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Nonprofit Leadership Podcast
Are Relationships at the Core of Your Nonprofit?
00:32:27
In this episode of the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast, host Dr. Rob Harter speaks with Rabbi Joanna Samuels, CEO and President of the Marlene Meyerson ...
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- [00:02]
Dr. Rob Harder
This is Dr. Rob Harder with the Nonprofit Leadership podcast, Making youg World Better. What does it take to be an effective nonprofit leader today? What are the biggest challenges? What are the biggest obstacles? How should nonprofits fundraise in an economy that is constantly changing? All these reasons combined led me to start this show. And it's my hope that through this series, people can learn not only what it takes to be an effective nonprofit organization, but to hear from effective leaders who are. Who are successfully making a positive impact in their communities. We hope you enjoy the show as together we hear how they are making their world better.
- [00:37]
Rabbi Joanna Samuels
Welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in today. If I were to ask you the question, in your role as a leader at your nonprofit organization, what is it the very foundation of what you do? In other words, what is your organization really about? At the end of the day, I wonder what your answer would be.
- [00:56]
Dr. Rob Harder
Service, perhaps?
- [00:57]
Rabbi Joanna Samuels
Justice? Advocacy? What about friendship? Well, my guest today on the show would say that among all the things she does and her organization does, at the core of it all is friendship. I actually really resonate with her answer. My guest today is Rabbi Joanna Samuels, the CEO and president of the Marlene Myerson JCC in Manhattan. It is the largest JCC in the country, serving over 3,500 people each day. And Rabbi Samuels and I will share and talk about leadership in general, and she'll specifically share about her leadership style, how that shapes her decision making. She'll also talk about some of the challenges she has faced and continues to face, namely, not only the aftermath of COVID 19, but the events of October 7th and how both of these experiences really have significantly impacted the Jewish community and, and her leadership within it. I think you're going to really enjoy hearing from Rabbi Samuels and just how she approaches her leadership style and her position and the difference she is making in New York and beyond. As always, so glad you're tuning in today. Now, onto the show.
- [02:09]
Dr. Rob Harder
This podcast is sponsored by Donorbox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business.
- [02:17]
Rabbi Joanna Samuels
Well, welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast, Rabbi. Thank you so much for being on the show today. I'm excited to talk a bit more about what you do. You have a very unique role there at the Marlene Myerson JCC in Manhattan. So maybe you could do this for my listener sake. Give us a bit of the mission there. And how long have you been serving there? What is your role?
- [02:39]
Well, first of all, I am very proud to be the CEO here at the Marlene Meyerson JCC Manhattan. And I have been in this role three and a half years, so definitely enough time to know my way around and know all the things that I want to do and even some of the things that I'm not able to do. The JCC of Manhattan is one of the busiest. You say it's one of the busiest Jewish doorways in the entire city. What that means is that in this 13 story vertical village, people are here all hours of the day taking part in activities that range from swim classes for babies to older adult programming, to Hebrew language instruction, to after school activities for children to 20s and 30s, singles events and everything in between that I haven't even yet mentioned. But several thousand people are in our building every day and it's a busy, wonderful, vibrant, and very happy place to be.
- [03:46]
I love hearing that. That's wonderful. And you do so much good work from what I've read. And I do want to focus our conversation, of course, on leadership. This is a nonprofit leadership podcast, of course, all face leaders leadership challenges. As leaders, we face these difficult challenges. When we're leading organizations, we're leading people. So I'm curious, maybe that's what we can now begin to launch in. From your experience there's at the jcc, what are some of the unique challenges and opportunities you've encountered by leading a nonprofit organization that specifically emerges from your faith? In other words, what ways has your personal faith journey influenced your leadership style and the goals you have set for JCC Manhattan?
- [04:26]
Yeah, my religious identity and my faith guides every single thing that I do. It sort of courses through my body like blood or cells. It just is there. And so if I can identify some values that come out of that faith, I would say first and foremost, I have faith in the world. And that makes me an optimistic person and an optimistic leader. I tend to feel problems can be solved, people can be brought around, and, and that progress can be made. And that comes from, again, my experience as a Jewish woman, my understanding of Jewish history, and my belief in the ways in which we are deployed by the Holy One to operate in this world. And I would say it's also a good leadership skill to be optimistic, because when a leader can be optimistic, it brings other people around a little bit more easily. And optimism is not something that's false or fake. I mean, I wouldn't claim things that aren't true, but I do legitimately and authentically often see progress where many people don't.
- [05:48]
Yeah, I like your positivity though, and I appreciate you sharing about, wanting to integrate your faith into your leadership style. I've had many guests on the show that have talked about their own faith and how that does impact, impact and shape how they lead. And you've got a unique combination. As you mentioned, you're not only a Jewish leader, but you're a female rabbi, which puts you in, I think, probably some rare categories. Congratulations, by the way. Tell me about that. Has that also shaped the role you're in? Specifically coming at it from a female rabbi's perspective, what has been some of the things that you have really enjoyed about the training you received and then how you could apply that to your role there in Manhattan?
- [06:29]
Yeah, well, there's my family, and I have a joke, which is that every time we're walking down a street in New York City and we run into some woman, my kids will look at me and say, mommy, don't tell me she's a rabbi. You went to rabbinical school with her. You know her from somewhere else. You know, female rabbis seem very unique to some people, but when you live that life, you think every rabbi is female, and you have, you know, kids who wonder if they're actually men who are rabbis. So I do feel, still, I think, the privilege of what it means to be able to serve in a religious capacity and to serve a faith community as a female leader, because that's not something that was particularly common in prior generations. The fact that it's normative now is sort of, you know, it's a good chuckle for my kids, but it's actually pretty amazing. And it's pretty amazing in general that Jewish women not only are rabbis and cantors and other leaders, but that we have been given access. We have taken access to our sacred texts and traditions and engage ourselves in the study of those texts and in the teaching of those texts in a way that would have been unimaginable centuries ago. And so I feel that sense of gratitude and specialness and the sense of, like, wanting to kind of click your heels three times and say, oh, is this the life that I get to live, being engaged in this religious community as a leader with these sacred texts, with these sacred traditions at my fingertips?
- [08:14]
Yeah. Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that personal example. And you've already kind of touched on this a little bit. But when you think about the character traits and personal qualities you lean into as a leader that really help you lead your organization most effectively. What would be some of those character traits and personal qualities that you just continue to go to, to really help you become the leader that you've Become now.
- [08:37]
Well, again, I'll quote one of my children. When my son was in first or second grade, he was given an assignment when his class was learning about parts of speech like nouns and verbs and adjectives. And the assignment he was given was that he had to think of a person in his life and come up with two adjectives to describe that person. And he decided that I would be the person. And that he decided that the two adjectives that best described me were kind and bossy.
- [09:11]
Okay, Good combination, children.
- [09:14]
Right. So those are two things that are part of my leadership, right. Which is that I feel the blessing and the gratitude to be doing the work that I do. And I hope that that makes me kind and appreciative and celebratory of the people around me. And I'm bossy. I have a sense of the way I want things to be. I have a sense of how a community can best function, how we can deploy resources in a way that brings about the result that we want. And I'm like a dog with a bone. Like, I'm gonna. I'm gonna get there. So kind and bossy.
- [10:00]
Okay, Kind and bossy. There you go. All right. Well, then, as we narrow down, when you think about leadership traits, I've talked to a lot of leaders on about various leadership traits that people find most essential to fulfilling responsibility. As a CEO or executive director, maybe, besides being kind and bossy, what are the other leadership traits that you feel like are really essential when it comes to leading a nonprofit as a CEO or executive director? And then how do you cultivate them in your work?
- [10:27]
I think the first quality, and this is something that I am always working on, is really listening, really, really listening and taking my own reactions and my own feelings almost physically out of the space when I listen. Because if someone is speaking and they're saying something that I might feel challenged by or makes me feel defensive, then what I'm doing when I'm so called listening is I am actually instead coming up with the reason why that person is wrong or why they don't understand or the information that they need. And I'm not quieting my own mind enough to actually learn something new. And I think that the times when I am able to do that, I can be at my best as a leader. And the times when I'm not listening, either because I'm distracted or because I'm triggered or because I'm feeling defensive or times when I'm not at my best, another quality of leadership, perhaps conversely to what I just said is decisiveness, the ability to assimilate a lot of information and make a decision. And to make a decision knowing that not everyone will necessarily agree with that decision or like that decision or support it. But understanding that part of the role of leadership is to move things forward. And you can't do that unless you make decisions.
- [12:05]
You know, it's interesting. Back to the leadership quality of listening. I completely agree with you. I think it's, as I think back, some of the best leaders that I know and I've worked with and I think about the traits that have even served me really well in my role as CEO and executive director. Listing, I think, is one of the most underrated leadership qualities. Why do you think it's not highlighted more in books or when people talk about leadership? I would not say it's always the number one thing that you would hear about from people when they talk about leadership qualities. What would you think that is and why have you just seen it again, that leading through listing is so critical?
- [12:42]
That's a great question. I think it's hard to commodify listening. It's easy to commodify making a big statement or making a big speech or being the smartest person in the room. Those are traits that we often associate with leadership. And sometimes those are traits associated with leadership. And sometimes they are stand ins for leadership. Sometimes you're just the things that we do because we know how to do those things. And that sometimes leadership is about what you don't say and the space that you create of quiet and contemplation and the space that you create where both yourself and the people around you can think a little bit more quietly or slowly so that you get to a better outcome. And I would say, particularly as a woman, I think there's probably added pressure to succeed in these more performative elements of leadership, like making statements, like being the smartest person in the room, all of those things. Because there's already a natural bias that makes people think that women are less effective as leaders. And so it's something that we have to fight against. Right? Because actually listening, quieting your mind, slowing down your thought processes is often going to lead to a better decision, a better outcome, or even just the experience of people around you being able to take up space in a way that they need to.
- [14:34]
Dr. Rob Harder
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- [15:17]
Rabbi Joanna Samuels
And as I think about the context within which you lead, tell us a little bit more about the diverse population you serve, because I understand, I've read about your work, you serve a wide variety of people. How have you successfully ensured that your programs and services are inclusive, are responsive to the varied needs and backgrounds of members because you serve such a variety of people? It's pretty impressive actually. So talk a little bit more about how you've done that.
- [15:42]
So I think there are two parts of the DNA of the JCC that help us to do that. The first is that we are driven and led by our community. When people come to us, they might say something like, you know, you have wonderful programs for older adults, but my parents are facing a challenge where one of my parents has memory loss and my other parent is overwhelmed as a caregiver to that person. And then you start to listen and you hear that from 10 more people and you think, okay, how can we create some kind of program or opportunity that supports people who are living in this stage of life, which by the way will be, please God, all of us, right? Getting older and seeing certain limitations that we never could have imagined. And so we listen really carefully to the community and we try to create programming in partnership with them that fulfills their needs and their aspirations. And so that's just like a perfect way to be relevant. Because if you're listening to people and you're providing the feedback loop that says, I hear you, I hear what you're asking for, here's what we can offer, then you're going to get pretty close. I think the second piece around welcoming probably comes from two strongly held Jewish values. The first is the value of what we say in Hebrew is that people are b elohim, they are made in God's image. And that puts an enormous responsibility and burden on each one of us to be treating our fellow human beings with the knowledge that they're created in God's image. And so that means across the ranges of age and ability and culture and race and religion and background, that the obligation that we have is how is that person in some way a reflection of God in this world? The second value of Jewish life that we hold very, very dear is the value of hahnasat or chim, the welcoming of guests, which the Jewish tradition is considered an obligation. You must welcome guests and you must make people feel at home in your space. And so we work very hard to do that. And if you're a person who is able bodied, we're going to work hard to make sure that you're making your way through our building. If you're a person who uses a wheelchair, we are going to work hard to make sure that you're making your way through our building with a sense of ease. And so I think that's probably our secret sauce, right. Is that we're listening to the community and that we're also leading with these values of welcome and love and dignity that help us to hold our community in a place of enormous respect and gratitude.
- [19:06]
I like those values and I like how you explain both of those. And it leads me to this next question, because I know you've gone through some difficult challenges, as we all have. Share a little bit more about the experience of stepping into a leadership role during times of real global turmoil. First of all, COVID 19 pandemic, it really wasn't only a few years ago, Right. And then, of course, you had October 7th for the Jewish community was just a major issue to work through. How have you guided the organization through those times and even now into the future? Tell us about some of the challenges you faced and what you learned from that.
- [19:41]
When I started this role in January 2022, we were really still in the throes of COVID and there was almost no one in the building. I had led a community center prior to being in this job for nine years. And so I sort of felt like, okay, I know how to run a community center. And one day I was looking out the window and I thought, well, I know how to run a community center, but not if no one comes. I actually don't know how to do this work if everyone is going to spend the rest of their lives on their couch. And so I pushed very aggressively to bring everyone back in person, staff, participants. We stopped doing things on Zoom, and not everyone was happy because it's actually our sofas are very comfortable places to be, but it turns out that they're actually not very comfortable places for us to be. Because what we learned coming out of COVID is that the social isolation, physical isolation, these are things that are very, very bad for people. And the ability to kind of throw open our doors and say, we are back and we want you back with us, was very powerful. And I'm very proud that we were able to do that. So that was the first crisis. And once I felt like, okay, you know, they're finally. We're getting towards the numbers in the building that we used to have, like, in 2019. And I see our way out of this, and, you know, things are starting to be really crowded here again. And then October 7th happened, and that was an inflection point. It is an inflection point for the Jewish community worldwide. Israel, North America, Europe, everywhere that Jews live. And for whatever reason, I was very quick to see that. I think within, like, an hour of seeing what had happened, I really had this sense that things are not going to be the same for a very long time, and that we, as a nimble organization, had the capacity to be deeply responsive. And so, really, within two days, we shifted all of our programming. We added hundreds of programming that was both related to the situation in Israel, but also related to the questions of Jewish peoplehood in this country and across the world. We created programming that helped to hold people in a time of enormous trauma and to help people, to model for people that in difficult times, the best place to be is with other people. And so our building was just packed in those weeks and months afterwards. And I think that it accelerated the sense of crowded, bustling fullness that continues to this day. I think what it means to lead a Jewish institution right now is to understand that in the words of a friend of mine who wrote a beautiful essay before the Jewish holiday of Passover, that as Jews, we had this kind of vacation from living in history that lasted certainly for my lifetime. I mean, I. I grew up in New York in the 70s and 80s and thought that anti Semitism was some strange thing that people would talk about. You know, it was like talking about dinosaurs. And that the vacation from history that we have experienced as Jews in this country is over. It doesn't mean our lives are not beautiful and wonderful and full of meaning and full of joy, or that terrible things are around the corner. Right? I don't believe Jews, any of those things. And I would say that we are living in a way that our ancestors would have found quite familiar, which is thinking about our safety a little bit differently, thinking about who our allies are a little bit differently, thinking about places where we can be our full selves a little bit differently. And so what it's meant to me to lead a Jewish organization in this moment is to be keenly aware of that and to say, you know, the fact is, we have to be together. We have to be able to create a kind of safety, emotional safety, spiritual safety, physical safety for our community. And we can't forget who we are and what our responsibilities are to this beautiful city in which we live, which is made up of people of every corner of the earth, every background, and that these people are also our responsibility to care for and think about and advocate for. And to give up, that is to give up a core part actually of what Jewish responsibility is.
- [25:02]
It's so fascinating to hear that. And would you say COVID 19 or the events from October 7th, what has had the more negative impact on the Jewish community? I'm assuming the October 7th attacks, but tell me more about that. In terms of long lasting impact, negatively, what would you say has impacted your community the most?
- [25:22]
It's so interesting, actually. I think we don't really understand the impacts of COVID fully yet. Just the kind of the social isolation, the dependence on our phones, the. The greater prevalence of social media feeds that tell us exactly what they want us to know. I just think, like, I don't know if that's a Covid thing or what, but that is the world that we're living in. And it's a world that makes it easy for us to believe that we are very, very different from each other. Right? That the world is kind of made up of these extremes that don't share a whole mass of kind of silent agreement in the middle. And I think Covid kind of accelerated that trend and that is not healthy for Jews and it's not healthy for human beings. The fact is people probably have much more in common than they have not in common. And living in a media and social media landscape that keeps promoting extreme viewpoints on the left, on the right, whatever is corrosive, I think, to our sense of shared citizenship. I think this is bad for the Jews and I think it is bad for human beings. So I would say that about COVID I think October 7th, I think we also don't know what the result is yet, except that we know the world is different. The war is still going on, hostages are still in Gaza, and Israel and its neighbors have yet to find a path to a more peaceful and secure future. And as long as that is going on, Jews around the world are sleeping with one eye open. And it's very, very hard to kind of go back to, quote, unquote, normal life. I just met back from Israel early Sunday morning, and I got there a week before and right before I landed a missile from Yemen hit the airport. And it was sort of like I landed and I looked at my phone and there were all these texts like, are you okay? Welcome to Israel. I'm thinking, why is everyone texting me? This is so strange. And then I heard what had happened, right? Like, so these are not normal times that. That we're living in, and we haven't gotten. Unfortunately, tragically, we haven't gotten to the end of this horrible violence that is just terrible for everyone in the region. And I hope that we do soon. What I heard from every Israeli I spoke to was that the war needs to end. You need to figure out how to have peaceful lives and just do the normal things that people do and not have to land in the airport and hear that There's a missile 300 yards away that thankfully missed the Runway. Right. So it's not normal.
- [28:28]
No. No. Wow. Well, I'm glad you were safe and glad you made it back. Okay, back to the jcc. Looking ahead, what is your vision for the future and how do you hope to expand the organization's impact not only on the Jewish community, but beyond just everybody you serve in the ent. Entire area?
- [28:48]
So I think one part of the answer is just to keep doing what we do. I keep saying, like, every crisis that happens, whether it's Covid or October 7th or people are upset about, you know, politics nationally or in our city, each one of them becomes a proof text for why the JCC should exist. Like people say to us, I feel so lonely coming out of COVID I need to be at the JCC. I feel so vulnerable coming out of October 7th. I need to be in Jewish community. I feel like all the institutions around us feel very, very wobbly right now. I need to be in a place that's positive and healthy and friendly, where people are seen as sacred humans that they are. And so I think, not to dodge the question, but it's kind of like less about what is the JCC going to do, and it's more like, how is this chaos going to continue in the world? And how are we going to keep showing up as the place where people feel stimulated, safe, connected, seen visible, all of these kinds of things. And, you know, that will look different from year to year, decade to decade, but that's our core purpose. And I often say that, you know, we have a lot of things that we do here. Gym and swimming and Hebrew and Jewish and la, la, la. But really, the product that we sell is friendship, and the product that we sell is community. And no matter what is going on out there, we all need that.
- [30:30]
Yeah. I like that. I like that what you're quote, selling is friendship. I think that's really powerful, actually, for a lot of nonprofits, particularly yours. But certainly nonprofits in general, I think, have a very relational perspective and mission. Okay, so for people who are listening, want to find out a little bit more about you, a little bit more about the jcc. Where would you send them? How can they find out a little bit more about both?
- [30:51]
Well, we have a brand spanking new website.
- [30:54]
Oh, nice. Okay, congrats.
- [30:56]
That took a little bit of work.
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I'm sure it did.
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Incredible colleagues. And so I would recommend going to our website, looking at our programs and hopefully if you're in the neighborhood, being inspired to visit us to join one or more of them, or if there's something there that looks inspiring to you, maybe bringing that to the church or the synagogue or the community center or the mosque where you spend your time and making some of those things happen in your own community.
- [31:27]
Well, again, thanks for all you're doing and for all the people you serve. You serve people from all different walks of life and it's impressive. And I know you're going through a lot of challenges, but you're navigating through them. And thanks for taking time to be on the show to share some of these insights.
- [31:40]
Thank you.
- [31:42]
Dr. Rob Harder
Hey, friends. Well, I wanted you to know that this podcast can be found on itunes, Spotify, Amazon, Google podcasts, and wherever you listen to other podcasts. I also want to encourage you to, like, subscribe and share this podcast with others. This will actually help us get this great content out to more nonprofit leaders just like you. You can also join the nonprofit leadership podcast community, find other resources and interviews of past guests, all on my website, nonprofitleadershippodcast.org well, thanks again for listening and until next time. Time. Keep making your world better. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox. DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business.