Podcast Summary: Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell

Episode: Stop Sharing Info, Start Meaning-Making with Kristen Grimm
Release Date: December 17, 2025
Host: Julia Campbell
Guest: Kristen Grimm, Founder and Strategist at Spitfire Strategies

Episode Overview

In this thought-provoking episode, Julia Campbell hosts Kristen Grimm to explore the vital concept of meaning making for nonprofits. Instead of simply sharing information, organizations must help people make sense of the complex world around them—interpreting events, generating resonance, and leading meaningful conversations. Kristen draws upon her recent “Meaning Making” blog series to offer practical frameworks, share compelling stories, and provide real-world tactics for nonprofit communicators striving to rise above chaos and foster lasting impact.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining Meaning Making in the Nonprofit Context

• Meaning making is “the process of helping people interpret what's happening.” (04:31)
  • In times of dramatic change (technology, politics, climate, societal shifts), people seek understanding above mere facts or data.
  • “People are sort of like holding on for dear life and saying, okay, what does this mean? So they're searching for the meaning. And that's a very human thing.” — Kristen Grimm (04:46)

2. Why This Moment Demands Meaning Making

• Current societal shifts are as profound as the arrival of electricity, changing every aspect of daily life.

  • “We have a lot of tectonic shifts going on. [...] When people are open to remaking up their mind about what do I think about that, it is a really interesting time.” — Kristen Grimm (05:52)

• Significant issues (e.g., threats to SNAP benefits) become opportunities to discuss larger questions about government, society, and values.

  • “You need to focus on the future, not saving the past… this isn't about this program that frankly a lot of people have problems with… it is to say, what is the right way to make sure that everybody in this country can actually have the meals that they need?” (08:56–09:24)

3. The Phases of Meaning Making

Kristen’s Framework:

1. Chaos: Identify turmoil or confusion relevant to your field or mission (e.g., potential government shutdown affecting SNAP).
2. Clarity: Go beyond the immediate crisis to propose a new, aspirational vision.
3. Future Making: Shift the narrative from preserving the past to innovating for a better future.
4. Credible Reference Groups: Engage trusted voices (“social reference groups”) to champion the new perspective.
5. Majority Making: Build broad-based support so the new narrative approaches societal consensus or becomes the “new normal.”
   • “Meaning making is not a solo journey, it's a team sport.” — Kristen Grimm (14:05)

4. Trust and Social Reference Groups

• “You really do need to know who you're trying to engage with, because they do have trusted sources. … It’s called a social reference group.” (11:58 & 12:57)
• Collaborate across organizations and leverage voices that audiences naturally trust on specific issues.

5. Collaboration Over Siloes

• Highlighted examples of collaboration (e.g., smaller food banks elevating the work of No Kid Hungry).
• “We need to come together with what exactly are we trying to socialize and popularize as a meaning making thing.” — Kristen Grimm (14:12)

6. The Power—and Challenge—of Storytelling

• Storytelling is crucial for shaping vision, but “where-are-we-going” stories are the hardest to tell.
  • “It's so much easier to do a nature-of-our-problem story… what I have a really hard time doing is saying, hey, this is what it actually looks like to have a truly equal opportunity society.” (20:10)
• Acknowledging emotional truth and starting with people’s lived experiences is critical for empathy-building.
  • Example: Shoplifting perceptions in DC pharmacies and how these shape beliefs about crime. (23:40–24:40)

7. Live Examples of Meaning Making in Action

• Mental Health: Shift from “treating mental illness” to “promoting mental well-being.”
  • “Instead of just stopping bad things, mental illness… (it’s) bringing it into something we all actually want, which is mental well-being.” (26:09)
• Phone-Free Schools: Responding to the modern dilemma of technology in education by reframing the conversation toward shared aspirations for student well-being. (26:55)
• Emphasis on community and normalization (“the perceived social norm is moving in my favor”—29:34).

8. Advice for Small Nonprofits

• Seize the opportunity to build, not just defend.
  • “Rather than feeling like you are hospice to the old systems and defending the status quo, instead spend your time building… be the doulas for the new system and not hospice for the old.” (30:15)
• Proactive over reactive: Focus energy on imagining and realizing new systems, not just blocking harmful changes. (33:16)
• Use creativity and constraints to fuel innovative thinking and positive visioning. (34:21)

9. Avoid Distractions—Lead Visionary Conversations

• Don’t spend energy fighting every outrage or online battle.
  • “Build what you want to build, say what you want to say… attract the people that are going to build you up…” — Julia Campbell (33:16)
• Example: Instead of fighting about White House renovations, spark vision by asking, “What would the best White House for America look like today?” (35:00–36:03)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Meaning making is the process of helping people interpret what's happening… People want to know what's happening around them and what it means and then decide how they want to act.” — Kristen Grimm (04:31)
• “Meaning making is not a solo journey… you gotta get your whole field.” — Kristen Grimm (14:05)
• “Storytelling is super important because once we do the meaning making about the future we want, we have to do what I consider the hardest of stories to tell, which is a ‘where-are-we-going?’ story.” — Kristen Grimm (20:01)
• “Acknowledge that people are emotional about things… what people do is they think about their experiences in life and then they make up the stories that tell them what's happening.” — Kristen Grimm (23:18)
• “We need to come up with what exactly are we trying to socialize and popularize as a meaning making thing.” — Kristen Grimm (14:12)
• “Be the doulas for the new system, not hospice for the old.” — Kristen Grimm (30:15)

Key Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Event | |-----------|------------------------------------------------| | 02:25 | Kristen on her accidental start in social change work | | 04:31 | Definition of “meaning making” | | 05:47 | Why this is a once-in-a-generation opportunity | | 07:49 | Applying meaning making to the SNAP debate | | 11:26 | Addressing trust and social reference groups | | 14:05 | Importance of collaboration and aligned messaging| | 20:01 | Role of storytelling in meaning making | | 23:18 | Addressing emotional truth and lived experience | | 26:03 | Example: shift from “mental illness” to “mental well-being” | | 29:34 | Power of shared norms (phone-free schools) | | 30:15 | Advice for small nonprofits | | 33:16 | Proactive vs. reactive action in messaging | | 35:00 | Example: visionary use of White House controversy| | 36:57 | Where to find Kristen and the Meaning Making series |

Conclusion & Further Resources

Kristen underscores that meaning making is a fundamental human need—and a profound leadership opportunity for nonprofits. By choosing to interpret change, set visionary goals, and offer clear narratives (in coalition with others, and anchored by trusted voices), nonprofits can move people from confusion to collective action.

Learn more:

• Spitfire Strategies—Learning Section and Meaning Making Blog Series
• Reach Kristen at kristen@spitfirestrategies.com

Julia Campbell:

• Instagram: @juliacampbell77

This summary provides a roadmap for nonprofit professionals eager to shift from simply disseminating information to actively shaping the understanding and actions of their communities—and building tomorrow’s movements, today.