Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership

Ep 246: If You Believe Leadership Matters, Prove It!

Host: Joan Garry
Release Date: January 31, 2026

Overview

In this impassioned episode, Joan Garry confronts the perennial problem of nonprofit leadership burnout and challenges the sector to match its rhetoric about “leadership matters” with real, actionable investment in its leaders. Drawing upon personal experience, sector anecdotes, and a standout story about Dr. Nastasia Harris’s leadership journey, Joan argues for a cultural and structural shift — one in which boards, funders, and the sector at large prioritize, fund, and normalize leadership development.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Burnout and Leadership Turnover in Nonprofits

• Burnout epidemic: Joan voices deep frustration at how often leaders leave nonprofits prematurely (average tenure ~6 years, often less) and how the sector tends to blame leaders rather than systemic factors.
• Unrealistic expectations: Search committees seek a “messiah” who can do it all, often without understanding the true demands of the role.
• Turbulent environment: Today’s nonprofit landscape requires leaders not just to weather an occasional storm but to “embrace the turbulence” (00:40). There is no “vaccine” or return to normalcy on the horizon.

Quote:

• “The object of the work for a leader is not to manage through turbulence in the hopes of calm seas, but to just embrace the turbulence…” — Joan Garry (01:17)

2. The Case Study: Dr. Nastasia Harris

• Background: Dr. Harris, founder of the Perinatal Health Equity Initiative, exemplifies the value of ongoing leadership development.
• Learning journey: She sought diverse sources: podcasts, group coaching with a peer founder, Joan’s leadership lab, books, and more.
• Results: Her commitment led to her successfully securing a $100K Impact 100 grant — after a previous unsuccessful application. Her board supported her learning, allocating funds explicitly for development.

Quote:

• “Her seven year old organization is growing because she’s growing—because she sought grants for leadership development, because her board saw the value in her learning journey and included funds in the budget…” — Joan Garry (05:23)

3. The Real Barrier: Value, Not Just Time or Money

• Common refrain: People claim lack of time and money stifle leadership development, but Dr. Harris’s story undermines that excuse.
• Boards: Rarely initiate or support budget spend on leadership development; don’t see it as an investment.
• Leaders: Many are hesitant to advocate for themselves, worry it’ll be cut, or prioritize other expenses.
• The Sector: Considers leadership development “overhead”—a dirty word in nonprofit finance—so it’s often a nonstarter.

Memorable Analogy:

• “If I can invest, let’s say $1,000, and make the time… and I can secure a $100,000 grant, that’s an ROI I would take all day, every day.” — Joan Garry (10:20)

4. Five Strategies to Change the Narrative

(Segment begins at 13:21)

1. Share the Podcast, Start a Board Conversation

• Bring the board into the leadership development conversation. Let them share their own experiences and advocate budgeting for professional growth.
• Quote: “Set some time on the board meeting agenda to talk about it… You deserve less. I don’t think so.” — Joan Garry (13:54)

2. One-on-One Coaching

• The stigma is fading, but not fast enough. Even superstars (like Roger Federer) need coaches. More boards and search committees should see its value.

3. A ‘Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval’ for Leadership Development

• Make budgeted leadership development a criterion for top nonprofit ratings (e.g., Candid, Charity Navigator).
• “No top notch rating without it. Leadership development should be a critical criterion for your organization getting an A.” — Joan Garry (15:44)

4. Funder Commitment and ‘Round Up’ Donations

• Funders and individual donors can add a designated amount for leadership development, creating visibility and impact stories around these investments.

5. Accountability in Performance Reviews

• Make leadership development a goal and part of the executive/performance review for EDs and boards. Show measurable results (improved grants, public speaking, team development) and embed continuous learning in organizational culture.

5. The Most Crucial Strategy: Self-Advocacy

• Joan urges leaders to follow Dr. Harris’s example and advocate for their own development, recognizing their worth and the sector’s need for resilient, constantly learning leaders.

Quote:

• “You have to value continued growth and development. You have to value being in community with other leaders. Take a lesson from Dr. Harris’s playbook. Be an advocate for yourself. You need this and you are worth it.” — Joan Garry (18:31)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We don't live in a what if world when it comes to crises. We live in a world in which the waters are always turbulent and sometimes there are sharks, sometimes even pirates.” (00:55)
• “Our boards don’t value leadership development... Can you imagine if during the budget process your chair or your treasurer initiated a conversation that money be allocated for a coach?” (11:37)
• “Any kind of leadership development expense falls under, yes, you guessed it, overhead. And that makes an expense of this nature often a total nonstarter.” (12:38)
• “If they need a coach, they're not rock stars. Right? I just have two words for people who have this Mindset. Roger Federer.” (15:07)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–02:21: Joan’s introduction: Framing the problem of burnout and unrealistic leadership expectations.
• 03:14–09:31: Story of Dr. Nastasia Harris: Her path to leadership, investment in her own learning, success with a major grant.
• 09:31–13:20: Barriers to leadership development — why “time” and “money” aren’t the real reasons; sector-wide undervaluing of leadership.
• 13:21–18:20: Five strategies to change the narrative, actionable solutions for boards, leaders, funders, and the sector.
• 18:21–19:28: Final call to leaders: Self-advocacy and valuing development.

Final Takeaway

Joan Garry delivers a powerful argument: nonprofit leaders’ resilience and impact depend on prioritized, systemic investment in their growth. This responsibility doesn’t just rest with leaders—it’s a challenge for boards, funders, and the entire sector. “If you believe leadership matters, prove it.”

For more resources, visit Joan Garry’s Nonprofit Leadership Lab and joangarry.com