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Nonprofit Leadership Podcast
Why a Leader’s First 90 Days Set the Tone for Long-Term Success
00:32:40
Kurt Mosley In this insightful episode of the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast, host Dr. Rob Harter sits down with healthcare leadership experts Kurt Mosley and Neil Marshall to explore why a leader’s first 90 days are pivotal to their long-term success...
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- [00:02]
A
This is Dr. Rob Harder with the nonprofit leadership podcast, Making youg World Better. What does it take to be an effective nonprofit leader today? What are the biggest challenges? What are the biggest obstacles? How should nonprofits fundraise in an economy that is constantly changing? All these reasons combined led me to start this show. And it's my hope that through this series, people can learn not only what it takes to be an effective nonprofit organization, but to hear from effective leaders who are are successfully making a positive impact in their communities. We hope you enjoy the show as together we hear how they are making their world better. Well, welcome everybody to the show. I'm Rob Harder, your host for the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. So, today's topic, we have all been there the first 90 days on a new job. What do you remember about the last time you started a new position? And, and how did those first 90 days go? There's been quite a bit of study done that highlights the critical importance of a leader's first 90 days, particularly when it comes to the many pitfalls they can fall into. For example, some leaders try to move too fast or they miss sacred cows in their new organization. Or perhaps they try to fix the culture before they understand the culture. All this and more are discussed with my two guests today, Curt Mosley and Neil Marshall. They are both healthcare industry experts. They've spent decades interviewing and placing thousands of health care executives across the country. In fact, Kurt and Neal will share some surprising insights when it comes to what they have learned all these years that will help you become a better leader. As always, thanks for tuning in. Now on to the show. This podcast is sponsored by Donorbox Donor Box, helping you help others with the best donation forms and in the business. Well, welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. I have two healthcare experts here with me on the show. Thank you so much. It's so good to have Neil on the show first of all, and Kurt as well. Both of you have decades of experience in the healthcare sector specifically, and so I thought it'd be really good to talk a bit about your background and set the tone for my listeners because this is a nonprofit leadership podcast, of course, and we focus on different sectors at different times. But to give my listeners a little bit of background, you two have spent decades interviewing placing thousands of healthcare executives across the country. And one of the things you've discovered is that the first 90 days of someone's tenure really matters with leaders so much. So you've created a 90 day series. So I want to start with that because I think this is a Fascinating concept you've come up with. Talk more about it. What led you to create the 90 day series? And why did you choose to spotlight a leader's first three months in their role?
- [02:50]
B
Thanks, Rob. And we appreciate being here. So, frankly, we stumbled into it. We were interviewing a hospital CEO who told us about a tactic that he used in the first 90 days of any assignment. And I remember thinking, that's significant. I mean, really significant. I've interviewed like 10,000 hospital executives. Why have I never heard anybody talk about that? And so I started questioning why more of the people that I've interviewed, again, 10,000 have never mentioned having a 90 day plan. Right. So we started doing research. We've placed healthcare leaders for decades. And what struck us as we looked into this is how many careers and how many organizations are made or broken in those first three months. We kept hearing from CEOs that their first 90 days weren't just about getting their footing. They set the tone for everything that followed. The trust building, cultural alignment, credibility. Which is why we decided to launch the 90 day series. We wanted to capture those stories and give future leaders a playbook.
- [03:55]
C
Excellent.
- [03:56]
A
Well, when it comes to some of the first 90 days, you've talked about how some leaders may try to move too fast. They may miss sacred cows in their organization. Perhaps they try to fix the culture before building trust and understanding the culture. So maybe let's talk about that. What are some of the key pitfalls to avoid during those critical 90 days?
- [04:15]
C
Well, Rob, just like you said, moving too fast. I always like to quote John Wooden. I mean, I don't know if you've ever read his book, but it's called be quick but don't hurry. And he would basically, he was basically saying that, you know, you, not our leaders, have to start making decisions within that first 90 days. But in some cases, it's. It's sometimes better not to do a lot during that first 90 days. If you're unsure of yourself and what John Wooden was saying, you know, have a, have an idea. If you make a quick decision, make sure you've researched it, you know what you're doing. And they try to restructure before they really listen. They come in and say, you know, we're going to do, or I did this in my previous job. That's another big bugaboo. And you're right. Ignoring sacred cows. I mean, we've had situations where a CEO in the first 90 days may choose to eliminate one of their leadership team. And it's the most popular member of the hospital. And obviously that really was detrimental for the rest of the time they were involved in that hospital and trying to fix culture before they understand what culture is. And I know we're going to talk further about culture, but culture is really inherited. You know, it's. It's not really created when you get there. And if you dismiss it too quickly, you lose credibility and the very people you need to lead it. So.
- [05:28]
A
Excellent. How would you say listening is such a critical skill for any leader.
- [05:32]
B
Right.
- [05:33]
A
But particularly those who are coming into a new situation, they're coming to an existing organization. What power would you place on the listing factor when it comes to those first 90 days?
- [05:43]
C
I think it's important. I mean, I think it's top of the list because again, you have to. Before you act, as John Wooden said, you have to listen and know where you're going. And getting to know everybody quickly getting. I mean, having the board's knowledge of what they want you to do in the first 90 days, also listening to your doctors, also listening to your support staff. I mean, you can't go forward without a playbook. And. And really listening is the start of the playbook.
- [06:08]
A
Okay, so one of your articles you put together highlights the importance of forging relationships outside the organization during those first 90 days. Why does that external connection really matter? And what advice would you give leaders to do it?
- [06:21]
B
Well. Well, no healthcare leader operates in a. In a vacuum. Their success depends on physicians, community leaders, regulators, donors, politicians, leaders who get outside the four walls meeting. All of these, including competitors and the partners, like managed care organizations, they're going to gain invaluable perspective and credibility. One CEO told us that his best move was visiting every local church and civic group in his first 90 days. It built community trust before he ever launched an initiative. Very good.
- [06:58]
A
So, yeah. You brought this.
- [06:59]
C
Yeah.
- [07:00]
A
Well, beyond just even the healthcare sector, into churches, community organizations, the Rotary, et cetera. So you're encouraging people, really, to get plugged into the community as a whole. Is that what I'm hearing?
- [07:10]
B
Yeah, absolutely. As a matter of fact, we call it dig your well before you're thirsty. Right. You want to build your relationships before you need them.
- [07:21]
A
That makes sense. Yeah. Well, you've recruited and vetted so many executives over the last several years. What were some of the surprising stories that really stand out to you? Particularly approaches that seemed maybe unconventional at the time, but ended up being really effective.
- [07:36]
B
So the first one was the one we stumbled across, Richard Parks. We were interviewing him, and he said, when I take a new assignment, Mama stays home and sells the house, and I move into the hospital. And I said, richard, everybody works hard their first 90 days. I'm very condescending, right? And he said, no, I move into the hospital. I live there for the first 90 days. And I said, well, so what did that do? He said, I'll give you an example. Methodist Hospital in Lubbock, Texas. Big, you know, $7 billion organization moves in. First night, he wakes. He wakes up the next morning. And like a lot of old people, he asked the residents who were in the same dorm as him, he said, how'd you sleep? Right? And one of them said, I slept like crap. These. These mattresses are horrible. And he said, I can fix that. He calls the VP of facilities. He says, get five pickup trucks, go to Costco, buy 30 new mattresses and have them installed by this afternoon. Another one. This is my favorite one because I didn't even realize it. My very first job out of college worked for an industrial distribution company. And they had fired our president. And we were waiting for the new president, and all of the guys were looking out the window, and the new president pulls up in the parking lot. He doesn't come in, walks around the parking lot, and he picks up garbage and he throws it. He never says a word to anybody, right? Picks up the garbage, comes in and then says, hey, I'm here. You know, and all this. Well, the message was very clear to us for the young, you know, really aggressive. It was like we got there 30 minutes before him, and we cleaned up garbage from that day forward. And he never said a word.
- [09:26]
A
Interesting. Just by example.
- [09:28]
B
Yeah, exactly. Jay Robinson, he's a CEO at Kaiser, interviewed every leader of the organization, all 250. And the question he asked was, if we are successful in 90 days, what will be different?
- [09:43]
C
Hmm.
- [09:43]
A
Okay. Good question.
- [09:45]
B
To identify. Yeah, exactly. And then I've got one last one, and then Kurt's got one. This one hadn't been published yet, but Shane Cerrone, he's a consultant now, but he was the CEO of Beaumont Hospital. It's one of the largest, most successful hospitals in the country. And so I asked him, shane, what's the Holy Grail? What is the one thing, right? And he said, neil, it's not one thing. It's a hundred small things. And the key is to find out what those hundred small things are and then get them implemented quickly.
- [10:19]
C
Rob, Jim Decker has been a CEO for 25 years. He wrote a book about the heart of healthcare. So really good book. But he developed this concept called the 25, 50, 25 rule. And I was like, okay, what's that? You know, I was good in math, but not that good. But anyway, and that's really knowing that a quarter of the people are going to be with you from day one. They're going to be the ones that are welcoming you with open arms. 50% are going to be, you know, on the fence. They're like, I don't know. I don't know the person yet. I'm still making up my mind. And then there's those resistors 25%. And his focus was, you know, not necessarily to worry about the resistors and not. You don't spend time and still talk to them, but don't waste time on win the middle. The middle 50% to come up and get in that upper 25%, listen to the bottom 25%, because you can learn from that. And he also told me, he said, never let a good crisis go to waste. And I've heard that before. And during his first 90 days, he came in, he said, I'll make a big hit, I think a national donut chain. It opened up locally. So day one, he went and bought donuts for the doctor lounge. But lo and behold, to Jim Decker's lack of knowledge, they'd used this baker in town, local baker, for 25 years. There was actually a meeting about changing the donuts back. And he said, I learned very quickly to make sure. I questioned and asked before I did that. I love that story.
- [11:41]
A
Really good examples for any leader again, in any sector. Well, you talked about culture earlier, and I do want to kind of dig into that because culture is so important for any organization. Again, any business, certainly when it comes to the nonprofit sector, can make or break someone's experience and really make or break an organization. So there's a myth out there that says culture doesn't matter. So let's talk about that a little bit more. What have you found in your research and your experience? How important is culture and why is it so important?
- [12:07]
C
You know, I've heard that myth before, and it's usually from somebody. Rob. That's about to discover that the culture is the only thing that's holding their strategy together. In healthcare, new CEOs, they rarely stumble because they lack technical skills. They've gotten a job because they're experienced, but they stumble because they misread the culture in that first 90 days. That's why in our first 90 day series, the stories aren't about these bold strategies or these huge grand plans, but they're about these symbolic actions that really shape the culture, like sleeping in the hospital, walking the parking lot, picking up trash, as Neil mentioned. But so if somebody says culture doesn't matter, my pushback be culture is an invisible infrastructure and it either accelerates or undermines every strategic initiative. And I guess if I could close. Culture is really the multiplier. I said ignore it. And you know, even the best strategy will falter.
- [13:01]
A
Talk about, you said culture is the multiplier. Talk about that a little bit more. How do you see that play out?
- [13:07]
C
Well, if you make a mistake in culture and misread it, it can multiply your heartaches, if you will, by tenfold. Because again, you're coming into a situation that many of your that support, you have created that culture, they've lived that culture and they may have been originators of that. So again, it could, you could do all the right things. But if you misread that culture at the start, it puts you behind the game. You know, you're, you're basically baseball analogy or 0 and 2.
- [13:33]
A
So, okay, so say somebody comes in, misreads the culture. The first 90 days is a disaster. Have you seen it where a CEO coming in can turn it around after those 90 days, even if it was a disaster? The first 90, yes.
- [13:46]
B
But it's better if you don't have to, right?
- [13:49]
A
Of course, yeah.
- [13:50]
B
Okay. The only thing that we've discovered that a not for profit hospital CEO can't recover from, and that's a no confidence vote from the doctors. It's a kiss of death. They can recover, but better that you don't have to.
- [14:10]
A
We'll be right back. Are you looking for an easy and effective way to boost your nonprofit's donations? Well, look no further than Donorbox, the online fundraising platform that streamlines your fundraising efforts, maximizes donations and simplifies giving for your supporters. With Donorbox, you can create beautiful donation forms, accept digital wallet payments, track donations, and send auto receipts. And the best part, there are no setup or monthly fees and no long term contracts required. So what are you waiting for? Visit donorbox.org today to get started. That is www.donorbox.org. so when you hire people, let's talk about that a little bit because I think about retention and recruitment really are two sides to the same coin in many ways in terms of creating a good culture starts really when you start recruiting and hiring people, how do you rank things like culture fit, for example, or chemistry as compared to competency and past achie achievements? When hiring somebody, how do you Rank those. What are most important in your mind?
- [15:15]
B
I'm not sure you can rank them. You know, competency gets somebody in the door. Right. But the culture fit and the chemistry is where they're going to last. And boards and search committees often over index on the resumes, you know, but we've learned the hard way. Technical excellence without cultural alignment almost always fails. A high achieving executive who can't build trust with the board or with the team is, is not going to succeed. And I'll give you an example of culture fit. Right. We were doing a search for a hospital and it is not a faith based hospital by name. Right. And yet the culture from the previous CEO, it was a faith based. They started every morning with prayer, every surgery with prayer. It functioned like a faith based institution. So when I was interviewing CEO candidates, I would tell them that and I would say, how do you feel about that? If they told me that they were okay with that, that that wouldn't bother them. They were not the right fit for this organization. Right. It was the people who said, oh, I love that. That fits with my personal values. That is a person that's going to fit in this faith culture. Not somebody who said, well, that wouldn't bother me, I promise you. People say, that wouldn't bother me.
- [16:47]
A
That's interesting. So you feel like there's a sense that when you're vetting people again on the recruiting side, push a little bit or ask the right questions to really understand what that person's passionate about, who they are and their DNA versus just what can they tolerate?
- [17:03]
B
Exactly. Absolutely. Now, as a matter of fact, that's a great way to put it.
- [17:07]
A
That's so interesting, I think, because I think you're right. Everybody in interview will say, oh, I could tolerate that. I could see anybody saying that. Right. But I like how you turned around and say, no, I want to hear people saying, that's what I love to do. This is who I am. That's a good match for my DNA. Okay, well, that's good. So leadership, we talk a lot about the leadership on the show and obviously we're focused on the healthcare sector because that's your experience for both of you. But leadership is leadership in many ways. In fact, I've had people, people on the show that were in the for profit world and now they're in the nonprofit world and vice versa. So I do think there's an element that leadership is leadership regardless of the sector or where you serve. Now, of course, there's nuances to the healthcare industry. Nuances to various nonprofits, say the humanitarian nonprofits, and nuances to a business for sure. But kind of putting those aside for a second, when it comes to leadership, you've worked with a lot of leaders, with those leaders you've talked with in the healthcare sector. What common threads, recurring themes have emerged in their leadership experiences that would be helpful for my listeners, in your opinion.
- [18:09]
B
A couple of things. And again, remember that we're really focusing on kind of that first, the first 90 day. We call it the first 90 days. The early part. Right. But listening before leading. Those who pause and learn gain credibility, visibility. Walking the halls, rounding, showing up in the cafeteria, walked through a hospital with a CEO who had been gone for five years. He was the board. He was on the board. And I was walking through the hospital with him. And every three steps, he hadn't been the CEO for five years. Every three steps somebody came up, hey, Ray. He would stop and talk to him. As a matter of fact, there was a porter pushing a patient. No lie. Pushing a patient down the hall. The porter waved to Ray. The patient popped up and said, ray, how are you? I haven't seen you in forever. Oh, that's great. But that was 25 years of being, being visible, humility and curiosity. Leaders who ask more questions than they answer in the first three months are going to build better, deeper trust, consistency. People are watching not just what you say, but how you show up day after day. And then finally, for me, I think what I've learned, sometimes it's better to do nothing than successfully implementing the wrong thing.
- [19:39]
C
When Neil talked about people are watching you, my father had a saying. He always he said, you can't talk your way out of something you behave yourself into. And I was like, you can't talk your way out of something you behave yourself into. Patton said it the best. And he said he wasn't bragging, but he said, I'm a leader. People are watching me. So they watch what I do. In the first 90 days, everybody's going to those 50% that Jim Decker talked about, the 25% they're going to be watching. So again, make sure your behavior matches whatever you're saying. You know, we've had situations where CEOs send out a bunch of initial memos, good memos, maybe put signs up in the hospital, but if it doesn't match the behavior they're exhibiting, it's all for naught.
- [20:22]
A
That's powerful. Okay, I want to double click on that a little bit. Tell me more about that. How does this play out when the actions, when there's a disconnect, how does that usually show up, up, and then how to people get that feedback back to the board or, or to the executive himself or herself?
- [20:39]
C
Well, if there is an issue, you got to own the behavior. You know, you got to say, listen, I made that mistake again. Listen more than you talk. You know, that old two ears, one, you know, two eye or two ears and one mouth. And then when you're making these changes, make the visible changes. Make sure it's something you can accomplish. Don't just talk about it. Or in some cases, I've had, you know, I've had CEOs that said I was trying to implement something they were actually trying to change. I think one of the light fixtures. But the CEO said, listen, get. Grabbed me the ladder and got up there and did it. Didn't say anything. So again, he was basically saying, you know, I can do it too. I'll be with you as we go along. So.
- [21:18]
A
Okay. One other thing you said earlier was sometimes it's better not to do anything than to do the wrong thing. I think there's some real wisdom on that. Talk a little bit more about why you said that. And is there an example you can think of? Because I think leadership naturally are kind of action biased. In other words, they're going to move towards action, making decisions. They feel like they need to move forward or they're not being a leader. So kind of holding back can be against the nature of a lot of leaders. So talk about that. Why is that so important? Sometimes a pause. Maybe instead of making the wrong decision.
- [21:48]
B
There are ways to make sure that the things you're doing are, are going to be received in a positive way. I'll give you an example. We had a, A CEO who, one of his team members or one of his executive team members, he just, it. He just didn't click with. Right. And this is in the first 90 days, and he let them go. What he didn't realize was this person was literally the most popular person in the hospital and it just eroded. Now, I'm not saying that he should build his own team. Okay. But you need to make sure, if you're doing something like that, you need to make sure that you run it up every flagpole. You can run it up and you've got a very clear picture and a clear mandate that it's okay to do that and that it's not. If not, you can wait, okay. You can have conversations such that maybe makes this person decide they're going to leave on their own. There are many ways to do it without just knee jerk. This is not a person that I want on my team and showing them the door.
- [23:04]
A
That's an interesting example. And thanks for that.
- [23:06]
C
And again with the Decker donuts, you know, the first 90 days. So just trying to be a good steward. It blows up in his face. But I loved his attitude, was like, never let a good crisis go to waste. So he improved on it and said, I made a mistake and will happen again.
- [23:23]
A
Well, you say something very, very interesting too, and I think very powerful. How important is it for a leader to apologize and own up to their mistakes as soon as possible once they realize they made a mistake?
- [23:33]
C
Paramount. It's paramount. You know, I mean, anybody, as Neil mentioned earlier, humility, really. Again, the first 90 days, because you're not going to know everything. You're new there, you know, nobody expects you to know anything. And sometimes the mindset of a new individual is, I've done this before. I did at my former facility. I'll do it here. It's, it's, it's an inappropriate action in my opinion.
- [23:54]
A
Got it.
- [23:55]
C
Okay.
- [23:56]
A
All right. So we've talked a lot about leaders, and particularly CEOs specifically. But your insights also blend into the board involvement and the impact boards have with organizations. You know, whether it be the healthcare sector or nonprofits more generally. How many boards or even search committees apply the insights for the 90 day series to really ensure they're setting up their new executives for a stronger transition?
- [24:18]
C
I mean, board can set that tone during the first 90 days by letting new leaders have space. You know, give them some space. So let them, let them walk around, find their way around and also guide you during that transition. And don't load them down with these must dos like we gotta change this in the first 30 days or this new electronic medical records has to be system has to be evaluated within the first 60 days, you know, and encourage listening tours through the board when they walk around with the board members, introducing them and learning about different situations. And provide clarity on those sacred cows you mentioned earlier and landmines they can avoid. Don't let them walk into them just so they know. Well, they'll learn a learning experience. No, that really sets them back. So also search committees, they could should probe the candidates on how they approach their first 90 days. Ask them what do you plan to do? Because their mindset in this transition is going to tell you a lot about their leadership style and how they'll lead.
- [25:13]
B
Yeah, and I would also say the Board needs to clarify and be very clear on what they want the CEO to accomplish and make sure that the bulk of the board is aligned with that. Also, don't expect a new CEO to solve a problem immediately that has plagued the organization for the last 10 years. Right. That's not fair. Here's another one, and I love this. Set up an early win or two for the CEO. Provide the guidance and the resources so they get a significant win. And this is a little different. But ensure that there's documentation of issues that preceded the CEO so there's never any question. Right. Then the new CEO can't be blamed for old problems. Problems. And if you document it, you'll know so good.
- [26:09]
A
All these are great principles and good ideas. You know, one of the things I found when it comes to hiring new people or coming into a new position myself, there is almost. I always use the analogy, it wasn't original with me, but I thought it really stuck with me. It's almost like when you go to a new house, you purchase a new home, or maybe the home is not new, but there's things that's new to you and you look around the house and maybe you see little minor cracks or you see some paint that needs to be updated or, or the ceiling has some issues or whatever.
- [26:37]
B
It.
- [26:38]
A
When you're new and you have fresh eyes, you can look and see something. And like, you know what? I think that needs to be updated. And I would guess every new executive coming into an organization, no organization's perfect and you're going to see things differently. And maybe some things that do need to be changed fairly quickly, potentially. But how do you balance that with all that you've been talking about during those first 90 days, not to pull the trigger, so to speak, too quickly on all those changes you see and yet also not lose that you probably are seeing things in a good light. Maybe that maybe do need to be adjusted. And the opposite would be also true and probably not good for the organization. Is that after 90 days you're like, ah, I forget it now you don't even see the cracks anymore. You don't even see the paint that needs to be updated because you've so incorporated, incorporated yourself into the new culture. How do you make those two things kind of balanced? Is it more of a timing issue? Is it priority? Is it build trust first until you make those changes? Either one of you can answer that one.
- [27:35]
B
You know, don't get us wrong. We're not saying sit around for the first 90 days, just be intentional about about what you're doing. If you're finding those things, get with the folks that are responsible, right. And start laying out what you're seeing, right. And get them on board and get them to actually do the things. Right. We're not saying don't do anything. We're just saying be intentional, set the tone and make sure if you're, make sure if you're swinging the ball, there isn't somebody standing behind you that's going to get hit by the bat.
- [28:15]
A
Okay, very good.
- [28:17]
C
And I think, you know, there is some issues as Neil addressed, they have to be done. In the first 90 days, we had a situation where hospital CEO, day two, they had a name tagish situation at the hospital and access to the hospital is being granted to people that shouldn't have access to certain parts. Now he could have sat around and said, listen, I don't want to, you know, I don't want to upset the apple cart here. But it was something had to do with not only hospital security, but patient security. He had to act immediately on it. So that's again, I just adding on to what Neil said. It's not, not something you have to, if it's something immediate like that, you have to take action, okay. And then let ships fall when they may, you know, it may, it may be maybe right, maybe wrong, but there are some things that have to be done immediately.
- [29:01]
A
No, that is a good analogy. That's exactly. And I would definitely say that's, that's, you know, I would completely agree with that situation. When it comes to security or safety of any type, you gotta act quickly. That's what a good leader does. There's been an adage, I think it was Stephen Covey that mentioned change happens at the speed of trust. And I do like that phrase. And so for you, have you found that, that overall, outside of these security issues, safety issues, immediate, almost issues that you have to respond to, outside of those, how does that process of building trust in order to bring change, how does that work the way you've seen it, when it's done?
- [29:37]
B
Well, yeah, it's, I, it's incredibly important. And I think that the adage from Covey is exactly right. If your people don't trust you, you're not going to be able to get anything done. They have to be able to trust you. And so you have to figure out as a leader what to do to get your people on board and trusting you.
- [30:01]
C
And I think in those, those early days, as you mentioned earlier, trust has a lot to do with admitting you made a mistake and owning up to it and not just saying I made a mistake. Going to the people that you affected and talk to them personally face to face, active, listen, find out, tell them why you did what you did and then say, you know, in the future, I'll, I'll, I'll be glad to consult you first. I made that mistake and I look forward to working with you.
- [30:25]
A
So, yeah, well, this has been great. Such a good conversation. How can my listeners best connect with you and find a little bit more information about your work?
- [30:31]
C
Well, they can. First of all, they can find us on LinkedIn and along with your podcast. Several of the podcasts we've done, as well as many of the articles we write. Hand it over to Neil. But you know, we created this 90 day series to as sort of a guideline for new CEOs transitioning in America. And there's a lot of CEO turnover. It's, it's up near record numbers again right after the COVID situation. So we did it to highlight these first 90 days, these symbolic gestures that people make. They gain trust and they learn how to transition. It's not just the first 90 days. It's really the basis for their whole career. So it sets the tone for that.
- [31:10]
B
So yeah, if you're a healthcare executive looking to advance your career or attract standout leaders to your team, you can connect with us@healthsearchpartners.com or on LinkedIn. Also, we've got a couple of new series coming out. This one I think you would be interested in. It's search committee interviews or panel interviews. Right? A six part series on how to own the room when all eyes and votes are on you. And the other one is about mentorship. Why real mentors still matter even when YouTube has all the answers.
- [31:43]
A
Well, Neal and Kurt, thanks so much for being on the show today and sharing your insights. It's obvious you've got a lot of experience in this and you provide a lot of insights today. So thank you for taking the time time to be on the show.
- [31:54]
B
Thank you.
- [31:54]
C
Thank you for your time. We enjoyed being here.
- [31:58]
A
Hey friends. Well, I wanted you to know that this podcast can be found on itunes, Spotify, Amazon, Google podcasts and wherever you listen to other podcasts. I also want to encourage you to like subscribe and share this podcast with others. This will actually help us get this great content out to more nonprofit leaders just like you. You're to going. You can also join the nonprofit leadership podcast community, find other resources and interviews of past guests all on my website, nonprofit leadershippodcast.org well, thanks again for listening. And until next time, keep making your world better.