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Nonprofit Leadership Podcast
Critical Conversations: Special Four-State Panel Discussion Addressing Today’s Top Trends
01:25:15
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A
This is Dr. Rob Harder with the nonprofit Leadership podcast Making your world better. What does it take to be an effective nonprofit leader today? What are the biggest challenges? What are the biggest obstacles? How should nonprofits fundraise in an economy that is constantly changing? All of these reasons combined led me to start this show. And it's my hope that through this series, people can learn not only what it takes to be an effective nonprofit organization, but to hear from effective leaders who. Who are successfully making a positive impact in their communities. We hope you enjoy the show as together we hear how they are making their world better.
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Welcome to the nonprofit leadership podcast with Rob Harder.
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I'm Lena Larew, based currently in Mexico,
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and I'm a listener just like you
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who cares about the nonprofit world and the people leading it. If you're looking to learn and grow
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C
as a nonprofit leader, you're in the right place.
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A
Thanks for listening. Now here's Rob. Welcome, everybody, who is joining us live. This is really fun. Welcome to this. First time that I've done this as part of my podcast. It's special. It's really a special emphasis on the mountain region. I've got representatives from Idaho, Colorado, Wyoming, and Utah. I live in Park City, Utah, and so that's kind of fun. So Jill actually is somebody who runs the Utah Nonprofits association, which I'll talk about. But I thought I wanted to expand it beyond Utah and really have leaders from across this mountain region to talk about those things that are keeping all of you up at night. So, again, I'm really glad you've tuned in today. This is going to be a fascinating conversation. What I'd like to do is just give a quick overview and then we'll go through and introduce my illustrious guests. But let me kind of set the stage of why we're doing this. Many of you probably listen to my podcast quite a bit. If you follow me, you've heard me talk about lots of these topics we've talked about or we're going to talk about today. And I've had guests from all over the country, actually places all over the world at times, people leading in international organizations or they live in various countries and they're dealing with similar issues. Now, we are going to kind of zero in on the United States context, but there's no doubt about it that we're really living in an interesting time from financial uncertainty, right from the financial and fundraising pressure to staff burnout. That's really at high levels now. AI utilization, the challenge of meeting rising community needs with limited resources. Today's landscape is really challenging. It's really pulling organizations, I believe, in every direction. And so what we'd like to do today is really design this conversation to be practical, an honest space for executive directors, senior leaders, staff members, board members, to really just take a step back for the next hour and a half to focus on what you're carrying and to hear from some leaders that for the most part are they're all impacting multiple nonprofit organizations. They're impacting multiple people because they all have large responsibilities. And to hear their take what they're learning, what they're implementing and how they're moving forward and continuing to lead with boldness. Okay, so let me start with a couple of critical data points here. First on the fundraising front. Let me give you a couple of data points, then I'm going to introduce my illustrious guest for you today. Did you know that in the last five years, total charitable giving in the US has fallen by roughly 10 to 13% after inflation. This is a $65 billion drop since the 2021 peak. So again, think about that, and you may be feeling that as a fundraiser, as a nonprofit leader, that in the last five years you've seen your giving. What's interesting is even though the overall giving by individuals has dropped, there are some pockets of individuals that are giving more money. We tend to hear about the big ones, the McKenzie Scotts and people like that are giving these huge, huge gifts. So that is happening. And so there's sometimes you'll see in the data that overall giving is up a little bit, but individual giving to charities actually is still heading downward. And you may be feeling that. And then when you couple that in the United States context, when it comes to federal grants, those have been cut. So a lot people that depend on federal grant money, they are losing that. And a lot of them have lost 40, 50, maybe 60% of their budget because of these cuts in grants. So there's a lot going on in the fundraising financial landscape. Here's the second thing I want to kind of start with is a really interesting data point. Recently, the last two years, they've done some studies now on staff burnout, specifically in the social impact sector. Here's what a recent survey found is that nonprofit workers across the United States again established staggering 74% reported they're looking for another job. So that means 3/4 potentially of your current staff are looking for another job. But there's the other piece is that out of those seeking new employment, 65% are unsure they will remain working in the nonprofit sector at all. So there's this high burnout factor that's impacting many of us in the nonprofit sector. And so those issues just kind of frame the conversation a little bit today of what we're going to talk about. Okay, so enough of introduction now. I'd like to just introduce my illustrious panel here with me. As I mentioned before, they're representing four states. I'm from Park City, Utah, and we've got people from Utah, which we'll start with that. Jill Bennett. She serves as the Chief Executive Officer of the Utah NonProfit association, or UNA. She leads efforts to strengthen Utah's nonprofit sector and advance happy, healthy and resilient communities across the state. I love how you framed that, Jill. She really believes that communities are strongest when they can rely on thriving nonprofit organizations that are well equipped to meet essential needs and support individuals and families with care, dignity and compassion. Jill's work is driven by a deep commitment to ensure that the UNA continually enhances its service to Utah's nonprofit organizations and the community they support. Jill, so glad to have you on the show and excited to have you share a little bit. Let me just do my second guest, Kevin Bailey from Idaho. Kevin is the Vice president for IMPACT and Idaho Nonprofit center at the Idaho Community foundation, or icf. Previously, Kevin was the Executive director of the Idaho Nonprofit center where he played a key leadership role in guiding the thoughtful merger of two statewide organizations into the Idaho Community Foundation. It was an effort rooted in deep understanding of what Idaho's nonprofits and communities need to thrive. And before joining the NonProfit center in 2021, Kevin served as the CEO of United Way of Southeastern Idaho and brings a broad experience across the education and social impact sector both domestically and internationally. His work has included directing federal grant programs, focus on college access for first generation students, and leading community initiatives that support financial stability for immigrant families. Kevin, again, thanks for being on the show and can't wait to hear a little bit from you. My third guest then is Jody Shields. She is the Executive Director of the Wyoming Nonprofit Network. Jody serves as the executive Director of the Wyoming Nonprofit Network. It's a statewide association really dedicated to strengthening, supporting and advocating for Wyoming's nonprofit sector. She's led the network for more than a decade, including spearheading the effort to re establish the organization after a period of inactivity. With more than 30 years of experience in the nonprofit sector, she brings really deep experience in this executive leadership role. She also has lots of experience in strategic planning, board governance. She's taught nonprofit management as a lecturer at the University of Wyoming. She holds a master's degree in strategic leadership and is a graduate of Leadership Wyoming, a proud Wyoming native dedicated to advancing the state's nonprofit sector. So again, so glad, Jodi, you're here to share your insights. And then the last guest to be introduced is Lloyd Lewis. Maybe some of you recognize him. He's been on the show. It's been a few years, but he does great work and he shared before on my show about what he's doing at the Arc Thrift Stores. He's still there doing amazing work. So he's based in Colorado and he's the CEO of the Arc Thrift Stores of Colorado. And he really says he's on a crusade to promote a new way to think about inclusion and diversity. Lloyd Lee is one of the state's largest social enterprises, nonprofits, employers of persons with intellectual and developmental disabilities, recyclers and relief organizations. He does a lot of things through the Ark Store and they have a huge impact since joining the organization all the way back in 2005, they funded over 250 million to nonprofit causes and charities. So it's pretty impressive. And I like having you here, Lloyd, because it's a slightly different role than some of the others that I have on this panel, but you'll bring us, I think, a really unique perspective. And just to wrap up with loy, his focus is really on healthcare, housing, voting rights and employment for people with IDD and has really been often looked to as a speaker like the national conference and the medium and executive leadership of organizations and corporations looking to learn about the positive contributions of employees with idd. So it's really fascinating work that you're doing, Lloyd. So all of you, first of all, welcome. So glad you're here. Let's dive into the first questions and as I do this, those who are in the audience and listening, feel free to send your questions through the chat. I've got somebody monitoring that. We'll make sure we will get those questions at the end. I'm going to give initially the first approximate hour to these four and I've got some questions I've already prepared them to answer. But then we want to give some time for Q and A from you, the listener who are here live. Thank you so much, first of all, for coming. We're welcome. We're so glad you're here to tune into this great conversation. So again, use that chat button feature and we'll make sure we try to answer your questions as much as possible. And then I'll have a follow up email from this conversation, from this episode, and if we don't get through all your questions, we'll try to get answers to you after the fact. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business. Okay, so we're ready for the first question. So here's the first question we want the panelists to address. And let me just say it this way, and then I'll start with Jill, you give the first opportunity to answer this question. Here's the question. When you look at the ever changing world we're living in, what feels most uncertain or fragile about your organization's financial sustainability? And what is your plan to mitigate these challenges? So each one of you can answer. But we'll just start with you, Jill, could you give us your take on that?
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D
Happy to rob. Thank you. I don't think there's any one single thing. There's so many things happening on a larger scale in our country in terms of nonprofits and how they're viewed in the country. For us, the issues rest at that macro level. The first is the things that you'd already mentioned about the changes in economic security for people. When people lose their financial security, one of the first things that they are forced to let go of is their charitable giving. They need to take care of their families. They need to pay their electric bill, they need to fill their cars with gas before they can have the opportunity to share what's remaining with other with organizations that are working on behalf of the community. Tighten those belts. Nonprofits are the first to feel that. And from our membership is nonprofits. We have over 600 nonprofit members across the state, and they're feeling that as well. And sometimes that tightening of the belt happens even before the financial impact actually hits. So they're anticipating these changes and they're working on behalf of that to support their families and protect their families. So for us, when, when so much of our revenue relies on nonprofits, we have to do some things that are really important. We have to make sure that our work is deeply valued by nonprofits so that we're something that we're an organization can support them. So for our work last year and Maybe starting in 2024, one of the things that we've pivoted to is helping organizations achieve financial security. We've had more fundraising classes. We've brought people together to talk about it. We encouraged collaboration. So when the nonprofit sector is healthy, Una is healthy. So that's one thing. And then the other thing is that nonprofits are experiencing a national program designed to create distrust in our sector and the work we do. So to work around that, we're telling the stories of nonprofits every way that we can so that people don't think of us as a tax status, which is nonprofit, but instead think of us and the impact that we have on the community. So it's, that's where we're focusing our work. And we think that it'll help nonprofits. And what helps nonprofits helps communities. And that in turn, of course, helps Utah Nonprofits Association.
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Yeah.
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Well, again, living in Utah, I know you have such a concern and passion to commit and support all the nonprofit communities, which then supports the state as a whole. So thank you for that. Okay, we'll go to Kevin. Kevin, could you give your thoughts and what you're experiencing there in Idaho?
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B
Yeah. Similar to what Jill mentioned, I think, you know, what I think about a lot is what I call the giving gap. And we recently at the Idaho Community foundation did a statewide survey because we have so many new people moving into our state estimates around a quarter of the population has arrived in the last 10 years. And so we really wanted to kind of understand what are the motivations and the reasons why folks that have been here in Idaho a long time and maybe are multi generation residents versus folks who have arrived in the last five years. We worked with Boise State University on that and we'll be publishing kind of a launch of that, that report on May 26 next month. But what we found is kind of interesting. There's a values versus an action gap and it does speak to the national data. When you look at what's always been if you look at the Giving USA data, the largest chunk of that pie is individual giving. But we've seen the share of individuals giving, as you mentioned at the open really falling year over year. And that's a huge concern when it comes to nonprofits diversifying their revenue sources and building those grassroots movements that help them remain in business. And so our survey data, surveying Idahoans, both long time and new Idahoans, we found the same exact response rate. In terms of philanthropy being important to them, about 90% said philanthropy and giving was important to them. It was a personal value. I mean, that's Great news. If 90% of our population is on board with that value, we're in really, really good shape as a sector. But what caused some red flags to pop up is that only 59% in both groups said they had given money to a nonprofit in the last 12 months. And so we have a 30% point gap in what people say they value versus what they actually do. And I think, you know, the health of our sector and our own organizations is. And where I lose sleep at night is how are we going to make sure we cover our full operating budget next year? How are we going to attract new people to our organizations, those individuals, how do we make sure that they, that we help them? And our mission at the Idaho Community foundation, and really our North Star, is on growing that culture of philanthropy and helping nonprofits be really excellent at finding those new funding sources and training them up. And obviously the grant making side of what we do and serving philanthropists and so forth. But we really want to help people step into that delta between what they say they value and what they actually do. And how do we help people be better givers? And later I can talk more about initiatives like Idaho Gives, our statewide giving campaign that we run. And how do we open that aperture to let more people even smaller valued, smaller dollar donors that come in at $10. How do we help them participate in building a culture of philanthropy? So that's what we're really focused on.
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A
That's great. Well, that is so interesting. I like the idea of minding that gap between what people's aspirations are, what they value, and what they actually give to, and then helping people give more effectively. I think that's a great distinction. One other thing I think is fascinating along those same lines, I just recently have had another guest on my podcast talk about there is. We're in the midst in the United States of this massive transfer of generational wealth, right? And as people are getting older and some people are passing away, they're handing their wealth to the next generation. The next generation. And so there is more wealth being transferred than any time in US History, as I understand it. I don't know if that. I've not looked that up, but that's what I've been told. So I'm assuming that is a true fact. But here's the reality, going back to your point, Kevin, is I know a lot of nonprofit leaders are like, well, where is that money? Who are those people? Because I don't know where they are. They're not in my constituent realm right now, but that's supposedly happening. And so being ready, as you said, Kevin, to match people that maybe have more money than ever to give to good causes, to match that with their values and make sure it makes sense, sense of where you can give, how you can give, to really make a difference with that newfound wealth, potentially so, anyway, we'll talk about that maybe a little bit more. Jody, let's go into you and what you're seeing in your state. And how would you answer that question to kick things off?
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C
Thank you, Rob. I'm glad to be here today. In many ways, our financial sustainability really reflects what's happening across the sector. We're all looking at our mix of funding and for many organizations, and we are one of those where you tend to be weighted in one area, whether that's government funding, grant funding, individual donations. And while for the network, individual giving doesn't make up, only makes up a small portion of our revenue mix, and we don't receive government funding, we are fairly reliant on grant funding. We're about 40% of our revenue comes from that. And so, as we've seen, a lot of grant funding requests have gone up in light of government funding cutbacks. The donor situation, which you've all been talking about, and some cases I'm hearing from nonprofits and donor, you know, donor fatigue is a real thing, and trying to bring in new individual donations. On the positive side, our investment from foundations and that grant funding has really allowed us to expand our programming and create greater value for our membership. So that has really driven real growth in our membership and program revenue and in fact, have seen growth there instead of declining. But in Wyoming, a rural state, like many other states in our region, there's only so many organization and individuals to engage, so there's really a ceiling to that. So we realistically know that grant funding will always be a contributing portion of our revenue or needs to be. And so, like many organizations, we constantly evaluate that and see what are the other opportunities, what things are we not thinking about? And then we also encourage that in our programming and in our education to nonprofits as well. Last year, we went through a full strategic business planning process to really play a really clear picture of that financial model and align our operations and projections with some potential risks to mitigate some of that risk. And we've also worked to build up some reserves so that we can navigate and pivot as needed. And we certainly encourage organizations we work with to do the same if they are able to.
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A
Okay, no, great to hear that insight, and I want to hear a little more about that strategic plan, but love that you are moving forward with that. Okay, last but not least, Lloyd, talk about, you know, you have this unique perspective from a social enterprise point of view, but you end up supporting all these nonprofits. So you still have this pulse on the nonprofit sector. So Talk about what you're seeing there. Colorado.
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E
I'm going to answer your question a couple of ways. One is in terms of my own organization and the organizations I support and then more generally non profits in Colorado. So I'm fortunate to lead a social enterprise. We have 40 thrift stores and our earnings through our thrift store sales support 14 ARC advocacy chapters that help people with intellectual disabilities. They are advocates for those wonderful people and their families. And fortunately our thrift stores have been very successful and we're expanding and growing. We've just given the chapters we support a 9% increase going into next year during my tenure, a quarter of a billion dollars for IDD advocacy and employment versus 25 million the 20 years before me. I've been leading this organization for 20 years. So we are.
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That's impressive.
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E
We are expanding into other states and we are adding additional stores and fortunately our sales and earnings are doing remarkably well. Now the organizations we support, they are being flooded with requests for service in our state because of HR1 in our own state budget. There is going to be a half a billion dollar cut in Medicaid to support people with idd. And that is just a tremendous decrease in needed funding and supports for the people that the chapters I support serve. And they are just being flooded with additional demands and requests. And it's a very difficult period for those organizations. They don't have to do much fundraising, but the demand for their services and the complexity and difficulty of being able to help people has dramatically increased. So they're under extreme pressure on the general nonprofit community. I chair a couple of boards, I'm treasurer on a couple of others in Colorado. But similar to other organizations across the country, I mean there's been this, this reset in funding with the COVID era dollars, federal dollars, they're now gone. Need is growing faster everywhere than the systems that we built can meet those needs. Population growth and housing costs mean more people need services across the country. And as you pointed out, one of the bigger issues that we face, people and staffing, underpayment versus the private sector, burnout, turnover. Housing is now a non profit issue. No matter what your mission is. A lot of staff can't afford to live where they near where they work. And the old donation only model is somewhat changing. There is growth in hybrid models like thrift, like workforce enterprises, like fee for service. So we're in a changing landscape with the new administration, decreases in federal funding with a challenging economy. And nonprofits across the country, including those I support, are under increasing pressure just to keep up their ability to serve the people that are their mission.
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A
Well said. And again, this is so fascinating of what you're doing, of how you're in a sense of making money then in order to turn around and support missions that are very much in that nonprofit sector. And I know some of my background, I've been involved with leading organization that had thrift stores. Stores. It's so fascinating how that is a great social enterprise, right to do both, have mission driven work and have a double bottom line and or even a troll bottom line when you go to a thrift store. So well done. So glad to see some success. Well, let's you touched on that, Lloyd, and I want to go back into that just to remind our listeners again. So we're talking about 75% of current nonprofit employees are thinking about moving on from their job currently and about 65% of those are thinking about leaving the nonprofit sector altogether. So there's an issue here. There's a problem and you mentioned it, Lloyd. You know, it could be a bit of payment issues. Oftentimes it's not just that. Sometimes it's just overwork. Some of the when we've dived into the details of that, sometimes it's because nonprofits don't have a clear definition of what someone's job is, which means gives them good boundaries and therefore they don't know what success looks like. So they're always scrambling and they're never quite done with their work because they don't have a good definition of what their job is. And if the nonprofit keeps growing, there's just more and more work responsibility and no end to the work. And that can burn people out very quickly. So let's dive into that a little bit. And I'm going to start with you, Kevin, first. What are you doing differently at your organization? What are the nonprofits that you work with doing differently to retain and support staff during this season? And where do you feel stuck, perhaps when it comes to this burnout and capacity issue that you're bumping into there
- [24:03]
B
in Idaho, for sure we're feeling it just like the rest of our partners. We think about our nonprofit center. We have 850 plus members across the state and in my conversations with them, as well as our community foundation grantees with executive directors, you know, it's the same conversation about many of us are wearing multiple hats. You mentioned that role definition. We're scrambling to cover a lot of demand on our services with very few people to do that work. One of the things I'm really proud that we did and we've continued to do is work with our neighbor states, some of which are on the the podcast here today, to do a joint regional compensation and benefit report for the sector. And I think this year's report, which was just released, was the largest sample size that we've had across I think seven states this year. And you know, that's where any good employee retention program starts. It's how do we make sure that we have competitive wages and really those core benefits as well. I was really glad to see that more and more nonprofits are adding, you know, core benefit options like health insurance and retirement plans. But of course, you know, nonprofits wages are always going to be a bit behind the for profit sector. And so, you know, there's different creative ways that nonprofits are having to kind of sweeten the deal for their employees. And this is something that we're not necessarily implementing at our own organization yet. We're having these conversations about what should our full scope of benefits and employee engagement or intention look like because we're in the middle of a lot of change post merger, but just from seeing the field and what's out there, things like very hybrid workplaces, reduced hours in the work week, things that help make nonprofits a great place to work. But it always to me comes down to do people fit in that organization with the values, the mission? Do they feel that sense of purpose? Do they have the autonomy in their job to perform? Do they have the right skills to perform? These are the core things that keep people in their jobs. And people start to drift and wonder when they don't have some of those core elements of alignment value centered on the values. Of course, pay and benefits are always important. So it's a complicated mix. I don't know if there's a silver bullet answer to these questions. It is very interesting to kind of be at that 30,000 foot level and see what is happening out in that area. And like we're an organization that barely has any HR support and most nonprofits don't have any full time or part time hr. And so this is a tricky question to try to solve for leaders.
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A
That's well done. Yeah, thank you that you're aware of that. Thanks for sharing that. Jill, how about you? What would you say to chime in the same conversation about burnout, staff retention, all those good things.
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D
So I see burnout as an organizational problem, not an individual problem. And it touches on the things that Kevin's already mentioned. It's are the people working at your organization, do they share your values? So if you're someone who doesn't care about the nonprofit sector and, and doesn't care about communities, then organizations serving the community or serving other nonprofits, it's probably not where you're gonna find a sense of fulfillment and happiness, regardless of what else is going on. So we try to make sure that the people on our team understand the mission and care about it even before they become part of the team. So that's one of the things we do. We've added a number of programs to our organization in the last several years. We have a 32 hour compressed work week, which I'm going to get to
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A
in a little bit.
- [27:34]
D
We offer flex time. So if you want to work different hours or you want to work on a Friday instead of a Tuesday, let us know and we will work with you so that you can create some sort of harmony between your work and your home life. Because we think that's critical. We have policies that we follow so that everyone feels like they're being treated fairly and equitably. We try to foster relationships within the team. One of the things that keeps people at work is do they have a best friend? Do they have somebody that they can call and say, hey, I did this. Can you give me some advice? Or I did this. Can we celebrate it together? So to create deeper relationships across the team is something that we work on. And all this is like perfect scenario, right? Because we don't get to do this all the time. And we try to recognize and reward people in the way that matters to them also. Not 100%, but that's the goal. And then the biggest challenge is, as Kevin mentioned, it's the workload. There are so many things that nonprofits need and that UNA wants to be able to help people, help organizations acquire so that they can do even more. And so that's the challenge. And that's either my learning to say no to certain things, or my team reminding me that it's time to say no and to forge a plan together that really supports towards una. I believe that the team comes first because if the team isn't there, nothing happens. With una, we don't go anywhere. So we try to take really good care of our people in ways that matter to them. Again, all that's ideal. If my team were sitting next to me, they go, yeah, but we didn't do this, this, this and this.
- [29:16]
A
That's okay. But we tried wrong process, right? To keep getting better. So, okay, let's double click real quickly on that 32 hour work week. Any more you want to share about that? Because that is kind of unique. Has that been able to be spread not just to UNA but to other nonprofits?
- [29:30]
D
You know, I think other nonprofits have looked at it where we were really fortunate. The board looked at it and said, okay. And in our first pilot year, when we moved from 40 hour traditional work to 32, we had greater productivity, we had more programs, we grew membership, we did everything we were supposed to do. So we exceeded our results. We got 100% of the pay and we did the work in 80% of the time time. So some people still come in on Fridays because they like that quiet time. And not Everybody just works 32 hours, but it's the culture that that's the expectation and then go home and enjoy your Life. We're also 100% remote. We leased a small office so we have a place to go in store of our stuff and we'll, we'll meet there. You know, the team will come together at least once a month, if not more, to be together and foster those relationships.
- [30:19]
A
That's fascinating. Okay, well, good. Well, thanks for sharing about that. All right, Jody, we'll jump to you and Wyoming. What are you doing when it comes to staff burnouts and ret. Some of these issues we're talking about?
- [30:29]
C
Well, just building off Jill and Kevin. Ditto on everything they said. All important things to bring up. We are also a fully remote team. There's five of us right across the state. So there's a lot of benefits to being remote. There are, but there are some challenges. And so we have to be really intentional about that connection. We recently we all met in person. We don't do that as often as I'd like, but it's a big state. We're spread out several hours, but recently met in person and had a very intentional discussion about our work styles, our communication preferences, our strengths to really bond together. Sometimes it's hard over zoom, but having dinner together, having some time in face to face is really important. Helps you understand our work and how to better collaborate with each other. All of us, a small team, you wear multiple hats, you're working together all the time. Flexibility is a big part of our culture. Generous PTO policy and really try to encourage work life balance. We have busy seasons. Sometimes it feels like every season is busy, but we definitely have busier seasons. So really trying to be intentional about protecting those slower times so people can take time to rest, recharge, think some quiet times. So really trying to be Intentional about that. Burnout's a real risk in our sector. It's a real thing, and it directly relates to capacity. The great thing about growing, you have greater visibility. We have a super talented team, and so we're more present. And with that comes more opportunity and more opportunities to do new things, new partnerships. Every week we're given these and presented with these. But it also can create those tensions. And I think like many nonprofits, there's constant pressure to take on new things, meet new needs, grow, expand, definitely. But it does create those pressures and sometimes put your current priorities at risk. So balancing with growth and really staying protective of team capacity, like Jill, I have to remind myself of that every day. But it's really important to do. To maintain. Yeah. To mitigate that risk of burnout. So while we, you know, we evaluate for mission alliance consistently ask ourselves, are we. Do we actually have capacity to do this? Are we staying focused on our goals as opportunities come up? Is, are we the right people? Is it the right time? Do we park that idea for now? So sometimes that means holding steady rather than growing. So like I said, there's a lot of pressure on our sector to add programs or services. But being deliberate about what you say yes to, what you say no to, or what we say, not us, but I think I may be able to connect you to somebody that might be a good fit is really important.
- [33:28]
A
I love that intentionality, and that, I think, is one of the key pieces. Whether you're leading a lot of nonprofits or leading your own organization, intentionality is absolutely critical. And making sure that is part of what you're thinking about, about dreaming about, discussing all the time is just being intentional about that. So, Lloyd, you brought this up already. Anything else you want to chime in when it comes to what you're seeing? Again, because you have so many people I know that you employ at these various thrift stores across the state and now in other states. What else would you chime in on? When it comes to staff burnout and to staff retention?
- [34:00]
E
I think for any nonprofit, social enterprise or traditional nonprofit, the most important factor in preventing burnout and turnover is commitment to mission. So, I mean, when you join a nonprofit, you're not working for a tech in Silicon Valley, you're not working for an investment firm on Wall Street. You're working to make a difference. And so if you really recruit and attract people whose primary interest in joining a non profit is to help the mission, I think that's the key to assuring, you know, a stable workforce in My own company, I have over 2,000 employees. They're processing hundreds of millions of items a year every year. It's a little more complex than I thought it would be when I first joined. It's a very challenging thing that we do here, but we employ 600 individuals with IDD and I think they inspire their fellow employees and they know they're coming into work for more than just a paycheck. They're working to help and support these wonderful employees with idd. And it's a little impossible to complain about work if you work next to someone with down syndrome and they would tell you that hanging men's clothing is the greatest job in the history of the world. Yeah, I would do it in any company, any nonprofit. Commitment to mission. We have probably 100 managers throughout the company and they all do what they do to help our mission. And I was inspired by something that I saw saw in an interview of Mark Kelly, the former astronaut, when he was talking about the Artemis mission and was asked about the difficulty and complexity of those missions. He says, when we do hard things, we get a lot out of it. So when you do hard things in a non profit, there's a lot of outcome that helps a lot of people that people can be proud of. And we focus on that every, every day, every meeting that we do, we talk about our mission. And the nonprofits where I chair the boards, same thing, thing, we have people who are extremely committed to the mission and making a difference. And regardless of anything else, paid benefits, you name it. That is the most important factor probably in any company, but certainly in the nonprofit.
- [36:16]
A
We'll be right back. Are you looking for an easy and effective way to boost your nonprofit's donations? Well, look no further than Donorbox, the online fundraising platform that streamlines your fundraising efforts, maximizes donations and simplifies giving for your supporters. With Donorbox, you can create beautiful donation forms, accept digital wallet payments, track donations and send auto receipts. And the best part, there are no setup or monthly fees and no long term contracts required. So what are you waiting for? Visit donorbox.org today to get started. That is www.donorbox.org. That's amazing how many employees you have. And I like how your, your perspective can change really quickly. Can it? Depends on who you're talking to and what they're doing and what their perspective is on a job. So, okay, let's shift gears a little bit to AI, which is always a conversation that it seems like in almost every conversation I've had with, whether it be business leaders or nonprofit leaders, and specifically technology in general. Not just AI, but just improvements in technology. So what is one technology or infrastructure investment that has made the biggest difference in your organ and what's the upgrade you need but haven't been able to do yet? It could be a cost thing or just not quite ready to implement it yet. So let's talk about AI or any other technology tool that you're finding to be super helpful. Lord, let's just go right back to you. What would you say to that one? What are you trying to implement when it comes to technology and AI?
- [37:47]
E
Well, in my own organization we are using AI. Okay. What I've told my employees is if it helps you and helps you do better work, work, feel free to use it. We're not going to use it to downsize or eliminate employees. But if it helps you in the course of your job. In my own case, I'm a pretty good writer. But if I, I can put in a few prompts to chat GBT and have a beautiful letter in about two seconds versus spending a half an hour on it. So I think AI is going to be very helpful to society. And I, I get troubled when other companies talk about using it that to reduce workforce. That should not be the purpose of it. It should be to help your existing workforce do more in a better fashion.
- [38:33]
A
Okay, I like that. It's a good summary of that. Jody, how about you in Wyoming? What are you doing to add either AI or other technology improvements to your
- [38:41]
C
nonprofit association in terms of AI? We have embraced it to the, you know, to the degree that kind of, that entry level. We will pay, you know, for a paid version of ChatGPT. If it helps individuals like Lloyd said, if it helps you do your job. If it's, rather than spending 20 minutes on or 30 minutes on a letter, could you give it a few prompts or whatever it might be. Maybe it's doing a survey too. Could be really helpful in designing a survey. And so we, we have embraced that and willing to invest. We've also done some training in AI for our nonprofit partners to think about, you know, how do you utilize the tool, what's the best way of prompting and then what are important policies to have in place, you know, as a full remote organization and even in person, having reliable up to date technology, it's very important. Everything we do is about connectivity and making sure, you know, that computer works and your Internet stable, which some days the Internet could be a little bit fuzzy. Really investing in that, you know, having up to date technology is huge for us. There's so much to today software as a service platforms that anything you might need, from making name tags to project management, you could find relatively inexpensive compared in the old days. We used to have to buy software and load it on your computer. Thousands of dollars of investment. We utilize platform management and communication platform that helps helps us in remote remote work tools for external communication, surveys, engagement. So we do budget for those things that if it helps you do your job. Let's. Let's see. Figure out a way to offer that Biggest upgrade for that is not so much financial. Would be our membership and contact management system. You know, finding that right tool for. We tend to take things and try to, you know, fit us a round peg in a square hole. We've been doing that for a lot of years. But honestly, it's not a financial side of things. It's more about the time and resources it takes to transition to a new platform like that and some of that growth. So we haven't really invested in that yet. Hasn't been a big enough issue for us to do that.
- [41:05]
A
And that's a great point, being a remote, fully remote organization that you really do rely on technology maybe more than other nonprofits that are in person all the time. So thank you for that. All right, Jill, chime in on this one. What are you seeing when it comes to AI or technology that you're implementing or things you haven't quite implemented because just budget or time.
- [41:23]
D
So time. Right. That. That seems to be the answer for a lot of things. It's time. We've been using large language models and emails and reporting and things like that and having IT do rudimentary analyses for us. You know, things that might have taken 15 minutes on Excel before are now taking 3 seconds and we're taking advantage of that. One of the things that we're looking at and we're trying to be really intentional about that is automating some of our processes. Unfortunately, some of the systems we already use really don't allow for that. So we're trying to figure out where do we want to be strategically so that we can spend our time on the relationships and where things really matter.
- [42:04]
A
Yeah. And I think, I love that focus on relationships. Oftentimes I think the people that are really maximizing AI I are finding what happens is as you mentioned, what used to take a long time now takes much shorter time. Well, what do you do with that extra time? You have more time with people, more time with relationships, more time with donors. You have more of that Person to person time, which I think in many ways the nonprofit social impact sector specializes in. And so I think that's a really important tool that AI can provide for you is by taking those repetitive tasks off so you have more time in your day than for those face to face relationships or even, you know, phone to phone or zoom to zoom relationships. All right, good. Kevin, talk about that. What are you seeing in Idaho and what are you doing with them when it comes to technology and AI?
- [42:47]
B
Yeah, we've really embraced it in one, you know, call out. And we do have some IT staff which we're lucky to be large enough to have that which has helped us implement this. But we have, you know, a closed ecosystem. So one of the Microsoft products, Copilot, for example, which allows our data to be stored within its safe environment and it's not out there being used and trained for other models. And because we deal with a lot of sensitive information, that has to be priority number one. So I'll mention that I spend a lot of time thinking about this. I, I love a podcast by Cal Newport and he's a great writer on this topic, but he's got a podcast called Deep Work. He talks a lot about AI and one of the cautionary things he puts out there is that if AI becomes, you know, we're all wearing multiple hats, but if we're using AI to just add workload because we can do a few things faster and then we jump into other things and kind of over max ourselves out, it does contribute to that burnout too. So I think there's a balance there. Being thoughtful as leaders and how do we use this tool to automate certain processes to create more margin in our employees times? I'll just give one use case from this past year. So like the other state associations on this call, one of our jobs is to monitor legislation, especially at the state level. So I'm registered as a lobbyist on behalf of our 800 plus members. And one of the real challenges in that work is that we're, you know, reading the summaries of every bill that's introduced and there's over 700 bills that are printed each year.
- [44:12]
A
Wow.
- [44:13]
B
I'm not reading all of those bills word for word, but I'm at least reading the summary to see if there's nonprofit impact. If there is, I'll jump into that bill. And sometimes these bills are slight tweaks from prior years that maybe the bill didn't pass or there was an issue. And so I can drop that into an its own Own, you know, agent, as they call it in copilot, like train that agent to read legislation. And AI is, you know, very good in the legal field. It's been used, starting to be used heavily by law firms and so forth. And just ask it, what are the major differences between last year's version of this bill, this year's version of the bill? And of course, like I have a little bit of skepticism, I want to make sure it's accurate. So I'm in these first years really doing the due diligence to make sure. But, but finding that it does that job really, really well. Well, and if I needed to say, hey, why is this problematic for a certain type of nonprofit? It really does spit out useful talking points that can then turn into our marketing communications work that goes out in our newsletters and so forth. So it has been a really useful research tool that has created that margin in that piece of work for me. And I think about it in the ways that doctors offices are starting to use it in the nonprofit sector. Maybe mental health health counselors, you know, can they use it to take patient, to do patient notes so that they have more time with the high value work around, face to face interaction, things of that nature. But, but the cautionary thing then is, you know, how do we not just add more to our workload because we have this hopefully amazing tool that's such
- [45:39]
A
a good, balanced approach, I think. I mean, number one, while I can't imagine going through all those bills that you mentioned if you didn't have some kind of summary tool. So I think that's fantastic. It's a great example. But I like what you're saying. Yeah, don't overwhelm yourself because you feel like, oh, I've got to be up on the latest AI technology tool. And then, yeah, now you're even more stressed. That doesn't make sense. So appreciate all of you chiming in on that. Okay, so now we're going to get to a time where we've got a couple of questions from our live audience. Let's do the first question. Thank you, Barbara, for giving me this question. Let's go to board leadership. So the question is this. What are the expectations of board engagement and oversight? What is the right size board? Anybody want to just, just raise your hand if you want to jump right into that? Okay, Lloyd, you start and then we'll go right around the room.
- [46:22]
E
I chair a couple of boards and chaired a number of boards in my 20 years in this kind of field. But I have this deep belief that the primary responsibility of a board is to have the right director, and once they have the right director, to support that director. If you don't have the right director, the primary responsibility is to get the right director. So in terms of the boards I chair, I feel my primary obligation is to support the director and to help them achieve the goals that they set. Of course, the board would review those goals and, you know, opine on those goals and then come to an understanding. But when you have a really good director, the last thing you want to do is to get in the middle of their work and try to run the operations. So I've seen that in some boards, and that's always very problematic. So. So, you know, I'm fortunate the two boards I'm currently sharing to have outstanding directors who are just doing amazing work in the middle of this whole funding crisis are doing a good job growing their organizations and getting increased funding and doing even more work. And my thought on the right size of a board is, unless it's a fundraising board, where that's the clear expectation, I believe the small. Smaller the board, the biggest.
- [47:39]
C
Better.
- [47:40]
E
No, no more than 10 or 11.
- [47:43]
A
Okay, okay.
- [47:44]
E
Maybe even smaller points. But I think it's much easier to manage an organization and to lead an organization, to chair organization if you don't have 30 or 40 or 50 board members. That's. That's my. That's my opinion.
- [47:58]
A
That's interest. I'll chime in on this, and I'll have some other people chime in, but you really have a good point, Lloyd. When it comes to size of boards, a lot of discussions about that as well. And I think, one, on the one hand, you have a pressure of like, we want to get as many people who can help fundraise or network for the organization or bring more money in. So you want to have this large board. But you're right, practically speaking, when it comes to organizing, leadership, decision making, the bigger the board, the more difficult. Right. So, number one, just to get them all in the same room or even a zoom call that works for their schedules. One of the things I would recommend, too, to add to that is if you want a large board, if you will, to have just contacts and more fundraising opportunities, more networking in the community or in the state you serve in, develop an advisory board. And so therefore, you have a governing board that stays small, like Lloyd's saying, 8 to 10, maybe 12 at most. And then you can make your advisory board as big as you want. It's not a governing board, but it's a great opportunity to use that board for networking connections, help support financial, you know, fundraising connections, that kind of thing. So that's what I found often is to separate your boards out, a governing board, and then have an advisory board. That's where you can really kind of hit both goals. I think you want. When it comes to a board. All right, who else wants to chime in on that when it comes to board leadership?
- [49:10]
B
I can chime in. I think the answer to me is, I guess it depends and the number should be appropriate to the number of folks that you can reasonably keep engaged. And I think they're like 80, 20 rule a lot on this. If I can make sure 80% of my board has. Is pretty engaged. They're showing up to meetings, they're prepared, they're active, active in the community. They're helpful. That's great because you're always going to have, you know, a couple folks who are just in a different, you know, chapter of their life. Maybe they're. They're more busy, they're raising kids, whatever. But yeah, that 8020 rule is. Is certainly helpful. I love the idea of an advisory board. You know, I've been a part of organizations now that are statewide, and so there's this need because we have large geographies to have a bit of a larger board. So that does come with some inherent challenges. Challenges around geography and travel and just engagement and, you know, led a local united way. And that had its own challenges because you had all these workplace campaigns. And so you're trying to honor that relationship and probably have more board members than an organization should because of that reason, more so for fundraising. So that's always a challenge. I think I hear a lot from executive directors who are frustrated that board members are not as active as they feel that they should be, especially around fundraising. And oftentimes to have a conversation, I guess, with those executive directors and ask them, you know, it's. I don't think it's the board's job to carry out the operational aspects of fundraising. If you have a staff, you know, you've got to create the plans, the work plan to make that move. Your board is there to be an ambassador and to open those doors. And so maybe it's a mismatch sometimes of what we're expecting out of our board members and, you know, making sure that we've right size those roles. A great tool for that can be be an individual board member annual plan like you'd have for an employee. But ask. Ask board members to recommit on an annual basis, what committees do you want to serve on? How do you want to show up in those committees? Also, what's your pledge for the coming year so that we know what you'd like to give? We can count on that. How you'd like to make that commitment in terms of card check, you know, multiple monthly payments, et cetera. That's just such a helpful tool to level set with each individual on the board and sets the tool we pitch in our board training class that we do for our nonprofit members.
- [51:25]
D
I think it comes back, is it the right person? Is this a mission that they care about or finding out why they're serving on the board? Is it important to them? Does it feed their soul and does it make them feel more connected to the community? And once you have that, the rest of it seems to be a lot easier. We do a lot of the things that Kevin does. We have an annual board retreat where we assign committees for the next year and we talk and we get together and I think that's probably important. We've got a large board and typically a large board, we're down to 16 or 17 members right now. But as with Kevin, we want to have as much representation as we can across the state, across different organizations. And you know, there's a former board member on this call as a matter
- [52:09]
A
of fact, I remember being on that board. That was a great board, Good people. Yeah, absolutely. And it was pretty functional. I thought it was a great. Yeah, we got a lot of work done, so. Yeah, great example. Okay, good. Jodi, what else would you add from your perspective?
- [52:23]
C
Oh, really good points. I don't know that it can add a lot other than maybe just the consideration where the organization is in its life cycle. We have a lot of new or all volunteer, existing, all volunteer organizations. That board tends to look different than a board that's law larger organization, fully staffed with development staff. So I think it depends is what everybody wants to hear. But it kind of does depend. The right size is for where you're at in your life cycle, where stage you're at and being focused too on that governance side of things, which is really hard when you're small working board is to also remember your governance responsibilities. So just being aware where you're at and properly using advisory groups and committees that are not made at the direly board members to help you do some of those other operational. Thanks.
- [53:22]
A
Good, well said. Okay. No, thank you, Jody. That's great. Okay. Another question popped up. Community overlap of missions. Do the community organizations collaborate to maximize efficiencies. Anybody want to chime in on that of how we can collaborate better and what happens when there's overlap of missions in a either community or a state?
- [53:40]
B
As you mentioned, we went through a merger with two statewide our nonprofit center and our Idaho Community foundation end of 2024. We had started those conversations about 18 months prior to that. And it was really, I guess, a moment in time where there was fairly new leaders, myself and the CEO of the community foundation who were asking the question, how do we do this better together and how do we serve our sector? And seeing that alignment and then really asking, asking how we could best meet the needs of our stakeholders. And one thing led to the next and that trust is developed and you start to put the pieces together. So that's, I mean, I would put that out into the world that there's an opportunity to think differently about how our organizations show up with other people in our, in our space. You know, that's sector level organizations like community foundations, United Ways, you know, state associations and nonprofits. Profits. I keep hearing more and more from leaders about that question of mergers or very strategic interlock, you know, fiscal sponsorships or partnerships where you're sharing back office services to find efficiencies. So I think the key thing always comes down to trust and alignment and, you know, making sure that there's thoughtfulness to that aspect. But I think one of the key barriers is what you just talked about, and it's that board aspect. Sometimes boards are very resistant to, and rightfully so, to protecting their own mission and about what that could look like and to consider those options. So that's a challenge. But I think, you know, executive directors in the sector are having my necessity to think about these things a little bit differently than maybe boards are, because boards aren't living that every day from how do I make payroll or how do I I make sure that we're still around in 10 years? Like those existential questions. I guess board members should be thinking about those. But it's executive directors who live that and lose sleep over that on a daily basis.
- [55:37]
A
No. Well said, Kevin. Yeah, that's a great example. You've lived through it and you've done that merger successfully. Anybody else want to chime in on the question? Yeah, go ahead, Lloyd.
- [55:46]
E
I would point out I'm the lowest tech boomer in the history of America, so I always feel you're indicated when I actually find the right button. We actually support hundreds of nonprofits in addition to the 14 chapters that I support. We Have a large vehicle donation program. We're a large funder of Colorado Public Radio as an example. Millions of dollars a year. We've also collected 4 million pounds of food during my tenure to support the food insecure, working with a number of food relief organizations. We do three to five relief efforts every week week. Supporting nonprofits and people in need, you know, homeless, addiction, etc. Etc. We're a second chance employer. We employ a lot of felons. We do all of this because it's the right thing to do. But what I've discovered, and I. I didn't understand this when we started to expand in this way, is that it helps our core mission as well, because it strengthens our brand and our presence in the community and awareness of who we are in the community. Community. And when you help all these other non profits, you know, more people donate to us and shop our stores and it helps our core mission. So, yeah, I'm a big believer in ESG and helping as many people as you can. So that's. That's what I've discovered, you know, somewhat accidentally, but that's made a real difference for us.
- [57:03]
A
So. Interesting. Yeah. The more you reach and help others, the more your brand improves and therefore more people shop at your stores in that way. So I think that's an interesting reinforcement in the sense of your mission. I love that. Jody and or Jill, you want to chime in on this when it comes
- [57:18]
C
to this question, I think, you know, in rural areas, there's just not the kind of duplication I think some people think, is there?
- [57:28]
B
Okay.
- [57:29]
C
You know, they're often the only one in the community offering that service. I think probably more so would be. Could there be some synergy regionally, especially when you think about administrative or back office functionality. If there was ways to merge those parts of an organization and create some efficiencies, I think that would be very beneficial, both in terms of the organization's capacity, but also in terms of the funding side of things, you know, being so spread out, so small communities. That's kind of what I roll around in my head is how could we create efficiencies in that way. Way.
- [58:07]
B
That's it.
- [58:07]
A
That's a good point. Yeah. You're in a unique setting in that it's very rural. And so that's very interesting. Compared to like a highly densely populated city or, you know, New York or la, I think of that, where you have a lot of different nonprofits doing the same kind of thing, you're in a very different situation. Jill. Do you want to add anything more?
- [58:24]
D
Yeah, I would just say I think it's important to focus on effectiveness rather than efficiency.
- [58:30]
A
Okay. Okay. Talk about that. How do you distinguish.
- [58:32]
D
An organization can be extremely efficient but not doing the right work.
- [58:37]
A
Okay.
- [58:37]
D
I think, yes, being effective and efficient is great, but there are ways for increasing impact, that you can collaborate to do that. And we see nonprofits do it all the time. But the idea of, like, merging, it's, as Kevin said, it is a long process, 18 months or longer, and it's based on trust. So you have to bring organizations together and get them to trust and then move forward. And we've seen that here in Utt, Utah, with some organizations that made it work. And I think that's the critical point, is what do you need to do to make it work to have an impact in your community and make people's lives easier and better?
- [59:18]
A
I like that distinction, how you break that out and, you know, to build on that same theme of overlap and potentially merging again. I know I had a lot of people talk on my show and national leaders across the country that after Covid specifically, but even now, with the last year or so of these federal funding cuts, a lot of organizations just can't make it. They literally can't make it. And so there's been maybe more of a forcing of certain nonprofit organizations saying, we just can't keep doing what we used to do. We just don't have the funds, we don't have the budget, and therefore they're looking to merge maybe more than ever. And I've had even some say that's a good thing because we're going to be both more efficient and actually effective by working together rather than holding on. So, Kevin, you kind of alluded to this, and this could be to any of you as panelists, but the idea is, when it comes to emerging, though, it is difficult. I think you're right, Jill. It takes a long process. And one of the reasons, Kevin, you mentioned is that people, rightly so, protect their mission if they're on the board or if they're an executive director, like, well, this is my baby. Maybe they started an nonprofit and they're like, no way. No one else really understands this mission like I do. But maybe. Let's talk about that. Is there a time that you found it's really wise to merge and come together, maybe multiple organizations, not just one or two? And.
- [60:39]
D
Or.
- [60:39]
A
And if that is the case, what are the common barriers that prevent organizations that otherwise should come together from merging and being more effective?
- [60:47]
B
Together in our statewide conference, we've had some sessions on, on like collective impact models where you've got coalitions of nonprofits coming together. Let's use the housing subsector as an example where in any community of size, you probably have an emergency homeless shelter, you've got a transitional housing provider, maybe another nonprofit doing eviction prevention. But to the general public, sometimes they're like, oh, aren't you just dealing with homelessness? They don't necessarily understand the nuances of all these organizations working within a system or even what the state, state or city government does in that respect. And we've seen really great progress made when organizations come together with shared MOUs and strategic plans together, and they've also been able to raise more money collectively. The hard part and the barrier there, I think sometimes is establishing really critical ways around group leadership, data sharing, and what. And who will receive those, those funds if they're shared fundraising efforts. So it's a super complex, often very slow to organize model that's not quite merger, but, but it's sector driven and it's. And I think, you know, we're going to have to get to a point in many of our toughest issues where it's not just one nonprofit that can solve that problem, or it's not government that can solve that problem. It's going to be public private partnerships and a coalition of people willing to sit across the table, put their own egos aside and work for the greater good. It might mean in some cases, some organizations are sacrificing some dollars that go to a provider that might be better at that. We've seen even some, some providers shift which services they offer and give up. So like a reverse merger where they had a certain department break off and, and do, let's say, for example, the coordinated entry around homelessness and as its own standalone nonprofit. And so it, it just, it looks different. I think the, the key thing to all this is leaders talking to each other, building relationships, building trust, having conversations about how, how could this look different? That's the key question. How could we do this better? How could this look different? And what emerges from that can be really exciting.
- [62:51]
A
Yeah, well said. No, I appreciate you sharing that. Who else wants to chime in on that question? Should we emerge more and what are the barriers if we not.
- [62:59]
B
One other thing I'll add is, and I probably, Jill and Jody can attest to this, is we as the state association get a lot of calls on our nonprofit helpline or emails nowadays.
- [63:09]
C
Yeah.
- [63:09]
B
And it's how Do I start a nonprofit? And that's like, typically, that's the last question we want to hear. I don't know if. But sometimes it's people with really great intentions and even sometimes resources who think that, you know, we like, duplicate. They're just not aware of what else is happening out there, and they might be better served if they did sort of set that ego aside and say, how can I help support. Support that. That organization that already exists or that is doing that work, or get involved in a way that you can help steer, you know, as a board member, you know, some of the. The services that might be more innovative for that type of organization, because it is a lot of work and it. And it's tough on the ecosystem to constantly just be adding new nonprofits kind of without really thoughtful context behind it. So it's not to say that's never a good option, but. But we do kind of always chuckle when someone says, how do I start a nonprofit? It's like, let's hit the brakes and kind of system here.
- [64:11]
A
I'm glad you brought that up. And maybe, Jill, Jody, you could speak to that. When someone does give you that call or send that email. I want to start a nonprofit. What do you typically do? What's your typical process that may be interesting for my listeners to hear what you do and how you handle that. Maybe, Jody, you could start from.
- [64:26]
C
Yes, like Kevin said, we get a lot of those calls, a lot of those inquiries especially. It seems like during the pandemic and following the pandemic, a lot of people, you know, wanted to do good, right? They wanted to do something positive. They have a passion. What we do is we have a page on our website. We'll certainly have a conversation with them. We have a page on our website that talks about what is a nonprofit, what are the different types of, you know, definitions for IRS in terms of the nonprofit staff status, and then have a workbook that really says, what is your reasoning behind this? What are some green lights, yellow lights and red lights? And yeah, in the workbook? And who do you need to talk to? And you need to talk to. Like Kevin said, there's an ecosystem. Who out there is doing work like you want to do or adjacent to and have those conversations? In some cases, yes, it's duplicated. In other cases, I've seen a lot of really niche which areas they want to get into. They're super narrow that really would be probably better served to be a program under an existing organization. So we have a workbook form to work through that on all those phases to think through that process, talk to people. And then once they do that, we're happy to jump on a call with them and evaluate that and talk that through and provide information if they need contacts in that community and people to talk to.
- [65:47]
E
Super helpful.
- [65:47]
A
I like hearing about your process on that.
- [65:50]
D
I'd agree with everything that Kevin and Jodi said. There are 12,500 nonprofits in Utah, and most of them have really small budgets. But Jodi touched on something that I think is really important to celebrate and that is the care and passion for somebody to do the work to start a nonprofit. But there's other ways that they can impact the community, as Jodi said, they can. They can become a project of another organization. They could volunteer. They can see if there's an organization in another state that they could open a chapter of. There's lots of ways for them to serve that mission in a way that doesn't put a strain on the ecosystem. What I hear from funders over and over again is they don't like to fund new nonprofits. So they have organizations that they've been supporting for 10 or 20 years, and they know the EDs, they know the work, they know what the impact of these organizations is. And it's. It's a deep relationship and it would take an awful lot for somebody to unseat that and gain some or all of that funding. So it's interesting for people, but it's a. It's certainly appreciate and understand the passion.
- [67:01]
A
Well, it's just interesting. You mentioned over 12,000 nonprofits in Utah, the majority being very small. And that is. That's a lot.
- [67:08]
B
Right.
- [67:09]
A
Do you think about the population of the state, that's a lot of nonprofits out there. Right. And so they all need funding. And I bumped into that too, that a lot of donors. Now, if the donor is very close to the founders or as a part of that founding process, then they may have some, you know, money sources to get launched. But you're right, a lot of just established donors. That's a big, big ask to say, hey, we've never done anything, but we have this idea there. It's going to be hard sell, so to speak, to get them excited about your brand new nonprofit when there's all these other good causes they've been supporting for 10, 10 years. Lord, you were going to say, share some things with your experience of the same concept.
- [67:44]
E
So I get asked from time to time from people on how they would start a thrift store like one of mine. If I ask a few questions, it usually takes care of the request. I will ask them if they have an extra million too. They can use the front end equipment and labor to get the store ready. And are they sign a five or ten year store lease with multi million dollar commitment commitments and payroll of a few million dollars. And do they have the exact, exact right management team to operate a store like the stores we operate? And then if they're still interested, I have them visit one of my stores and look at our operations. But in the new world of thrift stores, it's not an easy thing to start one. So I don't want people to go into it with a lack of awareness on how difficult it is and how much capital you need. So that usually takes of care care of it.
- [68:37]
A
Well, no, that's very real. I mean that is just a real conversation to say here's what it costs to get this launched. So yeah, well said. Okay, let's go back into another question. And by the way, those who are in live feel free to keep ask sending questions as they come in. I've got one other question that I wanted to pass on. Some people have mentioned that we're in this generosity crisis. In fact, there's a book that's labeled exactly that are titled Generosity Crisis. I've had the authors on my show and they talked about this. And I do think as you look at the trend line as we started today's conversation that there is definitely less people individually giving to nonprofit or charity causes. Is there anything else that you're seeing that you're trying to adjust to when it comes to the nonprofit organizations you're supporting? And then Lloyd, obviously you've got this unique piece where you're making money and then giving it to nonprofits. So that's such a unique model. And maybe we need to consider more of those social enterprises within nonprofits of a way to find another revenue stream to support these great nonprofit causes. But anything else you want to share about that of what you're doing, doing, how you're preparing your people, what they're doing creatively, particularly when it comes to there are people that are individuals that may have a lot more wealth and now have more to give and you're seeing a few people give a lot more money to certain causes. But that still leaves out a lot of nonprofits that don't have connections to those big donors, if you will. Anything else you want to talk about the fundraising landscape? Because I know this is a big one, one that can be super discouraging for nonprofit leaders.
- [70:06]
B
I'll jump in there. And you mentioned at the top of the show this great transfer of wealth. And that's one of our things that we do in the community is sector research. And so we last year published a transfer of wealth study that really looked at the estimate transfer wealth for each county in Idaho, and then made that tool available to talk about legacy and estate gifts for nonprofits and obviously donors in the community and really framed it around this 5% campaign. You know, how do we have conversations, not just us at the nonprofit center and community foundation, but our members, our grantees, you know, community members have conversations around what would it look like to set aside 5% of my estate for causes that I care about? And, you know, for a lot of nonprofits who are really small, this idea of any type of fundraising, that's not just the annual appeal, maybe some major gifts here and there, but it gets into, like, complicated gifts or state gifts. You know, these are things that are super scary for a small team. And so we've really leaned into that. How do we at the community foundation help, you know, our stakeholder nonprofits have those conversations, and we can be a partner to them in that. And so I think, you know, leaning on your community foundation or your organizations in the state to have those conversations in partnership with the nonprofit nonprofits, for example, it's sort of a win win. It's not that we're taking a donor away from a nonprofit. If they want to set up an estate gift, they can set that estate gift up with the community foundation. And when that donor passes on, that gift will come to the community foundation. But it's most likely going to be a designated or endowed fund that will make grants right back to the organization that we helped be that bridge for. And so that's a really unique partnership where the nonprofit doesn't have to do really any of the work other than than making sure that they're continuing to steward that donor, perhaps, or have a relationship with that donor. But any of the financial aspect of the transaction and the receiving of those funds can be kept at an institution that is used to doing that kind of work. And I think that's a huge value add to our sector. But I would also second Jill and Jodi's side around the capacity building that we're all doing in the sector to train the next generation of fundraisers. There are not enough development directors in our sector, and they're not coming out of universities or other workforce training. Those don't really exist in a really robust Way in the Mountain West. And so it's up to groups like the state associations and community foundations to train that next generation. And so we're all engaged in that work as well.
- [72:34]
A
That's interesting. Yeah, that particularly Mountain west, there's not as many development directors as you need. So, yeah, the associations that need to provide that training and that help. So maybe to kind of add to that same question. Well, yeah, let's go ahead. And anybody else want to chime in on this initial question, then I've got another one to kind of tag on to it. Anybody else? Jody? Jill Lloyd, when it comes to this generosity crisis, some people have called it,
- [72:59]
C
I would just throw in that we are in our seventh year of wild gives, which is a 24 hour day of giving that we host. And that is an effort to increase awareness and giving to nonprofits. But you know, one of the key indicators I look at is new donors. New donors connecting with nonprofits is a key indicator of success for us. So that's been an area that we've really focused in on. And then like the Idaho Community Foundation, Wyoming Community foundation has done a wealth transfer. And so we've partnered with them on legacy giving training that we'll be doing this year. And they're 5 to 3 thrive initiative, which is 5% to your community. And so we've tried to figure out ways we can work with them to
- [73:48]
A
promote that, love that. Okay, five to Thrive. That sounds great. Good work. Jill, what else would you add to that?
- [73:54]
D
I would add one thing, that as we talk about these numbers in these statistics, the other side of it is that when you look at giving, it restores people. People, when they give money, they're happier than if they had spent that money on themselves, themselves. So I think it's just this really curious situation where people aren't taking advantage of an opportunity to be a little bit happier right now. And because of the work that Wyoming gives and their WYO gives and some other foundations, UNA is launching Utah Gives this year, which is the first statewide celebration for Utah Gives. And we're looking at the same things Jodi is. And it's an opportunity for people to just celebrate their community and take care of one of each other. And how can you not like that?
- [74:43]
A
No kidding. I agree. Yeah. And certainly they've done studies on that altruism and giving back. You do it makes you feel better. Like it actually impacts your well being when you do that. So. Well said, Jill. Let's add a tactical question. This is from our audience. How are nonprofits proactively partnering with estate planners and wealth advisors to position charitable giving as a core component of holistic financial planning. I know it's kind of a tactical question. Anybody want to speak to that? Maybe you're doing that at your association or. Anybody have knowledge of that answer?
- [75:13]
B
Well, I'll jump in there. Community foundations, that was always part of kind of a core strategy to find your next fund holder, was working with wealth managers and estate plan, estate attorneys, professional advisors, we would call them. One of the things that we're running into in the community foundation world is that since about the mid-90s, these commercial donor advice companies, funds have opened up at Fidelity, Vanguard, Schwab, and a lot of folks and wealth managers, you know, just direct their clients to those vehicles. And so community foundations have lost, you know, a lot of market share around just because of the ease with which donors can stay in that ecosystem. And so I think we've really had to reconsider through initiatives like what Jodi and Jill have mentioned around this building a culture of philanthropy. How do we contribute to that conversation? How do we make sure that when people. People give through or to the community foundation that they are, that we're adding value to that. Whether we're advising them on the types of nonprofits they might be interested in supporting the nonprofits through those training programs, we're adding value to that gift. And I think that's a core part of the messaging. But we're also building a movement statewide. One of our goals in our new strategic plan is to really have 2% of the total state population come through our virtual or real doors. And that's 40,000 Idahoans, and that's a big number. That means through Idaho gives, our statewide giving campaign, which last year had 14,000 donors come through it. So that would be an example of people coming through our door, nonprofit leaders coming through our door, community members who want to set up funds and understand the value that we bring to that part of their journey. So it's an ambitious goal, but we feel like that 2% is going to help us move the needle on building this culture of philanthropy. So it's one that we're really, really laser focused on.
- [77:01]
A
No. Well said. That's really, really helpful. And it is interesting. You mentioned donor advised funds. 20% of giving out to all charity comes from donor advised funds. And so it's a huge increase. It is the fastest growing trend when it comes to how people are giving out to nonprofits is through donor advised funds. What's interesting how your that impacts your Strategy bit at the association level. Anybody else want to answer that question or give some thoughts to, to that question?
- [77:27]
B
Yeah, I would just add, you said 20% of gifts are coming through that. And then if you narrow that down even just to the community foundation lane for those 20% that are giving through donor advised funds, I think the commercial DAFs now open up about 95% of all of those staff opportunities versus less than 5% at community foundations. And so it just shows you how much that landscape has shifted. Shifted. But I think that also huge, you know, one of the downsides of that is the loss of local connection and knowledge around that giving and making that.
- [78:00]
A
Yeah.
- [78:01]
B
And connected. You know, an issue that all of us on the state association side have been engaged with in terms of what they might call charitable warehousing, where dollars sit in commercial DAF accounts without being required to distribute. And you know, local organizations like the Community foundation have policies in getting those dollars, how to door much quicker on a, on a, you know, certain timeline so that those dollars are not just sitting in, you know, our accounts that are moving through the community into those nonprofits. So I think that's one of the challenges too of commercial dapps is just sometimes it's just the tax break aspect for the donor and it lacks that heart or local community connection that Jill mentioned.
- [78:39]
A
Yeah, I'm glad you pointed out, Kevin, because I think, yeah, it's such an easy tool now and it's such an effective tool. And they found that I think if it's like 10, sometimes more x gift giving, in other words, people give whatever they would normally give, say through check or online. It would be a 10x gift if they give it through their donor advice fund. But if there's no local connection, as you mentioned, if there's no sense of that extra incentive to making sure they give a certain percentage to the local community. Yeah. Then there's not that local tie in like a community foundation has. So that's a really good point. Is just another way to look, look at it from your point of view. So I know we're running out of time here a little bit, but what I wanted to give each one of my guests an opportunity to do because you're all doing really interesting work where you are and my. I'm so glad you've joined us for this panel and shared your insights. And my hope is for my listeners who are listening in either live or then they or they're listening to this episode when we post it on the Nonprofit Leadership podcast. Check out their work There'll be links in the show notes. You can go find out each one of their organization's webpages. But there's some really cool events. I know Jody and Jill already kind of started mentioning some of this, but let's dive into that. What are some things, things that are maybe one or two big things you want to close with, of things you're doing or just last thoughts you have. I'll start with you, Jodi, and share what you're doing there in Wyoming and any other last thoughts you have for this audience.
- [79:54]
C
Sure. Our big annual conference coming up May 19 through 21 this year we're in Casper, so we usually have about 300 attendees. All kinds of sessions, everything, lots to choose from. And so we look forward to seeing people there. And then Wyogues, as I mentioned, July 15th this year, all online. That's on wyogives.org and so, yeah, registration is open for Wyoming non profits. And yeah, we're excited to see what we're able to do this year.
- [80:26]
A
Awesome. Good stuff. Well, I can't wait. Again, I encourage my listener to check that out. There'll be a link again in the show notes. Jill, how about Utah? I know there's the big Utah. Gibbs, you mentioned that this is a big movement for you.
- [80:35]
D
It's a, it's a, it's a huge movement for the state and for our communities. And we're just really proud to be able to play a role in it. The giving day is April 30th. Nonprofits have until April 16th, that's the day after tomorrow to register. And the, the real beauty of Utah Gives or any Giving Day is that it's an opportunity for anyone to contribute and be part of a solution. You can give as a donor, you can be a nonprofit and, and do your work that way, or you could even sponsor the event in some way, shape or form. So we're really excited about it, excited about it and looking forward to the impact we'll have on our communities.
- [81:11]
B
Good stuff.
- [81:12]
A
Thanks for your leadership in that. Kevin, you want to share what's going on in Idaho?
- [81:15]
B
Yeah, we also have a giving campaign, Giving Day, actually, Giving Week called Idaho Gives. Coming up, it's May 4th through 7th and over 650 nonprofits will participate, hoping to hit the 6 million mark raised for all of those nonprofits this year. So folks can find out about that@idaho gives.org it's also just a great tool to see all the great work sorted by issue, area or geography that's happening across our State. And then the other thing I would say is for nonprofits listening, join your state association of nonprofits, whether you're in Utah joining UNA or in Wyoming and join Wyoming Nonprofit Network or wherever. You know, most, most of the, our states across the country have a nonprofit center, nonprofit association, different names in that realm, but join your state association because that's, it's important to be a part of something bigger than yourself. And there's power in numbers and power in the collective and that's how we advance as a sector.
- [82:10]
A
I just want to double click on that a little bit, Kevin. You know, I'm biased because I was on the Utah Nonprofits association board for several years and just loved working with Jill and her team and even the executive executive director before Jill. But it is, you're right, we're bigger in numbers and we have a larger voice. And I also, in addition to that, particularly if you were dealing with some rural or smaller non profits, being a part of something a little bigger is super encouraging. It's amazing the networking that can happen and the mutual sharing of ideas and best practices. It just helps you feel like you're not alone, particularly if you're feeling pressure right now with your nonprofit organization. So definitely, I would second that from Kevin's point view of, of view. All right, Lloyd, how about for you, what would you pass on things you're doing or anything else you want our listeners to know about?
- [82:51]
E
Couple of things. We're opening our first store in San Antonio, Texas in July.
- [82:55]
B
Okay.
- [82:55]
E
And we'll be greatly expanding in New Mexico and Texas. And then every September, first Thursday of September, we do our annual gala at our Botanic Gardens in Denver. We'll have a thousand people there. We'd love to see people from Idaho, Wyoming and Utah. Jones join us. And it's fun because I have a 22 year old son with down syndrome. He always comes up on stage, grabs the mic and tells some knock knock jokes. A thousand people say PI who? Or ashu. We're also the last, the last two people to come up in our fashion show that we do with our employees with idd. And last year my son dropped to the stage and started break dancing. Dancing. And I look at it and thought if I do that, they're going to have to send about 20 people up to get me off the floor. We give Hero of the Year awards too, by the way, to our employees. ID'd because of who they are as human beings, how they inspire our employees. And for them, it's like an extremely big thing in their life. So it's a lot of fun.
- [83:58]
A
Well, you're doing great work. It's such a great cause. Thank you for what you're doing and for each of you, thank you again for joining us. Being on the show here, just share your insights. There's so much going on the nonprofit sector sector, and I really appreciate your insights and the leadership you give to each one of your states. You're making a big difference. And to my audience, thanks for joining live and those who are listening after the fact, I do encourage you once again to check out the show notes and find out about these folks. They're great people. I'm sure they can. You can connect with them on LinkedIn, but certainly find out about their website and all that they're doing at their organizations because they're doing great work and really helping make their community and their world better. And as always, we'll see you next week. Hey, friends. Well, I wanted you to know that this podcast can be found on itunes, Spotify, Amazon, Google podcasts, and wherever you listen to other podcasts. I also want to encourage you to like subscribe and share this podcast with others. This will actually help us get this great content out to more nonprofit leaders just like you. You can also join the nonprofit leadership podcast community, find other resources and interviews of past guests, all on my website, nonprofit leadershippodcast.org well, thanks again for listening and until next time, keep making your world better. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox, DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business.