← Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership | Fundraising | Board Development | Communications
Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership | Fundraising | Board Development | Communications
Ep 237: The AI Field Guide: A Playbook for Nonprofit Success with Darian Rodriguez Heyman and Cheryl Contee
00:51:01
AI can feel overwhelming until you make it practical. Darian Rodriguez Heyman and Cheryle Contee join me to discuss their new tactical field guide, AI for Nonprofits. Discover how your organization can adopt AI responsibly and free your staff to do mor...
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- [00:00]
A
So I often say that nonprofit leaders who are in the business of changing the world have this tendency to be change resistant. Maybe it's a need for something in their lives to remain steady. Maybe it's risk averse boards. Those are two hypotheses. You can add your own, but AI presents exponential change. It feels really big, really turbulent and complex. But make no mistake, it is and will continue to be a game changer in its ability to process massive amounts of data in real time and its capacity to transform that data into decision making, predictions and insights of scale. For me, the game changer is in freeing nonprofit staff up to become more visible and vocal champions for their cause. We need them to be that through the building of deep relationships that are essential to create a large, engaged and fully invested ecosystem of ambassadors. But where to start? I'm going to suggest that you start with the purchase of a new book that is a little bit of a one stop shop. Editors and guests today, Darian Rodriguez Heyman and Cheryl Conti sought out the best and the brightest, offering insights and practical advice from different and diverse perspectives. If you've ever said I just really need to know so much more about AI and I'm not sure where to turn, well, I have your answer. Today we'll chat with the editors who will help you imagine what is possible. And in a world feeling more than just a little bit dark, that feels like a pretty great exercise.
- [01:38]
B
Welcome to Nonprofits are Messy with Joan Gary and Experts. This podcast is your go to space for insights, advice and inspiration designed to help nonprofit leaders open, overcome challenges and drive impact. Whether you're navigating small beginnings or leading a larger organization, we're here to support you every step of the way. Together with Joan and a diverse group of expert guests, we tackle the big questions nonprofit leaders face and offer actionable advice to fuel your leadership journey. A special thank you to join for sponsoring this episode and supporting nonprofits that we love. Now let's jump in.
- [02:31]
A
Darian is an accomplished author, fundraising and philanthropy consultant. He is the best selling author of Nonprofit Management 101, which is sitting on my bookshelf and ought to be sitting on yours. He is the former Executive Director of the Craigslist foundation and a sought after keynote speaker at social impact events around the world. He can be reached directly via his website, helpingpeoplehelp.com Cheryl Conti is a pioneering technology entrepreneur and digital transformation expert. She is the best selling author of Mechanical how you can achieve Startup Success. She is a trailblazing startup founder, a and A trusted advisor on digital innovation and social impact, she inspires audiences globally as a leading voice on inclusive entrepreneurship and social enterprise. You can find her at AI the number four. Npaifornonprofits.org first of all, welcome to you both. Thank you for bringing this all together in a single volume to read, to reference, and to help leaders maximize living. As you wrote, on the jagged frontier of this technology. Welcome, Cheryl. Welcome, Darian.
- [03:46]
C
Thanks for having us.
- [03:48]
D
Thank you so much.
- [03:50]
A
So there are lots of different books out there on AI, right? I mean, if I Google it, if I go to Amazon, I see quite a number of them. Why did you dedicate your efforts to write another one? Tell me about the origin story of the book and of your collaboration. And maybe I actually would start with Darian here and then have Cheryl chime in.
- [04:11]
D
Yeah, sure. You know, I think especially at the time when Cheryl and I decided to write this book, there had been a couple books out there from Beth Kantor and Afo Bruce, both of whom contributed to this project. But they all came out before ChatGPT in November of 2023. And so they were largely more focused on some of the philosophical issues. You know, are the robots coming to take our job? How do we remain human centered in an AI driven world? And what we saw was that after the release of ChatGPT 3.5, there was a sea change and people just sort of recognized like, okay, this isn't up for debate anymore. This is coming, it's here. And, you know, we need to start thinking about how can we responsibly use AI as a tool to support our work with fundraising, with marketing, with programs, and with back office. And that Tactical Practical Tips and tools book hadn't been written yet. And so we were really excited to work on that. I think since then, Nathan Chappelle wrote a book who's also part of our book project. And that's kind of coming from more one voice. Whereas we interviewed 57 different people, as you mentioned, and really talked to all the different experts to get lots of different perspectives on the tactical and practical side of AI adoption.
- [05:27]
A
Awesome. Cheryl, what might you add there?
- [05:29]
C
You know, I was at the Nonprofit Management Institute at Stanford University. I'd gotten an invitation and I saw that Darian was speaking. I was like, oh, it'll be really fun to catch up with Darian post Covid. You know, we did have that chance. And he mentioned, hey, you know, I'm going to be, you know, writing this book. I had probably mentioned Star Trek or Battlestar Galactica in The sentence before he said this because it's like, hey, do you want to work on this book? Book, AI for nonprofits with me? Nerd, super nerd. And I was, I said yes, you know, obviously, you know, I saw, I see AI as a great opportunity for organizations and their leaders to go to the next level, you know, of what you can do. I mean, AI, it's like having a super smart intern, right? You know, there's almost nothing they can't do. You know, they can work 24 7, they don't need a coffee break, but they need supervision. You need to have that human in the loop, right? And so, you know, we see the entire book as you nonprofit leader, executive director, you know, CEO, board member, you know, you are that human in the loop. And you know, and this book isn't meant to be read as a, you know, cover to cover. It's really meant to be a field guide, right? Like a playbook. And you scan, scan, right, scan the table of contents, you know, zero in on the, you know, what are the tasks that my team are struggling with that are repetitive, they're time consuming, they're expensive, they're tedious. How do we use AI and bring that into our workflow such that we can remove all of those things and bring back, as Darian said, the human connection and the human in the loop.
- [07:14]
A
So I love the idea of a field guide. And honestly, when I heard that, Darian, when the book was on pre order, I went to Amazon and looked at the table of contents and I thought, wow, this covers such a diversity of issues that nonprofit leaders face. And you can, you know, just like Matt, honestly, just like your first book, Darian, and I could pitch that one. Cause I think I have a chapter in it, but is you can pick and choose. It's there for the particular topic you need. So I'm totally about that. And Cheryl, what would you say is. So you could have picked 50 authors, you could have picked 60 authors. There's so many people out there that have so much thoughtful insight to add here. Do you see any kind of a thread that pulls the work of the writers all together?
- [08:11]
C
Absolutely. And of course, there are so many people. The book is already gigantic. So if you get it physically, it's big. We had to narrow in. But yes, there are a lot of amazing voices. But I think the thread that ties all of these voices together is that AI isn't just about technology. Ultimately, it's about people. And every contributor in our book, every expert, whether they're talking about strategy, or fundraising or legal affairs or ethics. They all center back to the concept that AI should free us to do more of what matters most to us. Most of us are in this right to advance society, to make the world a better place, or at least a slightly less terrible place. You're in this to serve your community. You're in this to serve your community. Right? You. You want to build trust with those, you know, who you're trying to benefit. You know, that's what AI should free us to do more of. And that's the heartbeat of this book. And every chapter and every contributor feels that same way.
- [09:20]
D
And if I can jump in real quick, because I think there's.
- [09:24]
A
And by the way, show them how big this book is, would you?
- [09:31]
D
That's our baby.
- [09:32]
C
So the size, it's not small, but.
- [09:35]
D
That'S because it's chock full of resources and really helpful tactics. And I think Cheryl really talked about some of the strategic and the philosophical throughputs that are in basically every part of the book. On the tactical side, what's really interesting is that there was also a kind of a common denominator. And whether you're looking to deploy AI for fundraising or to evaluate and enhance your programs or whatever the use case may be. And that's sort of all the different chapters in the book, almost every single chapter spoke to the need on a tactical level to actually write down some kind of policy or just take a moment to reflect on your goals, reflect on the. The guardrails that are necessary, reflect on the data that needs to stay secure, and put down some thoughts on paper about what is acceptable and what's not and why. And that iterative and dynamic process is really at the heart of responsible AI adoption, is taking the time to invite intentionality into the process, just like we do with our board meetings. When those go really well, it's because we take the time to structure an agenda and make the best use of everyone's time. And AI has that same ability.
- [10:45]
A
Well, I think there are a lot of nonprofit leaders that would like to see board meetings go really well, would like to see their organization be one in which people are doing the work that is the best and highest use of them. Right. And I think that's part of what I see as the promise of in the work of nonprofits. Darian, when you and I spoke, we talked about some themes and some trends, and you used some cowboy metaphors. The Wild West, I think, came up. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
- [11:17]
D
Yeah, I mean, I think the Reality is, people are a bit freaked out. We've had a lifetime. Cheryl and I aren't the only nerds out there. Like, we've all seen the Terminator. We've all seen a lot of these dystopian future.
- [11:31]
A
No, I have not seen the Terminator.
- [11:33]
D
All right, well, maybe we haven't all.
- [11:35]
A
I'm a different kind of nerd. I am a different kind of nerd. And maybe that's a topic for another podcast.
- [11:44]
D
We can do that in another podcast, no problem. But, yeah, what I would say is that we have had this vision of a dystopic future fed to us for the last several decades now. And it's, at the core, is sort of technology gone awry. And that is a legitimate concern, and that's why we need these guardrails. But the reality is, I think, in large part because it's so foreign, because people don't understand it and they have some fears. For the most part, what we're seeing across the nonprofit sector is the vast majority of organizations have their heads in the sand around AI adoption, and they have not really taken an organizational stance or strategy where they've really taken the time to reflect on what do we want to use this tool for? What are the redundant processes that we could streamline or automate? How can we expand our effectiveness and serve different audiences that speak different languages, whatever it might be? How do we enhance board development internally? All those different use cases. And instead of putting thought into that, everybody's just basically saying, oh, maybe this thing will go away or blow over. We're busy. We don't really have time to think about this. And the reality is, you know, if you do want to get serious, it's not that complicated. It is as simple as taking some time to write a policy and a strategy on paper, ideally, especially if you're dealing with sensitive data, to create a custom large language model or GPT. So you've got a little playpen, a sandbox, within which you can play, and you know that the data is secure. You know, most people don't realize if they put some donor Data into a ChatGPT prompt that is becoming part of the training data for the next generation. And we can't have that if we're dealing with HIPAA records or donor records or whatever sensitive data it may be. It has to stay secure. And that's not that complicated. But that's what happens if you don't have a policy and you're not thoughtful about this stuff.
- [13:38]
A
I might have been at that same if not the following year, Stanford conference, and Beth Kanter was doing a workshop. I've known her for years. It was the first time we ever actually met irl, which was fabulous. And I think about folks like Beth Kantor and Amy Sample Ward, and I wonder, Cheryl, if you could talk a little bit to maybe their contributions in this book. And what I've really learned from Beth is about the ethics of AI and sort of how you peel all the layers of that onion. So I'd love to hear what you learned in working with all these different people about the ethics of AI, because that's a whole ball of wax.
- [14:26]
C
Yeah, we really put a lot of focus on that in AI for nonprofits, because in talking to nonprofit leaders, philanthropic executives, et cetera, we heard a lot about that. Right. That. That was a big concern. Beth Kantor is an old friend of both Darian's and mine. We were thrilled that she agreed. She's been a leader, obviously, as Darian mentioned, in the field of the smart nonprofit. How do you start to think about AI adoption? And in our book, Beth really zeroes in on AI has to balance opportunity with care. Right. So it can save time. Sure, that's great, but not at the cost of privacy or bias. We should expect and do better than that. And then Amy Semple Ward of nten, she's amazing. Her team is great. I've always been a huge fan and supporter of that organization, along with Darian. You know, Amy's chapter really pushes us to ask, well, who benefits from AI and who gets left out? And at the end of the day, nonprofits are in that trust business. That's a big part, you know, of. Make Of. Of your brand. Right. Of your. Of your promise. Your contract, if you will. You know, if I can reference Rousseau and be all fancy like that.
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A
Yeah, fancy.
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C
You want people to. Yeah, you want to trust. People need to trust and have that, you know, that contract with that nonprofit that we're supporting. You either with our name, putting it on a petition, you know, we're showing up in person at a protest. Right. We are giving you our money, you know, so ethical AI is not optional for nonprofits. It's how we protect and treasure that trust while embracing innovation, you know, with your donors and supporters.
- [16:14]
A
Darian, anything you want to add to that?
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D
I just want to plug in 10 for the contract we signed with them because they came on board as our fiscal sponsor for the AI for Nonprofits digital learning hub that you mentioned before@aiformp.org as well as the national Learning Lab series. We're doing about a dozen different conferences in major cities all around the US and that's all happening under Intend's nonprofit banner.
- [16:37]
A
Fantastic. You know, it's interesting, this whole idea of intentionality and actually stopping and saying, what do I need to know to traverse these turbulent shark infested waters that now seem to have pirates in them. It's anathema to nonprofit leaders to stop. Right? And I feel like if you're listening to this podcast right now, you stopped, right? You stopped. And I just want to say thank you for that. But I want you to see this as an appetizer, right? I want you to see it as an appetizer and say, wow, that's interesting. I could buy that book. And even if I only read Amy Sample Ward's piece, the Hebrew word would be dayenu. That would be enough, right? But this is the best and the brightest, the cream of the crop who have been assembled for you, right? And I've really been thinking a lot about this lately that there is such a huge posse of people like you, Darian and Cheryl Beth and Amy Sample, Ward and Allison fine and the 50 plus other people that have contributed to this book. Why have they done that? They've done that because they actually really give a shit about making sure that you as listeners are successful, that you don't burn out, that you spend your time doing the right things that fuel you, fuel the impact of your work, build sustainability for your organization and keep your job satisfaction high and retain you as great leaders. That's what this work is all about. Sometimes it's just worth stopping and remembering how many people are on your team with you. So I put my little soapbox away. So we've talked about it. AI for Nonprofits, edited by Darian and Cheryl. Easily found on Amazon or wherever you find your great nonprofit books. It's a compendium, a field guide, terrific writing, terrific experts, and if I can steal a phrase that I don't use often, a big, beautiful book. Now imagine I'm a very busy nonprofit leader, okay? How would the two of you suggest I use this book to its best advantage? So when I wrote my book, I'm not plugging my book, but I pictured a brand new executive director picking it up and saying, oh my gosh, this is exactly what I need to get the lay of the land for this new gig. And I wrote it because I wrote the book I wish someone had handed to me. Give us some thoughts about how a leader, a board, a staff could use your Asset to begin to syndicate the power of AI into their organization in a way that feels relatively reasonable is not too heavy a lift. Darian, why don't you go first?
- [19:53]
D
Yeah, I mean, I think, Joan, you're speaking directly to, like, my formula, because this book is just like the last two books in terms of the format where I, you know, we interviewed, in this case, 57 experts across all these different topics, and we created a consistent framework and chapter structure to really unearth and highlight the most salient and actionable tips. So, you know, the term you kept using is field guide, and that's exactly what it's intended to be. It's an owner's manual. And just like the last books covered all aspects of nonprofit management and nonprofit fundraising, this one covers all aspects of AI for nonprofits. And the idea is, you know, certainly you could read it cover to cover, and there is a logical progression. But to Sheryl's point earlier, it really is, you know, a reference manual. And so if you're looking to deploy AI powered fundraising and start to put it to work with your grant writing efforts or with your major donor cultivation efforts, there's chapters for that. If you're creating content to support marketing and social media and you want to use AI tools to analyze your social media presence and optimize it, there's chapters for that. And so, you know, the reality is you can read any of these chapters in about 20 or 30 minutes, just like the other books, each of which is backed by a resource review where you can dive deeper if you want to go, you know, more into that topic. And then there's a whole resource guide at the end with about 200 resources. And so, you know, the premise, I think, to your question, about how to really digest this, if an organization wanted to sort of, you know, tackle the whole elephant is, I think it's in bite sized pieces. To your point, we're all super busy. And one of the things that came up in multiple chapters is the importance of creating a culture of innovation within our nonprofits. And so that could look like a weekly or even just a monthly meeting where one person leads a discussion on one chapter and they spend 20 or 30 minutes reading it. And we can have a discussion with our peers about, hey, let's talk about CRM, let's talk about AI driven fundraising, let's talk about how to use this with our board. Here's some ideas that were shared in the chapter. Here's some thoughts that I have. What do you all think? And then ideally, we put a couple Thoughts on paper and we go from there. Right. So it's all about helping get people started with a critical but minimal amount of effort so that they can show up and then decide where to go from there and just get the journey started, which is so critical to every use case that's outlined in there.
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A
I want to hear from Cheryl, but I also just want to say it's sort of ironic that a book that has how many pages, Darian?
- [22:26]
D
I think it's about 600.
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A
600, 500. Yeah. Yeah. So a 600 page book can be used in bite sized pieces. I love that. Cheryl, my question goes to you as well. Sort of how does a leader, a board or a staff begin to use this book to get the conversation started and moving? Anything you'd add to what Darian said?
- [22:50]
C
Sure. Look, AI adoption doesn't have to be overwhelming. We're actually in a moment right now of plateau, in part because there's a concept called compute right where we're almost at the edge of what supercomputers, how fast they can go, how many we have. So this is actually a great time to take a breath and sort of get the lay of the land. And you want to start with your mission, right? Not the tech. Who are you and what's important to you? And look, start small, get those quick wins. Use AI to support people, not replace them. We know that that's a big fear among teams. One of the our chapters actually is called Selling AI upstream and downstream in your organization. And at first it was just upstream. We thought that like social media, you know, middle people in the middle or team members might have trouble, you know, selling it internally. And instead we heard from many nonprofit leaders who said, oh no, I'm down, I'm ready to rock. It's my team, you know, that is really worried because they don't want to lose their jobs. You know, a lot of team members also talk about, you know, ethics and environmental concerns. Of course you want an AI policy, you know, that puts guardrails around ethics and data. But you know, in terms of, you know, if you have some ethical issues with some of the companies that are leaders. Right. You know, there are lots of mission driven startups from our community, like Poster Child AI or Change Agent AI, which are both startups that I am, where I'm a senior advisor, you know, that are really focused on providing services and tech specifically for nonprofits like yours and share your same values and have built those values into their tools. And then on the environmental side, look, California, you know, where Darian and I live is now the largest economy in the world that is mostly clean energy. It's actually two thirds of our energy comes from clean sources. The Netherlands is now at 50%. You know, so, you know, the good news is that the, the cost and the power of clean energy is rapidly going. The cost is going down rapidly, the power is going up and accelerating. So, you know, I think that problem is a problem that's going to fix itself in the next few years. So, you know, again, just to, just to finish, you know, I would say, look, you know, I should create space for us to do the work that only human beings can do. Right? Everything else can be done with AI. So how do you lead this adoption process? With urgency. Right. You need to get there. Using AI is not an option. So how do you get there ethically? With empathy and with creativity.
- [25:39]
A
Love all of this. And so I am so down on this idea of a culture of innovation. And, you know, I thought we had it during the pandemic, what challenging times make possible. And I fear, and I've seen too many examples of us not being able to hang onto it in the way that I had hoped, that far too many, I think far too many risk adverse boards pushed organizations back to business as usual, which was not great, not everything it was cracked up to be to begin with, piloting innovation, trying things, building proof of concept. All of these things which I learned in the private sector when I was doing startup work there. It works. It really, really works. We're going to take a quick break, but when we come back, what I love about this book is, I think, to Darian's point, the practical nature of this, the actionable things that this book points you in the direction of doing. I loved what you said, Darian, about how to use a chapter. I was immediately thinking about, like development committees on boards that generally don't have a clear charge and they ask all kinds of questions, what are we doing about this? And what are we doing about that? And instead of being thought partners, they see themselves as overlords. Right. But what if you sent them a chapter from this book and it became what should we all together be doing as it relates to fundraising? So that there's buy in, more than buy in, but also a sense that you could get your board to become champions for this as well. So when we come back, I really want you all to focus on these critical guidelines that you established for AI adoption. I think it's an excellent place to put a nice bow on our conversation for today. Stay with us and we'll be right back. You don't want to miss the end of this because you're going to want to take notes and you're totally going to want to buy this book. Are you a staff or board member of a small to mid sized nonprofit? Now, you might feel alone, but trust me, you are not. I built the Nonprofit Leadership Lab for the millions who are just like you. You'll find time saving resources when your pants are on fire, opportunities to uplevel your skills, and a warm, nurturing private community of what we call superheroes. Thousands of board and staff leaders call the lab home and we'd love for you to join us. Learn more@nonprofitleadershiplab.com podcast we are here talking about a new book called AI for Nonprofits. It is a compendium, a field guide, an edited big fat book of 57 remarkable people who have come together. There it is. Darian has his books and it is what the moment calls for. As Darian said earlier in the conversation, other books were written and they were written before ChatGPT. So there was a gap. And nothing is better than a book that fills a clear gap. And this is what Darian and Cheryl have done here. So I loved your list of critical guidelines for AI adoption. And I wonder, Cheryl, if you wanted to share some of those. I think there's 10, like a David Letterman thing, but not everybody who listens will even get that. I get that. But anyway, why don't you take us through some of these critical guidelines so that people are really understanding what they have to think about and do as they're really beginning to adopt this.
- [29:32]
C
Absolutely. And yes, dating ourselves. Although Lederman had that Netflix show for those of you younger people, you may have seen him on the Netflix.
- [29:41]
A
Thanks for. So thanks for saving my behind there.
- [29:43]
C
Yeah, you're welcome. You're welcome, ma'. Am. So I've got top five, right? Just because, you know, we know you, nonprofit leader, are hella busy. So here's a hot top five. Number one look, as we just mentioned, mission first, tech second, don't just adopt AI because it's the new shiny, flashy thing. Adopt it because there are aspects of it that you can use that directly advance your mission. So asking yourself, how will this help us take things off our plate that we hate doing that are not the fun part? And how can we use these tools to help us serve more people, help us raise more funds, or help us deliver programs more effectively? Number two, start small and win big. Begin with just some quick, some Low risk experience experiments. An example might be, you know, using AI to draft emails, you know, that go out every day or every week. You know, use AI to help you with the first draft of your grant applications, etc. You know, and these early wins will help your team build confidence and create some momentum and it won't drain your budget. A lot of that kind of thing is actually you can use, you know, free or low cost tools. Number three, people over platforms. People are very freaked out about AI, potentially you losing your job. But we haven't necessarily seen a lot of people lose their jobs just yet for AI because really AI is at its best when it augments your team and doesn't replace them. Your team's wisdom, values and lived experiences are irreplaceable. So starting to frame within yourself and with your team AI as an assistant, that frees freeze up your team to focus on strategy and human connection. Number four, guardrails matter. You know, starting, you know, your team, they're already using AI. I can promise you that at least half your team is already quietly using AI to make their jobs easier. And they're waiting for leadership from you. They're waiting for leadership from, you know, their senior team. They're waiting for leadership from their board to know what is and isn't okay, you want this out of the shadows. So being able to establish ethical guidelines early, whether you're protecting data, reducing bias and being transparent and fair and ethical with your community, whether it's internally or your external stakeholders, nonprofits must remain trusted institutions. And you don't want to risk that trust by moving too fast and breaking things. To quote someone that, you know, people, you look it up, you can look it up. Number five, build for. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about. Build for the future, not just today. AI, of course, is evolving very quickly and will continue to do so. We'll probably going to see some spurts. As I mentioned, right now we're in a, just a little bit of a plateau moment that will change probably, you know, within the next year or two. So, you know, you want to choose tools that are flexible. You know, you want to invest in your, in training your staff and upskilling them continuously and cultivate a culture of innovation and curiosity. And that way your organization, you know, is poised to be ready for the opportunities of tomorrow, not just, you know, the annoying tasks of today. So, you know, I think there's a lot of opportunity out there and I hope that people will be, will be brave, but also responsible. Right, you know, right now is the time to take the bull by the horns. But Darian, what would you add?
- [33:31]
D
Yeah, I mean, I think just kind of connecting the dots on some of the things you said. And you touched on this at one point when you talked about bringing AI out of the shadows. And I think that's really at the core of what is so critical right now is for organizations to recognize that they have a role to play. This isn't just an individual pastime where people on your team are using the tool and figuring it out for themselves, because they are. It is incumbent upon us as mission led organizations where we are stewarding the public's trust, that we need to take a responsible approach here. And that means inviting intentionality. That means being strategic. And to Sheryl's point, that doesn't mean making a ginormous commitment and investing millions of dollars and our entire staff for years on end. That means just starting small. That means doing something. And so back to the example that Joan had talked about previously with board members asking what this might look like. You can ask AI, you can say, what should our committee be doing? Give me a possible draft charter for our development committee, for our new technical governance committee that we're starting. What should our mandate be? Give me one piece of paper with a mission statement and some bullet points and see what you get. And I think from my point of view, the two things that I've seen turn that light bulb on for the most people are, number one, not being afraid to speak directly to the fears and the concerns. Because I think what I see all too often in the AI for good community is we only talk about the positive stuff, and there's a lot of it. But we leave people behind when we don't directly address their concerns around data security or the robots taking jobs or whatever it might be, the environmental impacts. And so we do need to hold space for those, those concerns and address them effectively, which is actually not that hard. But at the same time, people need to see the tools. Right? One of the authors took our 600 page book, fed it to the robots, and in five minutes created an NPR quality podcast of the entire book in a nutshell. And the quality of these AI driven outputs is getting so much higher that it is really eye opening when you can see some of these outputs, some of these images, some of these videos. And so, you know, and in the case of what I was just talking about with that board example, what does it look like to get a draft of a charter for a committee, which is a best practice, I've been talking about for 20 years and now we've got that high powered intern like Cheryl mentioned that we can say give me what I want and within 10 seconds get a pretty good starting point. And that really seems to open people's eyes to the possibilities. And it directly supports this cointelligence idea of how do we work in partnership with this new tool and allow it to free up the people to do the things that only people can do.
- [36:28]
A
Right. It's really a both and isn't it? My wife has joined the fundraising committee for Lambda Legal, which is a LGBT legal advocacy organization. And she was writing an email to secure a meeting with some people she felt were the warm leads. Right. And there's no question AI could, could have written that email. She didn't have to ask me, I just happened to be an expert in the house. Right. But she could have. What she couldn't do, what AI couldn't do was read between the lines and interpret what the donors were saying when they responded. Right. So that if that donor responded, that prospective donor responded and said, we're going to make a gift. We're about to open a donor advised fund. Right. And I said to Eileen, if they're opening a donor advised fund, you're probably not thinking about asking them for a large enough gift. Right. So there's a nuance and a humanity that comes around interpreting that actually led Eileen to a very successful first time ask because of the combination of I could have spit out or my bot in the leadership lab could have spit out. Here's an example of an email to secure a meeting, but when you get the thing back, what do you do with it? And that's actually if I could spend more time thinking about the humanity of that response and then how to really think about what kind of conversation I want to have with that donor prospect. That's game changing for me because I can spend my time doing the thing that is most important.
- [38:16]
D
And actually I would take it to an even higher level because everything you just talked about is actually, it's right about to be possible like we are, I would guess, you know, a year to two away from being at a point where nonprofits will have sort of a concierge level service that says, hey Joan or Eileen, here are the five donors you need to follow up with this week. Here's a pre written email for each that has an ask amount in it. It asks about their wife, you know, and their, their kids. It ties in their personal connection and it focuses on the programs they want. All of the stuff that, you know, a junior to mid level to even senior level fundraiser might put together, that's all going to be on a silver platter for you. And so the things that you're going to add that only people can do is, number one, to your point, sprinkling that voice and that nuance and connecting the dots on top. But number two is the FaceTime is, you know, taking this email, using it to secure a meeting, and then sitting down with that donor, looking them in the eye, building that strong partnership, and talking to them with a level of passion that no robot can about the work, about the need, about the impact that they can make possible. And using all of that intel, just like I can provide you with a dossier before a board meeting or before a donor pitch, the robots can do that, but only you can build those relationships.
- [39:42]
A
Yep. And, boy, if we could get to a point where I didn't hear from people I was coaching, I'm just not sure why my development director is always at their desk behind their computer. Right. Why is that true? And how can AI make something different possible? I think it's very clear. I want to just give you both final thoughts or pieces of advice, and if one of you could go back to what I said at the very beginning. Yes, we have staff that is using AI. What does it take to be a good champion at the leadership level for change in this regard? Because I think that's quite essential. So final thoughts, and if one of you wants to grab that question, I think it would be really useful for our listeners, who largely are leading nonprofits, to say, okay, how should I be leading this change? Super.
- [40:40]
C
Look, AI isn't here to run our nonprofits for us. It's here to free us up to do more of what your nonprofit does best, which is putting the human back in humanity and leaving behind all the repetitive, time consuming, tedious, yucky work that you don't want to do do so that you can connect more human to human. And, you know, we wrote AI for nonprofits because we want every leader to feel confident and future ready. And this is a moment in which nonprofit leaders, you know, board members, you know, philanthropists, this is a moment when you can help shape the very tools and techniques that become standard. This is all a very fluid and dynamic, you know, innovation cycle. So, you know, by getting involved now, you know, you can actually help steer how this rolls out going forward and be a part of making this beneficial, as beneficial as possible for human beings.
- [41:43]
A
Darian, you get the last word here.
- [41:45]
D
Yeah. I would say, you know, when you hear the term GPT, never mind what it actually stands for, think of a general purpose technology. This is something like fire or electricity or the Internet can and should be deployed to help with almost anything. It not only unlocks efficiencies, it expands effectiveness and impact. And we are by definition in the nonprofit sector, mission led organizations. And so I would argue you are being irresponsible if you're not looking at how to responsibly leverage this tool. And that does not need to be daunting. It doesn't take a huge commitment. It just needs a little bit of strategy and intentionality and to bring it out of the shadows and have conversations and encourage people to play around with the tools and innovate and experiment and learn and share those lessons with one another so that as a community, as a team, we can come together and ask the most important question, which is how can this new tool better enable us to advance our mission? And that's why we're all here.
- [42:50]
A
You know, this is not the first time nor the last time we have been on a new technology rodeo, right? Like, I used to type, now I'm really gonna date myself. I used to make money in college by typing other people's papers on an IBM Selectric.
- [43:06]
C
Nice, right?
- [43:08]
A
You know, actually at that time it was very valuable to me. Yeah, my first job out of college, I had to. A guy went on vacation and he seemed to have a very important job and he had this big spreadsheet and it was essentially what would become an Excel spreadsheet. And the boss would come in and say, could you Change it to $0.25? A cable subscriber and this many subscribers. And that guy would take out his eraser, right? This was an mba. Mike went on to do great things. When Excel hit the market, Mike Sullivan was so ready to do something really important. I got a raise because I knew how to use Excel. So it was like a win win. But I think about all of these things that we now could never do without. And that's what's going to happen. But leadership in this space and reminding people that, right, that this is not, this is about people and not about technology, I think is gonna make all the difference. So now that I've completely dated myself, Cheryl wants the last word.
- [44:19]
C
Well, I've got two hot tips for folks, right? So one is, you know, look, chatbots respond well when you are nice to them. Treat your chatbot like it's another colleague. Talk to it that way. Because all of the Studies and research show that you'll actually get better outputs, believe it or not. And you'll, you'll find that your chatbot starts to mirror the way that you think, the way that you talk, because it's really trying to vibe with you. Again, this is science. And then finally there is a great website that everyone should check out if you want to get a sense of how fast is this moving, what is the breadth of this? It's literally the website is thereisanaiforthat.com it's such a fun website to just toodle around in and just see like all of the different ways that people are building little AI tools to help their productivity or have a little fun.
- [45:21]
A
Fantastic. The book, it is called AI for Nonprofits Putting Artificial Intelligence to work for your cause. There it is, edited by my guest today, Darian Rodriguez Heyman and Cheryl Conti. Talk just for one quick second. Darian, I'll let you lead on this. You are working and being not just to sell this book, but there's a mission in this for you as well, is to make sure that people have the tools they need to use this tool to its greatest and best advantage. You're doing some really cool things to really try to get the word out. Tell me about that. And also just where can we find you the book? And let's leave it there.
- [46:05]
D
Yeah, I would say the focus isn't even on trying to get the book out. The focus is really on trying to build nonprofit and foundation capacity in the social sector. And so what that looks like is sort of a three pronged approach, maybe four pronged. One is the book, and you already mentioned that. And folks can pick it up on Amazon and everywhere else. It's already been a great bestseller and we're really excited for the impact that that's making in the marketplace. But then we're building off of that. And under Intend's fiscal sponsorship, we've launched AI the number four NP.org just like AI for nonprofits. And what we're lifting up there is two things. One is we're building a comprehensive clearinghouse for all things AI for good. So all the books, the newsletters, the websites, the conferences, all those different resources will be under one roof. We're also launching a national event series, a series of learning labs that'll be one day conferences in major cities all over the US possibly even internationally over the next year. And we're going to be bringing these conferences to cities all over the country. You can find out more on the website at ai4np and we're also inviting people to get involved if they want to volunteer, if they want to help flesh out this resource and directory, or serve on the host committee, or speak at one of these events, or join us as an attendee. All that can be found at the website and you could also contact us directly. That would be the fourth leg of the stool is we're doing a lot of coaching and consulting in this arena. So I'm pulling together teams all the time to work with foundations, with nonprofits, with cohorts, to provide special, you know, unique trainings and all kinds of bespoke support. And all of that happens under my consultancy@helping peoplehelp.com where folks can reach out, they can request a free coaching session. And I'm just happy to speak to people, find out what their struggles and what their needs are and see how I can fulfill those. Working with Cheryl, working with other folks, and really just doing what we can to help nonprofits meet this moment. I think, you know, back to your earlier comment, you talked about how Covid really unleashed this huge burst and culture of innovation. And I think right now, as difficult as times may be and as, you know, unstable as things are with government funding and different things that directly affect a lot of nonprofits, we're also seeing a huge surge in innovation, in flexibility, and in resilience. Because that is what nonprofits do when the going gets tough, is we find new ways to serve our community. And that's what AI represents.
- [48:33]
A
I am delighted to have had this conversation with you. Every time I have a guest on my podcast, I am reminded of what an incredible cohort of people are out there. Let me be the first to tell you, writing a book, unless you wrote Gone Girl or something like that, it's not a money making adventure. It's a passion project. That's what my book was for me. It's what this book is for them. Have a look, find it, grab a chapter or two and start to think about what's that small thing I could do to test the waters, illustrate proof of concept, stave off some objections, and show myself to be a champion and evangelist for the future through AI. So, Darian and Cheryl, thank you so, so much for being here. Thanks for having us and best of luck with all of your stuff. And remember, it's AI the number 4 NP is where you're gonna find so much. And I really loved Cheryl. What was the fun website? I like fun.
- [49:45]
C
Yeah, there is an AI for that dot com.
- [49:48]
A
Yeah, I'm gonna turn this recording off. I'm going there right now. Thank you both. For all of you who are listening, thank you for the intentionality it took to make time to listen. And now let's give it a go, shall we? See you next time.
- [50:09]
B
Thank you for spending time with us today. We hope this conversation provides valuable insights as you navigate the messy but meaningful world of nonprofits. A Special thanks to DonorPerfect for sponsoring this episode and for their dedication to empowering nonprofits like yours to do more good. For more resources to support your work, visit joengarry.com podcast. We think you'll find a lot of helpful things there. Most importantly, thank you for all you do to make the world a better place, one small or large step at a time. Talk to you all next time.