← Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership | Fundraising | Board Development | Communications
Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership | Fundraising | Board Development | Communications
Ep 229: Imposter Syndrome Is Real—6 Ways To Overcome It
00:27:01
Many nonprofit leaders feel like they’re just one mistake away from being “found out.” Even experienced executives, including myself, wrestle with that nagging voice of doubt, especially in moments of high visibility or pressure.
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- [00:00]
Joan Gary
As a nonprofit leader, you deserve tools and support that help you to thrive. That's why I feel it is important to introduce you to today's sponsor, DonorPerfect. Their All in one fundraising platform simplifies donor management, communications and reporting so you can focus on what you do best. Changing lives. Plus, their expert team is always on hand to cheer you on. Do you want a partner who truly gets you? Visit donorperfect.com joan to learn more. So you all know the wizard of Oz, right? Three of its most famous characters are riddled with imposter syndrome. The Scarecrow, the Tin man, and the Cowardly Lion. And then we can add a fourth. In the film version, the metaphor truly comes to life when Toto pulls back the curtain to reveal that the wizard is just an old vaudeville guy from Kansas. We love Dorothy's three yellow brick road companions because we can see what they do. Not that the things they feel insecure about are there for all the world to see and that their loyalty and determination kill off their imposter syndrome just like they kill off the Witch of the West. And of course, we all know that Dorothy was wearing the ruby slippers all along, right? Today it's time to talk about the imposter syndrome that riddles so many of you. What does it look like? What are the remedies? And I want to try to help remind you about the slippers you've been wearing all along.
- [01:39]
Podcast Host
Welcome to Nonprofits are Messy with Joan Gary and Experts. This podcast is your go to space for insights, advice and inspiration designed to help nonprofit leaders overcome challenges and drive impact. Whether you're navigating small beginnings or leading a larger organization, we're here to support you every step of the way. Together with Joan and a diverse group of expert guests, we tackle the big questions nonprofit leaders face and offer actionable advice to future fuel your leadership journey. A special thank you to donorperfect for sponsoring this episode and supporting nonprofits that we love. Now let's jump in.
- [02:32]
Joan Gary
There are all kinds of definitions of imposter syndrome, but there's an infographic and I am an infographic geek. I'm not going to lie that we've included in the show notes that really captures what imposter syndrome is like. Imagine a circle and most of the circle says what I think others know. And then there's a tiny little circle inside that circle that says what I know. We always believe when we are in our imposter syndrome state that everybody else knows more than we do, that the job we have wasn't Actually supposed to be ours, that somehow or another there was a mistake. My middle initial is M. Maybe they meant to hire Joan T. Gary. Who knows? I don't know. But we suffer from this belief that everybody else knows more than we do. We also suffer from what I call when is the real executive director going to arrive? That's certainly how I felt on my first day as an executive director, having never had any fundraising experience and realizing how deeply we were in financial disarray. They hired me to fundraise. No, the other person must have dropped out, maybe. I don't know. So it happens to the best of us. Actually, some of the best of us have imposter syndrome. And if you don't actually let it eat you up, it can be an opportunity for you to have a bit of a growing edge. So about seven years into my tenure at glaad, I walked into the Kodak Theater in Hollywood. You know that place where they do the Oscars, that big place where all the celebrities go. My director of special events brought me there to evaluate it as a venue for the GLAAD Media Awards. Now, I had proven myself a highly capable leader of an impactful nonprofit organization. And of course, I had seen this venue every single year when I am one of those award show geeks and I'm glued to the Oscars. All of a sudden as I stand there, someone says, excuse me, who's in charge? I felt like I was nine. The nine year old in me eked out this little voice that sounded like I was not me. Our special event director, Jason Burlingame, basically knocked me in the ribs and told me that my mouth was hanging open. I didn't think it was possible that I could be running an organization that was about to do its annual event at the same venue the Oscars were held and that we could and that we would fill it. I wasn't skeptical. I just didn't feel like I belonged, like someone else should run an organization that has an event at the Kodak Theater. I felt like a complete imposter. The thought balloon above my head was providing instructions to Jason to go and find the real person in charge. Folks who run organizations that are successful quite often lean into that success. They own it. But here's what I have learned from years of working with thousands of nonprofit leaders of all sizes and shapes and varying stages of their journeys. Nonprofit executive directors are uniquely prone to this syndrome. So let's talk about what it is, and then I have some thoughts about how you might cope with it. So I run A membership site for board and staff leaders of small to mid sized nonprofits from North America and around the world. Since we started in 2017, we have resourced and supported over 25,000 leaders. And I often use the private community we have there to kick the tires on things I'm thinking about, things I'm thinking about writing or podcasting about. And so I thought I would actually use this topic to sort of crowdsource from the folks in our community that we call the Village. These remarkable, generous, overworked folks who take the time to help each other and to offer me some words of wisdom. And so I posted in the Village and I asked people if they had experienced imposter syndrome and if they had a sentence or, I don't know, some way that they could capture what imposter syndrome felt like for them. Well, you'd think I was giving away free hundred dollar bills. I couldn't capture the responses fast enough. Seriously, I couldn't. I clearly had hit a nerve and I thought it was funny at first until I realized just how many of them there were. And then I thought, oh goodness, this is a problem and maybe we can do something to help. So I bet you could make a list, but I'm gonna offer you just a sample of a few of the ones that came up, or variations on a theme. Like there were so many of them, I had to sort of group them into categories and see if they resonate for you. Here's one. I need to work longer, harder and more hours to do this job because I don't know what I'm doing. I'm sure that this person does not say this to their largest funder, but this is the thought balloon that sits over many people's heads. Does it sit over yours? Oh, this is a good one. When someone tells me what a great job I did I'm doing, I think if only they knew the things I'm not getting done or the things I'm not doing. Well, I know they wouldn't say that. Do you ever feel this way when asked a question I don't have the answer to? I feel paralyzed because I should have the answers. My job is to know all the answers. Here's one that came from person who had been an executive director for like 10 years and had been to board meetings like six times a year for 10 years. I dread every board meeting because I think I will look stupid and I'm sure that something will go wrong. This particular member went on to say that in those 10 years, nothing really had Ever kind of gone wrong. Oh, this is one I bet rings true for you. I blow feedback way out of proportion. A small, helpful suggestion feels like an attack. I have experienced many of these myself. It is hard to trust my gut. I feel like it's better when my decisions are affirmed by those I see as smarter or better than me. Other executive directors know how to do this. I'm never gonna be that good. Oh, I keep hearing from the board about another ED in the community who's a total rock star and that I should reach out to them. Now, it would never cross this person's mind that the reason that that was suggested was because that person was also a rock star and that rock stars should know one another. No, no, no. That's not how we hear these things from our boards, is it? And this is a good one. I'm going to tell you how bad or weak I am at something before you discover it. Something like this. Now, finances are not my forte. In fact, I think I failed a couple of high school math classes. But let me take you through the monthly P and L. All right, I'll just read one more, and then we'll go on to remedies, shall we? Why did the board hire me to begin with? Clearly, the person they really wanted dropped out. Well, I will tell you that when I was hired as the executive director at glaad, if I had known who the other finalist was, imposter syndrome would have been an understatement of the decade, as that person had been an ed, had fundraised, was a great public speaker. If I had known. Oh, my goodness, I'm so glad I didn't know. So I've created an imposter syndrome scorecard, which you're gonna find in the show notes, and you can actually take this and score yourself. But what I'm gonna do, for the purposes of this conversation today, is I'm just gonna assume that many of these things rank true for you. And I don't think it's a bad assumption. I just don't think it is. I coach people who run big organizations who are riddled with imposter syndrome. I had it myself. I actually sometimes have it myself. When someone comes up to me and says, you're a. Someone who really is an expert in leadership in the nonprofit sector. And I have a question for you. And I think to myself, I wonder where the real leadership expert is. Why don't we get that person in here to answer that question? So it's a real thing, and I think it's different from insecurity, don't you? I mean, there's certainly insecurity is part of it, but people have such high expectations of nonprofit leaders expect them to be so good at so many different things. And by the way, I can be insecure and say, you know, I'm not that great at finance, for example, and I can be self aware enough about that to say, hey, you know, I should really take a finance for the non financial executive class at a local college or something, right? Imposter syndrome just kind of comes and goes and can really thwart your ability to lead, I think, and what it really requires to overcome it. The remedies that I've come up with are antidotes that play to your strengths, that get you to kind of really see how great you are. We're gonna take a short break and when we come back, I'm going to offer you what I think are valuable remedies for this imposter syndrome that comes and goes in waves depending on the situation and who the stakeholders are you're talking with. And I think they're really going to help you to remember how great you are. We'll be right back. Are you a staff or board member of a small to mid sized nonprofit? Now, you might feel alone, but trust me, you are not. I built the Nonprofit Leadership Lab for the millions who are just like you. You'll find time saving resources when your pants are on fire, opportunities to uplevel your skills, and a warm, nurturing, private community of what we call superheroes. Thousands of board and staff leaders call the lab home and we'd love for you to join us. Learn more@nonprofitleadershiplab.com podcast so there are six of them. If you think you're riddled with imposter syndrome, here are six things you can do. So in my mind, somebody who's riddled with imposter syndrome has a problem because it can really be an impediment to your leadership and absolutely impede your ability to really shine. You did get the job. You are the rock star. Maybe the only person that doesn't see it is you. Just like, oh my gosh, that tin man who says he doesn't have a heart and he keeps sobbing along the yellow brick road and rusting up and they have to keep giving him the oil can and you're saying, oh my gosh, he's so sentimental and what that guy says he needs is a heart. That's how I think about this. So if you believe that you are riddled with Imposter syndrome. Here are six remedies that I think could help. The first one is super simple. All you need is a mirror. Go stand in front of it and repeat after me. I am a leader. I was hired for this particular job because people believed in my ability to do it well. Watch a couple of episodes of Ted Lasso and just keep looking at that word believe over his office door. Remedy number two, celebrate successes. And I'm not just talking about your own, because you are the leader of a team, right? A team that includes the board volunteers. How about a monthly staff meeting agenda item exclusively for cheering each other on? Successes come in all different sizes and shapes and from all aspects of the organization. And in tough times, it is very easy to see the glass as half empty. But when successes are shared, they can never be followed by the word but. Right? Doubters and imposters can see this fantastic opportunity, but meet it with doubts. You might even talk yourself out of having success metrics that might illustrate impact. Stop. Celebrate success for what it is, full stop. And hear it around the table and take it in as belonging to all of you. That puts gas in your tank. And I actually believe the more gas you have in your tank, the less prone you are to imposter syndrome. Number three is one of my very favorite antidotes for many, many things. Reread your application cover letter. Might I remind you that you actually wanted this job and applied for it and you actually believed you were a first rate candidate. And in that cover letter you probably did a kick ass job of making the case for why you were the ideal candidate. I guarantee you that the contents will ring true. I believe that everybody should keep their application cover letter handy for all kinds of reasons. In this case, I'm suggesting it as an antidote for imposter syndrome, but it comes in handy on a very bad day as well. Number four, listen to the voices of others. So this has a couple of components to it. Every one of us has somebody that is a trusted advisor, could be a bff, could be a former colleague, a former board chair at another organization, a donor. All I want you to do is pick up the phone and say, you know, for some reason today you don't have to say every single day when I wake up, I feel like an imposter. You can just sort of narrow it down just so it doesn't seem like it's like some sort of an overwhelming thing, you know, today I kind of feel like an imposter. Can you say some of those really nice things? About me that I know you believe, and that make me feel really good. I think we all have people like that in our lives, and they're the kind of people that actually will also tell us the truth on the flip side as well. So call a trusted advisor, solicit honest feedback. So if you have imposter syndrome, you believe there's somebody out there who could be doing the job better, and they just, I don't know, they get lost or they can't find the parking garage or something, Right? Solicit some honest feedback and see if somebody else has some feedback for you that affirms that there are some things you need to work on or conversely, dampens the imposter syndrome. In an ideal world, that would be a board chair. A solid chair will offer you a pep talk, will also say, I mean, you and I have talked about this a million times, Joan. These are some of your growth areas. But overall, my goodness, we couldn't be luckier to have you. Right? Do you know the other day, Joan, what this board member X said about you? Really? I didn't know that that board member thought that way about me. That's really awesome. So it's not all pep talky, but it is a reminder from people who have different vantage points that you're the right person for the right job at the right time. So a trusted advisor, solicit honest feedback. Here's one that's actually a little hard for people, which is to embrace their annual review. This is one I have to tell you. I work with clients one on one, and I often help them with their annual reviews. And oftentimes it starts with a self evaluation that they have to write. And I always say, why don't you send it to me and I'll read it and I can offer you some thoughts about it. Oh, my goodness. People who have some variation or stage of imposter syndrome, their self evaluations are hilarious, actually. It is as if they have had amnesia about the remarkable things that transpired during the year. I generally find that if you have imposter syndrome, you focus on the things that. That didn't go so well. You sell yourself short. I've actually rewritten some self evaluations. Why is it that an executive director doesn't brag in their self evaluation? I think that's little imposter syndrome. And then the fourth one, and this is under this category of listening to the voices of others. Like, when you're doing that annual review, ask if there are particular skills that you should be working on. What Would move you from good to great if someone would say, on a scale of 1 to 10, you're like an 8 or a 9. Joan. Well, I want to be a 9 or a 10. What would have to be true for that to happen? Right. So take classes, find a coach, Find a quality leadership reading list. And then the fifth one under this listen to the voices of others is find and engage a community of leaders. I can't tell you how. Actually, the whole process of asking the folks in our private community at the leadership lab about imposter syndrome, there were hilarious comments that happened to me, too. The sort of you're not alone thing. Mm. It's a big remedy. A big remedy for imposter syndrome. So number five. So we've talked about, look in the mirror and repeat after me. Two is celebrate success. Three is reread your application cover letter. Number four is listen to the voices of others. Number five is decrease the loneliness of the work. Loneliness can drive imposter syndrome. You might be so busy trying to get the work done that you might not notice that there are so many others who feel exactly the same way. Right. This is what we see and the power of community at the nonprofit leadership lab that thousands of folks from around the world tell us that knowing they are not alone is such a gift. Knowing that, oh, I'm not the only one that has imposter syndrome. Wow. Oh, my gosh. You think that too? Before a board meeting. So helpful. And that leads me to my last point, which is to help others. You can be so close to your own struggles that the answers are not always clear to you. Amazingly, we can often see the challenges of others more clearly than we can see our own. When our members post challenges, fellow members often have the very, very best advice. And because we are bi DNA helpers, sometimes just having the opportunity to help somebody out affirms that you know something, right? That you're not really an imposter, that you deserved the job, that you're good at it, and the advice you have will be of value to others. You know, I would take a coaching client with imposter syndrome over one with an inflated sense of self every day of the week and twice on Sunday because there's a certain amount of self awareness that lives in imposter syndrome. There's a certain amount of authenticity, appetite to be really good at the work. And I happen to find imposter syndrome sort of endearing. I mean, I don't know that Jason found it endearing at the Kodak Theater when my mouth was hanging open. I didn't find it endearing. I felt like an idiot. But seeing the Tin man weep, seeing the scarecrow solve a complex problem, or the cowardly lion demonstrating his bravery. Oh my goodness. When people lean into who they really are and what they're really good at, it's beautiful. So do me a favor. Remember, you applied for this job. A vast number of people thought you were just the right person. And by the way, so did you. So when you see those thought balloons or you can feel them, look back in the mirror and say, I've got this. Know that you've got what it takes. Identify where your GAP skills are, focus on those, and be the leader. You know you can be the leader people need you to be, especially in these times. You're not an imposter and you don't have a syndrome. You just have a lot on your plate. And sometimes it just doesn't feel like you can do everything exactly the way you want to. That's hard. It's hard for type A personalities who are driven to succeed. Cut yourself a little slack. Talk to someone who knows you well and stay balanced and centered. Because as we go through this year, it isn't going to get easier. And we're going to need people who understand themselves, are self aware and authentic, passionate and determined. And I think I'm talking to you. Take good care of yourself. I'll see you next time.
- [26:09]
Podcast Host
Thank you for spending time with us today. We hope this conversation provides valuable insights as you navigate the messy but meaningful world of nonprofits. A Special thanks to DonorPerfect for sponsoring this episode and for their dedication to empowering nonprofits like yours to do more good. For more resources to support your work, visit joengary.com podcast. We think you'll find a lot of helpful things there. Most importantly, thank you for all you do to make the world a better place. One small or large step at a time. Talk to your all next time.