← Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
A Call for Transparent and Vulnerable Leadership with Sabrina Walker Hernandez
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- [00:00]
Julia Campbell
Imagine nonprofit work transformed by purpose built tools. That would mean less guessing and more connecting, less admin and more impact, less stuck and more go. With the giving platform built for purpose, you don't have to imagine Bloomerang can help you raise more funds, retain more donors, save more time, and grow stronger relationships with your supporters so you can spend time on what matters most, your mission. Want to see how over 20,000 nonprofits are using Bloomerang to raise, retain, and recruit more supporters? Well, take a free on demand tour of the giving platform today. Go to jcsocialmarketing.com bloomerang that's jcsocialmarketing.com B L O O M E R A N G okay, on to the show. Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience, and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people, and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. Hello. Hi, everyone. This is Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and today we're going to talk about transparent and vulner leadership. Now, we know leadership isn't just about strategy. It's about authenticity, empathy, and vulnerability. But in our sector, where burnout is high and resources are stretched thin, how can leaders balance transparency while maintaining strong leadership? So today I'm going to sit down with Sabrina Walker Hernandez, president and CEO of Building Better Boards, to explore how nonprofit leaders can build trust, inspire their teams, and lead with courage even in uncertain times. And Sabrina has a Harvard certification in nonprofit management. She's written eight influential ebooks and has an amazing track record of empowering over 10,000 nonprofit professionals. She is just a powerhouse in nonprofit leadership. Sabrina, thanks for coming back to the show.
- [02:49]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Thank you for having me. I am so excited to be here.
- [02:52]
Julia Campbell
Yes. So can you share a bit about your journey? I think you've been on the show. I think I was meant to look it up and I didn't. It was probably about two years ago. So some of the things that you've been working on and doing and how your business has evolved in the past few years.
- [03:07]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Yeah. So when I first started out on this journey, I really wanted to be the person who supported the small and mid sized organizations who didn't have like a corporate office because my background is I spent 20 years in boys and girls clubs and I remember having support, you know, I remember being able to reach out and get a sample document here or call another fellow CEO or log into the.net and have all these documents. Even though I had that at my fingertip, I still was stressed out. You know, stressed out, overwhelmed, sometimes overworked. And as a result, I was diagnosed with two types of blood cancers at the same time. And so in 2019, when I was going through my stem cell transplant, you get 30 days in the hospital and you only get to talk to the doctors and nurses. And my husband, he knows I am a busybody so he bought me this computer and I started researching what is the best way to support those organizations. And so I started my company. And really what I found out is first of all, it's been an evolution because what I found out is those who need us the most, coaches, people like you, people like me, they don't know that we exist. And I also remember when I sat in that seat, I didn't know that I could get a coach until I was like 15 years into the journey. And so then as I'm listening to people, people want to jump immediately to fundraising, fundraising, fundraising. But as you know, because you specialize in marketing, it's like a trifecta. It is marketing, it is fundraising and it is bored. And if you don't have those three things in place, you're not going to take your organization further. And what I realized is, yeah, I can tell you how to make a quick dollar, but that's not sustainable. And it is the board and all three of those pieces that's going to help you. But a lot of people don't know how to work with their boards. And I realized that was one of my gifts and I love working with boards. So I started out as Supporting World Hope and evolved the business last year. Focus on boards and we're building better boards. Because a part of my success, although I was stressed out, was due to when I made a change around how do I deal with my board and how do I get my board to help me in this journey because we're a team and they're part of the dream team. But oftentimes I wasn't treating them as a part of the dream team and, and I was wearing that, that hat, you know, where I got to do everything by myself because my boy do everything by myself.
- [06:05]
Julia Campbell
Yep.
- [06:05]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Because my board doesn't do anything. And, you know, so if I focus in there and I can really help people, that's what I've decided I want to do. And I serve on five boards too. Let me just say that.
- [06:16]
Julia Campbell
Yeah, I serve on five boards.
- [06:18]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
I serve on five boards. Currently I serve on two fundraising boards. I told myself I would never serve on more than one fundraising board because, you know, quid pro quo kind of thing. And if you're going to do it, you're going to do it right. But I had a great opportunity with the organization in my community that they are a 50 year old organization and I am actually the first black person on this board. And I saw it as a great opportunity. And when they interviewed me, they were very clear around why they were asking me to join. And so I just said, okay. And then the other three boards that I serve on, I give out money and one is actually a corporate advisory board. So I have a breadth of information or knowledge when it comes to dealing with boards and getting board members to do what you need them to do.
- [07:09]
Julia Campbell
Oh, absolutely. And there must be so many personalities on these various boards. But it's like the saying goes, if you want something done, ask a busy person. So I really am out.
- [07:21]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
And how to get it done.
- [07:23]
Julia Campbell
You talk, and we're going to talk today about transparent, empathetic and vulnerable leadership. Why do you think these traits are so important for nonprofit boards?
- [07:33]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
They're important for nonprofit boards and, and nonprofit CEOs in general. Because, look, when you are a board member on a nonprofit board, you said yes. You said yes to giving of your time. You said yes to giving of your talent. You said yes. And this is what I want nonprofit CEOs to walk away with. The part of it is my assumption is you are a good person because you said yes. And so because you're a good person and you said yes and you have that empathy and you want to do good and you're coming in this and the lack of being told or educated in what to do. You come in with your assumptions on what it means to be a good board member. So you're acting out of that place of I want to be here and I want to do a good job. And if you don't tell me what a good job is, then I'm going to do the job that I think I'm supposed to do. And that's where you get the micromanagement and that's where you get the sometimes even bullying you. You mentioned personality that's where you get the. The crossing boundaries. And so you have to understand that as a CEO dealing with a board member and as a board member dealing with other board members, you have to be willing to say, hey, you know, full transparency here. This is my first board that I ever served on.
- [08:59]
Julia Campbell
Right. It's a scary thing to say sometimes.
- [09:02]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
It is.
- [09:02]
Julia Campbell
It's a scary thing to say.
- [09:04]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Or you could say, full transparency. I've served on the board before, but, you know, they didn't ask a lot of me, or, I don't know, it would help me if I had a orientation to find out what the expectations are. And so we have to realize that. I think people assume that they're board members and they know what they're doing automatically without no education, no recruitment process, no conversation, none of that. And so I often tell frustrated CEOs and frustrated board chairs, you're complaining about the board and you're complaining about even this individual. What have you done to educate them? Right. Preachers give them an orientation. Was there a recruitment process or did you run into them at a. At a restaurant and say, hey, I serve on this board. Good. And they showed up and you're like, hey, welcome to the board. Usually when I ask those questions like that, I get crickets. And sometimes I'll just say, okay, Sabrina, they're not in the space to hear what their role was in this conversation.
- [10:11]
Julia Campbell
Right?
- [10:12]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
In the situation.
- [10:13]
Julia Campbell
Right, Exactly. I. I think that happens so often that we recruit board members or we talk to board members and we say, oh, it's not going to be any work. It's not really hard. You're not. The meetings aren't very long. It's not a heavy lift. And then we set them up almost. We. We don't set the expectation of what the work is. So how can we be better on our end as development directors or executive directors, in sort of setting these expectations, like being authentic and vulnerable, but also still being sort of assertive in what we need from board members?
- [10:53]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
I think that when you were talking about being, you know, authentic is not being disingenuous when it comes to recruiting board members. I have had so many people say, we don't want to talk to them about fundraising because that's going to scare them away. And I'm like, but you're setting them up for failure. And not only are you setting them up for failure, you're setting yourself up for failure because you're going to get frustrated. And when they walk into that first board meeting, what is the first Thing you're going to talk about. You're going to talk about fundraising.
- [11:29]
Julia Campbell
Yeah. And financials. I mean, that's really one of their main responsibilities.
- [11:33]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Yes. And they're going to be blindsided, and then they're going to build a little resentment and they're going to sit there and they're going to be like, nobody told me. Nobody told me that. And it's going to take them a long time to even feel confident to say anything. And they're going to lean into, you know, talk about being vulnerable, and they're going to lean into their own understanding. So, for example, if you bought me onto your board, there was no orientation. First of all, let me just be very clear. I ain't coming on your board if there's no board interview process. You know, you got to have your stuff together, because like you said, busy people get things done. And so the questions that I asked is, when is the meeting? Why are you asking me to be on this board? How much do I need to fundraise? I know what I'm looking for. Most people are not in that position. And so when they say yes, because, you know, Julia, I like Julia, she asked me to be on this board. And then they show up to that first meeting and then they're looking around and they're sitting there, it's going to take them a good year to even feel confident to voice anything. At the same time, you're judging them because you thought, I bought on Julia because she know all these people and she was going to ask all these people for money. And you're getting frustrated. You're not even thinking about how you bought Julian. You ain't told Julian that you assume Julia know how to fundraise. You're not thinking of any of that, and you're not leading with the empathy. You're just leading from frustration.
- [13:05]
Julia Campbell
No, I agree. And I actually just spoke with a board member the other day who wanted to bring me on to do social media marketing. But the real issue, I think, was that he did not have a very good grasp of the organization, what they were doing. I was asking a lot of questions and saying, you know, he was thinking social media was kind of like most people do, the silver bullet that's just going to sort of get them, you know, answer all their prayers. But when I asked more and more questions, you know, I really thought, oh, I need to talk to the executive director. And they are not talking to each other, and they were asking me totally separate questions, and they were not, like, on the same page. About this at all. So what kind of strategies can we use to navigate maybe like a difficult conversation with the board or like an uncomfortable situation that might be occurring?
- [14:00]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Well, you know, if it's an uncomfortable situation, first of all, I. I'm always about being proactive. That's one. Being proactive. Yeah.
- [14:08]
Julia Campbell
Don't let it fester.
- [14:09]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Don't let it fester. Set up systems and processes where. And I know that sounds really sterile, but it is set up the process where. In the situation where you were talking about board chair and CEO talking totally different languages. Well, that wouldn't happen if you were proactive. Meet with your board chair outside of the board meeting. Once a month, everybody has to eat, everybody has to go to lunch or breakfast. Take the time to do that. Talk about the good, talk about the bad, talk about the ugly. You're on the journey together. Build that real human connection. And you could. You will have a partner in this journey. Oftentimes, what I see is we will only call upon our board members. Most times it's like monthly meeting.
- [15:06]
Julia Campbell
That's it.
- [15:07]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Right. Is engagement in the boardroom. There might be one or two times you might pick up the phone and call the board chair or a particular board member, but you're not being intentional and leading with that human side of leadership and making those genuine connections and making them feel like they are part of this journey with you. So you have to be proactive when we're talking about this authentic leadership. At the end of the day, when really talk about marketing, board, fundraising, it's all about people, people, people. And so how are you connecting with people? And are you self aware to say, you know, I had to become self aware. I was doing a training yesterday and it was on boards and you know how you. It was online and people have comments and they can put comments in them. Yeah. So I had this one particular person and she kept saying, well, we tried that and that doesn't work.
- [16:06]
Julia Campbell
Oh, yep, yep, yep, yep.
- [16:09]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Yeah, I know that. Yeah. And so we just stopped and oh, we tried that. And no, that's not going to CEOs. Your job is to be a cheerleader for your board. And if the energy you're bringing into the boardroom is this is not going to work and I'm just frustrated and I'm tired. Them, they're reading your energy.
- [16:30]
Julia Campbell
Yes.
- [16:31]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
And so you have to be self aware of the energy you're bringing into the room. And when you come into that room, into that meeting, are you sucking that energy out? Are you bringing real motivating energy into the room. And I can tell you, just after reading her questions and finding a solution to, you know, what's that saying that people will find a problem. For every solution that you have, you'll.
- [17:00]
Julia Campbell
Find a nail for a hammer. Like, you'll find it if you have a hammer. You'll find a nail.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
That's right. That was what I was getting. And if I was getting that from her in that small interaction, imagine how her board members feel. So what's going to happen? They don't show up because they don't want to deal with that. They don't want to deal with that negative.
- [17:21]
Julia Campbell
No one wants to deal with that.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
No one wants to deal with that. I'm not going to be inspired to fundraise your job. Part of that is to be a cheerleader, and you have to be self aware. Look, all of us are not going to be cheerleaders. I get that. But that's what your board need. So for that amount of time that you're in the room with them, be the cheerleader. Mm.
- [17:45]
Julia Campbell
I think that you can be authentic and vulnerable in that situation where if you're very frustrated at a board meeting, just be honest. I know that's really difficult. What are some strategies that you would recommend? Like if. If a board. If an executive director, if a nonprofit leader is in that position where the board is just like, throwing ideas at them or the board is knocking down ideas, or it's just like getting to be very stressful and, you know, you feel like you're going to burn out and you're going to say something.
- [18:16]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Yeah.
- [18:17]
Julia Campbell
What are some. How do we be honest in that situation, but also how do we still maintain, like, our sanity?
- [18:23]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Okay, here's the thing. And this is a strategy that I've learned, and I want to make sure that other people use this. There's at least one board member that can be your board champion. And that's where the people, in developing those authentic relationships, reach out to your board champion and share with them. This is what I'm feeling. This is how I want to move this organization forward. And I realize that coming from me, the board is not hearing it, but you as a board member are respected. I need you to be the voice when we bring this up. That's how I got bored giving on my board. I inherited an organization that had zero board giving and actually zero individual giving. And yeah, I could have went in like gangbusters. And I tried, but won't nobody listening to me. I'm gonna be very Honest with you. So I had to pause and start building those relationships with board members and a couple of individual board members in my board chair. And it wasn't my board chair that bought in the idea, you know, presented the idea of board giving. It was my board champion. I had. I will always. I had a board. So when I first inherited my board, I had a board of 12. Then we grew that board.
- [19:42]
Julia Campbell
That sounds large to me.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Yeah, well, it was 12. And then we grew it to 21.
- [19:46]
Julia Campbell
Wow.
- [19:47]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
And so out of that, I usually had no. No less than two, no more than three board champions. And when I say board champions, these are people I went to lunch with weekly. These are people who I visited their homes. These are people who I eventually was invited to 50th wedding anniversaries and birthday parties and, like, building that real authentic relationship. And these were the people who had my back. They were the ones when we started talking about board giving, they were the mouth for that conversation. Anything that was kind of controversial or I thought we were going to have some resistance to, I would talk to my champions about it and say, hey, this is where I'm at. This is what I need you to do. And they would present and they would do the leg work with the board.
- [20:41]
Julia Campbell
I love that.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
And so when you know that you can go in and not get as frustrated as you sometimes can. And I don't want to think that. I don't want you to think also that I was perfect. Look, I was one of the ones that was complaining about my board. And I remember this very clear. And I remember I speak his name. His name is Patrick Wynn. He's the CEO of the Boys and Girls Club of leaving North Alabama in Huntsville. He's even North Alabama, South Alabama, but it's in Huntsville. And I remember being with him and I remember saying something like, my board won't let me do that. And I've heard that, I quote, my.
- [21:18]
Julia Campbell
Boy board won't let me.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Okay? And he was like, he stopped me. He goes, what do you mean your board won't let you? And I was like, well, my board won't let me. He goes, you're the boss.
- [21:31]
Julia Campbell
Yes.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
I was like, oh, oh, yeah. He goes, your board is waiting on you. And I was like, oh, okay, my board is waiting on me. And then I can't remember. And that, that hit me and I started processing. And then I also talk about self awareness in this authentic leadership. That hit me. And then I had a conversation with someone else, and they said, your job as the CEO because I was early on in my journey is to take care of the money and to take care of the board. I was again frustrated. I don't have enough time in the day. Putting out fires every day, blah, blah, blah. You know, we heard this all the time and they stopped me. Your job is to take care of the board and take care of the money. Where are you spending your time? We all have the same amount of hours. Where are you spending your time? And I had to become self aware. Aware. I was spending my time where I felt comfortable. I was not focused on building the skill set that I needed to manage my board or help them grow. I was spending my time in program, girl.
- [22:46]
Julia Campbell
Right?
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Because that's what I loved. You have to become self aware. And are you spending your time in program because that's what you love because that's why you got into this, right? You're passionate about the mission and that's where you want to be. That's not their passion. They might be spending their time dealing with staff or spending their time dealing with whatever it is, but you got to become real self aware of where you're spending your time. And as a CEO of the nonprofit organization is with your board. Take care of the board, take care of the money, and you're the boss. Those three things changed my life.
- [23:21]
Julia Campbell
I love that. Oh, I can just hear people like it resonating with people. Just hear them like whether they're driving or what they're doing right now. So what advice would you give to leaders that want to improve their emotional intelligence but they don't know really where to start?
- [23:38]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Oh, there's so much information out there. I am still an avid reader around everything books. I know, like when I say reader, you know how we do it.
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Julia Campbell
What are you reading? I want to know what's. What's on your.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
I got that audio book right now reading the. The Thin Book on Trust and it's really good. It talks about care. Why is mistrust? Why do we have mistrust? And when you do have mistrust, is it around care? Is it around sincerity? I'm in the process of reading it, so I might get some of it wrong. I might not remember all of it, but care, sincerity, confidence. And then there's one more. So I'm in the middle of reading that one because when we say we mistrust people, it's generally around again. Are you. Do you mistrust that they care? Do you mistrust that they are being sincere? What is it that you're mistrusting and then you get to. Or do you mistrust. Right. I think I'm on competency right now. Do you mistrust that they. They can't do the job? And when you can narrow that down, then you can have a conversation about that piece. But what happens, and it's very interesting, what happens if when we say, well, we don't trust that person, then it becomes this blanket. We don't trust anything about.
- [24:59]
Julia Campbell
Oh, that's true. True.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Right. We don't, like, figure out what is it that I don't trust about them and then have that difficult conversation with them about that specific thing. Usually what we do is we do a blanket. Well, I don't trust them. I don't know what it is, but I don't trust them. And then we avoid them. We don't deal with them. We do all the things to alienate them instead of dealing with that issue and bringing it to their attention. I know it's hard and scary and that's. So that's the one book I'm reading right now, the Thin Book of Trust. It is by. And it got recommended to me because in working with teams and working with CEOs and working with their boards, a lot of it is that trust factor. Yes, absolutely.
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Julia Campbell
If that isn't there, you can't really work with people.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
You really can't work with people. You don't trust them and they don't trust you and they don't trust maybe your competence or you don't think that they care or any of those things. It is going to erode the trust and it's going to be a mistrust and it's going to be not about that specific thing, but about everything. Oh, I just don't trust them.
- [26:07]
Julia Campbell
You know, I think it's so interesting because I've worked with people where I would trust them with like the financials and I would trust them with reporting, but I wouldn't trust them to, like, be on time to something, you know, or I wouldn't trust them to, like, pick up the right balloons for the event or talk to the donor in the right way. So it's interesting because there are certain levels of, like, you would trust them with certain things but not trust them with others. And like, how can we, how can we get beyond, you know, beyond that and have these conversations or. Yeah. Express our need for this trust. How do we build a culture of trust?
- [26:46]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
I just want to clarify that. It's called the Thin Book of Trust and it's By Charles Feltman.
- [26:50]
Julia Campbell
Just. Okay, I will put it in the show. Notes. Yeah.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
So you know how. How do you build trust? The basic things that. Well, I want to say the basic things that we grew up with because here's. That's the assumption that we all grew up with that. That way. Right. Doing what you say you're going to do, keeping your commitments, all of those things, or those basic two things is how you build trust. And when those are not happening, having the strength of character to go and have a conversation with the person as opposed to retaining that information in your heart and judging them for it. And they don't even know.
- [27:37]
Julia Campbell
Right. So won't even know.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
They won't know. How do you fix something if you don't know?
- [27:42]
Julia Campbell
Exactly. Oh, my gosh. We tend to think people are mind readers and. Yeah. And they're definitely, definitely not.
- [27:50]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
And I mean, of course, if you're not comfortable with having tough conversations. There's also a book called you know how to have tough conversations.
- [27:57]
Julia Campbell
Yes.
- [27:59]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
There's a book like, why didn't I say that? I literally have that book on my shelf too. Because I'm not a conflict person. And so when I knew I had to have a difficult conversation, I had a book that I. And it carries you through different. Julia. It's so funny. Love that it carries you through different scenarios. Like say this. This is what they're going to say. How do you respond to that? That person? I know who I am. That's my self awareness. I don't like difficult conversations. And so I have. I do books. You asked me also, you know, I do the audiobooks. I love Masterclass.
- [28:33]
Julia Campbell
I love Masterclass.
- [28:34]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Oh, absolutely love it. There's a new app that I downloaded too, that's called Lola. Lola. Okay, Lola. L O L A. And so I am an avid learner. And if, you know, if you're self aware and you know that there are gaps in your emotional intelligence or gaps.
- [28:57]
Julia Campbell
In just a skill set.
- [28:58]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
I am a true believer of developing yourself. Now, here's the deal. Going back to leadership and organization, you need to budget for professional development, and it needs to be for you, your staff and your board. I had a $32,000 budget for professional development. Now my organization budget was about 2.5 million. That's still small, but it's more than what most people budget for professional development. And my board went to conferences. My board went to. We had a national conference, a regional conference, we had statewide meetings. If you wanted to be board chair of our organization, you had to have attended a national conference. You had to have gone through a series of professional development. It was an honor to serve on our board. That is how I got to Harvard Business School is because my. My board believed in. And it wasn't always like that. It's a journey. But we believed in professional development, and we budgeted for it. You have paid off. It paid off. When I inherited the organization, we had a $750,000 budget. When I left the organization, we had a $2.5 million budget. Invest in your people, and your people is the board. And when you say, well, they won't let me put money in the budget for professional development, then you need to be having conversations with your champions. You need to be having conversations with your board chair. You need to present to them why it's important, how you've seen organizations grow because they have invested in professional development. And then when they do, invest in it, show the results. Leadership, again, is a journey. And I know everybody's not in the same space, but you have to start off with being compassionate with your board members. We talked about that. You have to start off about being transparent and let your board chair know the good, the bad, the ugly. Let your board champions know the good, the bad, the ugly. And you have to be authentic. Authentic enough to know who you are and what your, you know, your weaknesses and strengths are. Authentic enough to be able to communicate when you ask someone to join your board, that it will entail fundraising. And you will not be that person who say, I don't want to talk about fundraising, because that's going to scare them off and then get frustrated.
- [31:36]
Julia Campbell
Right.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Come on your board and don't want to talk about fundraising.
- [31:40]
Julia Campbell
I know that's the big sticking point. I do think for a lot of boards, especially, you know, ones that I hear from, I work on, you know, the marketing side mostly, but it sort of bleeds into fundraising. And people say, well, my board is not a working board. My board is not a fundraising board. And I think, you know, you build. You build it. And if you start saying things like that out loud, then there's a really big problem. Then you're almost like, manifesting it.
- [32:07]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
That's one of the most. I never heard that until I started doing this. I honestly never heard that. My board is not a fundraising board. It's a working board. All boards are fundraising boards. You got three jobs, you got three things you need to do as a board. Trusteeship, oversight. And oversight doesn't mean telling people what to do. Oversight means, I have a plan. And we're going to manage this plan. Right. And then ensuring necessary resources. That's. That's it. And it fundraising comes up on an ensuing. Necessary resources.
- [32:39]
Julia Campbell
Yeah.
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Sabrina Walker Hernandez
So there is, I don't know where this concept of working board and fundraising board came from other than to make CEOs of boards who was not fundraising feel better about themselves.
- [32:52]
Julia Campbell
Yes, exactly, exactly. I think just the uncomfortable nature of having conversations about money, I mean, there's all sorts of implications around that. I mean this has really been, this has been so fantastic. Sabrina, where can I know you have so many resources on your website? Tell us where people can find you, connect with you, find some of your amazing resources and I'll, I'll put all the links in the show notes as well.
- [33:17]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Okay, good. I'm gonna. You know what they say? They say, well, you taught me this. Get one call to action, girl. Get one.
- [33:23]
Julia Campbell
Yeah, I know. I, I'm pretty bad at that. I always give like a bunch. But yes, give us the call to action.
- [33:29]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Go to my website building betterboards.com and from there you can get any downloadables. I have all of that. And you can connect with me on social media where I will say for social media platforms, I hang out on LinkedIn. So that's where you'll find me the most in my most updated conversations per se. But you know, go to buildingbetterboards.com find me there and you can reach, get all the goodies from there.
- [33:59]
Julia Campbell
Are you speaking at any conferences? I probably won't be, but let us know where your will be.
- [34:05]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Yeah, yeah, I am going to be speaking at a couple of conferences. I am, girl, you know, time is one of those things. But I know in July, July 24th through the 26th, I will be in Williamsburg, Virginia.
- [34:20]
Julia Campbell
Oh, I love Williamsburg. Actually, I do too.
- [34:23]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
I grew up on the east coast. I was born in Norfolk. I love going to Williamsburg. I'm a history buff. Why? I said yes to the historical museum. I love it. History was my minor in college. So I'm so excited about going to Williamsburg. It's a fundraising conference and I can't wait. I was like, oh. When they asked me and they, they, they agreed and I was going to be a keynote, I was like, okay, so do they still do the historical reenactments? Yeah, that life. I am that girl.
- [34:51]
Julia Campbell
Love it.
- [34:51]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
I am that girl. So it's the Virginia Fundraising Conference. It's in Williamsburg, is July 24th through the 26th. It's a two day conference. It's going to be myself. I know Myself and Rachel. Miro. Miro. Oh yes, the person that's speaking at that. So it's going to be a good one. It is open for registration. Mail.
- [35:14]
Julia Campbell
Perfect. Wonderful. Well, if you're near Virginia. Also, I lived in Norfolk, Virginia. I don't know if we've ever talked about this. I went to Old Dominion University for my Masters.
- [35:26]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
I was born in Norfolk, but I grew up and never heard of this. But I'm going to say it anyway. Woohoo. Shout it out. I grew up in Freeman, Virginia.
- [35:35]
Julia Campbell
Okay.
- [35:36]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Which is Brunswick County, Virginia. Never ringing a bell. Lawrenceville, Virginia. Emperor, Virginia. Yeah, it's all rural, dirt road, that kind of thing.
- [35:47]
Julia Campbell
I love my time there and I. I did love Williamsburg. I'm going to check out the conference and building better boards dot com.
- [35:55]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Yes ma' am.
- [35:56]
Julia Campbell
And Sabrina, this has been so wonderful. I know people are going to be taking notes and have so many questions for you, so I know they're going to connect with you online. And just thank you so much for your energy, your enthusiasm, your authenticity and your wisdom.
- [36:11]
Sabrina Walker Hernandez
Thank you.
- [36:18]
Julia Campbell
Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get not new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then you can find me on Instagram @JuliaCampbell77. Keep changing the world, you non profit unicorn.