Nonprofit Mastermind Podcast

Host: Brooke Richie-Babbage
Episode: The One Thing That Makes Your Team, Board & Donors Go All In
Date: November 4, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Brooke Richie-Babbage explores the concept of "cathedral thinking"—a long-term, purpose-driven mindset inspired by the builders of medieval cathedrals. She discusses how visionary leadership, grounded in this mindset, is essential for nonprofit founders and leaders. The core message: anchoring your organization in a powerful, enduring vision is what inspires true investment and commitment from your team, board, and donors.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Cathedral Builder Analogy

• Brooke opens with a striking comparison between medieval cathedral builders and today’s nonprofit leaders.
  • "The most powerful organizations aren't just running programs, they're building towards a powerful vision." [00:04]
• She recounts how cathedrals took centuries to build, with workers dedicating their lives to something they knew they wouldn’t live to see finished.

2. Cathedral Thinking Defined

• The term “cathedral thinking” is introduced as a purposeful, long-term approach.
  • "At its core, it means that you are designing and building for a future you won't be around to witness, right? It's planning with the understanding that what you're building will outlive you, and that's the point." [02:57]
• Brooke connects this to social impact work: deep structural change takes generations, not just years or even decades.

3. The Role of Vision in Leadership

• Vision isn’t just a vague goal or a poster on the wall—it’s a visceral, shared purpose.
  • "It's the cathedral you are all building together. It's the long term vision of change… That's what people invest in." [05:05]
• Leaders must keep this vision “crystal clear” so daily work has meaning for staff, board, and donors.

4. The Parable of the Three Workers

• Brooke shares a memorable parable:
  • Three workers doing the same job respond differently when asked what they’re doing:
    1. “I’m cutting stone.” (disengaged)
    2. “I’m earning a paycheck.” (practical)
    3. “I’m building a cathedral. My grandchildren... will see the spires I’m helping build today.” (inspired)
  • "Same job, wildly different energy. That energy, that third person's energy, is what comes from believing in a vision." [08:04]

5. Why Vision Beats Burnout

• Brooke emphasizes that vision-driven work counteracts burnout, creating motivation that endures through challenges.
  • "That's the kind that makes someone stay late, not because they have to, but because it matters. And that's the kind that fights burnout." [09:16]

6. Tactics Still Matter—But They’re Not the Vision

• While performance metrics and day-to-day operations (OKRs, KPIs) are important ("The bricks have to be laid." [10:32]), they are only meaningful when connected to the larger vision.

7. The True Unlock: Discretionary Effort

• The most powerful resource in a nonprofit is "discretionary effort"—the extra engagement people bring when they believe in the 'why.'
  • "It's that extra gear that people tap into only when they believe in the why." [13:37]
• During stressful periods like giving season, this vision is what sustains organizations.

8. Leadership Challenge for Listeners

• Brooke concludes by challenging leaders to reflect on their communication:
  • "When you meet with your team, when you write your appeal, when you're prepping for your board retreat, are you talking about cutting stone? Or are you helping to remind people that they are building something sacred and enduring? Because that shift, it will unlock everything." [16:28]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Vision:
  "Imagine laying bricks every day of your life and you know that you will never see the cathedral… and you still show up." [01:30]
• On the Power of Belief:
  "That's the kind that lights a fire in the eyes of your donors and funders so that they say to you, how can we help? What can I do to help?" [09:58]
• On Discretionary Effort:
  "The most powerful resource in your organization is discretionary effort.” [13:37]

Important Timestamps

• 00:04 — Introduction and framing: The cathedral builder analogy
• 02:57 — Defining "cathedral thinking" and its significance
• 05:05 — The importance of long-term vision for boards, teams, and donors
• 08:04 — The parable of the three workers: cutting stone vs. building a cathedral
• 09:16 — Vision as an antidote to burnout
• 10:32 — Distinction between operational tactics and visionary leadership
• 13:37 — Discretionary effort: unlocking engagement
• 16:28 — The leadership challenge: shift from transactional to transformational thinking

Summary

Brooke Richie-Babbage’s episode is a call for nonprofit leaders to embrace "cathedral thinking"—anchoring their organizations in a bold, long-term vision that outlives any one person’s tenure. Through relatable analogies, personal insights, and a vivid parable, Brooke illustrates how this mindset unlocks discretionary effort, fosters deep engagement, and transforms ordinary work into something sacred and enduring. Her final challenge to listeners: Lead like a cathedral builder, and watch your team, board, and supporters go all in.