← Nonprofit Leadership Podcast
Loading summary
Transcript60 lines
- [00:03]
A
If you ask any resident that lives at the village today if they've had housing before, 99% of them say, yeah, I've had housing. I just didn't know how to keep it. For whatever reason, I lost it or I burned every bridge in the, in my social network and I can't go to any of my family members or, or friends. And so that's what's keeping me on the street. Once they go down that road, then all these other factors come into play. Sometimes it's addiction, sometimes it's trafficking. And when those things are in front of you, a lot of times there's no way out. I hear that every day from people that we're talking to. I just feel like I'm another number. If I go into get services, they don't ask me my name. It's what's your case Number?
- [00:42]
B
This is Dr. Rob Harder with the nonprofit leadership podcast Making your world better. What does it take to be an effective nonprofit leader today? What are the biggest challenges? What are the biggest obstacles? How should nonprofits focus fundraise in an economy that is constantly changing? All of these reasons combined led me to start this show. And it's my hope that through this series, people can learn not only what it takes to be an effective nonprofit organization, but to hear from effective leaders who are successfully making a positive impact in their communities. We hope you enjoy the show as together we hear how they are making their world better.
- [01:18]
C
Welcome to the nonprofit leadership podcast with Rob Harder. I'm Alex Budak. I live in the San Francisco Bay area. I'm a listener just like you. We're all on a leadership journey looking for ways to learn and grow. Each week I look forward to hearing Rob's latest discussion with his guests. I invite you to join us and subscribe. Thanks for listening into the show.
- [01:38]
B
My hope is it continues to be relevant and applicational to your context and what you're learning and what you're doing there in the social impact sphere. Now, this topic, we're going to be focusing primarily in the American context only because my guest is applying some of these principles in the context of the US the issue we're talking about today is one that's quite controversial, and I'm sure in the U.K. speaking of that, it's controversial as well. But certainly in the United States, this is an issue that a lot of people have different opinions on. And it's not so much the opinions of is it a problem? But what's the solution to the problem and the issue we're going to be talking about is homelessness or I know a lot of different terms now are being used as opposed to homeless. It's we use the term unhoused or unsheltered. And I appreciate that. Yeah, there's different people use different terms. So I just want to recognize there's different ways to acknowledge this issue. But the bottom line is this. The controversy is not that it's an issue in America. Again, think about the American context. Almost every major city has an unhoused homeless problem. So that's not a controversy. The controversy again, the contention, the strong opinions kick in of how do we solve the problem. And that is the nexus of what we talk about today with my guest. My guest is Preston Cochran and he leads what's called the Otherside Village in Salt Lake City, Utah. So they're finding real progress in the model they're applying to this issue. And so I think you're going to really find this interview interesting because Preston will talk about, first of all, how he got to this program and became the leader of this village. But also he's going to talk about what they're doing that may be slightly unique and sometimes, you know, some of the principles that he's going to share today, it's not always just like it's brand new information, but it's how they're applying it and how they're creating what he calls accountability. You'll hear him talk a lot about accountability, but also a lot about compassion and people caring for each other, speaking to each other as their neighbors. They are residents. It's not just clients. It's not a number or case number. They talk in the terms of being a human centered nonprofit organization. And I do think that really sets apart their approach. And again, they've been really finding some real success. I think they were recently on NPR and other cities from across the US Are coming to lean in to say, what are you doing here with your model at the Other side Village? We want to learn from it and we want to apply it to our city. So, again, really interesting conversation, a very difficult topic. So glad you've tuned in today. Thanks for being here. And again, another shout out to my listeners in the uk. Thanks for tuning in. Now onto my interview with Preston.
- [04:23]
C
Welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast with Rob Harder. I'm Alex Budak. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. I'm a listener just like you. We're all on a leadership journey looking for ways to learn and grow. Each week I look forward to hearing Rob's latest discussion with his guests. I invite you to join us and subscribe. Thanks for listening. Now here's Rob.
- [04:45]
B
This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business. Well, welcome back, everybody, to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. I have Preston Cochran here today. Preston, first of all, thanks just for taking time out of your very busy schedule to join us on the show today.
- [05:02]
A
Pleasure to be with you, Dr. Harder. Thanks for having me on.
- [05:05]
B
Absolutely. Well, the fun thing about having Preston on the show is that we are actually friends. We're in the same neighborhood, so to speak. I live in Park City, he's in Salt Lake, which pretty much means we're neighbors. And he's doing great work right here in Utah. And I want to talk all about the Other side Village. And one of the things I do with all my guests, Preston, is just invite them to share a bit about their story, specifically how they got to where they are today. And I know just because I know you, you've done a lot of different things in your life. But what led you now with the Other side Village? Maybe just give us a brief history of your story.
- [05:38]
A
Yeah, I'll try to give you the short elevator, because I don't want.
- [05:41]
B
It's hard, isn't it?
- [05:42]
A
It's tough, yeah. But. But I would say, Gosh, over about 10 years ago, I was a CEO. I've been in a nonprofit, and then I went to a private company to be a CEO there. And there were some things I was missing, and I could. I could tell in my own life that I was missing that. And then out of the blue, lo and behold, I get a call from a friend that says, we are looking for someone that's got your skill set for this particular role. And it was working for a nonprofit organization that was overseeing. They own homeless shelters, resource centers, permanent supportive housing, and they would contract with different providers to run those. And I was like, oh, that sounds really interesting. So I ended up doing that for a couple of years, and that was during a really interesting time in the capital city of Utah, where everything was switching to a different model, a different system, closing down one of the largest homeless shelters and then building three new homeless resource centers and then moving everybody out into that. So I did that, and I learned a lot from that. I learned I talked to a lot of people of things that were working. Well, things that weren't working, whether it's in housing, in shelter. And then that led me to work in behavioral health, where I oversaw a lot of different behavioral health programs. Housing Homelessness programs, mental health programs for adults. And some of the same themes kept coming up. Some of the same things I'm like, this. This is a problem in the system. Things I'm hearing from people on the street of what they would like to see differently. And I had met and was familiar with the Other side Academy, which had started in 2015. They. They bought the old Armstrong mansion on 1st South 17th in Salt Lake City, which I had stayed at when it was a bed and breakfast before. So I was familiar with it. And it was like, who's this new organization? Who. What do they do? And became familiar with them and learned that they're helping people who've had a lifetime of incarceration learn new behaviors and learn a new way of life. And it's a free program, and they pay for it by running social enterprise businesses like a moving company in a thrift store. And so it started off on that kind of journey, and over the course of several years where I got to know them and was referring people there and working on a different project at the time, their leadership approached me and said, we're thinking about building this. This tiny home community called the Other side Village. And it would do this, this, and this. And we think that you would be a good fit for. For someone to come and lead and run this. And so I would say it was more what I call divine choreography, where this just kind of came in front of me. And it just. Of course, it was a lot of questions that I didn't really have answered at the time, but now I see why I'm in the. In the seat that I am.
- [08:21]
B
Well, it's always fascinating to hear the story of what leads somebody to an organization. Your case. Yeah, it's interesting to. To hear that combination of you were looking for something else. And also people were saying, hey, you'd be perfect for this. And. And again, I've seen the results and we're going to get into this, but, yeah, it's obviously been a good fit. You're doing a good job. There's been some really good traction, and you're continuing to get lots of publicity simply because you're. The immeasurable impact has been very real to the Other side Village. So I'm excited to get into this from. With my listener. Couple of. Just quick notes, perhaps, because I know I've been in speaking in a lot of different organizations and we shared about this before we hit record. There's different terms now people use for homelessness. Some people use the word unhoused or unsheltered. And I understand you really prefer right now using the word homeless simply because that's what the people you serve, that's the term they're used to. So for the interview, we'll just use the word homeless for now because that makes the most sense. Again, just sounds like for you're doing and your context. So with that, having said that, the Other side Village challenges the idea that housing alone solves the homelessness problem. So maybe let's dive into that. What problem are you really trying to solve with the Other side Village and your work there?
- [09:32]
A
So obviously, those that have been chronically homeless, that's our focus. And at its core, we're trying to solve a couple of things. First, social isolation. So someone that's isolated for. I mean, that's a lot of people experiencing that hopelessness, obviously mental health, addiction, incarceration, affordable housing, and disconnection. So it's not just homelessness, but it. But we know that housing, it's important. It's part of the equation. But many people, many people that we serve, they've experienced chronic homelessness. They've lost their community, they've lost purpose. They don't have any healthy relationships in their life. And the belief in themselves, it's long like before they. Before they even lost housing, they lost their own belief. And so if all we do is place someone in housing without rebuilding those foundations, those things, we may temporarily stabilize them. So we hear a lot of temporary this or transitional that. There's transitional housing, there's transitional treatment, but we're not creating any sort of lasting transformation. And so what the village is designed to do is create an environment where people can heal in community and rediscover their meaning, their purpose and their responsibility and thrive. That's ultimately what we're trying to do.
- [10:50]
B
Yeah, I love that idea of thriving. That is a great goal and a good purpose. Yeah, I think that's a lot of nonprofit and humanitarian organizations. I love when they focus on the thriving aspect of those who they're serving. So love and resonate with that. Okay, so let's talk about the Other side Village. Because you do some things very uniquely. What makes it fundamentally different, say, than from tradition, homelessness services, or even housing first models, what makes yours really stand out? What makes it different?
- [11:17]
A
So right out of the gate, we didn't just study the problem. We went literally traveled all over the world, different parts of the world, to look at different models, looking at different therapeutic communities, different approaches to how you deal with this population and that. And we landed on a lot of different things to kind of put this puzzle together. And so we know that housing is important, but when you build a house, what do you build first? You build the foundation, right? Not putting the roof on first. So the biggest difference is that we're intentionally human centered instead of not just housing centered. And so some of the traditional systems, they often focus on service delivery. So it's get someone housed, connect them to benefits, assign a case manager, and those things matter. Don't get me wrong, they're super important. But we believe that transformation happens primarily through peer relationships, a shared responsibility, meaningful work, community, culture and purpose. And so when you put all those things together, it starts to make sense for people. People start to change their thinking and they re what we call recalibrate their moral compass. And at the village, neighbors aren't, they're not just recipients of services, so they become active participants in a community. Yes, we emphasize accountability, we emphasize contribution, we emphasize recovery support and relationship building. And so the goal is not to just help people survive, it's to help people thrive and maintain that self sufficiency. So one of the unique aspects is our entire coaching team has lived experience. Some of those staff live on site, and we also operate some social enterprise businesses that provide on the job training, they provide employment opportunities and it also generates revenue so that we can support our ongoing operations. That way we don't have to rely on government funding.
- [13:03]
B
Oh, and that's so important, right? With all the funding cuts, particularly from the federal level, that's becoming more and more important for nonprofits to find other streams of support. So that smart on your end? You mentioned this already, but I want to lean into this and maybe double click as people say. You emphasize accountability, community and purpose. Why are those elements so critical, would you say for long term change with those you're serving?
- [13:26]
A
So for someone who's experienced chronic homelessness, what we've learned is they've survived years of trauma, they have addiction, sometimes there's institutionalization that's involved, obviously rejection, there's untreated mental illness. And so over time, people, people can begin to internalize this belief that they no longer matter. And so community for us helps restore that identity. And accountability helps restore self respect, the purpose and work and self reliance. It gives people a reason to keep moving forward. And what I've seen and what I witnessed is when, when people are surrounded by peers who have, who believe in them, they challenge them. That's when real change becomes possible. And healing is harder to. It's hard to See, when it's in isolation, and I witnessed that in. In homeless shelters and some different housing programs that I've. That I've been a part of, where people isolate and they rarely come out of their house. We don't let them. They can't just sit idle.
- [14:30]
B
That's fascinating. No, I love that. Again, I resonate with that in your approach. Now, there's no doubt when it comes to homelessness and homelessness policies, a lot of different people have strong opinions one way or the other on it. So when it comes to that and the impact you've had, but I'm sure some of. Maybe pushback, some questions you have from your perspective, what are we getting right? Let's just focus on that for now. What are we getting right and what are we getting wrong? Number two, as a society when it comes to this issue of homelessness. Because I'm thinking like every major city in the United States has this issue, right? And different cities are dealing with it better than others. But what are we getting right from a society perspective? And then what are we getting wrong from society's perspective? Maybe start with what's. What we're doing right?
- [15:16]
A
Yeah. Well, I think we've done a better job. I think here in Utah, we, in recent years, we're recognizing homelessness, that it's. It's deeply connected to trauma and mental health and addiction and poverty and these systemic breakdowns. So it's. It's gotten a much broader emphasis and approach. I think one of the things. One of the things that I think we're. We often get wrong is it's. We're treating homelessness primarily as a. As a housing logistics problem instead of this human relationship problem. We know housing matters, right? We know that housing alone is rarely enough to keep people who have experienced this. Years of instability and disconnection to keep them going. And so in some cases, we've built these systems with low expectation, and there's very little community integration, and that leaves people isolated even after they're housed. So I think. I think now really the challenge is finding the right balance. You got to find a balance between compassion and accountability, autonomy and support and dignity and structure. Because accountability and compassion go hand in hand. It's not compassionate to just walk past someone on the street with a needle in their arm and expect them to get better, you know, and just say, oh, let's. What was you like? Really, the compassion part is to help that person and connect them with some services and hold them accountable if they're breaking the law, if they're if they're camping illegally, then, you know, we need to, we need to hold people accountable.
- [16:50]
B
We'll be right back. Are you looking for an easy and effective way to boost your nonprofit's donations? Well, look no further than Donorbox, the online fundraising platform that streamlines your fundraising efforts, maximizes donations, and simplifies giving for your supporters. With Donorbox, you can create beautiful donation forms, accept digital wallet payments, track donations, and send auto receipts. And the best part, there are no setup or monthly fees and no long term contracts required. So what are you waiting for? Visit donorbox.org today to get started. That is www.donorbox.org.
- [17:32]
A
Yeah.
- [17:32]
B
Okay, so talk more about that because I think that that's you getting to the heart of it. I think where there's controversy, if you want to call that, or just disagreement. Where does accountability and compassion overlap? Right. Maybe some people lean one way or the other when it comes to homelessness. How do you strike that balance? And where is it maybe a time where you maybe went too far one way or the other?
- [17:55]
A
Yeah, I mean, when you have people who are on the street and we're not helping them, we're not connecting them, and law enforcement may just be hand tied on what they can do because, you know, the jails are full or I, I know it's just going to be a catch and release. And so it's like this, it's this vicious spin cycle, as I call it, where people are, they may get arrested and then they're out the next day. What have we done in that, in that time period other than cost taxpayer dollars? What are we doing on the front end? You know, obviously prevention. We can do a much better job on prevention. But if we're to say, you know, let's just build everyone a house and give everyone a house, it's not going to solve the problem.
- [18:35]
B
Interesting. Okay, so just getting people in homes doesn't necessarily solve it. Give me more of the, the data. What have you found? Why is that the case? Just play devil's advocate. Why isn't that the solution?
- [18:46]
A
Yeah. If you ask any resident that lives at the village today, if they've had housing before, 99% of them say, yeah, I've had housing, I just didn't know how to keep it. I lost it. For whatever reason, I lost it or I burned every bridge in the, in my social network and I can't go to any of my family members or friends. And so that's what's keeping me on the street. And once they get, they go down that road, then all these other factors come into play. Sometimes it's addiction, sometimes it's trafficking. And when you, when those things are in front of you, a lot of times there's, there's no way out. And I hear that every day from people that we're talking to is, I just feel like I'm another number. If I go into, to get services, they don't ask me my name. It's what's your case number? So I'm just a case number.
- [19:35]
B
Right.
- [19:35]
A
And so it's building those relationships with people on the street so that we can connect them. And the village isn't for everybody. Don't get me wrong, it's not a catch all for everybody. But if someone's hit rock bottom and they want to, they want to change their life and they want to learn a new way of life, then the village is definitely a good option.
- [19:54]
B
Well, good. Well, let's talk about that. Like the typical journey, you know, if someone who comes in, they hear about the other side village, how do they build, build those relationships? What does it look like for the peer culture that they experience when they walk through? Give us an idea of the journey from the beginning, maybe into the, the life of someone who lives there full time.
- [20:12]
A
Yeah. So the journey starts where we make a connection with someone. It could be on the street, it could be in a shelter, it could be in a, in a library. It could be a, a referral call from mom, dad, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, whoever. But most people arrive. We have what's called our prep school, which is the on ramp to the village. So you start there and that's where you'll stabilize and that's where you'll learn and unlearn some of those behaviors that have kept you on the street for a long time. So they, they arrive with, with distrust. They arrive with survival behavior. And we connect them with a coach who has shared lived experience. You know, they're just farther removed from that lifestyle. But they've been homeless. They, they know what it's like to panhandle and do the things that pretty much happens when you're living on the street. So we focus on, on helping people feel safe, feel welcomed and connect them to community and help them start to learn and use their voice. And so from there, our neighbors, so they're not clients, they're our neighbors. They begin engaging in those daily rhythms of village life. So meetings, group meetings, shared responsibilities, might be some chores around the house, making sure your room is clean, your bed's made, you're picking up after yourself, you're showering, your hygiene is good, building some relationships, and then also peer support. And what makes the biggest difference for us is culture. So the people are surrounded by others who have this lived experience, others who have struggled. They challenge each other to grow. The peer culture creates both support and accountability. And so over time, people shift from surviving day to day to seeing themselves as contributors. They see themselves as a leader, they see themselves as a community member again. And they feel seen. And you know what? My voice matters because we operate what's called a democratic therapeutic community. Democratic, meaning you have a voice and a vote and a say, Rob, in our community, just like I do. So if we're going to create a new rule that might be on cell phone usage, we're going to talk about it, we're going to debate it, and then we're going to vote on it and the community votes. And that's, that's, that's how we operate.
- [22:30]
B
That's interesting. So everyone has a vote essentially for different things, whether creating rules or policies.
- [22:37]
A
Yeah, I mean, when we were creating the rules of the village, an example would be a pet policy. What is a pet policy going to look like? Okay, we're going to allow pets. What kind of pets? We're going to allow every dog breed, big dogs, small dogs, this one, that one. And over time we call it co production. So this co production, this co creation model of it's super creative because they can come up with, the community can come up with much more creative ideas and workarounds for things that some of the government regulations and rules would just be a no. It's a hard no. It's like, nope, can't do it that way. So we've gotta, we've gotta operate this way. So that's a really unique feature of the other side is how we operate democratically.
- [23:19]
B
Interesting. Okay, well, and that kind of gets me to the next question. I was curious when people, and I'm particularly thinking of donors, maybe volunteers that check out the other side village and they actually participate in the community, see it up close and personal, what surprises people the most when they come and experience village?
- [23:34]
A
They're surprised. People are surprised by how normal and relational and joyful it feels. They expect to see like a service program or, you know, the traditional, maybe it's like a I'm not here to pick on the dmv, but like some sort of I'm going to be waiting in line type of model. And instead they encounter a real community. They encounter people that are hanging out together, they're working, they're laughing, they're helping each other, they're holding each other accountable. We call it a pull up. And we're building relationships. So it could be, hey, Rob, you left your coke can on the table there. Can you pick that up? And the culture is. Yeah, of course I can. Thanks for reminding me instead of giving me some highbrow and, and question my why I'm asking you that. So it's. They're super surprised by just how warm it is. And it's very common what people say, man, there's such a different feeling here. And in the year and a half that we've been. In the year and a half that we've been in an operation where residents are living at the village, we have not had one police call to law enforcement for any incidents. Not one.
- [24:39]
B
Wow. Seriously? Wow. Yeah. That's unusual.
- [24:43]
A
Completely. And from my background and working in it, that's usually a daily, or at least a weekly incident where something happens.
- [24:50]
B
That's a rare, unusual.
- [24:51]
C
Okay.
- [24:52]
B
So the, the sense when you walk in, there's just, it's a community, people are connecting. It's interesting. Keep going back to accountability. Sounds like accountability that they each, the, the residents keep each other accountable. So it's not just in a sense a top down, it's peer to peer with the accountability. Is that what you're seeing?
- [25:10]
A
Absolutely. It's top down, it's democratic. So a resident can pull me up just like I would them. So if, if I'm doing something they don't like, they'll say, hey, Preston, I didn't like the way you, you reacted to this comment or whatever it might be. So there should be no resistance from anybody to be able to call each other out on their, on their behavior and actions.
- [25:32]
B
Okay. Now I'm sure you've experienced criticism because what you're doing is difficult. As we said, it's controversial. People have different opinions on what to do and how to solve the homelessness issue. What criticisms or maybe even setbacks have you faced and then how have you resolved them?
- [25:47]
A
Yeah, I think the first criticism when people said, you know, this isn't going to work for people that have been homeless. And I think, you know, the other side academy has a very high success rate as far as outcomes. So when we look at what our outcomes are, it's tracking drug free, crime free and employed. So a huge, a very successful model. And so when we applied that same methodology and some of those principles when we were starting the other side village it's, this isn't going to work for people that have mental health. And for us, we call it that. We call it the soft bigotry of low expectations. Why would you expect that they're any different from you? If we're applying this, we know this model works. Why wouldn't it work for this population? And we've proven a lot of the naysayers wrong. And oftentimes when I have someone that questions it, I'll say, well, you talk to them like, I've never been homeless. But why don't you talk to these 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 people who have, who are all going to tell you otherwise. And for us, it's the proof is in the people. Like, I can talk to him blue in the face about it, but here's what actually worked for someone. And so for us, it's. It's that that proof is in the people.
- [26:54]
B
Interesting. Okay. Yeah, that's fascinating. And that, yeah, that's right. I mean, I think of any nonprofit, you want to have measurable results, right? Whether it be how many people you fed that are hungry, how many homes you built for those who can't afford homes. And in your case, yeah, you're creating this village. You've got people, actual people's lives, their, this community. And, and they can tell the story of what they're experiencing.
- [27:16]
A
Yeah, yeah, we, we have, we have individuals who are running and leading some of our social enterprises who a year, two years ago, were, were living on the street. Now they're managing, they're leading, they're doing accounting, they're doing hiring, they're doing presentations, they're writing proposals. You name it, they're doing it. And yeah, and so you got to be able to give people, again, the right purpose, the right environment and the right mentors around them. Because if you're my mentor, I'm going to come to you and be like, hey, Rob, I'm going through this today. This is what's happened to me. And you'd be like, yep, I know exactly what you're going through versus someone in a white coat that's saying, well, I think this is what's going on with you. Let's maybe look at this medication or that medication, which that's not the answer for some. Obviously, we want to make sure we're using medications appropriately. And so to stabilize people. Some come in undermedicated, over medicated. And so it's striking that right balance with people.
- [28:14]
B
Well, maybe for my listeners, share about a couple of the social enterprises that you offer and run there that help again generate income for the residents.
- [28:23]
A
Yeah. So our first many Utah residents are familiar with the Other side Academy. So they run the Other side Moving company, which is the number one rated moving company in Utah. They run some thrift boutiques, they run the Other side Builders, the Other side Storage. So those are all run by the Other side Academy. We realized up front that a lot of our folks that we work with who have disabilities, physical disabilities, a moving company is probably not the best social enterprise for the population. So we said, okay, what can we work with? We landed on the Other side Donuts. So people can work in a bakery, people can decorate donuts, people can work in the donut shop. So if you, if you're in Poplar Grove, if you're near 8 South and Redwood Road, it's hard to miss our flagship First Other side Donut store which is there. And it's run and managed and operated by individuals who are either in the program or have graduated from the Other side prep school and are now living in the Village. So started out with the first shop, we're opening two new locate locations. One in July and one in August. One downtown and one up on the University of Utah campus.
- [29:34]
B
Oh wow.
- [29:34]
A
So two new locations. And then we also operate the Other side Foods, which is a food manufacturing and freeze dried food business. And that's just our website's just launching on that. So the Other side Foods. And then here at the Other side Village, we're building what's called the Other side innovation, which are 21 unique, uniquely themed smaller cottage style homes that the general public can rent. So the next time you're in Salt Lake and you want to come have a really cool experience, come come stay here at the Other side Village and choose from 21 uniquely themed homes. Whether it's a train caboose or an a frame or a log cabin or a Mexican casita or whatever. So you go on the website and be able to choose from those. So what's cool about that is some of the residents that live at the Village, they're just getting their certificate in hospitality. So they're going to be doing reservations, booking, guest services, housekeeping, concierge, all of that. So that'll be launching here soon. And then of course we have a list of other ones in the works. But we also operate the Other side Community Center. So on the west side we have a 200 seat community center space that people can rent out for different events and venues or we've held concerts here. There's a church that rents it on Sunday. We've had all sorts of symposiums and workshops and so non profits can use that for galas or fundraisers, things like that. We're partnering with Homemade Utah to host the annual diaper drive next month. So that'll be exciting.
- [31:14]
B
That's a huge deal. Yeah, we've been for the organization I used to lead, benefited from that. It's a big deal. People really come out and support that.
- [31:21]
A
That's great. Yeah, so we're hosting that here. Excited for that. Hopefully it gives us a good idea of the things that we're working on. Again, the goal is to create a. Those are the learning labs. That's where people are learning skills and workforce development and training and on the job training. And that's really the classroom, but it's the behavior because you know your, your good end behaviors come out in the workplace and so that's a place to practice those skills and behaviors that you're learning.
- [31:48]
B
Well, that leads me to my next question. I was going to ask about how do you measure success individually? We'll talk about your group and organization as a whole. But individually, how do you measure success for each resident or neighbor in the village?
- [32:02]
A
Yeah, we've, we've narrowed it down to four critical categories. That being is pretty easy. Permanently housed. If you can maintain housing, employed or self reliant. Some people could work full time, some can work part time, some may not be able to work at all. So self reliant, how can we make sure that you're able to be self reliant and then drug free and crime free. So those four things, permanently housed, self reliant or employed, drug free and crime free. The way that we maintain a drug free and sober environment is we do regular drug testing, staff, staff included, and then making sure that people are following the law and following the rules within the village. So those, those are the four critical areas that we track as far as success. Yeah.
- [32:50]
B
Okay, now let's expand that to the organization itself. If you were to kind of project the next five, even ten years, if your model continues to work, where would you see the other side village, say five, ten years even from now?
- [33:04]
A
Yeah, I mean success would mean we've demonstrated that this human centered model, this human first model that we've, that we've created creates a better long term outcomes than systems built solely around housing placement or crisis response. So I'd love to see people not only just remain housed but, but reconnect with family, maintain their recovery, become employed, maybe start a business, develop some Leadership, experience that real belonging. Because once you reach the village, it's like you've what I say you've reached base camp. You've reached base camp, but there's still a long climb ahead of you. So, so long term, I hope the other side village helps shift the national conversation around homelessness, not just from managing symptoms to ultimately rebuilding this human connection in community. So if we can do it, and if other cities begin adapting similar models that are rooted in the same philosophies and purpose, this pure culture, I think that would be incredibly meaningful. And that's happening right here in the state of Utah.
- [34:09]
B
Well, it's interesting to say that. So do you feel like, have you already gotten enough attention from other cities around the country that say, hey, we want to lean in, Tell us more what you're doing. Your model seems to be working. Are you already getting that at this point?
- [34:21]
A
We are. We've been getting a lot of national attention. We've been featured on npr. We've been featured on some, some national outlets. We hosted a workshop here at the National League of Cities conference last year. Over 200 cities come and visit and walk through and see it, and constantly talking to other states and other leaders that are working on this and trying to figure out what might work in their own backyard. So we're an open playbook. We're happy to share. We host groups here and, and talk about what we're doing. And obviously we're, we're learning too. We're, we're staying innovative and we constantly are turning the dial left or right, however notches we need to do to make sure that we're, we're doing a better job than, than we were yesterday.
- [35:06]
B
Well, again, thank you for being on the show. I mean, there is, it's so interesting that you are doing some things just slightly different. You're trying to create your own uniqueness there and you're responding obvious to local needs as well. But it's fascinating that you are having so much success. Other people are saying, hey, we want to see this applied to our city or our state. And it is such an issue. I've had multiple people on the show that are doing similar work because the unhoused and homeless situation is a big one. And it seems to be certain cities is growing. And so to come up with a good model that really seems to hit at the heart of the human, at the center of everything is this, this human centered approach seems to me, to me a really good approach. And obviously you're seeing great results. So, so for my listeners, if they want to connect more and they want to learn more about the Other side Village and, or just connect with you, where would you send them? How best can they connect with you?
- [35:57]
A
Yeah, our website is theotherside village.com obviously social media, the Other side Village. You can Find me on LinkedIn. Happy to connect, happy to have a conversation. And thank you so much for the opportunity to share our work and highlight what we're doing here. And it's a pleasure to be with you. And thanks for listening.
- [36:15]
B
Well, again, thanks for your work because it's hard work. It's not easy. You do get criticism, as you mentioned, but you're obviously making a real impact and a difference. And again, I'm just lucky because I live in Utah and I hear about it quite a bit. So way to go. And thanks for taking time to share some of the things you're learning along the way and things that maybe haven't worked, but things that really are working and you've learned both of those things along the way. And for my listeners, I'm going to put a bunch of links in the show notes. I encourage you to hit those links. Find out a little bit more about Preston. Find out more about the Other side Village, because this is an issue again, all around the country, let alone the world, but certainly right here in the United States, there's plenty of cities struggling with the same issue that right now Salt Lake and the surrounding area within Utah is dealing with. And so finding models that work, finding nonprofits that seem to be really turning the dial on this issue of the Hunter House population, the homelessness issue that we're all dealing with. I think it's worth the look. So I encourage you to check it out. It's fascinating. And you'll get to learn a little bit more about Preston as well. He's been on quite a bit of interviews and other podcasts, so you'll get to hear a little bit more of what he's doing in his vision. So once again, Preston, thanks for taking time to be on the show today.
- [37:23]
A
Thanks, Dr. Harvard.
- [37:24]
B
Good to be with you. Hey, friends. Well, I wanted you to know that this podcast can be found on itunes, Spotify, Amazon, Google podcasts, and wherever you listen to other podcasts. I also want to encourage you to like, like subscribe and share this podcast with others. This will actually help us get this great content out to more nonprofit leaders just like you. You can also join the nonprofit leadership podcast community, find other resources and interviews of past guests, all on my website. Nonprofit leadershippodcast.org well, thanks again for listening, and until next time, keep making your world better. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox Donor Box, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business.