Eckhart Tolle (2:30)

And we'll hear from readers.

Audience Member (2:32)

I was blown away when I read.

Eckhart Tolle (2:33)

Your book about how Eckhart's teachings have transformed their lives.

Audience Member (2:37)

It was absolutely my aha moment and it just felt very freeing and it gave me a lot of hope.

Oprah Winfrey (2:43)

So I want to just say that 16 years ago I read this book around 2007 and I really was changed by the book A New Earth. I would have to say that this book has probably had more effect on my life than any other book I've read by a living Author. Okay, so that excludes the Bible, but by a living author, I would say this book has had the most impact on my life. And I thought I was having a pretty good life. And my life experience, my experience of myself as a human being, as a being on the planet, my ability to separate my thoughts from myself and to realize that I am the awareness that disguised as a person. My ability to understand what he says on page 41, that life will give you exactly the experience you need for the evolution of your consciousness. And how do you know that? Because that's the experience you are having right now. My ability to accept that, my ability to recognize that all stress is wanting the moment you're in to be something else and that you are causing most of your suffering because you can't accept the present moment for what it is. I mean, it changed me and changed me and changed me and changed me. I thought I knew what ego was until chapters two and three of this book, it changed me and changed me and changed me. It uplifted my life and enhanced it in ways that I cannot even describe. And I will tell you, it's the one book that is constantly by my nightstand. So I have the Bible there, I have Mary Oliver's poems there, and I have Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth there consistently, all the time. And every couple of years, I go back and I reread the entire book and I was thinking about where we are in the world right now and what our consciousness really needs is a little enhancement. I thought, and I thought, there's no book that's had more influence or power, in my opinion, to change the way you think about yourself and the way you think about the world than A New Earth. And this just happens to be, I think, the 20th edition of it. And I will also say this, over the years, I have met multiple, multiple, multiple, multiple spiritual teachers, spiritual thinkers, voices of our time. And I will have to say, no person have I met that had absolutely no ego other than this man. This man is a walking example of walking the walk. Eckhart Tolle, welcome.

Audience Member (5:34)

Thank you. Thank you.

Oprah Winfrey (5:38)

And so I read it back in 2007, 2008, we did a 10 part series on every chapter. And at the time, we were just beginning to Skype. Can you all remember those days? We were just beginning to Skype. So the very first sessions, every time we were together at Cardigan we go, can you believe we're seeing people?

Eckhart Tolle (5:59)

I can see you.

Audience Member (6:00)

Can you see me?

Oprah Winfrey (6:01)

And now it sounds like, you know, that Was ancient times. Ancient times. So let's start with a basic. A new Earth 101. For those watching and listening who. Who've not read the book yet, how do you explain the core message of A New Earth?

Audience Member (6:20)

Well, first, the general context is that humanity or human beings are not a finished product. They are evolving. And the glada context for it is the evolution of consciousness in human beings. And we are all part of that evolution of consciousness. And so the subtitle is awakening to your life purpose. And life purpose is twofold. One is the personal purpose. Whatever you are called upon to do in this lifetime, outer activities, your job, whatever it is you do, that is your outer purpose. There is a more important, underlying, deeper purpose that needs to flow into whatever you do in your outer life. And that deeper purpose is to become a more conscious human being, to embody the evolution of consciousness, the flowering of consciousness. And that's to do with diminishment of the ego, to discover within yourself that which continuously prevents you from evolving.

Oprah Winfrey (7:31)

So it's about we are here to evolve more consciously as conscious beings, and the purpose is to work towards diminishing that thing we call the ego.

Eckhart Tolle (7:44)

One of Eckhart's core teachings is that we are not our thoughts. I know that's a challenging concept. Eckhart says the compulsive thinking that plagues most people is a form of addiction, the of the most pervasive on the planet. It fuels our ego thinking, separates us from our true self, or the transcendent, as Eckhart called it. He says the only way to reach this deeper dimension is through the practice of presence.

Oprah Winfrey (8:14)

Now, I will tell y'all really funny story. When I first had this conversation with Eckhart, I remember saying to you, I really think I have my ego pretty much under control. Okay, so the very next day, I had a doctor's appointment to get a mammogram. And normally, because I am a known person, I am brought around the back of the doctor's office, and I'm taken in the back, and I don't have to wait in a line and I don't have to sit. And so on this particular day, I am brought to the front, and everybody's sitting there in the waiting room. And I think, oh, well, this is a nice experience. So I thought, well, let me just enjoy the moment, the present moment. So I start talking to people.

Audience Member (8:57)

Oh, what are you reading?

Oprah Winfrey (8:58)

And so the appointment was at 11, and about 1120, I remember getting up and calling my assistant, Libby, and I said, libby, what is going on. Here I am at the doctor's office to get the mammogram. What is going on? And she says, oh, don't worry what they're going to do. They're going to take you in the back and then they're going to put like an apron on you and then you're going to have to take off your top. I said, let me. I know what a mammogram is. I want to know why am I in the waiting room? And then right in the middle of that went, I think that's my ego. I think it's my ego. It's my ego. That felt like, why am I waiting when I've never had to wait? And it was shown to me the exact next day after I told you how it was all in control.

Audience Member (9:51)

So did you discover the ear in the moment that you were speaking or just afterwards? Or was it right in the middle.

Oprah Winfrey (10:00)

Of me saying, I know what a mammogram is, I thought, oh, there she is, there's the ego. That's the thing that you thought you had under control.

Audience Member (10:15)

But that's a good sign because to discover the ego in the moment it arises requires a fairly high degree of presence. Many people would only discover the ego maybe hours later or the next day and then think back about, oh, that was the ego. If you notice the ego in the moment it arises means you're really quite present.

Oprah Winfrey (10:39)

Yeah.

Audience Member (10:39)

And to notice the ego in oneself the moment it arises is gain in consciousness. It doesn't mean that you failed. It's not a defeat. It doesn't mean, oh, there's the ego gain. Why am I still stuck in the ego? No, because presence is there at the same time.

Oprah Winfrey (11:01)

Because the awareness that that is what is happening is what helps you diminish that ego.

Audience Member (11:07)

Yes. The awareness frees you from ego. The first thing that awareness does, it breaks the identification with the ego.

Eckhart Tolle (11:15)

Yes.

Audience Member (11:15)

So people who are ego possessed, they don't know they have an ego because they are so identified. The ego, it becomes them. It is the person.

Oprah Winfrey (11:24)

Yeah.

Audience Member (11:25)

And so to know your own ego is already an awakening. Yes. So what is it that awakens the awareness so that the awareness is consciousness? And normally consciousness is always absorbed by the mind and that becomes the ego.

Oprah Winfrey (11:44)

Awareness is really who you are because you say in the very beginning of your book stillness Speaks, which if you just want to introduce someone to these principles, I think stillness Speaks is a wonderful way to do that because you don't have to read it all at one time. They're like little paragraphs that bring you into the space of stillness. And you say on the very first page that it is the awareness of these words on the page and that awareness bringing them into thoughts. You are that awareness disguised as a person.

Audience Member (12:18)

Yes.

Oprah Winfrey (12:19)

That is who you really are.

Audience Member (12:22)

Yes.

Oprah Winfrey (12:22)

And if you are not operating from that space, which most of us can't do that all the time, you do. I've seen you live your life this way. But there are many times where I have to bring myself back to that. And I will say that before reading A New Earth, I thought ego meant people who were arrogant or people who were, you know, always trying to boss other people around. Or it meant that you were somebody who thought you were better than other people. I didn't realize that every one of us has an ego. And it's your role in life to keep that thing in check and to separate and understand your true self from the ego that is consistently trying to rule your life.

Audience Member (13:11)

Yes. Well, also, you don't need to wait for the challenge to come into your life. Also discover that at any moment, at this moment, as you're sitting here, there is your experience of this moment. Sensory experience, visual, auditory. That's part of the present moment. And if you want to go deeper into the present moment, that's already a wonderful thing to become aware of your surroundings rather than being totally absorbed into the stream of mostly useless thinking. Right. So you become more acutely aware of your surroundings. And often you find there's an aliveness around there, no matter where you are in this room. So that's a bit. I call it sometimes the beginning of present moment awareness is to be aware of your sensory perceptions. Oh. And for some people, that's like waking up out of some kind of dream, because they were always immersed in thinking about past and future, only peripherally aware.

Oprah Winfrey (14:12)

Of the present moment and also wanting to be. I remember reading this, I think it was either in A New Earth or Power of Now. That stress is wanting the present moment to be something other than what it is.

Audience Member (14:26)

Yes.

Oprah Winfrey (14:27)

And that you all relate to that. Right. And that you're stuck in traffic and you're like stressing about getting to the da da da. If you just relax, first of all, if you can't move the traffic, then what are you stressing about? And if you just relax into it and accept, get to acceptance of this present moment, it makes everything fall, flow more easily.

Audience Member (14:50)

Yes.

Oprah Winfrey (14:50)

And I have found that that principle of being able to be in the present moment, which has now become my greatest gift to Myself is the best offering you can give to yourself and to. And. And to anybody else, because it means you accept this moment for what it is. And even if the moment isn't what you want it to be, you can't begin to change it until you get to acceptance.

Audience Member (15:13)

You. Yes. That's the basis for. Also the basis for intelligent action or wise action. I think the key word is wise. Where's wisdom? And there's intelligence.

Oprah Winfrey (15:23)

Yes.

Audience Member (15:24)

An intelligent person can easily have a huge ego. So you cannot equate the ego and intelligence often come together easily. Wisdom is something different. Wisdom arises out of the awareness, out of the awareness at the moment. So to have to make wise decisions. The basis for a wise decision is first an acceptance of what is right now, rather than a reaction against what is, an emotional reaction against it that prevents you from arriving at a wise decision of what to do. But if you can accept this moment as it is, and then one could say a higher intelligence begins to operate. And that is wisdom. That higher intelligence is wisdom. It can then accept the moment and.

Oprah Winfrey (16:16)

Then say, now what do I need to do?

Audience Member (16:18)

Exactly.

Oprah Winfrey (16:18)

That I've accepted it. You get it? You get the difference Instead of resisting the moment.

Audience Member (16:22)

Yes.

Oprah Winfrey (16:23)

And I find a lot of people are in resistance of whatever the moment is right now in big ways and little ways in their life.

Audience Member (16:31)

Yes.

Oprah Winfrey (16:31)

Yeah.

Audience Member (16:31)

I also noticed or sometimes will observe people who run a business. And of course, if you run a business continuously, obstacles arise. It is normal. Every day some kind of obstacle arises and people are egoically possessed. They become angry and reactive and they fight their obstacles immediately have an angry reaction when an obstacle rises. But there are some people, the most successful people, they immediately look at the obstacle instead of reacting against it. They immediately see what it is that can be done to either circumvent the obstacle or transform it into something positive.

Oprah Winfrey (17:05)

Right.

Audience Member (17:06)

That you did direct attention to the situation. And I call that responding rather than reacting.

Oprah Winfrey (17:12)

Yes. Yeah. For me, that is. The obstacle shows itself and I immediately say to the obstacle, what are you here to show me? What are you here to teach me?

Audience Member (17:21)

Yes.

Oprah Winfrey (17:21)

And accept that you're here to show me something and then try to figure out what it is you need to do. Yes, yes, I know. Annabelle in our audience is a first timer. Annabelle, tell us about your experience.

Audience Member (17:33)

Hi. I felt like reading this book now was at the right season of my life. And knowing that I was gonna read it in community, I wanted to be very present. So I highlighted and took notes in a way that I've never done. Before, I don't like writing in my books. I want them to be pristine. I kept a list of all my aha moments. But I loved writing my notes and my questions because I feel like it's gonna be a gift to my kids when they read it. It'll be almost like a conversation, and it'll shed light on what I took away from the book. So thank you.

Audience Member (18:06)

All right. Very good.

Oprah Winfrey (18:08)

Terrific. Director and actor Chris Evans is an avid reader of Eckhardt's work, and we asked if he wanted to join this book club conversation. And even though he's filming a movie on the other side of the world, Chris is zooming from Athens. Whoa, look at you. Hey.

Audience Member (18:26)

Hi, Chris.

Chris Evans (18:27)

Oh, hello. It's an honor to be here.

Oprah Winfrey (18:29)

Thanks for listening.

Eckhart Tolle (18:30)

We'll be right back with more of my conversation with Eckhart Tolle.

Oprah Winfrey (18:34)

Welcome listen in Starbucks. It's a great day for coffee.

Eckhart Tolle (18:51)

Welcome back to you. I'm talking with a great spiritual teacher, Eckhart Tolle. I am so glad that you are with us.

Oprah Winfrey (18:59)

Thank you for joining us. I have to tell you, I thought I was the biggest Eckhart person on the planet. But you have taken it to the next level, I hear. Tell us about your tattoo. I don't have an Eckhart tattoo yet.

Chris Evans (19:14)

I do not. I do have an Eckhart tattoo. It's actually from Stillness Speaks. And of the, you know, the many lines in his books that have resonated, this one just felt like a real North Star. It was. It was a line that said, when you lose touch with inner stillness, you lose touch with yourself. When you lose touch with yourself, you lose yourself in the world. And, you know, I put enormous emphasis on the practice of stillness, which is basically the practice of being present. But. But you can't be present unless you're accepting of the moment, accepting what is, surrendering to it. You know, I think. I think. Well, as I'm sure you all know, most suffering comes from resisting in some capacity. What is. You know, you're either you either resist and struggle or you surrender and accept. And one of those things will bring you closer to who you are. And one of those things, you know, you're on the risk of losing yourself completely.

Oprah Winfrey (20:16)

Wow. So why do you think this particular quote resonated so profoundly with you, Chris?

Chris Evans (20:22)

I think to some degree, the industry I'm in, you hear stories of people losing themselves.

Audience Member (20:28)

But.

Chris Evans (20:29)

But I think through the practice of stillness, all those other downstream lessons and practices occur. The act of recognizing that you're not the voice in your head, you know, you are just the awareness of it. That, that voice, that compulsive stream of labeling and comparing, that, that's not who you are. That voice wants to pull you out of the moment. That voice wants to, you know, analyze the past and worry about the future. If you follow that voice too long, you identify with it and, and your suffering will just spiral. So that that initial quote that I have on me forever just felt like a real foundational building block to this world.

Oprah Winfrey (21:10)

And where is it on you?

Chris Evans (21:12)

Right on my chest right there.

Oprah Winfrey (21:14)

Okay.

Eckhart Tolle (21:14)

Okay, I love that.

Oprah Winfrey (21:15)

Okay, I love that. And did you have a question for Eckhart?

Chris Evans (21:19)

Yeah, I do. I had. Well, it was kind of a tool, it was kind of a four parter, but I'm going to spare you. I guess my, my question is, you know, you've, you've been doing this for so long. Do you still have access to your former suffering? Can you recognize it? And do you still feel that suffering the way you did then? Or do you look at it through different eyes, through a different lens? Does it still resonate the same way?

Audience Member (21:47)

I don't feel the suffering anymore at all. It's like evaporated. I remember it. I remember, for example, that in my childhood I was mostly unhappy because of an unstable family background. I didn't have a happy childhood. I remember that. But on a feeling level, I don't revive it. It's not there anymore. It exhausted itself, it evaporated, or it got burned up by the presence. I don't know exactly how to put it, but the unhappiness has not survived in me except as a memory, but not on an emotional level. So it's gone, which is good.

Oprah Winfrey (22:32)

Isn't that a profound thing to be able to say? The unhappiness has not survived in me.

Eckhart Tolle (22:40)

The seeds of Eckart's evolution emerged from a difficult childhood. Born In Germany in 1948, Eckhart's parents separated when he was a child. He eventually became a distinguished research scholar at Cambridge. But his burgeoning success failed to soothe the anxiety and depression that dogged him. At age 29, pushed to the brink of despair, Eckhart contemplated suicide. It's in this moment of pain a new awareness was born. Eckhart says he experienced a spiritual transformation so profound his suffering disappeared.

Audience Member (23:18)

Unhappiness for many people becomes an intrinsic part of their sense of identity. Yeah, and so that's also explains why many people have a resistance. As every therapist knows, many people have a resistance towards letting go of Their unhappiness. So the therapist tries to.

Oprah Winfrey (23:37)

Because that has become their identity. That's their story.

Audience Member (23:40)

They think they lose themselves if you let go of their unhappiness.

Oprah Winfrey (23:43)

They're not complaining about being unhappy. Yes, yes. Yeah, Yeah, I know, Chris. I was saying to the audience before, and I know if you heard me, Eckhart is actually the only person of the thousands and thousands and thousands of people I've interviewed who has no ego, who just. I mean, who not only writes about it, but actually lives it and walks the walk. And so I'm not surprised that your unhappiness has not survived in you. Yeah, yeah. Pretty incredible.

Audience Member (24:11)

Yeah. Yeah.

Oprah Winfrey (24:12)

Well, thank you so much for joining us on the other side of the world. Thanks for taking the time to zoom with us. Thank you so much.

Eckhart Tolle (24:18)

We love that tattoo.

Audience Member (24:19)

Thank you.

Oprah Winfrey (24:20)

Thank you, Chris. Heather, thank you. Michelle, where are you? You have a question? Go ahead.

Audience Member (24:30)

Just to share that, I read your book back in, I guess, 2007, and it sparked that awareness in me. But it wasn't until these past couple years of great trials and tribulations that the discipline, the motivation to become more present, to survive very challenging things, to get relief from great pain and suffering. So it's been an awakening in me. I still get lost in the illusion of my mind, but with great gratitude. It happens for shorter and shorter periods of time. And the gift has been a true reclaiming of my spirit that which is unshakable.

Audience Member (25:21)

Thank you. So thank you. I have a comment on that. When life gets challenging, a human being can go two ways. And very often, when life gets difficult, some loss, obstacle, many ways, challenge can present itself. You can either become more identified with the ego and you become more unhappy. You become a very unhappy human. Reactive, angry, resentful, despondent. Many, many, many negative states can arise when you're being challenged. That is one way you can go or the other way you can go. And that usually happens if there is already a certain amount of presence in you, you've already practiced, or you've had glimpses of presence or even more than glimpses of presence. When then a challenge comes, it can easily happen that the challenge, one could almost say, forces you into becoming more present. It deepens your presence. So an example from. Even from my life, there's always a presence in my life. There's always a presence. Sometimes it's in the back when I talk. Now, there's a presence in the background. I can sense the stillness behind the words. And one could say the words come out of the stillness. And that's even when I go about my daily business. There's always do ordinary things. There is that sense of peace.

Oprah Winfrey (26:51)

You are aware of the awareness.

Audience Member (26:53)

I'm aware of the awareness. And then two and a half years ago, I went to the doctor. Another doctor story. You had one now. I won. I had certain symptoms, intestinal symptoms. Finally had to have a colonoscopy. After the colonoscopy, the doctor said, you have cancer. Oh, and when you hear that, usually, I mean, it could mean, yes, you could have a few more years. It could also mean you only have six months or 12 months when you hear that. That's. So I was a little shocked. The person was shocked. And immediately I noticed an enormous intensification of presence, as if somebody had turned up the dimmer switch. And the. On a practical level, 10 days after the diagnosis, I had an operation. But in those 10 days, I spent hours and hours in intense presence. Usually presence in the background. And this, okay, presence came into the foreground. So I would sit in my room, just no thought in my head at all. Just an enormous amount of awareness, Just filled with awareness. I could feel the cells of the body filling with awareness. And I believe that was a kind of self healing also. And I had the operation and they took section out of my colon. And then after the operation, another scan and said, fine, it hasn't spread anywhere. And I continued with the wonderful presence practice because presence is also extremely healing. So I gave that as an example for when you're really challenged and you're already familiar what presence is. Then you will find that you become, through the challenge, you become more present. So it deepens you at any challenge, then deepens you rather than the challenge making you more unconscious.

Oprah Winfrey (29:09)

I think this is really hard. What you're saying is you are really E.T. your initials are E.T. and you are like E.T. sitting here in the chair. Cause I don't know nobody else who could do that. You know, you hear that, you get the cancer diagnosis and you go, oh, oh. I think my presence is gonna come forward. You know, that's really, really challenging for most of us in the world. Yes.

Audience Member (29:40)

Yeah.

Oprah Winfrey (29:41)

And that's just because you stay in that space. It's always there. You are always aware that you are aware.

Audience Member (29:49)

Yes, yes.

Oprah Winfrey (29:50)

And you are always aware, even when you're speaking to us right now and having this conversation, that what you're saying, that your thoughts are not you not.

Audience Member (30:00)

Losing oneself in this thought stream, even when one speaks. You can often see when you observe people having a conversation or discussion. They easily, they lose themselves in their thought stream. Yeah. When the emotion comes in the moment you identify with the thought where very quickly an emotional come in also. And, and then you start arguing. When you have conversations with your family, do you lose yourself in your mental positions? And then, then the other mental position becomes to you an enemy. So that's, it's very important to practice presence. When you meet your family members and they may have different opinions than you, different mental positions, can you allow them their mental position? And don't equate their mental position with who. Who or what they truly are. There's a being underneath their mental position. They are not their mental position. That's just the ego. So then you can, sometimes you can be compassionate towards their mental position and allow them to have their. You don't need to put them right and say, no, you're wrong. The moment you get into right and wrong argument, your ego is back. The ego loves proving other people wrong. Of course you need to be right. Being right is one of the great things that the ego strives for.

Oprah Winfrey (31:18)

That's right. And so I think in one of the books you talk about, do you want to be right or do you want peace? Yeah, yeah. That was another huge lesson for me. Do you want to be right or do you want to have peace? And I didn't realize in all those years when I like, well, I know I'm right. I know I'm right. I am right. I even had a T shirt that says I know I'm right. Right. That, that, that is, that's an egoic move. You know, I thought, it's just like, I know I'm right. So.

Audience Member (31:48)

Yes, yes. Even if, I mean, sometimes you do know that you're right. Because there are certain facts, some facts you can. And some people may deny certain facts. And you know very well that you are right and they are not. And yet you can state your belief or your position. You can say, well, let's say how long does it take for the light from the moon to reach the earth? And this person says, oh, it takes 10 minutes. And you say, no, I know. It takes one and a half seconds. Okay, you happen to be right. But then allow that person to have their opinion instead of beginning to argue.

Oprah Winfrey (32:26)

So your need to prove that you're right is your ego. That's the ego needing to. Yeah.

Audience Member (32:30)

Yes.

Oprah Winfrey (32:31)

And how other ways does the ego show up? Because we wanted to establish that from the beginning. Like the difference between you and your ego is.

Eckhart Tolle (32:41)

I'm so glad you all are joining me on this podcast. We will be back in a moment with more of Eckhart Tolle.

Oprah Winfrey (32:51)

Listen in Starbucks, it's a great day for coffee.

Eckhart Tolle (33:06)

We're back with Eckhart Tolle talking about his life changing seminal book, A New Earth.

Audience Member (33:13)

Yes. The question is, how do you. How do you recognize the ego in you when it arises? It's usually. It's not a pleasant place to be. The ego is usually recognized as ultimately they're dysfunctional in yourself. So any negative emotion that arises tends to be part of the ego. It starts with irritation. It's a relatively minor negative emotion. Can easily become amplified and evolve into something bigger. But let's start simple. Irritation. If you can. If you're able to observe an irritation in yourself, you can observe how does it arise. And you may find if you and this investigation. How does it arise already requires some awareness.

Oprah Winfrey (33:59)

Yes.

Audience Member (33:59)

And so. And then you might notice that the irritation rises because there's a thought in your head that says something about whatever it is that you're irritated about. You were sitting in the waiting room in the doctor's office. So most probably your mind was saying, beginning to speak to you, saying, this is awful. Why? They're totally ignoring me. Don't they know who I am?

Oprah Winfrey (34:21)

Yeah.

Audience Member (34:22)

So that. And then if awareness comes in at that moment, you can observe that what your mind is saying creates the irritation.

Oprah Winfrey (34:33)

What your mind is saying is creating the irritation.

Audience Member (34:35)

Not the situation.

Oprah Winfrey (34:36)

Not the situation.

Audience Member (34:37)

Right. And if you can discover that, that's an enormous discovery. And I sometimes recommend you should ask yourself, how would I experience this situation if I did not add any thought to it? If I just accepted it for what it is, the bare isness of this. And then you're sitting in the waiting room. To go back to the example.

Oprah Winfrey (34:57)

Yeah.

Audience Member (34:57)

And you're just enjoying the people breathing, observing.

Oprah Winfrey (35:01)

What are you reading? Okay.

Eckhart Tolle (35:03)

Good.

Audience Member (35:03)

Yeah. Yeah.

Oprah Winfrey (35:04)

Yes.

Audience Member (35:04)

So. And so the discovery.

Oprah Winfrey (35:06)

That same thing with sitting in traffic. People get so crazy sitting in traffic.

Audience Member (35:10)

Yes. How would I experience this moment if I didn't add any thought to it? It's just presence. You're present with what is. And that's also. That is how the ego shrinks and shrinks and shrinks. As you practice that.

Eckhart Tolle (35:25)

Eckhart says as we grow spiritually, the ego becomes less reactive when we encounter obstacles or difficult people, we face them consciously. The ego believes fighting back is power, but Eckhart says the opposite is actually true. Authentic power comes when we surrender. And as he writes, love the isness of the present. Moment.

Oprah Winfrey (35:50)

Okay. Denise S. Where are you? I heard you gave this to your adult children for Christmas.

Audience Member (35:56)

Oh, yes. Three are going under the tree.

Oprah Winfrey (35:59)

You had an awakening about the eagle also?

Audience Member (36:01)

I believe so, yes. I was blown away when I read your book because I had been on a search for years, five years digging, and I felt defeated. And so I read your book, and on page 193 it says, Knowing about yourself is not who you are. And at that moment, I thought I lived in my identity my whole life.

Oprah Winfrey (36:29)

Yeah, every.

Audience Member (36:31)

You know, coming from divorced parents, narcissistic influences, and mother. And the minute I read that chapter, I slept like a baby. And I haven't thought about that since. Would you say that's an awakening?

Audience Member (36:49)

Oh, yes, definitely.

Oprah Winfrey (36:51)

Yay. Pretty good.

Audience Member (36:54)

Thank you. Thank you for your work.

Audience Member (36:58)

That's a wonderful awakening.

Oprah Winfrey (36:59)

Yeah. That's a big one. That's big. That's a big aha. That opens the door to many other ahas.

Audience Member (37:05)

It's fantastic. One of the most important teachings from ancient Greece is the dictum, know thyself from the ancient Greece that was inscribed in the temple of Apollo at Delphi, the famous place carved into the walls of the temple. Know thyself.

Oprah Winfrey (37:23)

Yeah.

Audience Member (37:24)

So. And it doesn't mean at the deepest level, it's not knowing about yourself. The stories of your life, the story of your life, there's a place for that too. If you go to a psychoanalyst, psychoanalyst will bring up all kinds of hidden memories. And so that might have limited usefulness, but eventually you have to go beyond that and go to deeper. Your self is the awareness. Your true self is not whatever arises in the awareness. Your true self is the awareness itself. And the recognition of that in yourself is also stillness. The recognition of the awareness in yourself is also stillness. And whenever you accept this moment as it is, that portal opens up because that acceptance of what it is brings you to that state of inner peace. That's how it works. So the practice then should be this continuous endeavoring to work with the present moment. I sometimes say yes to the present moment. Say yes to your experience of this moment. Whatever is you experience at this moment, accept it, because it already is. If action is called for, that's fine. Then the acceptance becomes the basis for action. So that is, to find yourself, you need to let go of that continuous resistance that is inseparable from the ego that continues. When you let go of resistance, the ego begins to shrink. The ego needs fighting. The ego needs enemies. Enemies in the. Not necessarily, but also in the form of other people, enemies in the form of other groups of people, political groups or whatever it may be. But it also leads enemies in the form of even situations in which you can find yourself. And you don't like the situation, so you make the situation into an enemy or something that you have to do. You're doing it, but you don't really want to be doing it. You're doing it reluctantly, so you make the doing into it, also into a kind of enemy. So whenever you're doing something also to give your fullest attention and not doing with some hidden resentment, that's also very dysfunctional state.

Oprah Winfrey (39:43)

Yeah.

Audience Member (39:43)

And that also strengthens the ego. These are all aspects of ego. So it requires a lot of inner vigilance. That's all. Your main purpose in life is to have that inner vigilance, to have inner peace. Yeah.

Oprah Winfrey (39:57)

Yeah. And it's the thing that I ask myself all the time before making any decisions, is, is this my ego or am I doing this from the state of real awareness? What is the reason? What is the real intention behind it? Because if it is an ego led decision is gonna get me in trouble or I'm gonna end up being resentful or I'm gonna end up being upset with myself or someone else. And I think being upset with yourself is actually worse than being upset with other people. So I'm constantly asking that question of myself for almost everything that I do is like, is this an ego move or is this coming from my pure self?

Audience Member (40:36)

That's a wonderful question.

Oprah Winfrey (40:37)

Yeah.

Audience Member (40:38)

But at other times, the ego can also arise so suddenly and spontaneously that you don't have time to ask yourself before is this? Because suddenly is there. And then you can recognize in that moment or just after that moment. Oh, there it is.

Eckhart Tolle (40:56)

There it is. Yeah.

Oprah Winfrey (40:58)

Grace is 26 years old and here with her mother. And I heard you wrote a note in your book. What is it?

Audience Member (41:04)

Yes. So my aha moment came fairly early into reading the book. And it is when you explain that we are not our thoughts, we are that space before the thoughts. And that really floored me so much that I needed to take a pause. And I just kind of sat with it for a second, and then I really wanted to visualize it. So I wrote in my book, you. And I underlined it, and I left a space in between, and then I put thought and underlined it. That might sound simple, but I really just needed to actually see that physical space between the two things. For me, I've spent a lot of my life struggling with anxiety and depression. I've been through a lot of therapy and reading that gave me pause because I had just accepted that over intellectualizing, over analyzing my thoughts, that's just been my normal for quite, quite. For most of my life. And this made me realize that that might not actually have to be the rest of my life. And it felt, oh, I love that so much.

Eckhart Tolle (42:14)

That's good.

Chris Evans (42:16)

That is true.

Oprah Winfrey (42:17)

That's a big aha.

Audience Member (42:19)

It was absolutely my aha moment. And it just felt very freeing and it gave me a lot of hope and I want to thank you for that. And my question is, what does that space, I guess, mean to you? That space before the thoughts? And also, how do we protect it when we're so socialized to constantly attach to our thoughts or to solely identify with our thoughts? How do you protect that space before the thoughts? How do we protect our eye?

Audience Member (42:47)

Yes, wonderful question and a wonderful insight you had. It's just amazing.

Oprah Winfrey (42:53)

Really good.

Audience Member (42:54)

So, yes, protecting it, because this world will always challenge you. Continuous, continuous noise, continuous mental clutter. Especially since we have invented all these devices that can amplify the mental clutter that was already there. Before I go more deeply into your question, a little thing. You know, people always send text messages. And then you have to look and so what message comes in? What's going on? I sometimes send. I haven't done it in a while, but I'll do it again soon. I sometimes send people a space message. I send them its brackets, an empty space and another bracket. And so they get a message of one bracket, another bracket, no words. And people who know, they know that if they get that from me, they know, ah, it's a space, inner space.

Oprah Winfrey (43:54)

Okay, ET Go ahead.

Audience Member (43:58)

I'll send you one soon.

Oprah Winfrey (44:00)

Okay, good.

Audience Member (44:02)

But you're fine. You don't need it. But. So that space is extremely important. So how do you protect it? You protect it by as much as possible, being aware of that space. To be aware of that space, a little help of something you can do is don't underestimate the importance of breathing, conscious breathing, not necessarily as a structured practice, but simply no matter where you find yourself, there isn't anything in particular to do. Maybe you're waiting for something or whatever. Be aware of your breathing. Take attention. Observe the breath as it rolls in and out of the body. The moment you start observing the breath, the mental clutter stops. And there's a spaciousness there. It creates spaciousness. It takes attention away from the stream of thinking because you cannot both think and be aware of your Breath, that's the. So even now you can verify that in your own experience. Be aware of the breath as you're breathing now. And while you're aware of the breath going in and out in that moment, you're not thinking. There's an inner spaciousness that arises you can use because the breath is always there. But most, we are not conscious of it mostly. And then the breath also puts you in touch with the inner, what I call the inner body feeling. To feel the energy in your body to. Especially if you feel into the abdomen, you breathe into the, into the belly region. And then you feel that there's an energy here which the Japanese in Zen called hara. This is the energy that is here. And you feel an energy that lives in you. That's the animating presence, the intelligence that inhabits the body. And then if you feel it here, you can also feel it spread out into the other parts, into your legs and arms. And then you begin to be aware of the animating presence in your body. And that is spacious. Takes you out of the mental clutter.

Eckhart Tolle (46:20)

One of Eckhart's renowned practices is what he calls inner body awareness meditation. He says when we focus on our breath and the aliveness in every cell, we free ourselves from the grip of the ego. Our compulsive thinking recedes and with it go our fears, resentments and negativity. Over time, Eckhart says, breathing and inner body awareness lead directly to alert stillness and inner peace.

Audience Member (46:51)

So breathing, breath awareness and leading to inner body awareness. And then you can be somewhere, you're in traffic a moment before, you were irritated and suddenly you remember spaciousness, breathing, inner body awareness.

Oprah Winfrey (47:10)

I love that process. I also, anytime you're having a conversation or having a thought and you are aware of the thought, like you can hear yourself speaking and you are aware that you're having that thought. Remembering that you are the awareness. You are not the thought, you are the awareness disguised as a person. You are not the thought. And the thoughts that you're thinking are very separate, are separate from your awareness of the thoughts. Where is the big Y O U resides? The big I am. That's where the real I am resides.

Eckhart Tolle (47:48)

Are you following?

Oprah Winfrey (47:49)

You know what we're talking about? I know y'all do over here.

Eckhart Tolle (47:51)

Y'all are like, yes, yes, yes. Eckhart says most people carry within them an accumulation of prior emotional pain, what he calls the pain body. It can be unresolved stress, negativity or fear that impacts a sense of well being and is a source of suffering. For many, Eckart explains, once we recognize the pain body for what it is, we are held hostage no more. Awareness is the first step toward freedom. Our discomfort becomes so great, we take action to alleviate it. Eckhart explains. The pain body may seem like a huge obstacle. However, it also can be a powerful catalyst to awaken.

Oprah Winfrey (48:37)

Thanks for listening.

Eckhart Tolle (48:38)

We'll be right back with more of my conversation with Eckhart Tolle.

Oprah Winfrey (48:45)

Listen in Starbucks. It's a great day for coffee.

Eckhart Tolle (48:59)

Welcome back to more of my conversation with spiritual thought leader Eckhart Tolle.

Oprah Winfrey (49:05)

Let's get to somebody on this side. The difference between your thoughts and the awareness of the thoughts. Who wants to speak to that on this side? Hi.

Audience Member (49:12)

You know, I was thinking just when you said that about the parent to child relationship, the pain body. Right before I was born, my parents lost a child.

Oprah Winfrey (49:22)

Yeah.

Audience Member (49:22)

And to say that defined who I was for decades, you know, is putting it lightly. And when I, you know, let that thought go that I didn't replace someone, I am not here just to fill a void. It really started to help me learn. Oh, I'm a person. I'm an individual. I exist for a reason. And, you know, the pain that my parents went through were so passed down to me. I was in my mom when she was suffering. And I think, you know, I just think about the power of that thought that I replaced someone and I wasn't meant to exist. When I, you know, I read the book in College in 2005 or 6 because I was so confused. I was so lost. I was so sad. And I think back to those times and I'm like, I can't even recognize that person until my early 30s where I finally. It all clicked. Like you said, it stays by my bed.

Oprah Winfrey (50:40)

Yeah.

Audience Member (50:40)

And I read it all the time because it makes me feel less alone. This room makes me feel less alone. To know that I matter and I'm here for a reason. And it's not just this thought in my head.

Eckhart Tolle (50:54)

Right.

Oprah Winfrey (50:55)

I hear exactly what you're saying. But that would color your whole life. Cause it's the way your parents would treat you. The. They're talking about the loss that they had. And that would color the way you were raised and the way you were born and the way you saw yourself. And then to reach a point, first of all, I want to cry because we celebrate the fact that you reached the point that you realize that you're being here is because you matter and not because you were here to replace somebody else.

Audience Member (51:21)

Well, another comment on this one. Can easily inherit a painful sense of identity. Every human is born into a particular situation, the environment, parental environment, cultural environment. And humans can easily be born into an environment that gives them a painful sense of identity. It can be individual identity, as in your case. It can also be a painful collective identity. If you're born into a group of people that.

Eckhart Tolle (51:57)

Were enslaved.

Audience Member (51:59)

Yes, for example, and then you have. You're born with a painful sense of identity. And again, it's important the ego does not want to free itself from that because that is its identity.

Oprah Winfrey (52:13)

The ego loves that and the pain body really loves it.

Audience Member (52:15)

And that becomes a danger for consideration yourself as a victim. There's no denying that there were and are people who are victims of other people. There's no denying that. However, the danger is when you recognize that there's a you were a victim or even. Or your ancestors were victims that you inherit, can inherit that. The important thing is to go beyond having a victim identity, which means you seek your sense of self in having been a victim. The ego loves that too. The ego will cling to that because then the ego seeks always superiority. Now you might want to ask, well, how is the ego superior if it has a victim identity? Well, the reason is superior when it has a victim identity. The implication is that other people who do not have the victim identity are morally superior to those who are not victims or who are regarded as perpetrators immediately. To be a victim puts you into an imagined moral superiority to what? That's. The ego loves that, obviously. So the OR needs to differentiate between recognizing certain facts that happened.

Oprah Winfrey (53:41)

The ego loves to think I'm better than them.

Audience Member (53:44)

Yes. No matter who better than they are.

Oprah Winfrey (53:46)

And the ego loves to other.

Audience Member (53:47)

It will seek some way of doing it.

Oprah Winfrey (53:49)

Yes.

Audience Member (53:50)

If you can't be the great Victor, then you can be a great victim.

Oprah Winfrey (53:54)

Yeah. Yeah.

Eckhart Tolle (53:56)

We had so much more to talk about. We're going to continue with another episode, so I hope you'll join me for Part 2 with Eckhart Tolle and A New Earth.

Oprah Winfrey (54:06)

Thank you, Eckhart Tolle. Thank you for the gift that is A New Earth. Thank you to our extraordinary partner, Starbucks, for supporting us here. I hope this episode actually inspires you to read A New Earth and talk about it with a friend, maybe over a cup of Starbucks. And thank you for listening and watching. We hope you all join our community and become a part of all of our conversations on the Oprah podcast. Subscribe to the show on YouTube and follow us on Spotify and Apple podcasts or wherever you listen, everybody.

Eckhart Tolle (54:37)

A new Earth.

Audience Member (54:38)

Thanks.