← Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
How to Lead When the Work is Heavy with Bridgette Stumpf and Lindsey Silverberg
00:36:18
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- [00:00]
A
If you're like me, then you love a checklist. Especially to help manage the chaos of year end fundraising.
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B
When you go to my website right.
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A
Now, jcsocialmarketing.com bloomerang, you'll get their packet of 12 year end fundraising checklists totally free. You'll get insight into how to plan and execute effective year end fundraising campaigns, questions to inspire donors and to follow up with lapsed donors. Innovative ways to re engage donors if you've been a bit quiet all year and how to level up your donation page to get more conversions and build your community. Just go to jcsocialmarketing.com bloomerang and get this free download and make sure to let me know what you think. Now on to the episode.
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C
Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers and everyone in Queen to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place.
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D
Let's get started.
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B
Hello, this is Nonprofit Nation with your host Julia Campbell. And today we're going to talk about what does it take to lead with strength and compassion when your work revolves around trauma crisis and healing? And I'm joined by Bridget Stumpf, CEO and co founder and Lindsey Silverberg, Executive director at Volare, a nonprofit based in Washington, D.C. that provides free trauma informed legal advocacy and therapeutic services to survivors of crime. And Volare was formerly known as the NVRDC, the Network for Victim Recovery of DC and it's grown from a grassroots startup into a $5 million organization with a national reach. And I'm just so excited to dive into topics of storytelling and how to become a trauma informed organization and how to really deal with tough top. So thank you, Bridget and Lindsay for being here.
- [02:34]
E
Thanks for having us.
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B
So I think maybe we'll start with Bridget, but I want each of you to maybe briefly share your role at Volare. What brought you into this work of supporting crime survivors and advancing trauma informed practices?
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D
Yeah, thanks so much for having us, Julian, for putting such a focus on these important conversations that I think are so hidden for so many folks in the world. We're excited to jump in and all, you know as you uplifted. I have the honor and privilege of leading Villare in partnership with Lindsey and the rest of our staff and our board, and have been able to do that as one of our original co founders back in May of 2012. But really how I come into the work is by way of a litigator. I was a crime victims rights lawyer practicing in Maryland, and we had really identified a really unique gap for that support in the District of Columbia back in 2012. And even prior to that, my entry into law school was very non traditional. I did not go to law school to be a lawyer. I went because I was a journalist and I was writing stories where I was trying to interview leaders and communities and really hold them accountable to commitments that the laws required so that the individuals impacted by the stories I was telling really felt empowered to advocate for themselves. And I realized, wow, I don't understand these laws in a way that I can fully do that. I went to law school to be a better journalist, and I came out honestly on a path that I never could have predicted. But what we'll talk about today, and I think what sums up kind of my role in what I'm doing now, is recognizing that trauma education changed me not only as a lawyer, but also as a leader. And I'm excited to talk about how we put that into practice at Valare.
- [04:22]
E
Yeah. And I came into the work. I had actually started as an advocate, a support system in college. I had worked my senior year, and then just after I graduated at my university as an advocate for sexual assault survivors on campus. The work was really important to me. I'd always sort of believed in it. Honestly. The, like, funny story is I got into all of this because I loved watching Law and Order, which is hilarious. I don't watch it anymore as a protective mechanism for myself, but I used to. And I think, like, the interesting thing about my journey in this is that during my time at my university, I actually found out that a very close friend that I had known my entire life was an offender, had been harming people in my community. And that was a real challenge for me. And it felt like in some ways, an opportunity for me to give back and support survivors who had been impacted. And so this work just sort of spiraled. It made sense to me, and I. I kept going with it and then had the honor to join what was then nvrdc just over 13 years ago. And so I have dedicated most of my adult career to working directly with survivors who've experienced violence and trauma. And it's been a really incredible journey. And I always ask, I'm always like, can I ask our director of advocacy? I'm like, can I go back to the hospital and take on call shifts? It's like this really beautiful moment of how incredibly resilient people can be and how trusting. There's just like such a connection in that room with an individual who's experienced trauma. And so I feel very honored that I've been able to do this work for so long.
- [06:06]
B
Oh, wow. And I was sharing with you that I was working in domestic violence and with sexual assault survivors when I was a director of development in Virginia. This was before we really talked about ethical storytelling and trauma informed storytelling and how to be a trauma informed organization. So let's start maybe with Lindsay, like in your work, like, what does it truly mean for an organization to be trauma informed? And like, how can we embed that into the DNA of our culture?
- [06:38]
E
Oh my gosh. This is our favorite thing to talk about. Yes. I think, you know, SAMHSA has a model of like, what are the six pillars of a trauma informed organization or space? And it's the principles that we take as advocates really seriously when we're working directly with clients. And I think it's thinking about for your individual organization, how con the concepts of safety and empowerment and peer support collaboration can all be embedded in the work that you do. We've taken that pretty seriously within our own organization, obviously because of how taxing the work can be. And really try to create very clear roadmaps for staff of how they should expect to experience their managers, us as leaders in the organization, each other provide ways for them to have the peer support and collaboration. And I could honestly talk about this for an hour, but I think those are just a few key points that you have to figure out for your own organization. What are going to be the ways to embed these pretty big broad concepts? And there's really easy things that you can do like building psychological safety for staff. So having a code system for what, what you mean when you send an email, what the expectation is, especially for those who are intersecting with trauma or maybe have experienced it in the workplace, which we know is the vast majority of adults in the US it helps us and our brains map to safety to make sure that we can be a productive part of an organization, especially ones doing such important work.
- [08:17]
D
I think about being a trauma informed organization is similar to being an effective leader. You don't wake up one day and think like, I did it, I'm here. The Work is always happening like every single day and check a box. Right, Exactly. You have to go into the organization with a flexible mindset that what felt trauma informed yesterday and that practice and policy to implement it might look different under the conditions we're operating today. And so I think it's as equally important of thinking about what trauma informed organizations are. I think it's important to think about what they're not. Cause this is what prevents leaders from pushing for trauma responsive leadership. It does not mean we are not committed to excellence. People think you can't strive for excellence and be trauma informed, that there's a tension there. And that is not true. Right. Really means being clear about the behaviors that are celebrated and the behaviors that are not tolerated. That's what trauma responsiveness is. And then making sure accountability is a part of that fabric. I think so much in our work and not just in the nonprofit space, we see this in the corporate sector too. There's this misunderstanding that if I'm a trauma informed leader, I'm not going to be able to hold people accountable. And that's just absolutely not true. The best trauma informed leaders are very clear about what is expected to what accountability looks like when those expectations aren't met. And it's really about understanding the nuance. We talk about this in our training of being nice versus being kind. A nice supervisor, a nice leader might smile through the times you misstep and not give very clear specific feedback. A kind leader is very clear about where the expectation wasn't met, what the expectation is moving forward and sticking to that boundary of what is expected in that supervision relationship. And so it's just sort of unpacking a little bit of what we've been taught to think about what it means to be a trauma informed organization and reframing somewhat what this can actually look like in practical supervision.
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B
Right. And to sort of, you know, piggyback on that question in this line of work. And I think in a. For a lot of my listeners, they are working on really tough issues. Really hard issues. They are, you know, either they're a program officer or whether they're trying to raise money or whether they're an executive director. And I think, you know, how do we as leaders, like how have you built resilience within your teams and for yourself as leaders when you're dealing with these incredibly heavy topics? Bridget, do you want to go?
- [10:51]
D
Yeah, I'll kind of frame out maybe the high level approach that we've used. And again, as Lindsey mentioned, this looks different for the fabric of any organization based on their unique culture. But at the top level, it's practices and policies, right? What are the practices where we embed resiliency as a value into the culture of caretaking in our organization, at our work? That's excessive pto. I don't mean generous. We have excessive pto. It's making sure we plan for the ability to have sabbaticals when people have committed 10 or more years. It's figuring out how we bring actual support to our organization staff, whether that's mental health and therapy support or professional development. That's going to help grow an interest area they have. It's really unique to what that individual feels like is going to help sustain their passion. All the way down to giving leaders actual dollars to invest in their people. And these are small amounts. But investing in people when they're struggling with the loss of a pet or a family member or a health issue, or giving discretion to leaders to say you get to decide how to invest in those people so they feel cared for has been really, really powerful as a sustaining passion sort of practice. And of course then it's leaders modeling the resiliency behaviors and building that into supervision strategies. But ultimately it's about individual transformation. And what I mean by this is we can't build resilient teams if we are not building the resiliency and the leaders that really model that for them. And it's really easy to forget how we need these daily practices. And Lindsay and I do resiliency training for lots of different teams. I am so lucky to have an accountability partner, which is really how Lindsay supports me. So not only do I practice some of the strategies like gratitude and others that in the research show great outcomes in supporting vicarious trauma symptoms, but Lindsey really holds me accountable to making sure if I'm not equipped to show up in a hard conversation or a supervision discussion at my best, that I can convey that to her, that we can develop a plan and that we can. While I might be being impacted myself with the moment or the reality of the day, that that can't trickle down and impact the folks that are really looking to me to continue to maintaining resiliency even in those hard moments. And so for me, the answer is, Lindsey is my accountability partner. She's the thing that has really been key for me. Not feeling alone as a leader in this work that's really, really challenging day to day.
- [13:26]
E
Julie, I'm sure you this might resonate with you, right? But like, I do feel like this can be a really lonely Space for leaders. And there's an expectation often that like, we should be in service to our staff, which I agree with. But it's almost at our own expense of really like burning ourselves out to make sure that the really important work happens. And so I think it's like we've been fortunate enough with each other to be able to model the behavior. We give staff off for a week in August, that's like we totally shut down. We have another week off between the winter holidays, so Christmas and New Year's that we also shut the organization down. And like, we try really hard to not check our emails and not do some of the, you know, not send the 3am emails. And I think honestly we've been incredibly lucky that as we've transformed as an organization, Bridget's been so forward thinking about what she wants the organization to look like, to have these resilient traits and to know that we want good people to stay in the work and it's not worth it to burn ourselves out on it and not be able to come back. And so we have to build in the strategies and structures to do that.
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B
I think that's so important and transitioning into the world of fundraising and fund development. And we were talking about this before when, you know, I was talking about my experience working in domestic violence and raising money for these programs. And I found it much more challenging than I had originally thought that it would be. As you both know, myths and misconceptions and stereotypes and misinformation out there. So what have you learned about engaging, you know, both maybe board members and inspiring donors to kind of support this trauma related work? And Bridget, I don't know if you want to go first.
- [15:23]
D
Yeah, I have some thoughts on this, as I'm sure, Julie, we could have a whole separate conversation on this challenge. We were joking beforehand that when you're trying to drive investments for the work that we do, we don't have the benefit of having cute puppies and kittens. Right. To real people and even start the conversation. We always joke that we are the killer to a happy hour dialogue.
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B
Oh, yeah, we're exactly, exactly.
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D
The second people are like, what do you do?
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B
Oh, I work in domestic violence. Oh, and then no one wants to talk to you.
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D
Exactly. And it's, it's by design, like, the human brain is designed to create these protective factors of like, think about that thing. If I don't know what to do if that thing happens, it won't happen to me. Right. Like, and so we are facing such a psychological Hurdle. When it comes to the world of fundraising and talk about things being lonely, this is probably, probably one of the loneliest places to occupy because you don't have all the same camaraderie and benefits of the services team that are in the trenches together every day holding these trauma spaces when you're sort of zoomed out at that fundraising level. And so from my perspective, and we have such a great board, and I'm so lucky for the support and the backbone that they provide, but it really is equipping the folks who are ambassadors of these organizations with the right strengths and tools to navigate the psychological hurdle. People don't like asking for money. They really don't like asking for it when it's about hard things. And so what I like to do is reframe. We give people a gift when we allow them to know the places they can invest around issues they care about that keep their communities safer. And so reframing for the ambassadors of we are not burdening people by allowing them to understand the impact of a dollar at our organization that is, in fact, a benefit for those folks. And then, of course, at the actual fundraising level, I think it is an important pivot to. Instead of thinking about the deficit. Right. The impacts of trauma, which are so far reaching and significant, that's not always going to motivate people. We need to focus on how does investing in trauma supportive care actually build stronger, more resilient communities, and how does that save us all? Not only the human cost of not doing that, but actual dollars. And so thinking about framing it as the positive impact and not this deficit mindset that we're so used to sort of responding to in the fundraising world.
- [17:50]
B
Exactly. Do you have that same experience, Lindsay?
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E
I do, but Bridget's really the expert on that one.
- [17:57]
B
Yeah, I agree. I really think that nonprofits need to stop kind of shying away from the work that we do. We need to really be shedding light on it and talking about it authentically and sharing that these are problems that are not isolated and not in a silo and not sort of little in a box in the corner, that it really affects everything in our community. I love that you have a podcast, so I think that's amazing. I am such a big. Well, obviously I'm a fan of podcasts, but I just wish more nonprofits would have podcasts because storytelling and humanizing sort of the brand is so important to build trust and build affinity with an audience. So you both co host. On top of everything else, you're doing your podcast is called Trauma Ties. So I want to know, you know, how did you start it? How has podcasting helped expand your mission? I don't know, Lindsay, if you want.
- [18:55]
E
To go first, I can, but Bridget, feel free to jump in. So Traumatized was Bridget's brainchild, and it was exactly what you're saying. Like, this idea that connecting with the audience and getting to have longer and more meaningful conversations around the ways in which trauma impacts our community was the space that we wanted to be able to offer. And it's shifted a lot. We're going into our first fourth season, which we'll be recording soon, and, you know, we've had the opportunity to talk to folks in spaces where you wouldn't necessarily think that trauma might have an impact. And it has been such an honor. Like, we talked to a survivor, a teacher. This one feels maybe obvious, but of Sandy Hook, she was one of the teachers that saved her class that day.
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B
Oh, my gosh.
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E
It was one of the most moving conversations that we've had. But, you know, we've talked to folks who do trauma informed architecture. Like, the thing that I love so much about the Traumatized podcast is that we get to make connections for people where we see them. Right? We know that people experience and deal with trauma in lots of ways that you wouldn't think about, and we get to sort of bring that to light. And for us, that's such a beautiful thing because we think and live and breathe in the ways that trauma impacts individuals lives all the time. But I think a lot of it. I will just highlight that one of the things when we were talking about the last season that we really wanted to highlight is this, like, trauma in unknown spaces. And it came out of the story from Uvalde where there was an individual who made individualized caskets for the children that were murdered based on, like, what their hobbies were at the time, like, hand painted them. And it was this sort of belief in understanding that, like, that individual doing that. It was really impactful. Right. For the families, but also, like, how hard is that to sit and hold that by yourself? And so we wanted to shine light on places that we see the connection between trauma and someone's everyday life or spaces where it might come up. And we've just been incredibly lucky to be able to get to do that. I don't think I answered your question at all, but I just love talking about the podcast and the opportunities.
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B
I know. So I love. I love to know about podcasting, you know, sort of like, who is it for? And the sort of what are maybe some ways that it surprised you? What are some conversations or some connections that you've made because of this podcast? No, Bridget, you want to go?
- [21:29]
D
Lindsay's exactly right. For us, it was, it wasn't even the forward thinking of like, how does Volare as an organization make a connection to grow the network. It was the actual internal connections that people make in their own life about how they've been impacted by trauma. When in the zeitgeist, we've made trauma almost a negative connotation where if we recognize that we know 70% of the US population has experienced one trauma in their lifetime. But because of how we haven't actually taught people really what trauma is and what it means to sort of be trauma responsive, we have this like, I don't want to know what it is and I don't want to identify with it. And our goal was to really humanize how it's so common in architecture and, you know, labor and delivery. Like, we've had the most fascinating folks come on. And our hope and goal is that we don't have an intended audience. We want people to see themselves in a conversation that they never thought they would be a part of. Like, that is the goal for me, what it's meant though is I get to see the depth of the human space, spirit's capacity for resiliency. And we talk about hope, the ability to keep hope through suffering. That's resiliency. And when you listen to the conversations, and not all related to crime or the specific trauma exposures that we deal with day to day, some related to, you know, the developmental spaces of life and identities and lived experiences. But when you get to see how incredibly powerful people are in finding their own resiliency and building that and pulling on it, and the power of community caretaking to support resiliency, the Venn diagram of those two things coming together is like, for me, it's a dream realized. Like being able to put these ideas into people's minds and have them live them in their life and their local communities and their workplace and their individual relationships. You know, at the end of the day, I say all the time, like, I'm Bridget, you know, the CEO and co founder at Vilare. But when we get down to who I am, like, I am a mom of a seven year old girl and an eight year old boy growing up in America. And if I can do anything for their life, what can I do better than helping everyone around them have tools to be trauma informed community caretakers? That's the most beautiful gift I could give them as a moment.
- [23:52]
B
Wow.
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A
That's incredible.
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B
I love that. I cannot wait to listen to this. I'm sure it's. It's pretty heavy, but it's really. These are important conversations, and I think it's what I love about the fact you started a podcast was this is a topic that, you know, it's not normally, like you said, talked about. People really shy away from it. You know, it's not going to, like, go viral and it's not going to, you know, grow your donations by $10 million. It's just not a topic that's going to do that. But it's such an important topic, and it's important conversations that we need to have. And I love that idea of giving a gift to your children, and it's a gift to my children too. So thank you. And when we talk about storytelling, storytelling is incredibly powerful. I talk a lot about storytelling, and I know where my audience struggles is they struggle to walk the line between, you know, elevating survivor stories, but also being ethical and prioritizing dignity, prioritizing, like, safety. What advice do you have?
- [24:56]
A
Because you two are the experts in this.
- [24:59]
E
Oh, that's a great question. And I feel like you've been sitting in meetings with us. Like, we have had this conversation around storytelling and the power of it for 13 years. And it honestly for us wasn't until pretty recently that I think we've gotten to a place where we feel comfortable and have a process on how to ask and elevate survivors stories. And that is because of the things that you identified, like how do we do it in an ethical way? How do we prioritize the person's safety? And so we've done a couple of things in the last probably five years where we've started what we call a survivor advocacy council. So survivors who had received our services, at some point, asking them to join this council, and they do a bunch of different things. They provide feedback, like on our website, like, we just changed our website and they go through and do that. But one of the main goals is really giving them the opportunity to tell their story the way that they want to in a way that's empowering. What we've had to reframe for a lot of our staff internally, but for people in general, is that this is just like another service, right? This is a tool that we are offering. It's not forced. And we're there to help guide them, just like we would help somebody apply for benefits. Right? Storytelling is A way for a survivor of any type of trauma to reframe and give the community an understanding of the impact that it's had. And the way that we do that, you know, with dignity and safety, is consent. We ask and we roadmap for them. Here are the places where we might ask if we can take X, Y, Z thing out of your story because of a safety concern that we have. Right. We'll talk to you about that before we do it. But our job is to be the Google Maps for them. Right. To roadmap how this might go. Ultimately, they get to make the decision about how and what they share. And we do that in lots of different ways, like whether that's at our annual benefit where we ask someone to come and speak about their experience, or with our council, with the D.C. city Council going and testifying. Right. All of these are ways that we're providing an option for a survivor to use their story to create some sort of change. We're just sort of facilitating that. And that's been the reframing, the reshaping for us that I think has been really impactful for our staff, feeling more comfortable with it.
- [27:28]
D
That's exactly right. It's that empowerment pillar of the trauma, responsive principles. And at the end of the day, the thing that always kind of broke my heart is how frequent service staff, you know, in various fields are like, well, I can't ask them because it's. There's going to be almost a coercion or a pressure there. And my thought was, will we build a different system? Someone else is asking. We build, like, any options on a menu. Some people get a lot of healing out of sharing their story if it's done in a safe, productive way. And what I have always thought is, don't we actually take something? Isn't it actually a disservice as someone who's a support structure for an individual navigating the concepts of trauma to assume they don't want to do it, that is way more harmful than giving them the choice. And I think that's the key to thinking about storytelling in these really heavy fields where people are so hesitant to shine the spotlight like you talked about, Julia, it's. We always ask, we ask everyone, we standardize it, and it is just another empowerment tool that we have on the array of menu options that exist within our organization.
- [28:35]
E
Yes.
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B
That's such great advice. I just know that's something so many nonprofits struggle with. Another thing I know my listeners and I struggle with right now is the. I guess I can say cesspool, that is social media. So I'm wondering for your organization that unfortunately, I'm sure can be very polarizing on social media. I mean, everything is polarizing now. You like apples and someone says, why don't you like oranges? And then it gets into, you know, flame more online. But I'm always interested to learn about like in this digital world that is literally benefiting from division, how can we continue to market and do outreach and.
- [29:17]
A
Reach new audiences on social media while.
- [29:20]
B
Managing, you know, the fact that it might be re traumatizing for some of our employees and some of our people that manage it. So I know that's a big question, but I don't know, Bridget, if you want to go first, I'll go first.
- [29:31]
D
But I know Lindsay is going to have better thoughts on this. You know, it's interesting because I always go back to like the organizational values. Like we don't share anything inconsistent with our values. We focus on the community caretaking. Right. We focus on awareness. Like people unfortunately have to know we exist, how to access our support. And so we almost have this layered obligation of making sure, to your point, about who's the audience. Like we have a youth focused project. Where are you going to find out about services if they're not disclosing to the adults in their life that might know about those entry points? Well, they're probably going to look on social media. And it does create this, I think, really complicated experience for our engagement team who's really responsible for producing the content, tracking the content, engaging with other online content. And that of course, we know from how we understand trauma that simply being in proximity, witnessing other stories of trauma can have the same physiological psychological impacts. And so some of it is just recognizing that our engagement team that is not interfacing directly with clients every single day has the same exact risk for vicarious trauma because of their job, engaging with this online content that we would think about for our service staff and then building those support structures in place and not leaving anyone out of that resiliency plan.
- [30:50]
B
Lindsay?
- [30:51]
E
Yeah, and I'll just the, I'll add that like it's just having, as Bridget sort of mentioned, these clear guideposts about what we do and don't respond to how we deal with people who maybe are engaging in a way that feels targeted or cruel, not engaging in those conversations on social media. But honestly it's, it is, it's a responsibility to make sure that people know we exist. And so continuing to post, even though it is a very divisive space currently or maybe always has been, and just uplift the way that we can, the resources that are available and make sure that people know that we are a safe space for sort of anybody who might need to engage with our services. And that's through. We have very like, cool young folks that have much more, like, much more grounded in what is cool to talk about on social media than Bridget and I. And that has been helpful, especially when we're thinking about a more youthful audience wanting to look for services.
- [31:49]
B
Right. No, that's so helpful. Not going silent, even though you know it can be a disheartening. Sometimes the conversations that are happening can be disheartening. I've taught social media for about 20 years. So the ebbs and flows and the. It just seems right now that I know a lot of my clients, a lot of nonprofits are struggling with how to. How to balance that, how to create that safe space and reach out to people that really do need their services and create awareness, but then how to actually protect themselves when it just becomes like too overwhelming and too negative. So I think that's incredibly helpful. I want to go into the rebrand of the network for victim recovery of D.C. into the new name Volare. How did that happen? How did that come up and how's the rebrand been going?
- [32:41]
D
Yeah, it was an exciting year for us as this launched in January. And it really was simply about aligning our brand and scope. We had been NBRDC for many years, and that was rooted in the fact that we served the districts of Columbia and individuals who've experienced harm in D.C. and we've realized when we were able and fortunate enough to bring on an organization that's focused on appellate advocacy for gender based violent survivors across the country, that our reach had really grown and we needed a brand and a name that reflected that one for clarity. So people knew how to find us. But we had been doing other national scope impact work through our trauma education project that launched a few years ago. And also much of our advocacy is already done at the federal level because of how we're situated, whether that's Title IX or crime victims rights reform. We were already in this kind of national space, but didn't have a name to truly reflect that. And so it was really nice to step in to a name. It actually means to fly. And when we think about our original brand of this kind of phoenix rising out of the recovery, that's often the key to making sure trauma survivors are able to continue in their resiliency. Path. It was really beautiful to maintain some of those original elements of our brand in this new name and it's been really well received. Received and an exciting process. I say that now that we are like through the But Lindsay might have a different perspective on this.
- [34:14]
E
No, it has, it has. It's also a song. Valerie is a song which we most frequently get asked by folks a little bit older than us who will be like, oh, it's like the song. But it's been, it's been pretty amazing. And we had this incredible team who actually helped us with the rebrand pro bono, which we did through Capital One, which was incredible.
- [34:35]
B
Amazing, wonderful. Well, where can our listeners learn more about your training and your resources?
- [34:41]
D
Yeah. Visit our website@valare-empowers.org and if you go to Allies and Partners on the homepage there you can even request training if you want to bring our trauma informed education to a team near you.
- [34:56]
B
Fantastic. This has been wonderful. I will put that in the show notes and list out other ways that people can connect. I've really appreciated your time and your insight, your wisdom and just your inspiration. So thank you both for the amazing work that you do and the important work that you do.
- [35:13]
E
You too. Thank you.
- [35:22]
B
Well, hey there.
- [35:23]
C
I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening. Listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then you can find me on Instagram @JuliaCampbell77. Keep changing the world, you non profit unicorn.