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Nonprofit Leadership Podcast
Why Passion is Not Always Enough
00:30:48
In this episode of the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast, Dr. Rob Harter sits down with David Rhode, author of Passion Isn’t Enough. Together, they dive ...
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- [00:02]
Dr. Rob Harder
This is Dr. Rob Harder with the Nonprofit Leadership podcast, Making youg World Better. What does it take to be an effective nonprofit leader today? What are the biggest challenges? What are the biggest obstacles? How should nonprofits fundraise in an economy that is constantly changing? All these reasons combined led me to start this show and it's my hope that through this series, people can learn not only what it takes to be an effective nonprofit organization, but to hear from effective leaders who who are successfully making a positive impact in their communities. We hope you enjoy the show as together we hear how they are making their world better. Welcome to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. So glad you're here. How are things going? I hope life is treating you well. Always glad to have you tuning in. I don't know if you're working out right now, driving down the road, coming back from work, going to work, or just enjoying this as you're hanging out and sitting in a nice comfortable chair, maybe sipping a little coffee. Just glad to have you here. Listening in to topic today is passion. Passion, I think drives a lot of us and particularly when it comes to the nonprofit sector. Perhaps we have more people motivated to go into the nonprofit world because they're passionate about a particular project, a particular mission, something wrong in the world that they want to make right, and that passion drives them into going to the nonprofit sector. So here's my question today is what happens when passion is not enough? What happens when you've got passion but you need leadership skills, you need some storytelling ability, you've got someone who have to kind of manage the money, right? You've got to know how to grow an organization in order to turn that passion into an actual mission driven organization that's making a difference in your community. And that's really the topic today because I've got an author on the show today, his name's David Rhode and he wrote a book recently called Passion Is Not Enough. And he's gonna talk a bit about the key elements of the book and we're gonna explore that, you know, about what does it mean to not just have passion, but have the skills requisite to really lead a nonprofit organization effectively by growing the fundraising efforts, you know, by leading effectively, casting vision in the key way, communicating to donors really well. So he'll talk all about that. It's a fascinating conversation. This book has been really interesting. People have received it well. I encourage you to check it out. And again, as always, so glad you have tuned in today. Now onto the show. This podcast is sponsored by Donorbox Donor Box, Helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business. David, great to have you on the show today. You have a new book out there called Passion is Not Enough. So I thought we'd start by just talking about that a bit in your mind and from your research. What are some of the key elements to include when you're building a strategic plan for a nonprofit organization? The reason we're starting with that is because your premise is you can't just have passion. You gotta have a plan, you gotta have strategy. You gotta know what you're doing in order to really grow a nonprofit organization. So maybe start with that. Of the key elements necessary when you're building a strategic plan, it is.
- [03:07]
David Rhode
I mean, you know, building your strategic plan is chapter one. So that talks about kind of the role I think that it plays. You know, the strategic plan is a roadmap for the organization. It's where you're here now, you want to get there. What's going to connect you to, from point A to point B. And. And the strategic plan is really that. So when I think about the strategic plan, I really think about two things primarily. One is discipline. And the discipline involves trying to get the collective leadership of the organization so whoever is on that inner circle of the strategic planning group, some representation of the staff, some representation of the board, and getting that group to agree effectively on. Here's the three or four things that we are placing our bet on. We think the organization could do a lot of things, but if we focus our time and attention on these things specifically, we think we have the greatest chance of changing the trajectory of the organization. So I think discipline is a big piece of the puzzle. And the second thing I would say is really around the notion of inclusion. The strategic planning process is an opportunity to get the perspective of a lot of different people who are part of your community. Your donors, your volunteers, clearly the staff and the board, community voices and their perspective on what the organization's doing well, where the organization could potentially do more. I think this is a rare time to really listen and to look for trends. I mean, again, you can't chase down every idea. But if. If a of the different groups are saying the same things, then then we should listen. And those are big clues. Those are like wildly waving red flags. It says, like, follow me. And so, you know, listen to those people. And I think that that's really important. The other element, the last thing I would say about strategic planning is it's important how we frame our goals. So the goals need to be measurable. They need to be time bound. And I give a very simple example in the book. But you could it would be easy for a board, for a group, to say, we want to expand our board and have that be a goal in your strategic plan. It's another thing to say we want to expand our board from 11 to 15 people within the next two years. And so if you use the latter choice, then you can build a plan, you can figure out if you're on track to achieve that goal, and then you can adjust accordingly. If it's just grow the board or build awareness or do things like that, then they're too vague to really be actionable.
- [05:39]
Dr. Rob Harder
All right, so when it comes to your book, how does your book suggest nonprofit leaders should approach building their brand to resonate with their audience and their stakeholders?
- [05:47]
David Rhode
Yeah, I mean, I teach nonprofit branding at the University of Pennsylvania. It's something I care deeply about. I started my career proctor and gamble, so I kind of wear a branding lens and everything that I do. I think building your brand in the nonprofit sector is really an interesting challenge. It's very different than how you would build your brand in the for profit sector. And so the elements that I think that we can focus on are really the following. The one area where you build your brand in the nonprofit sector that's very different is through your people. You don't know who's on the board of directors unless they do something wrong at Coca Cola or some other for profit entity, or you don't know the staff members per se. But if you think about how important it is in terms of word of mouth and growing our communities and growing our networks, our people are critical to how that works. As most nonprofit organizations don't have marketing budgets, there's not money that they're going to spend behind this. So we have to equip our brand ambassadors with the right messages. And I think as leaders, one of the key things that we can do, and I mentioned this sort of in a number of places throughout the book, is our job is to make sure that that messaging is really tight. Like, they know they have the elevator pitch down. They know how to tell people what our impact is and how we're making a difference in the community so that they don't interpret it their own way. Yes, they can put a little bit of their own spin or put it in their own voice, but the core message has to be something that's really tight and really well crafted. So I think that's one of the things that we can do when we're thinking about the brand because people really don't understand branding all that well. They think the brand is the logo or the brand is the website and things of that n nature. And it's so much more than that. It's really all of our interactions with the organization. It's all of our emotions. It's basically what do we think of when we think of X. And if that X is your organization, what's the picture that you want in their mind? And I think it's really important for us to sort of understand that. There's roughly 1.8 million nonprofit organizations in the United States alone. How are we going to be distinctive? What is it that we do best? And maybe it's best in our community or best in a neighborhood, or best with a certain type of program we do, but we have to sort of own certain kind of real estate in the minds of people. And I think our job is to be very disciplined with our message. Branding is the long game. We need to say the same things kind of over and over and over again, maybe in slightly different ways, but staying right around that same message. And a lot of what branding comes down to, and this is the last piece of the branding thing, is really storytelling. Storytelling is what brings our brand to life. It's how we're making an impact. And, and people don't remember facts and figures all that well, but they do remember stories about people. And when we can find those stories and those stories really resonate and they amplify who we are and explain who we are as a brand, then we can really begin to build our brand in a way that's really meaningful.
- [08:49]
Dr. Rob Harder
Very interesting. Okay, good stuff. Now, what actionable strategies would you recommend for improving and growing a nonprofit's fundraising efforts? Because fundraising is so important, what would you say about that?
- [09:00]
David Rhode
I mean, every nonprofit organization is different. And you could be a membership based model and New York fundraising is going to lean in one direction. You might be providing services where you have major city or state or federal government contracts and that's really the bulk of your budget. Or you might be an organization that brings in a vast majority of their money through special events. Okay, that all being said to me, when I think about fundraising and what I coach and mentor nonprofit leaders around, typically is around individual giving. Individual giving is 75 to 80% of the charitable revenue pie, depending on how you account for bequests and donor advised funds and things of that nature. But when you're talking about something that's roughly 3/4 to 80% of charitable giving. Sometimes we get distracted by other things that might be out there, and then we're chasing this and chasing this and chasing this and chasing that. The bulk of our effort should be aligned with where the bulk of the giving is. If the bulk of the giving is individual giving, then the bulk of our resource development plan should be in line with that. And I think when you look at individual giving, this really ties into your board and the board's role in fundraising. And I think when you look at your board, you then have to step back and think about, how did I recruit board members, how did I talk about this expectation of opening up doors and making introductions to, from the board to the organization? Do they know that's an expectation? Are they comfortable with that? And if they're not comfortable with that, that's fine, but then maybe they're not going to be an ideal board member. So I think part of this is just being really transparent with how the organization's going to identify future major gift prospects and the role the board needs to play and let them know that they don't have to do the asking. What they have to do is they have to make the introduction say, this is an organization that I really care about, and I'd love for you to talk about Rob and talk to Rob. Rob's going to really, you know, he can explain all the details to you. But I really believe in what they're doing, and I think, I think it's something you'd really want to learn more about. If they do that, they've done their share, they've done their part, then it's our job as staff leaders or frontline fundraisers to figure out a right way to engage them, and hopefully they'll, they'll feel like our organization's worthy of their support.
- [11:14]
Dr. Rob Harder
Now, when it comes to the context of building a partnership portfolio, which collaboration is so critical, you know, for any nonprofit, what advice would you give to nonprofit leaders when it comes to forming valuable and sustainable collaborations?
- [11:28]
David Rhode
So I think when I'm focused around partnerships, and partnerships were the sort of the key lever that I drove when I ran an organization for 15 plus years in the nonprofit sector when I was the most successful and when I grew as a partner, a partnership developer, you know, sometimes we start thinking along lines in one way and then we get smarter about things over time. That's what experience does for us, if we're capable of growing. So where we get off track is we focus on what the partner can do for us. We know that they're a big Corporation, they've got deep pockets, they've got big social media following or all these other things. And we think about what can they do for us now if we were smart and we would think, well, what are they doing? They're receiving requests or asks from hundreds, if not thousands of organizations throughout the course of a year. Why should they choose us? And so they're going to choose us if we are thinking about what we bring to the relationship. And so the focus from a partnership development standpoint should really include a couple different elements. One, basic research. What does this organization care about? If they care about the environment and we're an arts organization, it doesn't matter how good of an arts organization we are. They care about the environment or they care about financial literacy or they care about whatever. So we're not going to be able to bridge that gap and we should not waste our time or theirs in chasing that partnership. So we really need to think about research like alignment of impact and see that there's a synergy between what we do and what they care about. Step two is we really need to focus on how we can get introduced to this organization who that they know is willing to vouch for us, who knows, loves and trusts our organization enough that they're willing to say, I think you should talk to them. These guys really have it together. They're really making a difference in the community or whatever. And so once we get a warm introduction, then it's on us. Then it's our job to kind of like, we've got, we've been given the opportunity, we can make our story, we can do that. And I outlined a ton of information in the partnership chapter four where there's like, here's the six questions you should ask when you're in front of a prospective partner to kind of run that first meeting. But we're not going to get that first meeting if we don't get the warm introduction. And if we're not talking to organizations that care about the kind of thing that our organization is focused on improving in the community. So that's some of the sort of the ammunition and that some of the dynamics that are at play in order to be successful in the partnership world. If not, then you're going to find it's much more transactional. You're doing an event, they might buy a sponsorship or donate an item to your auction. But that's not a relationship. That's, that's, it's a very short term thing. If you're, if you're looking for transformational partnerships that are going to, you know, stand the test of years, then they need to be founded in value. You're bringing value to the relationship that means something to them and they want to be part of the journey.
- [14:38]
Dr. Rob Harder
We'll be right back. Are you looking for an easy and effective way to boost your nonprofit's donations? Well, look no further than DonorBox, the online fundraising platform that streamlines your fundraising efforts, maximizes donations, and simplifies giving for your supporters. With DonorBox, you can create beautiful donation forms, accept digital wallet payments, track donations, and send auto receipts. And the best part? There are no setup or monthly fees and no long term contracts required. So what are you waiting for? Visit donorbox.org today to get started. That is www.donorbox.org hey friends, thanks so much for listening to the Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. Many of you know that I provide leadership and life coaching. With my 30 years of nonprofit experience, I know firsthand how hard leaders like you work. I also know how important it is to have someone you can call on and to get help with the barriers and leadership challenges you will face both professionally and personally. I really want to help people thrive and become all they were meant to become by providing coaching and consulting services. And it's been so much fun working as a coach, working with clients who are leaders just like you, looking to grow personally and professionally. What you may not know is that I also provide consulting services. Currently. In fact, I'm working with an organization to help them create a clear strategy and plan to raise $3.5 million to expand their organization. So perhaps you're an executive director and you sense your organization has hit a lid on growth and you need a strategy as to how you can scale your nonprofit. Or perhaps the culture you set out to create is not the culture you have currently and it's impacting your staff retention. Or maybe you're facing a major resource challenge and you don't know what to do. That's where I can help. I come alongside leaders and organizations to create strategies to grow their organizations and maximize their impact. If your nonprofit needs help with fundraising strategy or operational effectiveness, reach out today. You can simply email me@robharder.com you can go to my website, robharder.com or you can call me 435-776-517. I would be happy to provide a free sample coaching session or a consult to see how I can best be of help to you and your organization. Well, thanks again for listening. Now back to the show. Okay, when it comes to your book again, I Believe you provide some guidance for nonprofit leaders when it comes to establishing strong financial controls which will really ensure organizational stability. What are some of those? What would you like to share today about that?
- [17:17]
David Rhode
Yeah, I mean, you hit the nail on the head, Rob. I mean, it's not sexy stuff. You know, budgets and financial reports and things of that nature. That's not why we got into the sector. And for a lot of leaders, it's something where they might not have a lot of training and they might not have a lot of comfort. And so I give some very, very specific types of financial controls that they could institute within their organization, but sort of above and beyond sort of the specific things they could do. I tend to think an area that's just overlooked very much in the same vein is cash flow. Organizations usually focus a lot on their budget, and their budget is for the year, we're going to spend this amount of money for the year, we're going to raise this amount of money, and this is how it's going to break down. But for those of that have run organizations that have payroll to meet, that have other bills to pay, that have things of that nature, cash flow is a totally different animal. Do you have money on hand to meet the needs of the organization today, tomorrow, in the month ahead, whatever? And so while we're doing our budgeting process, and it's important to do that with a lot of care and do it collaboratively and make sure there's a lot of eyes on it, I think there needs to be a separate parallel set of structures in place that elevates cash flow into the conversation, because we can plan for cash flow shortages, we can talk to our banks about lines of credit, we could talk to certain funders and say, hey, is there any way that, you know, I know you were planning to send us this grant in this money in October, but, you know, we would, if it's all the same to you, we'd really appreciate it in August, and here's why. Or you can talk to your board. I know you were going to make your gift in, you know, on December 29th, 30th or 31st, but could we make the gifts in September so that we could cover the fourth quarter more effectively for our staff and not worry about that? So, you know, if we understand cash flow and the implications, then we can manage it. If we're, if we're surprised by things, then we go into panic mode. So we just want these things to be really transparent, really sort of part of the dialogue. And I think cash flow you know, is something that if your board is meeting on a quarterly basis, there should be a financial report within every budget meeting and cash flow should be part of that conversation. Doesn't have to be a focus, but there should just be a. This is our current balance. This represents X number of months worth of, of our expenses and we're in good shape. And okay, great, check the box, move along. So I think we just need to become more comfortable with that. And maybe if you are an executive director who doesn't have a lot of experience, maybe you need to schedule meetings with your treasurer or your CFO or a member of the board who has more training so that you can get more comfortable around the numbers and have those kind of regular meetings, maybe outside of the board so that you could become well versed and comfortable and then can report out, you know, more effectively.
- [20:04]
Dr. Rob Harder
Our mission drift. I end up talking about this quite a bit on my show. So let's talk about how nonprofits can effectively build impactful programs that align with the organization's mission and don't lead the organization in a different direction.
- [20:17]
David Rhode
It can, and I think you're wise to bring it up. I think organizations do have a tendency to try to be all things to all people. And that makes us good people, it makes us kind people, it makes us good empathy, empathetic members of the community. But when you're running a business, and again, non profits are businesses, we have to know what our products are. And our products in effect are our programs. And we can't be good at everything. That'd be sort of unreasonable expectation. Maybe we have one or two core programs and that's kind of where our bread is buttered and our tendency is to then want to add on to that, well, we can do this and then we could do that and then you're right. Then you get three, four, five, 10 years down the road and now you've got 15 programs and people don't really know what you stand for. And now you've got programs that are costing the organization a lot of money. They're not helping you raise money. They're not, they're not creating any visibility, they're not attracting new people to your world and you just become spread too thin. And so I do think we need to be, again, disciplined about programming. One of the things that I think we can do is to identify other organizations, whether they're nonprofits or government agencies or whatever that that provides other services that are adjacent to and related to the work that we do. That way we don't have to say, oh, sorry, we can't help you. What you can say is we do X and Y. I know you also need Z. There's a great group that also does that. And let me help introduce you to them. That way you can keep your resources channeled against the things that you're very, very, very best at. And then you could direct them to some other opportunities, other partners, and then this could be the basis for other collaborations when there's other people doing those services. Providing duplicate services is just inefficient and it's something that I think people need to do less of. The other thing I would say about programs is programs are a real opportunity for you to stay connected to your work as leaders, whether it's staff or board members. Many times we're just, we're in meetings and we're doing this and we're worrying about the budgets and all the other things we've been talking about. And we get out of touch with the work of the organization. And I think it's really important that we use programs as a way to sort of like remind ourselves of why we got into the work that we did. Maybe we get kind of drained by all of the stress of the job. I find the programs to be the kind of thing that always made me feel better. You know, seeing how people are positively affected by the work we're doing reminds me that I got into this for the right reasons, that we're doing important work, that and board members need to have that same connectivity so that they can kind of share the same stories when they're helping to make those introductions. I just saw our programs the other day and it's fabulous. And here's what I saw and here's what I heard and here's what I learned and make sure that the programs can not just be the work that we're doing, but it's a way to engage key members of the organization and keep them sort of charged up and focused on the work that we're doing.
- [23:12]
Dr. Rob Harder
So how would you emphasize then the importance of evidence based practices when it comes to building nonprofit programs as well as strategies?
- [23:19]
David Rhode
Well, at its very core, what we need to be able to demonstrate is the thing that we're trying to do is actually working like we have a mission and the mission sounds wonderful and, and you know, people see that on the website and whatever. And then we have these programs that they, that probably aren't even going to get into the details about what our programs really do. But there's this belief Maybe it's a wish that our programs are going to actually have the effect that were intended. Our theory of change is actually going to play out in the way that we intended, maybe, hopefully, but we don't know. And so measurement and evaluation is where you try to put some meat behind that, where you say we're going to measure this group of people before our programs and we're going to use the same tool after they've been through our programs and we're going to see if there's a change and if that changes in the intended areas and that becomes the basis for this conversation about proof. I can show you that our programs are working because we're measuring this group of people and, and here's what we see. And then it doesn't become an opinion or boy, I really like, they've got a good personality. You know, this is about, they're making a difference and they're. And funders more and more are becoming disciplined around requiring, you know, this kind of proof. If you're a grant making organization and you've got a thousand grant applications in front of you and you're going to fund 75 of those thousand, who are you going to choose? Well, one of the ways you're going to cut it is this group of people has evidence that their programs are working. So why would I bet on somebody who can't prove that their programs are working when I can bet on somebody who is proving that their programs are working? So at a fundamental level, we become more competitive and will attract more resources if we have a measurement and evaluation program that can shine a light on the great work that we're doing. I've told people this. When they're even conceiving of a nonprofit organization, they haven't opened their doors yet. I will ask them, what's your plan for measurement and evaluation? Because this isn't something you should think about three, four, five years down the road. You should start measuring as early as you can so that you can begin to demonstrate that you're programs are working. Or you might find out that some elements of your program aren't working as you intended. And if you're not measuring them, then how will you know and how can you refine them so if you're gathering good information, you can continually make your program stronger, more focused, more effective. But it's only going to happen if you really are gathering information in real time to know if your programs are having the desired effect.
- [25:56]
Dr. Rob Harder
Communication is so important, whether it be telling stories about your nonprofit communicating to your Donors in an effective way. So what are some of the key takeaways from your book when it comes to crafting an effective communication strategy that really, I would say, amplifies a nonprofit's message and impact? What would you share there?
- [26:15]
David Rhode
Yeah, I would say that one of the key learnings is one size fits all. Communications is a bad approach. We tend to be. We tend to be very lean organizations. And so when we create a newsletter or we create an email, we want to send the same email and the same newsletter to everybody that's efficient. It makes sense at a certain level, and it's not like it's going to be harmful, but it's also not written for me. If I am thinking about communication, one of the things I want to teach and coach around is this notion of target audiences. So if I am talking to a specific group of people, I'm going to say things in a specific kind of way that maybe fills information gaps or amplifies certain things so that they know I'm talking to them. I'm not talking to people in general. I'm talking to them in particular. And when we think about target audiences, we tend to be general. We might even think about, oh, donors. Donors are a target audience. And the answer would be, well, they are, but are they? And so I ask people to get as granular as they can. New donors are very different than lapsed donors. Young donors might be very different than older donors. People that have made multiple gifts are very different than people that have made just one gift. And so our job is to try to break it down as much as we can and to craft communications which might have the core messages that are all the same, but at the margins, what are we saying? To kind of make it really relevant and resonate with them so it'll be more effective? And I know that the, the more narrowly you define something and the more you tweak something, that. That's a big lift for certain organizations. And I appreciate that. But the. At the end of the day, it's going to be more effective. So, you know, if you can, if you think logically, then this is time well spent because you're then going to be able to, as I said, craft messages for a specific audience in a way that they'll think, these people understand me well and they're trying to stay connected to me versus hey, everybody. And the same message goes to volunteers and donors and clients and strategic partners and board members and whatever. And they're all getting the same message, but they're all going to hear it very differently and, and not particularly well. I mean, think about it. You know, you. If you have an organization which is dealing with a younger population, then you might need to lean into social media. But what social media, which channels like is TikTok, is very different than an Instagram or very different than Facebook and Pinterest and LinkedIn and whatever. So who are those people? What are their general characteristics? Where are they consuming their information? What's the best way to reach them? These are all things that we have to consider. Otherwise we're going to miss people.
- [28:59]
Dr. Rob Harder
Well, David, thanks again for being on the show. I'm glad you wrote this book. It's got some great insights in it. So how can people find out more about you and more about the book?
- [29:07]
David Rhode
Well, the best place to find me is on LinkedIn, David Road. I'm easily findable. The book is available online at Amazon and Barnes and Noble. Just put in my name or the book title and it should show up. And it's what I'm so pleased about, Rob, is like the reviews I'm getting on the book. For the people that are reading the book, they're getting so much practical advice and so much that they can put to use right now. This isn't a book that talks down to you. This is a book that's sort of, I've been in your shoes. I know what you're going through and here's how to move forward. I want people to. To embrace the role and have more confidence. So I'm delighted people are finding the book and if they reach out to me, I'll find time for them and would love to hear their feedback and love to support them along their journey for leading nonprofit organizations.
- [29:52]
Dr. Rob Harder
Well, thanks again, David. Appreciate you being on the show.
- [29:54]
David Rhode
Rob, thanks so much for having me. I love the conversation and I really appreciate what you're doing to try to support leaders through the podcast.
- [30:03]
Dr. Rob Harder
Hey, friends. Well, I wanted you to know that this podcast can be found on itunes, Spotify, Amazon, Google podcasts, and wherever you listen to other podcasts. I also want to encourage you to, like, subscribe and share this podcast with others. This will actually help us get this great content out to more nonprofit leaders just like you. You can also join the nonprofit leadership podcast community, find other resources and interviews of past guests, all on my website, nonprofit leadershippodcast.org well, thanks again for listening and until next time, keep making your world better. This podcast is sponsored by DonorBox. DonorBox, helping you help others with the best donation forms in the business.