← Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
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In a world hungry for change, nonprofit impact matters more than ever. Yet every day, you're asked to do more with less. Less time, fewer resources, and tools that weren't even built for the way nonprofits actually work. What if you could do more with more? That's the promise of Bloomerang, the giving platform built for purpose. Bloomerang integrates fundraising, donor, and volunteer management into one intuitive platform. It connects your data to reveal real opportunity, showing you who's ready to give, when to reach out, and how to deepen every relationship. Because when your tools are built for purpose, your mission goes further. More connection, more confidence, more impact. Now that's more like it. Learn how you can do more with more at bloomerang. Com. That's Bloomerang. Com. Now onto the show. Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and I'm gonna with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience, and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people, and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. Hello.
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Hi.
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This is Nonprofit Nation with your host, Julia Campbell. And one of the things I love most about hosting Nonprofit Nation is getting to introduce you to smart, thoughtful people who are doing incredible work behind the scenes to help nonprofits thrive. And this week's guest is exactly that kind of person. I'm joined by my friend Lori Lipstein, founder and CEO of Thread Strategies. Lori brings equal parts strategy, heart, and energy to the nonprofit sector. And after more than two decades working in fundraising, she's seen firsthand what happens when organizations with amazing missions struggle to clearly communicate their impact or secure sustainable funding. So, Lori, welcome.
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Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's so great to be here today.
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A
And this will be coming out after Givecon, the Bloomerang conference in St. Louis. Actually, tell us about the award that you're winning with your clients.
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Yeah, I guess now, since this will come out after, I can talk about it. Today at the Givecon conference that's hosted by Bloomerang in St. Louis, Bread Strategies is winning the Dynamic duo Award with TBRS Community, which is an organization that serves individuals with TBRS syndrome, which is a rare disease. There's only about 450 people diagnosed around the world. And this is the main organization that's raising money to fund research and patient and family services for that community. And we used their support. Super clean data, which I'll definitely end up talking about today. We put together a really robust end of year fundraising campaign that for a small organization with one full time staff member, but a really awesome system set up, was able to double their fundraising from prior year and break their goals. And so that was the nomination, that campaign to Bloomerang and they were chosen as the winners. So we're really excited.
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A
Wow. Well, congratulations. That's awesome. And as my listeners know, Bloomerang is a friend of the podcast, sponsor of the podcast. That's really fantastic. So one full time staff member. That's fantastic. And I know you really work with small nonprofits in particular, but you founded Thread Strategies after you saw nonprofits really struggle to secure funding despite doing incredible work. So what were some of the biggest gaps you noticed in the sector when you founded your business?
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Yeah, well, as a frontline fundraiser for my career prior to being a fundraising consultant, most of the gaps I was noticing were fundraising specific or fundraising related. So those are the ones I'll focus on as I answer you. I'm sure there's probably other gaps and lots of ways that we're all under resourced, but in the fundraising space in particular, a few things that I was experiencing just even as like a donor and a volunteer myself out in the world, I see a lot of nonprofits that operate really reactively when it comes to fundraising instead of strategically and proactively, you know, because they're under resourced or stretched thin. So see a lot of organizations that are chasing funding opportunities instead of building sustainable development systems and actual long term fundraising strategies that build on themselves. And then, you know, finally I'll say just along the lines of what I just talked about with this award, in terms of what makes a lot of really strong fundraising possible, I see a lot of, you know, a major gap in infrastructure and in particular CRMs and data and, you know, clean and complete data and the ability to really methodically track relationships and data in order to build strategies that grow over years. And so those were some of the things we were seeing drove the vision for Thread Strategies. And we really believe that organizations of all sizes are capable and have the the opportunity to use best practices to fundraise just like the big ones do. And this example that I just shared with TBRS community is a perfect example.
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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Oh no. I want to talk more about them. Because what I think is so interesting is this is a disease you said that only 450 or 500 people get internationally every year diagnosed with.
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So.
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So it's a very small. It's nothing like, you know, breast cancer, which, you know, I didn't ever want to be a member of that club. But that's one in eight women, right? So that's a huge community. So I think that that really will stick with some of my listeners because they work on really niche issues or really small communities and they're looking to like, grow support. But how, how do they do that? So I'd be interested to know some of the ways that this organization had a successful fundraising campaign.
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B
It's the same things that work for the organizations of all sizes. You know, it's all about relationships. I'm sure I'm not the first person to say that on the podcast. And all about being really structured and having a plan so that one person can do do a lot more because they're not like scrambling and, you know, chaotically kind of switching gears all the time in terms of fundraising. So this campaign in particular, at the end of the year for this organization, we were able to do eight different segments. So to try to be as personal as possible, again, building those relationships to really identify what are the different segments of at this point in time that we want to talk to within your community, and then how do we want to talk to them A little bit differently, but all in service of the same goal. We were able to do that because their data in their Bloomerang CRM is really clean and really organized. And so we could use the power of Bloomerang as a CRM that has high functionality and the clean and current elements of their data to be really sophisticated in building segments. Even though it's one person with a consultant supporting them, we use matching gifts. The reason they were able to get, we had three matching gifts. So we were able to do that at different moments of a six week campaign at end of the year. The reason she was able to, executive director was able to secure so many matching gifts was because of the relationships that she had built with these donors. To be able to go to them as individual members of their community and ask them to make a larger commitment like that. Again, on the relationship front, she spent time making phone calls to certain segments of donors and sending personal emails. And so I think that it is hard to manage a lot of relationships as a small organization. There is a time element to that. But when you have systems and strategy and process behind it, then you know which relationships to spend the time on and how and when and you can actually schedule it all in. And that makes all the difference in the world. And you can be a team of one like I just shared, or you can be a team of 50 and you're still focusing on relationships and you're still using your systems to support that.
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I love that. So before segmentation, before data collection, I think it all starts with the case for support. And this is where I see a lot of organizations struggling to really convey their, you know, to really refine and improve and structure their case for support. So when we're talking about that, I mean, it sounds sort of jargony, but what is, what exactly does it mean to you?
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B
Yeah, I'm so glad you said that. Because the case for support is definitely where all these relationship based conversations are rooting back to. So a case for support is the core narrative for your organization. It's explaining why your organization exists, what the long term vision is of how the world would be better because of your work. It's calling out the challenges that you're addressing, what your organization is doing about those challenges, really how your programs are addressing those challenges, and why someone should care and make an investment. And that element of a case for support, you'll have one as a nonprofit that's for your full organization, kind of that global case for support. And then you'll end up building out ones that kind of zoom in on various elements of the work. And every time you do a campaign or an appeal, like this example we're talking about with TBRS community for the end of year, having a really strong case for support is kind of what the whole ask is rooted in. And so in, you know, it's so helpful to have this example to talk about. In this example, we put together a really specific case for support for the end of year fundraising that was particular to a program that they were going to be doing in 2026. So that's kind of like an example of zooming all the way in for a case for support that was really specific for one specific appeal. But zooming back out. Every organization should be able to articulate its organization wide case for support as a general starting talking point for conversations that you're having about why someone would want to and should support your organization and its work.
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Exactly. And I, I think that distinction is so important. It's, it's not just like the great work you're doing, but it's why someone should support you. So what are you Seeing as the biggest mistakes that nonprofits make when either developing or communicating their case for support.
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B
It always kind of surprises me how many times organizations kind of struggle to articulate this when it is really the core of the work. I think to be fair to all of us working in this space, I think sometimes we're so in it that we just, we just know it ourselves and then have a hard time kind of translating that to somebody who would be brand new. And how to making. How to make something really complex that you're doing digestible in a conversation, especially to someone new. But a few things that I see kind of getting organizations getting tripped up along those lines. One is this tendency to lead with a lot of what in terms of the organizational history, details of the work, the what of the founder, rather than leading with the why. And a case for support really is that moment to connect with a funder, a donor that shares your why. And when you get. When you start off, off the bat, we are a 501C3 that's located in Washington D.C. that works with after school, you know, has an after school program that works with youth. That's all. It's a lot of logistics. That's a lot of what. It's not that there's no place for that information in a case, but starting off with that isn't very inspiring. It's not very like connective in terms of connecting with somebody around why you both share the same value and goals about changing the world. And so starting with the why is one of the biggest you asked about mistakes. You know, starting with the what is the mistake. Starting with the why is the practice to change. And it's hard. It's all of us. You know, even when I explain thread strategies as a consulting firm I would my, my inclination is to start with we are a consulting firm that works with nonprofits. It's just kind of how we all are inclined to speak about our work. But practicing flipping the construct and in case for support, you're usually writing this out to begin with. So it's actually a good place to practice because you can write it and then you can move words around. And so starting with the why, making sure that although the program is in there, but that you're really focusing on the impact outcomes, not just the outputs, not just the numbers, but the so what of all of the work? You know, why are you doing this and what is this the ultimate long term impact? So what of it? It's not that 10 kids went to an after school program. It's what happens after that. And it's those of us who are doing the work. I know from talking, we know what the outcome is, but it's like we know it so much we forget to put it into words and communicate it to others. And that's where I really see case risk for support, having the room to improve along those lines.
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And I, what I tell my clients is like, if people are not on board with your why, they're not going to care about the what and the how. Exactly. If they don't, you know, if something like an after school program is not appealing to them or, or they don't believe that. I'm just thinking like no kid hungry, you know, their belief of no child should go hungry and, and everyone should be fed if they're not on board with that. I'm not going to dive deeper into exactly how many programs and that, like you said, the outcomes, I'm not going to dive into the impact and the stories and looking at the information of, you know, the transformative impact that the organization has. So really stating your why first and getting people on board with it. I think people, nonprofits just think it's too simple. I don't know, maybe they think they're dumbing it down, you know, so how often, well, how often should we revisit our case for support? I'm thinking of organizations that have been around years and years.
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I would definitely recommend that in terms of that core organization level case for support that that's revisited at least annually, even if it doesn't necessarily mean a full rewrite. It's not that organizations that have been around for years and years are necessarily making so many changes on an annual basis that they need to rewrite it. But it's always good to revisit it, refresh the language, make sure that you're still framing the work in a way that's aligned with what's actually happening and just update those outcomes really. I mean, the more years that you're doing the work, the more outcomes and stories that you have to add. So if nothing else, just keeping those kind of examples that you have in your case of your outcomes fresh and current. And then certainly whenever there's a new strategic plan, if there's a leadership change, if programs expand, if there's a big shift in external conditions, those are times to like more deeply revisit the case. And so that's what I would say about that main case for support. But then I find in doing this fundraising work with our nonprofit partners, I mean, we're writing those zoomed in cases all year long. You know, every time you have a fundraising appeal, you need to think about what is the messaging for this appeal this time and how do we put the core case together that we're going to talk about. Throughout all the communications of this appeal, you're going to have social media posts, you're going to have multiple emails, you're going to have a piece that goes in the mail and you want a core narrative to that. And that's part of planning that appeal is to define that particular case for support. So that activity is happening on the regular every time, you know, throughout the year, every time that you have a new fundraising case happening or a fundraising appeal happening. So I would say, you know, in our work, we find this case for appeal, case for support framing happening, you know, pretty appealingly.
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Yeah, I think that's a really good point because each campaign is a new ask. Each campaign, there has to be a, like, why this? Why now? Why am I paying attention to this? Why am I giving now? What's the issue? What's the problem? So the core case for support wouldn't change, but the individual appeal would need to be, you know, have a sense of like, urgency and relevancy. So I think that's. Yeah, I think that's a really, really great point. I know when I worked at a domestic violence program in Virginia and it was challenging the case for support because we couldn't say, you know, we aim to end domestic violence. That would be, I mean, that, that is the aim. But it's sort of like what our case for support was is we believe that domestic violence survivors deserve dignity and a place to live and, you know, a second chance. And, you know, we did education and outreach. That was a piece of it. But I don't, you know, I think nonprofits get hung up on the part of, you know, well, our mission is really to, you know, end poverty. But what are the pieces of that that you can take that people can support, you know, kind of wrap their brain around?
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Yeah, exactly. And we like to use a thread, we use a really simple framework for writing cases for support. That's vision, challenge, action, impact. And you can apply that at that zoomed out level or the zoomed in level. So like giving the, your experience what you just shared. Obviously I don't know anything about this organization other than what you just said, but I could imagine that at the global level that might look something like. We envision a community where anyone who's experiencing domestic violence knows exactly where to Go for help and support and has a safe place to live. The challenge is that there are not, there's only one place in our community like that, or there's no places, or we're the only place. And maybe the challenge might be that people don't know how to find us. So, you know, we're doing more work on that front. The action then would be, we provide this space, we provide these services, we provide this education and outreach. And then the impact would be we find that people are finding us more quickly, they're able to find a safe place within X amount of time, or, you know, not knowing about the organization. This is very vague, but you can see how that flowed. And then perhaps one of your fundraising appeals would have been, we're raising money for a new outreach program next year. So then that case would zoom in and say, well, we envision better education, you know, where everyone understands xyz. The challenge is that there's no education programs like this right now. We are that the action is this program that we're putting together. The impact is that we will have this many people go through the program and as a result, going all the way to outcomes, they will be more equipped to support a friend. Maybe it's a program for helping people in a peer way. And so that's going really narrow to maybe one campaign, but you can see how it has the same framework and kind of zooms back out to the big case for support.
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So vision, challenge, action, impact. I absolutely love that we did go to several funders to ask for money for our outreach programs, but specifically to fund marketing and advertising around the hotline. The challenge there was that we couldn't say, okay, we expect this many calls, and we kind of had to make it up. And then the other challenge was that, you know, funders, they want to fund the program, but they didn't necessarily want to fund the marketing. But the marketing is such a big piece of what we do. Like you said, getting the word out, helping people understand, like it's a part of our mission, helping people know that this is a place you can go. So we did eventually work with a funder and definitely framed it in that way. Vision, challenge, action, impact. I love that framework because you have to talk about the challenge. Right. I think this is also where organizations tend to get their case for support wrong. They're not talking about the need or the challenge that they're facing. They're not talking about the gap in society or in the community that they're filling, and they're Saying, you know, we're. We're doing great work and look at our impact, but, okay, well, you're doing great work. But for me, as a donor, I'm thinking, okay, you're doing great work, and just keep doing it. What, you know, like, what. The next steps? Or is this still a need in the community? Is the need growing as we know everyone is having, you know, experiencing skyrocketing need and skyrocketing demand for their programs, along with, you know, kind of a decrease in funding. So what fundraising trends are you seeing right now that nonprofit leaders should be paying attention to? Because there's just so many things competing for our attention, but there's also just the world is being the world, and the news is being the news. And I know that fundraising trends are affected by that, but what are you seeing?
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B
So many things, but one, I'll start with that, because I see it a lot legitimately, and it happens to match this topic. So it's a good place to start. Is that, you know, with increased competition for funds, with the shift in government funding and how it's trickled down across all areas, then as a result, we're really seeing that the general messaging of kind of like, we do good work, which I feel like, you know, in the nonprofit space, sometimes we fall back on, is just not cutting it anymore. You really.
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It's like, table stakes at this point.
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B
Yep, yep. And. And. And I talk to a lot of organizations who are like, but we do good work. And I'm like, I don't. I don't disagree. You do, but you've got to be able to specifically communicate what it is you're doing and what. And. And really demonstrate the impact of what it is you're doing, like, clearly, specifically because the competition is higher. So there's a lot of organizations doing great work. Most organizations are doing great work. And so that isn't enough to just kind of make that point, that you really need to define your case for support and be able to communicate it, to be really clear about what you do, why you're doing it, how you're doing it, and how we know. It's. It's. It's actually moving the needle on that ultimate vision. And it always surprises me, again, just how. How hard that seems to be for us for organizations that for a long time, we're receiving funding just kind of on the basis of doing good work and are having a really hard time kind of changing the way that they talk about themselves. So that's one. That's one trend and then, you know, relationship fundraising, relationship based fundraising is, is always going to outperform transactional fundraising. And that's just more and more true AI being a tool to use is, is a trend that's super helpful. And there is a thin line between having it help you save time and then tipping you towards transactional because you're not being personal enough anymore. And so I, I am all for using the technology that's, that's available to us. I think there's a lot of really amazing AI tools and as organizations are using these, they should not be doing it in a way that's jeopardizing transparency or authenticity or replacing that relationship, the authentic relationship. You know, we're smart, we're smart people. We know, we know when we're talking to a real person and we know when we're talking to a robot and nobody wants to talk to a robot or you know, be hearing from a robot. So those are some of the things I'm seeing.
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A
Also, I think the personalization, the segmentation that you talked about earlier, how should nonprofits tailor their case for support to different audiences? So they've got, you know, major donors, foundations, corporate sponsors, everyday supporters, volunteers, board members. Do we need to, to really tailor to each audience and how best to do that?
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B
I love this question because a case for support will almost always be personalized when we're talking about one on one funder relationship. So major donors, foundations and corporate partners in particular, those are the types of funders that you're probably having one on one conversations with. And so you should always be tailoring your case for support in those one on one conversations to match what you know about that funder and what they care about, what, what program or piece of your work they're most interested in. Again, having those multiple versions of your case for support are going to be really important. And not because you're faking something or changing something, but because you're zooming in on various elements of the work in terms of the person you're sitting across the table from and where their interests are aligning. And so any kind of one on one funder relationship, whether it be individuals, foundations or corporations, you're going to tailor that specific to that relationship. But then you have your everyday supporters. And we just kind of talked about the fact that in that, you know, kind of one to many fundraising of your camp, your annual appeals and your annual campaigns, you're going to be using a case for support, but that really is aimed at like the full group of donors in that Instance, and ultimately, as you have these variations of your case for support, you still want everyone to recognize the same organization, the same mission. They should all be rolling up to each other. And that's a really important part, too.
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A
It's so hard for especially small nonprofits to think about that kind of personalization, segmentation. They feel very overwhelmed. But I think you explained it really well. And like you, I work with a lot of smaller organizations, and I just feel that they tend to, like you said, rely on the good work that they're doing rather than, you know, trying to explain it or communicate it. What about a nonprofit just starting out? I've recently been getting questions in my email from organizations that are just founded or just starting out, and they have no idea where to begin. They don't have any evidence, they don't have any outcomes. How would you help them sort of craft that case for support and get those, those first few funders?
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B
Yeah, that's always a tough part of this journey. And so I would say that framework we talked about can be really useful here. You can be on day one and still know your vision. You can be on day one and still be able to identify the challenge that your work is addressing. You can be on day one and still talk about the programs that you're going to be, you know, using to address those challenges. You might not have as much to share about the actual impact yet, but you can talk about the anticipated impact. I mean, I would be honest, don't use those words like it's already happening if it hasn't gotten there yet. But you can still end that, that story arc with a, you know, we expect that because of this program, this is what we'll see as a change in the community. And you can still at least use that same framework to get most of the parts together to, to tell that story and then just know what kind of funders are more likely to get involved with an organization at that stage. And it's really, it's individuals over institutional funders. So the other part, you asked what I would do for the case for support, and there's that part, but then there's also the strategy of who are you using that case for support with when you're in early stages and you really want to focus on building that community of individuals that support you, because foundations in particular will want to see actual, measured impact before they'll fund most of them. I can't speak in absolutes here, but for the most part, foundations would appreciate your anticipated impact. But if it's not there yet. They, you know, invite you to come back when it is. But individuals really are connecting more on that emotional level, understanding that vision that you're sharing and, you know, getting on board with, you know, if they share the vision with you, getting on board and making it happen and so making sure you're using that case efficiently in terms of your time with the types of funders that are most likely to get engaged at that level.
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A
Exactly. And just you start reaching out to who you know, that's what I normally say. I mean, you're not going to create like a Facebook ad for a brand new nonprofit. Maybe you can, you know, figuring who your network is, but really honing on, like, not just because if you don't do anything yet, honing into, like you just said, your vision, what you want to do, what you hope to do, what you want to accomplish. And I think more nonprofits should talk about their vision rather than the what. Like you said, the why. We need to focus on the why. So what advice would you give to fundraisers who are just feeling really discouraged right now? We know that, I mean, the overall dollars raised is going up or has gone up, but we know that the number of donors across the board has decreased and we know the number of small dollar donors has decreased. And I was just at the AFP conference. Did you go to icon?
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B
I did not go this year.
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A
Okay.
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B
I was across the country, but I look forward to going next year.
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A
Yes. Okay. So I, What I saw from people is that, oh, we keep talking about how the number of dollars is going up, but we don't talk about how, like, not everyone's getting a McKenzie Scott grant, or like, not everyone is, you know, not everyone has these giant major donors. So what advice would you give to fundraisers who might see. Be seeing like a dip in fundraising right now?
- [30:41]
B
Oh, yeah. I have so much to say about all of those things. First, I would. I just want to recognize that fundraising is hard. It's hard. It's always hard because it's, it's work and, you know, it's real. It's real relationship work. It can be. Takes a lot of energy to do that. And right now it can be. It's particularly hard with the massive shifts that we've seen in the last two years of funding. So just, you know, you're not alone if that's how you're feeling, and if you're feeling tired, it's for a good reason. But that relationships still really deeply matter. They will always matter. It will always be at the heart of what drives good fundraising. And so, again, I know relationships take energy, but as a fundraiser myself, that's where I find the joy in fundraising, is meeting amazing people who care about the same things that I care about and are putting their resources behind it. So I would just encourage fundraisers and nonprofit leaders to remember to lean into those relationships to really help fill their cup. And by filling their personal cup, it'll also. Those are what will convert to funding. I would also say along those lines, of the decreasing number of donors, all of us in the space. I'm sure these are the conversations at ICON have our hypotheses for why that's happening at Thread. Something we talk about a lot on our team is we truly believe one of the reasons that that's happening is that nonprofits in general, as a sector, we are not valuing small dollar donors. And then when people aren't getting the message that their gift makes a difference, they stop giving. And so I think it's on all of us in the sector to put the time and energy into individuals who are giving at all sizes, not just the Mackenzie Scotts or the people right below her. If we want to see more households participating in fundraising, we have to give the message to those households that when they do, it makes a real impact. It truly matters. And so that comes back to a lot of things we already talked about today. You know, are you communicating that through your. Your case for support? Can someone who you don't have the capacity to meet with one on one, is maybe giving you $25? Have you communicated through your materials how that $25 makes a difference? Is it super clear to them that, oh, when I give, this thing changes and this organization knows I give, so I matter to them? You can do a whole podcast on stewardship, and there's lots of thoughts about the way we treat donors. I'm a big fan of community centric fundraising and not putting donors on pedestals and all of that. But there's also the side of, does a donor even know you got their gift right?
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A
Right.
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B
If there's no indication that your gift was even received, let alone mattered, why would they give again? And that's not necessarily about someone being selfish or needing to be praised. It's just a simple matter of you have limited resources and you want to put them where you think it matters. And if you don't even know that your gift mattered, you're not going to do it again. So, yeah, there's so much we can do to make sure donors of all Sizes know that they matter and they do. I mean, the data is there. They matter. This isn't me just like making things up that I think will help. Yeah, exactly.
- [33:55]
A
I agree, and I feel the same way. And I was talking to. You probably know Woodrow Rosenbaum from Giving Tuesday. He's a big one on like, this is the data. But what does this tell us? This is our report card, right? This is not something that's happening to us. It is something that we are responsible for and that we can change. So I love that. I love that viewpoint. I love that idea. Well, where can people learn more about you, more about thread strategies, connect with you? I'm sure you're going to get a lot of interest from my listeners, so where can they connect with you? Lori?
- [34:30]
B
I would love to talk with anyone listening today who's, you know, this resonated with them and they want to infuse more of this kind of strategy, relationship based, you know, case for support, CRM and data into your strategies. Our website, threadstrategies.com has all of our information. I'm also active on LinkedIn. I always enjoy connecting with nonprofit leaders and fundraisers who are thinking deeply about how to build more sustainable and impactful organizations. So if there's anything you heard today that you feel like you'd like to just learn a little more or feel, say, yeah, me too. I just want to say whatever it is, please don't hesitate to reach out, you know, via either email. Information's on our website or via LinkedIn. We'd love to connect. And yeah, we didn't make it to Icon this year, but we do go to lots of conferences. So I also love to hear if anyone's at a fundraising conference that you think is great. I'm also always looking to make sure I learn about new ones, so please be in touch. Love to connect.
- [35:28]
A
Thank you. All right, thanks so much for being here. Thanks for sharing your expertise. And yeah, I'm sure you'll get a lot of people connecting with you. So thanks, Lori.
- [35:35]
B
Thank you for having me, Julia. I appreciate it.
- [35:44]
A
Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to. And then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then, you can find me on Instagram. Juliacampbell77 Keep changing the world, you nonprofit unicorn.