← Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership | Fundraising | Board Development | Communications
Nonprofits Are Messy: Lessons in Leadership | Fundraising | Board Development | Communications
Ep 252: CRM Matchmaking: How to Ensure the Right Fit for Your Nonprofit with Julia Gackenbach
00:47:25
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- [00:00]
A
There is a tool in nonprofits that is so vital and almost ubiquitous that you probably have heard of it, even if you don't ever actually touch it. As a former executive director, I heard about it when something was wrong and when things were going well. Not a peep. I'm obviously talking about your CRM Constituent Relationship Management System. This is the tool that allows you to catalog and track all of your people and all of their interactions with your organization. This includes donors, volunteers, board members, and ideally for most, if not all, nonprofits, you want the number of people in that system to grow. So all of this is to say that choosing the right tool can unlock doors, and choosing the wrong one can have you banging your head against a locked door again and again. Fortunately, we have found an expert in this area who has walked this walk herself and now focuses on helping others do the same. She's going to share all her wisdom with you, dear listeners, so you can reap the benefits of choosing the right CRM for you and avoid the endless frustration of working with the wrong system. Kind of like having the wrong match. Sort of sounds like matchmaking, and I guess it kind of is. Let's dive in. Welcome to Nonprofits Are Messy with Joan, Gary and experts. This podcast is your go to space for insights, advice, and inspiration designed to help nonprofit leaders overcome challenges and drive impact when whether you're navigating small beginnings or leading a larger organization, we're here to support you every step of the way. Together with Joan and a diverse group of expert guests, we tackle the big questions nonprofit leaders face and offer actionable advice to fuel your leadership journey. A special thank you to donorperfect for sponsoring this episode and supporting nonprofits that we love. Now, let's jump in. I am so excited to have Julia Gachenbach here with us. Julia knows more than a few things, including but not limited to relationships, communications, fundraising, and strategy. All of this has led her to be heavily engaged with CRMs as a nonprofit relationship manager, a development director, and now a senior communications manager at DonorPerfect. A link to Julia's bio is in the show notes. But to kick us off in real life, Julia, can you share how you got started in this wild world that we both live in?
- [03:11]
B
Of course. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really grateful to be here and I'm so excited to talk about this matchmaking process of finding the right CRM.
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A
Exactly.
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B
Yeah. I mean, I think everybody who got into nonprofit work has a really, really unique story. I think most people kind of stumbled into it which was my case, I actually started out by wanting to do ministry. I grew up in the church and just really wanted to help people. A lot has changed since I kind of made that first decision, but nothing has changed when it comes to just the care for serving people. And that's kind of how I got started in the nonprofit world. My first role was supporting a director of partnerships and he did a lot of around relationships. Obviously if he was focused on partnerships, he had to really be aware of who he was talking to when he was talking to them. And then after that I started started a role at an international nonprofit where I worked mostly in Europe. So I had a lot of cultural uniqueness with my partners. And then finally I last worked at a local nonprofit that did student led clubs in high schools and middle schools. And we had a large budget and a lot of givers. My role there was the director of development. So really got into the fundraising of it all. Got elbows deep into donor management and the importance of partnerships and how you kind of navigate those partnerships. It's funny because I'm a very relational person and I think when I started in nonprofits I thought, oh my gosh, I'm just going to talk to people all day long and I just love people and I want to build relationships with people. And it's so much more than that kind of getting thrown into the fundraising of it all and the data of it all. I wasn't really prepared for that when I started my roles at my nonprofits, but have really grown to see the value in that data and how it helps build those important relationships.
- [05:15]
A
Okay, so this is a really good segue and I, I agree with you. I think a lot of people do sort of fall into nonprofit because of the same reason you said, because they want to help people. And it may not be ministry specifically, but they want to serve and they want to help. And you ended up falling into this niche where you really are focused on relationships and how do you manage those relationships. So when you think about a CRM, why should I understand why you would, Julia, but why the heck should all of the various folks listening care about a CRM? Isn't it like just for fundraisers and data geeks and math nerds? I want to say for the record, I love geeks and nerds. No disrespect there. I'm married to one. I just want to, I want to know why should everybody in a non profit give a crap about a CRM?
- [06:10]
B
I definitely think the fundraisers and data geeks and Nerds flourish in a CRM. I'm sure that many, many like me, just like to kind of poke around in there. But beyond that, there is so much value in a CRM for a nonprofit as a whole. So I'll give a couple of examples. One is, first and foremost, these relationships. So that first job I told you about, where I worked with the person who is the director of partnerships, he had a really unique method, and he had everyone that he had a partnership with in this really, really long list. And each person was assigned as an A, B or a C. And A's were contacted monthly, B's were contacted quarterly, and C's were contacted annually. So it was kind of my job to organize who was being contacted when. What could we say to them? What was something recent that happened in their life? Was their birthday coming up, something like that. How are we managing these intentional contacts? So using something like a CRM can help you make those tags. So for me, I actually didn't use a CRM at this role, which made it really, really tough sometimes. But if I had a CRM, I could have tagged, hey, here's all my A listers. And then let me sort them by birthdays so we can make sure we don't miss their birthday. We're contacting them every month. If we're contacting them the month of their birthday, we probably tell them Happy Birthday. We know them. So things like that, that just help these relationships be stronger. The same can be true when it comes to fundraising. So beyond the actual relationship into the partnership and the fundraising, for me, I wanted to. Whenever the. The day I knew the golf tournament date was signed in contact, like there was a contract for the golf tournament date, I sent an email to Joe, Bill, and Jeffrey. Okay, those were my three biggest golf guys.
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A
Yeah, Joe, Bill, and Jeffrey. They gotta know exactly.
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B
I had to tell them exactly when the golf date happened. And so I was able to kind of put them in a contact group using my CRM and send them contacts based on what they were interested in. And without a CRM, I couldn't have kept track of all that. I mean, I had 7,000 records in my CRM. How was I going to keep track of what Jeffrey's email address was? I wouldn't have known. And so being able to put them in these groups for the relational and for the partnership tactics was really, really important to me. And that's like, the data management side of this. That didn't seem as daunting to me once I really got into it, because it was relational. Like, I wanted to know that these were my guys for the golf tournament, and I wanted to know whose birthday it was. Like, that. It didn't feel data y. It felt relational, which was really important.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And then the second thing I'll say about CRMs is they provide like a. A unification and a continuity within the organization. So a couple of examples of that. One, if a big donor gave to my organization while I was the development director, I maybe wasn't going to be the next person to see that donor, but maybe my executive director was going to see them. And so before my executive director sat down for that meeting with Don, he could look her up and see when her last gift was. So he didn't need me whispering in his ear about who did what when. We had a shared source of truth, knowledge, brain that could tell him without me telling him. And then lastly, I'll say, I now I work with DonorPerfect. So I left my nonprofit role. And what would happen if when I left, all of that knowledge walked out the door with me? That would be a huge hindrance to my nonprofit. If I knew the people who are interested in the golf tournament, and I knew when everybody's last. Last gift was, and I knew who was on the list for last year's gala and needs to be on the list for this year's gala and just walked out with that information, that hurts the nonprofit as a whole. We want that longevity of the data to be transferred, even if personnel is changing. So I'd say those three things are the biggest part of CRMs. Relationships, longevity, and the source of truth.
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A
A shared source of truth. That sounds very important. And although the examples were primarily fundraising, I have seen, seen, and maybe you've seen also, Julia, like, examples where people are using that CRM to also keep track of volunteers, of board members who are very often donors, but like people who are like, key stakeholders to an organization. It doesn't always have to be, you know, just the dollars and cents. It really. You really can keep track of those relationships. And what are people interested in? And the birthday example is a great one. Nobody wants to get a call on their birthday, and the person doesn't even realize it's their birthday. If you're supposed to know them like it. You know, it seems like a small thing, but it's important for anyone in the organization to know if they're getting into contact with those folks.
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B
Absolutely. And I'll say to the volunteer thing, that is a great call out, Glenda, because you don't contact Your volunteers the same way you contact your donors. And so having them organized in a CRM so that you can contact them specifically about their specific thing is so valuable. So, yes, of course, there are so many different kinds of people that can go into your CRM. You can have program people, people who are running your programs, volunteers, past donors, foreign members, all of those things. The same is true for I. I was a development director. And so I used mine for a lot of fundraising. And so my monthly givers would be in one group and my major or one time givers would be in another group. Because if I was sending an email to my, you know, $5,000 giver saying, hey, you feel like giving 25 bucks a month? They would say, yeah, what a bargain, let me do that.
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A
Sure, let me shift to that.
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B
Exactly. And I wouldn't want to undermine my major donors by something so small or scare off my monthly donors by suggesting something so big. So again, you're right. It's like the organization of those different types of people is so important and valuable when it comes to a CRM.
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A
Yeah, I completely agree. And I'm envisioning like the golf tournament. Tournament. We didn't have a golf tournament. We had a bike ride. But there were like people that participated as fundraisers, as peer support fundraisers in the bike ride. And then there are people that participated as volunteers. They were all in the same database, but we communicated with them very differently about very different things. So this kind of gets to why I wanted you to be on this podcast, Julia, because you have been out there in the world really, like when you shifted from what I imagine they do not recommend, which is just a long list of names and dates and people, which was still sounds like was your first job to eventually realizing, okay, I need a real CRM and, and really going out there and shopping. What did you do and what should listeners do to make sure they find the right match? We could call, if this was written, we would call the section the do's and we will eventually get to the don'ts. But what do you. What do you suggest folks do when they are shopping for the right CRM for them?
- [14:17]
B
Yeah. So for me, I knew I was not happy with my CRM. And the moment I knew that, I started making a list as to what little things were annoying me and what was making my job harder. So I took time before I really pulled the plug on my first on the CRM that I left. I took time to figure out what it was because it's so easy to say oh, that thing doesn't work, you know, But. But why, like what, what obstacles was I running into that was making my job harder? So that's the first thing I did was starting. Started to make a list. The things that really stood out to me were that there were certain things that I needed and there were certain things that I wanted. And sometimes they didn't balance out and sometimes they did. Like there were opportunities that I didn't have because my CRM wasn't offering this thing that I wanted. So I wanted to make a list. I wanted to measure out the needs and wants, and then I needed to find something that definitely had my needs and was creative about my wants. So, for example, I needed to spend less time doing things that should have been automatic. Adding people to the right email list, updating email addresses, updating lapsed credit cards that. That should have been automatic. Why was I calling my monthly donors saying, hey, your credit card labs, do you want to keep giving? Those were things that I was spending time on that I needed not to spend time on, that I needed to be sitting down with donors. I needed to be at our programs. I needed to be documenting stories, not calling monthly donors who had already committed to being a monthly donor and asking them to be a monthly donor again.
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A
Oh, my goodness. I am listeners. I'm hanging my head, I am shaking it that I think we're especially attuned in this moment where AI is so big and technology there is such a genuine opportunity to not waste time on the things that can be automated. That makes so much sense for a Sierra. Why would the calling. Look, I've been there. I can relate and it makes me want to bang my head against that door to my too.
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B
So things like that, that I just needed to find a way to save time with my relationships. Also, I had inherited the system that I switched from. And so I knew that I needed support and training. I needed access to people who understood the system. Because my old system that I inherited, I didn't have a way to contact support. I didn't have people I could speak with that were going to help me learn more. And throughout my first couple of months, once I purchased, I ended up going with donor perfect, which is also why I work here now. But when I ended up purchasing my CRM, I knew I was going to have to have time to learn it because I was so frustrated before that I didn't know the system. And so that was a need for me. Another thing is, you know, I could look at my calendar. We did similar events Every year we did a golf tournament, we did a sporting clay shoot, we did a gala, we did an auction. I could look at my kind of pillar events and know what I needed for those fundraising moments. So I needed peer to peer because I was doing a golf tournament, I needed an auction platform. I needed the ability to customize my bio pages of each of my donors. Just things that were really valuable to my day to day work. Those were the things that I starred on that list of things that annoyed me about my old product and things that I needed for my new software. It was very important to know for sure what I was shopping for before I started shopping, because there are a lot of products out there, a lot of really great products, and they all kind of scratch different inches, which is wild. And so finding exactly what you need before you go looking is really important.
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A
Yeah, yeah. And that just distinguishing between the needs and the wants. It's very easy to get distracted by the bells and whistles of you can do this thing. But really asking yourself, do you need
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B
to do that thing?
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A
Is that so true?
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B
That is so true. There was one thing in particular that I had on every list and I thought, gosh, I really want this thing. I really want this thing. And then I found out when I was doing my research that that thing was used by less than 5% of nonprofits and it just wasn't a practical thing. And I was like making it more in my head than it should have been. And I was like eliminating options based on this thing that I probably wasn't even going to use. So definitely knowing your needs versus what's the flashy, unique thing that doesn't even apply to what you're doing.
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A
Totally.
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B
It's a very important differentiation.
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Like with every. I feel like we come back to this point again and again with leaders, which is prioritizing, you know, what is the most important thing that you must have with any CRM to make this the best match and then go down from there. You know, what could you live without? But it might be nice.
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C
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A
i want to talk about the process for a second. So. So you went shopping for a new CRM. I don't know if in this example you did or did not involve your board, but I, I know that folks are. It feels very clear from a staff perspective like how one would use and think about a CRM. But what about if you, Julia, kind of put your board hat on. How should boards be thinking about or involved in CRM selection, if at all?
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B
Yeah, so this, I love this question because it's again, kind of unique to the non profit, but I think you would fall into one of two camps. So either you have a really, really, really involved board or you have a board that thinks that the CRM doesn't apply to them. And I think that we can talk about both of these. Okay. So the overly involved board needs to see from the start how this tool will help you and the rest of your staff not only save time, but also make your mission go further. I think that an overly involved board is just that because they're passionate about your mission.
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A
Yes.
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B
And so proving to them that this makes an impact on your mission is what will make the difference. So how do you prove that? Things like it will save me time on calling lapsed credit cards. I can be at program sites collecting stories. Yeah, things like it integrates with our email communication system and we'll be able to see who is clicking on what and what people are excited about. It will align our donation forms and anybody who gives to us will automatically be entered into our CRM and there's no more data entry. It saves time for this person. Yeah, things like that that are proof points as to how this will help with operations so that your mission can go further. So that's one camp. Go ahead.
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A
And just, just for that camp, I want to. Because believe me, there, there are, there's a spectrum right there. The overly involved board that doesn't need to be maybe, perhaps. And then there is the involved board who is overly involved because they're a working board. It might be a new organization. They're not just sitting on the board and sitting back and doing governance. They're like, no, I actually have to interact with these people. So I, I just want to, I want to make that. Make. Yeah, make that distinction. It could be either.
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B
And that, and I don't mean to speak ill of overly involved boards in any way. My board wasn't necessarily very involved and I wanted them to be because there's so much opportun for relationship for them. I would have loved for them to host a table at our gala and know the people who they were sitting with. So, but that, that kind of goes into this, this next group of the board who thinks that they shouldn't be involved in a CRM, Right?
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A
Yes.
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B
If you choose the right CRM, then your board can be involved because you're able to say, hey, look at what's coming in financially, or look at what we're doing with our volunteers, or here's the list of people who have not given yet this year and we would like for them to. Will you help us contact them? Here's a list of people who were at the gala last year who we don't know. Can you reach out to them and find out who they are? Why were they there? What did they want to be involved in? Your board can become an extension of you if they feel comfortable with the tool. So if you choose the right CRM, they will feel more involved and more comfortable. And the same is true. Like what you said for the involved board, they want to use the tool too. So it reaches across the organization like we talked about earlier, with the continuity and being able to know things about each other. If you want your board to be involved in your CRM, that's a really great use of time and they can build relationships the same way you can. So it's. I think it's really, really valuable. And if you're able to prove to the board the value that your CRM is bringing, I think they'll. They'll be all about it.
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A
Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's a very good point. I, I was thinking, I was asking the question both on the, like, how do you actually involve them? And then, like, what's appropriate? Like, I think that, you know, there are some. These are truly the overly involved boards who are like, we want to select the CRM. We want to be involved. That's. I think that's like the true definition of like, that's probably overly involved. You are not going to be the primary user of the CRM. You should let the staff person, whether it's the executive director or the development director, some combination, select that CRM. But if it's working well, the information that comes out of that is going to be so motivating for that board that they will want to be involved, they will care. And it's, it's got to be like you said in the beginning, I love that the one source of truth, like the, it's sort of the one thing. If you can't count on what? Like you're questioning, oh, my. CRM told me this, but I, I don't think that's true. What about this person? What about this person? It's like a great example of what we're going to get into next right after the break, which is the CRM don'ts. Like how. What are the mistakes that you have seen or. Or heard about from friends? Of course, never. You wouldn't make them yourself, Julia, but other people might make them. That people make when they are choosing CRMs. We're going to take a quick break, and we're going to get right back to that.
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C
Today's episode is sponsored by DRG Talent. I go way back with drg. This team is passionate about strengthening the nonprofit sector. Their work goes well beyond a holistic executive search process with strat plans, comp analyses, culture surveys, leadership 360s, and the list goes on. I refer clients to DRG regularly, and I'm excited to be able to say this with a microphone in front of me. These folks are good and they care. Reach out to them. DrG talent.com and tell them, Joan Gary sent you.
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A
So now on to what not to do when you're looking for a CRM. Like, you already addressed what you thought was important and you realized, no, that's actually, that's like a nice to have. That's not a need to have. What are the don'ts around choosing a CRM that you want to save other people from making those mistakes?
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B
Yeah, and you mentioned it, but we talked about it a little bit earlier on, kind of being aware of majoring on the majors and not majoring on the minors. If something is a nice to have or a bonus, I don't think that's what causes you to make your overall decision. What causes you to make your overall decision are the things that you need. The other thing is this. For example, one of the CRMs I was looking at offered to reach out to my donors on my behalf, which, you know, one of the things that I was shopping for was something that didn't make me reach out to my donors and ask them to continue giving when their credit card lapsed. And so this CRM said, oh, no, you don't have to do that. We'll do that for you. And face value, I think, oh, great, I don't have to do that. But when I thought about it a little bit more, it was, wait, I want to be the one contacting my donors. I don't want to feel cut out by my CRM. So I Think things like that, that might seem helpful, but maybe once you think about it, it doesn't align with your needs or your beliefs. That's the important thing to avoid. So. So like, I at first thought, oh great, I don't have to do that anymore. But as the more I thought about it, I thought, no, those are my relationships. If anybody's calling them about their credit card number, it's me. So things like that I think can be a quick pitfall and just something to be aware of when you're shopping.
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A
Yeah, gosh, that's such a great example. And I have not heard that before. Maybe this is something that's more common. I was not a full time development professional. I was sort of lead fundraiser in the CEO or executive director role. But I, that, that there's a part of that, like a company saying, hey, we'll contact those donors and update that information that I, that would be appealing. And then there's a part of it that's like, it's kind of a red flag.
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B
I know, it's like, like, I mean, you mentioned matchmaking in the beginning. It's kind of like you gotta really think through some of these promises that.
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A
Yeah, yeah. I'm like, what if that interaction goes poorly? What if it doesn't happen? What if it. I mean, there's just so many things to think about when you're. And this is such a. The reason we're doing an entire podcast episode on CRMs is I would argue this is one of the most important tools that you will use as a nonprofit organization. And choosing the right one is really critical. It just, it can be great if you choose the right one and it can be really challenging if you choose the wrong one. And so we're trying, trying to help folks avoid those mistakes. So what is, since we're on that, that note, what is the most typical, like, painful part of this process and how might you recommend lessening that pain? What are people really worried about, like, that prevents them. You mentioned, like, okay, I was going to be shopping, so I needed to kind of pull it together. What. What is that?
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B
Yeah, I think there are a few. The first I'll say, like, sometimes people like to rely on the devil, you know. So, yes, it's very easy to say, yeah, I hate that about my CRM or I hate that about the spreadsheet we're using, but it's worked for this long or, but we're still raising money, but whatever. Yeah, but the transition to something that can grow with you is so much more Valuable in the long term. So the initial kind of pain and fear of switching, I think was something that was really hard for me and my organization. They had used it for years before I had arrived. Nobody knew how to use it. Let me preface that. When I say they had used it, I mean it existed. Nobody really used it. And so they were like, well, we know what this thing does. Why don't we just keep it? But I saw the growth opportunities and the ability to customize and the importance of forms and things like that. But they wanted to rely on the devil they knew. And so making that initial pitch can be a little daunting and a little tough. The other thing that I think is most daunting and the biggest pain point is the data transfer. Yes.
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A
Like I said, I get scared just thinking about it. I've never actually done it directly, but I'm like, my God, that data is so valuable. What if something happens?
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B
It's true. And I would lay in bed at night thinking about the data before I made this switch. And I would just think to myself over and over, trash in, trash out, trash in, trash out. Like, if I'm. Even if I'm switching databases, if I'm giving them trash, then I'm gonna get trash. So, like, am I the problem? Is my trash the problem here? So I think that also was just really daunting to me and felt like a pain point. Lucky for me, the CRM I switched to, which I was proud and happy to switch to, the CRM I switched to, like, held my hand through the data transfer. I wasn't alone. And I think, again, some of those daunting things like the devil you know, or the data transfer, it's just that somebody has to tell you, like, hey, it's okay over here on this side. Like, it's not going to be that hard. We got you. Come on over and you'll see the benefits. Yeah, that I think is like the. It feels like an unknown. But with CRMs, there are CRMs that will walk you through the process. And that is what I needed in order to get through some of those pain points.
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A
Yeah, you. So I've heard you say this, and I want to pull out for listeners. We try to be really tactical and practical for folks. When you're thinking about switching CRMs or getting a CRM, think about the level of support that you're going to get through this process. Like you mentioned, like, is someone going to be there to pick up the phone? I know it sounds old school, but this is what I Still do pick up the phone if you have a question about something going to be an answer on the other end or this big data transfer. Are they relying on you to do that and good luck or are they actually going to do that for you? Are they going to partner with you to walk through it like that? That seems to be a big factor given all the different systems out there that do so many different things.
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B
Huge. Yeah, I, I'm not a phone support person, but I am a chat support person. Like I wanted to chat with a real human who is going to understand my problem and tell me how to fix it. Huge deal for me. So much so that when I started working for DonorPerfect, I reached out to our support department and said, hey, please don't look at my chat records because I'm sure I asked you so many crazy questions. Questions? Yeah, just such a tool for me, it was like an extension of my team. It was like I hired a new team member who knew all about my CRM and it was like this, you know, benefit. Not only do I now have a donor management system, but I also have someone that I can chat with, call or email anytime and they're going to tell me how to use it. That's like a dream.
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A
Yeah, I, I completely understand that. Especially we work with a lot of small to mid sized scrappy non profits in the nonprofit leadership lab and they do not have teams. You know, it's sometimes it's just one person or it's just one person who's focusing on development and so having that support can be huge. I wanna, it's not a devil's advocate question, but it's, it's a real question about like. So when you're looking for a CRM, why would you say, would you agree with like bigger is just better so you can grow into it? Like is there an allure? I'm feeling a little bit of a tug of like, well yeah, you wanted to have the things you needed to have, but isn't it just better to get the biggest like one you could afford so you, as your donors grow, you can grow into that system?
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B
That's a really interesting question because I don't even know how I would classify the biggest because we're talking about software and so there aren't really boundaries when it comes to software. I would say more than anything, whether it's top of the line, the cheapest one, whatever. I would say you find the one that can grow with you because you don't want to hit a ceiling and have to switch again. You want to find and donor management system that's going to be great for you now and great for you in five years and great for you in 10 years because all that historical data is in there. And so you want it to grow with you. So I remember whenever I was shopping, a lot of companies based their pricing on how many constituents you had, so how many records you had within your system. And I remember thinking, oh, well, maybe I could get it down to below that price threshold and, like, it could be a little bit cheaper. But the ability to get back into that higher threshold was important. I didn't want to run into the end of my CRM. That doesn't make any sense. So being able to find something that will grow with you, I think is the most important thing.
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A
Yeah.
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B
And to help you grow. So, you know, there's a difference between a database and a CRM. And database is just like a airport hangar that you throw a bunch of stuff in.
- [37:13]
A
Okay.
- [37:15]
B
Should help you learn, grow, raise more, do more. You don't just need a storage unit. You need something that's helping your mission go further, that's helping your fundraisers raise more, that's helping your volunteers understand the programs better. It's more dynamic than a database.
- [37:34]
A
Yeah. Oh, that's such a good point. I'm glad you bring that up. So another point for listeners, I guess, would be to not just think about the data presentation, like, how is the storage being stored and displayed like a database, but to think about the functionality. What is this actually going to allow you to do in the relationships that really matter to you? And that example is a great one. Like, yeah, you could get a cheaper price if you have under 200 contacts. But everyone knows the point is you want to grow. You want many more than 200 contacts, so why limit yourself? How. Do you have any practical tips for how. How can you look at a potential CRM partner and see, like, is this. Is this a CRM that can grow?
- [38:25]
B
Is.
- [38:25]
A
Is there potential here? Am I going to, you know, reach the limit of what the CRM can do in the next three to five years? Because then that seems like maybe an indicator it's not a great match.
- [38:39]
B
Yeah, that's a great question. I'm not sure that any of them really lay it out because they wouldn't really want you to know that you're.
- [38:46]
A
No, but I know.
- [38:47]
B
Give us.
- [38:49]
A
Give us the inside scoop, Julia. That's why we have you here.
- [38:53]
B
I think it's an important question to ask when you're meeting with those CRMs like you sit down and do a demo and see what that CRM says so you can ask, hey, you know, do you have a cap on the number of constituents or what things are you innovating right now? What's. Maybe you don't have them in your system, but what's something that you all are excited for that you're creating right now so you can kind of see does this, the system align with your growth plans? I would also say it's hard to know if something is not big enough for you if you don't know your goals. So if I were to ask my salesperson, well, hey, I want to make sure that I'm not going to outgrow you. And they say, well, what are your plans? And I say, well, I don't know, maybe we'll get bigger eventually. That's probably not really helpful. And so if I could come with real clear plans, well, you know, I want to be able to have a fifth event that is an auction event. And I'm not doing that just yet, but I want that eventually and I want to know how you'll handle something like that. Or I want to get better at my communications and I want to learn more or just things like that. Kind of aligning your goals with where the software company as a whole is headed I think is really, really valuable.
- [40:19]
A
Those are really helpful and specific. I think also I would throw out there from my experience, talking to your peers, people that tend to work in nonprofit are really generous and they're happy to share with you. Like, oh, we just went through this process and here's what I learned. Or our CRM can do this thing that I didn't realize we were going to need it, but now we do. And so that's something you might want to ask about. I feel like in the for profit sector this is kind of frowned upon. There's like competition and proprietary information and all of this not so much like that in nonprofit, it's like people are very generous, very willing to share. I want to make one other point about, because you bring it up really in this answer, Julia. Often when we're looking at a nonprofit like, like purchasing a tool or a relationship management system that's going to live and grow with us, or hiring a consultant or partnering with someone to do something, the more clear we are able to be about what we need in any of those situations, better chance we are going to actually get it. Like I, I have seen in the past, some leaders think, and I've been tempted by this too. Oh, if I just get the right tool or the right consultant, I won't have to think about this so much. Like they will do it, they will figure it out and then it will just easy peasy. It really doesn't work that way. It's like, I mean let me know listeners if you know something out there that works that way. I would, I, I would love to know. But no, I've never hired a consultant where it's like, oh, you just do all the work and tell me. You know, it's like it is mutual. It really is. All of these things actually are a relationship and there's work for you to do on, on your end to make sure as, as Taylor Swift that you're not the problem. She doesn't say it that way. She says I'm the problem, not you. But anyway, you know what I mean. So that makes so much sense. I Julia, is there anything else you want our listeners to know about like shopping for a cr? I guess the. Let me just ask one more catch all question, then you can add anything you want. Would you say that the process for folks to follow when they think they need a CRM or they want to change CRMs is like, like make a list. That's the first thing I heard you say. Distinguish what are the wants or the must haves and, and what are the needs like you need to have and what are the wants the nice to have. And then you actually went and talked to people which sounds important but anything else about the process that you would, that you would recommend folks do?
- [43:12]
B
Yeah, I, I looked at a lot of reviews. I went to my like non profit groups. I think, you know, Leadership Lab has some conversation boards and again kind of as you said, looking to your peers for what's working for them. Another thing that's interesting in that same vein is looking to people who do work similar to your work. So if you're, you know, a food pantry, what other, what are other food pantries using and why are they using that? Why does it stand out to them, things like that? I think it's just a really valid process. And then actually the last step of my process is I had narrowed it down to two and I presented those two to my executive director and in the process of presenting, I decided which one I wanted because I had to like pitch them. And so when I was pitching the one I ended up with going going with which was donor perfect. When I was pitching donor perfect I was like this is what's right for us. And so it just felt like I could talk about donor perfect all day long. And this other one I didn't feel as connected to. So I think that was a good, like, practical implementation of using the CRM. That was kind of my last step in my decision.
- [44:37]
A
Yeah, that's helpful. I think anybody out there could follow that process and hopefully find a good match. Absolutely. Anything else you want to share, Julia, before we say goodbye?
- [44:51]
B
I mean, I think my biggest thing is just like, I just feel such a heart for our non profits, especially right now. And I think just like, as heartfelt as it can sound. Coming through podcast speakers, I just want to say, like, you are not alone and we're with you and there are people rooting for you and things are hard right now, but non profits are world changers and I. My heart is just like really breaking for a lot of things and I just want to give some encouragement that those who are doing this work every single day, in and out, sometimes aren't acknowledged. And yeah, I on a personal, professional and peer level and just so grateful for the work being done by nonprofits in our world. So thank you so much for those who are.
- [45:46]
A
Amen. Amen. Julia, we. What we like to say on this podcast is non profits are messy. And that is true. But what I would like to say on this episode is nonprofits are messy, but CRMs should not be messy. You need to find the right one for you. It should make things easier, not harder. So make sure you take the time to make the right choice because it really can help make things easier. And who, what nonprofit leader doesn't need that kind of support right now. So thank you for being on the podcast, Julia, and sharing all of your wisdom.
- [46:23]
B
Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Talk to you later.
- [46:33]
A
Thank you for spending time with us today. We hope this conversation provides valuable insights as you navigate the messy but meaningful world of nonprofits. A Special thanks to DonorPerfect for sponsoring this episode and for their dedication to empowering nonprofits like yours to do more good. For more resources to support your work, visit joengary.com podcast we think you'll find a lot of helpful things there. Most importantly, thank you for all you do to make the world a better place, one small or large step at a time. Talk to you all next time.