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Nonprofit Leadership Podcast
Leading a Multigenerational Organization: Strategies for Success Across Five Generations
00:31:22
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- [00:02]
Dr. Rob Harder
This is Dr. Rob Harder with the Nonprofit Leadership podcast, Making youg World Better. What does it take to be an effective nonprofit leader today? What are the biggest challenges? What are the biggest obstacles? How should nonprofits fundraise in an economy that is constantly changing? All these reasons combined led me to start this show. And it's my hope that through this series, people can learn not only what it takes to be an effective nonprofit organization, but to hear from effective leaders who who are successfully making a positive impact in their communities. We hope you enjoy the show as together we hear how they are making their world better. Welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. So glad you're here today. Thanks for tuning in. You know, this is a conversation I'm having today that is really interesting in that I don't know about you, but if you are a leader of an organization and you have multiple generations in that organization on your team, that can be difficult, right? Cause oftentimes, not only can there be cultural gaps between different staff members, but there can be generational gaps. And so imagine having people on your team that span five generations. Well, that is the reality for my guest today. He is leading an organization that spans across five generations. His name's David Robbins. He is the president of cru. Cru, it's an international faith based organization that has staff all over the world. And so we're going to talk all about leadership. What he's learning about leading such a large organization, some of the things that he's been surprised by. But we'll really hone in on how in the world do you lead an organization that has people that represent five different generations all on the same team? So it's a fascinating conversation. Always love having you tuning in with us. Thanks for being here. Now onto the show. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business. David, thanks so much for being on the show today.
- [02:02]
David Robbins
Hey Rob, thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here.
- [02:05]
Dr. Rob Harder
Well, let's start with your current leadership role with cru. Tell us a little bit about that. But also could you share just a bit about the past experiences you've had that led up to this important role now as president of cru.
- [02:16]
David Robbins
My current role is the president of Camper's Crusade for Christ International, which is known in the US as cru. And so it's a ministry nonprofit to, you know, really in, in about 192 nations. And it's phenomenal. Get to see the leaders and the other nonprofit leaders. I get to rub shoulders with as I travel internationally and see the amazing work our local leadership in nations around the world are doing. But when it comes to my own personal leadership journey and stops along the way, I mean, we've actually had lots of stops from Pisa, Italy, to Atlanta, Georgia, New York City, Little Rock, Arkansas, which was the role I had right before I came to this role. I was the president of Family Life, which is a nonprofit to marriages and families. But in that space, you know, the two or three things come to my mind when I think, okay, where do I find myself now? And what are things that got put in my life as core shaping to my character elements. I think back to being in PISA and we were serving students at the University of pisa, and I just remember going, it just feels like duty. You know, I'm just doing this because I'm so supposed to do it. And is this nonprofit, you know, and we were in a particular ministry space. Is this worth it? And really wrestling with that. And it was from that time that, you know, I certainly wanted to be a servant who would love others well and serve others well. That's always been kind of something desiring and written on my life. But I realized I need to stop relating mainly as servant, which is a beautiful way to being a servant leader. We want that in leadership, but really is one that is loved and experiencing love in a way that it can't help but show and tell to other people. Because the things that we love, we can't help but show and tell to the. To others about it. So whether that's a movie, whether that's sports for me, whether that's what I believe is incredibly satisfying, good news about God, I can't help but show and tell of the things that we love when you're genuinely, in an ongoing, present tense way, experiencing that. And so that was one thing that just really altered the way I wake up in the day and view. Why do I do what I do and why do I continue to minister in this nonprofit space? I think a few years later, we were in Atlanta and we were having kids, and my first kid had special needs. And so everything kind of stopped and halted. You were still barely keeping things going while you were really addressing things at home, mostly, and getting him all the medicine and whatnot he needed. And it was at that time that I just realized, okay, it's one thing to be physically healthy, it's another thing to be spiritually healthy. But my emotional health was. Was something that I frequently ignored. I mitigate and manage overwhelm really well, as most leaders do. It's why we're leaders. However, if we start ignoring how that shapes us, it ends up really can tear us apart and take us out. And so just that my character is more important than my competency. Me with full presence is over performance every time, you know, and high performance every time. I hope that leads to high performance, but yet what we're coming through. So those are a few lessons along the way. I, I think also one more just in New York City, we were working with recent graduates and helping them thrive. So many people move to major cities after they graduate college and it's so transient and so many people face so many challenges. So we were really working with that group and audience and I just was chuckling like we have nothing to offer these people. We're new to the city ourselves. My education background is not impressive and we're working with all these Ivy League people, you know, finance guys or whatever. And I said, what do I have to offer? And it was a very clear what ended up being the posture of how we did work there was if we're greatly dependent on, you know, God, that's bigger than ourselves. So weakness is actually an advantage. And I will boast in our weakness. That's what we have to offer and how we're processing spiritually, emotionally, physically, our own challenges, you know, entering the city and the challenges you face in a place like New York City, we'll just bear, kind of bear that and bear it before other and process with other people. And I am amazed for this next generation how much that actually created, you know, platform for work with the rising generation. You know, they want real, they want vulnerable and, and you know, vulnerable is different than authentic. Authentic is you have a bow tied on the story and you're telling something from your past. Vulnerable is something more current and real that you're offering up and together. And all I know is, okay, I want to be a vulnerable leader. And so anyway, those are a few of the stops along the way that now we find ourselves here.
- [07:06]
Dr. Rob Harder
All right, this is a large organization. Mission drift is a reality for every organization. So how do you lead such a large organization and still stay focused on the core mission of your organization?
- [07:18]
David Robbins
Yeah, that's really good. In my first six months as we've. I've only been in the role for six months and I've had a hyper focus on actually our motive for the mission and that it would be rooted in a deep dependence and not just on our own self reliance and strength, but a deep dependence and Knowing that our hearts being engaged in it is how our work actually multiplies and sustains and grows. And so the first place we start is that we never lose our heart in it, we never lose our first love in it. And we keep cultivating that because that's the number one thing that can end up leading to mission drift, is that you can end up worried about a lot of different peripheral things instead of the core, and the core being what you're focused on. And then, yeah, you. I mean, we spent a lot of time in these first six months going right back to our calling. And just anytime in transition, which we're in a leader transition, it'll. And really, there's any time as a leader, you can create fresh emphasis on the core of our calling. And for us, that's meant there's really five strategic intents that I inherited from the previous leader to live out those callings. And so in this season of transition, it's really focusing and harping on, okay, those aren't going away. We're going to keep leaning into these. And a transition in leadership actually allows you to ensure that, hey, are we being effective, or are we just doing what we've gotten used to doing around these five strategic contents? So it's. I'm choosing to go with what's already created intentionally because it's good stuff, focused around our mission and is not mission drift at all. It actually elevates focus on the mission, but doing so in a way where they had been living that out for three years. And so anytime you live something out for three years, there's unintentional consequences get added. And like, all right, how can we bring another convergent focus again, to get really lockstep on how we're going to live this out? So that's what we're doing with the team, and it's been really fun to get to do that together.
- [09:18]
Dr. Rob Harder
Okay. As I think about the last few months, what has been some of the most surprising things that you've learned about yourself and your leadership style since taking the role of president?
- [09:27]
David Robbins
You know, what's interesting is that seven years ago, I was named president of Family Life, and that was a big leadership jump. And I didn't know a single staff member. Even though it was a part of the parent organization of crew, which I've been connected to for 23 years, I didn't know a single staff person. And it was like jumping into a totally. You know, there were threads of connection when it came to DNA and mission vision values. But yet when it came to people, it and being known, it was totally fresh. So, you know, I think often we look at our stories. Every leader does and goes, goodness. I've been prepared, you know, like God's prepared me in ways before today to face some of the things I'm facing. There's new challenges. Certainly I'm leading at a scale that I've never led before and at a global scale in particular, as far as the number of leaders from different cultures that I'm relating to. But a lot of what this first year is, I'm able to rest in it a little bit because of what seven years ago, all the visceral learning I did about. I'm not calling it a year zero, but I think it can sometimes be helpful when you have lots of freedom as a leader to call it year zero, where when you're entering something new, you're really absorbing and learning and relationship building with the team so that there is a trust that builds with the team. Unless you're in a situation where it's a crisis and you need to jump in and overhaul that. Some people find leaders find themselves in that place. You know, it could be financial or mission drift or whatever. For me, I've been able to twice now enter where, you know, things were on a good path. And it's about taking time to build trust with the team because the goal is you want to hear honestly where people are, their thoughts and feelings, concerns and hopes. And we won't be able to move forward if constructively, if we don't know honestly where we are. But when a new leader comes in, all the trust they had with the former leader, good or bad or whatever, it just, you gotta know it level sets and you're, you're rebuilding, people will lend you trust and they, and my team has, but you gotta have real formative experiences. So one of the things that, that was borrowed from my previous leadership experience, but you wondered, will, oh, will this guy, will you use this again? You know, will it. It didn't go exactly the same, but it was used again where it was just taking the risk of going, all right, this is where we find ourselves. And we had a three hour time that turned into a five hour time. I was like, guys, we need to take a break, right, and carry over to tomorrow. And they're like, no, this is gold. We need to keep going. Everyone needs to share where we just took the risk of saying, all right, where are you really? And what are the elephants you need to bring in the room? And we didn't try to fix those issues. But I was, you know, really demonstrating as a leader what's sincere inside of me of each one of you have cares, concerns, thoughts, feelings. Let's bring that into the room, not inside conversations after we break out of a meeting and let's deal with that reality and that'll be dealt with over time. But anyway, that's the first thing that comes to my mind of it's definitely getting lived out in different ways. Certainly I'm having to learn cross culturally in whole new ways in this role, which is really cool. Now it's just with our 300 members of our national teams in Africa for an all Africa leadership conference and it's just amazing to get to lead shoulder to shoulder with these people. So, yeah, there's a lot of skill that I'm learning there. But when it comes to the brass tacks with my team, yeah, it's a leadership style that I used seven years ago in my first year. And I think it's where we all start when we're starting something new.
- [13:07]
Dr. Rob Harder
We'll be right back. Are you looking for an easy and effective way to boost your nonprofit's donations? Well, look no further than Donorbox, the online fundraising platform that streamlines your fundraising efforts, maximizes donations, and simplifies giving for your supporters. With Donorbox, you can create beautiful donation forms, accept digital wallet payments, track donations, and send auto receipts. And the best part? There are no setup or monthly fees and no long term contracts required. So what are you waiting for? Visit donorbox.org today to get started. That is www.donorbox.org. hey friends, thanks so much for listening to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. Many of you know that I provide leadership and life coaching. With my 30 years of nonprofit experience, I know firsthand how hard leaders like you work. I also know how important it is to have someone you can call on and to get help with the barriers and leadership challenges you will face both professionally and personally. I really want to help people thrive and become all they were meant to become by providing coaching and consulting services. And it's been so much fun working as a coach, working with clients who are leaders just like you, looking to grow personally and professionally. What you may not know is that I also provide consulting services. Currently, in fact, I'm working with an organization to help them create a clear strategy and plan to raise $3.5 million to expand their organization. So perhaps you're an executive director and you sense your organization has hit a lid on growth and you need a strategy as to how you can Scale your nonprofit. Or perhaps the culture you set out to create is not the culture you have currently, and it's impacting your staff retention. Or maybe you're facing a major resource challenge and you don't know what to do. That's where I can help. I come alongside leaders and organizations to create strategies to grow their organizations and maximize their impact. If your nonprofit needs help with fundraising strategy or operational effectiveness, reach out today. You can simply email me at robharder.com, you can go to my website, robharter.com or you can call me 435-776-5173. I would be happy to provide a free sample coaching session or a consult to see how I can best be of help to you and your organization. Well, thanks again for listening. Now back to the show. Well, this is a nonprofit leadership podcast, as you know, and so we're talking all about specifically leadership within the nonprofit sector. I'm curious for you, what initially inspired you to get involved with the nonprofit world and specifically with crew, and then what keeps you inspired now, years later?
- [15:47]
David Robbins
Yeah, that's fun to reflect on there. For any of us as leaders, you know, that's to go back to the origins. For me, it was a student volunteer that poured his life into me. He had gotten involved with CREW as an organization. I had joined kind of the subset of campus, kind of an organization that we were part of together. He was two years older than me, and he walked beside me and mentored me and, you know, and apprenticed me in some ways of how to live a holistic life, spiritually, emotionally. And I'm so grateful for this volunteer that now is a, you know, furniture salesman. And he changed the trajectory of my life. And so from that point, I wanted to do the same. I wanted to multiply my life into other people's lives. And, man, I. I think back to those origin times of he kind of had a, you know, he called it a ceremony, but it was a little time where he was passing the torch to us and the baton, you know, to us going, okay, you take it and keep going. And he had really done an amazing job multiplying himself as a. He was talking to four of us, and now there was a little team of us trusting God together for what we wanted to see, for the common good in our area of campus, which was really incredible. So I look back to teaming together, the influence of a volunteer in my own life, and I wanted to multiply that and fan that into flame as much as possible, as many people as possible. Out there seeking the good of others in this world. And so what keeps me in it is that the idea of God invites every single one of us to be a part of growing what he's doing on this earth. And ordinary people doing the extraordinary thing of trusting God to use them and getting to be a part of that and encouraging them whatever form that takes for them to be sent out to, you know, change their corner of the world and the ways that the Lord puts on their heart. That's what motivates me personally, because transform people, transform people. And people that experience reconciliation, become ambassadors of reconciliation. And it's fun to get to work in that space and to invite others into it.
- [17:57]
Dr. Rob Harder
So, as I said at the very beginning of this podcast crew currently has five different generations represented on your staff. That's amazing. That's such a wide spectrum of different perspectives and different generations being represented. How do you navigate generational diversity on your team?
- [18:14]
David Robbins
Yeah, I mean, we're all living it and certainly some lessons learned. You know, we're 75 almost year organization, 16,000 staff worldwide. So there's a lot of dynamics there. And, and it's a beautiful thing to experience that unity in our diversity generationally and what we can learn from each other. When I was in New York, we were working with at the time was the millennial generation entering the workforce. So that dates me a little bit of when that was happening, but that's what we were doing there. And so I, I really dug into it of how do we, you know, millennials were just getting bashed. And, you know, it's like, no, these are amazing people. We need to lift their eyes to what could be for them. And there was a professor, Elizabeth Spinotto, and she had a quote. She said, every generation takes for granted the good that was done before them, reacts against the bad that was done to them, and responds to the historical situation in which they live. And so that quote, and we, I would. We would be in a lot of multi generational context, and I would often have a discussion around that quote. And every generation, we would divide them up in according to generations. You know, boomers, Gen X, millennials, Gen Z. We had some, you know, silence or greatest generations in there also, and ask them to map out what they thought, come up with themes that their generation took for granted, what was good before them, reacted to what was bad that was done to them, and responded uniquely to some historical situations that they lived in. And it was amazing to see how when people would come back together and have conversations, you watched just this Compassion grow for one another of like, oh, okay, I see why, you know, is somebody is doing the way that, the way they're doing that. And it created some great team bonding experiences. And I think often, I think for a generation like me, Gen X, are we willing to give millennials and Gen Z stretch challenges now? I think that's one of the things we need to be called to because I think as Gen Xers, we're a little bit of a bridge generation. We're a small generation sandwiched between boomers and millennials and man, we need to raise up this next generation well and really soak in the wealth of wisdom and knowledge from the boomer generation as much as we can. But there GT Smith, there was another quote and I think back to that New York time. He wrote a book called Courage and Calling. And this was always a challenge to older generations that I really asked myself now. And he said, those who bemoan the next generation's shortcomings, because now obviously there's all sorts of articles around Gen Z and Gen Alpha. Yeah, those who bemoan the next generation shortcomings grow more and more bitter, angry, disappointed and cynical. On the other hand, those who bless not only grow old with grace and joy, they have a disproportionate influence on the next, on the generation that follows. And I just, I mean the challenge is like we, we can have a disproportionate influence if we believe in this next generation. Get in the bunker with them and see what they're facing uniquely. And it's not about mentoring top down, but more side shoulder, shoulder and being in it with them and really calling them up and being there when they fail. You know, I, we need to give some people some stretch challenges. And I'm. One last note. I'm just so encouraged by Gen Z's interest and in particular spiritual interest for those who are involved in that type of space. There's something going on there and it's, it's, it's pretty cool that we can be a part of passing the baton to them.
- [21:52]
Dr. Rob Harder
Well, Gen Alpha will be joining the workforce in just a few years with new perspectives again, new gifts, new abilities they bring to the table because of their unique generation. Right. So what are your tips for anyone looking to intentionally bridge generational gaps when it comes to multi generational workforce teams that you have been leading? I think there's a lot more of this happening all around us. So what is your recommendation? What's your advice for those who are leading organizations that have that multi generational representation on their team as well.
- [22:22]
David Robbins
Well, one philosophical thought, one very practical thought that's almost too funny and silly to share, but worth sharing just because it's applicable. And then yeah, I may have one other thing to add on, but one philosophical is like we need to enter every room that we enter when it's like our teams are gathered and think what will 2050 look like? And what's my part often yes, we need to grow our missions now. We need to focus absolutely on what can happen by 2030 for sure. But what can I do between now and 2030 in order for the rooms that we gathered in 2050 that we would have a long list of people that we can challenge to major leadership roles? I think one of my biggest concerns that I look at myself in the mirror on honestly is are we giving people 29 and younger? So I'm stretching Gen Alpha into Gen Z here, but are we giving them significant projects that are fully theirs? When I go back and hear the war stories of our organization in the 70s and 80s, oh my goodness, 29 year olds were doing the biggest things and we're handed some, I mean some of the things that are most historic in our ministry and movement. Some of those stories came from 20 somethings leading it. And there are 20 somethings are going to be, you know, risk is a big word. Obviously we want to mitigate unnecessary risk. But when it comes to trusting for big things, you know, some 20 somethings, they have the energy and the ability to go for it and you know, you're not giving over the whole organization. But yet when it comes to significant projects, are we stretching and giving people the opportunities they can have? I think that will keep them. I was given some of those opportunities and here I am still around 25 years later in the same organization. I think they do want to make a difference, but they, I think one of the things that is out there in articles and research and whatnot is they want to make a difference now. And there can be a little impatience. You know, other generations are going, wait a minute, you're just 23, you know, like of course you didn't get that huge promotion yet. Well, are we giving them significant projects at least where they know they see their fingerprints? And I don't know that we're doing that that well, but I know it's a conversation we're having and something we're focused on. One very practical is we were redoing our office and there was this subgroup of couches that were in a near a common Area that's kind of mainstream in the office. And I go that is, I remember my first comment was that is such a waste of space. Like what in the world? Who's ever going to sit there and you know, why are we using taking up that much room for this massive U section sofa and all these movable modular things? Well sure enough the people who are most consistently in our office are 20 somethings and where they are sitting on their home base in a group of you know, 10 to 15 for the one department I'm talking about on that modular couch and then they'll go into in a meeting room and then come back. They want to do it in community to your point. So it's one like hyper practical even officing thought of just one of the implications of the you know I think this generation's going to teach us a lot of I'm watching them redefine their relationship to their phones quicker than we are. They see the influence of it. So there's, there's some things like that that I go they they want in person tangible touch and projects together as well as they want to use the tools that are available to them in meaningful ways also. But those are two thoughts.
- [25:58]
Dr. Rob Harder
Okay, so you've got a lot on your plate. It's a big job. You have a lot of people that you're that report to you. How do you avoid burnout? How do you stay personally motivated and how do you stay inspired and grounded in this leadership role with so many responsibilities pulling at you?
- [26:13]
David Robbins
I love this question. This may be the question I would care most about and because ultimately two or three times through my 25 years I would say oh, I was on the edge of burnout. I never walked through. I've yet to walk through a burnout experience yet I've gotten to really muted life and really thin as far as, you know, places. And Pete Scazzero talks about you can't go warp speed without warping your soul. And I think for those of us who do, you know, nonprofit common good work. Yeah. There is such an altruistic reason of why we do this that we do keep going and going and that's a beautiful thing. And yet it is not worth warping your soul and taking away what will keep you in the game. Going back to even the first thing it's like are we experiencing, you know, being lovers who cannot show and tell of the help but show and tell of the things that we love is that really experience inside of us? So one thing, some things that I've had to realize with some help of executive coaching that in a good way. And this is what you get rewarded for as a leader. When I get depleted, I carry on. I mitigate and manage overwhelm really well. It begins. I stop taking diligent care for my soul that allows me to keep connected and really leading wholeheartedly. And really I just start depending on this adrenaline that will, that will kick in. And you know, I got all my whole family of origin stuff of where all this stuff comes from. But the fact is is I have to create some rhythms in my life in order to not burn out because I know my propensity toward it. And so two of the simple simplest things I've done is one, I call them circle back mornings and really zero entry. And then I make sure I circle back, you know, like a zero entry pool. Like that's a beach entry where there's no steps but you go in slowly at least. My goal is to have at least two mornings a week that between, you know, starting and 10, 30, 11, it's more of a zero entry into the day. And then what I aim to have is circle backs on what am I experiencing, what am I going through? Because I just think what leaders mostly do is they stay. We stay so focused on the mission, we start ignoring ourselves and then that, that will lead to burnout if that sustains. And so that whole just circling back to what am I experiencing, what's going on in my heart, thoughts, mind, soul. And okay, what am I going to do about allows you to be able to name something and share it with someone else. Which is a lot of power. Like when you know what you're walking through and you may know I just got to live this out for two more months, but I'm going to name that and then I'm going to make sure I bring other people into it. Because leaders get isolated. I think that's the other thing that makes leaders go into burnout. It can we self determine not. And it's totally by accident that we can't bring others into our world anymore because of leadership roles we take on. And it's just not true. Anyway, so zero entry mornings, that's one. And then, you know, for the stage of life we're in with young kids, Meg and I, we do a day date Friday at lunch and it gets compromised very little and we'll compromise it if we need to. It's just a fact of okay, evenings are just hard. We got sports and all the different things. And so okay, that relationship for me is one of the most important to make sure we stay good in order to stay forward. And, you know, everybody wants me to have that because they, you know, I'm the only one that can be a husband to my wife and that will keep me in the game if our marriage is strong. And that, you know, a date in the middle of a workday is not going to be thing that keeps you strong, but it does allow us time to really connect when things are going fast. And those are two things in my rhythm that are that are essential, I think what friends do you have and do you have a coach in your own life also become two. I mean, if I were to go, all right, next two points. What's essential for me personally not going into burnout, those next two things are essential.
- [30:21]
Dr. Rob Harder
Well, David, thanks so much. It's been a fascinating conversation. How can people find out a little bit more about you and your organization?
- [30:27]
David Robbins
That's great, Rob. Thanks again for having me. You know, the easiest place is just to go to crew.org. there's a lot going on, and that's a place that kind of serves as the central hub for it.
- [30:37]
Dr. Rob Harder
Hey, friends. Well, I wanted you to know that this podcast can be found on itunes, Spotify, Amazon, Google podcasts, and wherever you listen to other podcasts. I also want to encourage you to, like, subscribe and share this podcast with others. This will actually help us get this great content out to more nonprofit leaders just like you. You can also join the nonprofit leadership Podcast community, find other resources and interviews of past guests, all on my website. Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. Well, thanks again for listening. And until next time, keep making your world better. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox, DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business.