Trump's Democrat-blaming blows up in his face

Summary

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No Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen

Episode: Trump’s Democrat-Blaming Blows Up in His Face
Date: February 2, 2025
Host: Brian Tyler Cohen

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Overview

This episode dissects the fallout after a plane crash in Washington, D.C., as Donald Trump, early into his second administration, scrambles to shift blame onto Democrats and "DEI" (Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion) for federal failures, despite Republicans’ unified government control. Brian is joined by Senators Raphael Warnock, Adam Schiff, and Amy Klobuchar to analyze the Republican strategy, the state of agency leadership under Trump, and the Democrats' path forward amidst growing executive overreach and GOP-enabled dysfunction.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Trump’s Blame Game & DEI Scapegoating

[00:31–05:55]

• Trump’s instinct, after the D.C. plane crash, is to deflect responsibility onto "woke" policies and Democrats, even though Republicans now hold all levers of government.
  • Trump ended DEI at the FAA, froze federal hiring, disbanded related safety committees, and ousted leadership, then blames the outcome of these actions on Democrats and diversity initiatives.
  • Quote:
    “Everything that happens in aviation moving forward is Trump’s. He owns it now. He can’t blame the woke Democrats… Republicans are in charge. They run the House, the Senate, the White House.” (Brian Tyler Cohen, [02:56])
• Analysis of right-wing disinformation tactics: Republicans fill narrative voids with misleading attacks; Democrats’ slow response allows false narratives to stick.
  • “There were still bodies in the Potomac when Trump started shouting about DEI, meaning nothing is sacred. And this has been a recurring theme for the right.” (Brian, [04:11])

2. Policy Consequences: Trade Wars & Tariffs

[05:28–06:20]

• Trump’s policy decisions, such as new trade tariffs, will most harm his own states’ voters—especially as Canada targets red states in retaliation.
  • “Trump won’t be able to diffuse responsibility onto anybody else. He owns this move of imposing tariffs, which means he owns the consequences of it.” (Brian, [05:46])

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Interviews

Senator Raphael Warnock (Georgia)

[06:28–24:24]
Focus: RFK Jr.'s HHS Nomination, Republican Hypocrisy, Trump’s Failings, and Christianity in Politics

RFK Jr. Hearing & Accountability

• Warnock confronts RFK Jr. about comparing CDC workers to Nazi death camps and pedophiles. RFK Jr. denies the statements, but Warnock reads his words back to him ([06:39–08:45]).
  • Quote:
    “For me, those are disturbing characterizations of the CDC workers that I know who are trying to keep the American public safe every single day.” (Warnock, [06:59])
• Warnock calls out the culture of impunity Trump nominees display when misleading during confirmation, and explains the math: Democrats can’t block nominees without some Republican support.
  • “It's just plain math. We've got to have a handful of Republicans who will choose nation over party.” (Warnock, [12:42])

Billionaire Influence & Democracy

• Responds sharply to donor Nicole Shanahan’s claim of regret for backing him:
  • “It sounds like she thinks she purchased my seat. I beg to differ. The people of Georgia elected me in a historic election… I represent the people of Georgia and their interests.” (Warnock, [10:17])

Trump’s Lawlessness and Executive Actions

• Known resistance to Trump’s first-day pardons for January 6th insurrectionists and executive attempts to purge civil servants ([14:24–16:13]).
  • Quote:
    “You are witnessing the administrative manifestation of January 6th. This is an attack on the democracy itself.” (Warnock, [16:14])

On Trump Blaming DEI after Tragedy

• Warnock, as both pastor and senator, laments Trump’s lack of compassion and divisive blame tactics in the wake of the plane crash:
  • “For Donald Trump to pile on his politics and his bigoted agenda on top of the pain that these families are already feeling is way beyond the pale.” (Warnock, [17:48])
  • “The reason why we have the safest aviation system in the world is because all prior presidents… have left politics out of this kind of investigation. He should do the same.” ([19:59])

Christian Values and Policy Hypocrisy

• Warnock rebukes the GOP’s self-branding as the party of Christian values while implementing policies that harm the marginalized:
  • “Their policies bear false witness against the God I know … the litmus test for one's faith is the depth of your commitment to the poor, the marginalized. That's the gospel that I read…” (Warnock, [21:04])
  • “Their walk doesn’t match their talk, and their policy doesn’t line up with their faith claims.” ([22:32])

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Senator Adam Schiff (California)

[25:49–39:49]
Focus: Kash Patel’s FBI Nomination, Senate Republican Cowardice, and The Dismantling of Safeguards

Confronting Kash Patel – The Hearing

• Schiff recalls confronting Patel:

  • “I want you… to look [Capitol Police] in the eye, Mr. Patel, and tell them you’re proud of what you did… Tell them you’re proud that you raised money off of people that assaulted their colleagues…” (Schiff, [25:58])

• On Patel’s evasiveness and dishonesty:

  • “He couldn’t look them in the eye… wouldn’t tell them he was ashamed, wouldn’t tell them he was proud… he didn’t have the courage to even look him in the eye.” (Schiff, [26:58])

• Predicts Patel’s confirmation by sycophancy, not qualifications:

  • “In Trump world… the bigger the sycophancy, the faster you rise.” ([28:38])

Private GOP Concerns, Public Silence

• Schiff notes that some Republicans are privately disturbed but are paralyzed by fear of Trump’s retribution.
  • “They all know that they have to kiss the ring and grovel at his feet… That’s what they’re dealing with.” ([30:43])
  • “Why are we in this job if we’re not willing to stand up?” ([31:18])
• Explicitly does not trust Patel’s assurances not to weaponize the DOJ:
  • “No… He contradicts himself all the time… This is not the guy you want to trust to have a truly independent FBI.” (Schiff, [32:19])

Schedule F and Project 2025

• Warns that the Trump agenda aims to “convert the whole federal workforce into his political arm… by purging people at the top levels of these agencies who are getting notices ‘your services are no longer required.’”
  • “Sadly, Trump and his minions learned from their failed experiment four years ago how to do it better this time.” ([34:47])
  • Schiff urges Democratic resistance:
    “We’re going to have to fight them hard. We have to hold on for two years until we can take back the Congress of the United States and put a real check on this rogue administration.” ([36:15])

On GOP Red Lines

• Schiff expresses doubt but hope that some Republicans may eventually resist:
  • “We have seen the floor lower and lower and lower… Is there a point where they’ll get to that showing of courage? I hope so.” ([37:31])

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Senator Amy Klobuchar (Minnesota)

[39:54–56:43]
Focus: Patel’s Hearings, Institutional Breakdown, Democratic Strategy

Patel’s Hearing and Law Enforcement Integrity

• Klobuchar presses Patel on his “museum of the deep state” remarks, but he dodges, avoids answering, and is shielded by Republicans.

  • “He would not tell the truth. He would say he didn't remember… I had record sites for every single thing I asked him… Facts matter.” (Klobuchar, [43:13])

• Voicing concern for politicization of the FBI:

  • “If they start putting more political people… you completely break down that apolitical nature of the FBI… that is how important this job is.” ([44:31], [46:09])
  • Bill Barr, former Attorney General, was quoted: “Cash Patel would be promoted to FBI… over his dead body.” ([46:45])

On GOP Complicity & Working Across the Aisle

• Surprised by Republican willingness to “just go along with the administration,” Klobuchar nevertheless stresses the responsibility to seek common ground—on costs, healthcare—while calling out excesses.

  • “Once they start hurting regular people by giving tax cuts for billionaires at their expense… That becomes a problem.” ([48:09])

• Recognizes limits and Democratic unity in crisis:

  • “Our job is to find common ground when we can and then stand our ground when we must.” ([50:33])

• Describes small successes in resisting Trump’s overreach—Matt Gaetz’s nomination withdrawal, amendments to block abortion bans, and pushback on funding freezes.

On Trump Exploiting Tragedy

• Klobuchar rebukes Trump’s exploitation of the D.C. crash:
  • “For him to be using this, literally a few hours after we have learned that there are no survivors and that people have died, I just… I don't think you've ever seen anyone in leadership in America act like that.” ([55:18])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Warnock on Bigotry and Compassion:

  • “For Donald Trump to pile on his politics and his bigoted agenda on top of the pain that these families are already feeling is way beyond the pale.” ([17:48])

• Schiff on Democratic Fragility:

  • “History is littered with countries that saw their democracy disappeared and didn’t seem to be noticing it while it was happening.” ([31:54])

• Klobuchar on Oath and Resistance:

  • “We took this oath, right, to protect and defend the Constitution… Our job is to find common ground when we can and then stand our ground when we must.” ([48:09], [50:33])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:31] — Main episode begins: Trump’s response to the plane crash, scapegoating, and early failures.
• [06:28–24:24] — Interview with Senator Warnock: CDC/DEI, nominee integrity, Christian values, Trump’s lawlessness.
• [25:49–39:49] — Interview with Senator Schiff: Kash Patel’s hearing, Republican complicity, subverting the federal workforce.
• [39:54–56:43] — Interview with Senator Klobuchar: Further dissection of Patel hearing, working in a Trump-dominated Congress, Democratic resolve.

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Final Thoughts & Democratic Roadmap

• Democrats acknowledge their limited immediate power but emphasize resistance, messaging, and standing up for institutions.
• All senators agree: vigilance, public pressure, and clear communication are vital as Republicans test the boundaries of law and democratic norms under Trump.
• The episode closes with a call for resolve, unity, and active engagement on the left.

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Transcript

[A]

Iman is always on call to her kids and her patients. One day she got the best ping ever. It was the Expedia app. Flight prices to Cozumel had just dropped, so it was a great time to book on the beach. Iman finally felt on call to herself almost. You were made to use your do not disturb mode. We were made to track flight prices to out of office Expedia made to travel available as a member benefit.

[B]

Today we're going to talk about Trump learning a quick lesson on the downside of unified control of government after he tried to blame a series of tragedies on Democrats. And I have three interviews. I sit down with Senator Raphael Warnock to discuss RFK's confirmation hearing and the hypocrisy of Republicans who hide behind their Christianity. I'm joined by Senator Schiff to discuss Cash Patel's confirmation hearing and his unwillingness to tell the truth. And I interview Senator Klobuchar to discuss the willingness of Democrats to fight as Trump continues to engage in lawlessness. I'm Brian Teller Cohen, and you're listening to no Lie. Just a week ago, I mentioned how the only silver lining about Republicans having unified control of government is that with Democrats out of power, Republicans won't have anyone to blame for their own failures. I assumed it would take longer for that to bear out. But just over a week into Trump's administration, the plane crash in Washington, D.C. put Trump in that exact position. He was so desperate not to catch any flack for the crash that even though no one was casting blame, Trump decided to come out and blame dei, diversity, equity, inclusion, which is the right's boogieing man. It's catch all this euphemism that really just means black people. In other words, Trump recognized that he was the person in charge, and in order to preempt having to take any responsibility, he wanted to lay down the marker that in fact, he wasn't to blame. And of course, that backfired in the sense that not only is he the president, not only are no Democrats in power, but the guy came into office and took all of these steps to, quote, restore excellence in our federal aviation. Here's a small sampling of what I mean. On January 20th, Trump and Elon Musk pushed out the FAA administrator. They never bothered naming a replacement. Also on January 20th, Trump implemented a federal hiring freeze which included air traffic controllers. That's important because we would eventually come to find out that the crash involves one air traffic controller doing a job that would normally require two people. On January 21, Trump disbanded the Aviation Security Advisory Committee, and he also fired the TSA director. On January 22, his White House posted, and this is a quote, president Donald J. Trump ends DEI madness and restores excellence and safety within the Federal Aviation Administration. And then, of course, one week later, the first commercial plane crash occurred in 16 years. So that's it. I mean, he already came out and said, no more dei. Everything that happens in aviation moving forward is Trump's. He owns it now. He can't blame the woke Democrats. They're not in power. And he ended their programs. They're woke programs. Republicans are in charge. They run the House, the Senate, the White House. So how do you blame the people who you've replaced? And Trump knew that. So his next best option here was just this amorphous concept of diversity, which, of course, again, he would have been more successful at blaming if he didn't already make a big show of literally ending that program. But there's a lesson here for Democrats, too, and that is to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that Trump and Republicans will fill any void with disinformation. There were still bodies in the Potomac when Trump started shouting about dei, meaning nothing is sacred. And this has been a recurring theme for the right. They said that Obamacare would usher in death panels, and our silence on that made the narrative stick. And Democrats got eviscerated in the 2010 midterms. Republicans spent the whole election cycle this time yelling about trans inmates in prison getting gender reassignment surgeries, which we didn't want to dignify with the response. And the election became a referendum on that issue. We laughed off the Hunter Biden tape thing, and Biden crime family became a war cry on the right. And then here we are. We allowed a plane crash to happen without jumping to conclusions, God forbid, only to let Trump turn it into a referendum on dei. So their strategy is clear. Why ours isn't is really inexcusable at this point. But we'll have a chance to show what we've learned, because now, as we engage in a trade war, we're in the same boat. Costs will inevitably rise on all Americans. The nonpartisan Tax foundation found that we're gonna endure increased costs amounting to $830 per household in this country. And in fact, red states are gonna be hit particularly hard because Canada is specifically looking to target goods from Republican strongholds. For example, British Columbia's premier has directed the B.C. liquor Distribution Branch to immediately stop buying American liquor from red states and to remove the top selling red state brands from their shelves of public liquor stores. Now, Trump won't be able to defuse responsibility onto anybody else. He owns this move of imposing tariffs, which means he owns the consequences of it. And given the fact that those consequences are gonna be disproportionately aimed at states that voted for him, the pressure is going to be especially acute. So the question now becomes whether we on the left are willing to learn our lessons from the past and message hard and fast. Trump has nobody to blame here for the problems that he's causing, but that doesn't mean he's still not going to try. So it's on the left to make sure that people know that. Next up are my interviews with Senators Warnock, Schiff, and Klobuchar. No lie is brought to you by Armor Colostrum. 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Go to tryarmra.com BTC or enter BTC to get 15% off your first order. That's T R Y A R M R A.com BTC now we've got the US Senator from the state of Georgia, Reverend Raphael Warnock. Thank you so much for taking the time.

[A]

Great to be here with you, Brian.

[B]

Now, you were there questioning RFK Jr in the finance Committee. There was one exchange that I thought was especially telling. Here's a clip of that exchange.

[A]

Mr. Kennedy, you have compared the CDC's work to Nazi death camps. You've compared it to sexual abusers and in the Catholic Church. You've also said that many of them belong. This is a direct quote. Many of them belong in jail. For me, those are disturbing characterizations of the CDC workers that I know who are trying to keep the American public safe every single day. And as you are presented as the nominee for this position, I need to know, do you stand by those statements that you made in the past, or do you retract those previous statements? Senator, I don't believe that I ever compared the CDC to Nazi death camps.

[C]

I support the cdc.

[A]

My job is not to dismantle or harm the cdc. My job is to empower the scientists if I'm privileged to be confirmed. So you retract those statements.

[C]

I'm not retracting it.

[B]

I never said it.

[A]

Well, actually, I have a transcript of me saying that it's a Nazi death camp. Let me read. Your words. Says that the institution, cdc, and the vaccine program is. Your description of their work is more important than the children that it's supposed to protect. And, you know, it's the same reason we had a pedophile scandal in the Catholic Church. It's because people were able to convince themselves that the institution of the church was more important than these little boys and girls who were being raped. That's pretty provocative language. You said in another statement to me, this is like Nazi death camp. Let me finish. I'm just reading your words. I mean, what happens? What happened to these kids? 1 in 31 boys in this country. Their minds are being robbed from them. Yeah. I was not comparing the CDC to Nazi death camps. I was comparing the injury rate to.

[C]

Our children to other atrocities.

[B]

So you asked about his comparison of the CDC to Nazi death camps. He denies it. You show the receipts. Senator, there's a general sense of impunity among Trump's nominees for lying or misrepresenting the truth during these confirmation hearings. Can I have your reaction to that?

[A]

Well, what I can say to you is that, look, the selection of the Secretary for Health and Human Services is serious business. It's literally a matter of life and death. We can't play around with this kind of thing. And so, you know, my. My question wasn't a trick question. I wanted to state for the record, where is he? And it's quite provocative for someone to use the CDC in the same statement, talking about Nazi death camps. And he tried to suggest that somehow his words have been taken out of context. Look at the transcript. It speaks for itself.

[B]

You announced that you would be voting against RFK Jr and so his former running mate, Nicole Shanahan, took to Twitter and responded to you, your tweet. And she wrote, man, do I regret ever helping you. The only reason that you're in that seat is because I sent massive financial support to Shirley Sherrod's C4 to mobilize rural Georgia during the 2020 runoff. I'll be correcting that massive mistake here ASAP. You're awful. Can I have your response to what I view as the oligarchic bent of today's gop, where these wealthy donors have decided that they and they alone are just the general arbiters of who can and can't be in office.

[A]

It sounds like she thinks she purchased my seat. I beg to differ. The people of Georgia elected me in a historic election. In fact, they voted for me five times in less than three years. So I'm very clear about who I represent. I represent the people of Georgia and their interests in my state. The CDC is a crown jewel focused on protecting the American public against disease, against the next pandemic. We've got some 10,000 employees who do incredible work every single day. And they deserve a leader at the CDC who's not a dilettante, who's not a conspiracy theorist, but someone who will be focused on their health, their well being, and I'll be focused on them.

[B]

Do you have any worry that when you see folks like RFK Jr. Who may very well be confirmed as HHS Secretary, when you see other folks who demonize the very agencies that they're setting out to run, and these, to your exact point, are situations where it's life or death for Americans? I mean, Health and Human Services is literally life or death for Americans. When you have the transportation sector, for example, and you have a commercial jet colliding with a military helicopter for the first time in decades, this again, is life or death. And when you have people in these agencies or atop these positions who are hostile to the very agency that they're seeking to lead, does that worry you about. Does that portend something grim about what we're about to see as we move forward into the Trump administration, beyond even the crash that we just saw in the last 24 hours?

[A]

Well, many of these nominees worry me, but I came to this process of advise and consent, which is my obligation as a United States senator with an open mind. There are some of these nominees that I'm open to voting for. I've met with every last one of them who's asked for a meeting with me. But I'm going to take seriously my role of advise and consent to make sure that we've got the best people we can get. Given who this administration is to fill these seats. And I think. I think in a real sense, Brian, the onus of this moment really is not on the Democrats. It's on the Republicans. I think it's so very important that people understand that even when you have the worst nominee, take this Defense Secretary debacle that just went down, even if you get every last Democrat to vote, no, we can't stop a single one of these nominees, no matter how unified we are. It's just plain math. We've got to have a handful of Republicans who will choose nation over party, who will choose the people over some partisan advantage, who will understand that they work for the people of America, the people of their respective states, and not for someone who wants to be a king. That's the moral decision that sits in front of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. And I pray to God for the sake of our country, that they will find the backbone and the moral courage to make the right decision. To that point, so far, I haven't seen too many. I haven't seen any evidence of that.

[B]

To that point, it's clear what they should do. Do you have any indication whether any of these senators will defer to doing what's right versus just blindly offering loyalty to Donald Trump in the sense that he put these people forward, he expects fealty, and expects that the senators in the Republican Party are going to give that to him.

[A]

Well, and that's a fundamental violation of both the substance and the spirit of the American experiment. And in this moment, it's really on all of us to stand up. You know, we have three co. = of government. We don't have a king. And I think we're seeing in real time that elections do have consequences. Donald Trump said he wanted to be a dictator on day one. People didn't believe him. I think you should believe him. He indicated that, you know, he. He seems to think that he doesn't have to follow the law. You see it in these executive orders that were passed the very first day. I mean, think about it. On the very first day of office, before he had slept one night in the White House, he pardoned the January 6th insurrectionists who literally bludgeoned and in some instances killed law enforcement officers, tried to disenfranchise millions of voters across our country by disrupting the nonviolent transfer of power. In a real sense, we should see that there's not much distinction between what happened the first week and what happened the second week. This effort to basically say to every federal employee, regardless of Skill, expertise and experience. If you. We'd rather you resign. And then this effort to literally pull back monies that Congress has already appropriated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Be really clear what you're witnessing. You are witnessing the administrative manifestation of January 6th. This is an attack on the democracy itself. And it is a time for every American, whether you're in office or not, to stand up and say that the republic belongs to the people. You don't own it. You can't buy it, and you can't buy it out.

[B]

Prior to our recording this interview, going back to the tragic crash that happened in Washington, D.C. donald Trump took to the podium and immediately started blaming diversity, blaming dei. He also blamed Democrats. He blamed Joe Biden, he blamed Pete Buttigieg. He blamed the 2020 election. But the crux of what he was blaming was the very concept of diversity. Can I have your reaction to failing to accept any responsibility for his own government and instead trying to vilify as a boogeyman the very concept of diversity and more specifically, brown and black people?

[A]

I've not seen a worse response from a president in the wake of an awful tragedy. One of the roles of that office and its sacred trust is consoler in chief. You know, in the course of a presidency, tragedies are bound to happen. That's. That's the nature of life. And whether it's a terrible accident like what we saw last night or a horrific school shooting, which we see, too many of you people expect their president to show up on the scene and certainly insist that government finds out what happened here. That's our work and get to the bottom of it. But to take a beat and to take a moment and to comfort those who are directly impacted and the nation itself, I know a little something about this because long before I came to the Senate, I was and am a pastor. I've been with families as they've had to confront the unthinkable in their worst tragedies. I can tell you, not just as a member of the Senate, but as a pastor, that for Donald Trump to pile on his politics and his bigoted agenda on top of the pain that these families are already feeling is way beyond the pale. How about take a moment and express and with some real depth the pain that people are feeling in this moment, and then let's get to the bottom of this. That he would use this moment when bodies are still literally on the bottom of the Potomac and families are being notified that he would use this moment to advance his agenda of attacking DEI and attacking Democrats speaks volumes. And not Only is it shameful, quite frankly, is dangerous. The reason why we have the safest aviation system in the world is because all prior presidents, Democrats and Republicans, have left politics out of this kind of investigation. He should do the same.

[B]

I want to take kind of a step back and take this to more of a 30,000 foot view. The right, it feels for as long as I've been paying attention to politics, has operated with a monopoly, an effective monopoly on Christianity in this country. And yet right now they're engaged in what I would consider deeply unchristian behavior. That's something that you can obviously speak on much better than I can. So what is your reaction to seeing a party that on one hand beats its chest as the party of Christian values, whose first acts in office right now are to strip away grants that fund Medicaid to feed low income folks and sick folks and older folks, Meals on Wheels programs to serve homeless veterans and effectively to rip apart families in service of these mass deportations, which are very much not only for criminals, as was promised.

[A]

People's religious claims are just that. They are their religious claims. I won't speak to that. But I will tell you that their policies bear false witness against the God I know. I'm a Matthew 25 Christian. Jesus said, I was hungry and you fed me. I was sick and I was in prison and you visited me. I was a stranger, that is an immigrant, and you welcomed me. And the Scripture says, some will ask, lord, when were you hungry? When were you a stranger, an immigrant? When were you in prison? When were you sick and needed health care? And the answer came in, as much as you've done it unto the least of these, you've done it also unto me. And so that is my litmus test for one's faith, the depth of one's faith. I think the litmus test for one's faith is the depth of your commitment to the poor, the marginalized. That's the gospel that I read, not only in the New Testament. It is the spirit of the prophets, Micah, who said, he has shown you, O mortal, what is good and what does the Lord require, but that you do justice, love, mercy or kindness, and walk humbly. Imagine that. Walk humbly with your God. And so many of the politicians in the public square today suffer from what Martin Luther King Jr. Used to call a high blood pressure of creeds and an anemia of deeds. In other words, their walk doesn't match their talk and their policy doesn't line up with their faith claims. And in a moment like this, I think we ought to be centering human dignity. My faith guides me and my work every single day. But I don't use my faith, by the way, to lord it over other people who have other faith traditions or who claim no faith at all. Because when I talk about justice, mercy, compassion, love, empathy, faithfulness, kindness, humility, those are the values of my faith. That's what informs my work, not the doctrines. I don't try to impose that on all 11 million people that I represent in Georgia, but those those values, I think are resonant in all of the great faith traditions and those who claim no particular faith tradition at all. I love this American experiment where we have the freedom of religion, but we're not a theocracy. And I can tell you this, this pastor who is profoundly and deeply committed to my faith, has no interest in living in a theocracy, Muslim, Jewish or Christian. I love this grand American experiment where you have the freedom to express your faith, you respect the traditions of others, those who claim no faith tradition. And I think the great experiment, the great test of our faith, is our ability to make all of that happen. We live in our faith, we live under the law, and I pray for the day when we'll learn to live with one another.

[B]

Well, that's the perfect place to leave off. I appreciate the inspiring words here. I know my audience does too. Senator Warnock, thank you so much for taking the time today.

[A]

Great to be with you. Keep the faith.

[B]

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[C]

Great to be with you.

[B]

So, in the immediate aftermath of the Kash Patel hearing, I do want to turn your attention to a moment that was especially striking in terms of your exchange with cash.

[C]

Patel, I want you to turn around. There are Capitol Police officers behind you. They're guarding us. Take a look at them right now. Turn around. I'm looking at you. You're talking to me. No, no. Look at them. I want you to look at them if you can, if you have the courage to look them in the eye, Mr. Patel, and tell them you're proud of what you did. Tell them you're proud that you raised money off of people that assaulted their colleagues, that pepper sprayed them, that beat them with poles. Tell them you're proud of what you did. Mr. Patel. They're right there. They're guarding you today. Tell them how proud you are.

[D]

That's an abject lie and you know it. I never, never, ever accepted violence against law enforcement. I've worked with these men and women.

[C]

As you know, you, my entire life.

[D]

And I did not make it so.

[B]

What did you make of the fact that he wouldn't turn and face the people who were attacked by the very insurrectionist who he helped glorify with a January 6th anthem, the same anthem, by the way, that he pretended to be completely unfamiliar, familiar with?

[C]

Well, he couldn't look them in the eye, these officers who were protecting him even in that moment, whose colleagues at the department were viciously attacked by people in a choir that he was promoting. And earlier in the hearing, he had tried to distance himself from it by saying he didn't know anything, he didn't have anything to do with this. But of course he did, and he had been very proud of it. And he had gone on Bannon's show to talk about how he and others had gone to the studio and made this recording and digitized it, and it was going to hit number one on the billboards. And he was so proud of promoting this thing of people who pepper sprayed police on that day and beat them and threatened them with Knives, among other things. He was proud of it. But he wasn't so proud in the committee room today. And he wouldn't turn around to these officers. He wouldn't tell them he was ashamed of what he did. He wouldn't tell them he was proud of what he did. He didn't have the courage to even look him in the eye.

[B]

There were numerous instances where Kash Patel did appear to lie under oath. Chief among them by pretending that he was unfamiliar with the January 6th insurrectionist who created that anthem, but also pretending not to know who a podcast host was, who he appeared with eight times, refusing to answer whether or not he said he wants to turn the FBI into a museum to the deep state. Do your colleagues on the right have so little regard for their own advice and consent role that they're willing to just be lied to, all because this is a Republican nominee?

[C]

Well, I guess time will tell whether a sufficient number of them will reject this plainly unqualified, disqualified person. You know, I tried my best at the end of the hearing to appeal to my colleagues by saying, how is it that we even got here where we're considering someone so clearly unfit for this job when we've had other people like Chris Wray and others in the past who had great experience, who had integrity? How has it come to this, the Cash Patel? And the reason it's come to this is he rose with lightning speed through the first four years of Trump because he was the guy who would say yes to Donald Trump when everyone else would say, no, no, can't do that. That's unethical, that's unlawful. I won't participate in it. I'll quit before I'll do that. Cash Patel is the guy who said, yes, yes, yes. What else can I do for you? That's why he's risen so fast. That's the ticket to progress in Trump world. Which is the bigger the sycophancy, the faster you rise. And we'll find out soon. Because in addition to Patel, there was Tulsi Gabbard today and RFK Jr. Is the Senate going to say yes to these patently unfit candidates for high office? If they do, it will bode very poorly for what the future is going to look like.

[B]

Can you give us some insight into what's happening behind the scenes when you have someone like Kash Patel, someone like Tulsi Gabbard, someone who is so aggressively anti science, like RFK Jr who are speeding their way through these confirmation hearings among your Senate Republican colleagues? Because I understand why they're not gonna say anything publicly for the same reason that these people got nominated for their positions in the administration. By kowtowing to Trump, by proving their fealty to Trump. These Republicans are in the same boat. None of them wanna be primary. They all know that they have to kiss the ring and grovel at his feet. But at a bare minimum, are you hearing anything behind closed doors from these people? Are they just so bought into this bit that they couldn't dare utter a word, even in private? Something that might go against the grain when it comes to Trump?

[C]

Look, I think privately some will acknowledge their deep concern over these nominees, but I think what they're watching is what happens to those who stand up to him. And Trump has been very successful since he got into politics of punishing his enemies, of ginning up primary challenges to them. And, you know, Steve Bannon and his ilk are out there riling up the MAGA base to go after anyone who doesn't approve. Everyone. And so that's what they're dealing with. But, you know, I think at the end of the day, all of us in elective office have to ask ourselves, why are we in this job if we're not willing to stand up and say, hey, you're firing on these inspector generals violates the law? If we're not willing to say, your effort to amend the Constitution by executive order violates the law. If we're not willing to say, this guy you've nominated to run the FBI, I wouldn't trust him to walk my dog. Then it's good luck for us with our democracy. I mentioned at the end of the hearing today that history is littered with countries that saw their democracy disappeared and didn't seem to be noticing it while it was happening. And we should witness what's happening, and we need to do something about it.

[B]

Senator, you were mentioned in Kash Patel's book where he spells out his enemies list, the same enemies list that he pretended not to have written about, not to have published. Do you, A, buy his assurances that he won't weaponize the doj, and B, buy his assurances that he won't weaponize it against you?

[C]

No. I don't think any of us can take anything he says, frankly, for granted or accepted. He contradicts himself all the time, denies saying what he said before, claims not to remember it? No, this is not the guy you want to trust to have a truly independent FBI. And the reality is, of all these positions, FBI may be the most unreviewable as the director we're not going to get to see what cases he declined that should have been investigated by the FBI but got declined because they were pals of Donald Trump or family members of Donald Trump or friends of Donald Trump or maybe friends of Elon Musk or who knows. We're not going to see, you know, those kind of decisions to protect Trump world. We're going to see potentially actions taken against the president's enemies. But we can count on one thing with Kash Patel, and that is he will tell the public whatever Donald Trump is, wants him to say about why someone was investigated. So, no, we can't trust anything he has to say. That's why he is being chosen by Donald Trump to lead the FBI. He wanted his own Roy Cohn at the Justice Department or the Bureau. And if Republicans go along with it in the Senate, he will have that at the FBI.

[B]

You know, taking a step back in the lead up to the election, one of the issues that I focused on especially was Schedule F, the Schedule F portion of Project 2025. The reason being that if can be successful at eliminating career civil servants and replacing them with political appointees, then you have the whole government basically becomes an apparatus of one man, of Donald Trump. So do you have any worry that with folks like Cash Patel as FBI director, with somebody like Russ Vogt as OMB director, that Republicans will be able to rig the rules of government from the inside so as to prevent Democrats from even having a fair shot to ever succeed at winning again in the future, not talking about the damage that they can, that they can. That they'll be able to rot against the government from the inside Right now, during these four years, I think that's somewhat of a foregone conclusion, but just in the aftermath of that, by basically remaking the government in his mold, that it won't leave us with the opportunity to have a fair shot moving forward? If the entire federal government apparatus, the entire executive branch, is just a political.

[C]

Arm of Donald Trump, that is certainly the goal, which is not even one party rule so much as one man rule. He does want to do exactly as you're describing, convert the whole federal workforce into his political arm, into an arm of his agenda by pushing people out, by purging people at the top levels of these agencies who are getting notices. Your services are no longer required or just being outright fired because they were doing their jobs properly. And that's not what Donald Trump is interested in. This effort to get federal employees to quit is so that he can replace them with more sycophants it is all part of a broad strategy. Sadly, I think that Trump and his minions learned from their failed experiment four years ago how to do it better this time. And, and the question is, will the Congress stop it? Will the courts stop it? Is our democracy strong enough? And we're about to find out. We're about to find out. Now, I happen to think that this week may be an illustration where this freeze on federal funds was so ill considered, so ham handed that the opposition was immediate. Ordinary people saw that it was going to affect their lives, whether they could get their health care, whether they can get their housing, whether they could get their financial aid, and they were forced to backpedal. How often they're going to overreach like that, we'll find out. But we're going to have to pick our battles. We're going to have to fight them hard. We're going to win some of them. We have to hold on for two years until we can take back the Congress of the United States and put a real check on this, this rogue administration. But that is exactly what he's trying to do, is turn this into one man rule.

[B]

Let's finish off with this. I know that you of all people are under no delusions about the extent to which Republicans in the House and the Senate will offer no bulwark to Trump's worst excesses. But do you think that there is a red line for these people? And again, these are people who are so groveling right now that they are even ushering through, shepherding through aggressively unqualified people like RFK to oversee the health apparatus of the entire country that their kids have to grow up in, too. So they're on this plane that they're trying to crash at this moment in time. So I'm wondering, even for people like that, people so overtly deferential to Trump, is there a red line even for them, realistically speaking, where you think that they would actually have the spine to stand up to somebody like Trump?

[C]

I think so. I hope so. Matt Gates was a bridge too far for the Republicans in the Senate. I hope we see other indications that there's a willingness to say, okay, you've got to be kidding. There's no way we're going to go there. Yeah. But we will find out, you know, what we've seen. And this is like the boiling frog phenomenon on of the water and the pot going up and up and the frog not noticing that he's boiling to death. If you look at the beginning of Trump, the first year or years of his first administration. There were some people of stature, the Secretary Mattis, the Christopher Reyes and others who either held things together or they resigned. You had others, frankly, like Bill Barr, who auditioned for the job as Attorney General by trashing the Mueller investigation. This was his job application. Even Barr, who crossed so many ethical lines, finally found one he couldn't cross, which is he wasn't willing to lie about the election. But that looks kind of quaint now if you watch the hearing today of Cash Patel. You know, very few of the Republicans had any problem with Patel's inability to even say that Joe Biden had won a 2020. And so the bar has gotten lower and lower and lower and lower. Is there a point at which my colleagues will say, okay, that's enough to protect myself and our kids and their kids and our country, our planet, I can't go along with this anymore? Is there a point where they'll get to that showing of courage? I hope so. I hope so. And I would be more optimistic about it if experience hadn't been such a sad guide because we have seen the floor lower and lower and lower.

[B]

Well, from your lips to God's ears. Unfortunately, I think we're going to be put in a position where we're going to see where that thesis is kind of tested out. So with that said, I appreciate what you did in that hearing and your willingness to fight, to go toe to toe, to not roll over. I think that's exactly the kind of energy that we need moving forward, especially in the face of lawlessness, that thrives in the absence of that kind of pushback. So with that said, Senator, thank you so much for taking the time today.

[C]

Great to be with you. Thank you for everything you do.

[B]

Now we've got US Senator Amy Klobuchar. Thank you so much for taking the time.

[D]

Great to be on again, Brian.

[B]

So I'm gonna show a quick clip here of the sparring back and forth between you and Kash Patel at the latest and FBI Director confirmation hearing.

[D]

Did you say that the FBI headquarters should be shut down and reopened as a museum of the deep state? Chairman, are we allowed to go an extra time?

[C]

Let's see you got you get a second round before I call on.

[D]

Senator, he just answered the question. If he said that the FBI headquarters where they investigate cybercrime and terrorism should be shut down and open as a deep state Chair. The museum. Did he say that the headquarters should be shut down?

[B]

Mr.

[D]

Chair, I deserve an answer to that question. He is asking to be head of the FBI. And he said that their headquarters should be shut down.

[B]

Mr.

[D]

Chair.

[C]

Parliamentary inquiry.

[A]

You got anything you want to say.

[D]

Mr. Patel, before I go on to senator Lee?

[A]

Simply this.

[B]

If the best attacks on me are going to be false accusations and grotesque mischaracterizations, the only thing this body is doing is defeating the credibility of the.

[D]

Men and women at the FBI. I stood with them here in this country in every theater of war we have. I was on the ground in service of this nation. And any accusations leveled against me that I would somehow put political bias before the constitution are grotesquely unfair. And I will have you reminded that.

[C]

I have been endorsed by over 300,000 law enforcement officers to become the next.

[B]

Director of the FBI.

[C]

Let's ask them.

[D]

Mr. Chairman, I am quoting his own words from September of 2024. It is his own words. It is not some conspiracy. It is what Mr. Patel actually said himself. Facts matter.

[B]

Obviously, you can see that he is wholly unwilling to even engage and answer the most basic of questions. And yet, at the same time, there was effectively no pushback by any of your Republican colleagues, basically showing that he's gonna have little, little in the way of an obstacle to being confirmed. Is there any sense among your Republican colleagues that the performance that he put forward at the confirmation hearing or his inability to answer clearly or even tell the truth in some instances is disqualifying? Or is the whole whole ball game here just showing blind fealty to the God king? And that's it.

[D]

I said on that inauguration day when I had had my moment, because I cheered that committee for a year, I said, there are three branches of government that are equal and that the power in that room, the huge power in that rotunda, came from the people outside of the rotunda. And I meant it. And what has really, really surprised me is how on so many of these nominees, our Republican colleagues are just going along with the administration instead of stepping back and saying, do we really want a guy like Keshe Patel who has. Basically, when you look at the questions that I asked, that Adam Schiff asked others, he would dodge the question. He would not tell the truth. He would say he didn't remember. He would say he needed it in context. At one point, I actually asked him if he had actually said that the FBI headquarters should be shut down and turned into a museum. He wouldn't even answer that. He said it. I had record sites for every single thing. I asked him. At another point, I asked him, didn't you say that the officers, the officers with over 100 of them injured that appeared before the January 6th committee were not telling the truth, that they were lying. Didn't you say that? He said, I need contacts. I came back at him with context. And so many of my colleagues had the same experience time and time again. So, no, I believe in the FBI, believe in FBI, which stands for, of course, fidelity, bravery, integrity. Right. That is their motto. And there are 38,000 hard working people that work at the FBI that take on the most complex cases of our time. They deserve a leader who is worthy of them, and it is not Cash Patel.

[B]

Senator, what does the FBI look like in the instance where Kash Patel is confirmed and he goes full bore into doing Trump's bidding? What is the natural conclusion of that? What does the FBI in practice look like in the event that Cash Patel does turn the FBI into a weapon, into a cudgel that Trump will use to wield against Democrats and his political opponents?

[D]

Well, if you remember, you remember the days of Hoover, the FBI director has a lot of power, and that power is often wielded in ways that you don't know because it's behind closed doors. They have to decide whether to take on investigations, shut down investigations and the like, you would hope. And there are a number of hardworking career people that will be there no matter what. However, as one of my colleagues, Alex Padilla, asked today, there were reports that they would bring in a number of people that would be political appointments around Cash Patel, which would mean you would break that tradition. Yes, the director is appointed for what should be 10 years. But of course, Christopher Wray just got fired by Donald Trump because while he himself resigned, Donald Trump had made very clear that he didn't want him to stay in that job. And he, of course, had fired directors in the past. So the problem is, if they start putting more political people that are not simply a well established director who spans different administrations, you completely break down that apolitical nature of the FBI and the hard decisions that they have to make all the time on cases. One of my favorite moments actually in the hearing was when we only had three minute rounds at the end, which is somewhat ridiculous. And I had said that I wanted to, I had a question and he said, well, I need more context. And I said, well, I won't have time to give you that context. I'll put it on the record. And he then said, you only have two minutes remaining. And I, I said, wow. But I also wanted to say, really, two minutes for a 10 year job?

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

Two minutes for a 10 year job. That is how important this job is. And it should be taken as a sacred trust of all men and women in law enforcement, not just at the FBI, but in the local levels as well. And obviously, my view is he is not up for the job. And that is why Bill Barr, the former Republican attorney general appointed by Donald Trump, respected by my colleagues on the Republican side, many, many comments they made when he left. He once said that Cash Patel would be promoted to FBI at the time deputy director over his dead body. That is Bill Barr's words, not mine.

[B]

Senator, you're one of the most bipartisan members of Congress. You are known for keeping your head down and doing the work and getting shit done, even in a body, in a broader body of Congress, of Congress, where there are a lot of folks who are looking to get their TV hits like you are sitting there and doing the work. How do you view the prospect of working with your Republican colleagues in this Congress where it seems like there's so little deference paid to anything other than just fealty to Trump that, that all rules are out the window? Of course, all norms and institutions are out the window. And really everything is just being done, no focus on any of the things they campaigned about, bringing prices down, all that stuff, lowering the cost of rent of housing. And really, it's just full bore into Trumpism, into pardoning January 6 insurrectionists, confirming an FBI director who has an enemy's list, including on which you have Democratic colleagues in the House and the Senate and also former executive branch officials like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. How do you view the prospect of compartmentalizing and working with these people in an environment like this?

[D]

It is on us right now. We took this oath, right, to protect and defend the Constitution. I just took it a month ago when we got sworn in as senators. And we've got to be serious about that. Our job under the Constitution is advise and consent. So I look at it this way. Will we find common ground when we can? Yes. The American people, they were very clear. They want us to focus on cost in that election, right? They wanted change. They wanted change, but they didn't want chaos and they didn't want corruption. That is very clear. Poll after poll. So if there's a way to work with Republicans, particularly in the Congress, on bringing down housing costs, building more housing, on child care, on health care, and doing something about people's claims being denied and prescription drugs, I am all in. And Democrats are all in. But once they start hurting regular people by giving tax cuts for Billionaires at their expense or installing their buddies and making sweetheart deals, or letting Elon Musk just make decisions when he's not elected. And he clearly plays a role in this, and there is no kind of constraint on him. That becomes a problem. Everyone has advisors from the outside come in and help them in government. That's a good thing. But this had better go through the constitutional process because we trump the executive branch in many ways in the Constitution, whether he likes it or not, Article 1 is the Congress, and that gives us the power of the purse. So when they suddenly, an unknown bureaucrat that they didn't even bring in there, but it's just following orders, sends out a memo two pages long that says, we're freezing funds, all loans and grants. Too bad. You know what that means? That means teenagers in cancer studies suddenly don't know what's happening. Moms can't bring their kids to childcare. Firefighters don't know if they're going to get that equipment crap. Domestic violence shelters don't know if they're going to be able to bring in new clients or people that need help. Right. That's what happened. And then we made, I will give you this example of standing our ground. The Democrats in the House and Senate, we just raised. Holy hell, we did. We went and we called people and we went to the floor and we went on our. Not just national TV and not just podcasts, of course, our favorite. But we also went local with it and so did regular people. And literally the next day they issued a memo saying, oops, we didn't mean that. We're rescinding it. But then their press secretary says, oh, guess what? We really are freezing funds. So it's total chaos. But my point, we are all in this and our job is to find common ground when we can and then stand our ground when we must.

[B]

And to the second part of that, the latter part of that, this idea of standing your ground can. Is there any assurance that you have for folks watching? Because thus far, there is a sense of kind of, I don't want to say, like, cynicism that. Cynicism that we don't. That we don't. That there is a general sense of exhaustion that we don't have really the fight that's necessary right now. And I know it's from the outside. Look, there's no Women's March happening with hundreds of thousands of people taking to the streets. But at the same time, there also is, you know, some doubt as to whether the folks who are in the minority right now. And so I understand practically speaking, there's not much that can be done, but just some assurance that you can give that you are the first and in large part the last line of defense against the worst excesses of this administration.

[D]

We are. And you saw that and I will. Some battles that we have already won, despite the fact that, you know, there is a. We literally have to get four Republicans on these nominations. Matt Gaetz had to withdraw his nomination. That happened.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

We, there's a number of these hearings, especially the Kennedy hearing, where you saw a lot of pushback. We'll see what our Republican colleagues do because of their belief. Some of them actually believe in vaccines and believe in science. Tulsi Gabbard hearing, again, a lot of questions raised there. So you see this pushback, the abortion amendment, they tried to get on. They tried to get in a provision that would have criminalized doctors and hurt families. That were at the very most heartbreaking tales where they're losing their babies at the end of a pregnancy because of a physical issue with the child. These cases, we took that on and we won. We stood together and we won. Those are just the first of many. They rescinded that order. I think you're going to see this come time and time again, and it is not an easy time for anyone. But I think for your viewers and listeners, they need to know, like, we are big time in this. And we've got these incredible new members who have come into the Senate, and that's a big deal. We've got Adam Schiff in the Senate right now. You should have seen him with Cash Patel. Maybe some of you did. We've got Andy Kim out of New Jersey, Alyssa Slotkin out of Michigan, Lisa Blount, Rochester. We've got Angela. Also Brooke out of Maryland. It's really kind of an incredible new energy that's going through this place. And I know that it's going to take time for people to see that, but I want them to know that we are fighting every single day. And what we look at is those midterm elections where we're so close. In the House of Representatives right now, it's like two votes away. And so that creates a lot of opportunities to try to stop real bad things. But it also makes it so that we could actually take the House. And, you know, it's, it's a harder toll. But with Senator Gillibrand leading the Senate Campaign committee, with the work that we can do in the Senate, we also have a chance of winning in the, in the Senate So that is what we are looking at in these next two years as we go forward. And we want people to be with us, but we have to pick our battles. And one of them is clearly when they're throwing people under the bus to give tax cuts for billionaires. One of them is clearly when they are engaging in corruption and firing inspector generals in the middle of the night that watch over taxpayer money. So the reason, part of the reason that people at home are starting to get interested in this and learning about it and watching it is because we're not being silent. Right? We're not being silent. We're finding every way we can get out there to make our case.

[B]

And finally, let's finish off with this kind of on the purposeful dysfunction that we're seeing. Obviously, there was that tragic accident in Washington, D.C. where the military helicopter collided with a regional jet. Donald Trump used that opportunity, without even knowing all of the facts, to immediately begin blaming the Democrats, Pete Buttigieg, the 2020 election, and DEI. So can I have your reaction to him using a tragedy like this plane crash to a immediately start attacking his political enemies?

[D]

It was so tragic because we lost actually a woman from Minnesota, from a small town. And you think about those skaters that are never going to be in their world championships that they dreamed of. You think of the service members who lost their lives. These people perished. And of course, we have to get to the bottom of what happened, and we don't know all the facts yet. I serve on the Commerce Committee that has oversight over aviation. I can tell you right now, Ted Cruz does share it, but there will be a thorough investigation, both as should happen with the agencies that have already stood in. There's someone who spanned the career span, the Democrat, Republican administration, who's there, who investigates these things. And I hope to God she stays there because we have to get this investigated, then we get the facts, then we figure out what changes have to be made. But for him to be using this literally a few hours after we have learned that there are no survivors and that people have died, I just, I don't think you've ever seen anyone in leadership in America, in America, act like that.

[B]

Yeah. And, and of course, we'll see no pushback from the Republican Party more broadly. But I appreciate, I appreciate your thoughts on this and, and the ass especially that you guys are willing and prepared to fight here. So, Senator Klobuchar, thank you again for taking the time today.

[D]

Thank you. It's great to be on. Thanks.

[B]

Thanks again to Senators Warren Oxchiff and Klobuchar. That's it for this episode. Talk to you next week. You've been listening to no Lie with Brian Tyler Cohen, produced by Sam Graeber, music by Wellesley, and interviews edited for YouTube by Nicholas Nicoterra. If you want to support the show, please subscribe on your preferred podcast app and leave a five star rating and a review. And as always, you can find me at brianteller Cohen on all of my other channels. Or you can go to briantylercohen.com to learn more. You know how everything's a subscription now. Music, movies, even socks. I swear. If to continue this ad, please upgrade to Premium plus Platinum.

[D]

Uh, what? No.

[B]

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