Nonprofits Are Messy — Ep 244: The Board Chair–CEO Blueprint: What Every Nonprofit Can Learn from Girl Scouts USA

Date: January 3, 2026
Host: Glenda Testone (with Joan Garry)
Guests: Bonnie Bartczykowski (CEO, Girl Scouts USA), Naran Khan (Board President, Girl Scouts USA)

Overview

This episode centers on the transformational power of an effective Board Chair–CEO partnership in nonprofit organizations. Drawing on the experiences of Girl Scouts USA, CEO Bonnie Bartczykowski and Board President Naran Khan share their blueprint for building a strong, intentional, and high-functioning relationship—one that energizes the entire organization. The discussion tackles practical strategies for collaboration, candid advice for navigating challenges, and concrete steps for institutionalizing healthy governance, making it a must-listen (and must-read!) for nonprofit leaders and boards everywhere.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance of the Board Chair–CEO Relationship

• The “Magic” of Partnership:
  Glenda Testone: “When this relationship is working well, it is magic. And it can be like a turbocharger for your organization. And when it's not working well, it can take all of that energy and suck it right out of both of you, your organization, and your mission.” [00:24]
• This partnership is foundational but not widely or deeply discussed in actionable terms.

2. Their Unique Paths to Leadership and Perspective

• Bonnie’s Journey: Combined experience in both council governance and operations at a local and national level; this blend brings both strategic and practical insight. [03:27]
• Naran’s Background: From a Girl Scout herself to work at the Ford Foundation, with experience both as a funder and a nonprofit insider. Saw firsthand how boards either empower or derail an organization. [04:06]
• Mutual Understanding: Both have sat in "each other's seats" in some way, which helps build empathy and shared vision.

3. Forming the Partnership: Intentional Beginnings

• No Preexisting Relationship Required:
  Naran Khan: “You don't need to be best friends beforehand. In fact, we have this incredible working partnership because we got to know each other through work...I also said yes to a partnership like this.” [06:13]
• Pre-Start Meeting & Retreat:
  • Met intentionally before roles began to align on vision/goals.
  • Held a deep-dive orientation retreat with consultant Lucy Mayo.
  • Used exercises like a “how we work” questionnaire, with answers used as a springboard for facilitated discussion. [07:45–09:08]

4. Practical Tools & Routines for Partnership Success

• Weekly Standing Meeting:
  • 45 minutes every week, always with a pre-shared agenda & action items.
    Bonnie Bartczykowski: “I share [the agenda] in advance...when we leave a conversation, there's not any wondering what comes next.” [12:12]
• Shared Priorities and Openness:
  • Meetings are a “number one energy booster.”
    Naran Khan: “I feel affirmed and I feel like we have a plan...having that space where we can solve the problems, live and get moving is very energizing.” [13:20]
  • Emphasis on cascading shared priorities into the broader organization.

5. The “Secret Sauce”: Psychological Safety, Debriefs & Learning

• Creating Space for Honest Conversation:
  • Meetings are not just operational—they allow for debriefs, reflecting on dynamics, and sharing observations from unique perspectives.
    Naran Khan: “For Bonnie...those roles are very lonely...it's really important to establish a space where [the CEO] can share reflections on something without feeling like something needs to be solved immediately...a sense of psychological safety.” [15:41]
• Mutual Respect in Disagreement:
  • Always center disagreements around the mission: “putting our Girl Scouts at the center of every decision.” [17:00, Bonnie]
  • Use outside perspectives and, at impasse, include others (e.g., executive committee) or external experts as sounding boards. [18:07]
  • Avoid rushing tough conversations; allow adequate (sometimes additional) time to work through issues deeply.

6. Navigating Conflict & Role Clarity

• Healthy Disagreement = Good Partnership:
  • “If you agree on everything, it's probably not even a good partnership.” [19:56, Naran]
  • Focus on roles: Board as governance, CEO/staff as management/operations.
  • Be explicit about division of labor during strategic conversations: “What’s the board’s role in going here? Who’s going to raise their hand to have XYZ role?” [22:44]
• Clarity for All:
  • Board chair leads the board, champions CEO’s relationships with all board members, and is responsible for modeling how to show up with respect.
  • Establish and communicate norms about how board members interact with staff to avoid confusion or mixed messages.

7. Extending the Partnership Organization-Wide

• Board & Staff Relationships:
  • Executive team regularly attend board meetings—not just filtered updates—to foster direct relationship and empathy. [28:38, Bonnie]
  • Early retreat activities (“World Cafe”) built strong initial connections.
  • Norms/protocols about board–staff communication are codified and respected.
  • Executive sessions are built into every board meeting, not ad hoc—a space for alignment and feedback, not just problems. [29:35, Naran]

8. Institutionalizing What Works: Intentionality Beyond Individuals

• Sustainability:
  Bonnie Bartczykowski: “I can't assume that [our way of working] gets carried into...the next partnership...The intentionality...is so critical.” [32:25]
• Nominating Committees:
  • Vital role in not just selecting new board members but actively maintaining the culture, norms, and infrastructure that support great partnerships. [33:00–34:25, Naran]
  • Board composition should support where the organization is headed—skills-based, not just personal connections.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Insights

• On Intentional Partnership:
  “I was saying yes to the board, but I was also saying yes to this partnership with Bonnie.” — Naran Khan [06:13]
• On Debriefing:
  “When we debrief, it's not about me getting off my chest what I saw, but...‘Wow, she saw that, I didn't notice that.’” — Naran Khan [07:45]
• On Role Clarity:
  “I do think it's very important to get concrete about what good governance looks like for board members...to not shy away from having those difficult conversations.” — Naran Khan [22:44]
• On Psychological Safety:
  “I can have a very candid conversation with Naran on something that might be a big nugget...talk through what part does governance play in this, what part does operation play in this.” — Bonnie Bartczykowski [24:14]
• On Board Intentions:
  “We can't weaponize our good intentions.” — Naran Khan [26:13]
• On Sustainability:
  “The intentionality of everything we've done to carry that into that next partnership at some point is so critical...that other individual is going to be different.” — Bonnie Bartczykowski [32:25]
• On Board Recruitment:
  “Nominating committees...have a very important role in assessing and understanding the governance talent it will take to move an organization forward.” — Naran Khan [33:00]
• On Modeling for the Movement:
  “We have a real responsibility at the board and management level nationally to embody the things that we teach all of our members.” — Naran Khan [27:26]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–03:27: Introductions, backgrounds, and why the partnership matters
• 05:42–07:45: How Bonnie and Naran built their partnership from day one
• 09:03–09:39: Foundational exercises and using an outside facilitator
• 12:12–14:48: The nuts and bolts of their weekly meetings and meeting culture
• 15:41–17:21: Psychological safety and the value of honest, non-rushed conversations
• 18:07–20:40: Inviting outside perspectives and learning through difference
• 21:52–24:09: Role clarity and avoiding blurred lines between board governance and operations
• 28:38–31:54: Bridging board/staff understanding, communication, and relationships
• 32:25–34:44: Institutionalizing the partnership and nominating committee’s strategic role

Takeaways for Nonprofit Leaders

• Intentional design and maintenance of CEO/Board Chair partnerships are vital.
• Weekly, agenda-driven meetings with space for strategic and candid conversation foster trust and action.
• Psychological safety and role clarity build strong, resilient partnerships and protect against conflict escalation.
• Extend healthy dynamic organization-wide through norms, direct experience, and transparent communication.
• The organizational partnership should outlast individuals—invest in sustaining infrastructure and processes.
• Nominating committees are strategic anchors, not afterthoughts; board culture is everyone’s responsibility.

This summary captures the spirit, detailed insights, and actionable wisdom shared in the episode—an essential reference for nonprofit board and executive leaders seeking to unlock the full potential of their partnerships.