← Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
How Boards Can Lead through Turbulent Times with Christal Cherry
00:33:42
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- [00:00]
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- [00:58]
Julia Campbell
Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice definitive, grow your audience, and effectively build your movement. If you're a non profit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started.
- [01:47]
Bloomerang Ad
Hello everyone. Welcome. Welcome back to Nonprofit Nation with your host, Julia Campbell. And today we have an incredibly important topic and an incredible guest for you. The topic is how boards can lead through turbulent times. And we know that in times of uncertainty, whether due to political shifts or economic downturns or crises, so strong nonprofit boards are more essential than ever. But how can boards step up, adapt and lead with equity, inclusion and power sharing at the forefront? And in this episode, I sit down with my friend Crystal Cherry, principal and CEO of the Board Pro, to explore how boards can navigate challenges, build resilience, and foster leadership. And Crystal brings years of experience, coaching and training boards training. She's passionate about ensuring boards reflect the communities they serve. And we're going to discuss the biggest mistakes boards make during times of crisis. How to create a culture of trust, power dynamics, all sorts of incredible, amazing things. I can't wait to dive in. So, Krystal, thank you so much for being here.
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Crystal Cherry
Hey, Julia, thanks for having me back. I'm excited to have this conversation.
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Bloomerang Ad
Yes. So welcome back to the show. Can you tell us a little bit about your background? What inspired you to focus on nonprofit board leadership?
- [03:16]
Crystal Cherry
Yeah. So as you know, I'm a Recovering fundraiser and was working in the field for, I don't know, 20 years or so, working with all types of nonprofits, small, mid sized, education, human services, the whole nine. And had an opportunity to interact with lots of boards. Also worked as a consultant where I had an opportunity to go in and work with boards. And so I understood some of their challenges. I realized that a lot of them have not been equipped and just not really sure what the power is that they have in order for them to make effective changes. So I just thought this was the area that I can play in and be effective and make real change.
- [03:55]
Bloomerang Ad
Now we know, I mean, nonprofits in general, the nonprofit, the sector boards are dealing with a lot right now. There's political drama, there's financial ups and downs, there's increasing public scrutiny. So what's changing the most in how boards operate and how can they keep up without getting left behind?
- [04:18]
Crystal Cherry
Yeah. Well, let's hope boards are operating a little differently in uncertain times, Right. They're frozen and not doing anything, right?
- [04:24]
Bloomerang Ad
I think so. I mean, they're just like dealing headlights.
- [04:27]
Crystal Cherry
Yes. And I think some boards are really doing a good job. So for example, I serve on a board of a nonprofit here in Atlanta and we have been really meeting with the executive director on a consistent basis. And more and more news from the White House comes out, right. To making sure that all those things are being discussed. Any questions that she may have, she's keeping us a prize of laws that might impact, you know, our funding and whether or not we're going to have to cut some of our programs. And so as a board, we got together and really did some real deep digging to be a thought partners with her and came up with three different scenarios that might occur because of some of the funding cuts that might happen. And so we came up with what will we do in this particular scenario? How will we respond? What program might have to get cut? And if so, how will we relay this news to the public and to our funders? What will we do if this scenario happens and we have to unhouse some people because we're a shelter. Right. Because we can't afford to pay their rents anymore. Right. And what will we do in this particular situation? So I think really sitting down and really going through your programs, going through your budget, if we have to cut staff, what will that look like? How will we talk to them about it? How do we keep staff calm? I think the biggest thing is how do we remain calm even when we may feel uncertain? Modeling leadership and modeling calm, even in Times when we're not sure what's going on as well. But that's what being a leader is. Right. And so I think in this particular case, we've done a good job of trying to cover our bases. We have a little savings, we have a little cushion, and when might we have to tap into that? So all of those things are things that we've discussed already and really being thought partners with the CEO. And I think a lot of boards are not doing that.
- [06:14]
Bloomerang Ad
Exactly. I think a lot of boards are, like you said, maybe putting their heads in the sand or holding all of their cars really close to their chest. I think they are afraid of even upsetting the apple cart even further. How can we convince them that this is not the time to, like, go dark and to stop communicating with donors?
- [06:37]
Crystal Cherry
Yeah, I mean, I think just educating them and to keep talking to them. And certainly when I'm meeting with my clients, I talk to them. You have to be in every room, have to be present. You have to be willing to talk about the work that your organization is doing. Tell people why you've opted to serve on this board, what this mission means to you. Focus on impact, impact, impact. And so I keep telling my clients, make sure your boards have impact. All of the stories, the videos, the compelling stories, the testimonies, so that when they're out talking to people, their networks, the people who are funders, the people who they have connections with, that they are armed with the information that they need in order for them to sell and promote impact. So I think that's one of the biggest things that I'm telling people. Know your stuff. Know the ecosystem that your organization is in, Know what crisis might occur because of what's happening, and know how you're going to find a solution to. To address that crisis in the event it happens.
- [07:30]
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Let's talk about dei. I mean, we'll yell it from the rooftops. I'm not ashamed to say dei, Diversity, Equity, Inclusion. Where I live, on the school board that I serve on, we have deib. So diversity, Equity, Inclusion and Belonging. Now, so much has been said in the news and in the headlines, and we know DEI is so much more than just a talking point. And whether or not we rephrase it, I've heard there's been some talk about rephrasing it or using different terms, but boards are really struggling, I think, to keep the momentum going that they have had because there's so much pushback. How, in your opinion, can boards stay committed to diversity and inclusion? Like, even when it's uncomfortable.
- [08:18]
Crystal Cherry
Well, let's first acknowledge the. Not all boards even embrace dei.
- [08:23]
Bloomerang Ad
That's true.
- [08:23]
Crystal Cherry
Right. Even when it was hot trendy, a lot of boards still hadn't embraced it. But I think now, I think a lot of organizations are trying to figure how do we word Smith things on our website, how do we change, you know, images in our, in our collateral. Right. So that we're not offending people. I just told people to stay true to your mission, stay true to who you are, and don't get caught up in words and language. So you don't may not say diversity, equity, inclusion, but just keep doing the work, keep serving people that you've served and don't get caught up in language. I think that's what the message is, is keep doing the work. Look at your mission, remember who you're serving, all the communities that you're serving, that you're having impact. And this is what your donors and your funders have said. We want to support these communities. And so if you pull back from that, if you change, you know, I've had clients that say, well, we're going to roll back some of our services that we offer to the LGBTQ population or transgender, really, now it's time to do that. You're a social justice organization and that's a decision that you've made. Exactly. So how is that going to land right? And so I think really, really taking into consideration who is it that your funders have said we're supporting, we're supporting you, we're writing grants, we're giving you money, we're giving you funds because you support those communities. And, and so if you roll back and push away from them, then you might risk losing the people who have been supporting you. These are the times for us for you to really lean into your values, to determine who you are. Are you just a performer? Right. Or are you authentic? Are you really about making the change that you say you wanted to make? Are you just doing, Is this performative for you? I think this is the time for us to all take a look in the mirror and say, despite what's happening in other places, who am I? Who are we as an organization? Who are we as a board?
- [10:13]
Bloomerang Ad
Which side of history do we want to be on? And I agree with you. And I think what's so hard for boards, just in my experience, you know, being a development director, having worked with boards, is that sometimes they are removed from the day to day programs. Oftentimes they are, like, in the trenches, like doing the work. If It's a smaller organization, but a larger organization there might be in business, they might be sitting on corporate boards. They might be listening to other conversations. And it is so important for us, if we're fundraisers, if we're marketers, if we are nonprofit executive directors, to remind them, like you said, who are we? What do we stand for? And by the way, every single mission is uncomfortable. It doesn't matter. I always say this. If you want to save the apples, someone is going to get mad at you for not saving the oranges. It doesn't matter your mission. There's always going to be pushback. There's always going to be something that's uncomfortable. But I agree with you. Right now, we need to look in the mirror and say, who are we? What do we stand for? What are we doing? And we need to almost double down on our advocacy and helping our clients and helping our, you know, the people that we serve and stand for really fill like we have their backs. You've written about and you teach about, you talk about and you train boards on the importance of diversity in terms of the internal makeup of the board. So why do you think so many boards still lack representation? You know, and, you know, what can we do to change that?
- [11:48]
Crystal Cherry
Yeah, And I want to double click on what you just said about not being proximate to mission, because I think that often. Okay, Case. And that is because so many of our board members are not proximate to the communities that they actually serve. Right. And how many times have I asked board members, have you actually been down to the community center? Have you been to the shelter? Have you read books to the children after school? Have you visited with the veterans? And then they've said no. And I'm thinking, how can you be on this board making decisions about these people? And you've not actually been in the rooms with them? So a lot of organizations who are considering different governance models will have individuals. Particularly large organizations will say, we'll have individuals who will come in and they'll be a governing board. They'll make sure all of our I's are dotted and T's across. They'll make sure our budget is right. They'll make sure the performance evaluation happens for the executive director. Our 990 is filed. All the things that we have to do on paper is done. And then the people who are really doing the work are the people who are on the committees who don't have to be board members. We can create an advisory committee. We can have committees where we invite people who are proximate to the work, who are boots on the ground, who are actually interacting and engaging with those communities to serve on committees, to serve on an advisory council, who are actually making decisions on a day to day basis and letting the board sit high and making sure the organization does all of the legality things that it has to do to serve the board, but really making sure that we put the people who have boots on the ground, who know what's going on in those communities in charge of making those decisions. Now if you're not going to do that, I think making sure that you are recruiting from those communities. And that's been the challenge. Right. Because we have found that board members are usually recruiting from their own personal networks. And if you're a white male or white female and you don't have proximity to or have friends or colleagues from other communities, it's difficult for you to find them. And that's why you have to be intentional about creating, casting a wide net about finding individuals from those communities who really are passionate about your work and qualified to serve on your.
- [13:49]
Bloomerang Ad
Let's talk about sort of the elephant in the room, which is fundraising. So I know you are an expert and we agree on so many things in terms of boards and fundraising, but fundraising can really be a huge challenge, especially right now. Turbulent times, which. Tell me a time when it's not turbulent. I really want a non turbulent time right now. It feels like a little excessive. A little excessive turbulence. But what advice do you have for boards trying to keep funding stable? And what's the board's role in making sure the nonprofit stays financially strong?
- [14:29]
Crystal Cherry
Well, the first thing they have to do is make their own gift. You can be involved with this organization and on this board advocating for its mission and you've not made a donation. And I mean a donation of any size. If you can only give 50 now, give 50 now. Right. And then get throughout the year. But you cannot be advocating for this organization. And you've not personally given. They need your, they need your buy in. So for lots of reasons. And then I tell people to dig deep and pull in their networks. People have relationships, family relationships, colleague relationships, peer relationships with people who have connections and who have resources and who can make introductions. And we don't even realize that we do. And so one of the things I, you know, one of the exercises that, that I do with people is really start pulling it. Pull out your phone, man, let's see who's in your phone. And you start realizing I do have connections. I know people who work at this foundation. I know people who work at Home Depot. My cousin works, she's general counsel for Delta. You know, whatever we start realizing we had, this is a time for you to dig deep and thinking, who can I call in these times of crisis? We really need support right now. Who have we not considered who could possibly support? And we know that making those introductions is vital. Right? And so having you in this space where you say, not only am I willing to be your champion and be your connector and your advocate, but I'm willing to, to connect you with people who I know can bring people into the fold, whether it's in kind, whether it's volunteers, whether it's cash, whether it's non cash assets, whatever it is, you have connections that you don't even think about that could probably help your organization. And so getting people to really dig deep and then to support, if you are blessed to have a fundraising team or fundraising director to make sure that he or she has the resources that they need, pay them adequately, the software is up to date to make sure there's a travel fund that they need to travel, to go meet with the, like, give them the resources they need, the software, all the AI stuff, make sure all that is at their fingertips so they can adequately go out and.
- [16:30]
Bloomerang Ad
Do to do the work, set them up for success. That's really important because I do think that a lot of development directors right now think that they can't be necessarily acting or advocating or asking for more resources just because of the state of funding and the state of turmoil and the state of probably the executive director and the board is incredibly stressed out. But I think having the board advocate so kind of from the top down is so much more impactful. And it's really also just a motivating tool to show the fundraising team that, you know, they really have their support and that they're, they're on their side and that fundraising is important right now. That's something that I have seen is should we be fundraising right now? Are we fund like, what are we doing? Are we being honest about funding cuts? Are we staying out of the fray? What is one thing that boards or fundraising staff should be doing right now to communicate with their donors about fundraising struggles?
- [17:38]
Crystal Cherry
I think being transparent and admitting when things are not going necessarily the way that you want, I mean, certainly sharing your wins and when things are going well, but even being honest with them and saying we are being impacted by federal cuts, we're being impacted by funders, even private funders, saying, we're not sure if we're going to fund anything right now. Like, we need to be honest and say that we've been impacted in a way that might stifle our ability to continue providing services, to give support, to do the research or whatever it is that your organization is doing. We are in crisis. There might be a time where we might be able to fulfill our mission. And we cannot rely as we see on federal funding and as private as our only source of income. So now is the time for us to diversify. What other ways can we be creative? Are we really capitalizing on peer to peer? Are we really digging into individuals, instituting a monthly recurring giving program like all the other things that we know we need to do to supplement when the federal cuts happen, when the federal funding is being withheld, or the Walmart who's been given to you for 10 years decides they're not going to get to you anymore, what else are you going to rely on?
- [18:45]
Bloomerang Ad
Right, exactly. No, I agree with that. You talked, we mentioned about tools. So a question I have for you. You know, AI and digital tools are really shaking up all of the work that we do, and donor expectations are changing. So how can boards embrace this kind of innovation without losing sight of the mission and the personal touch that makes us so impactful?
- [19:12]
Crystal Cherry
I think first, you know, ascertaining what the needs of the organization is, even if you know what kind of AI would be helpful and not being scared of it, it's not, you know, it's not the magical fix for everything, but it's certainly helpful. It helps to streamline for us to be more efficient, Even the board itself and how it operates. Using AI to record its own meetings. Right. Making sure that minutes are done quickly and fastly and you can send those minutes right out to the board right after the meeting happens, as opposed to waiting for a secretary to type them up and make sure they're like making sure that you even use AI to help you govern as a board, but certainly making sure that if there's AI that's going to make communicating with funders more efficient and effective. We certainly want to make sure our organization is doing, make sure there are policies in place to protect donor information, making sure there are policies in place to make sure that that knows how to use AI efficiently. And so not running from it, but embracing it, but learning how it can best help you do a better job than what you've been doing. And I think a lot of organizations are now starting to do that. But boards are a little risen because technology is always a little daunting to them. And once we show them that it will really help make our jobs better, that they. They're more interested in making sure the resources are there.
- [20:27]
Bloomerang Ad
Exactly. I think that for a lot of boards, it's the same with social media, which is something that I teach organizations about. Boards tend to be the sort of stalwart or the firewall that says, well, I'm not sure if we should be on this platform or it's, it's actually helpful, I think, for boards to be cautious in that way. But like you said, how can we, you know, sort of ask the right questions, but make sure that we're using these tools to do our jobs more efficiently and effectively? And I sit on the school board, I'm not on a nonprofit board right now. And we use ChatGPT for our minutes to distill like 75 page PDFs, you know, sometimes into bullet points. I know that I personally use it a lot to take feedback from citizens and kind of put it into a form and see what are the most asked questions, you know, what are some of the things that are bubbling up in the community. So it's just different ways to save time and like you said, do your job more effectively.
- [21:33]
Crystal Cherry
And I think it's balancing it out with human touch. We know automation makes, you know, you can say thank you quickly, you can do all the things, but you don't want to replace, you know, me actually calling you and saying thank you. Right. We don't want to replace the things that we know works, that, that builds relationships. I think that could be the reticence to some more just automating things so that people don't feel the personal connection to the organization. And I think balancing that out is really important.
- [21:57]
Bloomerang Ad
So if there's a nonprofit leader listening and feeling stuck, feeling overwhelmed, and they're really unsure of how to engage their board effectively, what is the first step they should take?
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Crystal Cherry
Well, first you gotta meet with them.
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Bloomerang Ad
What if they say, oh, our board does not a working board.
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Crystal Cherry
Well, you know, I always hold both. Yeah. A nonprofit and the board accountable. So if they're not a working board, are you giving them work to do?
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Bloomerang Ad
Right.
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Crystal Cherry
Because a lot of boards don't know what they're supposed.
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Bloomerang Ad
Exactly. They don't. They don't come in just knowing.
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Crystal Cherry
Yeah. And so it is a responsibility of the organization to give them things to do. Even after the board meeting, because you come in, you sit in the board meeting, you might take a few notes, you approve a couple of budgets and then you close the zoom room or you leave, get in your car and. And then you don't think about it again until the next board meeting. So it's your job to engage them in between with the newsletters and the updates and if you had tasks to be done, asking them for their opinion and their counsel, asking them to step in to come to the gala to meet with the donor. Like keeping them engaged in the life of the organization in between the board meetings so that they can see how, how they can help lots. A lot of board members skills are not being used optimally.
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Bloomerang Ad
Oh, I completely agree. I love that. It's sort of like when you ask someone to be on a board and then the first thing you say is, oh, it's not going to take a lot of time, is it? Or not, I don't know. And then if it's not, you know, it doesn't sound like a very promising engagement to me. But also if it does, then you haven't really been transparent. But the other thing is, I completely agree with that. I don't think that board members often know what to do next. It's like you said, they go to the meeting, they have the best intentions, they're very excited, they're very passionate. Maybe they read a story, maybe they have a connection to your organization, maybe they want to fundraise, but they just don't have. They don't know. They don't have the day by day. They don't have the bullet points, they know the talking points. They don't have the step by step of, oh, this is the next thing that, that I should be doing. I can be a recurring donor. I can open the doors to all of my different colleagues. But here's sort of how to do it. So it is on us internally at the nonprofit to make those connections, to explain to them, to share with them, maybe ways that we're hoping that we can work together, but also giving them, giving them maybe two steps that they should do after every board meeting. I'm not sure how you structure your agenda.
- [24:22]
Crystal Cherry
This is the time now for the board chair. If you've not met individually with your board members, I mean, I think once a quarter you should make it a point that even if you can't meet with them in person, to do a virtual coffee and just ask each person, how has this experience been for you so far? Are you finding reward in it? Do you feel like there are some things that you would like to say or contribute that you've not been able to? Are we using your skills optimally, like really getting from the board member, like what he or she wants from this experience and how they would like to engage more. Because a lot of times people just won't speak up if you don't ask them. They just won't speak up. And I think this is a time for you to lean and say, I'm going to build individual relationships with this board. Because a lot of times in the board meeting, the person may not feel comfortable speaking up in front of everyone. Like, might be more reserved. I might be an introvert. That might be my. Just the way my culture is, whatever it is. And so, you know, Lee might be really quiet means. But if you have one on one with Lee and you start asking him or her questions about, you know, their feelings about things, it might be more apt to open up. And so this is your time for you to lean in to learn who really is on my board. What skill sets do they have, what can they bring? Who are my biggest visionaries, who are my executors, who are my people, who are going to advocate, who are my fundraisers, who are my connectors so that you can tap into each one of those skill sets when those needs arise.
- [25:46]
Bloomerang Ad
Meeting one on one, so important because like you said, they might not be speaking up in a group and they might be more willing to speak with you one on one. What about recruiting board members? What if a nonprofit struggles with recruiting new board members? Where are some places they should look? What are some strategies they should use?
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Crystal Cherry
Yeah, well, the first thing I tell nonprofits is don't wait until you have vacancies to start.
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Bloomerang Ad
Oh, right, right.
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Crystal Cherry
You should have a pipeline now, even if you don't have any vacancies, you know, at the end of this year, you're going to have four people who are going to turn over. Right? Four people's terms are going to end. You're going to have four vacancies. Don't wait until that happens. And I'll say, oh, well, now we need to find a one. You should start cultivating relationships now. People who you think would be a good asset to your boy and get them in the pipeline and let them know, you know, we're going to have some vacancies at the end of this quarter, at the end of this year. And I would love for you to consider serving on this board. May I send you some information about our organization? I want to share our annual report. I even will share my bylaws. I will share something. And we're really hoping that you will. So when that vacancy opens up, this person can kind of move right in. Right? You've not done that preparation. Now is the time for you to really look at your matrix and say, okay, who's on this board? What skills do we have? What skills are missing? Who's missing? What industries are missing? Do we need more people in banking? Do we need people who are public relations people? Do we need people social media experience like you? Do we need people who are bilingual or people who are Muslim? Whatever it is that you need on your board in order for it to be well rounded, to be representative of community, and then who's missing? Do some targeted recruitment for people who will help fill that gap and fill that matrix so that you have the right people and be intentional, just not just because someone works at bank of America and they make a six figure figure or seven figure salary to me to recruit them. Right? You pull four people on your board who have finance background. Now stay away from bankers. That's not what you need. You might need someone who's an educator. You might need someone who's under 40. You know, you might need someone who speaks Chinese, I don't know. But you know, whatever it is, that is who you should be targeting. And that means being intentional again. And that means having a nominating committee or your governance committee or whoever it is really, really, really weighing in on and figuring out what is a recruitment strategy for us moving forward, really making sure, okay, who are we looking for? Who knows people who might fit these categories? How are we going to find these people? And then from finding them, how are we going to, you know, get them interested in our organization? And sometimes it requires bringing in someone like me. I'm a board, I also recruit, I'm a boarder to actually do that work for you if you don't have the time or bandwidth to do it yourself.
- [28:33]
Bloomerang Ad
The theme is intentionality and being proactive. And I find that has been the theme of pretty much almost every podcast interview that I've done this year is we need to stop resting on our laurels and the comfort is over. We really need to get out of our comfort zone and be more proactive with what we need, what we think, what we're doing, with our mission, with our board, with who we're recruiting. And I know that there's a million things going on, a million fires to put out. There's so much on your plate, but being proactive, if having a robust and diverse board is one of your goals, then being proactive and not expecting it to kind of like fall out of the tree. Like, board members don't fall out of trees.
- [29:20]
Crystal Cherry
And I'm a person of faith. You know, I believe that, you know, God has a plan for all of us and all of this. But I also believe that we are down here on this earth and God has given us the ability to move, to act, to act, to add, you know, activate, and to advocate. And so while we're here on this earth, our mission is to do that, is to do what God has granted us the ability to do. So, yes, be faithful, but. And hopeful. But you have to do something.
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Bloomerang Ad
You have to do something. Speaking of that, you know, I think about playing it safe. You know, it's not always the best option. So if a board wanted to make one bold move in the next month to really step up their leadership, what do you think it should be?
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Crystal Cherry
I think it's making sure you have the right people at the table.
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Bloomerang Ad
Yeah.
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Crystal Cherry
I think it's taking a look around the room and saying, you know what? We need to find some other folks. These people here are not the persons who are really going to be able to withstand the uncertainty and unpredictability of what's happening right now. We need people who are going to be able to stand in their truth, be able to kind of hunker down and say, it's about to get. The rise is about to get rocky.
- [30:28]
Bloomerang Ad
Yes.
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Crystal Cherry
And we need the people in the room that's going to be able to hold on, not the folks who are going to flake or not come or be accountable when the hits the bed.
- [30:37]
Bloomerang Ad
No, that is a really bold move to evaluate what's working, what's not working. And do we really need to. I don't want to say clean house, but do we need to get in some new blood here? Some people that are going to shake things up.
- [30:52]
Crystal Cherry
This is a scary time for that person, you know, to make these big decisions, which may mean cutting staff, which may mean cutting program. These are unpopular decisions and they hurt people. But sometimes it's the best decision for the organization. That's a hard place to be in. So making sure that you're providing him or her with not only the emotional support that they need, but also the resources that he or she needs in order for them. Good. Could do a good job.
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Bloomerang Ad
Do you have any final words of encouragement for nonprofit leaders that are trying to lead through these difficult times?
- [31:24]
Crystal Cherry
Yeah. I just say thank you, first of all. And the fact that you're using your passion and your skill set and your expertise and your experience to do this work is really a gift to all of us. And so keep your head down and keep your stamina up. Keep your head down and just keep coming every day. Put one foot in front of the other and trust that you have the ability to get the job done.
- [31:47]
Bloomerang Ad
You're one foot in front of the other. You're awesome. I love it. You heard it here from Krystal and from me. Where can people learn more about you and the board Pro connect with you?
- [31:58]
Crystal Cherry
Yes. Well, certainly connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn. Very active on LinkedIn. So connect with me there. You can go to my website@theboardpro.com my email address is hello at the Boy pro. Com and so if you wanted to send me a note, I'm happy to communicate with you.
- [32:12]
Bloomerang Ad
Amazing. Crystal, this was wonderful. I appreciate just your passion, your enthusiasm, your energy. It's just always, it's just always exciting to see. And I notice, you know, the thing is we're just going to get through these times together and hopefully come out stronger on the other end. I'm pretty optimistic.
- [32:31]
Crystal Cherry
Absolutely. I'm optimistic every day I get up and do this work with optimism. So.
- [32:35]
Bloomerang Ad
Okay. Thank you again so much for being on the show.
- [32:38]
Crystal Cherry
Absolutely. Thank you again for having me.
- [32:42]
Bloomerang Ad
Foreign.
- [32:49]
Julia Campbell
Thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review because this tells you other people that my podcast.
- [33:09]
Bloomerang Ad
Is worth listening to.
- [33:11]
Julia Campbell
And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then, you can find me on instagram @ Julia Campbell, 77. Keep changing the world, you nonprofit unic.
- [33:33]
Crystal Cherry
Sa.