Andrea Dunlop (3:29)

Link in our show notes.

Mike Weber (3:30)

And if you are in Seattle or Fort Worth, Mike and I are doing live events the week of launch, which you can also find more information about at the link in our show notes. These events will be free to attend, but please do RSVP so that we can plan accordingly. See you out there.

Andrea Dunlop (3:46)

What was that?

Derek (3:49)

From the director of the Invisible Man.

Andrea Dunlop (3:51)

What's wrong with Daddy? He got infected.

Derek (3:53)

And Blumhouse producers of the Black Phone. Something's happening too. Can you hear me? I can't understand you.

Andrea Dunlop (4:02)

Mommy.

Derek (4:03)

He's changing.

Andrea Dunlop (4:06)

Daddy, is that you?

Derek (4:10)

Wolfman directed by Leigh Whinnell. Rated R under 17. Adamid without parent only in theaters Friday. And that's when I really got in touch, you know, with Detective Webber, who by, I will say, first off, he's godson. Love that man to death. He contacted me the next day after all this came out and he's telling me, you know, hey, watch for these type. This is the type of behaviors they'll do. You know, this is what she said and everything. And I'm still, still in a shock at this point. I'm like, you know, did this really happen? Like, I was still. My mind was blown.

Andrea Dunlop (4:46)

It must have felt like, like you're suddenly in a horror movie, right? Like it's just like you thought you're in a normal movie and now you're just like, oh my God, I'm in a horror movie and I didn't know it.

Derek (4:56)

Exactly. That's what it felt like it was like your life just completely did a, you know, 180. It's like, what is going on? And they go and interview her a couple days, two or three days later, and come to find out. I also found out that she had two other empty prescription bottles in her purse, or not empty. That there's two prescription bottles in there. Both of them which she had gotten filled, washed at the cook's pharmacy while she was in there. One was a 30 count and one was a 60 count. The 30 count was empty. And I think the 60 count had, like. I think. I want to say 15 pills left that disappeared in three, three and a half days.

Andrea Dunlop (5:37)

Oh, my God. Oh, she got them filled while she was there. So they knew. Oh, my God.

Derek (5:44)

She said that she only gave, you know, one or two to the youngest while they were in there, but we really don't know how much she gave her of those. Come to find out, she had probably given her roughly about. I want to say it was close to 48 adult Benadryl in those three and a half days. So that's why she was. So when she was down, she was really down. Apparently, all this time that I thought I was losing her, she was being. Come to find out, the eldest one, she was 12, and she knew something was off. So when I started saying things, she's like, I had an idea. I had an idea. She's like, I was wondering why she was hiding this medicine under the bed or why she was doing this. Come to find out, she was given the twins clonidine during the day so they would sleep. That's. There was two empty bottles of clonidine under the mattress. And so I don't know exactly what all she was giving her. Supposedly she was giving her some of her headache medicine, too, which was fior set. I know that the oldest took that. So when I went and saw Dr. Kaufman, she's like, hey, I want you to get with her the oldest neurologist. But I think it's best that we start trying to wing her off her medicine. The oldest one, she's like. Because I don't think she needs any of it. So I got with her neurologist, and she. They're like, yeah, start weaned her off a month later. Actually, I take that back. Two weeks later, no medicine. And to this day, she has only grown and blossomed. She missed out on a lot of her childhood. So this was all happened in June. We was on our way back from Thanksgiving, and she tells me, we get to Talking, you know, the twins are in the back seat asleep, and she's up here talking to me. And she's like, we get in the whole subject and about the whole CPS thing, and she's like, you know, kind of upset with me and all. But then she's like, dad, I want. Like, she made me do this. I'm like, made you do what? And she's like, she made me tell CPS that she was gone to Dollar General. I can't remember if she was going to get bread or whatever. And while she was gone, the. The youngest had gotten into the medicine. And I was like, yeah, that's. That was the story. She's like, that's not what really happened. I was like, well, what really happened? She said, we were. We. She was there, the youngest. We were all in the same room. She was sleeping and had left a pill bottle out and the youngest had got it. She's like, I noticed she was acting off, but I didn't know any different. She's like, then we fell asleep and we woke up, she was acting really strange, like out of it and just doing crazy things. And then that's when Jessica saw the pill bottle and was like, oh, crap. And she's like, she called the non emergency number poison control, and they're like, you need to take her in to get her checked and so they can pump her stomach. And she's like, that's when she told me I needed to tell them this story, otherwise I was going to be taken away from both of y'all and I would never see y'all again. And so that's why I did that. I didn't know better. I said, baby, I'm not mad at you. Like, you didn't know better. You're a kid. She's like, you know, I knew that she had two boyfriends on the side. I knew that. She's like, she made me keep all.

Andrea Dunlop (9:20)

These things while you two were married?

Derek (9:24)

Yes. She's like, she made me keep all these things secret, you know, otherwise it would cost and I would lose you. And she's, you know, to tell me stories about how she had her go get money from people saying that, hey, can I have money to go get me this? And then bring it back to her so that she could use it. There was a holiday right before all this came out, and we went over to the grandmother's house just because uncle and dad were cooking burgers. And so the oldest one tell, you know, supposedly the oldest one has started her time of the month. So she's. She tells me later on, you know, that that's not what happened, that Jessica was wanting some of the grandmother's headache medicine, and so she had the oldest one go in there and take to the other bat. To her grandmother's bathroom, take pills and bring them back to her. And I'm like, oh, so she had you still in medicine for too? And she's like, yeah, she tried to have me do that a lot. And I was like, I'm so sorry, baby. Like, I'm so sorry. I feel like. And at that moment is what. When it really hit me hard, because I was like, I failed my kids as a parent. I failed as a dad. I did not protect them. And it was hard on me for the longest time, for a while. And, you know, Weber is. You know, he's the one that helped talk me through it, and he's like, they're such master manipulators and narcissists that they are very good at covering it up. And you. You can't be upset at yourself. It's not something that you believe you can trust this person. And then why would they ever lie about this and. Or that even this is even slightly going on? I was like, I know. It's just. As a parent, when that came out, it was like, I failed him, and I didn't protect them, you know, and it was really tough for a while because I felt like a failure as a. As a dad.

Andrea Dunlop (11:21)

And. And did you. At some point, you had a conversation with another dad who'd been through a.

Derek (11:28)

Case right after that? I did, and he talked me through it, and he said, you know, I went through the same emotions.

Andrea Dunlop (11:37)

And this is George Honeycutt, right?

Derek (11:39)

Yes. I actually talked to him the other day when all this. The sentencing came out and everything, to let him know, like, I had to work through that, because as time went on, I was like, you know, I. There's no way for me to see it. She was very good about telling one person one thing and the other person another, and in a way that it would never get back to the two, even if the two talked. It could never. Like, she was a perfect liar. I mean, she had it down to a T. Especially if you were right there with her.

Andrea Dunlop (12:12)

Oh, yes. Yeah. I remember thinking with my sister. So there's a couple of things I want to be sure I say to you. I know this feeling so well. I remember feeling like I could get away from her and kind of start to, like, wrap my heads around the facts. And then I Would go back to her and be like, what about this? What about this? What about this? And like, while I was in person talking, it was almost like reality would just become distorted and I would kind of leave the conversation being like, oh, okay, I guess that made sense. And then like, it didn't make sense, but it's just like you couldn't, it was like I couldn't even hold on to reality when I was with her. Like, I couldn't hold on to what I knew about reality when I was actually sitting with her, when I was actually talking to her.

Derek (13:00)

Nail on the head. I couldn't perfectly. Yes. It was like, like when I look back at it now, like in reality, it's like, why didn't I catch things sooner? You know, there were signs there and.

Andrea Dunlop (13:14)

But I mean, I just, I want to, I want to tell you because I, I hear what you're struggling with and you know, I'm a parent. I have a six year old and a two year old and I, if I found out something horrible had been happening to them under my roof, I sure, I would go through all those same emotions. And I think that's really normal. And as I'm sure you know from talking to Weber, who's been through more of these cases probably than anyone and has seen how people do react in these situations. You are, you did do the right and protective thing and you did protect your kids. I mean, I can tell you, like, this situation in my family has been going and my sister's never been held accountable despite two investigations and despite years and years and years of incidents with several different kids. And her husband has stood by her through all of it. And it does not matter what evidence you put in front of that man, video evidence, piles and piles of records, multiple investigations brought on by multiple hospitals. He will defend her. It doesn't matter. As many people, unfortunately, who will go down with the ship as will do the hard thing and the right thing and protect their children. And I can tell you that my niece and nephew have suffered. My niece has almost died. It's like, it's not an automatic thing. You would think, you would think, I think being in your position, you know how that feels. You know what it's like to be confronted with that information. You know how horrified you were. You know, you did the right thing. It's really hard to envision how someone could be presented with compelling evidence and do the wrong thing. But many of them do. And they become, I think, not just enablers of abuse. I think at certain point they Become part of the abuse. Right? They're. They're the people who are. They're contributing to it. Right? And. And you can see how this goes. I mean, it's like anybody who questions them becomes the enemy. And so, you know, if the. If the dad of the kids is not protective, there's nothing anyone else can do, you know, unless. Unless there's a successful criminal investigation, which. Unless Mike Weber shows up, you know, and unless that you have the right D.A. i mean, the police in my sister's case did do a pretty thorough investigation, but it just was, you know, and that's like a whole other story. But I just. I. I wanted to say that to you because, like, you did do the right thing. And I know this is very fresh, like, this all just happened. So I. I hope that, like, you know, as you go forward, and I know you've connected with some other people who've been through cases, and, you know, George Honeycutt, who's wonderful, and, you know, I think that's why it's so important to talk to other people, is because, like, you do need that perspective. Like, you did do the right thing, and there isn't any way you could have known. And we all trust the people. We trust our partners. We trust our sisters. We trust our family members and our friends. Like, you can't. You can't go through life not doing that. And I think that is one of the hardest things, is that, like, you get out the other side, and now you can't trust people the way that you used to. And that's a whole other challenge that you now have to deal with. But, like, I just really want to say that to you, like, this story, like, you did the right thing, and you did it right away. You know, you didn't require months of convincing. You didn't require another investigation with another child. It's really, like, you were protective, and your kids are lucky to have you.

Derek (16:32)

I think. I think, honestly, what helped me really catch on is everything I'd already been through. And once I started getting clear of the. Being upset with myself, right away I started coming out of my depression, and everything. Everything. It all started adding together, and I. You know, it hit me, and it's like, I've got to do. Whether I failed my kids or not. I. You know, I didn't do my best to protect them. But from this point forward, I'm gonna make sure that I never fail them again. I'm never gonna. You know, I'm gonna protect them to the best of my ability. And I want to give them the best childhood that I possibly can because they endured something that 99.9, you know, most people don't even know. Or something that kids shouldn't have to go through for somebody else's attention, for somebody else to have attention or want the, you know, and I look back and I believe that's what most of it was. She wanted the attention. You know, we would do the epilepsy walks and stuff and we would, they would be entered into them and she was looking into make a wish. And it was, it was for the attention. And I'm like, I never wanted attention in my life. Even if I did, I don't think I could want it to the point of hurting a kid, my own kid. There's never anywhere in a million years I could see myself harmon one of my own kids, much less any kid for my own well being. And that's what it boils down to. But the longer it went on, the more clear I got and the more I just wanted to really, to this day, I want to do everything that I can to help bring awareness. And even if I can just help two or three kids, that's two or three kids that get that much more of their childhood back. It hurts me to know that anybody goes through this, you know, kids don't deserve it. And looking back on it, that was the hardest part, like with the oldest one is she knew the more it went on, like the older she got a something, you know, I don't feel like I need this medicine, but mom says I have to take it or this is gonna happen. You know, she told me about an incident. The only time that I really thought I saw her have a. Where I got more of a glimpse of a seizure. She had had a shoulder injury and it'd been bothering her and she started freaking out. And apparently what I was told was it was from the pain of that that threw her into a seizure. So because she started having a seizure, she gave her the rectal medicine. It's like the rescue meds. And come to find out afterwards the oldest told me, she's like, no. She gave me a couple pills that it helped for the pain. And I didn't like the way it made me feel. I don't even, I don't know what it was. And she's like. So I, I didn't even know. I didn't like the way it made me feel. I didn't know where I was. Like, it just, it was making me just feel weird and I was just it made me shake. And I'm like, oh, okay. So I'm like, I am so sorry, sister. I wish I'd have known.

Andrea Dunlop (19:41)

Yeah.

Derek (19:41)

She's like, you had no way of knowing, dad.

Andrea Dunlop (19:43)

Well, and she was, you know, you kind of mentioned this before of like, you know, they are such good manipulators, and they have this way of like, telling one person one thing and telling another person another thing. And then sort of like, especially when you're talking to kids who are obviously very, very much under their mother's influence, but with, like, her older daughter, you know, she said, this is something we've heard from survivors a lot, right? Is that, like, their parent is telling them, you really are sick, but you need this because of this thing, or you'll die, you know, or you have to tell the doctor this or you have to, you know, lie about this or do this other thing, because otherwise, you know, you'll get taken away from me. Or someone will take, you know, and really just make them really fearful of telling the truth. And they sort of have this. Yeah. Like, thing of like, they're making sure that people don't, you know, their kids don't say what's really happening because they're terrifying them of what will happen if they do. So it's really, really sad.

Derek (20:37)

And, you know, and that was the part that hit me is the oldest one. There was a lot of sports that she wasn't allowed to play because, oh, she had, you know, these restrictions because of she might have seizures and the heat might make her have them, or she gets hit just right, it might make her have them. And so there was a lot she missed out on most of her childhood. You know, granted, she still has some. She's, you know, now a teenager, but she didn't get to experience going and staying the night at friend's house and having those sleepovers, slumber parties and everything like that. And so I'm just trying to give them the best life that I can now, you know. And as all that came out, then it moved into the DA's office, and that was a struggle within itself. That was the next battle.

Andrea Dunlop (21:27)

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Derek (24:52)

Yes, she gets arrested, Weber gets a, a warrant together. Then once she gets arrested, she gets bailed out and gets sent to the DA and from there, you know, Weber told me, he said, you know, it can take time. These things aren't just a few months and we're done. I start out with one da, then apparently she moves offices so I get a new one. The first one I had, she, you know, she would stay in contact. She's like, hey, just checking in. Any new news that you've heard? This is where we're at right now. The new one. I heard from him when he called me to tell me that he was my new da. And then I didn't hear from him for another six, seven months once I started really calling him.

Andrea Dunlop (25:35)

Wow.

Derek (25:36)

He wanted to. At first it was, you know, these types of cases are hard to try and this very well could end in probation. You know, I just wanted you to be prepared. You know, we gotta have, we gotta have enough facts and everything. And he was wanting to really play it off like it was a probation case. And I'm like, I'd been doing some research on the side and I joined a group with other people that have gone through this or going through this. And I'm like, I know that a lot of this does end in probation. I know that a lot of them walk away and the ones that don't, they get a couple years. I know that, but I know that we also have a lot of evidence in this one.

Andrea Dunlop (26:15)

Yeah, this case is actually quite a lot more straightforward than a lot of cases. We talk about like the induction part and the poison part is like there's blood tests and they found the pill. It's like they have a lot of like, much more clear cut evidence than sometimes you sort of have something where, yes, the overall picture, if you're able to look at that, then that is very clear that there's abuse. But you don't have like this incident that people can just easily wrap their heads around. Like she was poisoning the kids. She was Giving them, you know, 48 pills of Benadryl, what have you, and causing these symptoms. And they could have died as a result. Like, it's a very straight line. And I know, you know, with many of Mike's cases, mental health and by proxy cases, they. It's not quite that straight. Right. So it is. It did have that going for it.

Derek (26:59)

Well, you had heard Mittens to it. Yeah.

Andrea Dunlop (27:03)

Right. Because she made some admissions during her interview with Weber. Yeah.

Derek (27:06)

You had the evidence in the purse. You. I mean, she straight up said she did, you know.

Andrea Dunlop (27:11)

Right. Strong case. Yeah.

Derek (27:14)

And you start getting all this stuff adding up more and more. But it was almost like the DA was uninvolved. It was just. It was another case. Now, granted, I know they're busy. I know they got, you know, big caseloads, but. Or big workloads, but it was almost felt like for the longest time that it was thrown on the back burner, you know, again, another continuance. Another continuance. It just kept pushing out and kept pushing out. And I'm like, hey, why do we keep pushing out here? And I was giving him names that I. People that were close and I thought maybe beneficial they had information and come to find out he wasn't. I was finding out he wasn't talking to these people. And so at one point, I had had enough. So we'd got her, she went in there and she open pled guilty. They'd offered her a plea deal of 10 years. I knew she wouldn't take that. She thinks she's walking away probation.

Andrea Dunlop (28:12)

So open plead means you're pleading guilty, but you're not agreeing to the sentence they're offering. You're just going to say I'm pleading guilty and it goes to sentencing. Is that basically.

Derek (28:22)

I think so. She no to the plea and she went in and said I'm guilty. But to open plea, she didn't want a jury trial. So she pretty much open pled guilty to the judge. Where once they do that, they do what they call a PSI pre sentencing investigation. So they pretty much, they have another investigator, go through a context. Everybody and he writes down, he's neither for the defendant or the victim, he's for the judge. And what he does, he puts this story together for the judge. And he's not trying to make one side look better than the other. He's putting it together and then putting what he has seen from it and what he thinks. And pretty much that's the whole trial for the judge. So you don't have to Go in there.

Andrea Dunlop (29:12)

Who does this? Is this, this law enforcement? This is a DA that does that.

Derek (29:15)

Law enforcement. So it was a police officer. He works with the judge. You can still bring people in, but majority of it's done so that it's not two, three hour full day, two day case, whatever. It's normally in and out 30, 45 minutes.

Andrea Dunlop (29:31)

Great. Because they're not trying to get to the guilt or innocence verdict. So it's not like the full jury trial that we think of like law and order. It's like it's sort of a pared down process.

Derek (29:41)

Yeah, he's putting, he's putting pretty much the whole scenario together for the judge. The judge can read it before he walks in. And so I'm in communications with this PSI investigator. I'm, I'm not going to use his name, but he's a godsend too. That guy really goes above and beyond for his job, for the work he does. And he put in the time and effort. And this guy right here, Weber, Will Weber, praises on this guy. I mean, this guy, he kind of, he didn't go through the same situation, but they had a, you know, he had similar, but not similar situations. So he kind of understood a little bit. And you know, he was like, he talked to my oldest and he was very, you know, professional and just very calming to her. He got her to talk and you know, he's like. And during her investigation, he's like, hey, you know, once this is all done, your mom may or may not end up going to jail, but if she does, I don't want you to turn around and blame yourself for this. And she, she, she's like, hey, I hope it is my fault. I don't want her to be able out here to hurt any more kids. And he's like that right there. Says a lot about her. He said, that's a very strong kid.

Andrea Dunlop (31:01)

Yeah, that's a brave.

Derek (31:02)

But he, he went above and beyond. And so he, he's doing his investigation. So she's out on bond right now, right? And she breaks her bond. Come to find out, she, her bond was she wasn't supposed to be around any persons under the age of 17 at any given time. Come to find out, she broke it and she was around kids, had gotten this new boyfriend down south and apparently presented a nurse's badge down there and you know, telling them that the court date that she had to come up here to was because of something I'd done, yada yada. So she gets caught for breaking her bond. I'm, like, telling the DA's office, Is there, like, anything we can do to, like, pull her bond back now? Like a bond revocation or something like that? Like, she broke it. Nothing was ever filed by the DA's office to revoke the bond.

Andrea Dunlop (31:54)

And this is. You know, we know from talking to Weber that she was also poisoning other people's kids during this period. In fact, like, it's not just that she had broken her bond. Conditions like this. This seems like such a clear example to me of, like, someone who is dangerous to the community. Right.

Derek (32:11)

I honestly, I feel like. And more and more that it came along, I felt like she was searching for men with kids. So when they originally booked her in on the first. The very first time they booked her in, not. So she was being charged for a class A felony, first degree felony. And then that was on the youngest one, and then the other. The other twin and the oldest one were each a misdemeanor when they booked her in the very first time they accidentally booked her in on the misdemeanors. So when she broke her bond, she got out for a hundred dollars.

Andrea Dunlop (32:50)

Oh, my God.

Derek (32:51)

Got to bail out. So she got out and starting to feel like this DA that I have, he's. It had gotten to the point where when the cases were getting. The court dates were getting moved, he wouldn't notify me about the date of the court being moved. We were watching online to find out. We would know, and I'd call him and be like, the date got moved. Yeah, yeah, I just saw that. I was gonna let you know that. You know, I saw that the other day, and I'm like, I never hear from you. But it was. Oh, you know, sometimes too much is. I'm like, hey, this person right here you need to talk to. Are we gonna call these people from down south? Up these went the mom of the. Of the children down there, you know, the one I'm wanting to. And he's like, well, you know, sometimes too much can be more harming than not. And I'm like, are we not even gonna just discuss it? And it more. So once she pled open. Pled guilty, it felt like it gotten to the point where it felt like, hey, we got her to plead guilty. Now we're just gonna let it be how it is. She gets what she gets from that point. And so I was like, no, I've had enough. I. I was mad, and I called his boss, and his boss, you know, reassured me. He's like, no, he's very he's very into this case. You know, he comes to me asking about it all the time. But I'm gonna get involved on this one too, and I'll sit in on it. From that point on, he was the only one I talked to. Fast forward. When we had the court date for the sentencing, the other DA that I had wouldn't even say a word to me. We went in two or three days.

Andrea Dunlop (34:25)

So he was mad, presumably, that you went over his head.

Derek (34:29)

You could tell very, very clearly because two or three days before that court date, we went in for the pre hearing to go over, like, you know, everything. He didn't say one word to me then. He wouldn't even look at me. And when I left, he wouldn't even. He didn't even. The other two shook my hands. The investigator for the DA's office and the DA I was dealing with, now, they both shook my hands. He did. He didn't even come to shake my hand. And so I'm like, okay, okay, that's fine. Like, you can be upset, but I'm fine with that. Be mad at me all you want, but I'm gonna do what I need to do and what I have to do to get the justice for my kids that they deserve.

Andrea Dunlop (35:11)

Yeah.

Derek (35:12)

You may not have seen. You may not see it that way, or you may think I'm being too much, but I know what they had to endure. And I'm not just gonna let you lay down just because she pled guilty now. Well, I've seen what else she can do. Welcome to find out. She breaks her bond again a second time. A second time? Just three and a half months later, after the first time. Three and a half, four months later, this time she's gotten a boyfriend there in the town she lives in.

Andrea Dunlop (35:42)

Another different boyfriend.

Derek (35:43)

A different boyfriend. This one had an older daughter that was around my oldest daughter's age that doesn't have a mother figure and had a little. A younger boy. And come to find out, she apparently had told this, that that girl that if her and her dad ever broke up, she was going to kidnap her so that she could come live with her. She was trying to take her out of state to Florida on a vacation when she didn't even have a car, doesn't have a job. Number two, you're not supposed to be around kids. The boyfriend helped out, helped her get the cops pick her up. And I get after the DA's office, I'm like, are we filing for a bond revocation? Like, this is the second time like you just gonna keep. Okay, the first time. Okay. We didn't file for one, but we also didn't ask for an ankle monitor. Nothing. So that we can keep track that she's not going to. Hey, Walmart, these big places where there's kids all around.

Andrea Dunlop (36:40)

You know, she's just on her own reconnaissance. Yeah.

Derek (36:42)

She's out here walking the streets like you and I, like nothing's happened.

Andrea Dunlop (36:46)

Right. And so. So the people who are meeting her don't have any reason to think that she's a criminal. Right.

Derek (36:50)

Unless you're googling her up and knowing what to look at. And I'm like, we just keep letting this predator walk the streets.

Andrea Dunlop (36:58)

Like she's not treat. They're not treating her like she's dangerous.

Derek (37:01)

Exactly. And I'm like, what else is it gonna take? Is it gonna take her killing a kid before we're like, she's dangerous. So they finally end up falling for it. She gets her bond revoked. So she's sitting in there and we go to this pre hearing meeting. Me and the oldest. Now backtrack. The oldest doesn't. The dad's never been there. So I'm in the process of adopting her. We go in there and they're like, hey, we're gonna talk to her first. You said over here. And then we're through with her. We'll talk to you. I get it. They didn't want us in there at the same time. So if we both went up on the stands, you know, they couldn't say, you know, we discussed everything. We get to walking out. And she goes, dad, they. They brought something up in there. And I was like, what? And they're like, they asked me if I knew who my real dad was. And I told them no. And they said, is it such and such. And she goes, I don't know. And they're like, yeah, that's him. And I'm like, are you kidding me? Then they didn't. So I go in there at this point, I didn't know when I went in there with them. Didn't say nothing to me about it.

Andrea Dunlop (38:07)

We're in the midst of the sentencing hearings now, and they are talking. The lawyers are to. The DA is talking to her before she goes on the stand.

Derek (38:15)

Yes. So we went in two or three days before they have you go in to go over, like, what the setting's gonna be like and just questions that they're gonna kind of prep.

Andrea Dunlop (38:22)

Prep. Okay. So they're prepping 13 year olds for. To go on the stand and they reveal to her the identity of her biological father, which she did not know before.

Derek (38:34)

Well, here's the part that really got me. They didn't then tell me they did it. So I. I call Weber and I'm like, hey, is this something they do? And he's like, that's. That's out of line. Why would they do that? And they didn't ask you first? I'm like, no. If they would have asked me, like, hey, does she know him? I would have told him no. So I call the DA that I'm dealing with now, and I'm like, or he didn't answer. Weber said, hey, I'm gonna text his boss and let him know that you're mad. The DA's boss. I have now his boss. So we're just keep moving off the chain.

Andrea Dunlop (39:06)

Everybody's boss. Yeah.

Derek (39:08)

So I get off the phone and I call the DA I've been talking to and doesn't answer. Five minutes later, he calls me back. I pick up the phone and I said, hey, I have a question. He said, I think I know what your question is. And he's like, man, I apologize. I didn't know that she didn't know. And I feel bad. I said, but here, hang on, hang on. Let me talk for a second. I said, said, if you were in my shoes and you had a child that didn't know certain information, poor, important information, would you rather it come from you or somebody she didn't know? I get it. I get it. And I said, this kid tells you she doesn't know, and you proceed to tell her a name. So I. I'm frustrated. I get off the phone, I call him back a little bit later, and I ask him something, and I'm like, hey, I got one more question on her about earlier. How did you find this information out? And he said, it's what Jessica told us when we. During the psi. That's what she told the PSI investigator was this name. And I said, so, number one, we're getting this information from a habitual liar that's lied about everything, literally come to find out everything out of her mouth was a lie. Number two, you told a 13 year old this name, and that may not even be 100 her dad, and now you got her going down a rabbit hole. And I'm like, you. You got to be kidding me. I'm sorry. I see what you're saying. I was like, so instead of known for 100 proof, you took what a habitual liar said and said, hey, here, here, this is Your dad. Oh, my God. Or your bio dad. He's like, we. It's. It was standard does. It's like standardized question. We have to, you know, we. It's like we're talking to her and we're asking her, you know, where if they try to ask her who you are to her, that she sees you as dad. And I'm like, okay. But when she tells you she don't know, don't keep going. He's like, well, after we said that name. And she's like, oh, okay, we should. We dropped it there. Well, that was too far.

Andrea Dunlop (41:00)

After we'd already said the thing.

Derek (41:01)

Yeah.

Andrea Dunlop (41:02)

We didn't say anything else.

Derek (41:03)

Yeah.

Andrea Dunlop (41:04)

I might say that is wild.

Derek (41:06)

I was like, the moment we got home after that, she's like, hey, will you look this person up on Facebook? I want to see what they look like. I'm like, so, yeah, you did open up a whole rabbit hole. Right?

Andrea Dunlop (41:15)

Because of course, it's like, of course they're going to be curious. Yeah.

Derek (41:19)

And I'm like, so. And come to find out we can't even find this guy. And I'm like, so I had to break it to her that, you know, that may not even be the person. They're not 100 certain, but that came from her egg donor, because I don't refer to her as their mother anymore. I tell everybody that's their egg donor. She doesn't. When she did what she did, she lost the title, being called a mother. She's an egg donor. So I was frustrated that.

Andrea Dunlop (41:43)

So how. So you go. You go through the sentencing hearing and I mean, it sounds like at this point you're very worried that she's going to get off with probation, because the DA has basically been telling you that this might end with probation.

Derek (41:59)

I was worried after she broke her bond the second time, it moved it to a felony. So I knew she had this on her. I just found out that we was originally supposed to have an earlier sentencing date, but she caught. She got her attorney to get with the judge to ask for continuance because she had a heart something, something scan that she needed to go to. It was on that day. So the judge, you know, granted it because, hey, if she really does have medical issue, let's get it taken care of, whatever that day comes for. Which I remember that day vividly because that was her birthday. It was June 25th. And coming to find out she didn't go to that heart doctor appointment, she told her family that the heart doctor or the person that was Supposed to do the scan, had called in sick. She told the heart doctor, the front office, that she wasn't going to be able to make it in because she was in the hospital with her daughter who had had five back to back seizures.

Andrea Dunlop (43:09)

Perfect.

Derek (43:10)

And I'm like, so it just never.

Andrea Dunlop (43:12)

It never ends. It never ends.

Derek (43:14)

So come to find out, after hearing stories, the latest boyfriend that she had, the. The most recent one, she had told them that she was a trauma nurse at jps, had shown them pictures of like ER room with some blood and stuff in there and said, this is one of the rooms that she had worked. You know, this is, you know, while they were cleaning it up, she went as far as to finding cases somehow that had happened in there. And I don't know if she was Google, I don't know how she was doing it, but she was telling them stories about cases she worked while in there that were actual cases that happened at jps.

Andrea Dunlop (43:51)

Stuff that was reported in the news. Probably, yeah.

Derek (43:54)

It's not. I don't know.

Andrea Dunlop (43:55)

Oh.

Derek (43:56)

But she told them that her kids were with me for the summer. She got them back August 1st. That's what she was telling everybody, is that I, I had them for the summer. Told them that once they started catch on a little bit, that everything was going to be wiped clean. It was all my fault. I was the one that did everything. I was the one that was giving the kids the medicine. And they had her attorney had the evidence to prove it. And I'm like, I found all this out during the sentencing trial while we were there. And I'm like, are you kidding me? You still trying to blame me?

Andrea Dunlop (44:33)

Yeah.

Derek (44:34)

Like you still cannot take responsibility for your actions.

Andrea Dunlop (44:37)

Yeah.

Derek (44:38)

And that's what.

Andrea Dunlop (44:38)

I'm completely compulsive, right?

Derek (44:41)

Yeah. And that's what I was telling the DA's office, everybody. I'm like, look, she's always gotten away with a slap on her hand all the way through life. Her family's always bailed her out, her uncle's always been there to bail her out. I was like, until she gets hit with the harsh reality that there's consequences for your actions, she's never going to change. Now, granted, even with getting hit with this harsh reality, I doubt she changes. Because the moment her daughter walked up on that stand to testify, her emotion didn't change once. No remorse, nothing. The judge tells her she gets 60 years, no emotion.

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Andrea Dunlop (46:52)

Hearing and then the judge makes his decision. And were you sitting in the room when that happened?

Derek (46:58)

I was, I was, I was front row. Her attorney had asked for probation, said that she had, you know, had tried to commit suicide three times in her life. Once when she was 12 years old. When he said that, her mother went, what? And I might never heard of that before.

Andrea Dunlop (47:18)

News to. News to her parents. Yeah. Oh boy.

Derek (47:21)

Apparently once in high school school and then once in jail. But he's like, you know, we think rehabilitation and probation, like we really think we can get her there. It'd be the best route, like sort.

Andrea Dunlop (47:36)

Of this is a woman who needs help, kind of that. That sort of thing.

Derek (47:39)

Yeah, she'd already went to therapy, whatever, twice. And what? First time was a week. The second time was like a month since all this had came out in 2022. And the judge sitting there and he's like, you know, he's like, I'm not gonna say it. Actually, I am. We don't want you to commit suicide, but I can. You're a danger to society, and I can't allow you to walk the streets. And he's like, and that I'm gonna send it to 60 years. I. Because I'd went in, I'd went. I had friends that were like, hey, you know, all this, they got on her. Now she's gonna get 45. I was like, no, never. I was like, I would put money on that. I said, most women either walk away with probation or just a couple years. That's it.

Andrea Dunlop (48:22)

I mean, even. Even women that kill their kids. I mean, two of the most famous cases of child deaths much, much later sentences. I mean, that. That I was. That's shocking. 60 years is shocking in one of these cases because. Not because it's too harsh, in my opinion, but especially for someone who's really showing in every way possible that they're going to commit it as soon as they have the chance again. But, like, just because you don't usually see judges taking that this seriously.

Derek (48:47)

Well, I was telling people, if she gets 20, I'll. I'll be happy. 30, I'll be ecstatic. And if she got 40 years, I'd sing hallelujah. It should have been. It shouldn't even have been a worry from the get go because weber handed the DA's office this case on a silver platter. And they're like, now let's just put it on a paper plate. That's really how it felt. I mean, I had to fight them the whole time to stay after it. So once they said 60, I was just. The rest of that day, I was in shock. I was far. I couldn't even drive. And I think it was also the shock that it was finally over.

Andrea Dunlop (49:25)

Yeah. Because this sounds like it had been just a grind from like the moment that you discovered the abuse to like that.

Derek (49:32)

That moment I stayed and stayed on top of them. I know they probably hated me by the end, but I don't care. You can hate me, but it's my kids that I'm fighting for. I had even went to the point of. Before the sentence was made or for the court date, I tried to go to the elected DA of Tarrant County. I tried to set up a meeting. The highest of the highest of the high. You can go. Phil Sorrels. I tried to go there. And they're like, why do you want a meeting? This is your da. And I'm like, I know that's my da, but I want to talk to this guy about how it's going and problems I'm having. Okay, I will have them get in contact with you. I have not to this day heard anything.

Andrea Dunlop (50:15)

Yeah, well, we'll see when he's up for reelection.

Derek (50:18)

So I want to do the best I can to get this known about not just my case, but this disease, this. This illness, whatever you want to call it, so that our DA's offices, our judges, our detectives air, you know, doctor, everybody needs to be more aware of this and know about it more. The society, you know, needs to know about it more. There needs to be more things that can help, you know, and that's. And I've told. I told Detective Weber, I talk. I talk to him often now, and that's my goal for the rest of my life, is to do what I can to help. I'm going to try to do whatever I can to come up with anything that I can think of. And it may be the silliest idea and everybody can shoot me down, but I'm going to do what I can to try to help implement things that can help to protect kids. Because first person that's supposed to protect them are the parents. And if when the parents ain't, somebody else has got to try to help, and kids grow up supposed to trust their parents and look up to them, maybe I can help. Like I said, even if I help two or three kids out, then I will feel accomplished.

Andrea Dunlop (51:28)

Well, we're sure glad to have you in the fight, Derek. I'm sorry for how you got here, but really, really, really appreciate you coming on to tell your story, because I agree with you that I think that awareness is. Is a big first step. But I, you know, I'm so glad that you're doing so much to connect with the community, and that will help you help them, too. And, like, you know, they're better off tackling how to sort of combat all of those things that we always hear from survivors. You know, they. They have time on their side, right? So it's. They're not.

Derek (52:06)

When they're 30, they're blossoming now. They're doing great. They've. They've taken my girlfriend in. We've been together for two years. And the girls don't talk. The youngest ones don't talk about Jessica anymore. Once in a blue moon while they bring her up, but they talk about how she's a bad person. They now call, refer to my girlfriend as mother. They've. They've attached. She's actually shown them what a mother figure supposed to be. The oldest one is sucked Right up to her. You know, they're two peas in a pod. I swear, half the time, if anything was to ever have me and her, she's gonna choose her over me, you know, not really. I mean, she's. Oh, she's gonna be a daddy's girl. But they've sucked up right to her. And, you know, so they're. They're really blossoming. I mean, it's just great to actually see them get to grow and enjoy what childhood they. The oldest one gets to enjoy what childhood she has left, but then the other ones, they get to. You know, they were young enough that I want to just fill their life with joy so that maybe they can push most of those bad memories out.

Andrea Dunlop (53:16)

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's really beautiful, and I'm. I'm really happy for you and your family that you had a good outcome, and Jessica is where she belongs, and we'll be there for at least quite some time. And thank you so much for taking the time to tell this story and share this was. I know it's not easy to relive all these details, and I just. I really, really appreciate having your voice on here. It makes a huge difference to people listening. And, you know, we have a lot of survivors who listen. We have a lot of folks in the medical profession. We. We have a lot of folks who work in various sort of child protection agencies. So it's really. You know, it really resonates when you. When you hear some story from someone like you. So thank you so much.

Derek (54:03)

Hey, thank you for having me on here.

Andrea Dunlop (54:07)

Nobody should believe me. Case Files is produced and hosted by me, Andrea Dunlop. Our editor is Greta Stromquist, and our senior producer is Mariah Gossett. Administrative support from Nola Carmouche.