BONUS: Behind the scenes of Noble

Summary

Behind the Scenes of Noble: An In-Depth Exploration

Episode: BONUS: Behind the Scenes of Noble
Release Date: December 9, 2024
Host: Matt Scherr
Guest: Sean Revive
Podcast: Noble by Wavland

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Introduction

In the bonus episode, "Behind the Scenes of Noble," Matt Scherr engages in a comprehensive conversation with Sean Revive, the writer and host of the acclaimed podcast Noble. This episode offers listeners an exclusive peek into the creation and intricacies of the Noble series, unraveling the journalistic journey behind one of the American South's most perplexing and haunting cases.

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Discovering the Story

Sean Revive recounts how the Noble case first captured his attention about a decade ago when he moved to Atlanta. An initial encounter with a news snippet about the discovery of over 300 bodies on a property in Noble, Georgia, planted the seed for what would become a landmark investigative project.

Sean Revive [02:26]: "Sometime around the time I moved to Atlanta, about 10 years ago, I saw a snippet of a news story that mentioned 300 bodies found in a property in Northwest Georgia. And it's just one of those stories that I think every journalist who lives in or around Atlanta has on the radar."

Despite its intriguing nature, Sean initially hesitated to pursue the story, deeming it too complex due to the multitude of people involved and the elusive nature of key figures like Brent Marsh, the operator of the crematory at the center of the case.

Sean Revive [03:01]: "It involves a lot of people, and it involved a person who was very reluctant to give interviews. And it just seemed like too complicated."

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Investigative Approach and Challenges

Sean delves into his methodical approach to uncovering the truth, starting with extensive Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests to gather pertinent records from various agencies. Building a comprehensive list of names was crucial, with one of the first significant contacts being McCracken Poston, a prominent defense lawyer associated with the case.

Sean Revive [03:36]: "First, I wanted to get a lot of records. So I put in a bunch of Freedom of Information act requests to any agency I could think of that was involved."

Meeting with Poston galvanized Sean's commitment to the project, leading to numerous interactions and interviews essential for piecing together the narrative.

A significant challenge Sean highlights is the passage of time—22 years since the initial discovery. Memory reliability and the emotional toll on individuals recalling traumatic events posed hurdles in obtaining accurate and heartfelt accounts.

Sean Revive [10:52]: "There's always trouble with memory, trying to get people to go back to sort of go back emotionally to the way they were feeling 22 years ago."

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Central Figure: Brent Marsh

At the heart of the investigation is Brent Marsh, the young and respected operator of the crematory. Sean emphasizes the complexity of Marsh's character, noting his deep-rooted respect within the community and the disbelief surrounding his potential involvement in such a macabre discovery.

Sean Revive [07:24]: "Brent Marsh, really young man who took over the crematory business from his father and his family, had been in the area for many years, has a really incredible, very positive history in the area. You know, everybody knew them, everybody respected them."

Securing an interview with Marsh proved to be one of the foremost challenges, given his elusive nature outside courtrooms. Sean outlines the exhaustive efforts undertaken to reach him, including reaching out to his lawyers, family members, and even writing letters, all while maintaining respect and sensitivity.

Sean Revive [12:44]: "Talking to Brent Marsh was one of our top priorities for sure, because we knew he was so elusive, but he was at the center of the case."

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The Essence of Noble: Beyond True Crime

Matt Scherr probes the classification of Noble within the true crime genre. Sean provides a nuanced perspective, acknowledging that while Noble is grounded in true events and involves criminal elements, it diverges from conventional true crime narratives.

Sean Revive [13:59]: "Yeah, in the most literal sense, in that it's true and involves a crime. There are some things about it that are very different than what you think of as true crime. There's no murder in it."

Noble distinguishes itself by involving thousands of affected individuals rather than a limited group, and by exploring the profound emotional and societal implications surrounding the mistreatment of the deceased. This broader impact redefines the boundaries of traditional true crime storytelling.

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Exploring Deeper Themes: The Living and the Dead

A central theme Sean pursued in Noble is the profound connection between the living and the dead. He wrestles with understanding why society places such significant value on the treatment of the deceased, manifesting in rituals, respect, and emotional bonds.

Sean Revive [08:19]: "I wanted to understand why people care so much about the dead. ... why we respect dead bodies so much, why we have these ceremonies and traditions involving burial caskets."

The podcast delves into diverse reactions from individuals affected by the Noble case, highlighting how personal grief and collective memory intersect with societal norms regarding death and remembrance.

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Crafting the Sense of Place

Noble thrives on its vivid portrayal of Northwest Georgia, a region markedly different from urban Atlanta. Sean emphasizes the importance of setting in the narrative, illustrating the rural landscape, tight-knit communities, and the pervasive sense of interconnectedness among residents.

Sean Revive [15:31]: "The more episodes you hear, the more you realize how connected everybody is. ... So there's no real way to be involved in it. Even if you're an investigator, a lawyer, there's no way to really be involved in the case without making it personal in some way."

This strong sense of place is achieved through in-depth character development and the exploration of local dynamics, making the setting almost a character in its own right within the podcast.

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Transitioning from Print to Podcasting

Sean reflects on his journey from traditional journalism to podcasting, highlighting the differences in storytelling and audience engagement. Unlike print, podcasting allows for a more personal and immediate connection with listeners through vocal narration and intimate interviews.

Sean Revive [16:43]: "This podcast for the writing? I think it would have been different just because you want to sound like yourself. You want to sound like a human being when you're narrating."

He discusses the challenges of maintaining authenticity and managing the technical aspects of audio storytelling, emphasizing the collaborative efforts with producers to create a compelling and sincere narrative.

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Overcoming Reporting Challenges

Addressing the logistical and emotional difficulties of reporting on a case two decades old, Sean elaborates on the meticulous fact-checking process and the delicate balance of invoking past emotions without overwhelming the subjects of his interviews.

Sean Revive [10:52]: "Trying to get people to go back emotionally to the way they were feeling 22 years ago. I think it's tough for anyone to accurately put themselves back in that place."

Despite these challenges, the project benefited from ample documentation and the resilience of interviewees who could articulate their experiences with clarity and depth, even years later.

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Reflections and Future Curiosity

As the series progresses, Sean shares his satisfaction with the answers uncovered throughout the investigation while acknowledging the lingering questions that continue to intrigue him.

Sean Revive [15:02]: "Yes, and I think those answers may come eventually, but I'm always curious to hear more, to learn more."

This openness to ongoing discovery underscores the evolving nature of the Noble narrative and Sean's commitment to thorough journalism.

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Conclusion

In this behind-the-scenes episode, listeners gain invaluable insights into the creation of Noble, from the initial spark of interest to the intricate process of investigative storytelling. Sean Revive's dedication to uncovering the truth, coupled with his exploration of deeper human and societal themes, exemplifies the profound impact of thoughtful podcasting. As Noble continues to unravel the mysteries of one of Georgia's most haunting cases, this episode stands as a testament to the power of perseverance, empathy, and meticulous journalism in bringing forgotten stories to light.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sean Revive [02:26]: "It's just one of those stories that I kept in my pile of stories because it's so unbelievable."

• Sean Revive [08:19]: "Why are people so enamored of people after they die?"

• Sean Revive [15:31]: "There's no real way to be involved in it without making it personal in some way."

• Sean Revive [17:54]: "I'm really proud. I can't wait for people to hear the last episode."

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Final Thoughts

Behind the Scenes of Noble not only illuminates the complexities of producing a true crime podcast but also invites listeners to ponder the intricate relationships between community, memory, and the reverence of the deceased. Sean Revive's narrative journey enriches the Noble series, offering a layered understanding of the human condition amidst one of the South's most enigmatic cases.

Transcript

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[Matt Scherr]

Simple Campsite Media hey everyone, this is Matt Scherr, one of the co founders of Campside Media and a longtime journalist myself as well as the host of the podcast Suspect. I'm here because I want to play you a clip from Inside the Tent, a new behind the scenes show from Campside Media. The basic idea is every week we explore how some of your favorite podcasts are made through interviews with the producers and hosts. It's a great way to learn more about the process and to get a sense of what actually happens in the stud. Today I'm going to be playing you an interview with Sean Revive, who you'll recognize as the writer and host of Noble, the show that brought you here and has been a number one hit for Waveland Media and Campside. Take a listen. I'll get you some more details afterwards. Meantime, you can subscribe to Inside the [e-mail] that's joincampside.com so Sean, let's start from the beginning here and have you tell us exactly how this story first crossed your radar.

[Sean Revive]

Sometime around the time I moved TO Atlanta, about 10 years ago, I saw a snippet of a news story that mentioned 300 bodies found in a property in Northwest Georgia. And it's just one of those stories that I think every journalist who lives in or around Atlanta has in the radar. And it was just one of those ones I kept in my pile of stories because it's so unbelievable. But it also seemed like one of those stories that's kind of too hard to do, which is why nobody's done it until now.

[Matt Scherr]

What made you think it was hard to do?

[Sean Revive]

It involves a lot of people, and it involved a person who was very reluctant to give interviews. And it just seemed like too complicated. It also was quite a while ago. It was 22 years ago when it happened. But at the time it seemed worth a shot anyway.

[Matt Scherr]

Did you have a sense of where you wanted to start when you got this assignment and it became a real thing? Was there. How did you sit down and approach it? Who did you want to go to first to start kind of unraveling this?

[Sean Revive]

First, I wanted to get a lot of records. So I put in a bunch of Freedom of Information act requests to any agency I could think of that was involved. And then I started making lists of names. But the first name that came to mind was the most spectacular name of all, which is McCracken Poston. And he was one of the primary lawyer involved in the case, on the defense side of the case.

[Matt Scherr]

So you go out to meet McCracken, I'm assuming not so long after that.

[Sean Revive]

We did a couple calls. First, I didn't know if this was a story I was for sure going to do, but I think after our first call, I was pretty sure I was going to keep going. And yeah, we met soon after. I'm gonna say within a few weeks or months of our first phone call.

[Matt Scherr]

Was he sick of this story? Was he like, oh, my God, there's more people digging around in this story again?

[Sean Revive]

No, not at all. I wouldn't put it that way. I wouldn't be surprised if he's sick of working on the case, even though he still is. But he. He loves his clients. He loves the family that are represented in these cases. And I think he's really proud of his work on the case as well. And he's just. He's got a few spectacular cases that are, you know, that would make most lawyers careers. And he's got a few of them, and I think this is one of them. I think he's really proud of it and, you know, he's interested in talking about it.

[Matt Scherr]

Did he care that you weren't from the south yourself?

[Sean Revive]

He didn't seem to. I don't know internally if that's the case. But, you know, he's from the area where this took place. And so, yeah, I don't know. I don't know, but I don't think so.

[Matt Scherr]

Describe this part of Georgia, to us, if someone happens to be familiar just with Atlanta or the suburbs of Atlanta, this is a really different area.

[Sean Revive]

Yeah, it's not like Atlanta or the suburbs of Atlanta at all. It's northwest Georgia. It's quite rural. Not a lot of people, not a lot of density. There's beautiful state parks around. There's large properties around. You can have acres and acres out there. And then the few towns around there are very small, typical, like southern downtown with a courthouse in the middle. Everybody knows everybody, that kind of place.

[Matt Scherr]

This is going to be a little bit of an exercise in creative thinking, but I want you to try to describe, without giving too much away, what happened in Noble all those years ago. Just give us a sense of the magnitude of this occurrence. What was this story all about?

[Sean Revive]

Sure. So it started with the discovery of one body. A gas delivery man goes on his normal route. And when he's trying to put some gas in a crematory's tank, which is in this personal property, his family's property, he notices what he thinks is a. It looks like a skeleton, but it's, you know, the site of a crematory. He's not really sure what to think about it, and nothing really becomes of it, even though he reports it to the police, because he's one of those people who just, you know, wants to find, follow the rules. Nothing really comes of it for a long time. But then he sees something again when he returns to the property. He sort of can't believe it. And from there, it just explodes. And the police do eventually come to the property, and what they found is just astounding. Like a really. Just unbelievable, like, literally unbelievable thing, which is, you know, hundreds and hundreds of bodies eventually and becomes, I think, at the time, the most expensive investigation in the history of Georgia.

[Matt Scherr]

So on one level, the mystery is what happened here. Right. Why were all these bodies not disposed of in the correct way? That's sort of the one level of it. And who was responsible. But there's another level here, too, isn't there? There's this human story behind the operator of the crematorium. This guy Brent. Right. This is where the investigation starts to focus.

[Sean Revive]

Yeah, I think the mystery, it all sort of comes down to this guy, Brent Marsh, really young man who took over the crematory business from his father and his family, had been in the area for many years, has a really incredible, very positive history in the area. You know, everybody knew them, everybody respected them, and even today, everybody knows them and respects them. And it was Just no one could understand how this could happen. Especially, you know, with them having all these friends and contacts through work and businesses and the mystery sort of all radiates from there. Yeah.

[Matt Scherr]

What is the question for you, Sean? It's like, you know, we're used to, as journalists thinking about approaching a topic with a question, or sometimes a thesis, or sometimes it's a journey or a quest. What was the animating thing for you with the story? What did you want to understand? What did you set out to understand?

[Sean Revive]

I wanted to understand that question that we just talked about a second ago, why this could happen. But I also wanted to understand why people care so much about the dead. I can understand why people love their loved ones, why they love their parents and their sisters and their brothers and their friends. It's a little bit less clear to me why we, by people are so enamored of people after they die. You know, why we respect dead bodies so much, why we have these ceremonies and traditions involving burial caskets open and closed, whatever your religion may be or whatever your traditions are. I'm curious why people are so particular about them. And this story just involved so many different people with so many different loved ones whose bodies were mistreated. And everybody had a different reaction to it. And I wanted to know why the reactions were so different.

[Matt Scherr]

Do you feel like you know the answer to that now?

[Sean Revive]

I think I know a lot of the answer. I think I know a lot of individuals answers to it. And some of them, some of their answers changed over time because I was reconnecting with people 20 years after it happened, after they first discovered that their loved ones bodies had been mistreated. And a lot of people's answer had changed over time. And I think the podcast really goes deeply into that.

[Matt Scherr]

The writing here in this podcast is beautiful and it's clear that there is such a meditation and interest in the deeper themes there. Was it hard for you to write those sections? Did that come easily or was that tricky?

[Sean Revive]

It was tricky for sure. I didn't know how artful to make it or if we should just sort of get into the plot and characters and move really fast. Me and my editor, producer Johnny Kaufman, just went back and forth a lot and we had lots of great notes from you as well and the other producers. Yeah, it was a process, but it was a really fun process and it felt really, really creative, even though we're dealing with a true story that had some darkness to it.

[Matt Scherr]

I want to talk about some of the reporting challenges here because they're Numerous. And you managed to surmount somehow so many of them. Let's talk about the chronology first. The fact that you're reporting this so many years after it happened, I think that probably has some benefits in terms of people having a more nuanced or thoughtful way of thinking about what happened. They've had time to process it, but it also carries with it its own challenges. And I wonder if you'll talk about that a little bit. What are the big hurdles?

[Sean Revive]

Well, there's always trouble with memory, trying to get people to go back to sort of go back emotionally to the way they were feeling 22 years ago. I think it's tough for anyone to accurately put themselves back in that place. And we had plenty of documentation, you know, news clips, police reports, transcripts from court cases. We had a lot of sort of, like, fact checking ability. But to get someone to sort of say, well, I felt like this on this day, the day that I found out and. Or like, I did this. That moment when I first found out can be a challenge. But we also had a lot of people with great memories, and we also had a lot of people who were very, very emotionally stable and able to talk about an emotionally unstable time in their lives. And it was pretty amazing to hear that. It's pretty amazing to hear them in their calm stage, talk about a stage when they were, like, just going nuts because of how pissed off, angry and sad they were. They were trying to reflect on a time when just after this person they loved so much had died, and then finding out that this one thing that they could do for this, this dead loved one didn't even happen, that it went wrong and they messed up. And that's. That's a pretty tough thing to talk about.

[Matt Scherr]

I want to be really careful here because I don't want to give too much away. But when it comes to Brent Marsh, you knew going in that he had not spoken publicly outside of a courtroom about this case. I guess I have two interrelated questions. One is, how important was it for you to get his perspective? And then, you know, just from a reporting journalistic standpoint, what did you do to try to get him to talk? Take us through some of that.

[Sean Revive]

Sure. Yeah. Talking to Brent Marsh was one of our top priorities for sure, because we knew he was so elusive, but he was at the center of the case. He was the most mysterious person in the whole case. And so we went through a lot of routes. We talked to lawyers, his lawyers and others. We reached out to family. We visited the area many, many Times. We went to other places where we thought he might be. I don't want to get too specific at the moment. And wrote letters. We did a lot. We did. We sort of did everything you could think of a reporter possibly doing without being disrespectful.

[Matt Scherr]

I'm sort of censoring myself here because I want people to hear for themselves what happened, because it is sort of miraculous and fascinating and almost beautiful how it does happen. I wanted to ask you to change directions a little bit about true crime. This is a sort of selfish question because I think about it all the time. You know, what's the purpose of true crime and what does it do for listeners? But I'll start with the first part of this question. Do you consider Noble to be a true crime podcast in any way?

[Sean Revive]

Yeah, in the most literal sense, in that it's true and involves a crime. There are some things about it that are very different than what you think of as true crime. There's no murder in it. I think it's okay to say that. And there's not necessarily any bad people, any bad guys. I think it's very much up for interpretation. I think a lot of people who listen will disagree with that. But it's. It's not necessarily. You're searching for this person who did this horrendous, inhuman thing, and then once you've caught them, it's over. It's different than that. And another thing that makes it different is how many people are affected by this crime. I think a lot of the true crime podcasts that I've heard and that you listen to tend to involve, you know, a small number of people, but this involves thousands.

[Matt Scherr]

Do you think you got the answers to the questions that you were asking at the beginning of the show?

[Sean Revive]

I think for the most part, yes.

[Matt Scherr]

Are there things you still want to know?

[Sean Revive]

Yes, and I think those answers may come eventually, but I'm always curious to hear more, to learn more.

[Matt Scherr]

I want to go back a little bit. I really want you to talk about the sense of place that this podcast has and the different ways it gets manifested. This is a very specific setting, a very specific world, and I'm hoping you can talk about how you made that world come alive in the podcast.

[Sean Revive]

I think we brought the world together mostly through the characters. The more episodes you hear, the more you realize how connected everybody is. And it's because this place is small, not geographically, but there are just not that many people in Northwest Georgia, particularly in the area near Noble. And so eventually, everybody connects in Some way. And so there's no real way to be involved in it. Even if you're an investigator, a lawyer, there's no way to really be involved in the case without making it personal in some way, without it being personal. So many people who had very official roles in this, who also had very personal connections to it. So many people who had to exclude themselves for official reasons because of personal reasons. And I think it's very unusual to see that many people personally involved in the case that they're working on.

[Matt Scherr]

Talk to me a little bit about the difference between print, the world that you come from, and podcasting, which is sort of an adopted art for you. What was the difference with this as a podcast, or another way to ask? This is. Let's say you sat down and decided, okay, I'm going to write this as a magazine article. How would that have been different than.

[Sean Revive]

This podcast for the writing? I think it would have been different just because you want to sound like yourself. You want to sound like a human being when you're narrating. And this is something that I've learned, I think, over time and maybe the hard way. And I think during Noble, I got, you know, much better at sounding, well, just being me, not sounding like me, being like me. And that was with the help of our producers, just being so good at, like, keeping me calm and not nervous when recording. And with the reporting, it's different because you're shoving a microphone near someone's face or in someone's face. And it's not like we were, you know, just surprising people with microphones. We were, you know, we were setting up these interviews in advance, but there's still something very different about someone having a microphone and not having a microphone. And I think in some ways it's very. It makes it more personal, and I think they enjoy that. But also I think they can become a little bit more nervous about what they're going to say because they know it's going to be their actual voice saying it. And so I think as a journalist, you want to be just, like, much, much more welcoming and human than you might otherwise be. Even more so than usual.

[Matt Scherr]

Are you proud of how this one turned out?

[Sean Revive]

I'm really proud. I can't wait for people to hear the last episode, and I can't wait to hear people's thoughts, critiques, concerns. I'm super excited about it. Yeah.

[Matt Scherr]

Sean, thank you so much for coming on and talking about this. I appreciate it.

[Sean Revive]

Thanks.

[Matt Scherr]

Matt, thanks so much for listening to this special episode of Inside the tent. If you like what you've heard, want to catch up on other campsite projects, click on over to joincampside.com that's joincampside.com we'll see you there.

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