← Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
Reconnecting With Your Mission’s Biggest Fans with Gustavo Zylberberg
00:35:44
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- [00:00]
A
Planning a nonprofit fundraising event can feel overwhelming, but it doesn't have to. Download Bloomerang's free event planning checklist that walks you through every critical step before, during and after your event. Save time, reduce stress. We don't need more stress. And give your supporters an event they'll remember. What you're going to find in the checklist A step by step pre event guide. A post event checklist to help you close the loops. Built in reminders to boost visibility like prepping social media posts and how to collect on site donations and help turn a good event into a great one. So just get your copy by going to www.jcsocialmarketing.com backslash checklist jcsocialmarketing.com checklist now on to the episode.
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B
Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience and effect build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started.
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A
Hello, this is Nonprofit Nation and I am Julia Campbell. Today we're really going to try to answer the question, what if your nonprofit's most passionate support supporters aren't just your new donors or your current volunteers, but the people who that have been part of your mission in the past, maybe even years ago, which I think is just a really exciting potential audience to reach out to. So today I'm going to talk with Gustavo Zilberberg, founder of Vital C, which is an AI powered engagement platform built to help nonprofits reconnect with the former staff and donors who still care deeply but may have fallen off the radar. So, Gustavo, it's so nice to have you here.
- [02:36]
C
Thanks so much for having me, Julia. It's a pleasure.
- [02:38]
A
Yes. So I talk to a lot of people that have built CRMs, that have built fundraising platforms, that have built wealth screening platforms, that have built generative AI platforms. But let's talk about this company. What makes it different and sort of what was the gap you saw? What inspired you to create VitalSee?
- [02:59]
C
Yeah, so I, from my own personal experience as a parent of children who are in youth sports and activities, I watched those organizations struggle with Fundraising and starting over every year and every season and every session and really identify that there's a problem. The problem is that no one's leveraging the past who still care and are still sharing the same values with the organization to create outcomes that help the organizations continue to thrive. And you just brought up some. Some great points, Julia. You know, There are these CRMs and newsletters and social media and all of these aspects that are out there, but those are more audiences. They're not communities. So what we built is a community that re engages former supporters, whether it's staff members, volunteers, parents, et cetera, anyone that was part of that community, and then engages them by leveraging the tools that are out there through generative AI and does it so that staffs and current staffs and teams don't have to do the work themselves and aren't focused on what are they going to say next. We kind of leverage the history of the organization and the capturing storytelling to really engage the community, bring them back to life, and ultimately improve support through donations.
- [04:17]
A
How does VitalSee actually find and re engage these communities and build these communities? Like, what's happening behind the scenes with the technology?
- [04:26]
C
What we do is we start any organization we partner with. The first thing we do is we capture its history. So whether it's oral or if it's content, we train our AI on the history of the organization. And then we take the existing databases, whether those are parts of CRMs, social media followings, et cetera, direct mail, whatever it may be, and then we invite users onto our platform. And then we also empower members of the community to invite others. So if it's someone that they've lost contact with. We both know that nonprofits are probably not the best at keeping clean data. So we reignite the community by empowering different members and different ambassadors to help bring them back, and then also bring their contacts and their friends back as well, so that the stories can be told and the memories can be shared.
- [05:13]
A
So it's really people inviting people and you're giving them the tools to do that.
- [05:19]
C
Combination of a few things, yeah. We often find that members of the. Of the nonprofit that may not have been on the mailing list or a part of the social media, they're not on social media. They'll go on the website and request to join themselves once they see that this is out there so that they can see themselves in different historical aspects. We work with organizations like schools and camps and halels and organizations that have rich history that that includes photo and videos and things along those lines so that we'll find that users often find it themselves just by hearing about it, visiting the website and requesting to sign up on their own.
- [05:55]
A
So why do you think so many nonprofits are just terrible at keeping in touch with their former supporters or even former participants? Because I see this as well. My kids have participated in 10,000 activities and camps and various things throughout the years, and I feel like there's just a handful that actually keep in touch with me.
- [06:14]
C
Yeah, I think that answer and the answer to probably a lot of the questions that we'll have during this conversation is always going to come down to bandwidth. Bandwidth and resources and wearing too many hats. Arguably it's whatever the current problem is, the current fire that they're putting out. And the issue is that they're passively updating social media, they're sending newsletters, they're hosting events and galas, but they're not really engaging a community. And I think that that's what we do is we take the bandwidth aspect out of it and turn them into approvers and not so by leveraging AI to build content, to orchestrate content, and to also capture things from the community through automation, we take the issue away from the bandwidth and use it as a strength.
- [06:58]
A
Oh, all right. So you talk about turning ghosts, quote unquote, into advocates. How can we turn these people that, I mean, like, what's the incentive for them to re engage? Like, what are some things that we can use that are in our, our wheelhouse? Maybe like in our little bag of tricks to really re engage people that haven't even engaged with us. And like, actually another question is how long should you wait? Like, do you go back? How far back do you go? So it's kind of a two pronged question.
- [07:33]
C
What we have found is that in, in the world of non profits, that there's passion and, and that passion is already out there. It's not starting from zero. It's just collecting the passion and bringing it into a unified community or a unified platform. And then it's what I think the most powerful thing that that's done is, is the storytelling. We automate storytelling by prompting users to share their memories, to share why they care, to share why they come back, why they donate, why they send their kids to the organizations that they were a part of, and then turning those into interviews and features by again, by leveraging AI and really making it although it's automated and it's done by AI, there's a human component that, that's not Lost because it is ultimately approved by the organization. And the messaging and the tone really does resonate with what the organization is trying to communicate out.
- [08:25]
A
But do you think there is like a time limit on when you should re engage someone? Say they haven't opened an email from you and a year, I don't know, two years. They haven't participated in five years. I don't know what the time limit might be like. What's the ideal sweet spot for re engagement?
- [08:42]
C
I wouldn't want to say that. I have a uniform.
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A
Probably different.
- [08:45]
C
Yeah, yeah. It's just case by case. So I'll tell you that in the world of summer camps, which I never attended an overnight summer camp, they're so engaged that, that I agree.
- [08:55]
A
I didn't haven't attended summer camp in how many years? I'm not going to say. But I still think about my summer camp and love my summer camp.
- [09:02]
C
Yeah, that use case is so unique that you could go 50 years. One of the summer camps we're working with has a 97 year old who logs in two to three times a week and she shares her stories. Yeah, she shares pictures from her bunk in 1938 and it's amazing. We're watching on the sidelines. And again, personally, I'm not a camper, but it's so cool to see. So in that use case, I think you can go back as far back as your community exists. But in some things, like independent schools, which is another use case for us, the window is probably a bit shorter because people go in different directions and you probably want to capture them sooner. And the same goes for parents of students at independent schools. So I think it depends on the use case. But as you brought up, camps or camps are one where we find long term value.
- [09:47]
A
What kind of messaging is most effective when you're trying to re engage these sort of. I mean, I know we talk a lot about lapsed donors, but you're talking more about lapsed participants and supporters in general. What kind of messaging should we be using?
- [10:01]
C
The word that comes to mind for me is authenticity. Whatever it is that you're really after, if donations is what you're after, I don't think you should shy away from it. I think you should double down on it. And it's really about this is what the organization. We're a nonprofit and sometimes people don't even know that they go to a nonprofit camp or school or whatever it might be. They just say, wow, you're charging a lot of money, but this is what it actually does. And this is what the donations do and educating the community on why they're raising money and what that money buys. And then obviously everyone talks about stewardship, but recognizing the donation of time or dollars or in treasure does into a community builds a philanthropic culture that will help maintain sustainability.
- [10:46]
A
I think that's really interesting. And you talk a lot about storytelling, the ability of people to share their own stories and then potentially engage other people that have been involved in the organization. So is this something that is automated in Vital C? Like is Vital C a platform where you're building a community and it lives on your platform and people are invited to go there.
- [11:15]
C
So it's through an organization's website, but we're the host of the platform. They can reduce what their content wise what's on their website and just move it over to ours, which is a common theme that we've seen with customers. But the aspect of storytelling, the automation of it by just building prompts within user profiles. You just ask it a user, 6 questions, 10 questions, 15 questions, whatever the organization is looking to capture and then it's basically spun into a story. It captures really the emotional connection that's there and it inspires others to do it once it's done by one. So I think that that side of it, its impact really to go to the word that we're capturing, is the impact that it has on individuals, the impact that it has on famil and the impact that it has on the overall community.
- [12:01]
A
So I know that you have worked with camps and Hillels and Boys and Girls Clubs and a lot of membership organizations. What do the most successful organizations have in common when it comes to keeping this community engaged?
- [12:17]
C
I foreshadowed a little bit earlier and it's actually bandwidth we turn their opportunity into an automated community. It's not. You asked what makes them successful and I think what makes them successful is that we're doing something now that it's consistent and it has certain level consistency. Exactly. So by building consistency and building messaging that lasts and that resonates the outcomes follow.
- [12:42]
A
Okay, consistency. So say I'm a one person development shop and I really am interested in dipping my toe into re engaging maybe former donors or former staff members. What is sort of one like the first step that I should take?
- [12:59]
C
I think it's setting the outcome. Is the goal to re engage them to communicate what the organization's working on or is it to really engage them, to convert them into current donors? Once that's done, whether you're partnering with VitalSea or not partnering with VitalSea, I think then your strategy follows or your tactics follow the strategy. And knowing what the community is going to be helpful for, that would be the first thing is to really identify, really identify that, that you're not leveraging that community and then create a strategy to engage them with a desired outcome.
- [13:31]
A
Do you think that nonprofits should be more active in engaging former staff or former volunteers first or former clients? Like, what is the segment, maybe that we should focus on? I know it's probably different for everyone, but how do we determine where to look first?
- [13:48]
C
I think it goes back, you know, case by case, case by use. Case, I should say. In the world of camps, I would say without a doubt it's the campers, because you brought up that you have that memory there. In other nonprofits, it might be staff because they're so emotionally tied and they sacrifice income in order to move the mission forward. In some organizations it might be volunteers because the volunteers are what really makes the organization move and go. So I think it would be identifying which segment within your community is the one that provides the greatest value and provides the strongest connection and start there.
- [14:23]
A
What are sort of some of the measurable outcomes that you're seeing from the non profits that are using Vital C? Like, are people focused on this kind of across the board donations, volunteers, event attendance? Like, what's the real ROI again?
- [14:42]
C
Which organization is delivering which outcome they're going for? One of the camps that we're working with just hosted a happy hour after they used us this year or partnered with us this year versus last year. And they, they tripled their donations, which also tripled their attendance. So for them, that was obviously a great outcome that was there for others. Sometimes it's just, it's. It's engagement. How often they're coming back to the platform, the time they're spending on the platform, the connections that are being built? I think for the most part, it's always going to come down almost exclusively to donors because that's the lifeline of a nonprofit. But there are different ways to measure the impact that we're having. But, but I think that at the end of the day, people invest in vitalsea to help invest in the organization.
- [15:26]
A
Are there communities of people that are former clients that have used the services that maybe want to connect with each other? I'm thinking like a cancer, you know, childhood cancer organization where parents can connect or caregivers can connect. Is that more of what you're talking about or you're talking more about organizations that really are Trying to transfer these supporters like and get them back on board. Is there a way to do this client facing?
- [15:54]
C
I think we're appropriate for everything. You just described where our growth has been and our early interest has been has really been on the what you've mentioned earlier on camps and membership based social groups but really working with powerful impactful organizations like cancer and creating those support systems that are there, that's certainly on our radar and within our wheelhouse. It's just that we've been focused initially on where we've seen the most interest.
- [16:20]
A
Yeah, I've seen a lot of like Facebook groups or even LinkedIn groups created around people that have been served by the organization where it's like sort of a private invite only thing and I think that's another powerful group to pull from. There's so many groups that we could pull from. And where should we start looking? Like do we look in our CRM? Do we look in our just in our database and our files to find sort of names and how do we contact people? Do you recommend email? Do you recommend direct mail to try to get them re engaged?
- [16:53]
C
I always use an analogy whenever we have this conversation because that's often the first question. It's one of two questions that we get asked. It's that and of course how much does it cost. It's really those are the two with that first question. The answer is always the best way to plant a tree. The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. And the second best time is today.
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A
Yes.
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C
Starting if you had it 20 years ago and the tree is blooming and built and established, that would be great. But if you're really planting a tree today, you're starting somewhere. You're starting with what you have and it's whatever the strongest channel is, whether that is your direct mail, that is your email, that is your social media audience, whatever it may be. That's where I would start first. But then moving on to the different channels and the different growth patterns so that you can have the community established and built but focus really on where your strongest channel is. Analyst first.
- [17:46]
A
So vital C your platform's model is invite them to this platform to engage. And do you tend to do that? You do that on social media, you do that on email, you do that however people want to be reached.
- [17:58]
C
Correct. So we we pull from a CRM an exported file that goes straight into our platform and it invites whoever is on on that list so that that's through email addresses. We also help automate through social media as well. So we can post on an organization's behalf once they approve and invite users on there as well. It into a very streamlined process where someone is either invited or can follow the path to the platform on their website.
- [18:23]
A
I think for a lot of organizations, whether they're using your platform or not, they really struggle with creating that compelling incentive for people to come back and for people to participate, because they know that a lot of their supporters or donors or volunteers, they participated, and maybe now, you know, they've moved on. But also, I think people are kind of wary about fundraising solicitations and, you know, having it just be transactional. So what are the incentives? Like, what are. What is some of the really great hooks that you use either to get people to open that initial email, to get them to click on the link, you know, to get them to check out the community?
- [19:05]
C
I think the word you used in there was transactional. So we're. We're really focused more on being relational and not have it be, you know, come, click. And then when you click, it's, here's the donor form.
- [19:16]
A
Yes, good.
- [19:18]
C
Yeah, we don't. We definitely don't lead on the donation side, everyone knows at the end of the day, and I brought up educating the community, but educating the community in a soft manner that really says, you're a part of this. We're helping it grow together. Rather than, here's your donor form, and please pay and never hear from us again until we email you again. I think it's the opposite. We're creating weekly content for an organization that really, it drives them back because of the interest level. And a user can set what their interests are. If they want to learn about ways to support the organization, they'll be notified when a campaign launches. If they want to learn, they really just want to read about events or networking opportunities or mentorship. They'll get notified when one of those items gets posted. So we really create internal tagging and segmentation so that the user experience matches the user's desired relationship with the nonprofit.
- [20:14]
A
I think that is so important, and that's something I teach in my digital marketing, digital fundraising courses, is the importance of segmentation and understanding your audience and understanding information that they want to receive. And that's how you're going to really build that community that comes back again and again and again because there's content there that's valuable to them. So what are some examples of this kind of content that you're sharing and creating? Because I think that's another place where nonprofits struggle is what am I going to share? What am I going to come up with? What am I going to think about? We're so close to the work and we're in the weeds and in the trenches that we don't think that what we do is noteworthy in any way. So, yeah. Tell us about some of the content that you create that you recommend sharing in these communities.
- [21:02]
C
I think going back to what you mentioned earlier, you put yourself back when you were in camp, and I think the word that matches that is nostalgia. It brings you back to why, and I think that that's what the content that we create does. It brings you back to why you went, why you enjoyed it, why you clicked on the email to join again. And we definitely lean on nostalgia that we're collecting through onboarding of an organization that AI then kind of runs with and it talks about the sights, the sounds, the smells, what was happening in the world at the time, and then leverages the content that we're creating. We're collecting from an organization like photos and videos and programs and yearbooks and things like that. So really, we take natural human experiences and memories and leveraging AI, which is very, very intelligent and smart. They do a great job, they being AI of connecting those two so that the human element comes back to emotion and connection.
- [22:03]
A
So when you talk about AI, I mean, my audience, they're primarily nonprofit marketers, fundraisers. There's varying levels of comfort and trust and familiarity with AI. For someone that is kind of wary of having AI generated content, how do you address that? I'm sure you get that a lot. So what are sort of the common questions you get and maybe like, what are your. How do you address those. Those common challenges?
- [22:35]
C
So AI is really a societal transformation in terms of. Of what's happening out there in the world right now, where every aspect of life is being impacted either currently or in the very near future by AI. So I think the first thing that those that have that fear would be to familiarize yourself further and create the level of acceptance that you're comfortable with. But it's really, it resembles the Internet revolution 20 years ago, 25 years ago, how originally the fear of talking to someone online was there. Now, 50% of marriages occur from online connections and dating. So I think as society continues to be transformed through these latest technological advances, getting familiar, understanding where your families are, familiarity increases your level of comfort and then starting to slowly leverage those AI things and items into your daily routine and recognizing those benefits so that you're more comfortable with different forms of AI in the future.
- [23:36]
A
I think it's important for people to know we're not Talking about having ChatGPT just make up a bunch of stories about your organization. It's really pulling from content on your website, pulling from content in your annual reports and your email newsletters. That's what I tend to teach my clients, is that I'm not telling you to type into ChatGPT and make up your entire mission statement from scratch. It's using content that you already have, but maybe you're too familiar with. Maybe you're not a copywriter, you know, maybe you're not a marketer by trade, you're a program officer, but you still really want to create interesting content for your community members. So having that partner, having that sort of someone else that's thinking about it in a different way and creating content for a specific group of community members. But I also love that point you made about how they do get to choose what kind of information they're seeing. One other question I can just hear, because I hear my audience's questions when they're listening, I can like almost hear what they're thinking. One question I'm sure people have is, how do we know we're not annoying people? Now, I know my answer to this. You're not annoying them. But what is your answer to that objection like, oh, we're going to be annoying them, we're going to be bombarding them. You know, we don't want to overwhelm them with too much content and too many communications.
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C
That's an interesting question. The organization can decide the frequency of how much content we're posting and the frequency of the type of content or the differentiation of the different content that we're posting as well. We send reports every week saying, this is the number of people that clicked on. These are the number of people that visited the page. This is how many times they clicked on the donate button, this is how many times they. This is how long they spend on the platform. So we have data that really provides insight into the user experience and the user level and also what type of content drives people to the platform. Those are knobs that we can always turn and really fine tune to create the ideal user experience.
- [25:42]
A
And I think it's a lot about the quality as well. You know, if it's high quality, people are going to read it and click on it. And that's what I always say. It's sort of like, how many emails should I send? Well, don't send 10 crappy emails. Send to really, like, well thought out strategic emails or stories that are very authentic. Like, don't just post on Facebook for the sake of posting on Facebook. Really be strategic and meaningful and thoughtful with the content you're sharing. Because you have this attention, you know, you have this attention and this trust, which is the gold for nonprofits. Attention and trust. And if you squander it, it takes a while to build it back. So I know that vitalsee launched in the uk. Are you in other countries too, other than the US and uk?
- [26:32]
C
Nope. We just launched our first partnership in the UK earlier this year and really excited to. Yeah, really excited to expand further out both there and in other markets as well.
- [26:43]
A
What's different there? Because I don't think they do summer camps there, do they?
- [26:48]
C
As much as we know that was. No, it was a school. A school that was over 300 years old, so. Wow.
- [26:53]
A
Well, of course. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. 300 years old. There's a lot of people to choose from.
- [26:59]
C
Yeah, for sure. And there's so many generations, multi generations of families and things along those lines. It's a different culture. I would say from our perspective, it's privacy. And the way the US operates is a little different than Europe in terms of how users are managed and the privacy that comes with it. I mean, we're a very secure network, but there are certain elements that.
- [27:20]
A
Oh, data privacy, much stricter. Okay, do you work with CRMs or do you have the nonprofit sort of export the data, but you're not integrated into a CRM or a website?
- [27:36]
C
We can depending on API availability, but currently the easiest thing is to export a list imported into ours and in the future have integrations if necessary. I would say that right now, the way we're doing it right now is sufficient.
- [27:50]
A
What's a future trend in nonprofit community building that you think we need to be prepared for?
- [27:58]
C
I would say the trend to prepare for would be one where you never really leave a connection, always is there. I can use my kids as an example how my 13 year old still talks to his friends from elementary school because they're all connected in various ways. And I think that in the past we would, from my generation and beyond is you would finish an experience, you would finish time with an organization, and then you would just move on. And I think that the world now is so much smaller and so much more connected that I think that no one will ever truly leave. And what we're building is the. The soft tissue and the connective tissue to connective tissue to allow that to Continue to go on and not rely on social media channels where different aged people are visiting and interacting. Have it just really be one community where the voice is the voice of the organization and not tailored to a social media channel. I think that that's been the recent history and the future is one where the voice and the message and the connection is through the organization.
- [29:03]
A
Yeah, I would agree. I think that people are building up communities on social media, but then they don't own that community. So if you build this huge community like a lot of us did on Facebook back in the day, and then the algorithm changed and you know, everything shifted over at Meta and it really kind of pulled the rug out from under us. And I see, you know, of course, a lot of influencers and organizations building community on TikTok or building community on Instagram. I think that's great to do to like amplify your message and to get people to your community. But I always recommend for nonprofits to have a place that people can connect with you, that you own. So whether it's like a vital C or whether it is a group that you manage somehow on your own, or whether it's an email list that you control just to have that. Because we tend to think, oh, we can create a Facebook group or we can go on LinkedIn or we can, you know, use all of these different channels, which I think is fine to amplify the message, but we don't want to rely on them so much. And is that, is that part of what you're seeing also?
- [30:14]
C
Absolutely. The trends, the trends for us are the channels of different generations are using and it's the trends that are happening from a, particularly in the U.S. at the Federal level, with changes to, to grants and, and federal dollars that are supporting nonprofits. So I think that those two elements, one being the uncertainty of where the next don't, or how budgets are going to be met in the future. And then the other is, well, what happens when someone leaves TikTok or the next generation goes to another platform is you're now left again with the community of folks that are either interacting mildly or completely left the platform. Kind of what's happened with Facebook and who knows with what's with X exactly where someone's personal beliefs may take them off certain platforms as well. So I think that the changes that are happening from a much more societal level are impacting that granularity of how nonprofits are raising money 100%.
- [31:13]
A
We have to take into account everything, cultural shifts and shifts in trust of institutions and shifts in where money is going and shifts in where people are actually donating and where they're participating and how younger generations are donating and participating. And I think that is. I think that's really interesting. I know I personally saw that on Twitter when it was Twitter, and I left Twitter when it became X and I had like 18, 000 followers and I was super engaged on there and I loved it so much. And then I thought, okay, this is a great lesson for me to not build a community in one place, you know, really. So I've been trying to shift to my email list. I've been trying to shift to different things and be in different places. But to have a community that I can communicate with without algorithms. I mean, of course you have the email algorithms and you have the Google algorithms and all of that, but somewhere that I can really talk to people. I love this idea of keeping community members, even maybe before they leave. Like, what are some strategies that we can just engage them right away? Like maybe they've graduated or they're leaving camp or they're leaving the boys and girls club. What are some ways we can like immediately kind of get them re engaged before they're kind of lapsed?
- [32:33]
C
It's engaging them at the peak of their engagement level, which is at the very end. It's, oh, yeah, right. When someone leaves, they. They move on, they graduate, they were a former staff member, whatever it may be, that, or someone is part of an affinity group that, that they're no longer necessarily active in. That's their peak level of engagement where they transition into this community. I would describe it more so not letting them leave by transitioning them immediately. And if it's someone who's younger, they're not going to have necessarily a full account until they're a certain age. But capturing them and engaging them and then making them a part of the community from that stage, it's easier to do that than to find them later and to start a relationship over. It's really maintaining and retaining that relationship.
- [33:22]
A
Oh, so I think that's such an important point. And I love that the focus is on building and maintaining community, because I see, I love the nonprofit software companies out there. I just see a lot of it being around fundraising and marketing, maybe social media management, which I think is all very important. But I love that you have the focus on community building, retaining people, connecting people. Because I've always thought, I mean, this is what I end every presentation, you know, with the thought that our job is not to just gain attention Our job is not to cut through the clutter and the noise. Our job is to build a community of fans that will follow us no matter where we go. And I love that that's what you do. So where can listeners connect with you, Gustavo and learn more about your work?
- [34:15]
C
You can Visit us@vitalsy.com that's V I T-A-L C-Y.com you can follow us on LinkedIn. You can email me if you have any questions ideas at Gustavo G U S t a v oital c.com, i'm assuming it's in the show notes, but just sharing that here as well.
- [34:34]
A
Thank you so much. This has been great and I'm just so happy to have you on the podcast.
- [34:40]
C
Thank you so much, Julia. It was a pleasure. Thank you. Foreign.
- [34:50]
B
Thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then you can find me on Instagram. Juliacampbell77 Keep changing the world, you nonprofit unicorn.
- [35:33]
C
SA.