How to Communicate When Stakes Are High with Jacques Hebert

Summary

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Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell

Episode: How to Communicate When Stakes Are High

Guest: Jacques Hebert, Communications Director, McKnight Foundation
Date: April 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

Julia Campbell sits down with Jacques Hebert from the McKnight Foundation to discuss how nonprofits should communicate in high-stakes, crisis situations—especially when their communities are grieving, fearful, and demanding accountability. The discussion dives into real-world decision-making, the emotional impact on communication professionals, practical strategies for using your public voice, and frameworks for nonprofit leaders to decide when and how to speak out on pressing public issues.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jacques Hebert’s Journey and Role at McKnight Foundation

• Introduction to Jacques’ background:
  • Early career in corporate communications at a large tech firm and YouTube.
  • Pivoted to mission-driven nonprofit work after Hurricane Katrina and the BP oil spill struck his rural Louisiana hometown.
  • Worked with National Audubon Society and Environmental Defense Fund, focusing on environmental recovery and storytelling.
  • Moved to Minnesota for personal reasons and joined McKnight Foundation, a nearly 75-year-old philanthropic foundation focused on climate, economic opportunity, arts, and culture.
  • Quote:

    “Communications has really been a through line for me from the beginning… I quickly learned in that experience that I loved communications, I loved telling stories, and I also loved mission-driven work.” — Jacques Hebert [03:01]

The Responsibility of Communicating in Crisis

• McKnight’s public statement after tragedy:
  • Julia highlights the foundation’s public response to Renee Good’s shooting, which was remarkable for its clarity and directness compared to sector-wide silence.
  • Key quote from McKnight’s statement:

    “We believe in dignity, safety and the rule of law. We will not accept the unjust targeting of our immigrant neighbors that rips families apart, government overreach that undermines constitutional rights or violence, and the senseless loss of life.” — McKnight Foundation President, Tanya Allen [06:28]

  • Jacques discusses the process and the emotional climate leading up to issuing that statement; emphasizes that having clarity on organizational values made the decision straightforward, though not without fear of backlash.
• Importance of preparedness:
  • Jacques shares McKnight’s approach: mapping organizational positions before crises happen enables faster, more decisive communications.
  • Quote:

    “Having that shared and aligned narrative early allowed us to move quickly in the events that then happened.” — Jacques Hebert [15:43]

Impact on the Minnesota Community

• Ongoing crisis:
  • Extensive impacts of ICE raids and violence in Minnesota: separated families, shuttered small businesses, rising rent debts, fear-driven disruption to daily life.
  • Emphasizes that public attention fades, but long-term effects persist in the community.
  • Quote:

    “What we’re experiencing in Minnesota is far from over and the long-term impacts will continue. Our president, Tanya Allen, has shared that this is like Covid 2.0, but without government assistance and because of government provocation.” — Jacques Hebert [07:47]

Internal & External Communication Strategies

• Caring for the team:
  • Jacques details balancing urgent external communications and internal support for affected staff.
  • Practices include open processing spaces, flexibility, resources for staff, and prioritizing acknowledgment of trauma.
  • Quote:

    “Knowing what grounds you in a moment and being willing to go there, being willing to set the right kind of boundaries so that you’re caring for yourself through it all… that comes first.” — Jacques Hebert [19:58]

• Focusing on the positive:
  • Deliberate effort to highlight stories of hope and community resilience amidst crisis—like volunteers organizing carpools, standing watch at schools, and small businesses supporting vulnerable neighbors.

Framework for Deciding When and How to Speak Out

The Five P’s Framework:

Jacques shares a concise tool for nonprofit leaders and communicators to decide when and how to engage in public conversations about broader issues:

1. People — Does the situation impact your staff or close partners?
2. Place — Is it happening in your geographic area or a place where you actively work?
3. Priorities — Does it directly tie to your strategic or mission-driven objectives?
4. Precedence — Have you spoken about similar issues before, or do you want to set a new precedent?
5. Point of View — Do you have a unique perspective or expertise to add, or would speaking out simply add to the noise?

• Quote:

  “Organizations are comprised of people… Sometimes they just need the acknowledgment that what they’re experiencing is being seen.” — Jacques Hebert [30:36]

• On moving from performative to authentic:

  “Using your voice, communicating and statements are important, but that shouldn’t be the end— that should be the starting point. How are you backing it up with action?” — Jacques Hebert [33:49]

How Nonprofits and Individuals Can Help

• Current situation and needs:
  • Agents remain active; communities still face fear, rent debt, and business hardship.
  • Support needed for mutual aid, small business relief, and especially for mental health.
• Action Steps and Resources:
  • StandWithMinnesota.com — campaign for direct aid.
  • McKnight’s “Best of Minnesota” resource list at mcknight.org/best-of-mn.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the loneliness and duty of speaking out:

  “It felt like we were alone… making the decision to speak out was making the decision to showcase what was happening here, to be a part of telling the story, to be a part of documenting, to be a part of calling others in, to support our neighbors.” — Jacques Hebert [13:47]

• On emotional health for communicators:

  “We have to more broadly recognize that so many people that work in the nonprofit space—we’re part of our community. But with that comes the weight.” — Jacques Hebert [19:58]

• On hope and community:

  “One of the things that emerged from the darkest of circumstances… was people who said, ‘I’m going to go out in the freezing cold and stand watch so these kids can safely get into class and learn.’ …that’s what the world saw in Minnesota.” — Jacques Hebert [22:58]

• On the importance of communications roles:

  “Don’t underestimate the power of communications and your communicators. They’re experts… treat them as such.” — Jacques Hebert [41:34]

• Closing inspiration from McKnight’s President Tanya Allen:

  “The future is not finished. We have a role in shaping the future.” — Jacques Hebert [42:35]

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Jacques’ personal and professional journey
  [03:01–06:28]

• The process and impact of McKnight’s public statements
  [06:28–11:18]

• Framework for crisis communications (The Five P’s)
  [29:14–33:49]

• Best practices for internal and external communication in crisis
  [19:58–26:41]

• Community resilience stories and the power of hope
  [22:58–26:41]

• Update on the situation in Minnesota & tangible ways to help
  [35:00–40:31]

• Hopeful closing and the future of nonprofit communication
  [41:34–42:42]

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Conclusion

This episode is a powerful exploration of what it means for nonprofits and philanthropy to show up—with clarity, courage, and compassionate communication—when the stakes are high. Jacques Hebert shares real tactics and honest reflections on managing internal and external messaging, centering community impact, and harnessing organizational voice without succumbing to fear or overwhelm.

Resources:

• McKnight Foundation “Best of Minnesota” Resource Page
• StandWithMinnesota.com
• Connect with Jacques Hebert on LinkedIn: [@Jacquebert]

Final Word:

“The only thing more powerful than fear is hope and love.” — Julia Campbell [40:31]

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Transcript

[Bloomerang Narrator]

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[Julia Campbell (Podcast Host Intro/Outro)]

Hello, and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience, and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visit ability, reach more people, and create even more impact, then you're in the right place.

[Julia Campbell]

Let's get started. Hello, everyone. This is Nonprofit Nation with your host, Julia Campbell. Today we're talking about how nonprofits can show up when their communities are grieving and fearful and demanding accountability. And we know that nonprofit leaders are called upon to do much more than deliver services. We have to communicate with empathy. We have to support our teams. We have to stand alongside our communities, and we have to decide whether or how to speak publicly about events that are unfolding in real time. So today I'm joined by Jacques Hebert, communications director at the McKnight foundation, and we're going to talk all about his approach, the McKnight Foundation's approach, and what the approach should be for the sector and for philanthropy going forward in these unprecedented times. We keep saying unprecedented times. Have there been precedented times? I don't think so.

[Jacques Hebert]

If you can tell me when I know, let's go back to there for a little bit and just experience it for even a few minutes. I think our nervous systems could all use it.

[Julia Campbell]

Can you tell us a bit about your story, your sort of journey, and your work at the McKnight Foundation?

[Jacques Hebert]

Yeah. Well, first, thank you so much, Julia for having me on. And thank you for the podcast. It's so important, you know, that we have a space to connect with each other and talk about these important issues. So as you mentioned, I am communications director at the McKnight Foundation. We're nearly 75 year old family foundation based in Minneapolis. We work across all of Minnesota and across the Midwest and even have a global foods program that's working outside of the US we focus in a number of areas, but largely focused on climate, on economic opportunity, arts, culture and more. So you know my background in coming to McKnight, I had never worked in philanthropy prior to this position. Communications has really been a through line for me from the beginning. So started my career at a large tech corporation working in kind of a more corporate, traditional corporate communication space. I actually worked at YouTube helping people communicate about how they could make careers on YouTube and produce all kinds of content, which was amazing, you know, to think about when that was like back in 2012. Now you think about TikTok and just where people are in terms of the creator ecosystem. But long story short, you know, I quickly learned in that experience that I loved communications, I loved telling stories and I also loved mission driven work. So that caused me same. Yeah, yeah. I did a rapid turn in my career to go from a large corporation to a nonprofit news organization. And from there I kind of continued my path. You know, born and raised. I've lived all over, but I was born and raised south of New Orleans. A lot of people say what is south of New Orleans? But it was a really kind of rural coast community that at the time had been devastated by, you know, Hurricane Katrina and then the BP oil spill. I was living in California and just felt really compelled to go back home and help my people. So I was fortunate enough to get a position working with National Audubon Society and then Environmental Defense Fund, two nonprofits that were working with a number of state based nonprofits in Louisiana to help the region recover and address long term impacts to climate change and other disasters. It was then that I really leaned into the power of storytelling and had the opportunity, you know, to Sometimes I would go out on boats or seaplanes with New York Times reporters or others to help them see what was happening to Louisiana's coast and its people, rather than trying to tell them through words. And then I made my way to Minnesota, as many people in Minnesota do. You know, I married someone from Minnesota. My husband felt the calling to come back and Minnesotans are known to do that. They love their place and they love bringing People back with them. So have been in Minnesota for about five years. Was here the McKnight position opened up. And for me, it was an incredible opportunity to be at the confluence of so many areas that I had worked, whether that's in the environment, whether that's arts and culture, whether that's on opportunity. And then it's just been a tremendous three years here at the McKnight Foundation. I consider myself proud every day to come and work on the mission that we work on and kind of support and help amplify the stories of the incredible partners and nonprofits that are working in Minnesota and beyond to do some really important things for our people. So that's a little bit about me.

[Julia Campbell]

Oh, that's so great. No, I really appreciate that. And I had reached out to the McKnight foundation after seeing the really powerful public statements that the foundation made that McKnight President Tanya Allen made following Renee Good's shooting almost immediately after. And I was struck by it because I hadn't see a lot of people posting about it in the sector. I didn't see a lot of organizations, I didn't see a lot of foundations posting about it. And something that really struck me about the statement is when Tanya wrote, you know, we believe in dignity, safety, safety and the rule of law. We will not accept the unjust targeting of our immigrant neighbors that rips families apart, government overreach, that undermines constitutional rights or violence, and the senseless loss of life. I just thought that statement was incredibly powerful and needed. How did you make this decision? I'm sure it was a. I'm not sure if it was a tough decision. Maybe it was a very easy decision to make this kind of statement. I know a lot of nonprofit leaders might struggle to come out so strongly after such a polarizing, which should not have been a polarizing event, but after such an event that kind of ripped people apart, especially on social media.

[Jacques Hebert]

You know, first, you know, I'll just say and acknowledge we're here in early March in Minnesota. The last two and a half months, the nation saw this firsthand, you know, have just been so devastating for so many people. You know, of course, we've had our neighbors and, you know, people in our places of worship or work or at schools who have been removed. Right. And they're, you know, no longer part of their community. The families have been separated. We've had businesses, particularly immigrant owned businesses and small businesses throughout the region that have, you know, had to shutter their doors, that are struggling to get by because of their employees. Can't come to work or they're scared to open their doors. You have families that are, have not been able to go to work for a number of reasons or out of fear, that are now facing, you know, back rent or mortgage payments and are at risk of being evicted. So what we're experiencing in Minnesota is far from over and the long term impacts will continue. Our president, Tanya Allen, has shared that this is like Covid 2.0, but without government assistance and because of government provocation. So putting that out because I think it's important, as the headlines move on, people realize what has been left here in Minnesota and the needs that exist to really support people through that. So McKnight, you know, is trying to do our part directing more resources to support families, to support small businesses in addition to our existing grant making. And there are many others who are stepping up in the process. But I would just say, you know, in terms of the specific statement you referenced that Tanya put out, McKnight has had a long time orientation as a foundation, really going back to Tanya's coming to the foundation, that there are many ways that we as an organization can advance our mission, of course, our grant making and the ways that we support nonprofit organizations to do critical work on a whole range of issues that benefit people, that's central. But foundations have other tools and many nonprofit organizations have them too, right? So one of those is our public voice and the ways that we use our voice to inspire, to influence, to inform others. And we take that charge very seriously. Really going back to the beginning of last year, 2025, folks might remember it was a time of rapid change. There were a lot of, there was a lot of confusion, a lot of swirl, a lot of fear coming out and that were, that was blanketing, you know, the nonprofit sector, the philanthropic sector. I mean, frankly, every sector of our society, we saw law firms, we saw large media corporations, academic institutions, all kind of capitulating or saying like, you know, we, we can't say anything, we can't do anything. We have to kind of keep our heads down and just keep moving. You know, at the time McKnight made a decision that, like, look, we're going to be really clear about what we stand for. And that is we stand for our mission to advance a more just, creative and abundant future where people and planet thrive. We stand for our values as an institution and we stand for our partners, right? Essentially the people, whether that's nonprofits, whether that's our neighbors who are doing incredible work, who are just trying to show up every day and improve the lives of others. And we issued that statement in February. It was at a time when I think very few foundations had said anything publicly.

[Julia Campbell]

Oh, it was complete radio silence.

[Jacques Hebert]

Yeah. You know, I'll give credit to, you know, the Robert Wood Johnson foundation, which had a very strong statement, I think, I believe the California Endowment. But we issued that statement, and there we were, you know, at the time, we're, like, sort of fearful doing it. We're like, is this going to create backlash? What impact is this going to have on us? Looking back, it's like this. This is crazy. This is America. This is our society. We have a right to freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and to stand up for our values and the important work that we're doing. So I just name that because I think that kicked off for us a sense of clarity in our communications and our public voice and in how we're showing up in this moment of challenge that then resulted in, you know, when that devastating moment happened, you know, we were in a meeting, and I got a news alert saying that one of our neighbors, a person, had been shot in South Minneapolis. And this is just less than 10 minutes from our office. Sadly, it's blocks away from where George Floyd was murdered in 2020. You know, we worked quickly to assess, what information do we know? What can we understand about the situation? We didn't want to get out in a place where we're communicating before we had the facts, before we knew the context, but once we knew that, because we had been clear about our values, we had been clear about where we stood as a foundation, ultimately, this was just standing up for and being clear about this was an American citizen, a mom, someone who was exercising constitutional rights, and no one should be faced with that kind of devastating consequences. And then, of course, only weeks later, we saw basically the same thing happen to Alex Preddy. Right. And I'll just say that stepping back from that immediate moment, which, you know, was so painful, and, you know, there it was really important that we spoke out, expressed deep condolences for the wife of Renee Goode, her family, you know, and the broader community that was seeing this horror and wondering, like, is this. Is this okay? What is happening? And also making sure that those outside of Minnesota were aware of what was happening as well. There were weeks early in, you know, the surge, particularly late December, January, where there was so much intensity that was happening here. I mean, I don't think people really can understand there. It was affecting every part of our society. People who work here, people who we Know our loved ones, our friends were all deeply impacted. There was no escaping it. And at the same time, unless you were here, it felt like, is anyone paying attention? Does anyone know really what's happening here? It was the sense of both, like, this is not normal. Are we living in America? And where is everyone? Where is the outrage? And are people just even aware of what's happening? I think because of all of the devastation and the. The work that was done to document, to showcase to the world in very clear terms what was happening. I mean, there was no mistaking it. And then people really started to activate and respond. But there was that period where it felt like we were alone. And so for us, making the decision to speak out was making the decision to showcase what was happening here, to be a part of telling the story, to be a part of documenting, to be a part of calling others in, to. To support our neighbors and people who were impacted. And then one thing I'll just say to this specific question. So, you know, it wasn't necessarily when this happened. It wasn't necessarily. I mean, the intensity, you know, the volume was something unlike we had seen anywhere else in any other American city or community that this was happening, not. Wasn't necessarily a huge surprise. I mean, we had nonprofit partners who have been doing incredible work to educate people about their rights, their legal rights, their constitutional rights, to educate them about how to be constitutional observers. So these trainings really, I mean, thousands and thousands of people have gone to them, but they essentially train people on the Constitution, the US Constitution, Right?

[Julia Campbell]

And then if that's not being followed, if that's being thrown out the window, what do you do?

[Jacques Hebert]

They emphasize de escalation, nonviolence, and essentially keeping a distance. Right. And just recording with your phone so that. That can be documented, you know, if families need to be informed for other reasons. But that those videos, that documentation became so important to the world, seeing what was happening. And I raised that because once we started to hear, and this is back in late 2025, November, December, that this was a likelihood that this could happen here. We had seen what happened in Chicago. We had seen what had happened in Los Angeles, New Orleans, where I'm from, one of the things that we did as an organization myself, some of our senior leaders, was just to map out what is our position? Like, how do we get ready on a number of fronts, and what is our position? What is our narrative about this? And essentially we said, look, we are for law and order. We are for the rule of law. We think everyone should follow the law, whether that's people who come here or for the people who are enforced and charged with keeping us safe. And we emphasized humanity. We emphasize dignity. We emphasize the fact that we know that our immigrant and refugee neighbors make us stronger as a state, as a community. They're people that we love and care for. And I think having that shared and aligned narrative early allowed us to move quickly and in the events that then happened. Right. Including the ones that you referenced. And so I would just encourage your listeners to think about that. I mean, the unprecedentedness keeps happening to the point where is unprecedented even a word that is relevant anymore. Right. But chaotic.

[Julia Campbell]

I don't know what's a better word.

[Jacques Hebert]

Yes, but in this, we, you know, we talk about vuca, the volatile, uncertain. You know, I don't even know what the rest stands for. But in this world, you have to have that sense, sense of, like, readiness, if not for the specific scenario, at least at a general level. Like, what would be your principles for moving through this uncertainty or this chaos? What are the things that are important for you to really lean into and say and emphasize as an organization that's grounded in your mission, that's grounded in who you are. And so I would just encourage people to think about that as part of the preparedness and just being ready to communicate when you need to communicate.

[Julia Campbell]

Exactly. First of all, vuca, I just looked it up. Volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity.

[Jacques Hebert]

Thank you. Yeah.

[Julia Campbell]

Exactly where we are right now. Thank you for sharing that experience. Because I do think it's so important for people to understand what it was really like in Minnesota and Minneapolis and how it affected every single person and every single business and across sectors and across industries. I did want to say to those listening, McKnight actually has a really great, great resource. If you do want to support Minnesotans, if you want to share on social media, if you want to learn more resources about more resources, it's mcknight.org best-of-mn and I will put that in the show notes if you're looking for some ways to really support everyday Minnesotans and people that are getting back on their feet. So I had. I'm just thinking about everything that you said. As a communications director, you know that your job is to be proactive, right? It is to mobilize people. And we got to get out a statement and we got to do this. How did you manage that personally, you know, mentally, I think that's something that a lot of nonprofits struggle with as well, is I'm not in Minnesota but when I saw that Renee Goode was shot, I had to lay down and cry. I mean, I'm in Boston, but as a mother, as someone, you know, that really believes in our democracy, or did, I'm not sure, but it really affected. It really affected me personally. What is some advice that you would have for communications directors maybe dealing with a crisis like this that affects them so personally, but you still being able to get the word out because it's so important, the visibility.

[Jacques Hebert]

Yeah. Thank you. I mean, thank you for asking that question. And I mean, I think it's part of a broader. Just. We have to more broadly recognize that so many people that work in the nonprofit space, whether they're in communications, regardless of what they're doing, we're part of our community. Right. We communicated about what was happening here because it was happening here to our people, to our neighbors. But with that also comes the weight. Right. And so I think recognizing that I personally, compared to many people who have gone through the last two months, have been in a fine position. You know, like, I. Yes, it's been hard to see what is happening in our community, to see what's happening to neighbors and people we care about. And I've also felt very intensely motivated and purpose driven to do what I could with my role, my capabilities to help. Right. And you have to balance that. Like, sometimes it's also all consuming. So there are multiple things that are, like, true at the same time. I would say that, you know, having your core and having your grounding and knowing when you need to kind of like, separate and step back and like, listening to yourself. Right. So for me, having time to be with my family, having time to be with my friends, even picking up the phone and calling, you know, a family member who lives in another state, to just be like, let me just get this out and tell you what is happening here, because I just need someone else to understand it. I think knowing what kind of grounds you in a moment and being willing to go there, being willing to, like, set the right kind of boundaries so that you're caring for yourself through it all. But I would say this. Like, I also am thinking about caring for my team. I'm also thinking about caring for our organization along with our leadership at McKnight. And that's where it's really important to think about you balancing the external with the internal. Right. And what are you communicating? How are you connecting with your people internally? And knowing. I have, and I'll just be really blunt, I have friends that work at different corporations and Other places in the Twin Cities who were going through the same thing I was going through, they didn't hear one thing from their employer. There was like, very little acknowledgment until, like, much later in the whole situation. I would say McKnight, when everything happened initially and there was the murder of Renee Goode, first thing that we did for our staff was to just create a space for us to come together and just process together, right? Because we recognized like, this is directly impacting us. It's right in our community. It's something that's very shocking that, like, we work on, we're, we're dealing with and just creating that space for acknowledgment, for seeing each other, the people that wanted to participate. And then how are we? Were we also flexible in terms of providing resources to staff, to navigate the moment? You know, so I just, I would encourage leadership that's listening and others to think about, you know, what we're going through. We learned what VUCA stands for. We've also used the term like polycrisis, right. Which we have to be able to sustain ourselves as a sector. And there's a lot that Maury could say, and I'm not an expert in meditation or wellness, but I think those resources is so important and just the acknowledgement comes first that that's that we're human and we're caring a lot. And often the people that are drawn to nonprofit, mission driven work are the ones that are going to care most about what's happening in the world. And what's happening in the world right now is a lot of difficult stuff. The last thing I would say is it's so important to lean into and prioritize the good. And so I was also very proud over the last two months. And that's why the page that you highlighted is called Best of Minnesota. Because one of the things that emerged from the darkest of circumstances and the most challenging of circumstances, people that were showing up as the best of Minnesota and the best of America, right? And this was people who said, I'm going to go out in the freezing cold of a Minnesota winter, negative, you know, 25 degree wind chill. And I'm going to stand watch outside of this school so that these kids can safely get into class and learn, right? I'm going to, you know, and so many people did that. I mean, I have a neighbor who's, she's retired, she's in her 70s. She's like, I just need to do something. I'm going to organize and Coordinate carpools for kids so that they can get to go to school because their parents are too scared to leave. You had people that, you know, were doing the constitutional observer work, which was so vital. You had people that were delivering groceries on a constant basis to others who were stuck in their homes and they couldn't go out. Small businesses. I mean, one of the things we worked with, you know, W. Kamal Bell, who folks may know is a well known kind of producer, director, comedian, and he was just, like, interested in coming to Minnesota and sharing stories. He met with a local business owner named Amar, who owns One Stop Shop in South Minneapolis. His business was largely frequented by, like, Latino customers, many of whom were, you know, not coming because they couldn't leave their homes. He was. His business was struggling, and at the same time, he said, like, well, I'm going to do what I can to support these people. I'm going to deliver groceries, and if they can't pay, I'm still gonna help them out and get them what they need. Kamau did a story about him and it quickly went viral. And then people from all over the country were just saying, like, how can I help? Because I think they were inspired. They saw just the basic goodness, the basic decency, the basic care, and that's what the world saw in Minnesota. And so being able to focus on that among all of the hardships, the negativity, and just represent how Minnesota and Minnesotans were showing up was such a source of pride, inspiration, motivation, and energy that, like, allowed me and probably so many other people that were going through this to just get through it. And so I would say we, you know, showed the country what it means to stand up for our neighbors, for our democracy and what that should be. And I think very proud of that here in Minnesota and Hope folks other and other places were watching and listening because that's kind of what's needed if we're gonna get through this together.

[Julia Campbell]

Absolutely, I completely agree. I remember my social media feed went from horrifying images of ICE agents pulling people out of cars and out of schools and taking children. And then it kind of went from. In the. In the weeks afterwards, people helping, like you just said, like the. A woman that just wanted to start a carpool or standing outside of a school or, you know, grocery store owner. And I thought that was. It was just so striking and amazing and wonderful to see, you know, the community stepping up like that. I think for nonprofits, communication directors especially, they really struggle with how to say something and when to say something. And I saw this, and I'm sure you saw this with George Floyd. So it seems like if you are living in Minneapolis, you are going to be commenting and saying something about what happened with the murder of George Floyd. But I saw so many organizations where I live in Boston struggle because they thought, well, I don't live there. I don't know enough about it. I'm not an expert on it. Like, what if I get it wrong? What if I get the words wrong? What if it looks performative? What if we get backlash? I mean, there's so many questions. Would you have advice on maybe how, you know, how to create a. Or what kind of framework you use when deciding when and how to speak on things that might not directly affect your community, you know, and things maybe that are big, broader issues?

[Jacques Hebert]

I think it's an important question. Right. And so many organizations, nonprofits, corporations, others are struggling with this right now.

[Julia Campbell]

Yes.

[Jacques Hebert]

I think one thing that's important to just acknowledge up front is that using your voice and using your platforms and positions really matters. And I think it matters right now when, you know, so many people have been told to obey in advance that they need to, that if they say something, if they do something, you know, it could risk a whole range of impacts. And frankly, like, let's lean into our constitutional rights and our First Amendment freedoms as a nation that, you know, have been long fought for, to say that, like, actually we have that right and let's use it. But to answer your question, I think it, you know, using it in the right way is an important conversation. And it you as a communications director or maybe a nonprofit leader, you should have that conversation in advance of when you need to. Right. So.

[Bloomerang Narrator]

Right.

[Jacques Hebert]

Whether that's with your leadership team, whether that's getting input from staff, whether that's a conversation with your board, I think making sure that you're not avoiding the hard conversation and actually directly addressing it before you need to is going to help tremendously. Right. Because you'll have a better sense of your aptitude. You know, some might say risk tolerance. And also what is your positioning? What do you. What do you want to say that's grounded in who you are as an organization, your mission, and all of those sorts of things. You know, as far as frameworks, because this is something that comes up for us all the time. You know, should we communicate about this? Should we communicate about that? If not this, then, then why? You know, I think a lot of people get requests from people within their organization saying, well, I saw this thing happen. Like, should we Communicate on it. And it's also real that, like, while using your voice and your public voice matters, so does, like, when you use it. And communications teams could be absorbed with just trying to respond to and communicate about everything that's happening in the world. So the way we've kind of organized it, I have like this framework that I created that just kind of helps ground us, which is I call the five P's. So it's people like, is this affecting your staff? Is this affecting your close partner's place? Is this something that's happening in your place? Like, for example, for us, it would be in the Twin Cities or in Minnesota or a place that we work even globally. Priorities, right? Is this something that ties into your strategic priorities as an organization? Precedence. Is there a precedence for communicating about this in the past? Or do you want to set that precedence going forward? Because I think one of the things that we've seen is people will use their voice, they'll say something, they'll issue a statement. But then sometimes that requires follow through, right? Sometimes that requires action. So understanding the precedence question is really important. And then the last one, which is important, and I think this is where you need to. Do you have a point of view? Do you have something you want to add to the conversation that's based on your expertise, that's based in your experience and your understanding that's based in the work that you do? Or are you just trying to like, add, you know, to the noise? And I'm not saying, like all of those. I would weigh all of those equally, right? If something was like directly impacting our people and our priorities, right? Or it was happening in our place, but maybe we haven't said anything about it in the past, or maybe we don't, we don't necessarily have a strong point of view. We probably should do it, but we need to figure out what our point of view is, right? So I'm not saying this is like a perfect framework, but it at least allows you to kind of have some of those conversations. And as a communicator, a lot of times, you know, we'll get. Well, we should say something about this. Okay, well, what do we, what do we want to say? What do we need to say? And so it gives you that sense of grounding, of, you know, maybe what you need to say right now is just more of a message of affirmation for your people. And maybe it's an internal message, right? Because it really is just about what's happening, like to staff. It's not Something, you know, maybe you don't need to do a public announcement about it or maybe it's just, you know, so it kind of guides you. But I would say having the conversation up front, I think also knowing that kind of what I shared before. Organizations are comprised of people, right? Like they are both like people that come up, come into work every day, that have a whole range of experiences that are seeing all these headlines. Sometimes they just need the acknowledgement that like, you know, what they're experiencing is being seen. And then organizations, a lot of times, I mean, McKnight is a deeply place based foundation. We have strong partnerships and relationships in our community. We consider ourselves to be a part of the community. We want to be a good neighbor. That means showing up for our community when our community needs us. Right? And we've gotten tremendous feedback and positive feedback from so many people in places because of how we've been communicating. And I think part of that is because I don't want to say it's rare, but like there's been, I think, a backlash to, and a retreat, I think, from what people's willingness to use their voice. So, and then the last thing I'll share is especially if you have access to resources, right? So we're a foundation, right. We have our grant making. Yes, our public voice is important, but so is the action, right? Yes. So I think it's important if you're, whether you're a corporation, regardless. I mean, using your voice, communicating and statements are important, but that shouldn't be the end, right? That shouldn't be the finish line. That should be the starting point. So what are you doing? What are you putting behind that statement? What are you putting behind your communications? How are you backing it up with action so that it doesn't become performative, that it doesn't become kind of a PR exercise? And I think making sure that whatever action you're doing is very clear in what you're saying. So people see and recognize that. So I mean, it's a lot like, look, we're in a world where we're being inundated with information, where, you know, it seems like there's a crisis on, on every corner. I think having that grounding as an institution and knowing who you are, knowing what really matters and what you can bring uniquely to the conversation is a good starting point to navigating the VUCA world.

[Julia Campbell]

So how can we support the work in Minnesota and what's going on? Like, what's an update on the ground right now?

[Jacques Hebert]

Thank you for that question. So I mean, here we are in, you know, it's March, early almost mid March since the initial drawdown was announced. I think the report that we heard last week was that there's still 650 agents that are currently deployed in Minnesota. We're hearing that, you know, while things aren't as prevalent on the news and maybe there's not as much activity in the Twin Cities, there's still activity happening in suburban, you know, communities or even rural communities. And then one thing I just really want to emphasize is, and I mentioned it earlier, but the long term impacts are really significant. Right. So, you know, I mentioned impacts on families being able to pay rent and the fear of kind of eviction or people losing their homes. You know, the University of Minnesota estimated that there's somewhere between 27 and 51 million and estimated excess rent debt. You know, just family. Those that are really on the precipice of being, you know, potentially kicked out of their homes. I would say that is a critical and acute need. You know, McKnight's working to do what we can to address it. Others can go to Stanwithminnesota.com Standwithminnesota.com StandwithMinnesota.com this is a site created by Ashley Fairbanks, who is a narrative communications leader, a fellow communications director. She's worked for the 100% clean energy campaign. She's from Minnesota. She's raised millions and millions and millions of dollars that's going direct to mutual aid support groups and direct to families. So that is a great resource. I can't say enough. You know, that's one way to help. There's also business impacts, so long term impacts to small businesses, both from lost profits as well as impacts to employees. There are groups that are working to support small businesses, including through loan programs, through relief programs. So that is another critical area. And then I would just emphasize the broader impacts are still to be felt. But one thing that's real that, you know, maybe isn't talked about enough is just the mental health impacts of what has happened. You know, particularly to our children, particularly to in our schools. There were people that were trapped in their homes for months on end. I mean, many still are. There were youth. I'll never forget one of the most painful experiences, but also the reminders of what we're doing and why we're doing this. You know, it was after the murder of Renee Good. Many of us gathered like thousands and thousands of Minnesotans gathered for a protest on a Saturday in January. It was freezing cold. It was so orderly. And organized by the group that brought it together. You know, this was just people coming out with signs saying, like, I care about my neighbors, I care about my country. We marched from Powderhorn park in South Minneapolis to the memorial of Renee Goode. I was turning and I looked up on the street. I was walking in the middle of the street and I just saw these big houses and apartment complex, Texas. And I saw up in the windows, the second, third floor, these little kids, you know, they were like 6 years old, 5 years old, 10 years old, mostly like Latina, Latina, Latino looking children who were just looking down. And some of them had signs that said, thank you Minnesota. They were waving. You know, the visual is so important to children. Right. Is significant. And so I just, I think what has happened here should not happen anywhere else. I think there's a lot of work that's being done to highlight the amazing nonprofits, the amazing mutual aid and community leaders and constitutional observers who were on the front lines and still are on the front lines of responding and helping our neighbors and helping our communities. And not just over the last two and a half, three months. They've been doing it for years. Right, right. For their leadership, for their education, for their connection. But for that, we would have not gotten through. We got through. So I just want to lift up the leadership of our Minnesota nonprofits and many others who have been responding, our immigrant led nonprofits, and just thank them so much because the work that they do is critical. And so anything we can do to support those organizations. On our website that you mentioned, the Best of Minnesota, we have a list of many of those organizations that have been doing incredible work. But yeah, I would say it's so easy to just like move on to the next thing. We haven't moved on because we can't. And I think we all need to recognize what happened, but also be ready to stand up for our neighbors, to stand up for democracy and uphold our First Amendment rights, and to lean into what Minnesota taught us, which is, you know, essentially, we're about care. We're about care. I think someone used the term. You know, I think it was the Atlantic that said a new verb, neighboring. Right. It's really who we are. We care about our people. And I would say, you know, these are, these are people like it's, it's grandmas, Minnesota grandmas who are showing up at the Lutheran Church basement with a thing of lemon bars just saying, like, how can I help? I want to help, you know, and so I think let's not forget that humanity and that that still exists in all of us, despite what we may be told and what. What might be in our social media feeds.

[Julia Campbell]

Wow. I think everyone should be taking notes. I love that framework. And I also love the ending. On hopeful notes, I always ask my guests, what keep you hopeful? And you answered that really, really well. I think that does make me really hopeful as well. And I think the, you know, the only thing more powerful than fear is hope and love. Right. So that's all that we can do. So where can people go mcknight.org can they connect with you on LinkedIn?

[Jacques Hebert]

Yeah. Feel free to go to mcknight.org, you know, you can learn more about our foundation and the work that we do. Feel free to look me up on LinkedIn @Jacquebert. There are a few of us, but I think if you look for Jacques Hebert McKnight, you should be able to find me. And my page is also on the website. And then I'll just add one thing. Julia. Well, for, you know, you mentioned our leader, Tanya Allen, who's the president of McKnight. And I mean, I think her leadership in this moment of the foundation has been so critical. Right?

[Julia Campbell]

Yes.

[Jacques Hebert]

She's. She's seen and recognized the value and the power of communications in the many other ways that advances its mission. And, you know, I just am so grateful to be able to work every day for a leader like Tanya Allen would encourage those out there who, whether if you're not a communicator, but maybe you're a nonprofit president or, you know, you work with communicate communications teams. Don't underestimate the power of communications and your communicators. You know, I think I greatly appreciate the fact that I do work for an organization and a leader that understands the power there. But there's a lot that they do. They're experts. And so, you know, you should treat them as such. And then I'll just add end on this one really hopeful quote that Tanya always shares that I love. But the future is not finished. Right. And so I think it's important to acknowledge, like, we have a role in shaping the future. And, you know, that's just how we try to show up every day. So I hope folks can feel that because sometimes it does feel like things are really heavy, and they are. But we also have a role and we have power and we have agency in shaping the future.

[Julia Campbell]

Well, Jacques, thank you so much for being here and thank you so much for all the work that you're doing.

[Jacques Hebert]

Of course, Julia, thank you for having me. Thank you for, you know, just being willing and caring about Minnesota and getting this, this message out. And thank you for this podcast and for what you're doing to lead, empower and inform nonprofits.

[Julia Campbell (Podcast Host Intro/Outro)]

Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening, listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then you can find me on Instagram. Juliacampbell77 Keep changing the world, you nonprofit unicorn.