← Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
Nonprofit Nation with Julia Campbell
The Nonprofit Sector in 2026: Challenges, Hope, and the Road Ahead with Rob Harter
00:35:21
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- [00:00]
A
In a world hungry for change, nonprofit impact matters more than ever. Yet you're asked to constantly do more with less. What if you could do more with more? That's the promise of Bloomerang, the giving platform built for purpose fundraising, CRM and volunteer insights are integrated to reveal opportunity and generosity so you can make more connections with more funds raised for even more impact. Now that's more like it. Learn how you can do more with more@bloomerang.com that's B L O O M E R A N G.com now on to the episode. Hello and welcome to Nonprofit Nation. I'm your host, Julia Campbell, and I'm going to sit down with nonprofit industry experts, fundraisers, marketers, and everyone in between to get real and discuss what it takes to build that movement that you've been dreaming of. I created the Nonprofit Nation podcast to share practical wisdom and strategies to help you confidently find your voice, definitively grow your audience, and effectively build your movement. If you're a nonprofit newbie or an experienced professional who's looking to get more visibility, reach more people, and create even more impact, then you're in the right place. Let's get started. Leah Campbell, I'm really excited to be here with you today. And as we head into 2026, I know that you and other nonprofit leaders are really asking some tough questions, like where is funding going? Why is donor behavior shifting? How can we keep our our teams motivated in the face of burnout and uncertainty? And this week I'm joined by Dr. Rob Harder, veteran nonprofit executive leadership coach and host of the long running Nonprofit Leadership Podcast. And we're going to explore what's really happening across the sector and sort of where hope lies. He has over 30 years of experience in leading and building social impact organizations. And we actually met at an event when we were on a panel together and just immediately clicked and said we have to be on each other's podcasts. And. And it's a long time coming because of our crazy.
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B
That was a while ago, wasn't it?
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A
I know that seems like so long ago, but I still have you. Oh, was it? Okay. I'm thrilled to have you actually on the podcast. Welcome to Nonprofit Nation.
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B
Julia, thanks for having me on the show. Excited about this?
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A
Yes. So let's start with trends, because I know that you watch nonprofit trends closely and you have been watching them closely for years. So what do you feel is different about this moment that we're in entering 2026?
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B
That's a good question to start off with. And yeah, I would say there's probably, just for time's sake, two trends that I see that definitely are changing, and I think they're a little bit more acute than they used to be. So first, on the burnout staff retention side, you know these stats, but just for the listeners, more and more you're seeing high burnout, and retention is just beginning. More and more difficult to keep people on your staff. And I think the couple reasons for it, I think, number one, we all made it through Covid, and some people just that experience making it through Covid, they kind of burnt out through that process, Those who hung in there, then they realized, oh, my goodness, so I made it through. And then the needs, often in their organizations, particularly humanitarian organizations, and the funding to meet those needs has gone down, while the needs have gone up. Like a lot of food pantries, for example, a lot more people that need food today, but there's less money to go around to support their programs to serve these folks. So this double whammy, if you will, is then adding even more pressure to people to stay in their jobs and really feeling that burnout. And then I think you've had these folks on their show, but there was this report that came out last year. It was called the Social Impact. I think I'll get the exact title here. The Social Impact Staff retention report, I think is what they called it. And here's what they found. 74% of nonprofit staff are already looking for a new job this year. And this was 2024, so last year. But 74%, that's what they found, was three out of four of every current employed staff person in a nonprofit was potentially for another job. So that's a little scary, you know? Right, That's. That's really concerning. Have to have that much turnover. And then they also found that 65% of those folks were unsure if they left. They weren't sure they would even stay in the nonprofit or social impact sector at all. So, in other words, they were looking for jobs outside the sector. And so I think that's a real telling stat. And that's why I would say your question's well asked, because it is a little bit different. I think the burnout rate is so high, I think people are unclear on their job descriptions. I think there's less money coming into these organizations, but there's people are being asked to do more. And so you've got a combination of a lot of pressures that are just really weighing the staff retention and the burnout rate to a different level. If you will. And then closely related to that is the financial pressure. You know, financial trends already were going down in terms of giving to charities, and nonprofits were already going down before COVID Then we saw this big spike. Right. People started giving a lot to nonprofits and social impact organizations during COVID which was great. People responded to the pandemic and the needs that were arising. But once the COVID kind of pandemic subsided, as you and I know both know, the needs continue to go up, actually, but the giving went down, and that trend line continues to go down. And then in the American context, to add to the pressure, a lot of nonprofits depend on federal funding. And there was massive cuts this year with federal funding. Sometimes just the immediate and drastic, like 40, 50, 60% of their budget overnight was just cut. And so now you're really looking at a very difficult circumstance. And that's why I feel like the trends are much more different now and again, more acute, more difficult. And so you're seeing staff burnout and just some organizations just aren't able to make it. There's been a lot of nonprofits. You may have had people on your show talk about this. There's a trend of nonprofits closing their doors or merging with other ones because they just can't keep open.
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A
Exactly. I know several of my clients, if not a hundred percent of my clients, but ones that I've heard from, are really experiencing financial pressure based on either cut state funding or cut federal funding. And then also, you know, the staff turnover, I think is a really huge issue. But it just all relates. It's sort of all related together because we're expecting to do more with less. We're expected to work longer hours. And then sometimes, you know, the need. Not sometimes, but often the need can really way on our shoulders. Seeing all this need and not being able to help everyone that we want to help. I mean, if you're talking to like a social worker today or a teacher, just thinking about the constant need and not just being one person or being a staff of very small and not being able to help everyone that, that you want to help. So I see those trends as well. I absolutely see them. What are we going to leave behind? We're going to talk about hope later. So we're not being very hopeful right now.
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B
Yeah, kind of laying the foundation.
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A
These are the trends. Yeah, I'm definitely seeing it. I guess actually one hopeful thing that I saw was the immense participation in giving. Tuesday I got the emails and the stats. $4 billion raised and so many Millions of people participating. So I think that's hopeful. Maybe if we could just do that. But we'll talk more about what's hopeful.
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B
Yeah, that's right.
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A
Okay, but are there any sort of long held assumptions or rules in the sector that you think are no longer serving us? We've got to leave behind. They're holding us back. Yeah.
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B
I just had Dan Pallotta on my show recently. You know Dan.
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A
I do know Dan.
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B
Yep. And many people know him over.
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A
Wait, what is his TED Talk called again?
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B
Yeah, I've forgotten the TED Talk.
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A
But Unchartable is a movie.
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B
Is the movie. That's right. Uncharitable. Exactly. And you're right, his TED Talk, I think it was 2013, was just one of the most watched TED talks of all time. And it was all how people view charity or nonprofits or social impact organizations in the wrong way. And one of the things he mentioned. So I'll basically borrow from our conversation, because I think he's right. I think a couple of things. Number one, the overhead myth, and this has been long into our psyche, I think when it comes to nonprofit organizations and donors and board members, is this idea that you shouldn't pay your people very well. Right. And you really shouldn't do much with overhead in terms of like marketing or communication to get the word out about what you do, because that's a kind of a waste. You want all of it to go to your programs. Now, I'm a big believer and you'd be a good steward of the money that comes in. And you want to make sure you can track every dollar. And actually the organization I led, we got audited every year because I wanted to make sure donors knew, hey, someone else is looking in, making sure it all's going to the right places. So that's good. Having said that, I found that if you don't pay people well, you're not going to get the best people and you're not going to keep them. That's another staff retention issue, is you can't, you won't keep them. Right. And I think when it comes to marketing and communication, of course you can have abuses of just paying way too much money on whatever social media plan you have or marketing. But if you can't get the story out about what you're doing, owners aren't going to find out what you're doing.
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A
Right.
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B
We are an information overload culture. And so it's really tough to get your story through anyway. So you have to be really pointed, very intentional, and so I agree with him. That's something that's never really served the nonprofit sector well. And I think that needs a lot more looking into now. I think the good news is because of him and a lot of other people, and even during COVID I noticed this changed a bit. Where people started giving gifts that were undiagnosed. They were just like unrestricted. Exactly. That's right. There wasn't specific to us, the program or whatever, and you can just use it wherever most needed. And I like that trend. I think the trend now is heading in the right direction, but there's a long way to go. And so I know a lot of people that I talk to just feel like it's tough to continue to take both a paycheck and if there's also just not a lot to work with to expand and grow your nonprofit, it gets discouraging. And then the second one, then related to that is this trend of not taking risks in nonprofits. Yes, they. Right. It's like there's not risks. Taking risks is not rewarded at all in a nonprofit context because people want to know, where did my money go and what's the program impact? Right. And so if you take risks, then you don't know if it's going to make an impact. And yet some of the most difficult problems, whether it be food insecurity, housing affordability, the list goes on. That nonprofits are often look to to help solve or at least address in their community, it's difficult to come up with any more creative ideas or innovative ideas to address these really big issues because it's not rewarded. And so that's a real problem. I think that continues to plague, I think, the nonprofit sector, because people are just too afraid. They're like, we'll just do what's safe, what we've done the last 15, 20 years, because it works. People keep giving to it. And so I think that's a. That's a real issue.
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A
How can nonprofit, not just professionals, but how can leaders, like. How do you coach leaders to balance that balance, like mission alignment and skepticism and that sort of scarcity mindset with risk taking and innovation?
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B
Yeah, that's. I think it's. Well, first of all, this is not easy. It's easy to diagnose the issue, but it's much more difficult to implement a solution. Right. So if I were to coach somebody on that, I think a couple of things. Number one, hopefully you've built a good track record. So I think you've got to have trust with your board and your donors. And your community. So build that trust. If you don't have trust, start there. Build trust. And people need to know that what you're saying you're doing, you're actually doing, you're accomplishing your mission. So that's number one. Once you have a solid foundation of trust, I think then I would get either a task force, certainly do some one on ones with donors, people in the community, with your board members, and say, hey, we're wanting to try some out of the box thinking in terms of some new innovative ideas of how to solve whatever problem you're trying to solve. Would you be a part of the process? So bring them in to be part of the process. And we acknowledge right up front there is some risks involved. We may not be able to, this may not work, but we want to try it. What do you think about this? And so kind of have this open process where you're leading and guiding the process as the nonprofit leader, but you're bringing in people to be a part of the solution. You're being very transparent about it. And I'd also say it needs to be. I don't know what percentage would be makes sense for your organization. It can't be 100% of what you're doing. Right. So whatever it is, a 10%, maybe 15, 20% at most, I think of what your dollars, your time and your staff to put towards this new innovative idea. So you're not betting the farm, so to speak, on the entire organization on this one innovative idea, but you are trying to push yourself and come up with creative ideas. I think that would be the way I would go about it initially. And again, just keep that open communication with your donors and your board for their feedback and potentially their pushback. And then slowly, I think since you built the trust, I think you can slowly build trust, try things and then hopefully, right. Some of the creative ideas that come out of that, maybe they don't work to a hundred percent, but even if you get 50% return on your investment, so to speak, then you can build off of that and keep improving. So that would be my initial suggestion.
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A
Yeah, we get so stuck in the golf tournaments and the galas and the, you know, annual report that's 25 pages that we have to mail out. And if that's working for people, sometimes that really does work, that's great. But trying to look for new and innovative ways to connect with donors, not even just to raise money, but to reach new people and to get the word out, I think is, is really important. So you've written about the danger of staying in relief mode. Why do so many nonprofits get stuck there? And what is it, first of all? But why do we get stuck there?
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B
Yeah, I'm so glad you asked that question. So how I understand it is when you're in relief mode, you're seeing what are the immediate needs in your community and what's the immediate need? So if you're a food pantry, you need to get food to people. Right. If you're in the housing affordability organization, you just. We need to get houses, you know, for people and make sure it's affordable for people to get into. So there's this immediate need, rather than maybe stepping back a little bit to understand the bigger possible causes or the systemic reasons that these issues are an issue in the first place. Again, I go back to one of my guests doing this incredible, incredible work in Honduras, and he talked about how he started this organization. I think it was like 30 years ago, and they first started with just relief mode, meaning they got food, they provided housing for people, they really tried to get clean water for these folks in Honduras, sanitation, things like that. Well, then all of a sudden, as they started doing good work and they were helping a lot of people, out of the blue, some of these sometimes single moms or people that were low income, their homes would literally just be taken with no recourse, no ability to, like, scramble back. It was just because there was a ton of injustice in the legal system, number one. But also just in the community, there were some power dynamics where these folks that didn't have a lot of money, didn't have many rights, and so they literally lose their home, they lose kind of everything. And so he had several examples of that where he realized, I could give them food all day and provide homes, but if it's going to be taken from them, then we need to get back. What's the bigger issue? Well, the bigger issue, he realized, was justice. He needed to really get to the systemic issues. In that culture. There's some real justice issues that kind of farther upstream would prevent people losing their homes, which then drives them into even more poverty. And so I think you could apply that same principle to whatever work you're doing is what's deeper? What's the underlying cause perhaps of what the issue that you're dealing with on the front end that causes, you know, relief is important, by the way. It's important we deal with. We feed people that are hungry. Right? But if we only do that and don't think of the bigger picture and the systemic causes maybe of that, you're going to have limited results. And so I think that's the idea of taking the time to look at the long term solution and really uncover what's causing this in a particular community. And, you know, get government entities involved, work with the for profit sector, you know, work with faith communities. Like do a community wide kind of goal too, of broadening what you're doing. So it's not just, we're going to provide this one service to this one group of people. Let's broaden the conversation, get more people involved to say, well, I think it's a bigger issue. I think the issue is this potentially. And I think we all need to help work together to solve it. So I don't know if that's helpful, but that's how I see it.
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A
So I served in the Peace Corps. I was in Senegal after college for about two and a half years. And that is exactly, exactly what I saw. And the reason that I think the Peace Corps is so successful, I'm sure it's completely decimated right now, but when I was in the Peace Corps, the reason I think that it was so successful is because we spent so much time living in the community, learning the language, learning the customs, talking to people, and we were not even allowed to pick a project until we'd spent a year in country.
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B
Wow, okay.
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A
We could think of projects, we could think, everyone wants to build a well, everyone wants to build a hospital, everyone wants to do the same things. But it's exactly like you said, without really understanding what is the underlying culture or understanding what are the systemic issues, then it's going to be really difficult to make any kind of lasting and sustainable change. So, you know, two and a half years is not a very long time, but I do. What we would see is a lot of relief groups coming in for three weeks and building a well. And then the well would not be used because of the, the village couldn't afford the parts or it wasn't a place that people could access. I mean, and you start seeing that and you think like, oh my gosh, I, I'm already seeing, I'm seeing exactly what you're saying, that it's hard when people, they have such good hearts and good intentions.
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B
That's right.
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A
And doing that work of understanding systems is incredibly difficult. So I, I just, I feel that so strongly. And always when I talk to nonprofits about communicating mission, because communications is really my specialty, I ask them and I implore them, your mission is bigger than just backpacks for children. It's bigger than literacy. It's bigger than just simply giving a person a warm bed. It's bigger than that. And we need to start talking about these bigger issues. And relief is very important and we need to raise money for it and we need to do it. But we also need to educate people on why this is happening because I think this regular donor is sort of like, well, I mean, I. It's a stupid thing to say if you say this, but like, why haven't we ended homelessness yet? Or there's no food insecurity in our community, or it's just people have these myths and misconceptions. So I love the idea of like addressing those myths and misconceptions and stereotypes and kind of thinking deeper. But it's so hard when we're in the trenches and we're just, you know, putting out fires every single day.
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B
Exactly. I loved your example of the Senegal being there and what a great opportunity. I'm so that's great for you that you had that experience. I bet it was incredible.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And life changing in many ways. I had charity water on my show and I'm sure you've had them as well. And they talked about that. One of the things they, as they, they, you know, done such a good job of getting so much water to so many people, but when they first started doing this, oftentimes they talked about, well, they get a well dug and they'd get the pump working and, hey, the village had water and then they'd leave and go to the next village. And then like you were saying earlier, something would happen with the pump, it stopped working or it, you know, needed repairs or whatever and they didn't know how to fix it. And then they were embarrassed. They felt really bad about, like, what do we say? I don't know, because it's like, it's a big deal. So they just left it and they. And so this well was no longer working. Even though everything was there, they just needed. So again, that bigger picture of let's not just water going, let's make sure we can sustain this and train people to fix it and train people to clean it or whatever else needs to happen to make sure this water stayed a viable option for that community. I thought that was such a good example too, of this not just looking at the quick relief and moving on to the next village and have another cool celebration of water being for that community, but really making sure long term, this is actually serving that community well.
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A
Yeah. And what I do love about charity water. Also in their storytelling is they revisit stories and they go back to villages and they are constantly, you know, it's really a lot of, for them, I don't think it's very sustainable. It's not just acquisition, acquisition, acquisition. It's. It's really a lot of like, how are we sustaining this and showing people that this is a long term solution that requires resources to fund it. I think that's so important. So. Oh, this is so good.
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B
Cool.
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A
So when you, you work as a coach and you work with nonprofit executives, what are some of the most common challenges that you're seeing lately? And how are you giving people advice around it? I guess how can we be better leaders in 2026?
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B
Yeah, we do. You know, I think I'm a big believer. What partly really motivated me to go into coaching and consulting for that matter, is I really believe that an organization goes at the speed of its leadership. So it's not just the single leader, but I think it's the leadership of that organization. So if you can improve the leadership and you can help get the leadership back on track, that organization is going to thrive. So that's a big motivation for me to work with the leaders of various organizations. I would say. Yeah, a couple of things that I've seen just over and over again. Number one, really, I would. It boils down to self leadership and managing your own self, you know, before you're leading others. And so, for example, real practical tool is how do you manage your schedule? One of the things I work on is helping them do time blocking, which again, is not original with me.
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A
I love time blocking. Cal Newport.
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B
Is it the best?
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A
Yeah.
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B
Right.
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A
Well, okay, so you've heard me talk about it. I do love time blocking. Yeah.
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B
Well, it's such a great tool. And when you follow it, right. And I think so, number one, just following it, having accountability. But there's a couple additions that I do with people that are, when I'm working with their time blocking, a couple things. I encourage people, I actually give them a sheet of what I started doing with my own time blocking. You can color code it based on the areas that you're focused on. So for a lot of executive directors and CEOs of nonprofits, you wear so many hats, right. And so you do so many things. What happens often is you're always just fighting fires and you're spread so thin, you don't really focus on your strengths and what you need to do as the executive director to really move that organization forward. So Perhaps it's fundraising, perhaps it's vision casting. There's a couple of things, you know, depends on your organization. So by color coding your time on your time blocking sheet, then say, you know, one color is for fundraising, for example, one color is for staff training, perhaps, or one colors with donor relationships. Relationships. So you spread that out and color code it so you know where your time is going. And then third, it was actually from a book called at yout Best by Cary Newhoff. And what he talks about is that we all have limited energy, right? We only have so much energy for the day. So to really maximize your energy on the most important task that only you really should be doing. And so he just breaks it into green, yellow, and red. Green being when you have the most energy in the day. Some people, it's from 9 to 2, for example, or 10 to 3 or whatever. Some. Then you get to yellow, where you're not as sharp, you still have some energy, you get some things done, then you get to the red zone, where you really are not really at your best. And oftentimes not all, but for some people, maybe that's in the evening or afternoon. And when do you have some of your most important meetings? Make sure you intentionally schedule your meetings that are most important during your green zone, or certainly at least in yellow. Don't do it in your red zone area time. But I've been in meetings so many times where they go late and into the night. Right. Because that's when people can meet and you're dead tired, everyone's tired. And you can't finish or conclude a conversation or make a decision. And so then you make a bad decision just to end the meeting because you want to be. You want to go home, your kids are waiting for you, you know, whatever. And you just make a bad decision because you're in the red zone of energy. So that's just another way to layer your time blocking with both, you know, where you're putting your time, and are you actually really maximizing your best energy for those things that are really going to have the biggest impact for the organization? So that's one of the biggest things I've worked with in my coaching, and it's really helped people turn the light bulb on and they're like, oh, wow, I never thought of it that way. And now they're much more intentional with their time.
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A
Yeah, being intentional, I think, is really challenging when you're a leader and you have so many things flying at you and so many people reporting to you and so many Emails and so many different things, but, you know, really being intentional with how you spend your time. Even just starting out, like an hour in the morning and trying to be very. Planning your day or something like that. I'm really bad about, like, wrapping up my day. I tend to just leave the computer and all my notes and everything and just. I'm so tired, you know, I usually just, like, leave it. But wrapping up your day is so important. I used to do that in my time blocking, do wrap up my day, but. But lately that's kind of fallen off the radar. But I notice it. I notice it when I don't plan. Yeah.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So let's talk about the nonprofit leadership podcast. How many years have you been doing it? You said it's my 10th year, if you can believe it. Downloads.
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B
I know. 10 years of doing it. It's funny that I look back, it's like 10 years, really. That's a lot of interviews and a lot of conversations. But I've loved it. It's like a passion of mine. I. I feel like I learned so much from all of my guests and my hope when I first started it was I just wanted to make sure people had great content and were exposed and get to meet great leaders who are doing really interesting things or creative, innovative things so they can learn from that and then become better leaders themselves. And so, yeah, it's been an absolute blast. I've absolutely loved the medium of podcasting. I'm glad you and you've had this podcast for a while, and it's really encouraging to see there's some really good podcasts out there in the nonprofit sector specifically that are helping people. I think think that's. That's my hope.
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A
I. I love that. And I. I started it for similar reasons. I really wanted to meet people that I. I wanted to talk to people. I was very curious about what other people were doing. And then I really wanted to just give a resource out to the nonprofit world in any way possible that I could help them. So what is like one or two conversations that you've had that maybe really shifted your thinking or that really stick out to you? I don't know if I could answer that question, but maybe I could. I don't know.
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B
I bet you could if you think about it. But I think it's funny you mentioned. We were together at that conference with ServiceNow in D.C. and that was such an interesting conference, and the topic was AI And I think that's one. I found that I've had a lot of conversations from Microsoft's Justin Spahag, who does their social impact arm to individuals that are trying to just implement it in their nonprofit organization of $10 million a year and everything in between. So AI and the impact of AI, I think, is a common theme that continues to pop up. And there's so many interesting responses to AI. I think there's some that I think you and I talked about a little bit. I think, in the seminar. I think there's some that are just, like, trying to really avoid it at all costs and just like, try to pretend it's not here. And like, no, that's not what we're about. And it's impersonal. And it's like there's data breaches and there's all kinds of different problems with AI. Right. And so let's not implement it. And I realized the reality is every nonprofit leader, you're using AI even if you don't know it. There's already AI built into so many of the things we're using. I mean, the studio that we're in right now has AI built in. Right. Canva is a great tool, by the way. I encourage you to use it. It has AI. Your CRM almost guarantee utilizes some portion of AI, your phone when you do every. Yeah. So you're already using it. So I just turned the. Shift the focus around and say, how can you use AI for good for your organization? I think that's really the question we should be asking ourselves. And I think that's been a conversation we've just really continued to talk through. And then the second one we've already been talking about is the fundraising piece. It's just always a challenge for nonprofits. And I think there has been, as we were sharing earlier, the pressures this year I have noticed higher because of, again, the federal funding cuts not only impacted those who are depending on those cuts or on that money, but then what's happened is for a lot of donors that are foundations or Family foundation individual donors, now there's more pressure on them because people have shifted over and said, well, I can't get money from the federal government. I'm going to go and ask even more from these other Family foundation individual donors right now. Luckily, there are some really wonderful, generous donors we hear a lot about that are giving these huge donations across the board. Those are skewing the numbers a little bit. And I'd be curious to see with Giving Tuesday how much it did skew a little bit, where what they found is that overall dollars may be going up in terms of giving at times, but that's.
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A
Right.
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B
Individual giving is actually still down. And so that's the tricky thing to kind of parse through the data. But I'll just say that's a common conversation, is just fundraising development, building relationships, donor relationships, all that kind of thing.
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A
Yeah. Oh, that's great. So what advice would you give to a leader who might feel discouraged or uncertain about the future of their organization as they enter the new year?
- [29:52]
B
Yeah, that's. I think it's a very real fear, by the way. I think, number one, just acknowledging it, like, you know, I'm just not sure and, you know, acknowledging it the right way and with the right people. But I think acknowledging that and not pretending it's not there, you know, I think there's a real value of being vulnerable and open. I'm a big believer in that. And so then I would say, okay, what can you control and what can you not control? And so the things you can control, you know, Feliz temporarily, just set those aside. But the things you can control really start putting energy into, okay, how can we mitigate these things that we can control, Whether that be how we do fundraising, Maybe it is how you manage your budget. Maybe you do need to cut back on staff, potentially because you've lost 40% of your income potentially, or whatever it is. Or how can you redirect people in your team to actually go out and raise more money in certain areas or use them in a different way that actually enhances your mission? So I think coming up with creative solutions of the things you can control, I found that when people are empowered and know that, hey, I, I, yeah, it's a big problem, but I can actually make a dent in this problem versus trying to worry and stress over things literally you have no control over. That's where I think you really get discouraged and burnt out, because you literally can't control it. So why put any time or energy into it? Look at the things you actually can control. And then kind of what I said earlier, the more you can get your team involved, you know, make this a collaborative effort, get your donors involved, get your board members involved. I feel like the days of being a lone ranger leader, maybe they never should have been a good time. You know, that should be never been the case, but even less so now. Don't be a solo artist, you know, when it comes to leading your nonprofit organization, give people around you, because I think it is really lonely already in leadership. But I think the more you try to get other people to help do this Collaboratively, I think that'll help take the pressure off so that when you're. If you're really looking at discouraging 2026, maybe just having that community and doing it together will lighten the load a bit. I think it'll maybe give you a little more extra encouragement and hope, as you said earlier, to actually see some solutions.
- [31:53]
A
So what gives you hope right now?
- [31:56]
B
Always a great question. Oh, yeah. So, okay. So I say the resilience of people. I've been amazed that even in tough times, people are very resilient. I know. I think it was Angela Duckworth had that book called Grit, and it's a great book if you haven't read it. But this idea of grit and resilience, this idea of when times get tough, I think leaders really need to step up and be tough and be grit in the sense of resilience, not in terms of being empathetic, but really being resilient and able to move forward even in tough times. So I think I've seen that resilience across the board. And then I've also seen this next generation, both millennials and Gen Zs, Gen zers. There's a real passion. Even people that maybe don't commit full time into a nonprofit role or have a job in the nonprofit sector or the social impact sector, even if they're going into corporations or other businesses, they have this mentality that they want to make a difference in the world. They really want their company not just to make money, but to actually do good in the world. They keep doing studies on that, and these next two generations are really wanting to be part of things that make a difference rather than just make money. And so I think that's encouraging. One of the trend lines, we didn't have a chance to talk about much, but there's a lot more corporations that create social impact arms or foundations, and they have a lot of money, obviously, to use, but they're using it to work with nonprofits as well as just do direct relief sometimes. And I think that's a great trend now that impacts the nonprofit world a little bit. And I think there needs to be more conversation. But I think the good news is a lot of companies are trying to do good through their company. And I think it's driven a lot by these millennials and Gen Zers that really don't want to just, again, make money, but they really want to make a difference.
- [33:31]
A
I love that. So, oh, my gosh, this has been fantastic. Rob, where can people learn more about your work and connect with you.
- [33:40]
B
Yes. The easiest is robharder.com that's really just my name. Robharter.com H A R T E R Or you can also just Google the nonprofit leadership podcast. I'd love to have you tune in. There's some great guests. We're gonna have you on the show here shortly. So you're getting to listen to Julia as well as just some other wonderful guests and so those probably the best two ways. I'm also on LinkedIn, so LinkedIn is where I probably hang out the most when it comes to social media. I've found it's a great platform and a lot of people spend some time there.
- [34:07]
A
Great. Well, I will put all those links in the show notes so everyone connect with Rob. Listen to the nonprofit leadership podc. Thanks so much Rob for being here. This has been great.
- [34:16]
B
Thanks for having me, Julia. It's been a great conversation.
- [34:24]
A
Well, hey there. I wanted to say thank you for tuning into my show and for listening all the way to the end. If you really enjoyed today's conversation, make sure to subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast app and you'll get new episodes downloaded as as soon, soon as they come out. I would love if you left me a rating or a review because this tells other people that my podcast is worth listening to and then me and my guests can reach even more earbuds and create even more impact. So that's pretty much it. I'll be back soon with a brand new episode, but until then you can find me on Instagram. Juliacampbell77 Keep changing the world, you non prophet unicorn.