Erica Pelletro (3:20)

Great to be here.

Doug Hattaway (3:20)

Thanks.

Doug Hattaway (3:21)

Thanks for having us on. Glad for this to have this conversation.

Erica Pelletro (3:25)

Yes.

Julia Campbell (3:25)

So, Erica, let's start with you. Can you tell us a little bit about your professional journey and will lead you to the work that you're doing today?

Doug Hattaway (3:35)

Sure, sure. My professional journey starts, I guess, you know, we're going to call it 25 years ago, starting doing communications when communications was a very different field at nonprofits, working primarily at issue based organizations. Really thinking about how do you create campaigns, legislative campaigns, political campaigns, issue based campaigns based not on what it is you want to say, but on what it is that your audience will hear best. And so I worked at multitude of different places, the aclu, Physicians for Reproductive Choice, Empire State Pride Agenda, and then switched to the other side which was to go to work for philanthropy, the Ford Foundation. And I worked at the Ford foundation for about a decade doing strategic communications, communications designed to advance program initiatives, working domestically as well as abroad. And between these two series of experiences with nonprofits and in the philanthropy space, where I've really started to lean in is how do we build this field? How do we really promote the profile of communications as an essential piece of any type of nonprofit organization or philanthropy? And in order to do that, we need to be developing field based tools that will help not just upsmart one specific issue area or one specific organization, but will up the smarts of all of us who are trying to do the work of communications for social good. So that's what brings me to this table and specifically to this project.

Julia Campbell (5:21)

That sounds great. I love that we all have such different professional journeys. That's why I asked this question. I love to see how people come to the sector and how it influences the work that they're doing today. So Doug, would you tell us a little bit about your journey and then maybe you can introduce us to the project that you and Erica have been working on.

Erica Pelletro (5:40)

Yeah, my journey was a long and winding road, I suppose I started out in journalism school.

Julia Campbell (5:45)

Me too.

Erica Pelletro (5:46)

Yeah. And my first job out of college was for a member of Congress. So with learning using my writing skills sort of in the political arena and how to the intersection of strategic thinking and messaging meets storytelling and mass media, to use the old term for it. And I worked in politics over about 20 years on political campaigns and for people in state federal government, but made a switch about 20 years ago to focus on any organization. As our mission statement at my company is, that's looking to achieve ambitious goals for people on the planet. So we work with foundations and nonprofits of all kinds, as well as government agencies, universities, businesses, as long as it's to achieve, you know, a positive outcome for the world or for people, not just get good pr. And along the way, I wanted to bring my passion for storytelling as well

Doug Hattaway (6:45)

as social science into the work.

Erica Pelletro (6:47)

When I went to journalism school at Northwestern, they wisely made us double major. Not just learning how to write for a daily newspaper audience is how I was taught, but also to get deep into other topics.

Doug Hattaway (7:04)

And mine was sociology and psychology. So I've sort of brought that passion for storytelling meets what do we. What can we learn from brain science and psychology and sociology, these other fields

Erica Pelletro (7:18)

where they're doing rigorous research on how

Doug Hattaway (7:20)

people think and how they make decisions and how do we. How do they respond to words, images and stories, things like that. So that's what our company does, is bring in learning from

Erica Pelletro (7:32)

social science into

Doug Hattaway (7:33)

practical application for strategic communications, which is a good segue to the conversation today about this toolkit. It came out of a conversation Erica and I were part of with a group of foundations gathered by the Blank foundation, which is based in Atlanta. And the folks who are gathered were all chief communications officers and exploring what. What does the. What do we in the field need right now? And this was top of the list. Everyone's confronting lower levels of trust, political polarization in society. No matter what you do, no matter what kind of organization or issue, a lot of people are confronting these larger dynamics, and how can we help people navigate that? And there's a lot of work done in a number of fields that have ideas for us. And we looked into the fields of trust building, and there's a lot of interesting psychology and methodologies around how to build trust, as well as bridge building, which is a whole field of bringing people together across political and cultural differences. And there's techniques and ideas about how to do that and the whole world of civic engagement. How do we get people engaged in their communities? So we looked at learning from all those different fields and from organizations of all kinds that are doing just that sort of thing to curate, to use a popular word, a set of tools that people could use to think about, okay, how are we communicating now? Are there fresh ways we need to think about how to engage people that can help us advance our mission? Again, no matter what that mission is, how can this tool help us Engage people in ways that build trust, bridge divides, and get people engaged.

Julia Campbell (9:28)

I'm really impressed with the trust playbook because it's grounded in brain science as well as communications research. And it's. I really believe it's something that often is overlooked, like you said. But then when we come together and we talk about it, we really realize that trust is currency. You know, trust is something that we really need to strive to really ramp up as a sector. So I think, Erica, it says in the playbook that trust isn't just an abstract value, it's a discipline. How does this sort of toolkit define trust as something we practice, not just sort of something that we hope might happen? Yeah.

Doug Hattaway (10:11)

So the idea of this toolkit is that it's not a box checking exercise. That in fact, as we go through the seven steps and we'll walk you through them, but the prompts in the seven steps are intended to make you actually stop and think, to take stock of where you are, to assess where you're doing the work well, where there is room for improvement, and to kind of have a reset moment. So the guidebook itself is one that we see that people are using very seriously, with a lot of consideration for each of the steps. Trust is one of the things that we're trying to build through this, but it doesn't. It's not something you can just dial up and say, oh, yeah, I ticked these three boxes. They're for my communication. Now be my campaign.

Julia Campbell (10:56)

Now it's just me. Right?

Doug Hattaway (10:57)

Right, exactly, exactly. And I guess part of our motivation here in this project is, is that when we look across what's happening in America today, that we see that there are a lot of Americans and more than half of Americans are fired up and they feel like they really want to make a positive difference in the world.

Julia Campbell (11:16)

Yes.

Doug Hattaway (11:16)

And then we're looking at this research. These numbers come from research that's done by Hataway Communications, the Spire Survey, also more in Common, which is a fabulous, fabulous organization for these resources. But we see that there's a real wanting, a real yearning amongst Americans to participate, to be volunteer, to donate. They want to connect. We. We want to connect with one another in this context that we're all operating in and living in. But we also see that the number one barrier for people actually participating and engaging more deeply is the lack of opportunity. So they don't see. Americans don't see opportunities for where and how they can tap in. So that is part of our thinking behind this playbook is not just to create like A tool for communicators, but actually to give people who want to engage a place and a way to be able to engage and to participate. Not just to advance a cause or an issue, but in fact to build and deepen community.

Julia Campbell (12:15)

Yep. Oh, absolutely. I do a lot of work with social media managers and communication managers, marketing managers, fundraisers, who are really on the front lines of communicating to donors, communicating to stakeholders. And it's just like you, both of you have said, the polarizing climate, no matter what you do, if it's a library, if it is a children's program, is it can be mentally draining and it can be actually really detrimental to their mental health. And then it really makes them almost like gun shy to post about anything that could be in any way polarizing, which we know, you know, you post. I love the color blue. And someone says, why do you hate pink? And just spirals from there. So, Doug, maybe you can talk about before we get to the seven steps, what does the brain science tell us? Like, why do leaders often hesitate to communicate? Like, why are, why do nonprofits hesitate to communicate even when we know that transparent communication is really the key to building long term relationships?

Erica Pelletro (13:23)

Yeah, I think in a nutshell, it's a risk aversion, right? Where generally as our sort of toolkit for navigating life, most of us tend to focus on potential threats or what we perceive as threats as part of our, our brain survival toolkit. Which is one of the reasons a lot of what's called the default mode of human perception is often to focus on the negative, to focus on what could go wrong. So that's a normal kind of state of affairs of the human condition. And then when you're on social media and you see all the vitriol, it's,

Doug Hattaway (13:58)

it's actually rather rational response like, yeah, I don't want to get, I don't want to get messed up at that.

Erica Pelletro (14:03)

You know, and there's a lot. And that's one of the interesting things, and it's part of the toolkit is like, is shifting your perspective on a couple ways. One, looking at the opportunities in this

Doug Hattaway (14:16)

environment, which Erica was just speaking to. So with all the vitriol and polarization and our research at Hannaway Communications, we do annual surveys on why people get involved with good causes, how do they want to be engaged by organizations. And we're seeing record numbers of people saying, as Erica said, it's personally important to them to make a positive difference in the world today, 76% in our last survey saying they Wanted to volunteer and donate more. So there's a big opportunity out there if you show up. Right. So I, I encourage an opportunity mindset to help people get over the risk mindset. And there is that great old adage, I don't know who said it, but don't, don't let a good crisis go to waste. Right. If you're feeling, you're in a context of crisis, there's always opportunity around that. New ways of thinking, new ways of engaging people. And again, there's millions, tens of millions of people out there in the US who want to, who want to make a difference. They just don't know how.

Julia Campbell (15:22)

No. That's so interesting about the money left on the table, the resources left on the table, time, treasure, talent, that people really, they feel this disconnect. They want to be connected. They want to build a meaningful life. They want to do something that will help build their legacy and help create a better world for their children or their grandchildren. And they're just not maybe seeing the connection to opportunities where they can participate. I want to get to the seven steps. I just want to let my listeners know. You can go to trustplaybook.org, totally free resource, and you can get a downloadable list and a ton of free resources and case studies and all sorts of great stuff on the Trust Playbook website. But let's, let's start with the seven steps. Erica, do you want to start us off? I think the first step is actually my favorite.

Doug Hattaway (16:17)

Yeah, it's kind of my favorite too, because it's not that complicated, but when you actually think about it, it's like the essence of what smart communications is about. So the first step that we've got is to sharpen your strategic focus. And what that means is to really be clear on who are the people that you're focusing on and why.

Julia Campbell (16:41)

Who are the.

Doug Hattaway (16:42)

Of your goal, what you're trying to achieve, who can make that goal happen, and what objective, what it is that they must take. Often as communicators, we'll do something and try to change the opinion in America on a broad scale without being really clear about what it is we're trying to do and who can actually achieve, to take the action that we need to achieve the goals. So our first step is to really be very clear on assessing where we are and what we're doing. Take a look at who are our audiences. Are we focusing on audiences who aren't essential? Put the audience that is essential, the one that can actually make the difference in the center of your aperture. And to know who might we need to be focusing on that we're currently not. And that's the way we begin. It's the grounding basis of strategy being really clear and really sharp on what are we doing here? What's the focus? Who is the audience?

Julia Campbell (17:43)

Right. I believe in like a lot of my communications work, a lot of the audits that I do that this piece, it seems so intuitive, but so many organizations overlook it and say they focus on the platform first. They say we have to be on TikTok or we have to do more email or we have to send out more direct mail appeals. They're focusing on like the tactics and not the strategy. So I think that's an incredibly important place to start. Doug, do you want to take number two?

Erica Pelletro (18:11)

Yes. The second step is another thing that sometimes organizations find hard to do. It's listen to learn. And that's coming from a lot of brain science too. But back to the trust building idea. One of the folks we talked to whose expertise is in political polarization and how do you address that, that's where there's conflict that could even lead to violence is what they call toxic polarization. Like really bad. And it's bad in America today. But one of the things is trust. Right. If people trust each other, and there's a lot to that on the issue of trust, there's one of the resources is called replenishing trust. A whole playbook in and of itself from Spitfire Communications that we've linked in here. But one of the things is people need to feel that they are listened to and understood in their own sort of perception of themselves not being judged by you. So that's one thing. The other is, and it's kind of back to the basics of communications we all know as strategic communicators. It's about meeting your audience where they are, understanding where they're coming from.

Doug Hattaway (19:28)

You talked about in terms of platforms, well, who is our audience and where are they actually getting information?

Erica Pelletro (19:36)

The other is what do they already

Doug Hattaway (19:38)

believe about our issue or about the potential to make a difference in the world?

Erica Pelletro (19:43)

That sort of thing. Don't make assumptions.

Doug Hattaway (19:46)

You need to go listen to people to start to learn what's on their mind. So that's what this is all about. And it mentions a few other psychological. Psychological theories. One I'll just mention one called confirmation bias, which is the tendency for all of us to focus on ideas and information that reinforce our own worldview.

Doug Hattaway (20:06)

Yep.

Erica Pelletro (20:07)

That's not helpful if you're trying to persuade People, Right. Because we'll start to send out messages that support our worldview without taking theirs into account. So that's one of these. Again, it's kind of a fundamental thing for strategic communication, but it also feeds into trust. If you're just talking past people talking, not connecting in any way with the way they see the world, you're kind of wasting your time.

Doug Hattaway (20:34)

Right?

Erica Pelletro (20:34)

So it is kind of fundamental.

Doug Hattaway (20:36)

So it does push some

Erica Pelletro (20:40)

questions. Right. Our advice is explore your assumptions first.

Doug Hattaway (20:45)

What assumptions might we hold about members of our audience?

Erica Pelletro (20:49)

Let's put ourselves in their shoes. Why might they want to get involved and help achieve our goal?

Doug Hattaway (20:54)

Not why we're doing it, but why might they? Why might not they? What might keep them from doing that?

Erica Pelletro (21:01)

And really do those exercises of trying to get yourself in the shoes of your audience. And of course, you want to create opportunities to actually hear what people have to say.

Doug Hattaway (21:11)

So it's good to start with your

Erica Pelletro (21:12)

own hypotheses and theories and then find ways either formal, like how do we. Communications. We do a lot of communications research, focus groups, interviews, surveys. That's listening, right?

Doug Hattaway (21:23)

That's formal structured, large scale listening. But you don't have to do all

Erica Pelletro (21:28)

that you can do.

Doug Hattaway (21:29)

Get folks in your community together. Start with people you serve.

Erica Pelletro (21:33)

You'll often be surprised what you hear from the people who think know you best and then.

Doug Hattaway (21:37)

And that sort of thing. It can be less sort of structure. But it's a very, very useful exercises. Just listen.

Julia Campbell (21:45)

I think that I could do a podcast episode on each one of these steps. But yeah, let's go to number three. Do you want to take that, Erica?

Doug Hattaway (21:54)

Yeah, sure. It's actually interesting you say that, Julius, because Doug and I are having a lot of conversations with folks who want to go deep into one section or another and to really dive into like how do we apply this and actually build with it. But the next step builds on what Doug was just talking about. It's about once you have a clearer understanding of how you are perceived and how others perceive you to really try to correct these misperceptions. So this step is all about now that you've done the listening, the really deep listening, the real check, your ego at the door listening. Not always easy for all of us to really think about what do they perceive in us that just isn't right and what do we perceive in them? That actually we were off base here. So to be able to really take a step back and learn as we're going here and then actively take the steps to change the Misperceptions. So where are these misperceptions coming from and what can we do to correct them, to make sure that we do have an accurate idea of our audience, Also our opposition, also our allies, so that we're clear, so they are viewing us clearly, and we also are viewing them clearly.

Julia Campbell (23:15)

That's the next step in this, the addressing misperceptions. Like, how do misperceptions fuel distrust? How I'm thinking. I've worked in. And you've worked. Both of you have worked in a lot of different cause areas. Working in, like domestic violence or sex trafficking, you know, prevention, working with foster care. There's always misconceptions around the work. There's misconceptions around the adults that work there. There's misconceptions around the cause. And I think addressing those misconceptions is incredibly important. All right, I love number four.

Erica Pelletro (23:55)

I love collaborating, engaging unlikely allies. That's interesting. Build on the previous one, too.

Julia Campbell (24:01)

Yes. Everything builds on everyone builds on the next.

Erica Pelletro (24:05)

And again, we know this. If you're trying to break through to an audience, particularly around an issue that feels devices are polarized, reach out to people, get. Get allies and messengers who people wouldn't expect, like, oh, wow, look at that. I had no idea that Republican and that Democrat, you know, agreed on that thing just right there. You're going to capture attention. And that's. That's coalition building. That's thinking beyond, you know, who's quote on your team, not writing off people who you might think are opponents. Right. Which is a word that comes, you know, when we think of political strategies. Okay, we've got our side here and that side there, and we're fighting for the middle. And one of the great examples that's cited in the toolkit is the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, which was a campaign in Florida with a ballot measure to restore voting rights to people who had

Doug Hattaway (25:01)

been served time in jail.

Erica Pelletro (25:05)

And the founder of that, Desmond Meadow,

Doug Hattaway (25:09)

said, I didn't write off anybody. I would. And we did not consider anybody against us. We would talk to all kinds of people. And it was part of the strategy. Right. The strategy was don't make assumptions that somebody's not going to be on our side. And sure enough, they won a Super majority over 60% of the ballot, huge win to restore voting rights in that state. And that was a good, sort of like, it's a savvy thing to do. It's a nice thing to do. And also, as you'll see as you dig in some of the research in Here that's available like from More in Common, which is an organization that does sophisticated audience research through this lens. How do you know, how do we look past sort of the political divides? And you'll find there's a lot more common ground out there than, than you might think.

Julia Campbell (26:02)

So great. And then number five, face to face community level dialogue.

Julia Campbell (26:08)

I love it.

Julia Campbell (26:08)

I teach digital communications, but I think it's so important. Do you want to take this one, Erica?

Doug Hattaway (26:13)

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean, what we saw with the research that we did and the people that we talked to is yes, there's a lot of polarization and a lot of it's happening on the national level. But if we really want to bridge, if we really want to work together, that people want to do it in community, that we want to build relationships with our, you know, the firefighter down the block, the guy who runs the bodega, the preschool teacher, the pastor in the church, like this is where we can really drill down and build together. So that's where we see real opportunities, is building in community. And that's where our strength is, is with our local people, the people that we know. And we know that from the research that people are interested in working with others to find unlikely allies to advance issues of concern to them in their communities. And the way that we begin with is right here. We begin with it right here at home. So the way to think about it series of prompts that we have is, you know, really assess, like, are we engaging people at the local level? Are we making sure that people in community have an ability to engage, to interact? Are we really appealing to people and drawing to them from their core, from their heart, from their home? And then to think about it like, who might we bring together in community as an organizing strategy? Who are the people who are part of our daily walkabout lives that we can bring together in community to help build and to find ways to identify what are our shared aspirations. One of the things that Doug and I have learned, and I say it as somebody who comes from the nonprofit world, is that we, we often sound a little judgy and preachy. And so the way to bring people together locally in community and to really challenge yourself to do it as an open and honest invitation. I'm not asking you to come because I'm going to try to persuade you that I'm right or you're wrong on whatever issue it is. But I am inviting you because I want to learn with you. And together we can co create, we can define what do we want to be working on? What is our shared aspiration for our lives, for our communities, for our children, our families in our country? That's how we begin.

Doug Hattaway (28:35)

Oh, wow.

Julia Campbell (28:35)

So this is so powerful, especially right now. I just think of the time, the moment that we're in. All of this is so relevant and very powerful. All right, number. Number six, it's not about perfect words. It's about clear words.

Erica Pelletro (28:52)

Yeah. We said speak plainly and strategically. So back to good. Communicators know we need to use accessible, familiar language with our audience. If we use jargon, which is defined as specialized language spoken by groups of people who are trained in that language, we miss almost everybody else.

Julia Campbell (29:12)

Yeah.

Erica Pelletro (29:13)

So we know that's back to sort of some of the basics, like think about the language use and make sure it's going to resonate with your audience. But back to sort of the environment we're in. It also creates political dynamics. Right. People think you're talking over their head, you know, that sort of thing. Well, you are. You're speaking right past them. Also, language is more and more politicized, so shorthand that we could use in the work we do can get politically charged very quickly. So, for example, diversity, equity and inclusion. Very important issues, Very important work. That term dei, has been turned into a political buzzword. And what the research says on how to deal with that is to speak plainly about what you mean. What does that look like in the work that you do? And just make it very clear and concrete in your context. And a lot of those things aren't all that controversial for people when you talk about. Talk about them in very human terms. So look at the buzzwords you might be using by that. We're saying, you know, just sort of a word that's popular in your field that might not be translating to others. And translate.

Julia Campbell (30:21)

I read a very interesting article, actually. Let me see if I even have it up here about the importance of language and not sugarcoating language. I thought it was really interesting. Okay, I'll put it in the chat. It was in the Chronicle of Philanthropy. It's called Food Insecurity and Other Ways to Sanitize Poverty. So it actually, I think, you know, there. It's important to respect the dignity and integrity of the people that you serve. But sometimes the language is confusing to other people that are not in our field, that are not doing the work, that are not as educated about the cause. But no, it's a really interesting article. So it's by Matt Watkins. I'll put it in the chat, it just made me really think about jargon and, like, the terms we use and whether or not they're harmful or whether or not they're confusing to people. So super important. All right, let's do the last one. Number seven.

Doug Hattaway (31:26)

Number seven. I mean, come on. We're communicating. Lucky number seven. We're storytellers. We like to tell stories, and we know the power of telling important stories to, you know, put a face on the work that we're doing, but also to mobilize and bring people together. Like, we are Americans, and Americans are aspirational beings kind of writ large. We believe in a future. We want to be able to see it. We want to be able to see ourselves reflected in it. And as communicators and storytellers, this is where we can really apply our craft. And what we need to be doing in this step is really pointing to the problem solvers, to really who are the people that have either solved the problem or most powerfully. We love a good story. So somebody who started at one place and then to be able to tell the story about how they transitioned their process to get to another place and to have these stories be kind of core to our communications campaigns. So we're looking for examples of who's already taking productive action on our issue that I can identify with, that I can relate to, that I can actually see what they're doing and think about it reflected in my own life. And also to highlight the bridge builders, like the folks who reach across lines, however you might define them, and have those become the stories that we tell. There's a really interesting group on college campuses, and it's called Bridge usa. And what they do is they bring folks together. This is college students who want to engage in conversation with people who may have a different opinion on issues, whatever issues or approaches to life. And what Bridge USA is, it gives people a place to come together, to be able to talk about their, you know, their feelings, their political positions, their kind of moral stances with people who are opposed to it, but doing it in a way that they come together in a safe space where there are people trained to kind of keep. Keep the conversation at a place where it's respectful dialogue. That's what we're looking for. We're looking for people who can bridge, who can really understand where others are coming from, to be able to speak and share your own opinion and also hear that and understand that with others. Bridge USA is now in over 100 college campuses. They're really hungry. We're hungry. For space to be able to talk. And that's what BridgeUSA offers to us. So through storytelling as through creating connection, we can find spaces to work together and help fill this need in America of wanting to come together, to participate, to dive in and to have impact on the world around us.

Julia Campbell (34:25)

I love that case study. It's on the website too. Thetrustplaybook.org I think it's so effective to have those kinds of case studies there so organizations can see it in action. How could a nonprofit, someone listening, they're really excited about this framework. How can they start or use these questions in strategic planning or maybe in board conversations? What do you think, Doug? I'll turn that one to you.

Erica Pelletro (34:53)

Yeah, that's. That's a great question. We did set it up and it says in there, this isn't just a communications job. Were trying to equip communicators who are members of the communications network with a set of sharp strategic science back questions that they can pose within the organization and help to open eyes about new ways of thinking and engaging their audiences. So that's kind of how it's set it up. It's sort of encouraging folks to have facilitate these conversations internally, which can start to open people's eyes. Like a lot of times it's your program that are engaging people in the community and the comms is in support of that. But we see that a lot, A lot of our conversations with organizations that are interested, the program staff who are designing programs not in the community are really intrigued by a lot of this.

Julia Campbell (35:49)

Oh no, that's great. I think it's very actionable. There's reflective questions at each step of the playbook. It's very easy for an organization to maybe pick it up and, you know, pick and choose, maybe talk about one step at the next staff meeting. So just a couple of questions left. But for nonprofits that don't have like a dedicated person doing communications, what small adjustments can they make? Like if it's organization of one or two or three, or maybe it's just a development department of one, you know, what small adjustments can they make to can they make that will make a big difference in trust focused messaging?

Doug Hattaway (36:33)

So I think the place to start, and it's not just for communicators, is to really start with your audience. Like, who are you engaging with? If you're in the development team, who are your donors? Who are the foundations you're engaging with? If you're the head of an organization, is this a specific set of communications that you want to have with your board or is it with other leaders in this space, but to be very intentional about who your audience is and to really spend time honing that clarity so you're not just kind of blasting out to the world and whoever might get it, might get it, but that you actually have the discipline to know who your audience is and then to think about not just what you want to say, but what are they going to hear. And then crafting and creating your communications. And it's everything from a memo to the board, to talking points for a press interview to a one on one donor visit. Like how are you crafting what you're saying in a way that centers how your audience is going to receive it. And along the way here we find again, not all of us want to acknowledge it, that often the people, like the spokesperson for an organization may not be the best spokesperson on an issue. That in fact, depending on your audience, somebody else may be a better spokesperson and so be able to understand your audience well enough to know what they're going to be most responsive to hearing and also who they're going to be most susceptible or open to hearing it from. And then having that, you know, be in service of your mission and what you're trying to, to accomplish and trying to achieve. So I think audience first is, is essential across, you know, all organizations.

Julia Campbell (38:18)

Absolutely essential. All right, Doug, last question. Kind of a two parter. What gives you hope about the future of trust in our sector? And then where can people connect with you if they want to learn more about you?

Erica Pelletro (38:32)

What gives me hope kind of goes back to the opportunity we were talking about at the very beginning. Yes, that in these disruptive, divisive times, more people than not want to lean in and be part of the solution. That's what gives me hope. And in our work, we get to work with the people who are making that happen. Whether it's at a university or a nonprofit or a foundation or a business with a good sense of purpose. There's millions of people out trying to, you know, do do good things for people on the planet, often at their local level. It's not making the headlines. Open your eyes and look around. They're all over. But I'm confident saying that your listeners working on all kinds of issues have an opportunity out there because people want to make a positive difference. And this can help you think about how to connect with them and in real ways. That's the other thing I was going to add to sort of facilitating the conversation at the organization begins with why would we do that because it's going to help us advance our mission. That's what this thing is all about. It's not trying to turn everybody into the bridge builder in their community. It's equipping you to engage with people in ways that are going to help you achieve your goals. So if folks want to learn more about that from us, we're@hattawaycommunications.com and always welcome to get emails@infohadaway.com H A T T a W a Y.

Doug Hattaway (40:00)

All right.

Doug Hattaway (40:01)

Yeah.

Julia Campbell (40:01)

And Erica, same question.

Doug Hattaway (40:05)

It's a very good question. My info is easier to answer. It's pelletro group.com and you can also. The trust playbook is on the communications network's website. But what gives me hope is, well, I'm just making it through a blizzard here in this blizzard. Yes, you are. Yes, you are. I met new neighbors shoveling. I shoveled in front of a synagogue that I don't go to. I had a very sweet exchange with the guy who runs the bodega on the corner. And this is community. This is how we show up for one another. And that is to help. And so I think that what gives me hope is knowing that community is where is community is grounding. And it's also so feeding. It's so feeding to the soul and then being able to apply kind of that good vibes in service of something that's very important to me and how I see the world is really gives me hope. And also I believe it gives hope to others in community as well.

Julia Campbell (41:17)

Yes. Oh, my gosh. That's so important. My daughter's school, every time there is a snow day, they send out an email, you know, the text message and all of it, and they always end it with as a reminder. It's part of our, our values. Help out community, check on your neighbors, shovel a driveway, bring someone's mail in.

Doug Hattaway (41:37)

It's.

Julia Campbell (41:37)

I love that they do that. I have not seen any other school district that kind of does that. So I think it's just like you said, an important reminder that we're all in community together and that we can find some common ground. So thank you both so much for being here. This was fantastic. Thank you, Julia.

Doug Hattaway (41:56)

Thank you.

Julia Campbell (42:04)

Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening

Julia Campbell (42:09)

all the way to the end.

Julia Campbell (42:10)

If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then you can find me on Instagram @JuliaCampbell77. Keep changing the world you non profit unicorn.