Podcast Summary: Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell

Episode: How to Move Your Audience to Actually Act with Caroline Keylock
Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Julia Campbell
Guest: Caroline Keylock, Co-Founder of Lookup

Episode Overview

In this dynamic episode, Julia Campbell sits down with Caroline Keylock, co-founder of the global storytelling consultancy Lookup. The conversation centers around how nonprofits can use storytelling not as a soft skill, but as a strategic lever for real action and change. Julia and Caroline explore how to move audiences to tangible action, the power of hope and progress in narrative, and practical frameworks for crafting persuasive, memorable stories—even around difficult topics. Filled with actionable wisdom and industry insights, the episode encourages nonprofits to reframe storytelling as their most valuable competitive advantage.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Storytelling as a Strategic Lever, Not a Soft Skill

• Storytelling is Innate: As humans, we instinctively tell stories to make sense of the world and connect with others. Yet, in professional contexts, especially in nonprofits, storytelling is often undervalued or dismissed as just another marketing tool.

• Reframing its Value:

  "Stories are the absolutely core skill that we need to have, and so they shouldn't be seen as something that's fluffy." – Caroline Keylock [04:11]

• Driving Impact: Storytelling helps nonprofits compete on authenticity in ways that budgets and resources cannot.

2. From Organization’s Story to Audience’s Story

• Audience-Centric Approach: Nonprofits often excel at explaining their own cause, but true engagement requires stepping into the audience’s shoes and understanding their needs, interests, and motivations.

• Example: When helping a dementia-focused nonprofit pitch to the media, Caroline urged them to prioritize what the media’s readers care about—not just the organization’s statistics.

• Jeopardy as a Lever:

  • Identify and open with “jeopardy” (what keeps the audience up at night).
  • Use intrigue, inspiration, or fear (carefully) to make the story resonate.

  "You have to put yourself in the shoes of the person who's listening to you. It's not your story. You're entering their story." – Caroline Keylock [05:10]

3. Hope and Progress in Difficult Narratives

• The Fatigue Problem: Constantly negative stories lead to audience burnout and disengagement (e.g., "snow blindness").

• Solution: Offer Agency and Progress

  • Frame stories with hope and a plan, not just the problem.
  • Show what has been accomplished, and how the audience can help.

  "We have to give hope, we have to give a plan, we have to communicate progress." – Caroline Keylock [11:57]

• Memorable Moment: Julia relates this to the infamous ASPCA commercial, noting that stories which dwell only on pain can repel rather than motivate. [13:25]

4. Borrowing Structure from Entertainment

• Learning from Master Storytellers: Lookup interviews professionals from film, literature, and speechwriting to inform their storytelling frameworks for nonprofits.

• Classic Archetypes for Change-making Stories:

  • Defeating the Monster: Overcoming a big challenge (e.g., apathy, a social ill)
  • Quest: A journey to a better future, audience as companions
  • Rags to Riches: Achieving a grand goal together
  • Rebirth: Returning to a better past or transforming for the future

  "There are actually seven different story types... When we do training... we tend to focus on four when it comes to stories that really drive change." – Caroline Keylock [16:25]

• Practical Application: These rhythms make stories memorable and easier to structure. [19:35]

5. The Role of Research and Listening

• Stay Curious & Leave the Bubble: Study not only direct beneficiaries but also unexpected, even opposing, audiences.

• Bridge-building: Seek to understand the motivations of those who may not agree, so stories can reach and possibly persuade them.

  "Not just the audiences that you're reaching, but some of the ones that you might think you can never convince, but you still need to learn from." – Caroline Keylock [22:50]

6. Measuring the Effectiveness of Storytelling

• Internal vs. External Metrics:

  • Internal: Alignment, staff clarity, strategic decisions.
  • External: Specific audience changes, not just awareness or clicks.

• Tailored KPIs: Define the desired outcome before crafting the story, and track change over time rather than in campaign bursts.

  "There needs to be a really specific goal with the story that you're telling and what you're trying to achieve with it." – Caroline Keylock [25:44]

7. Sector-wide Challenges and the Call for Community

• White Noise Problem: Nonprofits risk being drowned out without distinct, hopeful narratives and community-building.

• Building Real Community: Go beyond campaigns and create relationships where supporters help tell your story.

  "Building genuine relationships and building communities that can do a lot of our storytelling for us needs to be the focus." – Caroline Keylock [27:06]

8. Practical First Steps for Small Nonprofits

• Map Audience Jeopardy: Identify what your various audiences care about; tailor your message to each.

• Balance Emotion and Data:

  • Use both compelling numbers (“narrative in numbers”) and powerful anecdotes.
  • Integrate big-picture facts (zoom out) with personal stories (zoom in).

  "If you're absent of any statistics...you've missed an opportunity to ground your story. ... Those two things work together... fantastically." – Caroline Keylock [30:33]

Notable Quotes

• On Shifting Perspective:
  “You have to put yourself in the shoes of the person who's listening to you. It's not your story. You're entering their story.” – Caroline Keylock [05:10]

• On Storytelling as Core Skill:
  “Stories...shouldn't be seen as something that's fluffy.” – Caroline Keylock [04:11]

• On Giving Hope:
  “We have to give hope, we have to give a plan, we have to communicate progress.” – Caroline Keylock [11:57]

• On Classic Story Archetypes:
  “The monster might be apathy.” – Caroline Keylock [17:03]

• On Community Storytelling:
  “Building genuine relationships and building communities that can do a lot of our storytelling for us needs to be the focus.” – Caroline Keylock [27:06]

Memorable Moments & Recommendations

• Pixar Storytelling Advice: Julia references a classic article by a Pixar executive, highlighting the value of entertainment storytelling techniques. [20:10]
• Book Recommendations for Story Structure:
  • The Seven Basic Plots by Christopher Booker
  • The Hero with a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell
• Caroline’s Current Reading: Swing Time by Zadie Smith, for emotive, brilliant storytelling. [32:48]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:11] – Storytelling as strategic, not “fluffy”
• [05:10] – “Entering their story”: Audience-first narrative
• [11:57] – Necessity of hope and a plan in storytelling
• [16:25] – Four classic story archetypes for nonprofits
• [19:35] – Applying story rhythms for memorability
• [22:50] – Learning from diverse and opposing audiences
• [25:44] – Setting KPIs for effective storytelling
• [27:06] – Building community for sustainable storytelling
• [30:33] – Balancing emotional stories with data

Where to Find Caroline and Lookup

• Substack: wearelookup.substack.com – Storytelling advice, interviews, and upcoming live sessions.

Final Reflection

Caroline Keylock and Julia Campbell highlight that nonprofits’ most powerful tool is the authentic, strategic story—crafted with empathy, progress, community, and rhythm. Understanding your audience’s story, giving agency and hope, and mixing emotional appeal with facts are essential to moving people from awareness to action.