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Nonprofit Leadership Podcast
How Can Social Impact Leaders Turn Their Passion for Social Change into Policy Impact? — Betsy Cooper
00:36:03
Betsy Cooper In this episode, host Rob Harter talks with Betsy Cooper of the Aspen Policy Academy / Aspen Institute about how nonprofit and social impact leaders can channel their passion for social change into tangible policy influence.
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- [00:02]
A
This is Dr. Rob Harder with the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast, Making youg World Better. What does it take to be an effective nonprofit leader today? What are the biggest challenges? What are the biggest obstacles? How should nonprofits fundraise in an economy that is constantly changing? All these reasons combined led me to start this show. And it's my hope that through this series, people can learn not only what it takes to be an effective nonprofit organization, but to hear from effective leaders who are, who are successfully making a positive impact in their communities. We hope you enjoy the show as together we hear how they are making their world better. Hello everybody, and welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Harder. You know, the issues of advocacy and policy change are always ones that are filled with a bit of confusion, I think, and some concern, and mostly because a lot of social impact organizations, when it comes to advocacy and policy change and working with government entities, there's always the concern you may cross the line and potentially at worst, lose your nonprofit status. And so I found when I've had guests on the show talk about how do you find that fine line, if you will, and the guardrails that are appropriate to, but to still channel the desire for social change through your nonprofit organization, how do you do that? Well, that's something where I feel like the more education you get and the more training you get, the more understanding you have of, oh, yeah, there are ways to do this. There's ways to bring about social change. There's ways to be involved with your government, both locally and even nationally, that are well within the boundaries of your nonprofit organization. And so that is the topic of conversation today. And I've got Betsy Cooper, who heads up the Aspen Policy Academy and is part of the Aspen Institute. And it's a really fascinating conversation. It really gets very tangible in terms of what are some of the skill sets you may need when it comes to policy change and efficacy for your social impact organization? And what are some of the tools even that you need to help really bolster your case for something you're trying to bring into someone's view, whether it be on the local government again or state government level? And then how do you turn this passion and maybe you have at your social impact organization, how can your advocacy turn into tangible change for your community? That's the ultimate goal. I think that's why those of you who are really passionate about social change, you want it to actually turn into actual tangible action. So we're going to talk all about that today. It's a really interesting Conversation and as always, love to have you a part of the show here. Thanks for tuning in. Now on to my interview with Betsy. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox. DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business. Well, welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. Today's guest, Betsy Cooper. Betsy, thanks first of all for being on the show.
- [02:51]
B
So excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
- [02:53]
A
Well, so glad you're here to talk all about advocacy, policy and AI. These are big topics. This is your area of expertise. And I wanted to start really with this idea. How do you turn passion into action? I think when it comes to advocacy and nonprofits, there is, I think, a lot of misinformation or maybe misunderstanding is a better word. Where how much can you advocate for your cause and where does it cross the line? Right. And so how do you do that? Well, and particularly when it comes to policy change, so many nonprofits and social impact leaders are very much about bringing change or addressing a major issue in their community, in their state, in their world. And so this is a big area of interest for a lot of people. So that's why I'm really glad you're here. As I said in the intro of this show, you're part of the Aspen Institute. We're going to talk a bit about that and sounds like you've got some new direction even within what you're doing. Would love to hear about that too. But let's start just for my listener's sake, let's talk about that. How to turn passion into action. How can social impact leaders effectively translate their passion for social change into practical policy influence? Let's start there.
- [04:00]
B
Awesome. Well, thanks for asking and thanks for having me. So I guess I'd start by breaking that down into a couple different pieces. So first there's like the process, like what's the process you go through? And then as you mentioned, there are guardrails that nonprofits also need to think about. And so those are really important as well. So at the Aspen Policy Academy, we believe that policy impact is a leadership skill. It's just like learning how to write well or learning how to deal with conflict. Everybody can learn how to translate your ideas into impact. And so we teach that process in a six step program. So how you define your problem, how you research it, then you got to figure out what your solution is. And that's going to be your ideas track. So you're going to think about your idea. And then we have an advocacy track. So you need to map your stakeholders, you need to build stuff that speak to those stakeholders. And then you need to actually go out and advocate for change. So that's the process that we teach. You can break it down into more concrete pieces, but roughly the idea is just that you need to have a really clear goal and you need to actually go out and push for it. And I'll say that it's on that second point that I think a lot of nonprofits could really look to improve, because I think a lot of nonprofits assume, okay, I'm going to go out, I'm going to research this really important topic, or I'm going to do direct services in my community, and then I'm going to write something and I'm going to post it on my website. And then I'm going to hope that a policymaker sees it and decides to change the policy as a result of that. Maybe I'll do a public event to get the word out more generally. But you have to think about what is the likelihood that your stakeholder actually sees that that decision maker that can implement the policy, and then what is their motivation to actually do something about it? And so we teach in our programs is there are lots of things that you can do to make it more likely that your stakeholder decides to make that change. So first, you can actually make sure you share your ideas with those stakeholders. So invite them to your events, go meet with them, have engagements with them, know who they are and understand how to engage with them. Second, you can build stuff that makes it easier for them to understand how to engage with you. So Your big lengthy 60 page report is probably a little too dense for them to dig into. Can you give them a one pager of what the specific policy change you're looking for is? And then finally, you need to actually like go out and talk to them. You need to have that relationship so that they, you get the chance to make the case for why your idea is a good one and, and what would change if you actually succeed in enacting it. So, so that's why we really emphasize for nonprofits, you're really good at the ideas generation, but you need to focus a little bit more on figuring out how to advocate. And then as you mentioned, there are guardrails that nonprofits need to follow in terms of actually lobbying and legislative advocacy. And so usually roughly what that means is it's a little harder for nonprofits than ordinary individuals to go out and advocate for legislation. So first I'd point people to Boulder Advocacy, which is a fantastic organization that has tremendous Resources that if you're interested in legislative advocacy, they can help you figure out how to do that, whether your funding allows that, what lines you can do. But even if you decide you're not going to get into legislative advocacy, you can still advocate to executive agencies in most cases, you can still advocate to judicial systems. Like the courts are getting really important. You can serve as expert witnesses, you can still get involved in communities and, you know, work to mobilize change in that way. So there are tons of things that nonprofits can do, even if you're getting concerned about those legislative lobbying rules.
- [07:37]
A
Well, thanks for laying that out just as a groundwork to begin with. And there's no doubt with social impact leaders and social impact organizations, a lot of them work with government entities and a lot of them, again, are concerned about advocacy. So there are times when government can create some barriers that oftentimes can impact social impact organizations directly or indirectly. So what government barriers would you say are most frequently cause limitations, if you will, to social impact innovation? And what's your recommendation to leaders of how they can overcome that by still building those bridges with government entities?
- [08:09]
B
Great. So for purposes of the question, I'll assume that the worst case scenario that nonprofits losing their nonprofit status has not happened. That would be the worst case, Mario, and that would certainly, if that happens, call your lawyer. That's probably the first. But beyond that, if you assume we're operating in a business as usual environment, there are still a lot of constraints that governments put on. So first, governments can be funders of nonprofits, and when they are both, you can have a lot of requirements that you have to follow, and your funding can be contingent on whims of policy decisions. So that can be really tough. Governments also create regulations for how organizations can operate. So, so especially if you are receiving federal funding, but even if you're not, you can be vulnerable to having your funding removed. If you don't follow a particular rule, you can be vulnerable to having your organization investigated, being called into Congress to give oversight on what you're doing. So, so there are definitely like opportunities where you have to look at government just as you would look at any risk. What is your particular risk profile in the type of work you're doing, and what actions are you taking to try to take into account that risk profile? Then I think there's also just like day to day organizational stuff that everybody needs to follow. There's the tax rules. You need to make sure you're paying taxes if you need to pay taxes, and taking into account that you're following the rules to not pay taxes. If you're qualifying as a nonprofit under those rules, you need to think about how you're taking into account, you know, accounting principles or HR principles, equity, Civil Rights Act, Title ix. Like there's all sorts of government rules to follow. But the other thing that I'll say about that is we tend to think about these as constraints, but they also create an equal playing field. It also means that we as nonprofits all get the opportunity to play by the same set of rules. So the next time you're getting frustrated by a particular government rule that is making your life harder because you have to file this 10th report or your procurement process is more complicated than you'd like it to be, just try to imagine the world in which we didn't have any of that and in which there weren't board roles, then you can also imagine the chaos that would ensue from that. So we're making trade offs here, but in many ways I think that those trade offs can be beneficial to nonprofits because at least we all can set expectations accordingly.
- [10:29]
A
Yeah. When it comes to social innovation, a lot of social impact organizations are very much about innovation and wanting to provide innovative solutions to the communities biggest problems. Right. Let alone the the country or the world's biggest problems. But you bump into some of these policies like you're just talking about, and it seems like policy engagement is maybe one of the key pieces. In fact, maybe I'll phrase it this way. Do you think that policy engagement is often the missing piece when it comes to social innovation? And if so, how can it be better integrated into people's approach?
- [11:01]
B
Yeah, so I guess when we advise nonprofits, you know, we try to tell people that policy engagement is one of the tools in your arsenal. So on the one hand, it's not the only tool. Like, sometimes you're better off building technology, or sometimes you're better off doing direct services, or sometimes you're better off convening people, or, you know, there are many different other tools that you should also have in your arsenal. But depending on what your goals are, if you're not considering policy, then you're losing an opportunity to make change. So that's the when it becomes peace. So for me, the first question I always ask myself is like, what is the impact that I want to have? So let's say I'm interested in helping unhoused persons in the city of Oakland. So if I'm in that situation, I'm thinking, how do I help the homeless Population in Oakland, if the only thing that I'm considering doing is providing direct services, then you might run into some boundaries. Like maybe there are specific rules in the city code that are preventing new shelters from being set up. Or maybe you encounter a rule that isn't allowing certain people who should be eligible to get into shelters from getting into the shelters. Now, you are in a position where you've seen a policy problem. You've seen a place where a change in a rule could help achieve impact more effectively. So if you then choose to say, no, I'm not going to touch that now, you've lost the opportunity to try to make a difference and to make a difference scale. Because the benefit of changing policy is that when you change a policy, you change it for everyone, not just for yourselves. So, yes, maybe you can convince the organization at the shelter to let that one unhoused person in that day, even though they technically don't qualify. But wouldn't it be better to change the rule so that everybody in that situation qualifies? So that's why I encourage nonprofits, no matter what type of work you're doing, to take a step back once in a while and say, would a change in rule make a meaningful difference to the work that I'm doing? And if so, maybe it's time to take the policy lever out and use that to try to make change.
- [13:07]
A
Well, it's interesting. You know, we think about policy engagement, working with government entities. There's almost a different language a bit, or there's tools, maybe a better way to put it, that people need to be aware of and really maximize the use of, to really maximize their impact of what they're trying to do. So things like memos, briefs, policy papers, all of these things can really empower social impact leaders to drive change. Maybe you could talk about that. How do those tools really work? And any support and. Or, you know, recommendations to social impact leaders that are really trying to make a difference through their organization.
- [13:39]
B
I guess the key thing I'd say is policy memos and briefs are great, but they're not sufficient for the work you want to do. So first, let's break it down. So first, a policy memo is usually something that you send to a policymaker that you already have a relationship with. And it'll be a summary of, here's the problem and here's my recommendation for what to do with it. And a good one will put the recommendation up front and then dig back into the problem and why you're making that a policy brief. Very Similar, similar content, but it's generally written for a public audience, so it'll be published on your website. It'll have a slightly different format, but same basic content. An executive summary of the recommendation, you know, discussion of the problem, and more detailed discussion of the recommendation. And then you can write a variety of policy papers, white papers, research papers that get into more detail about these issues and really dig into the underlying research. My advice, nonprofit, is when you are trying to make a policy change, it is important to have either some form of memo or brief that in a couple pages or less, clearly defines the solution that you're advocating for and how to make change. You want to do that because policy people are familiar with the policy memo, policy brief format. It feels comfortable to them. You want to do that, it gives you these ideas really concretely, really clear what you're asking for so they can decide what to do about that. Then it also summarizes things in a really succinct way, which, you know, policymakers are super busy, so it is really helpful to be able to give them information really succinctly. These are not full package that we would recommend you bring forward if you're doing that. Because usually a memo or brief just describes the topic. It just like sort of summarizes it and gives you a bit of an overview. So it's descriptive, it doesn't actually help the policymaker implement that idea. So an even better approach is to couple your memo or brief or whatever it is, with an actual illustration of the thing you want to change. So if you are trying to change your regulation, write up the regulatory text and show them how it would look different. Redline it so they can see what does it say now and what do you think it should look like differently? If you're proposing a new program, write an operational plan for what that program looks like. How many people need to be hired? How much money do you need to spend? What space are you going to use? How long is it going to run? How are you going to evaluate it? If you are trying to get the public to do something, develop the toolkit that shows the public how to do it and actually give them something they can publish. So we really advocate that people not just describe the policy that they want to change, but insofar as they can, to develop the materials so that if the policymaker says, yes, I want to do this, they're ready to hit the ground running and actually implement the idea.
- [16:30]
A
Now that's really helpful. I love just breaking that down and giving some real good Tips for social impact leaders. I mean, I think one of the reasons why social impact leaders really are trying to drive social change is they really want to see these policies get turned into action and actually make a difference right in their community or whatever cause they're about. So what have you seen to be most effective? Where policy and advocacy can actually be transformed into tangible government action. Again, recommendations on that word you've seen that really work well when you work.
- [16:58]
B
Really closely with the organizations, you know, the government agents that can actually make the decisions. That's a great way to make progress. So let me give an example. We had a team of fellows who were interested in the state of Utah's data centers. So for anyone who's been paying attention to artificial intelligence, we're all using it and it uses a lot of energy to actually make AI run through data centers. And so you have to cool the data centers to keep them from getting too hot. And so you need a lot of water in order to cool the data centers. So our fellows were really interested in the water usage in the state of Utah. You know, there's the beautiful Great Salt Lake. For anyone who's ever been there, you want to preserve the Great Salt Lake while still giving us the ability to have energy to run our data centers. And so our fellows sort of explored what the state was doing and realized that they didn't actually have any targets for tech companies in terms of water usage. They did for other industries like agriculture. But there were no targets that tech companies should be aspiring to in terms of limiting their water usage. And so our fellows approached the state with this idea. They did everything I just talked about. They developed a policy memo describing the issue. They came up with a research report that went alongside it, sort of showing some of the evidence that they'd collected. And they came up with specific language that the state could use in terms of new targets and an operational plan for how to do that. They put that all together, they approached the state, and the state was really excited by this idea. And it worked because A, they took the time to actually share the idea with the direct decision maker, not just publish it into the ether. Second, they'd done the pre work to make a great case for the change and to make it easy for the state to implement it. And then they actually like set up the meeting and did it. Like they didn't shy away from asking the tough questions, asking the state to make the change. And the state said, actually, we love this idea and they're doing it. So. So those are great Examples where building those relationships and then making sure you execute a good policy plan can make all the difference between what otherwise would have been just a nice brief published on a website to actually being able to say, hey, we changed the way the state of Utah thinks about data.
- [19:09]
A
Oh, that's a great example. I, I don't. You probably don't know that I live in the state of Utah. I live in Park City, Utah. So that's a great example. I didn't even realize that was going on, but I'm glad to hear that. And you're certainly right. I love the example of how people did all the right steps. Right. And then you actually see government responding, and now there's some real action that has taken place. Okay, so you talked about tools and you talked about some of the process. Let's talk about skills. Because I do think like anything in any organization, certainly when it comes to leadership skills and whatnot, there's certain set of skills when it comes to policy as and social impact leaders need a few maybe skill sets to be better at this idea of bringing about social change. So when it comes to policy and advocacy skills, what specific skills should be prioritized in your mind with social impact leadership training in order to really equip what we would call change makers? So how do they become successful in doing this?
- [20:00]
B
Yeah, so I guess I'd give three buckets for that. So first is, I guess, the bucket of impact. It's the six steps that I talked about earlier. And so this all really about coming up with a good strategy and being prepared to execute it. So I think, again, a lot of nonprofits begin from, I'm going to publish a paper on my website about this policy idea. And to me, that's the beginning of your plan. That's not the end. And so people need to develop a set of tools for figuring out how are you going to break down the different pieces of your proposal into chunks? Who's going to work on those? How much time are you going to take? In what order are you going to approach different stakeholders to try to build momentum? So another piece we haven't talked about as much is like getting other stakeholders besides yourself to support your policy idea. So that's all about, like, strategic impact, figuring out strategic. That's a good skill set. Then second, communication. So we talk a lot about communication in the nonprofit world generally, but there's a specific, specific way and a specific approach that tends to be make policymakers more receptive to our ideas. So we work a lot with technologists as you mentioned, at the top and in the technology world, often it's perfectly acceptable to send an email with no pleasantries at the top or bottom. That's just as quick as possible. And that would be very acceptable in that field. If you do that when you're trying to reach out to a legislator, they're probably going to think you're rude and probably are not going to bother responding. So we teach a ton of communication skills, whether it's like how to communicate for policy. Another key one, put your bottom line up front. A lot of times we like to save the punchline to the end. It's not very helpful to save the punchline to the end if the meeting might end before you get to that point. So we teach a lot of communication skills, whether it's that sort of broad tip or how to write a policy memo, how to write an op ed for policy. Like there are all sorts of how to brief a government stakeholder in five minutes or less, all sorts of tips that you can use to build on that front. And then the third set of skills is really stakeholder mapping and understanding your stakeholders. So there are lots of people that can teach stakeholder mapping tools. We do it as well. And a lot of that is first about figuring out who is your decision maker, who listens to your decision maker, so who is in their circle of trust, and then what motivates those people, what would motivate them to care about your issue? So a lot of we have to tell our fellows, you may care about your issue because of one reason, but your stakeholder may care about your issue for another reason. So with our team was really interested in environmental conservation and that was a really important point. And I'm sure they made that point. But the state of Utah might also be interested in saving money or earning money from their relationship with the tech sector. And so if the fellows can make a case that like this is going to save you money, that's an important thing to lead with because that's something that the state cares about, right? So sometimes your motivation, your stakeholders are not the same. And you want to make the best argument for your thing to your stakeholders, not necessarily the argument that you would make yourself. So, so that's an example of sort of stakeholder mapping. So those are the big three is like strategic impact thinking, communications and stakeholders.
- [23:17]
A
We'll be right back.
- [23:18]
B
Back.
- [23:20]
A
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- [24:20]
B
Yeah, so we're an organization that was founded actually seven years ago and we were originally called the Aspen Tech Policy Hub. And so we really began at the intersection of training technologists who were generally not involved in government or policy and teaching them how to get involved in policy. And it was while we were doing that that we developed this curriculum that's teaching the skills we were just talking about, so skills like how to have impact or how to communicate effectively or how to map stakeholders. And over time we started to realize like that curriculum was more universal than we had originally intended. And so for instance, we piloted it with the environmental leaders and then we worked with a nonprofit cohort where we invited nonprofits across the spectrum to come in and get coaching from us. And we started to realize that what we'd come up with was something different than what we set out to build. We'd come up with a way for people who don't have the time to go do your two year master's degree, aren't ready to move to Washington D.C. to make policy their full time career, but want to learn how to advocate for change. That was something that we could do. And so last year we launched the Aspen Policy Academy to really own that space. And I think the big difference from where we began to where we're going is that when we began we were really focused on subject matter experts. So people with expertise in technology or people with expertise in climate and environment, how can we help you advocate for change? But what we've learned since we launched the academy is that there are a whole lot of people that have more what I would call lived experience or community experience. So you know, you are someone who has lived at an intersection that's really busy and you Almost got hit by a car. And you want to advocate for the traffic patterns to change in your community. And so we're building a whole bunch of programming that's now also focused on civic engagement in which we're helping ordinary people learn how to tell governments what they think about people, you know, things that they care about. So that can be traffic patterns or local parks, or it can be artificial intelligence and, you know, environmental science. So I think the difference now is that we're building a direction where we have programs that both will target specific subject matter and then we'll have programs that anyone can join if you're just looking to get a sense of the skills you would need to advocate for change. And then we love getting the stories back of people actually going out and doing it.
- [26:38]
A
That's the. Yeah, well, you know, in the social impact sector, in my experience there, there's some big challenges that a lot of social impact organizations are trying to address. And I would say some of these issues are so big, whether it be food insecurity, housing, you go down the list. It's too big of an issue for just one sector, like just the social impact sector to deal with it. I think there's this real power in the intersection of, say, government entities, social impact sector, and say the for profit world all coming together to converge to really address some of these really big problems and programs we're trying to address. And then when you start tackling organizations that do international work, even more. So I think there's a sense we need to bring several factors together and several sectors together. So what's your opinion on that? And talk about a little bit how policy change interacts with that when it comes to these sectors coming together to really address society's biggest needs. Where have you seen this to be really effective?
- [27:31]
B
Yeah, so first I'd say when we talk about policy change, we don't just limit it to government. So for instance, you can seek policy change in a company to change a particular policy. So like if Google changes the way that it's filtering out certain content that you might see on its search engines, the change in policy that they have made internal to their company will have dramatic effects on our experience, just as if the federal government had required that same change. So. Or you can change internal policies. So for instance, an employer, I advocated to change our internal parental leave policy to get more leave. So there are lots of different ways that you can change policy and it need not just be government. So I think that's important to state up front. But then Moving to, like, the question about all the big topics. You're absolutely right. There are many topics that we are not going to be able to have just one sector work together. And so I think that's where convenings can be really helpful. It's where bringing together people across those sectors to actually talk about these tough problems. It's where individual advocates trying to push people in different stakeholder spaces to get together can be really helpful. So some of our most successful projects have involved fellows advocating first to a company and then to the government, and then getting the government and the company to talk to each other in order to advocate for change together. And that can be helpful at tackling some of these big issues. And then finally, like, it's worth, when you're scoping an individual project, to recognize that you're not going to be able to boil the ocean. So we always encourage people to, if you want to, like, prevent homelessness in your community, that's going to be hard for you to do as a solo endeavor, but perhaps you can work to get 10% more people into your local homeless shelter and set that concrete goal within your broader mission. And that can be something you can achieve. So that's the other thing I'd say is like, you gotta carve out the piece that you can take on yourself and really work on that. Not get ourselves too stressed about, like, the entire ecosystem, but really try to take little bites out of that and make progress step by step.
- [29:43]
A
Okay, well, let's talk about AI. I've had lots of conversations with guests on the show about AI, and obviously AI and policy work. Now they're intersecting as well. So what have you experienced so far when it comes to methods or specific applications of AI technology that you're seeing in the policy space and the advocacy realm? Are there specific AI technologies that are really creating some greater efficiencies and making it easier for nonprofit organizations to do advocacy and social policy impact?
- [30:10]
B
Yeah. So I think there's a couple pieces. So first, governments are really just at the beginning of their search as to how to use AI. And in fact, next week we're opening a program called Rising Civic AI Leaders, which is specifically for state and local individuals to really bring them together in a community of practice where they can share what they're seeing. So these are folks working in their state or city on AI topics. We're going to help train them on how to work in government more effectively because most of them are new to government. We're also going to give them the opportunity to, like, Share issues. So. So I think it's pretty early to evaluate exactly how AI is affecting these communities. I'll have better answers once we get a few weeks deep into that program. But I will say that what I do know is that states and, you know, state cities, I'm sure the federal government across the board, everyone is looking at AI to see what efficiencies might be possible. And so what do I think is coming next? Well, I think people are going to be digging into AI much more. I think you're going to start seeing it in ways that governments haven't anticipated. So to give you just some examples, cities are starting to see huge numbers of job applications because it's no longer as difficult as it was to apply for a job if you can use AI to develop it. Or similarly, they're getting many more applications from vendors that are not the usual suspects to fill government contracts. So governments are going to be grappling with that. And so I think this is a great opportunity for the nonprofit sector to A, recognize you're going to want to get ahead of this and start thinking about AI is affecting your own business, and B, recognize that there's a real opportunity for, you know, those organizations that already are advanced in AI to start working with government on state capacity and really make progress on some of the problems within government that kind of tend to make things more bureaucratic and difficult to navigate.
- [32:02]
A
No, it's a really interesting conversation. There's so much more we know we could talk about when it comes to AI. I guess maybe the last question I would have for you is talk to me about your sense of social impact organizations and how much they're getting involved with policy change. Do you feel like the engagement factor is going up or is it going down, or is it about staying the same? What's kind of your sense of it with the way you're training and from your experience and perspective, what do you see across the landscape?
- [32:25]
B
Yeah, so just for background, we run programs that are free and open to the public. We have webinars, we've got short courses, and then we have more immersive fellowships. And since we've launched, the numbers of people that have decided to come through our programs have astounded us. We've now had over 10,000 people register for our programs in less than a year. So I think that really shows interest in the policy space. But I'm also seeing in the nonprofit space apprehension around getting involved in policies. So I'm hearing both from nonprofits and funders, like some people are trying to figure out how to change an existing advocacy approach. And you know, that may not seem as valid. You know, if you work on dei, then maybe advocating to the federal government for DEI policy, it doesn't seem as effective as it might have a few months ago. And then at the same time, you're hearing from funders like, this is an uncertain time in the policy landscape. Should we grow, should we shrink? There's lots of open questions about that. And I guess the advice I'd give to anyone in that situation is to say first, there's plenty you can do to make policy change that's within your mission. So you need to think creatively. If you were working in the executive branch before, maybe you want to think about engaging with the court. If you were working at the federal level before, maybe you want to think about the state level or vice versa. Maybe you know, you're working on a topic that is the federal government will be more receptive to now and it's a good time to try to advocate for change there. So I tell people this is not a time to lean out on policy. It's a time to be smart, though, to take a moment to reevaluate how the landscape has changed for you in the past year and to think about that. And we're hoping to host a course. It'll either be in December or February. I don't know which one yet. But. But specifically for nonprofits that are interested in thinking about building their advocacy arm, we're going to have a program especially for you to come learn all those skills.
- [34:23]
A
Well, I have a feeling my listeners may want to just check that out and find a little bit more information about what you're doing. So for the Aspen Policy Academy and just getting more information about you, where would you send them? What's the best place for them to find out more information?
- [34:35]
B
Yeah, so I definitely go to our website, aspenpolicyacademy.org right on the front page. We have tons of open programs that you can register for. Again, they're all free of charge. And then we will definitely sign up for our listserv if you're interested in our nonprofit specific programming, because we'll be making an announcement on that in the next little bit, but I don't know exactly when. So sign up for the listserv and you'll be the first to know when that program opens.
- [34:59]
A
Excellent. Well, Betsy, thanks for what you're doing. There's quite a bit of information here which has been super helpful because I think again, there's a lot of confusion in this area of policy change and government engagement. So thank you for providing a tutorial if you will for those who are listening. So thanks for taking time to be on the show and sharing your insights.
- [35:15]
B
Happy to help and hope to see many listeners in our future programs.
- [35:19]
A
Hey friends, well I wanted you to know that this podcast can be found on itunes, Spotify, Amazon, Google Podcasts and wherever you listen to other podcasts. I also want to encourage you to like subscribe and share this podcast with others. This will actually help us get this great content out to more nonprofit leaders just like you. You can also join the nonprofit Leadership Podcast community, find other resources and interviews of past guests all on my website nonprofit leadershippodcast.org well thanks again for listening and until next time keep making your world better. This podcast is Sponsored by DonorBox DonorBox helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business.