters the only constraint that he respects is his own mind, which seems to be deteriorating as we speak. There are other constraints, including Congress. Now is a time when Congressional Republicans ought to stand with Democrats and make it clear that if this president does something like unjustified aggression against a NATO ally, that could be the very definition of an impeachable offense.
- [19:01]
Brian Tyler Cohen
When people hear about the prospect of NATO being dismantled and if the US does opt to, you know, invade Greenland, for example, or try, you know, purchase Greenland, whatever it may be, that. That would effectively be a death knell for, for NATO. If one NATO country starts to invade another NATO country. I don't, I don't think that NATO is, has, has too long of a future after that, but people are gonna hear that and they're gonna, you know, we've learned in, in politics that warning people of some, something that might happen at some untold point in the future, certainly that's never happened. So we have no schema for it isn't really an effective way at moving hearts and minds. And so I'm just curious from, from when people hear about these international affairs and the prospect of a weakened or dismantled NATO, why does that matter? What could that signal moving forward?
- [19:54]
Pete Buttigieg
The important thing about NATO is that it has helped keep us safe here in America. We've got to remember that the last 80 years or so without a major global war is the exception and not the norm. And these institutions and organizations aren't perfect, but they. The fundamental mission of NATO was to establish and secure peace and security for its members. And if we lose that, we've got a whole other set of things to worry about. Americans have enough to worry about right now with power bills the way they are, grocery costs the way they are, health insurance premiums shooting up, housing harder and harder to find and afford. The last thing we need to add to that set of worries is to make wars more likely for us or.
- [20:38]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Anybody else, you know, watching all of this stuff play out, do you think that all of the foreign incursions, the saber rattling against Greenland, the extracting Nicolas Maduro out of Venezuela, engaging in another oil war, do you think that's an effort to distract from Trump's failures at home?
- [20:59]
Pete Buttigieg
It's not unusual. When a president is growing unpopular and their economy is getting weaker in this or a lot of other countries, it's not unusual for them to turn to foreign war as an attempt to divert resources and attention from their failures at home. And it's an example of a pattern that I think we can expect more of over the coming year, which is, on one hand, Donald Trump is growing weaker. Even Republicans are more likely to defy him than they were just a few months ago. But even while he's growing weaker, in fact, because he's growing weaker, he's also growing more dangerous. And I think we can continue to see dangerous, provocative, sometimes deadly decisions precisely because he can see that he is losing his grip on power here at home.
- [21:47]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Pete, what's next for you?
- [21:49]
Pete Buttigieg
I'm going to spend the next year trying to make myself useful for candidates and causes that I believe in. I'm not on the ballot, but I'm going to be traveling the country. I'm going to be taking to the airwaves and making the case for a different kind of politics. And in particular, I'm trying to prepare my party, the Democratic Party, for the same thing that I see a lot of Republicans starting to position themselves for, which is life after Donald Trump. The reality is that he will not be dominating US Politics forever. And the day he leaves the political scene, that isn't the end goal of our politics, it's the beginning. Because that moment, we all have to be asking ourselves, what's next? How do we make sure that we have a politics and a government that actually will serve us well? That is much more complicated than just reversing the damage and going back to the way things looked a few years ago. And so I'm going to be out there making the case for that and, of course, trying to help good leaders get elected.
- [22:44]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Are there any folks that you're keeping a particular eye on right now?
- [22:48]
Pete Buttigieg
Well, you know, in a few days, I'll be in Wisconsin. We're doing a town hall there in the district of Derek Van Orden. He's a Republican congressman who refuses to face his own constituents. And he's drawn a very convincing Democratic challenge from Rebecca Cook. That's one example of a district in a region that I'm watching closely. There are a lot of places that may not be on your obvious list of Democratic or progressive turf, much more purple or red areas where people are thinking for themselves, asking tough questions about how their lives could get better. And, and I think there's a lot of opportunity for leadership to arise in those kinds of places. So that's going to kind of be my specialty in the months ahead.
- [23:28]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And of course I would have to ask as well, in the aftermath of midterms, do you presume that you're going to do any run for office after that?
- [23:34]
Pete Buttigieg
I'm a good ways away from any life, big life decisions or big political decisions. The big decision I made is that I know how to spend 2026, which is helping causes and candidates that I believe in. And trying to prepare our party, my party, for the really serious deep thinking we need to do that goes a lot deeper than the important project of trying to move on from this president.
- [23:59]
Brian Tyler Cohen
We'll leave it there. Secretary Pete, thanks so much for taking the time.
- [24:02]
Pete Buttigieg
Same here. Thanks for having me.
- [24:07]
Brian Tyler Cohen
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- [25:42]
Jacob Frey
Thanks for having me.
- [25:43]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So we've obviously watched the tragedy unfold in your city of Minneapolis. I have to ask, first and foremost, as we watch the Trump administration respond to a lot of what's happened, that it seems like they're doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on defending the Ice Age and even presenting lies such as this idea that the ICE agent was targeted or hit by the victim here or even, as Trump said, dragged under the car. So can I have your reaction, first and foremost to this response by administration officials?
- [26:16]
Jacob Frey
Look, I would totally understand it if they wanted to say, hang on, let's wait for an investigation to commence and for us to get all the facts in a fair and justifiable way. But what makes absolutely no sense to me is to look at a video, see clearly with your own eyes what is happening, and then try to create a different narrative entirely. I mean, they are trying to say that the ICE agent was acting in self defense and that the victim was a domestic terrorist. That could not be further from the truth. Clearly, when you're going through a 1, 2, 3, even 4 point turn, you're backing up and trying to get out of there, leave is the primary goal. Not hit somebody, not use force, not injure an agent or anybody else. The primary goal in my mind seemed to be getting out of there. And you know, if you watch the video, that's what ultimately happens. She leaves and tragically and horrifically was killed in the process.
- [27:26]
Brian Tyler Cohen
There is reporting now that as this process is gonna play out, as the aftermath of this process is gonna play out, that Minnesota investigators are being told that they can't access evidence because the FBI isn't willing to work jointly with them on a probe. So can you confirm as much and can I have your reaction if it's indeed true that the federal government seems to be shutting state prosecutors out?
- [27:52]
Jacob Frey
So that is my understanding. We learned the same thing a few hours ago. Our initial take, our initial understanding was that the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension at the state level was going to conduct an investigation jointly with the FBI, only to learn this morning that the BCA in Minnesota was taken out of it. By the way, like the BCA is not some like weirdo, radical, crazy group or something that is going to have a result that is predetermined. This is a group that operates out of the state level, filled largely with people in law enforcement, but they've conducted fair investigations and come to different conclusions. In fact, they just collect evidence. And the investigations that they have conducted have at times resulted in a finding of no culpability, and at times have resulted in a finding that a charge should move forward. And so to just exclude this group entirely is deeply concerning to me and runs part and parcel with what we've seen from this Trump administration, which is they want to control the narrative, even when the narrative runs counter to exactly what we're seeing on live video. I mean, that's one of the most crazy things here. It's like you can see the video, it's right there in front of you. And for them to create this garbage BS narrative from the get go is problematic to say the least. I heard what Kristi Noem was saying, and it struck me as someone that did not believe a word that she herself was saying.
- [29:28]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Do you have confidence that Pam Bondi's doj, Cash Patel's FBI is going to conduct a fair and proper investigation, especially in light of the fact that all of these administration officials, including, including Kristi Noem, including J.D. vance, including the President of the United States, have already basically come out and offered their conclusion, which is that, you know, the ICE agent did nothing wrong and in fact, he was only defending himself in front of, you know, imminent risk or death.
- [29:57]
Jacob Frey
Yeah, that's obviously deeply concerning. You know, I hate to pass judgment on an investigation when it's only commencing, but when you see an administration that doesn't seem to care about the facts and is running to their conclusion from the very get go, no, that does not inspire confidence that you're going to get a result of justice. And justice, by the way, doesn't mean conviction. Justice means fairness. Justice means you look at the truth. Justice means you see what happens in the video, you interview the witnesses, you take forensic evidence and whatever else, and you come to to a conclusion based on it. That's my concern right now is that justice is not the primary goal. Narrative chaos and a whole lot of dysfunction seems to be the primary driver.
- [30:51]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So on that point of chaos and dysfunction, we've seen instances where, in fact, the Trump administration will try to incite chaos, will try to incite dysfunction by, you know, sending in ICE agents, for example, into cities that have strong immigrant communities, like my city of Los Angeles, like Portland, like Chicago, like Washington, D.C. and when, you know, the Easily predictable response to those ICE agents coming in is that people come out and protest them, as is their constitutionally protected right to do. Then the administration uses that as a pretext to be able to send in the National Guard, to send in the US Military. So is there some concern here that the White House will see, you know, a very, again, righteous, predictable response from the fact that an innocent woman was just shot and killed at the hands of a rogue ICE agency and basically use the resulting protest as a pretext to be able to send in more troops and basically ramp up the violence so that, you know, they can ultimately get what they want, which is yet another state, yet another city where the Trump administration can flex its muscles.
- [32:03]
Jacob Frey
Yeah, man. Edit. Copy what you just said and put that in my answer. I mean, that's the deal. They are looking for any excuse to deploy a militarized occupation in our city. We already have thousands of ICE agents, border control and beyond. And this level of chaos and concern and the tragedy that happened, sadly, was entirely predictable. In fact, we predicted it. The chief of police and I were talking, not just privately, but very publicly for over a month, saying that the kind of conduct that they are engaging in could very well lead to a resident, an ICE agent or police officer getting badly hurt or killed. Sadly, the latter is what happened. Innocent person got killed. Our city is grieving. But here's the thing. We're not going to take the bait. We are going to rise collectively to the occasion. We're going to meet that hate with a whole lot of love. We're going to meet that chaos with peace. We're going to push for justice every step of the way. And we're also going to recognize that the way that our immigrant communities could be hurt the most is by having even more of an occupation in our city. And so the tried and true and the nearly uniform message that I have been hearing from public officials, from community members, has been, of course, express First Amendment rights, but let's not give them an excuse.
- [33:39]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah. Have you spoken to either the attorney general or the district attorney about. About engaging in some state level or local level prosecution? Even if. Even if and when the federal government tries to basically usurp control of this whole investigation so that they can basically just absolve the ICE agent?
- [34:03]
Jacob Frey
We have a number of conversations happening presently about what litigation will and should look like. We have already been preemptively suing the Trump administration, along with a number of other mayors and governors and attorneys general from around the country. We do believe we have some routes here going forward. But I don't want to jump the gun too much before we know what the best route is. So the answer ultimately is, yes, we believe we have some form of outlet, but I don't want to predict that before we know entirely what it looks like.
- [34:39]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I guess the broader question, kind of along the same lines, though, is that there is some concern that the Trump administration will just try to basically usurp control of any investigation. And so in the event that the federal government does try to take control, are you confident that there will be. That there will be a state or local level prosecution that will take place in parallel, so that even if and when nothing happens at the federal level, because we know it's not gonna happen at the federal level, we can have some confidence that there will be, if not accountability, at least a fair process so that we can get toward accountability.
- [35:15]
Jacob Frey
You're asking all the right questions right now, and we are working on it. We don't know yet what that might look like. We want to make sure that we, unlike they, are operating by the Constitution and under the law. We want to make sure that we, unlike them, are pushing for justice. And we got to make sure that we're in lockstep with a number of other partners that obviously have authority over some of these things, which I don't.
- [35:46]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Have you spoken to the family at all or those who've survived? Renee Goode, is there any sense of how the family is holding up amid all of this?
- [35:59]
Jacob Frey
We've made some contact with a representative. I really don't want to speak, though. Yeah, the answer is no. I have not yet talked with the family, but I don't want to. You know, I can't imagine what they're feeling right now. All the love in the world that I've got and the 435,000 residents to call Minneapolis home is with them?
- [36:25]
Brian Tyler Cohen
There was a moment where among all of the clips that had been circulating, that the news had spoken to one. I don't know if he was in his 20s, maybe. And he basically came out and said, like, I'm pretty right wing. This isn't. This isn't the way to do this. Have you heard from folks in Minneapolis or even around the country who may be of that political persuasion, who've had not the same response that Trump and Vance and Kristi Noem have had to this countless.
- [36:54]
Jacob Frey
And that gives me a whole lot of hope, because this is a moment where we gotta love our country more than our ideology. This is a moment when we've Got to understand that the foundation that is our constitution is being violated. And whether you're a Democrat or you're a Republican, you need to stand up right now for the endurance of our republic. And here's the thing. You can't just come into our city and pluck somebody off the, off the street, discriminating only on the basis of are they Somali or are they Latino? And then having no discrimination thereafter. In other words, if they are Somali, we can detain you. If you're Latino, we can take you out of the neighborhood, put you in a car, and nobody even knows where you're going. That's not okay under our Constitution, period. And everybody should be standing up against that. And so, moreover, you know, I think the kind of conduct that we've seen over and over again has seen a predictable conclusion, which is people getting hurt and ultimately killed. We've seen pregnant women dragged through the street. We've seen teenagers yanked out of cars. We have seen over and over again not a law enforcement body that is pushing for de escalation tactics, not a law enforcement body that is methodically trying to root out crime, but one that is not based in safety at all. And this is a really important point here because, you know, look, I'm, I'm pro law enforcement. We have worked with federal agents before to drive down crime. We've worked with the DEA, the FBI, the ATF, the U.S. attorney's office, and successfully driven down crime together in areas like north Minneapolis. Right now we're seeing historic lows on the north side in terms of shootings that ain't this.
- [39:00]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [39:01]
Jacob Frey
You know, trying to find murderers is not what they're doing. Trying to methodically find people that have done horrible things in our city and hurt people and engaged in narcotics trade. That's not what they were doing. If they were. I'm all in, man. We're anti murder in Minneapolis. This. We're pro safety. But what I will not tolerate is this kind of constitutional violation that is happening repeatedly and ICE is engaging in it. You know, you got them coming in. They clearly have not been trained in on constitutional law. They have not been trained in on de escalation tactics. It seems like they themselves answered a call to enter ICE in the very recent future, take a decent paycheck, and hey, we're going to fly across the country or whatever to come out to Minneapolis to cause a whole lot of havoc. That's what it seems like. It also seems like they're taking these orders from up top that can't even be followed. I think that somebody probably from very high up said, hey, go to Minneapolis and try to deport a bunch of Somalis. And nobody properly pushed back. And then they get here and realize, shit, all the Somalis are like, they're legal. They're American citizens.
- [40:20]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [40:20]
Jacob Frey
Vast majority are here legally. And then they're wondering what to do next.
- [40:26]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Right.
- [40:27]
Jacob Frey
This is, again, not a methodical operation.
- [40:30]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Last question here. You obviously made a lot of news yesterday when you, what I think was very correctly told ICE to get the fuck out of Minneapolis. That that was followed by, I think, a wave of faux outrage on the right, which is especially surprising considering Donald Trump, their leader, is not exactly puritanical when it comes to his rhetoric. So can I have your reaction to, I think, the wave of pearl clutching that we saw among Republicans who seem to have forgotten who their president is?
- [41:03]
Jacob Frey
Yeah, I'm so sorry that I offended their Disney princess years. You know, when you compare the inflammatory nature of dropping an F bomb, and by the way, Donald Trump has said far worse to killing somebody, you know which one of those is more inflammatory? The F bomb. Killing somebody.
- [41:25]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Right?
- [41:27]
Jacob Frey
Yeah, I'm going to killing somebody.
- [41:29]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [41:30]
Jacob Frey
Yeah, that's the inflammatory one here. And so, no, I stand by everything that I said. Absolutely. And they can do the faux outrage all they want, but I mean every word I said, including the F word.
- [41:48]
Brian Tyler Cohen
We'll leave it there. Mayor Fry, thanks so much for taking the time today. I appreciate it. And good luck as you continue to navigate this whole, again, unnecessary tragedy at the hands of ICE in your city.
- [41:59]
Jacob Frey
Thanks so much for having me.
- [42:04]
Brian Tyler Cohen
No Lie is brought to you by Shopify. When I started this podcast, it seemed like I had to figure everything out on my own. Scripts, setups, filming schedule, logos, all of it. I'm definitely not tech savvy, so it was super overwhelming. And every day seemed to introduce a new decision that needed an answer. And when you're starting off with something new, it seems like your to do list just keeps growing every day with new tasks. And that list can easily begin to overrun your life. Finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything can be such a game changer for millions of businesses. That tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e commerce platforms in the US from websites like mine, briantyler, cohen.com to brands just getting started. Get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your brand style, accelerate your content creation. Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools that write product descriptions, page headlines, and even enhance your product photography. Get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you. Easily create email and social media campaigns wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping, to process returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into With Shopify by your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com BTC go to shopify.com BTC shopify.com BTC I'm joined now by the Governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro. Thanks so much for joining me.
- [43:43]
Josh Shapiro
Great to be with you. Thanks for having me back.
- [43:45]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So we have watched as violence has kind of taken place at the hands of this rogue ICE agent in Minneapolis. And of course, that's led to protests. And the Trump administration responding by doubling down and defending the actions of this ICE agent. J.D. vance, for example, came out and basically suggested, as did Donald Trump, that it was the fault of the victim and that the ICE agent himself had nothing to do with it. And in fact, the administration continues to perpetuate this lie that the ICE agent was even hit. Trump said that he was dragged out the street. And so can I have your reaction to the fact that in light of, you know, these, these tragic, this tragic shooting, the Trump administration doubles down on the actions of, of the, the perpetrator and attacks the victim?
- [44:32]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah, I mean, look, first let's just start by saying we, we mourn the loss of life in Minnesota. And this woman left behind children. These children don't have a mom and left behind a spouse who doesn't have a loved one with them anymore. I mean, this is so tragic. And this is the consequence of what occurs when you have law enforcement coming in and working, not in concert with other levels of law enforcement, but coming in and eviscerating, really eroding the trust that you work so hard to build. Look, as governor, I've worked incredibly hard to build trust between the police and the community. And as a result, gun Violence is down 42% in Pennsylvania. Violent crime is down 12%. But I think what is needed right now as it relates to this tragic situation in Minnesota is a full investigation, an honest investigation. I've been part of those investigations as the former chief law enforcement officer of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And what you need in Those cases, when you're doing these tough investigations, is for the state, local, and federal governments to be working together. And so, in addition to all of the. The heated rhetoric from J.D. vance yesterday and all the untruths he told, all the lies he told yesterday, we also learned that the federal government is not participating in this investigation. And by failing to do so, you can't ensure that justice will be done. You can't repair the loss of trust that exists in a community. And I'll say this, these investigations are really hard. These investigations, at least on my watch, sometimes resulted in a law enforcement officer being charged and sometimes resulted in them not being charged. But we always followed the evidence. We always applied the law without fear or favor. And what you're seeing from this White House is a lack of respect for the rule of law and injecting more chaos in our communities.
- [46:32]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Do you presume that by virtue of trying to ice out, no pun intended, but ice out state investigators, as the Trump administration is trying to do in Minnesota? I spoke with the mayor of Minneapolis yesterday, and he confirmed that. That whereas normally state prosecutors are involved in this process, that the FBI isn't sharing information with them.
- [46:51]
Pete Buttigieg
Right.
- [46:51]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Do you presume that the reason for that is the Trump administration's already made up its mind, which, frankly, would make sense given the fact that we've heard from Kristi Noem, we've heard from JD Vance, we've heard from Donald Trump, all of whom have blindly defended the actions of the ICE agents. Again, even going so far as to lie about what happened, I think what's.
- [47:11]
Josh Shapiro
Clear is they are lying. I mean, J.D. vance said that there's. What did he say? Absolute immunity or total immunity for this ICE official that. That doesn't exist in. If you're applying the rule of law without fear or favor, that is not a reality. Here's the reality of how these investigations work. The local prosecutors, which presumably would be the local DA or the state attorney general, whoever's got jurisdiction on the state side, would conduct a thorough investigation. In this case, it would involve local, state, and federal authorities sharing information. They would follow all of the evidence to determine whether or not that shooting was justified. Right. Obviously, people have strong feelings, particularly when you just see that video. I certainly do. It does not seem justified to me. But you've got to apply all of the evidence to the law, and then you make a charging decision after that. That charging decision needs to come from those state or local prosecutors. And what J.D. vance and others are doing is hindering that prosecution and hindering the ability for these local communities to feel safe again, to have that trust again with law enforcement that I know the mayor, the governor and the police commissioner and others have worked so, so hard to build in Minneapolis and in other communities across Minnesota.
- [48:31]
Brian Tyler Cohen
You know, we have seen the extent to which the ICE agents that have been hired are clearly not capable of doing their jobs, clearly not qualified for their jobs in this case are trigger happy. And, you know, getting the message now from this administration that even despite the fact that they're not qualified, that they can act with impunity, that they're gonna have, you know, cover from this White house, from the J.D. vance's and Donald Trump's. The world is. Is. Is this agency tenable as it exists right now?
- [49:02]
Josh Shapiro
Well, I can't speak to their training, but I can tell you that they cannot act with impunity. That's not how the laws of, of our commonwealth or this country work. They are going to be held to account. I hope that the prosecutors are able to get access to all the information they need and to make a determination as to whether or not that shooting was justified. Again, we can all render our opinions based on what we've seen in that video. I'm sure there's other evidence that needs to be looked at as well. And so the point I'm trying to make here is that you've got to have that type of investigation. No one gets to act with impunity. Let's take another piece of this, which I know is incredibly disturbing to me and many others, and that is that these ICE officials, these ICE agents are running around masked. I can speak to the laws here in Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania, we have very, very strict rules of the road as to when a law enforcement official can wear a mask when they're going out in public in very limited situations. And we're very careful about that because we understand that when someone is masked or perhaps they're not being identified as a law enforcement official, you can create real chaos in a community. We're very purposeful about masking. What's clear is that ICE thinks they can operate under different rules, rules that we know breed mistrust in a community, rules that we know can lead to tragic outcomes in a community. So I share that. Just as one example of how you've got situations where local law enforcement, where state law enforcement are working in concert with a community. And again, here in Pennsylvania, we do that and crime is down. And when they come in and don't work in concert, tragedy strikes.
- [50:50]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Do you have any concern yes, for Minneapolis, but more broadly, I mean, you're the governor of a state that has plenty of major cities. And especially important, given the fact that Pennsylvania is a critical state come election time, do you have any concern that when we see events like this, that far from it being an accident in the eyes of this administration or a tragedy in the eyes of this administration, that they view it as an opportunity because they can exploit, exploit these inciting incidents to be able to give themselves justification to send in the military, send in the National Guard, as they've been shown, as they've been want to do. Whether it's in my city of Los Angeles, whether it's in Chicago, whether it's in Portland, whether It's in Washington, D.C.
- [51:36]
Josh Shapiro
I worry about that as governor every single day. Look, my primary responsibility is to keep people safe. And we work so hard to bother, fund our law enforcement and also fund our community organizations are doing the hard work on the ground to keep people safe and then get them to work together. And so, yes, I see this administration as undermining that, as a real danger to that, as an injector of chaos into that. And so we are quite literally tabletop doing tabletop exercises to prepare should the federal government spend, send in troops that we didn't ask for, send in ICE agents that we didn't ask for, and try and erode that trust, trying to do things that are going to protect that trust, do things to keep the peace and to keep law and order and civility here in our commonwealth. We believe we're prepared for that. But unfortunately, we have a federal government who's working against us. You cited some other state examples, including your own state of California, where we saw that play out. And what they did was they created more danger. What we saw last night in Philadelphia. I just want to take a minute and focus on, because I think it, it speaks to this moment we're in. What happened in Minnesota has had an impact all across the country. You know how I know that? Because there were peaceful protests last night in Philadelphia. Speaking to what occurred in Minneapolis, and I want to stress the word peaceful. Why was it peaceful? Because our local police and our state police knew it was going to happen. Worked with organizers to ensure that they had a safe place to peacefully protest, worked with the protesters to ensure that they were engaging in a peaceful manner so that their voices can be heard. Why do I share that with you? Because one, it speaks to the national impact the horrors of Minneapolis are having, and number two, it speaks to how we're doing things Right in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and in this case, the city of Philadelphia, where we were able to have Americans come out and peacefully protest, exercise their First Amendment rights, and do so in a way where our community remains safe.
- [53:44]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So I want to switch gears a little bit here. You have just announced your reelection for governor of Pennsylvania. What's going to be your priority as we head into this next year?
- [53:54]
Josh Shapiro
I'm going to continue to get stuff done for the good people of Pennsylvania. And by the way, if you don't mind, I got to say, if you like what we're doing, text GSD to 32210. I want to continue to build on the work that we've done to invest record amounts in public education. As a result, test scores are up and the number of teachers is rising again. I want to continue to do the hard work we've done to reduce crime in our commonwealth. Crime is down 12%. Violent gun violence is down 42%. I want to continue to do the hard work to cut red tape and make strategic investments to grow our economy. As a result, we've got the only growing economy in the entire Northeast. I want to put more money back in people's pockets. I've cut taxes seven times to reduce the burden on Pennsylvanians. Now, I've done all of that with a divided legislature, and so we've had to make compromises along the way. I'm going to work hard in these midterms, not just to reelect myself, my outstanding Lieutenant Governor, Austin Davis, but to win a trifecta in the legislature to help win those races. We've got four competitive U.S. house seats that really could determine the balance of power in the House of Representatives and be able to come back after these midterms and do more, like raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, holding the electric companies accountable who want to raise our rates, making sure we pass the Fairness act, which would enshrine into law protections for our LGBTQ brothers and sisters across this commonwealth. We got a lot more work to do. I'm proud of what we've done already. I'm proud of our get stuff done mentality and approach. We got a lot more work to do.
- [55:34]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So I've been especially focused on redistricting across the country. I've spoken to Governors Moore, governors, obviously, Newsom, Pritzker, all across the country about what happens in each respective state on redistricting. I know Pennsylvania's in a little bit of a different bucket because you have a divided legislature, but in the event that Democrats are able to gain a majority in the state legislature in Pennsylvania. Where would you stand on the prospect of redistricting, recognizing the breadth of states on the right that have engaged in this process? And granted we've had a couple of states on the left step up to counteract that. We've had obviously Gavin Newsom and California Democrats add five seats expressly as a way to counteract, to neutralize what's happening in Texas. But, you know, we just found out that Ron DeSantis will be adding probably three seats in Florida. And frankly, I presume that this isn't the end of this cycle. And so in the event that we're able to see Democrats take control of the legislation, legislature, where would you stand on redistricting in pa?
- [56:38]
Josh Shapiro
So let me kind of unpack all of that first. Let me just say, you know, Texas started it, right? They started with these mid cycle redistricting. And I've said this before, I'll say it again. And I know you're a California and I appreciate the fact that Governor Newsom stepped up and in effect neutralized what happened in Texas. You're more of an expert on all the math and than I am. But you know, in effect, what we're seeing is this race on redistricting that may kind of cancel one another out plus or minus a little bit. Again, you're more of an expert on those numbers than I am. What I am focused on though, and this is where we have to put 100% of our attention is on these midterms, where in my state we will have four competitive US House seats, where if those redistricting efforts kind of cancel one another out again, plus or minus, it could come down to Pennsylvania again and those four seats. And so I don't really have the luxury of thinking too far beyond those midterms. I gotta focus on these midterms and ensuring again, not just my own reelection, but sort of rising, you know, lifting everybody up in the process and working hard with our candidates for Congress to ensure they get across the finish line as well. And put Hakeem Jeffries in the Speaker's chair.
- [57:56]
Brian Tyler Cohen
In going around Pennsylvania, talking to Pennsylvanians, I mean, your state is a good indicator of, you know, a good bellwether of lies. What have you found is among the most potent issues, especially for independents and Republicans. Like, I generally know where Democrats stand, but I think that there's some opportunity, some opening here for Democrats to get a lot of these crossover voters. In the off year election this past November, we saw anywhere from 7 to 12% of former Trump voters vote for Democrats, whether it's in the Prop 50 redistricting ballot measure or whether it was in New Jersey or Virginia's gubernatorial races, and on and on. And so there's some opportunity here to take what had previously been a really inelastic electorate and actually get some movement here, given the dismal approval ratings of the Republican Party. And so. But what issues in particular do you think are ripe for Democrats to exploit as we head toward midterms?
- [58:56]
Josh Shapiro
You know, I've run for statewide office in Pennsylvania three times. I'm three. And, oh, and each time, I set a record for receiving the most number of votes in those particular cycles. I share that with you because in my divided state, the only way to achieve that kind of electoral success is by getting votes not just from my fellow Democrats, but a whole lot of Republicans and independents as well. And so we've had a lot of ability to cross over and get people that may have voted for President Trump in a past election vote for me as well. And I think the reason for that is I show up in their communities, I listen and then I deliver. I get stuff done for them. And when you show up and you really listen, rural, urban, suburban communities, neighborhoods that voted for Donald Trump, neighborhoods that voted for Kamala Harris or Joe Biden, what you find is folks kind of basically just want the same few things. They want really good schools for their kids and grandkids. They want safe communities. They want economic opportunity in the neighborhoods where they want to live, and they want to be able to afford to live in those neighborhoods, and they want someone who's going to go out and protect their rights and freedoms every single day. That. That's the work I've done. That's the work I'm going to continue to do. I think that's the Pennsylvania way, and I. I want to continue to do that. What I have heard from Republicans and independents to kind of get at the heart of your question is a whole lot of buyer's remorse. I go out to farms and talk to farmers, and they're getting killed because of Donald Trump's tariffs. And instead, Trump turns around, acknowledges that they're getting killed, and tries to offer them a handout. They don't want a handout. They want their markets to be able to sell their crops, to be able to sell their meats and their cheeses and their poultry and dairy and everything else. We're seeing small businesses in communities that voted for Donald Trump getting hurt. We're seeing a whole lot of folks in rural Pennsylvania lose access to health care because of Trump's policies. And so what I think I'm seeing and what I'm hearing is a whole lot of buyers remorse, a whole lot of people really realizing they got screwed by the guy that they put into office.
- [61:02]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Gov, thanks so much for taking the time. I appreciate it.
- [61:04]
Josh Shapiro
Thanks. See you soon.
- [61:08]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I'm joined now by Congressman Dan Goldman. Thanks so much for joining me.
- [61:11]
Dan Goldman
Thanks for having me, Brian.
- [61:12]
Brian Tyler Cohen
So I want to start with a little bit of breaking news right here. We have all seen the situation unfolding in Minneapolis where an ICE officer executed an American citizen. So first and foremost, can I have your reaction to this kind of major update at the hands of an increasingly rogue lawless agency?
- [61:32]
Dan Goldman
Yeah, it is so upsetting, it is infuriating. And it is sadly not surprising. It was just a matter of time until something like this happened. ICE officers are going around the country causing chaos, inciting violence, inflaming tensions, using far excessive force, and frankly, just trying to create fear and havoc in communities while not going after the worst of the worst that they promised they were going to try to deport. They're also, Brian and this is something I don't think has gotten enough attention with the absurd amount of money that the big ugly Bill gave to ICE. They are hiring with $50,000 bonuses at an incredibly fast rate. They are bypassing normal training standards and requirements and sending people out to do this work who are not trained, not qualified and not experienced. And it was just a matter of time until this happened. I'm actually surprised it has taken this long, but it is a real wake up call to the department. Should be, let's put it this way, should be a real wake up call to Kristi Noem, the Department of Homeland Security, and Stephen Miller, who is clearly the driver behind all of this immigration policy. And unfortunately, what we've seen from them in response is the exact opposite.
- [63:19]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Can you talk a little bit about what you've done in terms of pushing back against these extrajudicial efforts at the hands of ice?
- [63:28]
Dan Goldman
Yeah, we've been really devoting a tremendous amount of time to this. My district office in Manhattan is across the street from 26 Federal Plaza, which is where most of the immigration courts are in New York City and where the detention facility is that ICE has been using to keep the large number of detainees that they've been picking up, the vast majority of whom have no criminal history at all, arrest or conviction. And many are following legal pathways to come to this country and are therefore being illegally removed. So we've taken a number of different measures from the macro to the micro. On the macro level, I've introduced several bills. One that would unmask ICE agents, one that would prevent them from arresting immigrants who are going to court for court appearances or going to ICE for immigration check ins, as they are required to do by law, where they're kind of, they're sabotaged and, you know, booby trapped almost and just grabbed from court. And I've also came up with a lawsuit that we recently won. Eleven of my colleagues and I filed lawsuit against the DHS to allow us to conduct oversight of these immigration detention facilities. The one in my district at 26 Federal Plaza had already been ruled to be inhumane and unconstitutional by a judge. And we saw some video of, you know, a 90, 100 people in a very small space staying there for two, three weeks. No showers, toilets, just in the middle of these large rooms where they're staying. Horrific conditions. We've won that lawsuit and I've been able to now go do oversight of that facility and surprise, surprise, knowing that I may be coming. And I've both advised them I'm coming once and I've come unannounced another time. The conditions are very different. It's spic and span, which is good. That's the point of oversight. And then finally, we've really set up a on the ground triage center in my district district office where advocates court watchers immediately bring families of loved ones who have been detested, detained and arrested. And they bring them over and we've got a whole process where we make sure that the family is okay, that they're going to have food, health care, shelter if they need it. We refer them to lawyers who can file habeas petitions very quickly and we get them to sign the release so that we can advocate for them with ICE if they don't have their possessions or otherwise. And it's made a difference. Nine immigrants have been released as a result of these efforts in the last month or so.
- [66:22]
Brian Tyler Cohen
As we watch the situation in Minnesota, for example, play out, do you have any concern that the Trump administration will use this inevitable violence that we're going to see as a pushback to the fact that ICE just killed an American citizen. Use that to basically ramp up, ramp up, whether it's National Guard or US Military in very much the same way that, you know, when, when, when ICE was sent into Los Angeles and inevitable protests grew against ice, that Trump used that as the inciting incident as some justification to then send in the National Guard there. And so they kind of benefit from. From having these awful moments because it gives them a pretext to be able to say, oh, look at all this violence. There's an invasion, there's an insurrection, there's a rebellion. We need to send in our troops. Do you have any concern that this. That this is going to be used kind of to their benefit to further clamp down in a way that this administration clearly wants to do?
- [67:20]
Dan Goldman
I have had a concern about this for a long time. It's part of the reason I wrote a letter to the nypd, nypd, urging them to be prepared to arrest ICE agents who go rogue. Because this is all part of the plan that Donald Trump has created to. To make up this violence and chaos in these cities, to send ICE in, to have the ICE agents use excessive force, to try to have them incite violence and incite protests that they then will inflame and potentially turn violent so that Donald Trump can then say, oh, well, we need now the National Guard to go in.
- [68:01]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Right.
- [68:02]
Dan Goldman
Because there's so much violence that was incited by the federal government itself.
- [68:07]
Josh Shapiro
Yeah.
- [68:07]
Dan Goldman
And, you know, this is all part of a pattern where Donald Trump is clearly trying to create so much unrest that he can invoke the Insurrection act or he can invoke the Alien Enemies act so that he can clamp down even more. And it's been clear to me for quite some time that this is the pathway that he's been going. And there are no guardrails. And Stephen Miller is running this. He's a dangerous person. He is legitimately a really, really dangerous person who is kind of the evil character straight out of, you know, a dictatorship movie, the right hand man who does all the dirty work. And the fact that he claimed that what happened today in Minneapolis was domestic terrorism by the victim. By the victim.
- [69:03]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [69:04]
Dan Goldman
Is the type of gaslighting that we see with January 6th, that we see this administration doing all the time. There's no domestic terrorism. In fact, she was trying to get away, and that is crystal clear when she was shot several times in the head.
- [69:21]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [69:21]
Dan Goldman
So any which way, it was completely, completely uncalled for, unnecessary and far, far excessive of what, even under their best circumstance, which I don't think it is, that is not how you respond. And to have the support of the officer by Stephen Miller, by Christy Noem and DHS is disgusting. It's absolutely disgusting. And we on the Homeland Security Committee are already talking about different ways that we can respond to this, because we're not going away.
- [69:57]
Brian Tyler Cohen
I want to switch gears a little bit here. We've obviously seen the Trump administration execute its incursion into Venezuela to bring Nicolas Maduro to the United States States. That has kind of whetted Trump's appetite now. And he's. He's threatened the same thing in Cuba. In Colombia now, there's an increased probability that he may actually go into Greenland, and the administration refused to rule out military intervention there. So can I get your reaction to the fact that we may be seeing kind of return to imperialism 2.0 now that Trump has decided that he wants to own the Western Hemisphere?
- [70:32]
Dan Goldman
Yeah. It's one thing when you at least argue, I think legitimately, that there's serious narco terrorism going on in a number of these different countries that is dangerous and damaging to the public safety and national security of Americans. That is certainly not enough to do what they did, what he did in Venezuela, to use that as a pretext to effect a military operation with no plan for a day after that. We know how this works. We've seen this movie before in Iraq and Afghanistan. But, you know, Maduro was a really bad person who has been charged with very serious crimes. I would feel like that was more of the objective if Donald Trump had not pardoned the Honduran president.
- [71:27]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Right.
- [71:27]
Dan Goldman
Who had committed the same crimes as Maduro.
- [71:30]
Brian Tyler Cohen
And. And by the way, come out and said that the whole. The whole basis for this was to take the oil.
- [71:35]
Dan Goldman
Exactly. And that he notified the oil companies, but not Congress.
- [71:39]
Jacob Frey
Right.
- [71:40]
Dan Goldman
In order to do this. So it's clear that's not really his mission, but at least it's colorable. Greenland is part of Denmark, which is a NATO ally that we are obligated to not only not invade, but to defend.
- [71:53]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [71:54]
Dan Goldman
And there has no allegation that Greenland has done anything wrong.
- [71:59]
Pete Buttigieg
Wrong.
- [71:59]
Dan Goldman
Anything at all wrong to the United States. So this is just an outrageous Putinesque land grab. It is no different than Vladimir Putin. Actually, it's worse in some respects than Vladimir Putin just saying, I'm going into Ukraine and I'm taking it because it's a NATO ally. So even just the talk of it is preposterous. It is obviously a violation of international law, violation of NATO, a violation of everything, but a violation of American values. And that has to have an impact at some point. Are the House Republicans, are the Senate Republicans ever going to stand up for American values, for morality, for the democracy and what we stand for for the last 250 years? We are ruining our reputation around the world. Absolutely eviscerating it. And it is not easy to get back. And we are no longer the leader of the free world. Donald Trump himself is a thug and wannabe dictator that is following the Vladimir Putin playbook. And if the Republicans in Congress don't actually stand up and say Congress is its own independent body that owes an oath to the Constitution, independent from Donald Trump, then I am very worried about what is going to happen in the next 12 months until we take back the majority in January of 2027.
- [73:29]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah, well, something tells me that Mike Johnson isn't exactly going to be receptive to that plea. But with that said, I mean, this is.
- [73:36]
Dan Goldman
We don't need Mike Johnson, by the way. You know, if we get a critical mass of Republicans, that's. That's all we need.
- [73:43]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Right. And we've seen instances.
- [73:44]
Dan Goldman
We just need any of them other than Thomas Massey to actually stand up.
- [73:49]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah. And we've seen, you know, a record number of discharge petitions pass as the result of the fact that even these Republicans are recognizing, or some Republicans are recognizing, that Mike Johnson's slavish fealty to Donald Trump isn't worth losing their own jobs over. So we have seen this abdication of America first values. Obviously, this is the opposite of what Trump promised on the campaign trail. But it's not just on foreign policy. It's also on domestic policy, because Trump had all these promises about affordability that have not come to pass. And so can you talk a little bit about the work that you've done as far as affordability is concerned as we head toward a midterm cycle where that is the principal issue on Americans minds?
- [74:27]
Dan Goldman
Yeah, look, the, the abdicate, I mean, the betrayal of his promises on the campaign are, are. The list is too long. But there's no question that at the top of that list is his economic policy. And it would be one thing if the economy soured, maybe perhaps not totally his fault, and he was doing things to try to do it, and it didn't work and inflation was going, whatever it is. But he has so intentionally targeted working Americans for the benefit of billionaires that it's insulting to our intelligence. And just yesterday, he announced that he was going to withhold $10 billion for child care from five blue states that he doesn't like. That's the way that he is operating. Child care that is so essential to every family. And he continues to target that. He continues to favor the oil companies and the billionaires at the expense of the Americans. And so I recently introduced a bill that I think tackles a lot of this problem which it really goes after the super wealthy who do not pay their fair share because Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk they pay a 1% and a 3% effective tax rate. They do that because rather than sell their stock and have to pay capital gains, they borrow against their stock and they don't pay any tax on those loans. And so I introduced the Robinhood act which quite simply would put a capital gains tax 20% on those loans so that they could not avoid paying taxes on the money that they're using, the billions of dollars that these billionaires are using. And that would generate almost $30 billion which would be more than enough to pay for universal childcare and then have some money left over. And so this is the kind of solution that we need to be thinking about to address massive wealth inequality that is making it too difficult for too many to access the American dream.
- [76:49]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Even.
- [76:49]
Dan Goldman
Out the opportunities available to Americans and provide more revenue to lift up the floor the safety net that every American should get.
- [77:02]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Is there any Republican co sponsor of that legislation?
- [77:05]
Dan Goldman
There isn't yet. But I will tell you I have had at least one Republican I've talked to another one about it who indicated to me that they like the bill.
- [77:14]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [77:14]
Dan Goldman
And what I'm hopeful for is it's not passing tomorrow or this, this term. But at some point in divided government there are going to, it's going to be need to be a compromise and the Democrats are going to demand more revenue and the Republicans are going to have to compromise. And this to me is an area where even just judging from my Republican colleagues reactions, they might be able to swallow this one better than some of the others.
- [77:45]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Yeah.
- [77:46]
Dan Goldman
And so I'm hopeful that this will really become a bigger part of the conversation as we move forward, forward in trying to tackle wealth inequality, trying to help our working families.
- [77:57]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Okay, so we'll leave it there. I do want to note for folks who are watching right now that you have launched your reelection campaign in your district in New York. So for folks who are looking to learn more, I'm going to put the link to your website right here on the screen and also in the post description of this video. Congressman, thanks so much for taking the time. I appreciate it.
- [78:13]
Dan Goldman
Thanks for being with you, Brian, as always.
- [78:16]
Brian Tyler Cohen
Thanks again to Pete Buttigieg, Jacob Fry, Josh Shapiro and Dan Goldman. That's it for this episode. Talk to you on Wednesday. You've been listening to no Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graeber, music by Wellesley and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicotera. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me Ryan Tyler Cohen on all of my other channels. Or you can go to briantylercohen.com to learn more.