How to Enhance Your Nonprofit’s Marketing and Fundraising Efforts

Summary

Nonprofit Leadership Podcast Summary
Episode: How to Enhance Your Nonprofit’s Marketing and Fundraising Efforts
Host: Dr. Rob Harder
Guest: Jesse Lane
Release Date: February 17, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast, host Dr. Rob Harder welcomes back Jesse Lane, a seasoned expert in nonprofit marketing and the founder of Goodmaker U. The discussion centers around enhancing marketing and fundraising efforts for nonprofits, with a particular emphasis on email marketing and the integration of AI tools.

The Current State of Nonprofit Marketing

Jesse Lane ([04:09])
"Things are changing so fast. They've been changing rapidly. Ever since I've been in this space... AI and just, I think that, you know, we're all just kind of holding on tight, trying to, I think, cling to the principles that we know won't ever change."

Jesse highlights the dynamic nature of the marketing landscape, emphasizing the rapid advancements in technology, especially Artificial Intelligence (AI). Despite these changes, he underscores the timeless principles of relationship-building and storytelling as foundational elements that remain effective.

Importance of Email Marketing

Dr. Rob Harder ([05:03])
"Email marketing is still one of the most effective things that you can do in your nonprofit organization."

Rob reaffirms the continued relevance of email marketing, citing its effectiveness over other channels like social media and physical mail. He points out that while in-person and phone communications are valuable, email remains a scalable and cost-effective method for reaching a large donor base.

Common Mistakes in Email Marketing

Jesse Lane ([05:41])
"Often nonprofits neglect it altogether or they just don't value email because it's maybe not the newest shiny thing."

Jesse identifies two primary mistakes nonprofits make:

1. Mindset Issues: Viewing email as outdated or insignificant compared to newer platforms.
2. Fear of Spamming: Concerns about overwhelming donors with too many emails, leading to underutilization of this potent tool.

He emphasizes that with proper strategy, email can be a powerful means of engagement and fundraising.

Balancing Fundraising Emails and Content Emails

Dr. Rob Harder ([08:15])
"How often do you have a little bit more of a meeting email, and then a straight-up ask for an urgent thing going on?"

Rob probes into the strategy of balancing informative content with fundraising appeals within email campaigns.

Jesse Lane ([08:49])
"We recommend an 80/20 split where you're giving 80% value... and 20% an appeal or an invitation to take action."

Jesse advises nonprofits to allocate 80% of their email content to providing value—such as stories, updates, and educational material—and reserve 20% for direct fundraising appeals. During critical periods like year-end giving, this balance may shift to accommodate increased fundraising efforts.

Why Email Outperforms Other Channels

Jesse Lane ([12:50])
"Email is often where we see much better action, like causing people to actually pull the trigger and make the gift or respond in some way."

Jesse explains that email marketing yields higher engagement and conversion rates compared to social media. He attributes this to the more intentional mindset of recipients when checking their inboxes, as opposed to the casual browsing behavior on social platforms.

Dr. Rob Harder ([10:32])
"Study after study shows email marketing is still one of the most effective ways."

Rob reinforces this point by noting numerous studies that validate email’s effectiveness in donor communication and fundraising.

Strategies to Increase Email Engagement and Open Rates

Jesse Lane ([15:31])
"We mix it up. Send it from different from lines... some short, some long. Just variety. Keeps people paying attention."

Jesse recommends diversifying email strategies to prevent monotony:

• Vary "From" Lines: Rotate between organizational names and individual team members to create a personal touch.
• Simplify Content: Avoid clutter by focusing each email on a single message or call to action.
• Use Automation: Implement welcome series and automated workflows to engage new subscribers effectively.

Jesse Lane ([17:31])
"Turn that email into five different emails. Make every email about one thing, primarily one thing."

He advises breaking down multi-topic emails into separate, focused messages to reduce overwhelm and increase clarity for readers.

Segmenting Donor Lists

Jesse Lane ([22:13])
"Segmentation is really great strategy. Start with their capacity to give and their giving history."

Jesse underscores the importance of segmenting email lists to deliver more personalized and relevant content. Key segmentation criteria include:

• Interests and Engagement Levels: Tailor content based on donor interests and how they interact with past communications.
• Giving History: Differentiate between mid-level donors and major donors to customize fundraising appeals accordingly.

Utilizing AI in Nonprofit Marketing

Dr. Rob Harder ([24:31])
"What is the role in your mind of utilizing AI for nonprofits... how can you use AI for good?"

Rob introduces the topic of AI, seeking insights into its practical applications in nonprofit marketing.

Jesse Lane ([24:59])
"Use it in the brainstorming process, coming up with ideas... use AI to start a first draft of your emails and then you can edit within that."

Jesse advocates for leveraging AI to enhance efficiency in content creation:

• Idea Generation: Use AI to brainstorm content ideas and angles.
• Drafting Content: Employ AI to draft initial versions of emails, which can then be refined by human editors to ensure authenticity and a personal touch.
• Maintaining Human Element: Ensure that AI-generated content retains a conversational and personable tone to resonate with donors.

Personalizing Emails for Better Engagement

Jesse Lane ([28:04])
"Use their first name in the email... use a real personal, friendly tone."

Jesse emphasizes the necessity of personalization in email communications:

• Address Recipients by Name: Personalization fosters a sense of individual connection.
• Conversational Tone: Craft emails that mimic personal conversations rather than formal reports.
• Human Touch with AI: When using AI, add unique expressions and informal elements to prevent emails from feeling too mechanical or impersonal.

Launching Effective Email Marketing Campaigns on a Small Budget

Jesse Lane ([32:16])
"Set a consistent email rhythm... always be collecting emails."

For small nonprofits with limited resources, Jesse provides actionable steps:

1. Establish a Consistent Schedule: Begin with manageable frequencies, such as monthly emails, and gradually increase as capacity allows.
2. Grow the Email List: Continuously seek opportunities to add new subscribers through events, social media, and direct outreach.
3. Use Lead Magnets: Offer valuable incentives, like PDFs or exclusive content, to encourage sign-ups and enhance list growth.

Jesse Lane ([35:48])
"Start grassroots like friends, family... set milestones to build momentum."

Jesse suggests grassroots efforts as the foundation for expanding email lists:

• Leverage Personal Networks: Begin by engaging friends, family, and existing supporters.
• Engage at Events: Collect email addresses during events and community gatherings.
• Utilize Social Media: Implement targeted ads and influencer partnerships to reach broader audiences.

Formatting and Design for Enhanced Engagement

Jesse Lane ([38:18])
"Keep your header graphic... get to that hook or the headline right out of the gate."

Jesse offers tips on email design to maximize reader engagement:

• Minimalist Design: Limit the use of large graphics and focus on clear, concise content.
• Clear Hierarchy: Ensure that the primary message or call to action is immediately visible without excessive scrolling.
• Responsive Design: Optimize emails for mobile devices, considering that a significant majority of emails are read on smartphones.
• Focused Calls to Action: Maintain a single, clear call to action per email to guide donors effectively.

Jesse Lane ([41:07])
"How would you email your friend? It's really easier to do and it works better."

He advocates for a more casual and personal approach, akin to communicating with a friend, to foster better connection and response rates.

Conclusion

Jesse Lane ([43:00])
"We have a team of creatives that are world-class nonprofit fundraising experts and marketing experts that will just do it for you if you don't have the time."

Jesse concludes by promoting Goodmaker U and Branches Mission Lab, offering training programs and marketing services tailored to nonprofits’ needs.

Dr. Rob Harder ([43:19])
"...keep making your world better."

Rob wraps up the episode by encouraging listeners to subscribe, share, and engage with the podcast community for continued learning and support in their nonprofit leadership journeys.

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Key Takeaways

1. Email Marketing Remains Vital: Despite evolving digital landscapes, email continues to be a powerful tool for donor engagement and fundraising.
2. Strategic Content Balance: Utilize an 80/20 split between valuable content and fundraising appeals to maintain donor interest and drive actions.
3. Segmentation Enhances Relevance: Tailoring emails based on donor data increases engagement and conversion rates.
4. AI as a Support Tool: Incorporate AI for efficiency in content creation while maintaining a personal and authentic touch.
5. Personalization is Crucial: Personalized and conversational emails foster stronger connections with donors.
6. Consistent and Growing Email List: Establish a regular emailing schedule and continuously expand the email list through grassroots efforts and lead magnets.
7. Effective Design Practices: Prioritize clarity, mobile optimization, and focused calls to action in email design to maximize engagement.

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Notable Quotes

• Jesse Lane ([08:49]): "We recommend an 80/20 split where you're giving 80% value... and 20% an appeal or an invitation to take action."
• Jesse Lane ([12:50]): "Email is often where we see much better action, like causing people to actually pull the trigger and make the gift or respond in some way."
• Jesse Lane ([15:31]): "Send it from different from lines... some short, some long. Just variety. Keeps people paying attention."
• Jesse Lane ([28:04]): "Use their first name in the email... use a real personal, friendly tone."
• Jesse Lane ([38:18]): "Keep your header graphic... get to that hook or the headline right out of the gate."

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This comprehensive summary encapsulates the essential insights and strategies discussed in the podcast, providing nonprofit leaders with actionable advice to enhance their marketing and fundraising efforts through effective email campaigns and the strategic use of AI.

Transcript

[Dr. Rob Harder]

This is Dr. Rob Harder with the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast, Making youg World Better. What does it take to be an effective nonprofit leader today? What are the biggest challenges? What are the biggest obstacles? How should nonprofits fundraise in an economy that is constantly changing? All these reasons combined led me to start this show. And it's my hope that through this series, people can learn not only what it takes to be an effective nonprofit organization, but to hear from effective leaders who, who are successfully making a positive impact in their communities. We hope you enjoy the show as together we hear how they are making their world better. Hello everybody, and welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. So today I want to kick off this particular episode with letting you know that I'm going to give a gift to the first three people that sign up for my monthly email update. And all you have to do, you can go to my website. You can go to two different places, actually go to robharter.com and you can subscribe there. Or you can also go to the nonprofit Leadership Podcast page and just put subscribe, which is at the top right hand corner. Subscribe and put your email. So either website robharder.com or a nonprofit leadershippodcast.com, it'll get you to the same spot when you just click on subscribe and put your email in there. And the first three people that sign up, I'm going to have a gift I'll send to you. And the reason I'm doing that is because today's topic is all about email marketing. Now you may say, well, email marketing, that's been around forever and it's true, it has. It's not necessarily new and fancy and shiny. However, study after study has shown that one of the most effective ways that you can communicate to your donors is through email marketing. I mean, the best way, of course, is a one to one in person communication with your donors. A sit down, you know, having coffee, having lunch, you know, eyeball to eyeball, talking to one of your donors. And then also phones, calling somebody on the phone is a very effective way. The problem now with phones though, as you know, if you don't have the right number and someone calls through and you don't recognize the number, guess what, you don't answer the phone. So it's more and more difficult, I found, to reach people on their phone unless you're very, very close to them, right, because they won't pick it up. So texting is not also an option. But again, a lot of people don't respond to text in the Same way they do to email, particularly when you're giving a call to action. And so when you throw in social media, physical mail, you know, snail mail marketing, one of the most effective ways still to this day is email marketing. And that's the whole topic of our conversation today. And I've got Jesse Lane back on the. He was on the show about six years ago, and he was doing great work then, and he started his own company that really helps nonprofits with marketing, specifically called Goodmaker U. And so Jesse's going to share about this and why they found email to be so effective and how to make sure you can continue to make your email engagement rate and response rate really, really high. And then, of course, we're going to have to talk about AI and the role of AI in marketing and AI in general to use for your nonprofit. So a lot of good things that are really practical that'll help you. As always, than. Thanks for tuning in. Now onto the show. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox. DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business. Welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. I've got a guest back on the show. Jesse was on the show six years ago, if you can believe it. I've been doing this show for almost eight years now. So, Jesse, welcome back.

[Jesse Lane]

Thank you. Yeah. Excited to be here again. It's gonna be fun.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

I know. It's just fun. And we were talking before we hit record. It's fun to see people that are still in the space, still working hard in the nonprofit space to help people really, you know, make their missions go. And we're gonna narrow our focus today because there's so many things we could talk about when it comes to the nonprofit leadership space. But we're gonna talk about marketing. And so maybe to kick things off, Jesse, give us a sense from your perspective. Give us the state of marketing right now when it comes to nonprofits, because there's a lot. And we're gonna, of course, narrow a bit of our focus today. Start with that. Give us your sense of how things are going, what you're learning in the marketing space.

[Jesse Lane]

Yeah, well, it's really hard to sum it up because it's like the wild, wild West. Things are changing so fast. They've been changing rapidly.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lane]

Ever since I've been in this space. Right. But it is faster than ever with AI and just, I think that, you know, we're all just kind of holding on tight, trying to, I think, cling to the principles that we know won't ever change. You know, just that relationships matter and, you know, storytelling these things, because in a world where the tech is constantly changing, how we communicate, how we even produce content, all of that is constantly evolving faster than we can keep up with. It's one of those things that you have to kind of lean back on the principles that, you know, are true and are human and aren't changing. So I would say, you know, that's been my advice in this last couple of years as we've seen, you know, AI come onto the scene and we've seen marketing really change a lot. And I think, yeah, I mean, there's a lot I could say about that, but that would be my quick summary.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah, no, there's definitely an. And yeah, I've had so many guests on the show recently talking about AI and the use of AI, and I found that a lot of nonprofits that do utilize AI, it's in the marketing space that's a big area where they find great benefit because of the efficiency and the speed by which AI can do a lot of things. So let's maybe go into, though, specifically about the marketing and when it comes to email marketing, because I've had people also talk about marketing. Email marketing is still one of the most effective things you can do in your nonprofit organization. So maybe let's start about that. What, what's some of the biggest mistakes that nonprofits make when it comes to email marketing? Let's start there.

[Jesse Lane]

Yeah, I'm glad you asked that. We, you know, we see that oftentimes it just starts with the, the wrong mindset around email. Right. Often nonprofits neglect it altogether or they just don't value email because it's maybe not the newest shiny thing. You know, email's been around a while. Or, you know, they don't love opening their inbox because they get so many emails. And so they use that to decide, oh, we're not going to really think about email or worry about email too much, which is a huge mistake because study after study, even recent studies in 2024, are saying that email is still a very effective digital fundraising tool and engagement tool. So it works. And I think so the mindset at first, just if you're one of those people that are just kind of writing it off because you're not a big fan of email. Well, you know, maybe look at some of the data and try, you know, reconsider email as a really key strategy in the digital fundraising and marketing space. And then also just we see this and, and it comes from a good heart, but a Lot of non profits, they don't want to be a spammer, you know.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah, exactly.

[Jesse Lane]

So we talk, we talk a lot about good makers. I know that you've had some conversations around the name nonprofit and brand non profit, which I love that conversation. Well, for years now we've been calling nonprofit leaders good makers. And we built our whole brand good maker U around that because it speaks identity into a nonprofit leader. And so we have, we have our students often like say, to say out loud, I am not a spammer. I am a good maker.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

I like that.

[Jesse Lane]

And it's like you need to remember that you're not bugging people, annoying people. If they're on your email list, they've given you permission, they want to hear from you and you're out there changing the world. You're like, you're a good guy, you're not a spammer. And you should not hesitate to communicate and speak into and show up in the inbox because everyone else is. You better believe all of the for profit businesses out there are competing for that space. So you might as well join with the good work you're doing and jump into that. So that mindset of like being afraid to bother people or afraid to send too much often keeps people under communicating and in email and not really valuing it fully for what it could be. So those are a couple of the mistakes. There's other more practical things I can get into, but those, you know, that starts that with that mindset and just helping people see email has a place today and it's really can be an effective way to get results and motivate people to take action.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Absolutely. Well, as we get to the specifics now, how do you strike a balance between on the one hand having a straight up fundraising email with another email that maybe has more content that provides more information for donors? Where do you strike that balance? How often do you have a little bit more of a meeting email, if you will, and then a straight up ask for an urgent thing going on. I know it's year end giving, by the time this airs, it'll be year end giving time for nonprofits. And so there's a, often an urgency you want to create with your emails when you're asking for money. But tell us what you found when it comes to finding that balance with your emails.

[Jesse Lane]

Yeah, I mean that's a great question. And we are going to Recommend like an 80, 20%, 8020 split where you're giving 80% value. You know, just know your audience, know what they want from your Email what they actually are excited to open and read and see. So that's probably storytelling, maybe educational content serving your audience, bringing value to the inbox. That 80% of the time. Now that doesn't mean those don't have a call to action, but it's not all about that. You know, maybe the call to action is to watch a video or to, you know, go follow you on social media or read the full story on the website. But there's another 20% where you are not shy about an appeal or an invitation to take action, to give, to volunteer. And so in both cases there's value. You're bringing value even with that invitation. You're inviting them into a bigger story and you shouldn't shy away from that. And so we kind of recommend an 8020 split. And of course during an end of year season like that, that flips a lot of those emails are going to like 80% of your December emails should probably be with a strong call to action worked in. And that doesn't mean you don't have stories or you're sharing about the impact, but you are making a clear call to action because people are ready to give it's time and you want to be on the top of their mind when it comes to the end of your gift. And so yeah, that's, that's kind of what we'd recommend. Obviously during a campaign of any kind, you know, you're going to ramp up that communication and those asks. But for the, you know, for the most part throughout the year, bring value, earn the right to be to, to for people to keep opening and keep reading those emails so that when the fundraising campaign comes around, they're paying attention, they're engaged and they're ready to respond.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah, they're not hitting delete on your email as it comes to their inbox.

[Jesse Lane]

That's right.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Well, and we've already mentioned this earlier but just for my listeners, again just to soak this in, like you said, email seems so like yesterday, you know, like everyone's an email. It's so common. Maybe you are tired of going on getting all these emails in your own inbox. However you mentioned it, but I'll just highlight it again. Study after study does show email marketing still one of the most effective ways that you can communicate to your donors, to your community more than social media often. Certainly snail mail. You know, physical mail email is still one of the best ways. Now the only better way would be of course a one on one in person conversation with a donor. That's the Best, of course, but that can be really difficult, particularly as your organization gets bigger and you start having thousands of donors supporting you. That's almost impossible, no matter how big of a development team you have. So talk a little bit more about why that's so effective, why it's come through that study after study shows that email marketing is so important. What have you found as you dug into the data a bit more? Why is this working so well? Why is this the best form of communication? Overall?

[Jesse Lane]

You're 100% right, Rob. It's, it's, there's other than a face to face conversation which you have limited time, right? So you can only do so many of those, you know, you can only call so many, you can only meet with so many donors. So email scales, right? And so I think the two things I would say is one, it's low cost, it's a higher ROI because the cost cost is low. And so as you grow your email list, as you're effective in your communication, your engagement rate is high, you've got people paying attention, you can reach a lot of people at a low cost. It does take time, but there isn't a huge expense there. You also own that list. You're not having to worry about the algorithm changes, right? Or social media trends and what comes and goes. That's your list. And you can communicate with those people that have subscribed. And so those are some big factors. The other one I would say, and this really helps differentiate social media and email and which I believe social media can be great for engagement or storytelling or you know, staying on, you know, having fun and expressing your personality. But email is often where we see much better action, like causing people to actually pull the trigger and make the gift or respond in some way. In social media, we just don't see the same conversion rates to action.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Right.

[Jesse Lane]

I believe it's because we're in a different head space when we're in social media than when we're in email. Like when you're in social media, you know, wanting to kick back and just not think about anything, just swipe through, scroll through different posts and just kind of take a brain break, right? Nothing too serious. Sometimes it's too serious for me. I just, you know, I don't want to see this or that. But it's like social media is not a time where we're really in business mode. I would say we're not really taking action as often versus when, think about this, when we are doing business, we're often in our inboxes or in our email. So that could be like we're booking an appointment and we're getting a confirmation email, we're getting a receipt. You know, we're often pulling out our credit card. There's a reason that people in their inbox are in the mode and ready to like take action, get serious, maybe click over. Maybe they're spending more time on a desktop and it's even easier for them to go through and make that gift. So that's one of my hypothesis of why we see this. But regardless of why, the fact is research study after research study shows that there's a greater ROI and response rate in email than compared to social media at least. And so we see that too. I mean, we, client after client, we get incredible results through our email campaigns where social has a part to play, but it's not usually driving the same type of fundraising results.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah, when you talked about that, it reminds me, I was listening to someone who's in the space. Maybe people know her and she's very much in the nonprofit marketing space and has her own company. She was just talking about how when she decided to get off of Twitter now X, she had about 9,000 followers at the time. And when she closed her account and moved, she couldn't take them with her. You know, those were not hers, so to speak. They were still on the platform. Right. So going back to one of the things I thought was so important, you said you own that email list. That's your list and so it's yours. It goes with you wherever you go. You have that list and I think that's really powerful. But number two, I think you were so right. You nailed it with converting people to reading to action, that social media just doesn't do that. I've read the same studies that people, you're right, they're just scrolling. They're kind of in this mode of taking a break. They're not looking to take a step, per se. Whereas an email, you're much better chance they're going to read it and say, oh, I am going to click on that. Oh, okay, maybe I will give. This is great. I love the cause, love the video that you just sent or whatever. So think for my listeners, again, what you want with your emails, right? Is that turn to action. You want people to read it and actually do something and not just be wowed by the great email. So with that in mind, how can nonprofits increase their email engagement and increase their open rates?

[Jesse Lane]

Great question. We have like a whole YouTube video series on this. But I'll just keep it short and say this. We mix it up. Like, people tend to get in these ruts where every email sounds the same, looks the same, and we as consumers, as donors, we start to just file those emails away. Like we see them, we just kind of know. We think we know what they're going to be. And so there's no need to really open or read it because it's kind of like same old, same old. Right. And so that's one thing. Just mix up. Send it from different from lines. You know, it doesn't always have to be from your organizational name or even your executive director or CEO. Like, send it from different people at the team with a different design format, different type of subject line, some short, some long. Just variety. Keeps people paying attention. Right. And I'm all for consistency, too. And there's. There's a place for that, that. But every once in a while, try mixing it up and see how that affects your engagement rates. And then I would also say just simplify. One of the common mistakes we see is organizations, you know, doing a newsletter, right? Like a monthly newsletter where they put everything in there. Like the. It's like the junk drawer for email, right? It's like everything just goes in there. Well, let's tell them about this and this and yeah, some volunteer opportunities. We should tell them about this upcoming event and, oh, yeah, fundraising campaign and, oh, we've got some jobs. We should put that in there, Right?

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Exactly.

[Jesse Lane]

Open the email. And it's just like all these information, it's overwhelming for people. And so it's really. They don't know what you want them to do, so they're overwhelmed. They don't really have time to probably read all of that or. And it's just you're making them think and work too hard.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Right.

[Jesse Lane]

So I would say turn that. If you've got like five things in that email, turn that email into five different emails. Right? Break it up into that. And make every email about one thing, primarily one thing. You know, it should be really obvious what the email's about and what you want them to do next. Next. And if it's not, good luck getting them to actually click or take an action.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Right?

[Jesse Lane]

And so just simplify, which actually makes your job easier because you can just focus your email on that one thing and really, you know, drive action through that. Yeah. So those are a couple thoughts. I would also say, you know, use automation. So many nonprofits aren't taking advantage of that. And so, for instance, use a new subscriber welcome series to help welcome people with a great first few emails. So they know know that. Wow, the emails I get from this nonprofit are awesome. I want to keep opening them, you know, share your best stories, your best content and really make a good first impression. You're setting them up to say, okay, when I get an email from them, I'm going to open it because it's going to be great content and you can automate that and set it on repeat to really give them a great experience and just a freebie out there on our website. If you go to goodmakeru.com welcome we've got a kit or like a guide that can show you the eight emails that we'd recommend including in that. But yeah, it's just super important because you're again, you're setting that first impression and they're kind of deciding how they're going to follow your emails. Are they going to delete them or archive them or are they actually going to take a moment and open them? And those first few emails are critical. And so if you want to automate those to be a great experience, build that welcome series and make it really some of your best content.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

We'll be right back. Are you looking for an easy and effective way to boost your nonprofit's donations? Well, look no further than Donorbox, the online fundraising platform that streamlines your fundraising efforts, maximizes donations, and simplifies giving for your supporters. With Donorbox, you can create beautiful donation forms, accept digital wallet payments, track donations, and send auto receipts. And the best part? There are no setup or monthly fees and no long term contracts required. So what are you waiting for? Visit donorbox.org today to get started. That is www.donorbox.org hey friends, thanks so much for listening to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. Many of you know that I provide leadership and life coaching. With my 30 years of nonprofit experience, I know firsthand how hard leaders like you work. I also know how important it is to have someone you can call on and to get help with the barriers and leadership challenges you will face. Both professional I really want to help people thrive and become all they were meant to become by providing coaching and consulting services. And it's been so much fun working as a coach, working with clients who are leaders just like you, looking to grow personally and professionally. What you may not know is that I also provide consulting services. Currently, in fact, I'm working with an organization to help them create a clear strategy and plan to raise $3.5 million to expand their organization. So perhaps you're an executive director and you sense your organization has hit a lid on growth and you need a strategy as to how you can scale your nonprofit. Or perhaps the culture you set out to create is not the culture you have currently and it's impacting your staff retention. Or maybe you're facing a major resource challenge and you don't know what to do. That's where I can help. I come alongside leaders and organizations to create strategies to grow their organizations and maximize their impact. If your nonprofit needs help with fundraising strategy or operational effectiveness, reach out today. You can simply email me@rob robharder.com you can go to my website, robharder.com or you can call me 435-776-5173. I would be happy to provide a free sample coaching session or a consult to see how I can best be of help to you and your organization. Well, thanks again for listening. Now back to the show. I love that idea of the automation piece to it. I think there's so many that's a good use of AI, number one, but also just a real practical way of saving a lot of time and energy and effort and really impressing people right off the bat. So well said on that. Now we're going to get to AI in just a second. But before we do that thing, let's talk about segmenting donor lists, tailoring emails for specific groups or specific donors. I know a lot of people do that. And again, as you get larger and maybe as you more programs in your nonprofit, you're going to do that more. And speaking of AI, I know a lot of people utilize AI for this exact purpose because it speeds up the process, makes it super efficient. But let's just start maybe with a practical way of how and why should you do that. And if a nonprofit's listening like, okay, maybe I should segment these emails, emails, what are the first steps they should take to, to do that and to do it well and really effectively.

[Jesse Lane]

Yeah. I mean, so the why behind it is it's going to give someone an email that's more relevant. I mean, you're able to customize and tailor the content to something about that list, that segment that is going to speak to them at another level. So you're able to make it more personal, more relevant for them based on a lot of different factors in the data that you have. And so that's going to just make your emails really pop and stand in the inbox because you're speaking to them in a, in a way that maybe a lot of others aren't and it feels, it feels highly relevant and that's going to grab their attention and make them more likely to engage and take action. So yeah, segmentation is really great strategy. Now to your next question. Where do you start? If you're starting to segment, I would say, you know, look at the data that you have on your audience, you know, and use and look at if you note their interests, maybe where they, how they joined your list if it was a certain event or a campaign. You can also segment on giving level. How much have they given, what's their capacity to give? And a lot of tools using AI or donor data, they're going to be able to actually kind of give you a score either like an engagement score based on how, how they've engaged in the past or potentially a wealth score or a capacity to give score and all of those. If you have access to that in your tools. That's a great way to segment your list. I would just encourage you to try it out, try those segments out, test some things and just see, you know, one just basic example is, you know, we're working on it with a client on the end of your campaign and you know, we've got one segment where the giving handles, which is what we call the dollar amounts that we're suggesting to people for the, you know, we have two different segments. One, they're getting larger numbers to be invited to give based on their giving history. And these are kind of mid level donors. And then we've got another email that's pretty similar but the dollar amounts are different. And that's going to go to anybody that's giving at the broad based level. And then you know, major donors are going to get a personal INV and personal custom in email. So we've got really three segments. They're all getting similar message with a different call to action based on their capacity to give. So it's a pretty simple way but that's a great place to start is just segmenting based on their capacity to give and their giving history.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Now very good information, no, very helpful. Okay, let's dive into AI now again we've talked quite a bit about this with different guests on the show. This is an area I do think people start utilizing AI as I mentioned before with marketing, fundraising, things like that, things that are tasks that can be just sped up through AI. What is the role though? We'll back up a little bit. What's the role in your mind of utilizing AI for nonprofits, especially when it comes to marketing, but in general like how can you use AI for good? For a nonprofit organization?

[Jesse Lane]

Yeah, well, that's a huge question, right? I mean, there's a long list of things, but I would just to zero in on marketing and I would say email and content creation. I would say, you know, train. Train the AI that you're working with on your voice and on your target audience. And over time you're able, able to really hone in on a really powerful, accurate representation of you. But you know, still, I would say be make sure that you're. That it feels like a human touch and you're adding that layer of a human to everything you create. You know, and these days at least, you can usually still tell the difference. And it depends on the tools you're using and how well the prompt is architected. Right. But I would say that my recommendation is, is use it in the brainstorming process, you know, coming up with ideas. Sometimes that can take a while, you know, brainstorming all these content ideas or different angles, but with AI, they can, you know, just give you a list of ideas just to get you started. There may be some really bad ones on there, but you could get some good ideas. And then. Yeah, and then if you, you want, you can use AI to start a first draft of your emails and then you can edit within that. I've been using Canvas Canvas, which is a new version of Chat GPT. You can edit it right there in Chat GPT to tweak it. And it makes it really, really easy to kind of edit and refine and work back and forth with the AI. And it's just a really powerful tool. So I would encourage everybody to just be experimenting and learning because it is changing rapidly. But, you know, there's a lot of things to consider with AI. You know, I would recommend just thinking about the policies at your organization and making sure that you're thinking through the implications of using it, but also that you're just not left behind, afraid to engage completely. And so with marketing, it's a great place to get ideation, get first drafts or, you know, if you write something and you're like, man, I know this is too long. Ask AI to help you shorten it, you know, and tighten it up. And that's usually going to be pretty easy, which is hard for a human. Easy, easy often for AI, Right?

[Dr. Rob Harder]

No feelings with AI, they just like cut it, it's trim it. Yeah, well, good. I like that. And whether you use AI or not, one of the key things with email, you already kind of alluded to it is making sure it's personal. And I think you said, you know, train it in the voice of your nonprofit or your executive director, whoever's writing the email. You want it to truly be a real voice. Right. Where people read it feels like it's a personal email right to them. Talk a bit more about how to do that. Well, you touched on it a little bit, but I do think this get more challenging, particularly as you get a larger and larger list to do that well consistently, where people don't think, oh, this is just a, you know, automated email. It's really obvious the way it came through that it really wasn't from the executive director or CEO of the organization. So how do you do that? Well, and then if, say you do use AI sounds like that it really is a training process with your AI, but maybe speak to that.

[Jesse Lane]

Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah. I would say to make your emails feel personal, which is a critical, you know, principle in, in any marketing. But I would say just some, some simple things to get you started with. You know, using their first name in the email is, is going to stand out. So hopefully you're collecting first names. I would. That's like to me, it's the very next thing after email. I'm always going to be collecting first names because it allows you personalize your communication and then just using a real personal, friendly tone. It seems that nonprofits often want to communicate real formally or, you know, they know in their emails to the. And it's as if they're writing for a board report or a foundation, an application. And it's like, well, people don't want to read that. They want it to feel more conversational. Right. The way you're talking. And if you're using AI, you have to kind of guide it to do that because often AI is going to start with a more formal tone as well. So you really have to kind of tell it to write that way and then send it from a person, not a brand, and make sure that there's, you know, those human pieces that are maybe, you know, you're. Everything's not so polished and perfect. And that's something you definitely have to be careful with. With AI, it's. It's almost too good. Like everything feels so neat and perfect and so often like what I'll do is come in and after I'm working with an AI like email or copy, I'm going to come in and add in some, some expressions that like I would write or this person would write some real short sentences or you know, just the right emoji or like, you know, some different formatting that's just going to kind of be that human layer on top of it to help, you know, connect with people. And I think also one of the best things you can do, we have a, an email kind of framework or template that we recommend that we call it the best email ever. And that's just because our clients just keep calling it that. They were like, this was the best email I've ever sent. And, and it's just really simple. You strip it down, take off all the logos, all the images, everything, all the formatting, no background colors, nothing and just write that text only email and it outperforms all of those beautiful HTML designed templates that you have. And we actually have a step by step guide for this as well if you want to download it. It's a Goodmaker U. Yeah, yeah, it's, you can download [e-mail] best but if you go through that, you'll see we're like, this is what your friends do when they write you an email, right?

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Good point.

[Jesse Lane]

They're just gonna, they're not gonna like put graphics and design, they're just gonna write you an email and send it. They're more casual, they're more short, shorter emails. And often if you write your email similar to like you would to a friend or co worker, people are gonna like, it's gonna go into a different file in their brain and even if they know, you know, it was sent to the masses, if they're going to stop and engage with it and read it because it's going to stand out from all the other emails, it's actually a lot easier to do and it works better. So we recommend mixing this in maybe like, you know, 25 to 30% of the time with your emails. Sending an email like this text only from a person stripped down. And we get, our clients get amazing results when they do this. They're always cool at the response and so yeah, I would recommend people try it out and, and then just email me and let me know how it goes because it's always fun to get those stories in.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

That is so fascinating. You know, you're one of the first ones that have mentioned that, but it makes sense. It's like, how would you email your friend? Yeah, it's, you don't add all this great graphics behind it and put a bunch of pictures and just respond. Right. And it's very personal, it's casual. Really good mindset. I think that's an interesting way to Go about it. I like that. Okay, so yeah, it works. Yeah, yeah. Obviously you've seen the results. That actually does work. That's awesome. Okay, so small nonprofits that are just starting out with email marketing, they may have small budget. What's the best bang for their buck, so to speak, when it comes to launching a really effective email marketing campaign for their organization, where would they start?

[Jesse Lane]

Yeah, well, there's two things I would recommend if they're just getting started. One is just set a consistent email rhythm that you can keep. You know, don't, don't try to be, send daily emails. It's just not going to happen. Right. And if you have hardly any subscribers, then it's not worth your time to send, send that many emails. And so, you know, probably start with once a month and then build up to every other week. And eventually we love to recommend weekly emails, but, you know, when you only have 20 subscribers, it's. It's really probably not worth your time to send a weekly email. So that would be my first thing is set that rhythm and build a habit, build a process, and sometimes that takes a while, but build that habit and that process in your team of the content creation and just getting comfortable hitting send and hitting send and hitting sending consistently. And sometimes that's a new routine for people and they've been used to sending emails, you know, never, or like once every, you know, three or four months. And it's, you know, very sporadic. And so it takes a little bit of work to create that new habit, but it's really valuable over time. And then the next thing I would say is if you're just starting out, you want to build your list as soon as possible, as quickly as possible, because you know you're going to be doing that work every week or every month to get the email out. You might as well have more people receiving it. And so I would say just take the mindset, mindset of always be collecting emails. You know, in every opportunity you can be growing your email list, set that in your scorecard for the year and set goals for monthly growth on your email list. Be asking your friends and every event, every volunteer, everybody, should be added to your email list, added to your email list, added to your email list. Because as you scale that email list over time, that is an asset that's growing and growing, and it doesn't cost you anything. You're going to be sending those emails anyway, and you just want to get that list as large as possible. So just be looking, looking for every opportunity. And like I Said events, you know, volunteer opportunities, donors, all of those are great people to start adding to your email list as you get the permission and have giveaways and promote it on social media and just be always looking for an opportunity. And then the last thing I would say is a way to like supercharge that growth is to offer what we call a lead magnet, which is just a really valuable reason to join your email list. So you see it all the time, you know, download this PDF or get this kit. I mean we've got lead magnets that I'm sharing right now on, you know, podcast. It's just a great way to offer something valuable in exchange for someone to join your email list and it gives them a taste of the kind of great value that you can bring. So for a nonprofit, it could be a fun quiz or an educational PDF or you know, something that over and above just like getting updates, right? And often that's what I see on the website. They're like, sign up for our email list to get updates. And it's like, well, I'm not super excited about getting updates, but if you're going to give me something like a free chapter of a book or a, you know, PDF or something, okay, maybe, maybe I'm more excited to join your email list at that point. And so that kind of thing is going to increase your conversion rate and get more people joining your email list faster.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Let's drill down that a little bit more. I think you're already giving some good ideas. But yeah, if you're a small non profit and you're trying to just gather names at the very beginning, what are some of those ways to do it? Is it seminars? Is it. You mentioned social media, maybe talk about a few more ways just to gather them in the first place. And then like I said, then you can maximize those that list as you start building it. But what's the very beginning building blocks of somebody who's really doesn't have many people outside of their immediate team?

[Jesse Lane]

Yeah, well, I would say, I mean it's kind of sounds funny but start grassroots like friends, family, you know, like staff, former staff, volunteers. Like I mean, mean if you, you know, set yourself a milestone, if you've got 0 subscribers, you know, be like, I'm going to get to that 50 subscribers as soon, you know, and I'm just anybody and everybody, you know, and that'll get you some momentum and like give you a little bit of like, okay, these emails actually are being read and people are seeing them and it's a Good place to start. Right. And then, and some practice runs with, you know, the friendly people that already love you and they're not going to unsubscribe because, you know, they're your mom, you know.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Exactly. Always good.

[Jesse Lane]

That's, yeah, that's a good place to start. And then I would say, yeah, go into any opportunity where you're reaching an audience. So whether that's an event or if you're setting up a booth at a farmer's market, give, give something away in exchange for that email address. So, you know, have a fun giveaway where, you know, you're. Everybody that joins the email list is going to be entered to win this gift basket or this free iPad or, you know, you've seen all of that. There's a, that's a smart strategy because people are like, sure, I'll join, join. And then you're growing your list. One person gets a freebie and the rest just join your list. And then you got a chance now to earn their keep and keep them on by giving great content and delivering valuable emails. So I would say look for those opportunities and then you can use social media ads or influencers to really reach larger audiences. So that's kind of that next layer. And when we're looking to grow our clients email lists by tens of thousands, thousands, we're going to be running, you know, ad campaigns, we're going to be partnering with influencers that are relevant to their, you know, to their cause. And we're going to be, you know, still using lead magnets, but promoting it to tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people through those channels and growing the list a lot faster that way. But I would say start small, grassroots, get those people in your circles and then as you kind of get some momentum, then maybe look to the, to the bigger opportunities out there.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Okay. No, very helpful. Okay, so you already talked about having that stripped down email where it's literally just like a friend to a friend email with no frills, no images. So we got that. That's really good. I think that's a great, you know, takeaway for my listeners. But let's get back to those emails that you do want to design. You want to have a good format, you want to have something that grabs their attention. Maybe that could be one of the last questions I ask is what are some of the secrets for formatting and design improvements in order to get again, better email engagement at the end of the day?

[Jesse Lane]

Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I definitely say start with that text only email. You'll be shocked at how well that'll work. But then if in those designed emails, I would say, you know, keep your, A couple of quick things just real practical. Keep your header graphic. You're going to have like a banner or a logo. Don't make it too tall. You don't want people to have to scroll to read any part of your email. Right. So some people will design this beautiful graphic and it'll basically, basically be all that you see when you open the email. So then that's forcing people to scroll to actually see what's in the email. And that's a little too much friction. Right. And for some people. So you want to kind of get stuff above the fold, if you will, and make it so that they're seeing kind of the hook or the headline right out of the gate. And it's not to say you can't have a header graphic, but get to that point as soon as possible. And I would say some, some people clutter up the header with things like it's pretty common in these templates to see, like view this email in your browser and you know, forward this to a friend and follow us on social media. And I'm like, none of those things are the priority. But yet that's the first thing people see.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lane]

So I would bury all that at the bottom or get rid of it all together and just think about like, what do you want people to see first and foremost and when they open that email? Because people are moving fast. I think on average they spend about five seconds with each email that they open. So you don't have much time. You got to get people to like, get hooked with a great, you know, a great headline or something that grabs their attention. And so yeah, as far as formatting, I would say I like one column email. Something that's going to be responsive and look good in mobile and, and on a desktop. Because more people are probably going to read your email on their phones.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah.

[Jesse Lane]

Than they will on a computer. You know, it's probably 60 to 70% on phones, so if not higher.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yep.

[Jesse Lane]

You've got to make sure every email looks great on your phone and if you start designing graphics, that they may look good on a computer, but then on a phone you can't read it, it's too small. And so be sure you're designing for mobile and just something that looks great on both. And then I would say always try to keep your calls to action focused. Like I said earlier, you don't want to have four or five different calls to Action. I would say one call to action is ideal deal. That doesn't mean it's only one link. It could be several links all going to the same place. Right. So whether those are hyperlinks or buttons, you know you want them, you want to reinforce throughout the email. This is the next step.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Right.

[Jesse Lane]

This is, you know, this thing, this one thing is the next step that you should take and kind of reinforce that throughout the email versus like saying you could go read this thing. Oh, you could go watch this right. Video or you could go follow us here and then they're pulled all different places and so you don't want that.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Yeah, no. Well said. I know. I think something I ran across when I was doing my marketing was something like now about 75% of people read their emails on their phone. And so the whole push for mobile friendly emails, so critical. And I just, you know, anecdotally most of our folks that get our emails at the nonprofit I lead, absolutely. They get on their phone first. Now if they're interested, they'll look online, you know, sorry. They go to their computer and then they may get more information but if it's not the same and doesn't look sharp on their phone, they're not even going to, they're just going to delete it on their phone, it'll delete it on their email, you know, on their computer. So really well said. I think that's right on. Well, such a fun conversation. I knew this we'd cover a lot of ground for my listeners who want to learn a little bit more about you. Learn more about Good Maker U as well as the Mission Lab or the branches. Mission. Mission Lab. Where would you send them? How can they connect with you and learn more about, about your organization?

[Jesse Lane]

Sure. Yeah. So goodmakeryou.com we do all kinds of training cohorts virtual across the country where we're, we have a program called the Fundraising Masterclass where it's a 60 day class where we're taking people through. Often people are seeing their fundraising campaigns go like grow by 7 to 10 times like on average. That's what we're seeing. So if you've got a campaign coming up, maybe consider joining in with us. We also have like you mentioned branches Mission Lab, that's our creative and marketing agency. So if you just need some help, maybe a rebrand or someone to write the emails for you because it's, you're overwhelmed by all of this, we'll do it for you, you know.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Okay.

[Jesse Lane]

And that's our agency team. So we have a team of creatives that are world class nonprofit fundraising experts and marketing experts that will just do it for you if you don't have the time. So we'll either train you with Goodmaker you@goodmaker u.com or we'll do the work for you. And you can find out [e-mail] about our agency. So, yeah, we'd love to connect and, and help out in any way we can.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

That's awesome. Well, Jesse, again, great to have you on the show again. It's been a long time and thanks for all you're doing for the nonprofit sector.

[Jesse Lane]

Absolutely. I love serving good makers because they're out there serving the world and making, you know, our community stronger. So thanks for all that you're doing, Rob, and it's just really fun to reconnect. I appreciate it.

[Dr. Rob Harder]

Hey, friends. Well, I wanted you to know that this podcast can be found on itunes, Spotify, Amazon, Google Podcast, and wherever you listen to other podcasts. I also want to encourage you to, like, subscribe and share this podcast with others. This will actually help us get this great content out to more nonprofit leaders just like you. You can also join the nonprofit leadership podcast community, find other resources and interviews of past guests, all on my website, nonprofitleadershippodcast.org well, thanks again for listening and until, until next time, keep making your world better. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox. DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business.