From One Caregiver’s Search to a National Movement: The Story of the MS Society

Summary

Nonprofit Leadership Podcast: From One Caregiver’s Search to a National Movement: The Story of the MS Society

Host: Dr. Rob Harder
Guest: Tim Coetzee, CEO of the MS Society
Release Date: May 12, 2025

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Introduction: Embracing a Learn-It-All Mindset

In the latest episode of the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast, Dr. Rob Harder engages in a profound conversation with Tim Coetzee, the CEO of the MS Society. The episode delves into the inspiring origins of the organization, the strides made in multiple sclerosis (MS) research and treatment, the significance of partnerships, and the nuances of leadership within the nonprofit sector.

Dr. Harder sets the stage by advocating for a "learn-it-all" approach to leadership, contrasting it with the traditional "know-it-all" attitude. He emphasizes the importance of curiosity and openness in fostering collaboration and connection within teams. As he aptly puts it, “[...] if you're curious versus if you know it all, then people just have to line up and follow you regardless” ([00:02]).

The Genesis of the MS Society: Sylvia Lowrey’s Legacy

Tim Coetzee recounts the remarkable story of the MS Society’s founding, rooted in the unwavering determination of Sylvia Lowrey. In the mid-1940s, faced with limited medical support and resources for MS, Sylvia took a bold step by placing an 11-word ad in the New York Times public notices: “Multiple sclerosis. Will anyone recovered, please contact patient” ([03:35]).

Despite initial skepticism and rejection from the newspaper, Sylvia's persistence paid off when the ad was finally published on May 1, 1945, coinciding with the end of World War II in Europe. This pivotal moment not only connected her with nearly 50 responders but also laid the foundation for what would become the National MS Society. Tim highlights Sylvia’s fearless leadership, especially as a woman leading an organization in an era dominated by men, stating, “[...] she was just tireless and one of those founders that believe that we could find a cure” ([08:17]).

Advancements in MS Research and Treatment

The conversation transitions to the significant progress made in MS research over the past three decades. Tim outlines the evolution from a single treatment option in 1993 to over 30 disease-modifying therapies available today. These treatments, while not curative, have revolutionized the management of MS by targeting the immune system to reduce its attack on the brain and spinal cord. As Tim explains, “No other disease in neurology has had that much progress in such a short period of time” ([09:38]).

He further discusses the current frontiers of MS research, including early diagnosis, preventing disease progression, and pioneering efforts to repair and restore neural damage. Tim is particularly optimistic about the potential to diagnose MS within hours and the ongoing clinical trials aimed at brain repair, asserting, “I'm excited that we are at a place where we are not far from being able to do have a treatment strategy like we do in cancer” ([28:20]).

The Power of Partnerships and Collaborations

A cornerstone of the MS Society's success, as highlighted by Tim, is its robust network of partnerships. Collaborations with organizations like the Patient Advocate Foundation (PAF) enable the MS Society to extend its reach and provide comprehensive support to individuals diagnosed with MS. Tim emphasizes the importance of leveraging existing expertise and resources, stating, “Why not do it together with them?” ([15:38]).

These partnerships span various domains, including international collaborations with other MS organizations and alliances with the scientific community. Tim underscores that trust and mutual respect are vital in these collaborations, enabling the organization to act as an accelerator of progress and maximize its impact.

Leadership Development: Mentorship and Growth

Shifting focus to personal leadership development, Tim shares the profound influence of Joyce Nelson, a former CEO of the MS Society. Joyce’s mentorship instilled in him the values of listening, clear communication, and recognizing the potential in others. He recounts how Joyce’s guidance taught him the significance of creating space for team members to develop their leadership abilities, echoing sentiments from Adam Grant’s book Hidden Potential: “Marshall Goldsmith is 75 years old and still going and giving strong. And I'm like, you know what? When I grow up, I want to be Marshall” ([25:02]).

Tim candidly discusses the balance between mentoring and enforcing accountability. He likens his leadership style to a blend of visionary leaders like Bob Iger of Disney and coaches like Steve Kerr of the Golden State Warriors, striving to inspire while fostering a cohesive and accountable team environment.

Core Leadership Principles: Curiosity, Solutions, and Progress

Tim outlines the key leadership principles he prioritizes within the MS Society:

1. Lead with Curiosity: Embracing a learn-it-all mindset to foster continuous learning and openness. “Good looks like this, not great looks like this” ([25:29]).

2. Solution-Focused Approach: Encouraging collaborative problem-solving and constructive discussions within the team.

3. Emphasizing Progress Over Perfection: Acknowledging that while high standards are important, incremental progress is crucial for sustained impact. “It's about progress, not perfection” ([27:35]).

These principles are designed to cultivate a supportive and dynamic organizational culture, driving the MS Society forward in its mission.

Looking Ahead: Optimism for the Future

As the episode draws to a close, Tim expresses his excitement and optimism for the future of MS research and treatment. He envisions a future where diagnosis times are drastically reduced and treatment strategies are as precise and proactive as those in cancer therapy. Tim passionately shares Sylvia Lowrey’s aspiration that “MS stands for Mystery Solved” ([30:32]), reflecting a shared vision of conquering the disease through relentless research and innovation.

Conclusion: Continuing the Journey

The episode concludes with Dr. Harder and Tim reinforcing the importance of relentless learning and leadership growth. Tim invites listeners to connect with the MS Society through their website and his LinkedIn profile, encouraging ongoing engagement and support for their mission.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Rob Harder ([00:02]): “Be curious. I think being curious and showing curiosity with your team is a great sign of leadership.”
• Tim Coetzee ([09:38]): “We went from having one treatment in 1993 to today, more than 30.”
• Tim Coetzee ([15:38]): “Why not do it together with them?”
• Tim Coetzee ([25:29]): “Good looks like this, not great looks like this.”
• Tim Coetzee ([27:35]): “It's about progress, not perfection.”
• Tim Coetzee ([30:32]): “MS stands for Mystery Solved.”

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This episode serves as a compelling narrative of resilience, strategic leadership, and the transformative power of collective effort within the nonprofit sector. Listeners gain invaluable insights into the journey of the MS Society, the critical advancements in MS treatment, and the enduring principles that drive effective nonprofit leadership.

For more information about the MS Society, visit nationalmssociety.org, and connect with Tim Coetzee on LinkedIn.

Transcript

[Dr. Rob Harder]

This is Dr. Rob Harder with the Nonprofit Leadership podcast, Making youg World Better. What does it take to be an effective nonprofit leader today? What are the biggest challenges? What are the biggest obstacles? How should nonprofits fundraise in an economy that is constantly changing? All of these reasons combined led me to start this show. And it's my hope that through this series, people can learn not only what it takes to be an effective nonprofit organization, but to hear from effective leaders who who are successfully making a positive impact in their communities. We hope you enjoy the show as together we hear how they are making their world better. Welcome everybody to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. Great to have you joining us today. So there's this great phrase that I want to share with you, but let me back up and give the context of we all know, know it alls, right? When it comes to leadership, there are a lot of know it alls out there. And my guess is if you're like me and like most people, no one really wants to work for a it all that can be difficult to work with. It's their way or the highway. And so my guest today turns that around and says, instead of being a know it all, be a learn it all. And I like that kind of perspective to leadership. In other words, the context is be curious. I think being curious and showing curiosity with your team is a great sign of leadership. I know when I was going through the book Dare to Lead by Brene Brown, that was one of her key principles was don't judge, be curious. It's kind of the same ideas. Show curiosity with your team, with your organization, with your own leadership. And I think that gives you a sense of openness and it brings the walls down with people around you. If you're curious versus if you know it all, then people just have to line up and follow you regardless. Right? And there's just not that sense of collaboration and connection. So I really like that principle of don't be a know it all, be a learn it all. And that forms the conversation with my guest today, Tim Coetzee. He is the CEO of the Ms. Society. And you may be surprised to learn that there's almost a million people in the US Today living with Ms. And Tim will share about his leadership there. He'll also talk about some of the great treatments they're bringing to the table because of the great work the Ms. Society is doing. They have a very interesting background of how this organization started in the first place. And then finally I asked him about his own Leadership and who trained him, who formed his leadership, particularly when it comes to mentoring. And then how is he applying that to his own organization? So it's a great conversation. Always glad to have you on the show with us today. So thanks for tuning in. Now, onto the show. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business. Well, welcome to the nonprofit Leadership Podcast. I have Tim Coetzee here heading up the Ms. Society, which we're going to talk all about today. Tim, first of all, thanks for being on the show today.

[Tim Coetzee]

Rob, it's great to be with you.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Absolutely. Well, I thought it'd be just really appropriate for my listeners to get some of the background on the Ms. Society, because you have great brand recognition. People know the name. I think it's out there. But I don't think people know the story, partly because I didn't know the story of how it started. It's quite a remarkable beginning of an organization. And it came, as I've learned, it began all because of one caregiver back in 1946 who would not take no for an answer and made it her mission to find a cure for her brother. So let's start with that. Just tell us a background of how the Ms. Society got started.

[Tim Coetzee]

Certainly. So maybe what I could do is let me start first with the disease multiple sclerosis, to bring everybody up to that. So basically, multiple sclerosis is a disease of the person's brain and spinal cord. And the way it shows up with many people is that imagine you go to be one day, you wake up and you can't see out of your left eye and your foot is a bit tingly and you're having a hard time walking. That gets you into the doctor, assuming they do everything we want them to do. They get you into an mri, they tell you, here are these spots on your brain, these things we call lesions that are indicators of damage. And they'll say, okay, you've got multiple sclerosis, the disease the multiple comes from. You can have multiple spots in the brain and it can come and go. There's no cure. But the good news is today there's multiple dozens of treatments for the disease, a much better healthcare system, lots more support. We'll get into that in a second. And a lot more research to understand both the disease and get us towards a cure. So that's the disease today. What you're referring to is the origin story of our founder, Sylvia Lowrey. So she was a New Yorker and had her brother Bernard had been diagnosed having Ms. In the late 40s. So in the midst of World War II, basically there weren't a lot of neurologists around in World War II because they were off doing what was going on in World War II. He of course was told, we have nothing for you, just go home and put your affairs in order. Sylvia was basically the head of the family. In effect, she was the younger sister, but she really was the one who was holding the family together through some particularly challenging circumstances and was really quite frustrated both by what the medical establishment had shared and basically told her and her brother every time they went to an appointment. And so she took out, in an act of love, she took out an 11 word ad, put it in what would be the social media of the day, the New York Times public notices section. So basically the Instagram of the day. And it was an 11 word ad that said, multiple sclerosis. Will anyone recovered, please contact patient. And then had a mailbox number in it. That ad appeared in 1945. So that was about a year before the organization started those 11 ads. It was interesting because for a while she tried three times to get the ad published and the New York Times would actually wouldn't publish it because they thought she was actually doing a scam on people. And she persuaded them that, no, I am not scamming people. But then on May 1, 1945, it appeared. Interesting day for it appeared for the history buffs who might be listening to your show. That was actually the day when countries started surrendering and World War II was coming to an end. And then just eight days later, Germany would actually surrender and the hostilities would cease in Europe. So kind of an interesting time to do this. Yeah, but what happened is she would go to the New York Times every few days, people wrote to her. And about 50 people, best as we can piece together, wrote to her. They gathered at the offices of the New York Academy of Sciences and started having community and support. Nobody had solutions, so nobody had recovered. But people wrote back to her saying to do this. And that gave birth to then that community stuck together. About a year later, they formed what became the National Ms. Society today there in New York City. And then just a year later, so imagine this, in July 1947, they funded their first two grants, which in today's dollars would be about a million dollars that they raised, which when you think about it, you know, Post World War II, there's no infrastructure at that time. The major, I mean, you had the American Heart association at the time, I think the Cancer Society was around. You know, the major charity that was driving a lot of work in those days was the national foundation to Cure Paralysis. What we know of as March of Dimes today was focused on curing polio at the time. And that's where she took her inspiration. And so from that ad, fast forward to today, you've got a global movement, billions of dollars of research, a national organization trying to change lives, both in the United States, but around the world. So she is a remarkable woman and a real source of inspiration to me as I think about possibility and what you can accomplish with a determined focus.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

What a fascinating story. Yeah. Like I say, what grit is a term we use a lot now that she had to get this off the ground to take care of her brother, to not take no for an answer and just to really like say, raise money in a time that I'm sure it was incredibly difficult to raise any money.

[Tim Coetzee]

Absolutely. And think about the time as a woman founder of an organization going where women didn't go in those days. And there's this great picture in our office of there's her and all these men, very stern looking men around her. And she was fearless and I think just relentless because she saw what it was doing to her brother and just didn't want to take a no for an answer. I sadly did not have the privilege of meeting her. She had just taken ill when I joined the society and so never had the privilege. But I understand from other people who knew her that she was just tireless and one of those founders that, you know, believe that we could find a cure.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Okay, I love that, Love hearing that story. Okay. Again, another maybe good fact for my listeners to learn is that you may be surprised to learn that there are currently an estimated 914,000, so almost a million people living with Ms. In the United States. So, Tim, when it comes to the Ms. Society, what are the most promising areas of research right now and experimentation when it comes to Ms. Treatment? You mentioned there's been a lot of things out there. And then how are these disease modifying therapies advancing? Like give us some of the background.

[Tim Coetzee]

Of the process of that, certainly. And so there's a million in the U.S. actually, if you go globally, because Ms. Is a global disease, there's almost 3 million people worldwide, and it's probably a little bit higher than that because there's some countries where we don't have good line of sight. You know, what's changed about Ms. Over the last 30 years is first off, we have incredible number of treatments it is when we think about neurological diseases, diseases of the brain like Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, Ms. You know, Ms. Stands out as this incredible success story about what happens when you can have focused science that gets focused on delivering treatments. We went from having one treatment in 1993, when I first started doing research in MS, to today, like I said, dozens. More than 30 if you tally them up. No other disease in neurology has had that much progress in such a short period of time. Migraine is doing better. People living with migraine today have a lot more options, so that's good, that disease. But we don't have similar options in Alzheimer's, Parkinson's and other diseases. So we are very fortunate in that regard. What's been transformative about these treatments, as you call them, the disease modifying treatments, which really, they don't cure the disease, but what they do is they target the immune system and basically adjusted it, tone it down so it's not attacking the brain as much as it used to. And people diagnosed with Ms. Today, let's say you're a 25 year old woman, you go, you get diagnosed with MS, the doctor will then tell them, okay, I've got these four different treatments I can start you on. You're going to come in once a month for either once a month or every six months or once a month, you give yourself a shot, but you're going to go on with life and not really experience as many things will manage you. We couldn't have that conversation 30 years ago, you know, and that, yeah, I mean, the treatments of today are so good at stopping the disease, preventing it. They're not 100%. I don't want to miss your viewers that somehow everything has, you know, been stopped. Not at all. We got lots of work to do, but we have lots of treatments, lots of treatments in development. And the life with Ms. Today is so changed because these treatments. And that came because of research. Without a doubt, it came because of scientists dedicated to focusing on doing clinical trials, finding treatments and a cure. Our next frontier, I'd say from a research point of view, I would say a couple areas that we're looking at. One is we want to try to figure out can we spot Ms. Before it even shows up in a person's life. And wouldn't that be amazing? We're not there today, but we're getting right up close to where we can start identifying who's at risk. Then we need better treatments that are. Somebody can. Let's stop the diseases in its tracks. As we call it, and prevent it from progressing. Then the other place is imagine if we could actually repair the brain, restore what's been lost. And when I started doing research in ms, nobody talked about that. Many neurologists were like, yep, never going to happen. Can't be done. Good news is our brains, actually, contrary to what many of us were taught, have an incredible capacity to repair themselves. And they have the innate ability to regenerate, restore. We have great capacity. It's much better than we're younger. And I know you're younger than I am, so your brain has got better capacity of repairing than I do. And it declines with age. But then everything about rebuilding the body declines with age. So that's, you know, the aging process, life. But we are now actually doing clinical trials to restore and repair the brain. And so this concept of giving people what they've lost is amazing. And then the third research area that we're focused on as an organization is the idea of ending the disease forever. And for us, that's about preventing it. Can you stop people from ever needing to hear the words, you have ms? Like I said, we're not quite there yet, because to do that, you've got to figure out what the trigger point is. But we're, we're on the cusp. And I'm just excited about how the, the, the global community is coming together. It's not just in the United States, but I've got colleagues at other Ms. Societies from around the world. We're all moving together with one voice to, to, to find solutions.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

That's fantastic. Well, my guess is one of the reasons why you've been so successful is the partnerships and collaborations that you've developed over the years. And so maybe you could speak to that. I've had a lot of guests on the show talk about nonprofits in general. The having collaboration and partnerships, to me is such a critical hallmark really of nonprofits, because you can do so much more when you work with others. And I think nonprofits in the best scenarios are ones that are really bridging the gap between maybe government for profit and the nonprofit sector. We'll be right back. Are you looking for an easy and effective way to boost your nonprofit's donations? Well, look no further than DonorBox, the online fundraising platform that streamlines your fundraising efforts, maximizes donations, and simplifies giving for your supporters. With Donorbox, you can create beautiful donation forms, accept digital wallet payments, track donations, and send auto receipts. And the best part, there are no setup or monthly fees and no long term Contracts required. So what are you waiting for? Visit donorbox.org today to get started. That is www.donorbox.org. how are your partnerships between patients, in your case, caregivers and scientists contributing to the development of resources and services for the Ms. Community?

[Tim Coetzee]

Well, you know, you're absolutely right. You know, moving forward on a solution on a disease like Ms. Takes a lot of different players, and maybe I can. I'll chunk it out in different areas. So obviously, with people affected by the disease and their caregivers, caregivers, they are a critical part of our journey of us being able to be connected with them, to connecting with other organizations and then partnering with others to be able to extend our reach in ways that we can't. So, for example, Ms. Does affect people significantly, and there are people who've not had the benefit of the disease modifying treatments because they were diagnosed with Ms. Before. We're able to point them to something. So today they have more needs than other people. And so we've been able to partner with an organization called the Patient Advocate foundation, where PAF extends our reach. They have incredible expertise in things like insurance, case management, finding local solutions to help a person diagnose that move in their journey. And yes, we as an organization could create our own thing like that, but why would we do that when we've got effective partners? And so that's one piece. I think nonprofits often struggle, in my view, with an identity around, like, if I'm not doing it, it won't be as good as if I did it. And I think part of the importance of being a leader in the nonprofit sector is to be humble enough to know where am I uniquely positioned to be successful and where can partners go alongside me? And it's not a criticism of me as an organization that I can't do that. It's just, somebody's already there, why not do it together with them? So we partner there. We have a lot of partnerships in the science and research realm. So, for example, we partner internationally with other Ms. Organizations and really go places where it's harder for people to do by themselves, and so we collaborate there. And again, that partnership is all about trust, as you know. And in the nonprofit sector, right, trust is so important, and we collaborate there. And then obviously, the other collaboration that's so important is with the scientific community. And I often talk about the fact that when we talk about discovering a cure, people discover cures. That's why we need people in universities, scientists. And again, all of that comes together in the Ms. Community. And what we like to do is I like to think about what is our unique value proposition that lets us be an accelerator of progress and maximizer of impact. We do those two right, we're able to transform lives. Love that.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

No great example. Okay, so now as we narrow the lens a little bit, I'd love to hear more about you a bit in terms of your leadership development. You know, this is a leadership show. And so when it comes to you, who has had the most influence on you when it comes to a mentor in your leadership journey, and who inspires your mentorship style now that you're leaving the organization?

[Tim Coetzee]

That's a great question. As I think about it, I've got a number of mentors and sometimes I've got almost an archetype mentor. But I think the person that I would say, she said, tim, you got to pick a person. Okay, I'll pick a person. And that would be one of the previous CEOs of the Ms. Society, Joyce Nelson. She'd been a couple CEOs back. I was a junior staff member at the time, and she. We were starting a somewhat controversial strategy to deploy our research funds in a particular direction that was not everybody thought that the Ms. Society should be investing in biotech companies. And it was very controversial because it was thinking in a new way and deploying resources. And it was just. I was catching a lot of heat for that as the staff lead for it. And Joyce was just so terrific about helping me see the importance of listening to people, the importance of being clear in your communications, the importance of understanding different perspectives and seeing how sometimes you just gotta give space, good voice. And so at that level, that taught me a whole lot about how you bring initiatives forward. And I'd seen her do that when I was helping staff and other effort where we were changing our policy on a specific type of research that was quite controversial at the time. And again, there was that, how do you work with people? And I just was like, we've already decided, what are we having these listening sessions? I don't understand. And then she would help me see and I saw her wisdom. And then the other thing I take about that, that I continue to this day, is she also saw the potential in me and created space for me to develop as a leader. And I've taken that with me in every role about the importance of as I move through the organization and have wider scopes of influence and more people to be constantly looking for, where are the leaders that, with some space, some opportunity, some guidance, potentially some pushing, are able to realize their hidden potential and that you can unleash people. And this is where earlier today I was talking to somebody about how I really admire Adam Grant's book Hidden Potential because it is about ensuring that the people around you who have so much can have so much. Joyce's example around that has stuck with me. She left the Ms. Society 15, 16 years ago, but we've stayed in touch and it hangs with me to this day. And it's just a reminder of the influence we can have as leaders.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

What a great example. I mean, what a great opportunity for you to be mentored by someone like that. And obviously you're implementing that now into your organization. Okay, so here's a question. As a leader, you always bump into this balance act in many ways of, on the one hand, you want to mentor and pour in and invest in your team. On the other, there's a role as a CEO to keep people accountable too, to when they set up goals, they. To follow through. How have you balanced that with, on the one hand, the mentoring, but also bringing that accountability. And have you. Is there a story or two where you've. That's been a difficult combination to hold both at the same time.

[Tim Coetzee]

It's interesting because as CEO, that has become a bit more even acute in my. And I think part of it is, you know, the. The balance, as I think about it, is, you know, particularly when you're in leadership roles, you're given a task the board expects you to do. Xyz Sometimes some leaders are like, I don't want to do that. I don't understand why we're doing this. Or they're like, I had a situation recently where someone said, well, if I'm. Just tell me if we're going to be shutting this down, just tell me and I can move on. And my response was like, no, that's actually not how leadership works. Yes, we've been given a challenge, but what I need from you is to say, give me your best thinking challenge. The role of leadership is not to accountability to me in leadership is when you are challenged, you're resilient to step up and say, okay, here's why. Make the argument. Tell me the why you need this. You're expecting me to just hand it to you? I'm like, I'm not going to do that. I need you to bring what is your unique strength. Because, yes, I could come up with something, but it'll be better if you actually drive it. And that role of alternating between casting a vision and saying, okay, we are all going in this direction versus being more of a coach. And sort of two images I carry in my mind when I work as a leader is, on the one hand, Robert Iger, Bob Iger. Everybody knows who Bob Iger is. CEO of Disney, Very exciting, strong visionary, great communicator. And he serves as sort of a mental inspiration to me in those moments. And then on the other hand, Steve Kerr, the coach of the Golden State warriors, who I really admire a lot, and. Right. What he's trying to do is forge a team. And I believe that in our role as leader, that's what we have to balance, is like, when are you the visionary? When are you the coach? Sometimes you're a driver. And the challenge, and I'm sure you see this in your show, is how you can know which of those roles to play as a leader in the context you're in and to have clarity around that in terms of which one is it in this moment in time. And I'll be the first to tell you, I'm still learning and growing as a leader. I'm never done. I won't be done. And part of that is a growing process.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

I so appreciate you just sharing that last statement. I think that's very significant. I feel like the leaders that I've seen that have continued to be good leaders well into retirement are the ones that are always learning, always growing, never quite there. You're always growing as a leader, and I think that's a great thing to say, particularly for young leaders coming up. It's not like you arrive even though you have a very large organization, you've been doing it for a long time. I think that's a great perspective.

[Tim Coetzee]

I always point people to Marshall Goldsmith as another sort of inspiration because, you know, I mean, this man is 75 years old and still going and giving strong. And I'm like, you know what? When I grow up, I want to be Marshall.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah, totally. There you go. Great example. Absolutely. When it comes to leadership principles, then do you find yourself focusing on. What do you. I should say, what do you find yourself focusing on most when it comes to leading your organization forward or some themes that keep coming up when it comes to your leadership?

[Tim Coetzee]

Yeah. You know, part of it is I've. I've expressed to my leadership team the kinds of things that I'm looking for. And it sort of is a duality where I say, good looks like this, not great looks like this. And so, for example, for me, I think leaders should lead with curiosity. Always begin leading with curiosity. And for me, the dark side of leadership is when leaders take a know it all approach. And you know, to me, I really was inspired when Satya Nadella talked about the importance of shifting from being know it alls to learn it alls. And I just think that that is such an incredible encapsulation of how I think about leadership, which is, tell me more. I want to understand why I want to learn from this. The other piece, you know, around that is, you know, great leadership, I think also starts from the standpoint of being solution focused and not sort of, you know, not agreeing with something in the room, but talking about it outside in the room. It's like, it's got to be in the room is one of the areas that's really important. And then recently I had another sort of interesting perspective that one of our leadership volunteers who happens to be a senior person at Microsoft shared, which he said, sometimes when you're a leader, you need to create space for people to say that it's okay to get the C. It doesn't have to be an A. And I think in the nonprofit sector, we're constantly, it's got to be an A or we're not reaching. And sometimes just the average is okay and we can move forward. And it's not to say that it's not about standards, but sometimes it is a balancing act of, like, getting the thing done. And if it's a C today, well, we can make it a B next year and it can be an A the following year. The importance is the progress. You know, it's about progress, not perfection. That is really an important thing as nonprofit leaders, to know that it's about the journey itself. So some of the principles I'm focused on.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

So good. No, thanks for sharing that. And particularly that moving from a know it all leader to a learn it all leader, that really, that's portable and I love. That's powerful. Love that. I'll make sure that our listeners are listening into that one and leaning into that one, because I think it's an excellent principle. Particularly I feel like as you rise in leadership and your organization, say, gets bigger or you just have an opportunity at a bigger organization, I think even more so you need to become a learn it all right rather than a know it all. I think your people will respect you more when you have that, hey, tell me more that curiosity. I think that's a really, really great advice. Okay, well, good. As CEO, as you think about the Ms. Work and then all that you're doing there at the organization, what are you most excited about and what are you most optimistic about as you look into the future?

[Tim Coetzee]

One thing I'm really super excited about, and it's a work that we're just bringing out. So one of the biggest challenges in Ms. For a long, long time was how long it took somebody to be told you have multiple sclerosis. And the disease shows up very oddly sometimes. And it could take somebody an average of four years from the first time they had a symptom to the diagnosis. Good news is today that's now down to six months, sometimes less. But we're on the trajectory. And this has been something I said is like, wouldn't it be amazing if we could get to a place where somebody could be diagnosed in hours, as opposed to weeks, months, or years? Because that time, imagine it takes you a year to get diagnosed. You've lost a year of treatment, a year of damage to your brain. So I'm excited about where we're going and the tools we have to diagnose Ms. Quickly. Doctors are getting so much better at treating the disease. There's a strong, robust community of people. And where we are with Ms. Today, people can have an experience where they don't have any new lesions, no relapses for five years, which I just think was unheard of. And so today, it's incredible, and I am excited that we are at a place where we are not far from being able to do have a treatment strategy like we do in cancer, where a person can be told by the doctor, okay, here's the score. Your chance of a relapse is 5% over the next 10 years. We're not there yet, but the scientist in me is like, we can get there for sure. Love that.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

No, I love that optimism. And I'm impressed just hearing even more how many treatments you have already. So that's wonderful, and it'll be interesting to see one of these days. Like you mentioned, Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and others, I wonder over time if the same kind of approach you've taken and your organization has taken can be transferred over these other just ongoing diseases that seem to be really difficult to really get underneath. What is the cause of it and how can you deal with it and provide treatment for it?

[Tim Coetzee]

Absolutely. And one of the. So Sylvia Lowrey had lots of different things she was known for saying. One of the things that she was well known for saying is that she was looking forward to the day when Ms. Stood for. Mystery solved. And that's what I'm hoping that we can get there that's great. Now, well said.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Well, good. Well, for my listeners again and those who are listening, how can people find out more about you and maybe find out more about the organization as well?

[Tim Coetzee]

Certainly. So best way to find out about the National Ms. Society is go to nationalmssociety.org all one word. And then if they want to find me, my main Presence is on LinkedIn. You might find a rather tiny presence for me on Facebook. My main social platform is LinkedIn, where I just look up Tim Coetzee and you'll find me on LinkedIn and only thing I talk about on LinkedIn is multiple sclerosis. That's where I use my platform. You can learn more about me there and happy to be connected with your audience through it.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Sounds good. Well, Tim, again, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to share what you're doing. Love the improvements in the leadership you've lent to that organization. Great job. I mean, it's impressive to see all you've done.

[Tim Coetzee]

Well, Rob, thank you so much for having me on your show and it's great to be with your audience.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Hey, friends. Well, I wanted you to know that this podcast can be found on itunes, Spotify, Amazon, Google podcasts, and wherever you listen to other podcasts. I also want to encourage you to, like, subscribe and share this podcast with others. This will actually help us get this great content out to more nonprofit leaders just like you. You can also join the nonprofit podcast community, find other resources and interviews of past guests, all on my website, nonprofit leadershippodcast.org well, thanks again for listening, and until next time, keep making your world better. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox. DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business.