The New Model for Major Gifts with Gail Perry & Beth Ann Locke

Summary

Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell

Episode: The New Model for Major Gifts with Gail Perry & Beth Ann Locke
Release Date: November 20, 2024

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Introduction to Major Gifts Fundraising

In this episode of Nonprofit Nation, host Julia Campbell engages with two esteemed experts in the nonprofit fundraising sector: Gail Perry of the Gail Perry Group and Beth Ann Locke, Director of the Academy of the Gail Perry Group and Chief Spark at the Fundraiser. The conversation centers around evolving strategies in major gifts fundraising, contrasting traditional approaches with more contemporary, donor-centered methods.

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Old Way vs. New Way of Major Gifts Fundraising

Traditional Approaches: Scripted and Transactional

The discussion begins with a reflection on traditional major gift solicitation methods. Gail Perry reminisces about scripted pitches from the 70s and 80s, where fundraisers rehearsed specific lines to secure donations. She shares a cautionary tale:

Gail Perry (05:48): “...the original approach was all one way. They were so rehearsed in their presentation that they never once asked the donor couple one question. Oh, no, it was all one way. It was a pitch...they were so offended [they] didn't give a cent to the campaign.”

This anecdote underscores the pitfalls of overly scripted and impersonal asks, which can alienate potential donors by making them feel undervalued and manipulated.

Modern Approaches: Conversational and Donor-Centered

Transitioning to contemporary methods, Gail introduces the concept of "the gift conversation," a more organic and interactive approach to soliciting major gifts. Beth Ann Locke emphasizes the shift from transactional interactions to relationship-based engagements:

Beth Ann Locke (06:32): “It's not relationship based, really. It's coming really at a transactional, as a wanting, as a taking... seeing the donor as a whole person and not a pile of money.”

This new model encourages fundraisers to engage donors in meaningful dialogues, focusing on their interests and values rather than strictly on the financial aspect of giving.

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Changing Donor Expectations and Generational Shifts

Generational Influences on Giving

Beth Ann Locke delves into how generational changes have influenced donor expectations and behaviors. She outlines a progression from the community-focused giving of older generations to the interest-driven philanthropy of boomers and millennials:

Beth Ann Locke (08:44): “...you got these sort of institutional giving... then with the boomers... it started being about where do I want to make an impact... and now as younger generations... they want to do it in ways that are meaningful for them.”

This evolution necessitates a more personalized and engaging approach to fundraising, aligning with donors' desire to make impactful and meaningful contributions.

Emotional Intelligence in Fundraising

Gail adds that advancements in understanding emotional and social intelligence have facilitated this shift, allowing fundraisers to create more flexible and donor-focused engagements:

Gail Perry (10:33): “...the one up ask. Now, I know you're releasing this framework... [it] is much more donor centered and focused on the donor and how they're reacting than the one up ask...”

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The New Framework for Gift Conversations

Key Elements of the New Model

Gail and Beth Ann outline the fundamental differences between the old and new approaches. Key aspects of the new model include:

• Informal Conversations vs. Formal Pitches: Moving away from rigid scripts to more natural, conversational interactions.
• Asking Questions vs. Presenting Pitches: Engaging donors by asking about their interests and values.
• Donor-Centered vs. Organization-Centered: Focusing on the donor’s passions rather than solely on the organization’s needs.
• Permission-Based Engagements: Seeking consent and building dialogues rather than pushing for immediate commitments.

Gail Perry (12:18): “...formal versus informal. Fast versus slow. Pitch versus asking questions. Talking all about money rather than talking about possibilities and impact...”

Implementing the New Model

Beth Ann highlights practical strategies for embedding this approach within fundraising teams:

Beth Ann Locke (12:43): “...consent based or permission based... engaging in conversation.”

Gail further elaborates on the importance of balancing speaking and listening:

Gail Perry (11:35): “...if you talk more than 50% of the time, you're shooting yourself in the foot.”

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Building Confidence for Fundraisers

Embracing the Role and Mission

Confidence is pivotal in shifting to the new model. Beth Ann advises fundraisers to embody the organization’s mission and leverage existing relationships:

Beth Ann Locke (23:10): “...they are wearing the legacy of a current donor's relationship with the organization... believe in the mission.”

Practical Tips for Developing Confidence

Gail suggests starting with low-stakes interactions, such as thank-you calls, to practice discovery questions:

Gail Perry (24:43): “...start with making thank you visits and practicing some of these questions...”

She also emphasizes the role of emotional intelligence and self-awareness in managing interactions effectively:

Gail Perry (26:18): “...making yourself comfortable... being able to focus on them rather than yourself.”

Beth Ann adds that fundraising is inclusive of different personality types, reassuring introverts that they can excel in this field by adapting their approach:

Beth Ann Locke (26:28): “...fundraising is not a profession for extroverts. It is a profession for people.”

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Advice for Organizations Starting with Major Gifts Programs

Initiating Donor Engagement

For newer organizations or those establishing major gift programs, Beth Ann advises initiating personal contact through thank-you calls and human-centric interactions to build trust:

Beth Ann Locke (28:07): “…start doing the easy contacts, like calling and thanking, checking in to see how the summer went...”

Gail underscores the importance of developing a robust prospect list by identifying passionate donors with the capacity to give significantly:

Gail Perry (30:07): “...start with your list of donors and try to determine who are the most loyal and passionate donors with capacity.”

Leveraging Success Stories

The conversation includes inspiring stories of donors who, after engaging in meaningful conversations, elevated their contributions substantially:

Beth Ann Locke (32:16): “…she said, I’d like to make that a hundred thousand dollar gift. Now this is an amazing gift...”

These anecdotes illustrate the efficacy of the new model in fostering deeper connections and inspiring larger commitments.

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Success Stories and Impact of the New Model

Gail shares remarkable outcomes from clients who have adopted the conversational approach, including unexpected major gifts without formal pitches:

Gail Perry (34:44): “We have had at least two $1 million gifts that were thrown at our clients without a formal ask based on this approach.”

These successes highlight the transformative potential of the new model in achieving substantial fundraising goals.

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Conclusion and Resources

Julia Campbell wraps up the episode by acknowledging the valuable insights shared by Gail Perry and Beth Ann Locke. She directs listeners to additional resources for those interested in implementing the new major gifts framework:

• Major Gifts Intensive Program: A four-month coaching and training initiative available at majorgiftscoaching.com and gailperrygroup.com.
• Follow on Social Platforms: Listeners are encouraged to follow Gail Perry on LinkedIn and explore her blog for ongoing tips and strategies.

Gail Perry & Beth Ann Locke (35:32-35:35): “...we have so many people with resources who want to make the world a better place...”

Julia concludes by encouraging listeners to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast to spread these impactful strategies further.

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Key Takeaways

• Shift from Scripted Pitches to Conversations: Engage donors through meaningful dialogues centered on their interests and values.
• Emphasize Donor-Centered Approaches: Focus on building relationships rather than solely pursuing financial commitments.
• Leverage Emotional Intelligence: Enhance interactions by being self-aware and responsive to donor emotions and cues.
• Start with Low-Stakes Engagements: Build confidence and practice new techniques through thank-you calls and informal conversations.
• Identify and Nurture Passionate Donors: Prioritize donors who are both passionate about the cause and possess the capacity to give significantly.

By adopting these modern strategies, nonprofit organizations can cultivate more profound and sustainable relationships with donors, ultimately enhancing their fundraising effectiveness and expanding their impact.

Transcript

[Julia Campbell]

Did you miss this year's Nonprofit Social Media Summit? Well, the recordings and all the materials are now available. This summit is designed for the small and mid sized nonprofit and offers actionable and practical insights on how to best use social media to raise awareness and funds. Even during these turbulent times. You will walk away feeling empowered and supported with strategies you can implement right away. So learn more and get instant access to all of the recordings@nonprofitsocialmedia summit.com thank you and on to the show. Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host Julia Campbell and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strateg to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience and effectively build your movement. If you're a non profit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. Hi and welcome. Welcome back to Nonprofit Nation. This is Julia Campbell. Today we're going to be talking all things major gifts fundraising and I have two exceptional thought leaders with me today. I'm very excited. The first is Gail Perry, a philanthropy leader, keynote speaker and author with more than 30 years experience, renowned for her positivity, expertise and insight. And her company, Gail Perry Group helps nonprofits reach extraordinary fundraising and capital campaign goals. And Bethann Locke is director of the Academy of the Gail Perry Group and chief spark at the fundraiser. Coach Beth ann brings over 30 years of accomplished fundraising experience in the US and Canada. And they are two colleagues and friends of mine, Gail and Bethann. I'm so happy to have you on the podcast.

[Gail Perry]

Oh, it's great to be here. How you doing Julia?

[Julia Campbell]

I'm doing great. I am doing really well. I know that both of you are doing really well. We have some pretty exciting things to talk about today. I know that major gifts fundraising has been in the news, especially with the Fundraising Effectiveness Project coming out showing that while individual and smaller gifts are potentially down, major gifts are only growing. But we do know that the major gift landscape is changing and I think that we can all agree nonprofits kind of fundraising future depends on this robust revenue stream. But what we're here today to talk about, which is so exciting, is the old way to ask for gifts and the new way to ask for gifts. And Gail, I want you to kind of tee this up for us and set us up. It's this framework that you've come up with.

[Gail Perry]

Okey dokey. Well, let's talk. We're going to talk about the old fashioned ask for major, major contribution to a capital campaign or to a project at your organization. And then we're going to talk about something we call the new way, the gift conversation. So it's the old fashioned way and the new conversation, and it's really interesting. The old fashioned ask was sort of born what, Bethann, do you think in the 70s and 80s, when you have a pitch and you have a script?

[Bethann Locke]

Sure. When it moved from volunteers, like a pitch dash nationalism. Yes. Or even just a way you had a script of asking.

[Gail Perry]

We would rehearse our major ask. And I remember I wrote it all out. Like one person says this and one person says that, and then we time it out, you know, and then so and so is going to make the ask. And if that person chickens out, the other person will make the ask.

[Julia Campbell]

I do remember this too.

[Gail Perry]

You remember the script, Julia?

[Julia Campbell]

Oh, yes. When I was a development director, we would have a whole pitch deck and a little folder and we would rehearse, like you just said, like it was a play.

[Gail Perry]

Yeah.

[Bethann Locke]

Yes.

[Gail Perry]

Well, let me tell you a story. And this story comes from my dear, much admired friend, Andrea Kilstadt. She said once that she was friends with a major donor couple who lived in the Midwest, and they were very philanthropic. And there's one university they were affiliated with and they had named a building in the previous campaign. So when the university was planning their next campaign, they really looked at this couple for possibly a lead gift. And they were top of the prospect list, this couple. And so the couple's friend was on the board of trustees, and the friend said, would y'all like to hear about the campaign? And of course, the couple said, yes, we'd love to hear about the campaign. We're very interested. And so the president of the university came, the head of the board of trustees and their friend. Three people came and they were so rehearsed in their presentation that they never once asked the donor couple one question. Oh, no, it was all one way. It was a pitch. And the donor couple loved this university and they knew these people involved. And the lady said to Andrea, lady later, she said, I have never felt so demeaned. And they didn't give a cent to the campaign. They were so offended. So we have taken these kinds of stories and our own experiences. I have blown a couple of cap. Have you ever Blown a major capital campaign. Ask Bethan. I have.

[Bethann Locke]

Well, I haven't been in as many as yours, so I know when you've done thousands, it's easy to have one or two go astray.

[Gail Perry]

We have been thinking and working a lot on this new approach to donors. When it comes time for a really, really big gift, we're talking six, seven, eight, nine figure gifts, the kind of gifts that are transformational to the organization. And one thing we find, and Bethann, you probably agree, is that the fundraisers want to take charge. We want to be in charge of this donor and this ask, and we're going to script it and we're going to make it happen because we are so important. And sometimes the donor ends up feeling a little bit manipulated or even lit up when they're approached like that. What do you think, Bethann?

[Bethann Locke]

Well, it's not relationship based, really. It's coming really at a transactional, as a wanting, as a taking. Extractive almost in its nature. So. And it's why the gift conversation and the new way of asking Gail is really about what people are interested in and seeing the donor as a whole person and not a pile of money.

[Julia Campbell]

Exactly. It's like a first date where no one asks, where the person doesn't ask you any questions.

[Bethann Locke]

That's right.

[Julia Campbell]

Just talks about how great they are. It's like, seriously, one of the big.

[Gail Perry]

Changes in the old way and the new way to ask is the pace of the conversation usually happens over a period of time. They're warm up conversations with the donor, discovery conversations with the donor, engagement conversations with the donor, you know, and often the major gift is sort of discussed little by little. There's not often that moment in time when you're having the big pitch. Have you run into that, Bethann?

[Bethann Locke]

Yes, because actually you're understanding what they're more interested in. Not for the donor to drive where they're giving, but so you can shape the conversation around their values and interests.

[Gail Perry]

Also, we have been thinking a lot at Gail Perry Group about the concept emotion. And I wrote a blog post, I think, last year about mushy donors who have great big hearts and who have all these feelings. I find that donors feel deeply, passionately about the causes they're supporting, and they have a lot of stuff going on in their belly and their heart and their head about this work. And when a fundraiser approaches them in a very scripted way, that's not engaging, it's so disappointing, it fails to engage the donor's heart.

[Julia Campbell]

So what has changed? Why is the Old model no longer working. What do you think has shifted either generationally or in society? Why are this was maybe supposedly working for a while was what we were all taught. And why the shift?

[Bethann Locke]

Well, I believe it's because the generations and the way they were raised and the expectations have shifted. So when you think of older generation, especially sort of the first group of the silence, it was about hierarchy and it was about doing things for the community because it was the right thing. So you got these sort of institutional giving, the opera, the library, the hospital. And I think with the boomers, where there was an idea of their voice, both as children being raised and their interests being paid attention to. And as a big group, it started being about what we would also like about our interests and not just giving to the hospital in unrestricted, because that's what you should do. It's about where do I want to make an impact? And now as younger generations, they don't. I don't think they should even feel like they have to do they want and they want to do it in ways that are meaningful for them. And that takes conversation.

[Gail Perry]

That's right. Donors are showing up on our doorsteps with ideas about their the impact they want to make. So I would say, Bethann, that we're having more activist donors who really do want to participate in directing their money to where they feel most satisfied. And also something else that's changed. I think we get better at fundraising every decade. There's new research, there are new approaches, and with all of the talk about emotional intelligence and social intelligence and the ability to read the other people, read the room and react to what's happening, that creates a more flexible ask that is much more donor centered and focused on the donor and how they're reacting than the one up ask. That is very, very straightforward and very controlled.

[Julia Campbell]

Oh, I love calling it the one up ask. Now, I know you're releasing this framework. It will be released at the time of this recording and you are doing a webinar all around the old way to ask, the new way to ask. That's going to [e-mail] if you're interested listeners. But can you tell me some specifics about the sort of the new framework that you're teaching?

[Gail Perry]

Yes, yes. Well, one thing is the difference between a formal and an informal conversation. The scripted ask is very formal and you got a timetable. And often in my past, when I shot myself in the foot on Big Ass, I didn't build in the questions to ask the donor to engage them. And as time progressed. And I teach people and fundraisers that if you talk more than 50% of the time, you're shooting yourself in the foot. And that I think is a very big shift from the old sort of manipulative pitch, presentation oriented ask, what do you think? Bethann?

[Bethann Locke]

Yes, and one of the other shifts is really going, like you said, from organizational centric to what we sometimes call donor centered. And I know the phrase donor centered has gone out of favor, but what we're talking about is almost really consent based or permission based. So we're not driving, steamrolling over the donor to get what we want or even just to, you know, ask them just for the money. People aren't themselves money. They have resources. And so I think thinking of it about moving into that, you know, consent based or permission based, which is really what we should be doing in many areas of our lives, I think that really helps you shift from just talking about yourselves to engaging in conversation.

[Gail Perry]

For example, here's some before and afters. Formal versus informal. Fast versus slow. Pitch versus asking questions. Talking all about money rather than talking about possibilities and impact. Organization centered versus donor focused. Pushy versus permission. Let's talk about permission. Bethann.

[Bethann Locke]

Yes, we, especially in the major gifts intensive, which is a course that we offer once a year, this is really about asking the donor at every step of the way. May I tell you more about the program that we're starting? I think it may align with your interests. Would you like to talk now about the gift we discussed earlier this summer? It gives the donor kind of that branching logic. Sometimes they'll say no, but most often they say yes and can feel like they are then in charge because they are in how the conversation moves along. And I think it's just, you could call it more genteel, you could call it more polite, but it really is more based on them as people.

[Julia Campbell]

I teach that when I teach marketing. Everything should be permission based. You should not be spamming people. You should not be signing people up for your email list. You should not be purchasing email lists from people that don't want to hear from you. You should not be trying to beat people over the head with your message if they are not interested and they don't want to hear it. You should be talking to people that want to be talked to about things that they care about. So I agree.

[Gail Perry]

That's the way we raise big money, isn't it?

[Julia Campbell]

What kinds of questions should we be asking in these conversations in the new model?

[Gail Perry]

Oh, we have lots of questions that I Do want to put a little plug in for the major gifts intensive.

[Julia Campbell]

Coming in 2025, four month course that.

[Gail Perry]

We teach every year, first part of the year, and Bethann's in charge of the program, but it's designed for a fundraising team. It's not just one person. And so we want a whole team from a university or an organization to embrace this model that includes the old way and the new way to ask. It includes the training on permission, includes training on discovery conversations, and all the kind of questions that you ask the donor in order to get them ready for that big gift conversation. So encourage anybody who wants to find out more. We'll be posting a link and you can sign up for our newsletter that comes out on Friday and it's a great newsletter and find out all about the program when we update it every year. So let's talk about some of these questions. Bethany, you want to talk about some of the questions we cover?

[Bethann Locke]

Sure. I mean, I first just want to reemphasize the one shot. Ask puts a lot of pressure on fundraisers. You know, the idea that your boss is coming to you and we need to get that 25k, that kind of speaking about donors, whereas you have that at the office in front of the donor or on the phone or however you're messaging. It's really about the impact donors want to make impact. I always, when I coach people don't have $10,000 laying around or if they do, they're not just handing it over. What can I do? What's important to me to make an impact. And that's why having multiple conversations is so important, because you start to discover what those are and why they're already interested in what you're. And it's how we get a no ask ask as we call it sometimes, right, where you're just having conversations and the donor says, what do you need to get this done? Or how can I help? And that's why multiple conversations make it easier because almost the donor is so curious in making that. And what. Just tell me what you need. One of the questions is we might just ask is I love to ask, you know, tell me more about what you know, has lit you up or made you excited about your last gift. Because of course you've been giving impact reports. You know, you start to hear what's important. Maybe it's the numbers, maybe it's the way it was done. And then you get to move into different discussions around that. So, well, we actually have more need in the community. We could potentially reach Twice as many kids, but we need to scale and double. Let me tell you a little bit more about that. Would you like to hear about it? And that's how people start moving into being partners with you instead of passive listeners. And that is such an important shift.

[Gail Perry]

Bingo. Bethann. Because I think the old fashioned ass views the donor as a passive object to be only.

[Julia Campbell]

Yes.

[Bethann Locke]

Yes.

[Gail Perry]

As opposed to the new approach. And I will say that the largest gifts at the largest mega campaigns around the world have always followed this approach. Slow, engaging the donor in every step, asking the donor to share their heart. I mean, the successful, major, major, major transformational gifts have followed this approach. One of the challenges we see is that board members think that fundraising is all about asking. And also new CEOs who are directing fundraising programs think it's get out there and ask. Get out there and ask. And so a lot of what our mission has been in the world is try to redefine what an ask really is and how it needs to operate in order to be successful. Because we can't look at the donor as an object. We have to using permission. We bring them step by step along the way and they are agreeing. Yes, I'm interested in this project. Yes, I want to learn more. Yes, this project is deeply meaningful to me. And this is why, yes, my family has philanthropic conversations around the Thanksgiving dinner table. And yes, we might want to talk about this. Yes, you may send us a proposal or yes, I'd like to know right now how I can help. I wouldn't say we're manipulating but the donor to get this point, but the donor is actively engaged in the conversation, saying yes the whole time. And therefore, when you say, would you like to know how you can help? Would you like to help? The donor says, yes. And it's a whole lot easier to ask. I call it the kinder, gentler, much more fun and much more successful.

[Julia Campbell]

I see it like an invitation. You're talking about this awesome party, but you're just saying, oh, I know that you really like, just think about Halloween. I know you really like dressing up in costume. I know you really like Halloween. Would you be interested in learning more about this party? And then they say yes. And then you say, okay, it's like an invitation into something that's fun and that is actually meaningful and that the donor is excited and motivated and inspired to be a part of. I think that's amazing. My next question for the fundraisers out there that are listening to this podcast saying, okay, this all sounds great, but let's Dive more into what you were just talking about, Gail, the board members and the ed. How do we change the culture of transactional fundraising? I know you are attempting to do this and transform the philanthropy and the sector, but how can an individual fundraiser. What are some steps they can take to sort of move out of the old way and into the new way if they're getting pushback?

[Gail Perry]

Yeah. Well, you know, educating people who think they know more than you do can be challenging.

[Julia Campbell]

Yes.

[Gail Perry]

One thing that's really worked for me lately when I'm working with the board is that I'm trying to educate them. Not teach, but educate them about how we do fundraising these days. I'll ask the board members, what happens if somebody asks you for a gift too quickly or too soon before you're ready? What happens if we rush to the ask and I stop and let them think about it? And every single person in the room will nod and say, you don't get as much when you're trying to do adult education. You can't just speak at people and expect them to understand. You have to engage them in a conversation so that they are working with the material in their brains. And so I really like the Q and A. I'll tell you something else. I was doing a board retreat for one of our hospital clients last month, and I did a lot. I was teaching them about how this process works, and they're nodding, and they're. They're talking about the case for support and everything. And then I say, well, let me do a role play to wrap up. Who would like to volunteer to do a role play? And I promise you, I won't directly ask you for a gift that'll take you right up to the point. And so the most wealthy lady in the room raised her hand to come to the role play with me. And so. And I knew her family had named the new wing of the hospital, and she was their number one prospect. And there I was, I had this opportunity right in front of the board, and she was all excited. You know, we've been talking about fundraising a couple hours, and she was all in on it and very gung ho. And I said, so, Lisa, tell me why your family is so committed to the hospital. I mean, she gave a case for support that almost made me weep. And I'm a pro. And then I said, my second question was, what resonates with you most about the work here, or what areas of the hospital are of strongest interest to you? Well, it turned out there are three areas that, you know, the wound Clinic. Turned out the wound clinic saved her father's foot. Who knew? Nobody.

[Julia Campbell]

If you didn't ask, you wouldn't know.

[Gail Perry]

You know, And I'm just fishing for information, you know, and all of a sudden, this comes out, and it's a dramatic story. Board members are sitting on the edge of their seats listening to the story, getting all into this hospital and how important it is to the community. And then I say, would you like to learn more about the wound clinic and how well they're doing? She said, yes, I would. And then I said, would you be interested in doing more? She looked at me, and she didn't say anything. And she looked at me again. She said, I just might, you know, And I almost fell on the floor because, I mean, you know, there she is, opening the door to a seriously big gift conversation. I just asked a few questions and made her do all the talking.

[Julia Campbell]

So how do we get the confidence to be Gail Perry or Bethann Locke? How do we get the confidence? I remember being a director of development, and I never had studied fundraising, and I was kind of thrown to the wolves a little bit. My executive director was not very supportive, was very much like, go into your tower and just go make your asks, go to your lunches, go to your annual appeals and things like that. And I do have a lot of confidence. I'm a public speaker, and I do have confidence. But I do know a lot of people are introverts or they're. They're not sure. They have imposter syndrome. How can we build that confidence to ask for these big gifts, knowing that, of course, like, a 10k gift is very different from 100k gift. But where can we start?

[Bethann Locke]

I like to remind fundraisers that they are wearing the mantle or the coat, you know, of the organization. They are not just coming in as themselves. They're wearing the legacy of a current donor's relationship with the organization. That's the very first thing they should remember. I know some people are new. That's very difficult. Either new to fundraising or new to the organization.

[Gail Perry]

But.

[Bethann Locke]

But you have the legitimacy of the organization behind you and getting into conversation with that strength and you yourself believing in the mission. I mean, if you don't believe in the mission, you truly have to find another place to go where it has a mission you believe in. Starting from that, and the joy that the donor has hopefully already experienced in giving and having those in your one back pocket, and the other back pocket is knowing a little bit about the donor. So hopefully there's some notes you can read, if not come with an interest in bringing that donor to a point of joy they've already given. You're going to reflect back that with part of, you know, your last year's gift did this if they haven't gotten a report or, you know, thank you again, you were able to support X, Y and Z and then know what you're asking for. So if you, if you haven't had much conversation, see this as the first of three conversations. Don't put the pressure to get the money. Getting the money puts you in that scarcity mindset, and that, honestly, is deadly.

[Julia Campbell]

Oh, the scarcity mindset, right.

[Bethann Locke]

Yes. Yes.

[Gail Perry]

I have a two tips, too, on developing confidence. I like to suggest to beginning or young, newer fundraisers that they start with making thank you visits and practicing some of these questions, which are really just discovery questions in thank you visits because the stakes are very, very low, and also equipping them with a set of questions. We have one participant in our major gifts intensive. She took our series of questions for the conversational ask and she posted them on her computer screen. And she was, you remember the story, Bethany? She was making thank you phone calls and she knew the questions to ask the donor. He was making $1,000 a year gift, and he up and said, I want to make $100,000 gift to support this.

[Julia Campbell]

Wow. She.

[Bethann Locke]

I'll just say it was a woman donor.

[Gail Perry]

Oh, it was a woman.

[Bethann Locke]

Yes, it was a woman.

[Gail Perry]

If you have these questions, you can fall back on them and just make the donor to do all the talking, which lowers the pressure on yourself. Another thing is that this whole concept of emotional intelligence is really fascinating to us. And as I understand it, it means that you sort of know enough about yourself and your triggers and how you operate that you can be aware of how you're acting and you can sort of control yourself. And so I do think making yourself comfortable, you know, in the chair and feeling confident in how you look and all of those things give you more confidence when you're interacting with the donor and being able to really focus on them rather than yourself. What do you think, Bethann, you agree with that?

[Bethann Locke]

I'm just going to add to Julia, you mentioned about introverts versus extroverts, and I would truly emphasize that fundraising is not a profession for extroverts. It is a profession for people. And there are donors who actually love talking to an introvert. They like their quiet, they like their, you know, not so much energy radiating out of them. And as an extrovert person, you Know, one of the things I've had to do is, or get to do is to, you know, when I'm with the donor is to understand what they are as early on in the conversation as I can. So I'll sit back more instead of leaning forward. I definitely ask for that glass of water because I know it will slow the pace of my conversation. If I feel like I'm going too fast, I'll just drink more. It's a problem toward the end of the meeting, of course, but, and in a zoom, I will also have a glass of water that I lift so people know that I'm going to potentially drink while we're chatting because it is my number one way of slowing down. So just basic things.

[Julia Campbell]

You don't come in like guns blazing, like it calms you down, it centers you.

[Bethann Locke]

Accountants, lawyers, they're not into this yada, yada. You know, their time is money. And I need to kind of go at their pace and also make sure I'm very mindful. If I've said I'm meeting for a half hour, I got a 25 minute meeting, you know, so there are little tricks you can use too. Yeah.

[Gail Perry]

And you know, I, there are some occasions when you, the donor wants a pitch, but you find that out ahead of time.

[Julia Campbell]

Right.

[Gail Perry]

And you're prepared. And you know, some of these really, really, really busy and very wealthy people will give you a half an hour and that's it. And so you have to be able to adapt. But I even so, if I was going to do a pitch and I had a half an hour, I would make the donor start by telling me why they care about this organization. I would still do that and ground it so the donor is with me together in the conversation rather than me just talking to them.

[Julia Campbell]

What advice do you have for an organization that's just starting out, sort of cultivating major gifts, that is maybe a younger organization or they have not had a major gifts program. Maybe they've hired a new major gifts officer. What is kind of the first step?

[Bethann Locke]

One thing we sometimes encounter, you know, Gael and I working with people at the Major gifts program, is they've had a direct mail program and the donors are used to having direct mail contact. And as you start to reach out, they're a little bit like, oh, why are they calling me? They must want something, that kind of feeling. So this is another starting to call and thank, having your board call and thank. So people start getting used to different platforms. So important because when you haven't contacted people and you Start contacting people. It is a big shift in an organization. So I think it's an important human thing to do, is to have human contact with your human donors or corporate and foundation donors. That's the first thing is start doing the easy contacts, like Gail said, calling and thanking, checking in to see how the summer went, or different things like that that are conversational. People are suspicious when you just start reaching out and talk. You know, you've gotten in touch with your organization, you're like, how'd they get my number?

[Julia Campbell]

A friend you haven't seen in five years, and you're like, reaches out, you're immediately like, what do they want?

[Bethann Locke]

Yes, yes. So that's one thing. Gail, what else do you have?

[Gail Perry]

Well, you know, I really rely on the thank you calls and, you know, practice your discovery questions with thank you visits and calls. And, you know, you're just building a major gift program, major donor network. You have to develop your prospect list, your pipeline, your portfolio. And one of the best ways is to, you know, start with your list of donors and try to determine who are the most loyal and passionate donors with capacity. And there are all sorts of ways to do that. We do recommend a lot of time focusing in on figuring out who the right people are, because fundraisers only have so much time and you really want to use your time wisely. Therefore, you don't just willy nilly. I mean, all the donors, listen, all the donors deserve as much love as you can possibly spare them and send them, period. However, or in addition, you want to focus particularly on some people who have deep pockets and wealth capacity who really, really love your work and might like to get more involved. So those are the ones we're really looking for to help create some transformational funding for nonprofit missions. We need more money for our missions. There's no question about it.

[Julia Campbell]

I see it as giving them that option, giving them that gift to give a gift, giving them that opportunity. You talked about that. The donor that you made a thank you call and went from $1,000 to $100,000. Do you see a lot of wealthier donors or. Or people that could potentially be major gift owners kind of testing the waters in that way?

[Bethann Locke]

I'll tell you a little bit more about that because it was somebody I'd coached. So, you know, for them, a $10,000 gift, it was a girls Catholic school, a neighborhood school, and they just had really done great thanking for people in the Bronx. And you know, usually people move away from their hometown. As they moved away, they were kind of Too far to call, Right. So they had great thank yous for people sort of in New York and not so great afterwards. So I said, you need to start calling every single thousand dollar donor that.

[Julia Campbell]

Is, especially if they don't live there because they probably have a great story.

[Bethann Locke]

Hello. So and actually they then Gail through, through the major gifts intensive, they did the wealth screening. This woman, I'm going to tell you, has a very unusual last name and she kept her maiden name so they could have foundered if they'd googled her. She actually lives in Seattle. I recognize the husband immediately because I'm from Seattle. So she said, oh, I know she's. She sends a gift in. Let's just say it was maybe every June and I think maybe the gift's coming. I said, call and thank her anyways, you know, if you haven't thanked her for a year, you need to start calling to thank. The woman really said, I'm so glad she didn't answer. Person hung up. Always leave a message. Always leave a message. She got a 206 call right away after that and it was this woman. She said, it's really nice to hear from you. And so she sort of, you know, thank you for what you've done and we're thinking about doing this for the new students. And she said, I'd like to make that a hundred thousand dollar gift. Now this is an amazing gift. It's an amazing leap. It's now her annual gift.

[Julia Campbell]

Wow.

[Bethann Locke]

It's now her annual gift. And so it seems fantastical. But when the donor especially, I think for things like schools, universities, where there's been relationships, where there's been growth, people feel strongly and if you don't open the door to a conversation about why that is meaningful. My suggestion to her was they had four values of the school, compassion, you know, et cetera, et cetera. I said to her, ask which of the four values you've been leaning into most this last year.

[Julia Campbell]

Wow.

[Bethann Locke]

So that was the question she asked as the discovery question. And that sparks people right back to high school is an important time, growth. There are other times, but that can be a really key transition moment for a lot of people. As you know from Adrienne Sargent and Jen Chang, this identity portion is so important, people's identity as to why they give and what it means as they develop their own identity of themselves and away from other parts of the themselves. So I think those kinds of questions are really important when you work with an organization that works in those deep feeling or growth areas. Hospitals are one of them. Universities are another one.

[Julia Campbell]

They want to feel that connection no matter where they're living.

[Bethann Locke]

Yep.

[Gail Perry]

You know, I want to say too that our Major Gifts Intensive, just this four month coaching and training program, we have had know of at least two $1 million gifts that were thrown at our clients without a formal ask based on this approach. And there have been many six figure gifts. We continue to be stunned at the results that large and small organization fundraisers are able to achieve with this approach. It really works.

[Julia Campbell]

I love that. Oh my gosh. Thank you both so much for being here. This is absolutely fantastic. Where can people learn about the Major Gifts Intensive? Follow the blog, follow on all the socials.

[Gail Perry]

Yes. And I think it's coaching.com that's right.

[Julia Campbell]

Major giftscoaching.com and gailperry group.com.

[Bethann Locke]

Yes, that's right. And Gail's got a great blog. And you also are very active on LinkedIn, so you can find lots of great information if you go to the Gail Perry Group or go to Gail Perry herself. You know, we just really know that there are so many people with resources who want to make the world a better place. And we know that fundraisers are often the bridge to the organizations and what a beautiful thing it is to invite people to make an amazing difference in their community, in the lives of others. That's the word we want to spread.

[Julia Campbell]

Okay, well, thank you both for being on the podcast. I'm sure everyone's going to be checking out the links and yeah, just keep changing the world. I really appreciate the work that you do.

[Bethann Locke]

Thank you and thank you for this. Thank you for inviting us.

[Julia Campbell]

Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then you can find me on Instagram @juliacampbell77. Keep changing the world. You notice non profit unicorn.