How this social impact leader is using data and technology to improve the foster care system

Summary

Nonprofit Leadership Podcast: How a Social Impact Leader is Using Data and Technology to Improve the Foster Care System

Release Date: June 22, 2025

Host: Dr. Rob Harder
Guest: Ben Sand, Founder of The Contingent
Podcast Title: Nonprofit Leadership Podcast
Description: The Nonprofit Leadership Podcast explores critical issues faced by nonprofit leaders, featuring authentic stories from impactful leaders who share effective strategies and practices. Hosted by Rob Harder, the show aims to inspire and educate those striving to make a positive difference in their communities.

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Introduction and Context

[00:01] Dr. Rob Harder opens the episode by addressing the pressing issue of foster care in the United States. He shares a startling statistic: “Nearly 400,000 children are impacted by foster care each year in the U.S.” He highlights the significant challenges within the system, including a shortage of foster homes, which leads to disruptions in children's lives, such as being separated from siblings and cultural communities.

Notable Quote:

“There’s not enough foster homes right now to ensure placements that keep kids connected to their schools, their siblings, their cultural background, which causes further disruption to their lives.”
— Dr. Rob Harder [00:45]

Rob introduces the guest, Ben Sand, founder of The Contingent, an organization leveraging data and technology to enhance foster care placements through the Every Child Initiative. Ben is not only a leader in this innovative approach but also a foster parent, bringing personal experience to his professional endeavors.

Challenges in the Foster Care System

[03:00] Ben Sand delves into the current landscape of foster care in the U.S. He presents crucial statistics:

• 350,000 children are currently in foster care.
• Approximately 200,000 foster homes are available, a number that has been declining over the past five years.

Ben emphasizes the complexity of cases, noting that many children in foster care have “more complex needs” and highlights the systemic failure to place these children in safe and stable environments.

Notable Quote:

“We are failing to be able to care for kids in a safe kind of loving family environment.”
— Ben Sand [03:54]

Origin Story of Every Child Initiative

Ben shares the origin story of the Every Child Initiative, which began in Oregon in 2013. Initially a grassroots effort by faith communities, the initiative quickly gained momentum, leading to its expansion across the state. A pivotal moment occurred in 2019 when Oregon faced a class-action lawsuit regarding foster care. The state entrusted The Contingent with the responsibility of foster family recruitment and volunteer management.

Faced with insufficient traditional recruitment methods, Ben and his team recognized the need for innovation. They discovered that only 5% of the population would consider becoming foster parents, illustrating the difficulty of finding qualified families through conventional means.

Notable Quote:

“We needed to innovate.”
— Ben Sand [07:47]

Role of Data and Technology

The conversation shifts to how The Contingent employs data and technology to address the foster care crisis. Ben explains that inspired by political campaign strategies detailed in an Atlantic article titled “When the Nerds Go Marching In”, they partnered with Microsoft to develop a tech-driven solution similar to election machines but tailored for foster care recruitment.

They developed the Air Game Solution, a tool that uses AI and targeted digital marketing to identify and engage potential foster parents more effectively than traditional methods. This approach allows them to “overwhelm the system with qualified leads” by targeting specific neighborhoods and demographics that match the needs of children entering foster care.

Notable Quote:

“What we're then able to do is really talk to that primary user... that level of detail, that level of precision that's impossible without data and technology.”
— Ben Sand [12:15]

Ben emphasizes the importance of starting with the right research questions and partnering with experts, such as those from the University of Chicago, to conduct gap analyses. This foundational work enables The Contingent to create detailed typologies of successful foster families, allowing for precise targeting and recruitment efforts.

Notable Quote:

“We’re like the nerdiest nonprofit on the planet.”
— Ben Sand [11:14]

Expansion of the Initiative Nationally

Expanding beyond Oregon, The Contingent now operates in Arkansas and Tennessee, each presenting unique community dynamics. Ben underscores the importance of cultural sensitivity and contextualized communication tailored to each state's distinct societal norms and values.

For instance, in Tennessee, partnerships with the governor’s office and faith communities play a crucial role, while in Oregon, a more urban-centric approach is necessary. The ability to A/B test ads and customize messaging ensures that their outreach resonates with diverse populations within each state.

Notable Quote:

“We want to have the ability to recognize not just like state differences, but regional differences within a state.”
— Ben Sand [17:22]

Leadership Principles

Transitioning to leadership, Ben discusses the guiding principles that drive The Contingent’s success:

1. Adaptive Leadership: Inspired by the book “Leadership on the Line”, the organization embraces adaptive leadership to navigate the complexities and rapid changes in the foster care system.

2. Entrepreneurial Operating System: Based on the book “Traction”, this framework helps The Contingent maintain clarity and accountability, crucial for measuring impact and communicating results to stakeholders.

Ben highlights the importance of innovation and clear communication in leadership, ensuring that the organization can swiftly adapt to new technologies and effectively demonstrate their return on investment (ROI) to donors and partners.

Notable Quote:

“Can you adapt at the speed of innovation and when you do, can you communicate the return on investment of what your organization is able to accomplish?”
— Ben Sand [25:48]

Future Goals and Next Steps

Looking ahead, The Contingent aims to scale nationally, with a target of expanding to 12 states within the next three years. Ben discusses the strategic investments made in their technology infrastructure, including:

• Microsoft Dynamics CRM
• Power Platform
• Cloud-based data management

The organization plans to establish a Center for AI Excellence to leverage advancements in artificial intelligence, further enhancing their ability to communicate, recruit, and manage foster care placements efficiently.

Notable Quote:

“Being able to capitalize on the way that AI is going to change how we are able to communicate to people, to get more volunteers, get more foster parents, get more donors.”
— Ben Sand [22:16]

Conclusion and How to Learn More

Dr. Rob Harder wraps up the interview by emphasizing the critical role of data and technology in advancing nonprofit missions. He encourages listeners to explore The Contingent’s work further through their website and Ben’s TED Talk on YouTube, titled “Harnessing the Power of Technology for Foster Care.”

Notable Quote:

“Keep making your world better.”
— Dr. Rob Harder [27:03]

Listeners interested in supporting or learning more about The Contingent can visit www.thecontingent.org or watch Ben Sand’s TED Talk for an in-depth understanding of their innovative approach.

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Key Takeaways:

• Data-Driven Solutions: Leveraging AI and targeted marketing to enhance foster care placements.
• Scalable Innovation: Adapting successful models across diverse states with tailored strategies.
• Leadership in Technology: Embracing adaptive and entrepreneurial leadership to navigate and lead in the nonprofit sector.
• Future-Oriented Goals: Expanding nationwide and establishing an AI excellence center to stay at the forefront of technological advancements.

Final Thoughts:

Ben Sand’s approach with The Contingent exemplifies how nonprofits can harness the power of data and technology to address systemic challenges effectively. By combining personal experience with innovative strategies, The Contingent is making significant strides in improving the foster care system, ensuring that children receive the stability and care they deserve.

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This summary was crafted based on the provided transcript and podcast information, aiming to encapsulate the essence and key insights from the episode. For a deeper dive, listening to the full episode is highly recommended.

Transcript

[Dr. Rob Harder]

This is Dr. Rob Harder with the Nonprofit Leadership podcast, Making youg World Better. What does it take to be an effective nonprofit leader today? What are the biggest challenges? What are the biggest obstacles? How should nonprofits fundraise in an economy that is constantly changing? All these reasons combined led me to start this show. And it's my hope that through this series people can learn not only what it takes to be an effective nonprofit organization, but to hear from effective leaders who are are successfully making a positive impact in their communities. We hope you enjoy the show as together we hear how they are making their world better. Welcome everybody to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in. I want to start today with a stat that you may be surprised by. Did you know that nearly 400,000 children currently are impacted by foster care each year in the U.S. now here's the challenge. There's not enough foster homes right now to ensure placements that keep kids connected to their schools, their siblings, their cultural background, backgrounds, which causes further disruption to their lives, as you can imagine. So the foster care system is a real challenge right now in the US There's a lot of barriers and there's just not enough foster homes, not enough foster parents. And so today's guest that I have on the show is doing something really powerful to help improve outreach to get more foster kids placed with foster parents in the most effective way, to place them in places where their siblings can be together, ideally in cultural backgrounds that really match and really minimizing the disruptions to these kids lives. And what's cool about my guest is that it's they go about doing this and not your normal way. What I mean by that is they're using primarily data and technology to improve the process of placing kids in proper foster homes. So my guest is Ben sand and he runs the contingent and they're coming up with all kinds of creative ways, again utilizing data and technology primarily. And they've created what's called the Every Child Initiative and they're working nationally with different state child welfare systems and they're really seeking to again make this process of getting foster kids into the proper foster homes more effective. And so I think you're going to really enjoy what Ben has to say because he brings this real heart, of course, for foster kids in general. He's a foster parent himself and he's really maximizing the benefits of data and technology to make the outreach and this overall work with the contingent that much more effective. And so as you think about your own nonprofit and how you can utilize data and technology to actually further your mission to be more effective in what you do. This is really the heart of my conversation with Ben. Well, again, thank you so much for tuning in. Now on to the show. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox Donor Box, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business. Well, welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. I have Ben sand with me today. Ben, thanks for taking time out to be on the show today.

[Ben Sand]

Absolutely. Thanks, Rob, for having me.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Oh, you got it. Well, I'm excited to introduce my listeners to all that you're doing and the work you're doing, particularly with getting tools and technology to really help make it more efficient to serve those that you're helping come alongside. So let's give an overview because a lot of what you do right now, you're helping with foster care outreach or the foster care system in the US Specifically. This is what you've been really focused on professionally and personally. Thank you first of all for all you're doing to help with that. It's a huge issue in our country and there needs to be more people like yourself that are just helping it become an easier way to help those who are really falling through the cracks and just need that support in the foster care system. So maybe you can start with that. Start by sharing just some of the most pressing challenges facing the foster care system in the US Today. And how does the shortage of foster homes really impact the well being and stability of children in care at this time?

[Ben Sand]

Yeah, absolutely. We have a, we have a particular challenge that we're facing in our country today as it relates to some of the numbers. And I'll start with the numbers, although this is very much about a lot of kids and family stories. But right now in the United States, there's 350,000 kids that are currently in foster care. There's just shy of about 200,000 available foster homes or homes that are open to care for those children. And that number has been on the decline. There have been, there's been a decline of the number of foster families across the United States now for five years running. There's some good news, though. The good news is, is that we are also seeing a trend of less kids going into foster care. But what kind of converges in that moment is that for the kids that, that are being temporarily removed from their parents, these are children that tend to have more complex needs. And we across the country are failing to be able to care for kids in a safe kind of loving family environment. And so we're seeing far Too many kids that are being placed outside of their community or sibling groups that are being split, or kids that have complex needs that are not in. In home placements. And so what we need in this country is not just more foster families. We need the right families to step forward to care for particular children with complex needs. And that's becoming increasingly difficult across the United States.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Okay, that's great. Well, now we can talk a little bit about specifically the work you're doing. Can you share the origin story, perhaps with all of us? With every child in Oregon? And what inspired the Contingent to focus on foster care as one of your core missions?

[Ben Sand]

Our organization runs an initiative, like you've said, called Every Child. Every Child started in Oregon in 2013. There were a few faith communities that decided they wanted to basically adopt their local child welfare office. And a stream turned into a river and the river turned into a bit of a flood. And we saw a lot of interest coming from a wide range of folks from across the community. In Portland, the state of Oregon asked us to begin expanding that work across Oregon. And in 2019, as we were doing that, the state of Oregon was sued in a class action lawsuit. And in that moment, when the leadership of the state of Oregon asked our organization, the Contingent, to take the responsibility for foster family recruitment and volunteer recruitment and to be held accountable to trying to solve that problem for the state of Oregon. And that is something that is one of those kind of harrowing moments where on the one hand, there's this ethical dilemma. You don't want to say no, but the other side of that dilemma is how do you say yes if you don't actually believe that you have a solution to meet that need? And at the time, all of our foster family recruitment is what I'll call ground game recruitment or analog kind of grassroots relational work. It's setting up a booth at the county fair, or doing a church presentation, or talking to the rotary, or setting out a lawn sign, trying to get people to step forward and say yes. And we had been doing that for seven years. And so we knew that there was no. You can hire a thousand people to do that work across any given jurisdiction, and there's no way you're going to be able to. To meet the need. We did some research and we found that only 5% of the population will ever even consider becoming a foster parent. So when you're doing this work, you're looking for a needle in a field of haystacks. And we. It was in that moment where we knew that we needed to innovate. And I won't go in into all of that. I. I know we'll maybe get into that a little bit in the work we've been doing with Microsoft. But the origin story really was a group of faithful community members asking, how do we care for our neighbors? It was a kind of a grassroots development. And then the big ask came and that's when we had to innovate in the nonprofit sector.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

I think what's especially unique is this mission driven focus that people have, and I could just sense it comes right out of you and this group that's obviously gathered around this cause. Love that. And maybe you could speak a little bit more to that. You already talked about what drew you in. Is there anything el that kind of drew you in specifically to this work? Because you've been. You do a lot of things, but obviously you're. You're really focused on this effort. Is there anything else that just really has drawn on you now that you have been investing so much time into this project?

[Ben Sand]

Yeah, I'm a foster and adoptive parent myself, and so I've had the chance to experience the system from that angle. You know, I often say that, like, being a foster parent's like a choose your own adventure game. Like you have no idea what's behind great or a, B or C. And it's a chaotic environment. But what is particularly interesting about foster care is that it's a solution or it's a challenge that technically state governments are responsible to solve for, but they have a dependency. And that dependency is they need the community and families in the community to say yes. And so I've been fascinated by that intersection of how community solutions intersect with government problems. And that really animates a lot of the work that we do at the Contingent.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

That's cool. No, I love that. And I love that working together in collaboration, because I think it's so important for some of the big issues like this one. This is a big issue that we need lots of resources to be focused on. Okay, so the Contingent has been recognized for really some innovative use of data and technology when it comes to the nonprofit sector. What led the organization to make such a significant investment in tech driven solutions and how is this shaped your impact so far?

[Ben Sand]

Yeah. Well, I'll go back to that moment in 2019 when the state of Oregon asked us like, hey, there's a lightning rod. And we're holding it now, and we're asking you to hold it with us, which means that there'll be increased scrutiny on your Work, but can you solve this problem? And it was in that moment, actually, Rob, where I read this article in the Atlantic, and for your listeners, they might be interested. The article was entitled when the Nerds Go Marching In.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Oh, that's funny.

[Ben Sand]

And the article goes on to explain how the RNC and the DNC built these big election machines using data and technology. And when I read the article, I thought, that's an amazing kind of capability to talk to people with particular interests. What if we hacked those tools and built one for the foster care use case? And it was that kind of organizing question that led me to reach out to Microsoft and to invite them to kind of go all in with us to try to build a version of those machines to mobilize community members, not to vote or to make donations, but to volunteer or to step up as foster parents. And so we went into the lab with Microsoft and came out and we built what we call the air game solution to mobilizing community, which is using data and technology to complement the work that people are doing on the ground to overwhelm the system with qualified leads. And so that was the moment, I think, for us that really forced us to reckon with looking at our business model and going all in with data and technology. I often say that now, about five years later, we're like the nerdiest nonprofit on the planet.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

That's awesome.

[Ben Sand]

We're a group of data. Yeah. We're data analysts and designers and engineers and quants and researchers. And we spend, you know, there's 70 of us that spend all day, every day obsessing about how do we find the right homes for kids. So we've come a long way from that moment, but that was kind of the impetus for stepping into the data and technology space.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Okay, so you're. We're going to maybe get this a little bit, but maybe we can jump right into it now because you just said something very interesting. You're right. You've got this huge passion like any other nonprofit. You got this big mission driven in a spirit about you and these other 70 folks. But, yeah, your primary application of that is data and technology. So for maybe my skeptic out there that's listening and like, well, how is that really moving forward the mission, right when it's about people and serving and talk more about how the data and technology has really helped expand your work and really given you much more to work with so that you can, you know, gather more excitement, get more donors behind it, because you can actually show the data and the impact you're having. So maybe you could speak to that.

[Ben Sand]

Yeah, absolutely. And I would say for the skeptics, super fair. To be skeptical of it. I'm going to try to articulate and convince the skeptics as to why they too should consider using data and technology in their mission outlay and in their programmatic footprint. Everything that we do starts with the right research question. And so we actually partner with a group out of the University of Chicago, a guy by the name of Steven Levitt, who wrote the book Freakonomics. What we do is when we partner with states, we start by creating what we call a gap analysis. So we want to understand who are the kids that are being removed, what are their defining characteristics, how many foster families are in the system, who are those families? And we want to particularly know who are the families that have been successful in accomplishing placement, stability and permanency. And with that information, we create an analysis and we. We map out any given state by zip code to really understand where are the particular needs. And we get really granular, really quick to understand what's going on in every zip code in Oregon or Arkansas or Tennessee. Once we've developed that research, what that gives us the ability to do is create typologies and a typology. The typologies we form are trying to understand who are the successful foster parents in any given jurisdictions. What's their ethnicity, their income, their geography, their how many kids are in their home and what's their consumer behavior. And then what we do still kind of on the data side is we then go and buy data, large sets of data for everyone in a given jurisdiction that looks like families, along those characteristics that have been successful in foster parenting historically. And so what we're then able to do is leverage AI and digital marketing, targeted marketing strategies, as well as some other technology we've developed with Microsoft to be able to not just kind of like sit for eight hours at the farmer's market and hope the right person passes your booth, but to actually begin to target folks in very particular neighborhoods that have very particular characteristics that we know match the needs of kids that are entering foster care in those communities. And so we're taking this kind of scattershot approach to community mobilization. And we're getting really laser focused. And so what we're able to do is really talk to that primary user and talk to them in a way that addresses their attitudes, beliefs, behaviors, questions to incentivize them to become foster parents. Our message isn't just like, hey, we need more foster parents. It's Rob. Did you know that in your neighborhood there are two teenage girls that have been placed in foster care? They've been split and placed out of your county. We have reason to believe that you, Rob, could be a really great foster parent for this, these kids, you and your family. And it's that level of detail, that level of precision that's impossible without data and technology. And so while there's a lot of really fancy things that we can do and we can get super into the tech, the reality is in the days ahead and this is going to be increasingly true with AI, I think that the nonprofit sector has an opportunity to recognize that people make decisions differently now. And it's going to be through the use of data and technology that is going to mobilize the community assets we need to serve kids and families.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

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[Ben Sand]

So I'm coming to you today from Portland, Oregon. And we also work in Arkansas and Tennessee, which are three very different communities. And each of those communities are beautiful in their own way. I think one of the things that we have found in our work is there's a unique ability to be able to honor the people that live in any given jurisdiction and the ways that community life happens there. And so with every child, for example, in Tennessee, you're going to see a lot more work that's happening on the ground through the governor's office or through faith communities. You're going to see a lot more work that's taking place by rallying people from those kinds of, particularly from the faith community in particular. And what we want to be able to do is honor those cultural sensibilities and be able to respond and talk to people in the language that they know to talk to people with their particular persuasion, if you will, as it relates to whether that's religious life or political life or neighborhood life. And because what we don't want to do is have some sort of an agenda as to how we think people should make decisions. What we want to do is actually talk to people in the language that they use in their communities to step forward to serve the kids that live in their communities. And so the power of our kind of air game approach is that we're ab testing ads all the time with the goal of being effective in mobilizing people in those particular communities. And the same is true in any state. The folks in East Tennessee have different perspectives than the folks in West Tennessee or in Middle Tennessee. And so we want to have the ability to recognize not just like state differences, but regional differences within a state. I live in Oregon. People think of Oregon as a very blue state, and it is. But the reality is 90% of the geography of Oregon are Republican districts. It's a very red state from a geography perspective. It's just the majority of the people live in the i5 corridor and from Portland to Eugene to Salem. So we know that using Portland language in rural eastern Oregon is never going to fly. And so I think it's that ability to have tools that can be contextualized that makes us effective.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Got it. Yeah, that's so interesting. Like I say, just very different states, different contexts, even within Oregon, the state of Oregon. So that's really interesting and a good leadership application for my nonprofit listeners, because sometimes as you grow a nonprofit, you start serving widely different cultural centers or different communities and cities. As you expand your nonprofit, you're going to run into the same thing you're running into. So well said. If you're advising philanthropy or the public sector leaders on turning around outcomes when it comes to foster care, Specifically, what key actions or shifts would you recommend to really drive systemic change in their organization? What's your take on that from your experience so far?

[Ben Sand]

Yeah, we've learned a lot about this over the years. I think, particularly in the child welfare space. What we recognize, and it's important to recognize is it's one thing to say like, hey, we need more foster parents. And I think that that's a pretty common message and it's a message that's been spread for decades. And while that's true, I think what, what we've learned is when you step into a relationship with a state agency that oversees child welfare, it's. There's a lot of nuance of what's going on. What we need to see is less. Less kids going into foster care. And there's a lot of great work that's happening across the country around family preservation and prevention. We need to see more kids placed with kin and family members. And we need to also recognize that when that's impossible, we need more non relative foster homes. And I think what is heroic and what's going on across the country right now is there's a. There's a very robust conversation about the effectiveness of the foster care system writ large. And there's been a lot of great work that's happening where the lion's share of nonprofits are engaged in serving families that are being impacted by neglect or poverty. And far too many kids are being removed for reasons of poverty or reasons that are perceived as neglect, that really are not child abuse. And so I'm proud of our country's work and all of the folks that listen to this that, that are doing work with families upstream. And it's not enough to say we just need more foster parents. We need to look at the system holistically and recognize that there's an ecosystem of interventions that are needed to turn this thing around.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah, no, again, thanks for your work in that. It's. I know it's an uphill battle in many ways. Now, as you look towards the future, what are some of the next steps and maybe your future goals for the contingent as you expect to expand both your impact and within and beyond foster care.

[Ben Sand]

Right now, we're just kind of leaving our first wave of growth in terms of our national expansion. As we've taken what we've done in Oregon and have replicated that in Arkansas and Tennessee, we're aspiring to hit the next wave of growth. And our board, our organization, is prepared to use some of the skills and services and products that We've developed to be able to scale nationally, and so we'd love to get to 12 states in the next three years. That's kind of our organizational goal within the organization. And I'll use this just as a plug to say what we also recognize is the contingent is a little bit out in front at the moment, because we have made the investment prior to the AI kind of revolution, if you will, to get our fundamentals really strong. And so that looks like getting the right CRM with Microsoft Dynamics and building on the power platform and getting our data in the cloud. I think where we're headed organizationally is really wanting to develop a center for AI excellence to be able to capitalize on a lot of the work that is happening, certainly through Microsoft, but through a lot of organizations, to be able to capitalize on the way that AI is going to change how we are able to communicate to people, to get more volunteers, get more foster parents, get more donors, et cetera. And so internally, some of our goals really have to do with being able to be on the leading edge in where technology is headed. And for those of you that are listening, I would just say there is a big wave coming. I think getting your fundamentals really strong in your. What I'll call your tech stack is going to be really important, and we're very aspirational about what's going to be possible here in the next three to five years.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Okay, well, this being a podcast focused on leadership, one question I did want to ask on the leadership side, what leadership principles do you find yourself focusing on the most as you lead your organization forward?

[Ben Sand]

Yeah, there's a book that is very much. There's two books, very much getting passed around our organization right now like candy. Yeah. The first is a book called Leadership on the Line, which is about adaptive leadership theory. Recognizing that, as ironic as it sounds, especially from a technology organization, a lot of these solutions that are going to be needed are going to be. What we're going to need is leaders who are thinking adaptively, thinking on their feet, moving quickly. And so we're recognizing that establishing a core commitment to innovation is going to be really important. So for those interested in adaptive leadership theory, I'd pass that around. I think the other piece is our organization is very much committed to what's called the Entrepreneurial Operating System, which comes from a book called Traction. And I think what we're finding specifically in the philanthropic space, as philanthropy is being challenged and as we are seeing a decline in giving across the country, the importance of an organization Being able to really clearly articulate a scorecard about what's working and what's not and being able to translate that work to internal staff, but also external stakeholders. And so I think for me, the biggest test of my leadership in the days ahead is going to really correlate to this idea of can you adapt at the speed of innovation and when you do, can you communicate the return on investment of what your organization is able to accomplish as investors are potentially looking for that roi and it's that particular intersection, innovation. And then what are your results? How do you know and how do you communicate those to the world? That I think is, is where the future's headed.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

I like what you encapsulated there. That's excellent. Now it's well, well said. I think it's really good for my listeners to hear whatever context they find them in with our organization. So for my listeners. Yeah. Where would you send them in terms of if they want to find out a little bit more about you? Find out more about the contingent and all the work that you're doing there?

[Ben Sand]

Yeah, certainly you can go to our website, which is www.thecontingent.org for those that are interested, if you're interested in some of our use case regarding data and technology, I recently gave a TED talk on how we're using technology that's transforming the foster care world. And so that's called harnessing the power of technology for foster care. And you can and look that up on YouTube. And if there's anything that I can do to be helpful or if you want to reach out, you can certainly reach out on our website. We can share with you a little bit more of our our journey with data and technology.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah. Well, I love again how you're utilizing data and technology to make an even bigger impact through your nonprofit. And I think that's the key for all nonprofit leaders is to really how to harness whether it be AI or just technology and data in general, because there's so many tools out there, like you said, and it's of kind. There's more and more tools coming every day. But the key is how do you use them? How do you maximize them to really further the mission of your organization? So again, thanks so much for taking time to be on the show and share your insights and appreciate all the work you're doing.

[Ben Sand]

Yeah, you got it. Thanks for having me.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Hey, friends. Well, I wanted you to know that this podcast can be found on itunes, Spotify, Amazon, Google podcasts and wherever you listen to other podcasts. I also want to encourage you to like, subscribe. Subscribe and share this podcast with others. This will actually help us get this great content out to more nonprofit leaders just like you. You can also join the nonprofit leadership Podcast community, find other resources and interviews of past guests, all on my website, nonprofit leadershippodcast.org well, thanks again for listening and until next time, keep making your world better. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox, DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business.