Nobody Should Believe Me - Case Files 15: Everyday Cults with Rachel Bernstein

Released on April 10, 2025

Introduction

In Episode 15 of Nobody Should Believe Me, host Andrea Dunlop engages in a profound conversation with Rachel Bernstein, a therapist specializing in cults and coercive control behaviors. This episode delves into the intricate mechanisms of manipulation and the psychological underpinnings that cause individuals to maintain belief systems despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Drawing parallels between cult dynamics and Munchausen by Proxy (MBP) abuse, the discussion provides valuable insights for survivors, family members, and professionals alike.

Rachel Bernstein’s Background and Expertise

Rachel Bernstein begins by sharing her personal connection to the subject matter, recounting how a sibling's involvement in a cult during her upbringing sparked her interest in understanding coercive behaviors. She explains,

“I thought, what is that? I mean, are there people out in corners, like, trying to hypnotize people? Because you don't see that.” ([04:37])

This curiosity propelled her into pursuing a master’s degree and eventually specializing in therapies related to cults and narcissistic personality disorders. Rachel emphasizes the subtlety and insidious nature of cult-like behavior, noting that even professional environments can harbor such dynamics.

The Professor Cult Incident

A pivotal moment in Rachel’s career was her realization that a professor teaching group therapy at her master’s program was unintentionally fostering a cult-like environment. She describes:

“Just because someone’s wearing a lab coat doesn't mean you can trust them.” ([06:30])

Rachel conducts a social experiment by fabricating a traumatic story, which results in immediate favoritism and emotional support from the professor and peers. This experience underscored how easily trust and manipulation can be intertwined, even in professional settings.

Understanding Supporters and Family Dynamics

Andrea Dunlop relates Rachel’s experiences to her own struggles with her sister Megan’s MBP abuse, highlighting the similarities in how families become fractured and supportive networks either perpetuate or challenge the abusive behavior. Rachel explains the psychological barriers that prevent family members from seeing the truth:

“A lot of people are kind of protecting the perpetrator because they’re protecting themselves.” ([19:26])

She discusses the "sunk cost fallacy," where long-term involvement with a loved one makes it increasingly difficult to sever ties, especially when families invest emotionally and spiritually over years.

The Role of Medical Professionals

A significant portion of the conversation addresses the alarming tendency of some doctors to unwittingly support MBP abusers. Rachel attributes this to self-serving motivations and the need for professional validation, stating:

“They really are dangerous. Like, you have to rearrange your entire worldview if you think that someone who presents as a nice, sympathetic, loving mom can be the most terrifying person you’ve ever met.” ([25:09])

She underscores the necessity for medical professionals to adopt a more skeptical and evidence-based approach when dealing with suspected abuse cases to prevent further harm.

Supporting Survivors and Their Families

Rachel offers compassionate strategies for assisting survivors and their families in breaking free from abusive dynamics. She emphasizes the importance of community support and validating the survivors' experiences without letting empathy for the abuser interfere with protecting the child. Andrea adds:

“None of that compassion or empathy that you may feel for a perpetrator should ever interfere with protecting the child.” ([14:24])

Rachel advocates for creating safe environments where survivors can express their complex emotions and gradually build the courage to detach from the abuser while retaining cherished memories.

Helping Individuals Leave Cults

The conversation explores practical steps to aid individuals in leaving cults or abusive relationships. Rachel points out the significance of timing and personal readiness, noting:

“It’s never too late to have insight. It’s never too late to suddenly feel brave enough to really see.” ([52:18])

She advises creating a “glide path” for those ready to leave, ensuring they have access to resources and support systems to prevent isolation and facilitate healing.

Compassion and Boundaries with Perpetrators

Andrea and Rachel discuss the delicate balance between feeling compassion for perpetrators and maintaining strict boundaries to ensure safety. Rachel suggests:

“You can hold on to those pieces [good memories] while still keeping yourself distant and safe from the person and their disorder.” ([47:48])

This approach allows survivors to reconcile their love for the perpetrator with the need to protect themselves and their children, fostering emotional healing without compromising safety.

Final Thoughts and Resources

As the episode concludes, Rachel provides resources for those seeking help, including her therapy practice and her podcast Indoctrination. Andrea emphasizes the importance of creating safe spaces for individuals to come forward, even if they have previously been unsupportive or unwittingly complicit in the abuse.

Rachel affirms:

“It really is never too late to be able to have insight. It’s never too late to change your mind.” ([53:18])

Key Takeaways

• Subtle Manipulation: Cult-like behaviors can manifest in various settings, including professional environments, making them challenging to identify and address.

• Support System Dynamics: Families often struggle with internal conflicts when dealing with abusive members, influenced by psychological barriers and emotional investments.

• Role of Professionals: Medical and mental health professionals must remain vigilant and evidence-based to prevent unintentional support of abusers.

• Survivor Support: Creating supportive communities and validating survivors' experiences are crucial for healing and breaking free from abusive dynamics.

• Continuous Accessibility: Providing ongoing support opportunities ensures that individuals have avenues to seek help whenever they are ready to leave abusive relationships.

Notable Quotes

• Rachel Bernstein on professor cult incident:

  “Just because someone’s wearing a lab coat doesn't mean you can trust them.” ([06:30])

• Rachel on protecting perpetrators:

  “A lot of people are kind of protecting the perpetrator because they’re protecting themselves.” ([19:26])

• Andrea on compassion and safety:

  “None of that compassion or empathy that you may feel for a perpetrator should ever interfere with protecting the child.” ([14:24])

• Rachel on never being too late:

  “It really is never too late to be able to have insight. It’s never too late to suddenly feel brave enough to really see.” ([52:18])

Resources

• Rachel Bernstein Therapy: rachelbernsteintherapy.com
• Indoctrination Podcast: Available on all major podcast platforms
• Munchausen Support Nonprofit: Support groups for survivors and family members

Conclusion

Case Files 15 provides an enlightening exploration of the intersections between cult dynamics and Munchausen by Proxy abuse. Rachel Bernstein's expertise offers a nuanced understanding of the psychological and social factors that sustain abusive relationships, while Andrea Dunlop’s personal experiences add depth to the conversation. This episode serves as a vital resource for anyone seeking to comprehend and combat the devastating effects of such manipulative behaviors.