Ep 247: A Volunteer’s Guide to Major Donor Conversations with Eileen Opatut

Summary

Podcast Summary: "A Volunteer’s Guide to Major Donor Conversations"

Nonprofits Are Messy with Joan Garry | Ep 247
Guest: Eileen Opatut | February 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this insightful and candid episode, Joan Garry invites her wife, Eileen Opatut, Emmy Award-winning television executive and volunteer fundraiser, to discuss in detail her journey into major donor fundraising for Lambda Legal’s National Leadership Council. The episode centers on demystifying how non-development professionals—especially volunteers—can successfully engage in high-stakes, relationship-based fundraising. Through real stories, practical advice, and honest reflections, Joan and Eileen dismantle the fears and misconceptions tied to "the ask," offering listeners an authentic, step-by-step guide for initiating, conducting, and growing major donor conversations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Why” of Volunteering and Fundraising

Timestamp: 03:55–06:31

• Eileen shares her motivation: personal commitment to Lambda Legal after the organization's earlier support for her own family, combined with her drive to not stand idly by as LGBTQ rights are threatened.
• Fundraising felt necessary: “I couldn't overcome my fear of what would happen if I didn't raise the money.” (Eileen, 04:05)
• For non-attorneys, fundraising is the main volunteering path at Lambda.

2. Preparation Without a Handbook

Timestamp: 06:45–09:24

• Eileen received no official training; she self-educated by researching Lambda Legal, current events, and nonprofit fundraising basics.
• She felt insecurity about answering detailed questions, but Joan advised: "You know what? I don't know the answer to that question, but I will check into it and get back to you." (Eileen, 08:56)
• Emphasis on being “ridiculously prepared” is common, but humility and honesty go further.

3. Building a Prospect List: Beyond the Usual Suspects

Timestamp: 09:58–14:53

• Eileen describes herself as solitary, not a natural networker, lacking a vast contact list.
• Her approach: List people with “skin in the game,” such as those with LGBTQ family, friends, or personal connections—even discovering leads through candid conversations.
• Memorable insight: “You have to talk about it. ... someone says, so what's new, Eileen? I'll...always say, well, you know, what's really keeping me busy lately is I'm raising money for Lambda, and here's why.” (Eileen, 12:12)
• Tips on leveraging social introductions to expand warm leads.

4. Making the Ask: The Art of Emailing and First Conversations

Timestamp: 16:25–19:57

• Eileen personalized her outreach, referencing shared contacts and organizational leadership.
• Joan's advice: “Just say you want to talk. Don't say, I am calling you because I want to...open up your checkbook.” (Joan, 16:31)
• Importance of positioning: Sharing how Joan and Eileen think about their own giving models donor behavior without making it about the money first.
• Some prospects were newer to giving, thus required nurturing, explanation, and hands-on engagement.

5. Determining How Much to Ask For (and Multi-year Gifts)

Timestamp: 22:33–25:12

• Together, they strategized specific ask amounts. Eileen’s first ask (“they said, oh, sure, great”) felt both validating and like maybe she “should have asked for more.” (Eileen, 22:33)
• Advocated for multi-year commitments: “Lamda really needed to be able to count on a certain amount of money coming in so that they could replace the pro bono legal services that they had started being denied.” (Eileen, 24:03)
• Multi-year gifts benefit both donor and organization and create “ego points” for donors, making them feel impactful.

6. Handling Rejection, Crickets, and Emotional Pitfalls

Timestamp: 32:16–36:53

• Eileen grapples with “crickets” (non-responses), feeling “surprised” and “a little bit” personally hurt.
• Joan’s perspective: “Do you think everything is about that email for that person?... They're just lapsed because they have lives.” (Joan, 33:41)
• Fundraisers must separate friendship from transactions, embrace rejection as rarely personal, and remain persistent without pestering.
• “I'm giving them an opportunity to get involved in something they care about—or they should care about.” (Eileen, 36:10)

7. Listening, Learning, and The Follow-Up

Timestamp: 38:39–41:27

• Eileen learns not all thoughtful, affluent people have a “giving plan”—so offering options and frameworks can be a key value-add.
• The hesitation moment: Giving the number and waiting for a response. Joan’s script for follow-up: “I'd like you to give me some permission to follow up with you. If I don't hear from you, what would you suggest?”

8. Preparing for a Tough Ask: Meeting with Seasoned Fundraisers

Timestamp: 41:48–44:32

• Eileen prepares differently for a Zoom with a top prospect—including both an attorney and an experienced fundraiser.
• New tactic: Offer to provide information in advance, but ask what the donor wants to see, empowering their engagement and not assuming needs.

9. Top Lessons and Final Advice for New Volunteer Fundraisers

Timestamp: 45:04–50:33

• Key takeaway: “If I can do it, so can anyone. ... It took a long time for me. I hesitated. ... But once you start, the connective tissue is all there, and one thing leads to another...” (Eileen, 45:04)
• Be organized in tracking asks and follow-ups.
• Detach ego: They’re giving to the cause, not you personally.
• “It's really like you're selling something. And if you care about that something...I think that it will be fine.” (Eileen, 46:28)
• When in doubt, plot out dedicated times for fundraising tasks to break through procrastination.

10. The Power of Storytelling and Credibility

Timestamp: 47:36–49:18

• Narrative is crucial—facts are important, but stories are what move people.
• “Best storyteller ever. And once you tell a story about the topic that you care about, it's what is going to strike a chord with the person you're talking to.” (Eileen, 47:58; affirmed by Joan)
• Closing reminder: “Credible messenger plus compelling story equals a new [donor/supporter].” (Joan, 48:34)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I couldn't overcome my fear of what would happen if I didn't raise the money... you can't win if you don't fight.” —Eileen, 04:05
• “The people I call on are usually pretty well informed... it was just fine to be able to say, 'You know what? I don't know the answer to that question, but I will check into it and get back to you.'” —Eileen, 08:56
• “You have to talk about it. You have to actually bring that up with people and say, you know, this is something I am involved in and doing.” —Eileen, 12:12
• “Going in with a number in your head and making a very specific ask are two really important components of successful fundraising. But... listening [is just as important].” —Joan, 38:10
• “I'm really not the perfect candidate to be a fundraiser. But if I can do it, so can anyone.” —Eileen, 45:04
• “My passion for the mission of GLAAD is greater than my fear of asking or hearing no.” —Joan, 30:36 (on her motivational index card)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Segment | |------------|-----------------------------------------------| | 03:55 | Eileen’s motivation and choosing Lambda | | 06:45 | How Eileen prepared herself | | 09:58 | Prospect list: who, how, and why | | 12:12 | Socializing your cause & networking naturally | | 16:25 | Writing the first ask email | | 18:53 | Handling positive but inexperienced prospects | | 22:33 | Deciding how much to ask; the multi-year gift | | 32:16 | Coping with non-responses (“crickets”) | | 38:39 | The art of listening and follow-up | | 41:48 | Getting ready for a big ask | | 45:04 | Lessons learned and final advice | | 47:36 | The importance of storytelling |

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Practical Takeaways for Listeners

• You don’t need a massive network or fancy title to be a successful volunteer fundraiser—courage, curiosity, and organization are your best tools.
• Be honest when you don’t know something; authenticity builds trust.
• Fundraising is rarely a solo act; mentors and partners (even spouses!) are invaluable.
• Turn everyday conversations into opportunities by sincerely sharing your cause.
• Ask specifically, follow up tactfully, and detach your self-worth from the outcome.
• Storytelling is your greatest asset—facts motivate, but stories inspire.

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Tone/Mood Notes:
The conversational dynamic is warm, direct, and encouraging, with flashes of humor and authentic vulnerability. The episode is packed with practical advice, real scripts, and reassuring reminders for fundraisers at any level.

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This summary is designed for nonprofit professionals seeking actionable strategies for donor conversations, especially those new to volunteer or peer fundraising.

Transcript

[Joan Garry]

The story you are about to hear is true. My guest today really is a volunteer fundraiser. My guest today really is my wife. My wife is not a person who sits on the sidelines in life, and she likes me as a fierce advocate for her family, her friends, and for any person or community in need. Injustice infuriates her and there is no sitting idly by. So in 1993, we didn't sit idly by when we became the first woman in the state of New Jersey to secure a second parent adoption, a case that helped make the case for marriage equality. We were plaintiffs and represented by Lambda Legal, a high impact litigation firm fighting for LGBTQ equality through the courts. I want you to now fast forward 30 years when the rights of LGBTQ people are more at risk than ever before. This spring, Eileen, who will be talking, I promise, joined the National Leadership Council of Lambda Legal, its volunteer fundraising arm. And she's thrown herself full force into the task of engaging with prospects, making asks, and working to raise roughly $25,000 a year. She has done all her homework. That's the kind of gal she is. She's developed talking points, objection questions, and has a solid lead of prospects from her network. The question she has asked me have been really smart and our conversations have been beneficial for both of us. The conversations are ongoing and range from how do we get to meeting. What happens if you get no response? That's a tough one. To how much information to give, what questions to ask, and how much to ask for. I found myself realizing how much you would benefit from these conversations. So I persuaded, arm twisted my wife to join me yet again to share these insights. Yes, she is a repeat guest. She was the guest of one of our popular episodes called Confessions of a Terrible Board Member. And then at that time, Eileen agreed to join me as my terrible board member. She might have been a terrible board member, but as a fundraiser, I'm not gonna bury the lead. Eileen got a yes on her first $15,000 ask.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Welcome to Nonprofits Are Messy with Joan, Gary and Expert. This podcast is your go to space for insights, advice and inspiration designed to help nonprofit leaders overcome challenges and drive impact. Whether you're navigating small beginnings or leading a larger organization, we're here to support you every step of the way. Together with Joan and a diverse group of expert guests, we tackle the big questions nonprofit leaders face and offer actionable advice to fuel your leadership journey. A special thank you to donorperfect for sponsoring this episode and supporting nonprofits that we love. Now let's jump In.

[Joan Garry]

In addition to being my wife, Eileen Opetut is an Emmy Award winning television executive who made her mark at Nickelodeon, National Geographic. She was on the launch team of the first LGBT channel logo. Her tenure at running the Food Network was a highlight. And if you don't believe me, check out Ina Garten's memoir. Eileen is the subject of an entire chapter called Lose My Number. From Iron Chef to Anthony Bourdain to Rachael Ray, and yes, Ina Garten, Eileen transformed a network and as I like to say, made meatloaf dance. I would like to say welcome, but we're actually in our living room, so it's really not a welcome thing. So I just wanted to say thanks for sharing what you're learning as a fundraiser with our listeners. So there are a bunch of different ways that people of all ages can support the work of any organization that they care deeply about, right?

[Eileen Opetut]

Yes.

[Joan Garry]

Asking for money is probably really low on most people's list. But you actually decided to do that. Why?

[Eileen Opetut]

I couldn't overcome my fear of what would happen if I didn't raise the money. I felt so strongly that our situation could become so dire, and Lamda had helped us so much in the past that I said, you can't win if you don't fight. And I'm not an attorney. I can't actually go to court or help them in that way. The only way I can help Lambda is by giving them the ability to get the right attorneys and the right resources to do the work that they do.

[Joan Garry]

So I've known you for a long time.

[Eileen Opetut]

Yes.

[Joan Garry]

That would be 44 years.

[Eileen Opetut]

Yes.

[Joan Garry]

Is there something about fundraising that appeals to you as a bit of a solo sport?

[Eileen Opetut]

No.

[Joan Garry]

Like, that is, like, within your control. It's not like a group of people or a committee or something like that.

[Eileen Opetut]

You know, I like a challenge. I don't have a fear of talking to people, but I don't.

[Joan Garry]

I don't have that either.

[Eileen Opetut]

You don't have that either? It. It allows me to do what I'm doing at my own pace, and that might be a slow pace, because it is. It does take some gumption to pick up the phone, particularly to people that, you know, that's. What I'm doing now is calling on people I know and asking them for something I've never asked them for before. Right.

[Joan Garry]

And we will get to that. I wanted to know, did you. I know you picked the cause, LGBT equality.

[Eileen Opetut]

Correct.

[Joan Garry]

And then the organization. And as I understand it, if you were going to be A volunteer for Lambda. This is pretty much the way to be a volunteer for Lambda. If you're not an attorney. Yes.

[Eileen Opetut]

Correct.

[Joan Garry]

Okay.

[Eileen Opetut]

They do have a very wonderful call center for people who are finding themselves in difficult circumstances, but those people need to be attorneys as well.

[Joan Garry]

Okay. You could probably could pretend to be an attorney maybe.

[Eileen Opetut]

Maybe I have negotiated a few deals in my. In my time, but this. This would be it.

[Joan Garry]

Yep. Okay, great. Okay, so that's clear. So tell me how you prepare. Tell me a little bit about how you prepared this National Leadership Council. Was there kind of a training? Like, what did you get before you said ready, set, go?

[Eileen Opetut]

I actually didn't get anything.

[Joan Garry]

Nothing.

[Eileen Opetut]

No, I'm really.

[Joan Garry]

I mean, you got. You got information.

[Eileen Opetut]

I'm very surprised about that. There wasn't really a packet. I went online and did some research, did a lot of research about the organization.

[Joan Garry]

Right.

[Eileen Opetut]

Its history. There are books that exist about the history of the gay rights movement. There are lots of articles about what's going on now, what's going on during this administration. And I just took lots of notes. Lambda is very good. Their ED is extremely good. Kevin Jennings is very good at giving quarterly reports both to his board. Board and to the National Leadership Council.

[Joan Garry]

So you felt informed about current things?

[Eileen Opetut]

I did, but I felt insecure about being able to answer specific questions that might have been put to me. And I went to my. My guru because, you know, I. I actually feel that other people who are trying to raise money don't have you sitting next to them. And I can always ask you a question like, how much do you think I should ask for? Or how do you think I should get into the story with them? And so I turned to you, and you were. Thank you. Very, very, very, very, very, very, very helpful.

[Joan Garry]

So, so we'll, We'll. We'll get into some of the specifics because I want to actually tease out even just some of the kind of the core things in emails and things.

[Eileen Opetut]

But I'm not used to being a fundraiser.

[Joan Garry]

No, that's why. That's exactly why I thought.

[Eileen Opetut]

I haven't really done this before.

[Joan Garry]

No, this is. If I could have called this a Day in the Life of a Virgin fundraiser, I would have, but I didn't want people to get the wrong idea. But I also know that you prepare. And the other big thing I wanted to pull out of what you said was that people feel like they have to be ridiculously prepared.

[Eileen Opetut]

Right. And you. You were helpful by saying that if there was a question, I couldn't Answer. Because the people I call on are usually pretty well informed people, and I was anticipating getting some tough questions from them that I couldn't answer. And you were very helpful by telling me that it was just fine to be able to say, you know what? I don't know the answer to that question, but I will check into it and get back to you.

[Joan Garry]

It's always great to be able to say to a prospect what a great question.

[Eileen Opetut]

Right.

[Joan Garry]

Okay, so you've done your homework. How'd you think about your contacts and list of prospects? Some people feel like they don't know people in their contacts. Others are reluctant to ask friends for money. When you put the list together of, let's say, the top 10 people that you were going to talk to, how did you think about what was your approach to making the list?

[Eileen Opetut]

Well, let's be clear. I do not have a contact list. I'm really sort of solitary person. I do a lot of things independently. Look, here's a great hint. I love to garden. You know, that's not a social activity. That is a solitary activity. Oh, here's another thing I do. I needlepoint.

[Joan Garry]

Okay.

[Eileen Opetut]

These are not. I don't have a huge list of people. You know, some people have thousands of names on their contact list. I don't post on Facebook or Instagram or anywhere else. I'm not. Social networking is not high on my list of accomplishments.

[Joan Garry]

Right.

[Eileen Opetut]

So it was tough to come up with a list of names. And so I first thought about who might have skin in the game.

[Joan Garry]

Right.

[Eileen Opetut]

You know, did they have an LGBTQ child?

[Joan Garry]

Yeah.

[Eileen Opetut]

Were they themselves gay?

[Joan Garry]

Right.

[Eileen Opetut]

Or lesbian? Did they have a friend, a brother, a sister, an aunt, an uncle? Something like that?

[Joan Garry]

Which sometimes you know, and actually sometimes you don't.

[Eileen Opetut]

And that is what's happened is that I actually went to my college reunion and was talking to a friend and I said, you know, flippantly. I said, you know, I'm raising money for Lambda, and I would love to ask you for money. She's an attorney. He's an attorney. I figured there's capacity would be pretty good. I said, I would ask you for money, except you don't have any, like, gay kids. And she said, well, of course you can ask me for money. What about my niece? What about the daughter of one of my best friends? Right. What about. And I just went, oh, I guess I can ask you for money. And sure enough, I asked this person for money. They've gone away on vacation, but as soon as I come back, as they come back, I'm going to be asking.

[Joan Garry]

Them for a specific amount of money.

[Eileen Opetut]

A specific amount of money. So, you know, you have to talk about it. You have to actually bring that up with people and say, you know, this.

[Joan Garry]

Is something I am involved in and doing.

[Eileen Opetut]

And someone says, so what's new, Eileen? I'll. I always say, well, you know, what's really keeping me busy lately is I'm raising money for Lambda, and here's why. And usually the people say, gosh, I never thought of that. I never knew. So I'm both. Lamda is a defense, but also an education fund, and I educate that person. And most of the time, people will either say, well, you haven't thought about my niece or my whatever, but they also say, you need to talk to my friend. So.

[Joan Garry]

And so.

[Eileen Opetut]

And even though I don't know them because I have their introduction, I then can call them.

[Joan Garry]

Right. It then becomes a warm lead, actually.

[Eileen Opetut]

Correct.

[Joan Garry]

The other thing that.

[Eileen Opetut]

But I'm not starting with hundreds and hundreds of people.

[Joan Garry]

No, but you're saying something that's super important and something that we talk about with boards all the time is that when. If you are, as a board member, not being an ambassador, and when someone says, what's new? They say, I'm renovating my kitchen, as opposed to, I just left a Lambda board. Board meeting.

[Eileen Opetut]

Right.

[Joan Garry]

You're not. You're not giving people the opportunity to point you in the direction of warm leads or to be a lead yourself.

[Eileen Opetut]

Well. Or to pass that information on the next time the subject comes up. Like if they're in a room at dinner with friends and someone says, gosh, I don't understand what this whole problem is with, you know, gay rights. Like, what's the problem? Because just recently, a law was. It was decided by the Supreme Court.

[Joan Garry]

Not to hear a case on marriage equality.

[Eileen Opetut]

On marriage equality. But the fact of the matter is, it just wasn't a good case. Right. They're still looking for the.

[Joan Garry]

There will be a good case.

[Eileen Opetut]

There will be a case.

[Joan Garry]

Good.

[Eileen Opetut]

And I try to tell them that. That even if they don't know anyone or sometimes, interestingly enough, a person who doesn't think they. That issue really matters to them. The more and more that comes out, the more and more that happens in that subject area, the more aware they are.

[Joan Garry]

Right. It's on their radar screen. Thanks to you.

[Eileen Opetut]

They come back to me and say.

[Joan Garry]

You know, I just saw.

[Eileen Opetut]

I just saw on the news xyz. And that's just horrible.

[Joan Garry]

Right?

[Eileen Opetut]

Let's talk about money. So and they may not have any new leads or they might come up with leads. But what's really interesting is people will come back once it becomes more meaningful to them, and it can only be meaningful to them if they understand the issues.

[Joan Garry]

So let's make it real, and let's talk about the beginning of your first ask. So you identified a lesbian couple. Yes. And I'll just front it by saying that you had seen one of the women post some outrage about some LGBT issue. You know, something that was going on around LGBT quality and got onto our radar screen, as this is a person who is fired up about this issue.

[Eileen Opetut]

Well, it was even better than that.

[Joan Garry]

Oh, are you correcting me again?

[Eileen Opetut]

No, no, it's actually correct. But she had also seen Kevin Jennings give a presentation right. At her company.

[Joan Garry]

You're absolutely right.

[Eileen Opetut]

And she posted about how wonderful and fabulous he was, because he is. And I felt comfortable sending her a note, and I do personalize my notes. And so I reached out to them. They were really obviously warm, and they were so happy to be able to connect with me because I was able to put a face to the entire organization and was able to lead them into the organization and make sure that they got continuing information. And they are now really wanting to not just give money, but to do other kinds of work for the organization as well.

[Joan Garry]

I know that you obsessed about what to put in the email to get the meeting.

[Eileen Opetut]

Well, I'm kind of a shy person. And I was really. I was worried. I was concerned that I wouldn't know how to say, can we talk? And you said, just say you want to talk. Don't say, I am calling you because I want to ask. I want to open up your checkbook. Just say, I read your post. I'm on the National Leadership Council. It was really much more simple than I thought.

[Joan Garry]

It was much simpler. And I think the other piece of it, there were two things I think, that we talked about. One of them was you talked in that email that you and I were involved in Lambda. Correct. And talked about. I can share with you how Joan and I think about our giving to Lambda and how you might get more involved.

[Eileen Opetut]

Well, you know what? This is another thing a lot of people don't fully understand. They haven't been educated about different ways they can give money. Right. Whether it can be over a period of time. They don't understand what DAFs are. They might not understand about taxes. I don't really understand that much about that.

[Joan Garry]

But the idea of, here's how Joan and I think about our giving. That wasn't necessarily about, about the tactical pieces of giving. It was sending a message to them that we are in the game too.

[Eileen Opetut]

Yes. And it also allowed me to explain that there are different kinds of giving. Some people sort of do a scattershot approach. Anything that they kind of like, that comes their way, they give a little bit of money. But I was able to say to them that we had chosen to limit the number of different organizations we were giving money to and combining really planning our year out. And so many people have just said, you know what? We don't really have a plan. And that allowed them for us to start talking about how they might plan.

[Joan Garry]

Which is all good, all good. So part of what we're trying to do here too is help people understand the sort of flow of things. So you sent the email and you got an email back and it was right away.

[Eileen Opetut]

Yes.

[Joan Garry]

Which, by the way, doesn't happen all the time. We'll take that a little bit later on. And they said, as I recall, we plan to give money. We are going to start a donor advised fund. And I'm really excited to hear about other ways we could get more involved. And you were like, joan, Joan, Joan, I don't.

[Eileen Opetut]

How do I answer?

[Joan Garry]

What do I do with that? So you could have declared victory. Oh, good, they're going to start a DAF and they're going to give money.

[Eileen Opetut]

Yes, I could have done that. And it's not that I was just looking for like adding points to my, you know, to my list so that I could say, oh, I win, I got the most money. It was really to make sure and to think of them as my clients and to think how could I make sure that they were, you know, handled, you know, white glove, like nurtured. Nurtured, Cultivated. That's a great, that's a great word.

[Joan Garry]

Thank you.

[Eileen Opetut]

To make sure that they were given all sorts of information, that they were invited to events, that they were sent newsletters, that they were sent all sorts of information, and to put them in touch with a, with a development person who could be their link as well. Now, I know you're gonna ask this question, how did that go?

[Joan Garry]

So I wanted to make one point about the response you got, which is important, I think, for people who are listening and maybe reaching out to ask people for money. Having done it for a long time, there's a certain code around how you can get involved.

[Eileen Opetut]

Correct.

[Joan Garry]

And one of the things you said to me is, well, there isn't really a way for them to get involved other than money. To which I responded, okay, so what I have learned by the response you got is that they're relatively new to the world of being asked for money. A seasoned donor prospect would read Eileen's email and say, ah, get more involved. That means she wants to come over and ask us for money. But that is not how your prospects read that. And so what we knew just from that email alone is we knew that they were relatively new to the world of being asked for money in this way.

[Eileen Opetut]

Correct.

[Joan Garry]

And so that gave us more information as we tried to figure out how much to ask for and how the meeting went. And when we come back, we're gonna talk about how the meeting went.

[Eileen Opetut]

Great.

[Joan Garry]

Transform the way you lead your nonprofit. With expert advice and a vibrant community. At our nonprofit leadership Lab, thousands of kindred spirits from all around the world find time saving resources, trainings from experts, and a best in class team to help you. You get a good dose of me and a remarkable community. You will never feel alone with us. And we have the antidote to so many of of the challenges you face. To learn more and request an invitation, head on over to nonprofitleadershiplab.com podcast. So we're back and we are diagnosing my wife's first fundraising ask. So let's keep at it. You got the meeting. Before you left, you and I talked about how much to ask for. And we don't have to get specific about either the people or the amount even. But how did we decide? How did we talk about how much to ask for? Do you remember?

[Eileen Opetut]

We kind of narrowed ourselves down. We started higher, we started, we talked about lower and interestingly, we set a number. I went in and asked for it and they said, oh, sure, great. Which immediately made me think, oh my God, I really should have asked for more money. This is really. There's no fighting, no pushback. They just said, oh, okay, great. And I thought, well, I did both well and not so well at this. And I'm sure that at some later point I might be able to go back to them and depending on how.

[Joan Garry]

Well they are being nurtured by Lamda as an organization now, that they give at a certain level.

[Eileen Opetut]

Correct.

[Joan Garry]

You also actually asked them to give over a certain number of years.

[Eileen Opetut]

I did.

[Joan Garry]

And what was your argument? Not your argument. What was your positioning for them around giving over the course of a couple of years?

[Eileen Opetut]

Well, one was, there were many reasons. One was that they wouldn't have to be reminded that it would could happen automatically if they were setting up a donor advised fund. But more importantly, I talked about this current administration and the number of years that were ongoing.

[Joan Garry]

Right.

[Eileen Opetut]

And that Lamda really needed to be able to count on a certain amount of money coming in so that they could replace the pro bono legal services that they had started being denied. Many law firms decided to take their.

[Joan Garry]

So too hot to handle.

[Eileen Opetut]

Too hot to handle.

[Joan Garry]

Yeah.

[Eileen Opetut]

And so they needed to hire more attorneys. They needed to bring in other people who might do pro bono work. Although Lambda was very well equipped in terms of expertise, they felt they needed even more expertise than ever. And so I was able to persuade them to commit to a longer period of time.

[Joan Garry]

The other plus about that is that multi year gifts is that in year two, I don't have to make the case again. I can actually spend more time cultivating, nurturing, and telling them about how their money was put to good use.

[Eileen Opetut]

Right.

[Joan Garry]

And I think that's a really important thing that people don't think about as it relates to multi year gift gifts. So can I also say one more thing? Sure.

[Eileen Opetut]

Also, it's kind of an ego thing. Like if you ask for, if you commit to a certain amount of money over a number of years, it sounds like a big figure. And you can say to yourself, wow, we donated to such and such an organization for huge amount.

[Joan Garry]

Right. Let's say $25,000 over 10 years. It's only $2,500 a year. Not only. Forgive me, not only.

[Eileen Opetut]

No one's asking for how much is that a year. Right. They're just saying we just donated $25,000.

[Joan Garry]

So it's a pretty interesting strategy that I think is useful for.

[Eileen Opetut]

But it makes them feel good.

[Joan Garry]

Well, and this is my really briefly, how do you think they felt at the end of the meeting and how did you feel? Couple words.

[Eileen Opetut]

We've all felt great. We all felt great. We felt really constructive. We felt like we were doing things to change the world. It was a great way to chat with them. I knew these people and their son. So we had that kind of conversation and it was very, very positive.

[Joan Garry]

The other thing, and it goes back to what you were talking about with your college alumni group friend. Right. Is it leads other places. And didn't these new donors also make an offer?

[Eileen Opetut]

They did. They told me to contact their neighbors across the street because she has a lesbian sister. And I have reached out to them and they have not responded.

[Joan Garry]

Okay. So. But I also talked about hosting something.

[Eileen Opetut]

Correct. They wanted to talk about having an event at their home.

[Joan Garry]

Right. And that's you know, there are pluses and minuses to those things because events are time consuming and labor intensive, et cetera. But the point is, they started to generate ideas of how they could get other people involved.

[Eileen Opetut]

Yes. And in fact, I do that quite often when I talk to people. I say, you know, I don't know everyone in the world, and I need to get the word out. Right. So could you also be a leader in LGBTQ rights and look at your list of contacts and people who you think might really benefit from knowing more about this, from contributing to it, and feeling that they're doing something as opposed to just sitting back. And a lot of people have come forward with people that they can reach out to. It doesn't have to be me, although it could be. And I will train them and work with them and maybe walk in together with them to.

[Joan Garry]

Do you all hear the monster that has been created here? The person who actually does not think of herself as a social human being, who has never done this before and is now sort of much more boldly leaning into, this is what I am doing, and here's why. And I think this is something that volunteer fundraisers miss all the time. They miss that this is not an imposition on people. People like to hear what other people are doing to make the world a better place. They like that.

[Eileen Opetut]

Correct. And in there, I am now going, I have several lists, and the lists are all sort of categorized by different kinds of people. I'm intending to contact people who I used to work with, some people who I really haven't spoken to in a number of years. I mean, quite a number of years. But I know that they have capacity.

[Joan Garry]

Right.

[Eileen Opetut]

I also have the ability to go to the development office at Lambda to see what their history has been, if they've actually given to the organization in the past, how long it's been, if they haven't donated for a while, and then I can reach out to them with that information and knowing that they had an interest in the past to Lambda, I can then tell them what's new and try to re engage them in some way. Now, no way would I casually reach out to some of these people who, you know, some of the partings were not all that great.

[Joan Garry]

Are you talking about people you fired.

[Eileen Opetut]

Or people who fired me?

[Joan Garry]

Right.

[Eileen Opetut]

I mean, it just, you know, who doesn't get fired nowadays, in any case? You know, people that. We're not casual friends anymore.

[Joan Garry]

Okay. So.

[Eileen Opetut]

But yeah. And I feel so strongly about the issues that my hesitation is over is. Is I can get over that hurdle knowing that I'm reaching out.

[Joan Garry]

So when I first started fundraising at glaad, I had an index card that I kept in my pocket, and I always asked as they were, just as they cleared lunch before they plated the lattes, and I would go to the restroom, and I'd pull this card out of my pocket, and the card said, my passion for the mission of GLAAD is greater than my fear of asking or hearing no. And it actually, you are exhibit A in this regard. I want to talk about two categories of things. I want to talk for a few minutes about crickets, and I want to talk about friends. And then we're going to take one more break, and then we're going to come back and diagnose one more thing. Today's episode is sponsored by DRG Talent. I go way back with drg. This team is passionate about strengthening the nonprofit sector. Their work goes well beyond a holistic executive search process with strat plans, comp analyses, culture surveys, leadership 360s, and the list goes on. I refer clients to DRG regularly, and I'm excited to be able to say this with a microphone in front of me. These folks are good and they care. Reach out to them drgtalent.com and tell them, Joan Gary sent you. So you sent an email out to a number of people, different, who were friends. No, these are both friends, former colleagues. You have meetings set up with a few of them, Bava. But you got crickets from some. And I want you to tell people, how does it feel to get the crickets and what goes through your mind?

[Eileen Opetut]

I feel surprised. I'm trying not to be personally hurt.

[Joan Garry]

But there's a little of that, isn't there?

[Eileen Opetut]

There is a little bit of that. I feel as if somehow I haven't been recognized, that I haven't received the respect of just giving a response like, you know, I am very deeply involved. Here's an example. I'm deeply involved in leukemia research.

[Joan Garry]

Yep. Or I give generously to my alma mater.

[Eileen Opetut]

Right. Great. That's great. And I'm happy. And if they can't give me money or, you know, we're putting an addition on our. I'm putting a ballroom onto the White House.

[Joan Garry]

See, I always think that if they're putting an addition on their house, they do have capacity. Right.

[Eileen Opetut]

I feel bad, and I have to be, you know, honest and say, I'm working with that.

[Joan Garry]

Yes.

[Eileen Opetut]

And I think it is awkward. It is awkward. And I am working. Thank God I have Joan here Because whenever I feel, at least for this anyway, when I feel like, you know, why isn't so and so getting back to me, you give me very good advice. And that advice is, they don't like you anymore.

[Joan Garry]

They don't like you anymore. They're actually really pissed off that you sent this email. Like, what I say is, do you think everything is about that email for that person? What if they just found out that their mother has breast cancer? What if they're on vacation? Like, this is the big issue, and I won't go off on too big a tangent. Lapsed donors are your best friends because most of them are not lapsed because they don't like you anymore or the organization did something to piss them off. They're just lapsed because they have lives.

[Eileen Opetut]

Right?

[Joan Garry]

I think the bigger question, and we don't have time to go into it, is you and I are talking about how do you follow up with someone in you got crickets from? What's the best strategy? And I think that that's art, not science. Sometimes it's. You and I have talked about it. Is it an email? Is it a phone call? And I think if I've given you any advice, it's been go with what's in your gut about it rather than, there's no textbook for that.

[Eileen Opetut]

You know, I think it's okay because it's not about me. It's really about them. You know, I'm. I'm giving them an opportunity to really stand up and rise and. And they might take it and they might not. And so in a way, it's a little bit of schizophrenia because there's the regular Eileen as friend, and then there's this other part of me which is the Eileen as fundraiser. And I'm trying for the lines not to get too blurry.

[Joan Garry]

And it is there. I mean, having done this kind of work with trying to get boards to be engaged in what you're. The kind of stuff that you're doing. I literally hear from grown up human beings if I ask my friend for money and they say no, they will not like me anymore.

[Eileen Opetut]

Oh, well, that's not. Yeah, that.

[Joan Garry]

But there are board members that hold their contacts close to the vest, won't share them. Like, there's all kinds of. I mean, there's an emotional connection to people and money, no question. But I think being able to say, this is my friend and I am inviting them to be a part of something I care about and they get to do with that just as they please.

[Eileen Opetut]

But you see I'll go a step further and say I'm giving them the opportunity to get involved in something they care about.

[Joan Garry]

Right.

[Eileen Opetut]

Or they should care about or to.

[Joan Garry]

Educate them so that they begin to care about it.

[Eileen Opetut]

Correct. And so for me, it's less about me. I've really separated myself out from that. I feel a question mark like what's holding them back? And I will either call people, it's not like I'll stop being friends with them because they're not responding.

[Joan Garry]

But you do. As does everyone struggle with the okay, I sent it and I didn't get a response. Now what? And I think that. And it's okay to struggle with that.

[Eileen Opetut]

That will always be the case.

[Joan Garry]

That will always be the case. Always. So we're going to take one more break and when we come back, we're going to end by having you talk just a little bit about one more ask you have set up for December.

[Eileen Opetut]

Okay.

[Joan Garry]

Be right back. Are you a staff or board member of a small to mid sized nonprofit? Now, you might feel alone, but trust me, you are not. I built the nonprofit leadership lab for the millions who are just like you. You'll find time saving resources when your pants are on fire, opportunities to uplevel your skills and a warm, nurturing private community of what we call superheroes. Thousands of board and staff leaders call the lab home and we'd love for you to join us. Learn [e-mail] we're back now. So I think this has been a really interesting conversation about the steps and details of how to get an ask, how to think about how much to ask for and to recognize that so much more of it is an art than a science and that you learn something every single time you send an email when you get one back. Like everything tells a story. And the one thing I just do want to say is that when we were talking about how much to ask that first couple, going in with a number in your head and making a very specific ask are two really important components of successful fundraising. But the third one that I think a lot of people really miss is is listening and garnering as much information as you possibly can about who they are as people in the philanthropic world.

[Eileen Opetut]

That is what I just recently did with a couple. I wanted to know who they were in terms of donations, how they think about it. And two really successful, intelligent people don't really have a plan.

[Joan Garry]

Right.

[Eileen Opetut]

It's a very kind of.

[Joan Garry]

And that's so common.

[Eileen Opetut]

Right.

[Joan Garry]

You could be talking about any number of prospects. You meet with, over the course of the next year, people who give opportunistically, people who give to friends of theirs.

[Eileen Opetut]

Who ask just sort of ad hoc, you know, very. You know, as it crosses their. Their transom.

[Joan Garry]

So.

[Eileen Opetut]

So, yeah, I. I was surprised to hear that because they're both very thoughtful people and organized people, and so it felt good to be able to give them options, you know, to talk to them about the different ways they could be considering giving money. And in that case, it was helpful. And then when I spoke about a number, there was silence in the room. There was silence in the room. I mean, as I was sitting there, I thought, do I ask this number? Do I ask it? Should I do. Should I. Should I just say, you know, what you think about it, and you have.

[Joan Garry]

To ask the number, Tell us.

[Eileen Opetut]

Just call me and give me whatever you think. I said, no, Eileen. This was all in my head. Of course I said, no, you're going to give them a number. And I gave them the number. There was silence, but I think because I came to see them, or maybe it's a zoom call or a telephone call, and because they generally respect me as a rational human being, they didn't think I was sort of pulling things out of the air. They heard what I said, and they, although they, I think, were shocked, said maybe they were. Well, maybe I read into it.

[Joan Garry]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Eileen Opetut]

But they did say, we are going to talk about that. We are going to think about that, and we will get back to you. The only thing I did not do was I did not say, when do you think you'll get back to me?

[Joan Garry]

Yep, we talked about that. When you got home. That this is the hardest part, is that the hanging chad of fundraising, you ask for a number and they say, we're going to talk about that and we'll get back to you. And you're like. And the line that I typically use is the worst part. There's only one bad part about being a fundraiser, and that is ever feeling like a pest. So I'd like you to give me some permission to follow up with you. If I don't hear from you, what would you suggest? A week from Friday, like.

[Eileen Opetut]

And then I.

[Joan Garry]

Then a week from Friday comes. I feel like I've been given the okay to follow up, and I think that's something I forgot to do, that.

[Eileen Opetut]

I should have done it.

[Joan Garry]

That's okay. We're not going to give any points off. Okay. Now, finally, you have this Zoom meeting coming up in December with another couple this couple is prime. Not only is one person an attorney. Right. But the other has had a very successful career as a fundraiser. We know them well.

[Eileen Opetut]

That's scary, right?

[Joan Garry]

Me especially, given that said fundraiser was my development director at GLAAD and taught me almost everything I know about fundraising and development work. So amazingly, like, I don't know, a month ago or so, Julie called and she said I'm using her real name. I think we want to set up a daf, a donor advised fund, and I bet you have one. I need to know more because it turns out we have more money than I thought we did.

[Eileen Opetut]

That's always a good place to be.

[Joan Garry]

Yes. And we want to become more philanthropic now as a fundraiser. Bells go off, Right? It's like you're on the Price Is Right or something. And we also know that this couple really likes to be well informed. And so how are you getting ready for this ask? Right. So you've got somebody who's primed, you've got an attorney, a development person, which could be intimidating, actually.

[Eileen Opetut]

It is, Right.

[Joan Garry]

How are you getting ready? Don't worry. This will likely air after you've actually had this conversation. But I'm just kind of wondering, given that scenario. And I also just want to say to those of you who are listening, I am definitely talking here about major donor fundraising. I'm not really talking about. We're not talking about asking people for a couple hundred bucks, which is a very important component of your fundraising strategy. This really is about major donor fundraising, and I want to just make that clear. How are you thinking about going, getting ready for this particular ask, given that context?

[Eileen Opetut]

Well, I originally thought I would put a packet together of information about the latest cases, the wins, the losses that Lamda is going through. And I spoke to you about it. Once again, it's great to have Joan there to always be able to ask questions. And you said, you know what, why don't you ask them if they want information, if they want a packet? And so that's what I'm going to do is I'm going to write to them probably at the end of this week and say, or maybe next week and say, for our meeting on December, whatever it is, would you like something to review before we have our talk?

[Joan Garry]

Right. And the point there is to give as much. Empower the donor prospect as much as possible. Don't assume, but ask them. They'll tell you. And that couple will totally tell you.

[Eileen Opetut]

Right. And to say to them, I would be sending it so that you can be prepared with all the questions you might have.

[Joan Garry]

Yep. That you may or may not know the answers to. So as we kind of close this out, I guess I just wonder if you have maybe what are a couple things you feel like you've learned so far and any advice you might have for somebody who maybe you're asked to say, would you meet with somebody who wants to join the National Leadership Council at Lambda? And they're new to fundraising, so maybe a couple of lessons and a piece of advice.

[Eileen Opetut]

Well, the first thing I would say is that I'm really not the perfect candidate to be a fundraiser. But if I can do it, so can anyone. And knowing that, that makes me even better. I mean, I'm really proud of the asks that I've made and the results. And I would, you know, maybe just take. I would take the plunge. And it took a long time for me. It did. I hesitated. I've been on the Leadership council for a number of months, and I've been thinking about it the whole time, but I've been kind of nervous about it. But once you start, the connective tissue is all there, and one thing leads to another and to another, and it seems to be working. I would be very organized about how you're asking, who you're asking, when you're asking, and to create a plan for follow up. And I really would separate your own ego out of it. They're not giving a fund to you. They're giving money to work that either they. I can get them, you know, interested in and. And concerned about. And so in a way, I can fight better. I can promote something else, a cause better than I can promote myself. It's really like you're selling something. And if you care about that something and you create the sound bites or the information that you think will touch that person's brain or heart, I think that it will be fine. And you should not worry about overstepping or catching people. There's never the right time or the wrong time at every time. Right now in the nonprofit world is the right time. There is no one out there, unless they've been living in a cave, who doesn't realize that all nonprofits are hurting.

[Joan Garry]

Right. Well, I just want to say that. Do you remember who persuaded me to apply for a nonprofit executive director job?

[Eileen Opetut]

I did.

[Joan Garry]

And when I said, are you kidding me right now? I have never asked anyone for money before, do you remember what you said? Oh, well, what do you think you said?

[Eileen Opetut]

How hard could it be?

[Joan Garry]

I'm sure you said that, but you also Said you don't understand that asking people for money is not like. Like selling a used car. Well, it's about relationships and about telling stories.

[Eileen Opetut]

Yes, it's about telling stories.

[Joan Garry]

I believe those are the things.

[Eileen Opetut]

Best storyteller ever. And once you tell a story about the topic that you care about, it's what is going to strike a chord with the person you're talking to. And so it's not just the facts and being prepared with how many people do we serve. And it's really selecting two or three examples so that people can understand what happens when your organization does its work or what happens when it can't do its work.

[Joan Garry]

Plaintiffs are storytellers, Correct?

[Eileen Opetut]

Right.

[Joan Garry]

And every one of your organizations have stories. And my equation is that credible messenger plus compelling story equals a new fill in the blank. Right. I hope this is helpful. Not all of you have direct access to me as a asking fundraising coach. And that's why we thought maybe if we threw a mic in front of the two of us, it would help you on your journey. And I actually just want to say that we were talking about procrastinating a couple of weeks ago and that we always put the hardest thing at the bottom of the list. And I know it's been. I want to make it really clear to people. This has been at the bottom of your list.

[Eileen Opetut]

Well, it's at the top of my list, but I do all the things below it first, like go to the dry cleaner, go to the supermarket.

[Joan Garry]

Sure.

[Eileen Opetut]

I, you know, I've always been that way. You know, we check off a lot of different tasks. So what I did, and I'm sorry if this is not ending the way you are planning it. I actually, what was helpful to me was to plot out a certain time of the day that I was going to be the most productive. And because I'm a retired person, it doesn't apply to all of you. But you can still organize your way to saying, this hour or this stretch of time I will devote to. It doesn't have to be every day. It could just be two times a week or whatever it is. But you're. You don't schedule during that period of time, and you allow yourself to just dig in. And once you start it, it's been. It was very hard to get started, but once I began, it was extremely valuable and I got just as much as other people gave.

[Joan Garry]

Yes. That is, that is, maybe we leave it there that if you. That if you are really passionate about the cause, that when you ask, it actually feels good. It actually feels good to give money to causes that you care about. You should take a lot of pride in what you're doing because there are way too many people that are furious or upset or scared and are not actually doing anything about it. And you are. And I'm really proud of you. And you should be really proud of yourself.

[Eileen Opetut]

Thank you. We all have to rise indeed.

[Joan Garry]

But I hope you found it valuable. I'm actually quite sure you did. I hope you'll share it. This is an excellent podcast for to talk about with your board or with your development team to get people really thinking about the nuts and bolts of asking for money in a different kind of way. So until then, Eileen, thank you. Thank you. We can rearrange our furniture back. And speaking of all that you do, thank you who are listening for all that you do. Take good care of yourself and we will see you next time. Take care.

[Podcast Host / Narrator]

Thank you for spending time with us today. We hope this conversation provides valuable insights as you navigate the messy but meaningful world of nonprofits. A Special thanks to DonorPerfect for sponsoring this episode and for their dedication to empowering nonprofits like yours to do more good. For more resources to support your work, visit joengarry.com podcast we think you'll find a lot of helpful things there. Most importantly, thank you for all you do to make the world a better place, one small or large step at a time. Talk to you all next time.