← Nonprofit Leadership Podcast
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- [00:02]
Dr. Rob Harder
This is Dr. Rob Harder with the Nonprofit Leadership podcast Making youg World Better. What does it take to be an effective nonprofit leader today? What are the biggest challenges? What are the biggest obstacles? How should nonprofits fundraise in an economy that is constantly changing? All these reasons combined led me to start this show and it's my hope that through this series people can learn not only what it takes to be an effective nonprofit organization, but to hear from effective leaders who who are successfully making a positive impact in their communities. We hope you enjoy the show as together we hear how they are making their world better. Welcome everybody to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. Great to have you here. Hope you're having a great week so far. And wherever you're listening to the show, so glad you've tuned again. I always love to give a shout out to my international listeners. I know I have every state is represented in terms of listeners to this show, but it's been a growing number of people from different countries. In fact, I mentioned this before, but if you are a listener listener and you're outside of the United States, I'd love to hear from you. Just tell me where you're listening from. It's always fun to hear from my listeners and just know that this podcast is reaching such a wide international audience. Just makes it fun. So we'd love to hear from you. You can simply email me@robharder.com robharder.com Another thing I was going to mention to you, if you've been listening to me for a while, you know this. But for those who are new listeners, I wanted you to know that I. Let me do that again. But if you're a new listener, I wanted you to know that I provide leadership and life coaching. With my 30 years of nonprofit experience. I know firsthand how hard leaders just like you work. But I also know how important it is to have someone you can call on to get help with the barriers and leadership challenges that you will face and you are facing professionally and personally. So I really want to come alongside people and help them thrive and become all they were meant to become by providing coaching and consulting services. So you can go to my website and check out more information. It's simply robharder. Com. It'll spell out different things I do, consulting, coaching, a whole range of different things. But I encourage you to check it out and again, hope I can be of help to you and your organization. As I mentioned, we've got Eric Hodel, who is the CEO of the Midwest Food Bank. Now this is a fascinating Conversation, because the Midwest Food bank is huge. It's not just in the Midwest of the United States. This is an organization that reaches 23 states in the United but they're also serving four different countries around the world. Plus they do disaster relief. So I ask them a lot of questions about how have you scaled, how are you so efficient with the distribution of food? Because that's primarily what they do. And then how do you manage all of this growth as a CEO? And as you'll hear for the size of impact they have, they have a relatively small staff. So all these things are really fascinating. So I think you're going to really enjoy hearing the insights from Eric today. And as always, thanks for tuning in. Now onto the show. This podcast is sponsored by Donorbox. Donorbox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business. Well, welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. We've got Eric Hodel here from the Midwest Food Bank. Eric, thanks so much for joining us today.
- [03:15]
Eric Hodel
My pleasure. Thanks for having me, Rob.
- [03:17]
Dr. Rob Harder
Absolutely.
- [03:18]
Eric Hodel
Will.
- [03:18]
Dr. Rob Harder
I always think it's good for my listeners to hear a bit of the background of my guests, and so maybe just give a quick background of you, how you got into this role and a little bit about the Midwest Food Bank.
- [03:28]
Eric Hodel
Absolutely. Yeah. So born and raised on a farm in central Illinois, went to university, got an engineering degree and hired into caterpillar and spent 20 years in corporate America working for Caterpillar, a variety of engineering, marketing, product development, and just really had a blast kind of growing with that organization, working for great leaders, traveling around the world and moving several times. But after about 19 and a half years, I kind of felt like God was calling me to a different career and started thinking about what my next 20 years of work would look like. And so that caused my wife and I to think through and talk about a transition. And so seven years ago, I transitioned from caterpillar after 20 years and came to Midwest Food bank and so stepped into Midwest Food bank in a CFO role. Just kind of grew with the organization. And it was rapidly growing. It was about 13 years old at the time.
- [04:24]
Dr. Rob Harder
Okay.
- [04:25]
Eric Hodel
And so stepped in and tried to provide some leadership and some support and some structure and have been a Midwest Food bank for seven years and now serve as the chief executive officer. Midwest Food Bank, I alluded to this, is about 20, 21 years old, and we are a nonprofit feeding organization. The space that we play in is really kind of the wholesale space of the food supply chain where we're rescuing food and we're recovering and we're procuring food from food manufacturers, food distributors, food retailers. And we're doing that at the truckload level. And so we're bringing semi loads of food into our warehouses and then we're repackaging it. And then we're serving agencies and pantries that then serve as the retail outlet to serve the food recipient that's in the need. So we have the scale and we have the capacity to bring the food in in large volumes. And then we give that to 2,500 agencies across the US at no cost for them to do the relief work and provide food to those that are in need in their communities.
- [05:29]
Dr. Rob Harder
Great work. And just for my listeners, give a little bit of the scale. You serve a lot of food pantries, you give a lot of food out in a given year. Maybe just give a few quick numbers for people to get an understanding of the scale of what you do.
- [05:41]
Eric Hodel
Yeah, we have 10 locations across the U.S. we have 10 physical facilities and warehouses. We have two locations internationally. We serve in Haiti and we also serve in East Africa. So that's kind of our geographic footprint. We are providing about $500 million of food to 2500 agencies.
- [06:02]
Dr. Rob Harder
Wow.
- [06:03]
Eric Hodel
And that is reaching 23 states in the United States plus two countries. So that's approximately what the scale is. We have about 50 to 55 employees across that footprint. So typically five employees per location, and the rest is done through volunteers that come and serve.
- [06:21]
Dr. Rob Harder
Okay, that's great. Well, maybe before we dive in, a little more specifics and leadership questions. I always think it's interesting to have people on that are dealing with food insecurity, talk a little bit of philosophical background on this issue because it's such a big one. And I think, you know, since COVID I think a lot of people are like, hey, our problems are over and we're going to get back to normal. Well, inflation and the price of everything, especially food, has gone up Right. In the last couple of years, which causes people to still really struggle with food insecurity. So maybe from your point of view and your experience there so far, in your opinion, what are the root causes of food insecurity in America and what role does policy changes have in addressing these underlying issues, in your opinion?
- [07:00]
Eric Hodel
Sure. Yeah. So root causes that. I'll kind of start with the why again. Why do food banks exist? It's typically. Not typically, but statistically, one in eight people are food insecure. One in six children are in a household that are food insecure. And so if you think about that, one in eight metrics it did. Food insecurity, it hit that low point in terms of the need or the high point in terms of number of people in the need. Back during the 2008 economic recession, steadily had improved a little bit. I would say it was like almost 1 in 10 were food insecure. So kind of went from 12% food insecurity to almost 10% food insecurity. And then the pandemic that you referred to kind of put us right back into that 1 in 8 or 12% food insecure. So a little bit of maybe the household economic, economic ground that was improved was unfortunately lost during the pandemic. And, you know, a lot of those jobs, you know, as you. As you shut down or harness an economy, travel industry, hotel industry, restaurant industry, banquet industry, I mean, all of that just really typically hits somebody that's in the, you know, just medium range of income. And so it just. What we really have seen, unfortunately, is those that were on the margin have kind of gotten pushed back into the throes of needing some family support. And that's where food insecurity, the part that we play, comes into picture. I think it's also important to think about. You talked about the why and the root causes, but how are we built as a country to handle food insecurity? If you think about the way we're organized is food banks started in 1930, 67 is when the first food bank actually started. Traditionally, you know, our government has played a role that says, hey, we need to care for our neighbors, which is great.
- [08:53]
Dr. Rob Harder
Right.
- [08:54]
Eric Hodel
And so the way it's structured today is food banks will go out and will rescue what extra food is out in the supply chain. Then the emergency food assistance program is a way for food banks to get funding from the government to supplement their food banks. And then there's also snap, which would have been, depending on the listener, known as food stamps, which is also a way that the government gives the individuals money that they need to put food on their table. So the government kind of has a role to play. And then the food banks are these nonprofit entities that also have a role to play. And together that's how we're trying to feed our neighbors across the United States.
- [09:34]
Dr. Rob Harder
Well, and you really do a good job from everything I can see, to really feed the neighbors there in the Midwest area, you've become good at distribution. Specifically, from your experience, how can you. What do you feel like with the US Food distribution system overall? How is there things. You just mentioned a great description of all the different pieces that come together to make sure people do have food. But is there anything that you've learned because you've got such a wide distribution network, Is there anything that can be improved in the US Food distribution system overall to ensure more equitable access to quality food, particularly to underserved communities?
- [10:06]
Eric Hodel
Yeah, I mean, transportation is an issue for a lot of people. There's probably many of us that, you know, don't think about when we step out of our house, Are we going to have a car or two cars, or, like, what do we have to be able to get from point A to point B? But there is a challenge for many in terms of food access. And so it is a little bit of the crux that we feel like we serve at Midwest Food bank is there's a distribution challenge, and that's the gap that we're bridging. There's obviously excess food and there's people that are in need. And so we try to play that bridge of logistically, how do we get that food? How do we get it to the agencies so that they can get it to their communities? I would say one thing that we do that I'm pretty pleased with is that we do not discriminate to any of our agencies or anybody that wants to be an agency at Midwest Food Bank. So there's really only two requirements to receive food from Midwest Food Bank. Number one is you have to be a nonprofit organization, and you have to give that food to the food recipient or the person in need at no cost. We're going to give them the agency, the food at no cost. We don't want them to turn around and barter or sell it to the person that's in need, but that's it. There's no faith element. There's no other strings attached. There's no size element. So specifically to your question, we work really hard to make sure that we're serving agencies and rural communities because they may only be serving 10 families in western Iowa. Yeah, but. But those 10 families don't have the ability to drive to a large city. And those agencies, they know their role there in that small town or that small community, and that there's 10 families in need and they're going to come get food from Midwest Food bank, so they have it on their shelves to serve those 10 families. And so we're founded a little bit in a kind of an ag root or an ag base. And so we definitely think about getting the food out to agencies, regardless of size and regardless of where their geographic bounds are to try to get the food as close as possible to the person that's in need to help with the food access.
- [12:16]
Dr. Rob Harder
We'll be right back. Are you looking for an easy and effective way to boost your nonprofit's donations? Well, look no further than DonorBox, the online fundraising platform that streamlines your fundraising efforts, maximizes donations and simplifies giving for your supporters. With Donorbox, you can create beautiful donation forms, accept digital wallet payments, track donations and send auto receipts. And the best part? There are no setup or monthly fees and no long term contracts required. So what are you waiting for? Visit donorbox.org today to get started. That is www.donorbox.org hey friends, thanks so much for listening to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. Many of you know that I provide leadership and life coaching. With my 30 years of nonprofit experience, I know firsthand how hard leaders like you work. I also know how important it is to have someone you can call on and to get help with the barriers and leadership challenges you will face both professionally and personally. I really want to help people thrive and become all they were meant to become by providing coaching and consulting services. And it's been so much fun working as a coach, working with clients who are leaders just like you, looking to grow personally and professionally. What you may not know is that I also provide consulting services. Currently. In fact, I'm working with an organization to help them create a clear strategy and plan to raise $3.5 million to expand their organization. So perhaps you're an executive director and you sense your organization has hit a lid on growth and you need a strategy as to how you can scale your nonprofit. Or perhaps the culture you set out to create is not the culture you have currently and it's impacting your staff retention. Or maybe you're facing a major resource challenge and you don't know what to do. That's where I can help. I come alongside leaders and organizations to create strategies to grow their organizations and maximize their impact. If your nonprofit needs help with fundraising strategy or operational effectiveness, reach out today. You can simply email me@robparter.com you can go to my website, robharder.com or you can call me 435-776-5173. I would be happy to provide a free sample coaching session or a consult to see how I can best be of help to you and your organization. Well, thanks again for listening. Now back to the show. Let's keep talking about food distribution and even food waste for that matter, because they go together with what you're doing. You're rescuing food as you mentioned what role can technology play in reducing food waste on the one hand, but also improving food distribution? What have you found on that?
- [14:55]
Eric Hodel
I mean, from a technology perspective, I guess, very simply, we're utilizing technology from inventory.
- [15:02]
Dr. Rob Harder
Okay.
- [15:02]
Eric Hodel
And so, like, we have a full Scantron barcoded system so that when there's a need and we have food, we know exactly where it's at, not only in the warehouse, but which warehouse is it at. And so just that visibility or the data that's in the sky that our whole network can access allows us really well to know what we have. At the same token, it gives us some traceability. So that in the very, very rare situation that something goes out to an agency and there's a recall or there's something that we need to inform them that, oh, this is no longer a consumable product, we have that information available that we can quickly communicate that to keep people safe. And again, a very, very rare situation. So, you know, we work with a lot of food vendors and food donors, and I know they're working on their systems and they're going to continue to improve efficiency. But in general, for us, I would say technology comes into play in terms of tracking our inventory and tracking where our food is across the network.
- [16:01]
Dr. Rob Harder
Okay, now that helps. Actually. That makes sense. And I'm just curious on that, with your technology use, are you utilizing AI in any form? And if so, I'm curious, what are you using AI for?
- [16:12]
Eric Hodel
Yeah, very limited. When we do AI, it may be in the grant writing space or maybe kind of in the creative authoring or art space. At this point, you know, we're not using AI to schedule trucks or, you know, to run our logistics.
- [16:26]
Dr. Rob Harder
Okay. Yeah. I'm just curious. Yeah. I've had people on the show talk about AI can create efficiencies. Depends on what your nonprofit is and what the purpose of your organization, but good to know. Okay, well, let's specifically look a little bit more at the Midwest Food bank, because it is. You impact so many people. You're a large organization providing so much food for so many people. How do you manage to distribute such a large volume of food? I mean, you already mentioned a few of the numbers. In fact, you can share a bit more if you want, in terms of just how many million dollars worth of food that you distribute and how many nonprofits you. And then what would you say when it comes to managing it? I'm sure there's a whole logistical process of not just getting the food out to people, getting the food to the nonprofits, I should say. But these food banks, how do you provide, you know, follow up accountability? Is there any kind of training with those individuals, like purely in the food distribution business, if you will?
- [17:20]
Eric Hodel
First of all, you know, like our, our vision is not only to feed somebody physically, but to encourage them and nourish them spiritually. So there is a kind of the hands and feet of Jesus in terms of which we operate that I would say is more than just a food bank or more than just a warehouse environment. So it's interesting because it's. We have a pretty high efficiency model. 99.2 cents of every dollar goes to food distributed. And so we do run.
- [17:48]
Dr. Rob Harder
Wow.
- [17:48]
Eric Hodel
We don't run really lean. But the same time, like we're not ultra focused on efficiency for the sake of. We know that volunteers are there to give back and they're there for purpose. And so we're not going to take five volunteers that are working on a project and tap somebody on the shoulder and say, hey you, we don't need you anymore. We can do this with four volunteers. We're going to let the five volunteers lean into the project, get the work done. And they're there for community and they're there for other reasons in addition to helping serve those who are in need. So the efficiency piece of it has two perspectives in our mind as we think about it. You know, we're. You're only as good as your team. And when you talk about how are we able to get so much food out to people, I would give credit to, we have a great leadership team. We have a wonderful staff of 55 employees, which is very, very lean. But we have 30,000 volunteers. There you go. That makes up our team.
- [18:44]
Dr. Rob Harder
Yeah.
- [18:44]
Eric Hodel
And so it's those people, the hands and the feet that are packing boxes, driving trucks, doing books, running a forklift, hosting a volunteer group. We are so, so blessed with the number of volunteers and the talent that they bring to the organization. Our job as staff and leaders is to kind of channel them and put them in places where they can be successful. But I would just say we just have wonderful people that come in with a desire to serve and give back. That that's probably what allows our flywheel to keep on spinning. We do think about proven methods or areas where have really yielded results from a different division. And we share those across the organization. And so we are connected across our 10 locations. We share those proven methods or best practices and it helps with our learning curve. And our processes are scalable so that when we start something we're able to quickly take that to the next level and can kind of scale it up. And so all those things, the volunteers, the scalability of our process, the utilization of best practices and proven methods, allows us to grow. And really, we've talked about sustainable growth. We're not growing because we're trying to chase a number. We're growing because there's a need. People like our model. We haven't had an agency yet that has come and said, boy, I really don't like the fact that I get this food for free. They're honored and thankful.
- [20:09]
Dr. Rob Harder
That won't be a problem.
- [20:10]
Eric Hodel
Have the food for free at no cost. And so it's that kind of just doing a good job that allows people to jump on board and we can sustainably grow what we're doing.
- [20:22]
Dr. Rob Harder
Okay, well, let's talk about volunteers. You have so many of them, over 30,000. And volunteers really the lifeblood for most nonprofits. What would you say in terms of how do you recruit them? How do you. I mean, obviously you have a lot of them, and then how do you manage them and continue to retain your volunteers as well?
- [20:38]
Eric Hodel
I mean, we just put a high emphasis on people within the organization. And a lot of people like to refer to this, and they give the tour, but they have kind of the statement that they'll stop at the kitchen area. In most of our locations that has a place that's like a break room or a kitchen area or dining area. And they point out that we have volunteers that feed food to our volunteers. So we have volunteers serving volunteers. And so I would say the culture and the tone of, hey, we appreciate volunteers. We're going to make sure that when they come in, facilities are clean, they have the instructions they need, they can work in a safe, enjoyable environment. And we're not going to micromanage them. We're going to empower them. They're going to need to stay in their lane because things need to be done safely. But I would just say, like, cultivating the relationships with the volunteers. And we know about them, we know about their families. There's just this kind of underground community within the volunteer group. And then we do volunteer appreciation events. We make sure that their experience is positive and just we're purpose. Right. Like, I think sometimes you talk. You'll read a book and talk about intentional parenting. And I would say we're probably intentional volunteer groomers.
- [21:53]
Dr. Rob Harder
That's cool. I like that, actually. That's really good. Well, I love your intentionality with it, too. Okay. You've kind of referred to this, I'm assuming Haiti is one of these locations. But you do some disaster relief, which I think is really fascinating. So number one, you just provide all this food for various pantries around the Midwest, but you do this disaster relief, which to me could. Okay, so on a critical eye here is that mission, you know, drift for you. How do you keep that focused where that could consume your organization, I would guess. And, but maybe talk about the story. How did you first get involved with it and then how have your efforts really been implemented so quickly and efficiently?
- [22:30]
Eric Hodel
Yeah, so again, we have warehouses full of food and drinks and a few resources, but mostly food and drinks. And so when Hurricane Katrina hits, almost 18 years ago, or 19 years ago, I think it was 2005. But when that hurricane hit, we took a. We just looked at our warehouse and this is before my time, but we took a load of food and drinks down because we knew there were people in need. And. And one load turned into 10 loads. 10 loads turned into 100 loads.
- [22:58]
Dr. Rob Harder
Wow.
- [22:59]
Eric Hodel
You talk about mission drift, and it's a great point because as a nonprofit organization, you have to be really, really focused on that.
- [23:05]
Dr. Rob Harder
Right.
- [23:06]
Eric Hodel
But, but we're serving people that are in need. And the people that are in need from a food bank perspective is they may have lost a job. We talked about the recessionary pressures that, you know, causes somebody to lose income or their insurance has gone up or household costs have gone up. So those people are in need. And our goal is really to only fill that need for a season. Like, we hope that that person or that family member can get re employed or whatever health issue they're going through, they can get back to work, et cetera. The food bank, food that goes out through our agencies is serving people for a season of life that might be six weeks or six months or maybe six years. Disaster relief is no different. It's a person that's in need. They just didn't expect they were going to be in need. They went to sleep one night and they woke up the next day and their house was blown over because of a hurricane.
- [23:54]
Dr. Rob Harder
Right.
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Eric Hodel
And so they maybe didn't lose their job. They maybe didn't, you know, have a long kind of ramp into kind of a tough family budget, but in an instant, because of a natural disaster, now they're in need. They never thought they were going to need food. They never thought they were going to need drinks and water, but they do. And so that season that we serve them is a whole lot shorter. But for us, that kind of really Fits within the mission of what we do. We've got access to food and drinks. We got logistics capability that we can mobilize that to wherever it's needed. And so that's. That's how and where we play within the disaster relief space. It can be California wildfires to southeast hurricanes to flooding in the Dakotas in the springtime because of the spring thaw. So any type of natural disaster that just unfortunately has displaced somebody from their ability to have a house or food, we try to step in and for that very short season, provide them the food and drinks.
- [24:48]
Dr. Rob Harder
Now, thanks for sharing that. And I love how you incorporated your mission. Just applied it in a different way. Like I said, with a surprise storm that came through, and all of a sudden, now there's something who really does need food today. In fact, they need housing and food and all kinds of things. Okay, so you've got dis relief. You also got another piece, and again, you briefly mentioned it was their global impact beyond just the Midwest and the United States. You impact a couple different countries. Talk about that. How did you extend your mission to more of a global focus? And, you know, it's distributing food across, you know, different countries. Talk about that a little bit.
- [25:20]
Eric Hodel
Yeah, we're in Kenya primarily, but a few countries over there in East Africa, and we're in Haiti.
- [25:26]
Dr. Rob Harder
Okay.
- [25:26]
Eric Hodel
Grassroots kind of. Again, we had just individuals that had people that had connections that were interested, and then they saw the Midwest food bank model and they said, hey, here's an organization that's trying to feed people, but also trying to show the love of Christ through their mission. And it was just kind of a natural fit for both those divisions to kind of come online and. And again, we're mobilizing food. Each of them operates differently. Haiti does not have a lot of economic capability at all. So we're taking food from the US Shelf. Stable product. Tender mercies is a meal that we package here that's going down into Haiti, East Africa. We're buying those ingredients local from local farmers in Kenya. So we're stimulating the economy through the purchase of those raw goods. And then we're manufacturing and turning it into tender mercies, which when added to boiling water, now you have a nutritious, flavorful meal of rice and beans, vitamins and seasoning. So, like a lot of entrepreneurial growth, you kind of just step forward and you figure it out. And for both of those countries, you know, we've got a lot of support and a lot of interest that helps us kind of drive our mission forward. To serve people both internationally as well as what we have here in the States.
- [26:42]
Dr. Rob Harder
Okay, well, final question about food insecurity, in your opinion. Let's talk about the real local level. We talked about global disaster relief. Now back to that local level, because so many people that are listening have a very directly local impact of where their nonprofits located. What could be more done, do you feel like, at the local level, to create more sustainable solutions when it comes to food insecurity?
- [27:04]
Eric Hodel
You know, again, talk about mission drift. It's a balance, but essentially most people are needing a little bit of holistic support or wraparound services. And so I would say teamwork, collaboration, partnership by nonprofits at the local level is pretty key. So if you're in a community and you may have somebody that's providing housing, you may have somebody else that's providing closing, you may have another nonprofit that's providing food. But I think it's important and it's helpful that when they work together and they may do joint fundraising events, they may share a facility, there's a balance of they have their lane and they're focused on what their mission is, but also recognizing that that that family or that person that's in need, probably, if they're needing food, they probably have some other social or economic things that they also are needing, so help, job training or resume writing. And so I think you're seeing that a little bit in a trend. It's more. It's in pockets. But you're starting to see some partnership of nonprofits that understand, like, together we want to serve our communities. And that that just takes teamwork, collaboration, and probably like anything in life, just a lot of communication. So people that can just kind of help tie that together. And so I think people that are in communities can just be aware of that and can be kind of looking for opportunities on how they can help. And they may find a different area that fits their interest, or they may be the person that helps provide the conduit or the glue to kind of tie some of those together.
- [28:33]
Dr. Rob Harder
Well, it's been so fascinating so for my listeners. You know, one of the things that I was excited to hear from you all at the Midwest Food bank is just how you do things. Because everything I've read about what your work is doing, and you highlighted a few more of those things, you have high impact. You're very clear on your mission, and you're really efficient at what you do, and you're able to provide so much work here in the Midwest. But also, again, you already mentioned a couple of global outreaches that you do, plus the disaster relief. So for my listeners who maybe have piqued their interest, now that they're hearing about the Midwest Food bank, how can they find out more about the Midwest Food bank and how can they learn more about you?
- [29:06]
Eric Hodel
Very simply, I would direct them to our website, www.midwestfoodbank.org. and again, I know you've got a broad array of listeners. We have locations in Florida and Georgia, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Indiana, Illinois, Texas, Arizona. We're providing food into 23 states from those locations. But wow, look us up Midwest food bank.org inquire about a place that's close to you and. Or just inquire about the organization in general. You might be surprised how close we are to where your listeners are at. Yeah, but it's a good place to find out what we do and you can connect with us through that site.
- [29:47]
Dr. Rob Harder
Well, again, Eric, thanks so much for being on the show to share your insights and thanks for all you're doing to provide food for so many, really millions of people. So thanks for all you do.
- [29:55]
Eric Hodel
Thank you, Rob. Appreciate it.
- [29:57]
Dr. Rob Harder
Hey, friends. Well, I wanted you to know that this podcast can be found on itunes, Spotify, Amazon, Google podcasts, and wherever you listen to other podcasts. I also want to encourage you to, like, subscribe and share this podcast with other others. This will actually help us get this great content out to more nonprofit leaders just like you. You can also join the nonprofit leadership podcast community, find other resources and interviews of past guests, all on my website, nonprofitleadershippodcast.org well, thanks again for listening. And until next time, keep making your world better. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox, DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business.