All Dogs Go To Therapy with Carvell Wallace

Summary

Podcast Summary: Normal Gossip — “All Dogs Go To Therapy”

Host: Rachel Hampton
Guest: Carvell Wallace
Date: December 3, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode of Normal Gossip features Rachel Hampton and celebrated author and podcaster Carvell Wallace dissecting a reader-submitted story of neighborly drama involving a $2,000 Tibetan mastiff named Ollie, disputes over home renovations, dog therapy, and a tit-for-tat battle in a close-knit Maryland suburb. The discussion unravels the layers of petty conflict and the true nature of gossip, capped by the guest’s deep musings and uproarious, empathetic commentary.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Importance & Ethics of Gossip

• Carvell on Gossip’s Role:

  • “I love gossip, and… I think of gossip as being an important part of people keeping each other safe… but I also like juicy tidbits about other people's fucking shortcomings because … it makes me feel better about myself.” (05:33)
  • “If you live by the gossip, you die by the gossip.” (06:49)

• Rachel’s Reflection:

  • “I really love how honest and transparent you're being, because I feel like sometimes people come on this show…but…that is not the primary reason that I am a gossip.” (06:49)

• On the Dangers of One-Sided Gossip:

  • Carvell and Rachel emphasize how stories get distorted (“as the game of telephone has gone on…”), and the importance of checking multiple sides before judging (51:11).

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2. Carvell’s LA Celebrity Gossip Story

• Story Beats: (07:58–13:28) Carvell shares a wild, secondhand story about a young actor’s erotic encounter with a memorabilia-collecting, conservative Hollywood “D-lister”, culminating in a possible but never realized tabloid exposure.

• Key Takeaway:
  Even messy stories can be left unresolved, and status sometimes protects people from backlash (“Call us back when you have Brad Pitt photos.” – Rachel, 12:31).

• Notable Quote:

  • “If you live by the gossip, you die by the gossip. Let it be what it is.” — Carvell (06:49)

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3. Main Gossip Story: Ollie the Tibetan Mastiff & the Neighborhood Wars

Setting the Scene:

• Quiet, densely packed Maryland suburb of Silver Spring (15:54).
• Newcomers Gabby and Mason move in, meet Ollie — a $2,000+ Tibetan mastiff with fancy outfits but poor training.

Gossip Breakdown:

• Ollie’s Mischief:

  • Ollie breaks into neighbors’ yards, barks incessantly, and is pampered (designer outfits, monogramming), but lacks boundaries due to owners’ struggles.
  • Ollie also has child fans in the neighborhood.

• Neighbor Hierarchies & Block Party:

  • Gabby and Mason try to ingratiate themselves with affluent, newly renovating neighbors Alice and Brian (power couples, surgeons, weight room, sauna envy). Rachel and Carvell riff on the social strategy (“I brought some salmon…” – Carvell, 25:20).

• Construction vs. Canine Anxiety:

  • Alice and Brian’s renovation disturbs Ollie, who receives regular therapy for his “noise anxiety” (barks at thunder, sirens, construction). Owners decline paid doggy daycare, cite separation anxiety, and request the remodel be delayed a year (33:06).

• Escalation:

  • Smiths (Ollie’s owners) demand higher fences, complain about builders, install blinding motion-activated floodlights facing Alice & Brian’s house (“It’s a petty-off now” – Carvell, 34:32).

The Nextdoor Disaster:

• Mason (trying to make new friends) volunteers to moderate the neighborhood's Nextdoor page — immediately lands in a power struggle with Mrs. Smith.

• Mason rejects her volunteer offer citing “impartiality” (43:22), sparking further escalation, emails, and the infamous threat: “perhaps you should consider asking your new friends about what happened in 99…” (45:46).

• Neighborhood Fallout:

  • Mason and Gabby join Alice & Brian on the Smiths’ “shit list”— including literal dog poop left uncollected in their yards (50:03).

Resolution: Chekhov’s (Mastiff with) Goggles

• Ollie’s new light sensitivity (caused by the floodlights) forces the Smiths to take down the motion sensors and petition the neighbors for yellow lightbulbs.
• City’s involvement reveals fence encroachment; Alice & Brian gain legal leverage, Smiths drop complaints, Ollie appears around the neighborhood in cute dog goggles (52:06–54:39).

Final Lessons & The Real Villains

• Carvell notes everyone’s complicity (“No one comes out of this blameless…” – 55:16), but faults Alice & Brian for omitting their own past lawsuit with the Smiths from 1999 (tree fell through window, legal battle).

• Key Reflection:

  • “Gossip is about what you leave out as much as what you include.”—Carvell (57:35)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Expensive Dogs:

  • Carvell: “You’re a dog, but… you seem like you think you’re better than I am… you’re asking me if I belong in this neighborhood.” (19:20)

• On Pet Pampering:

  • Rachel: “…Ollie did not cost that much, thankfully. But even on the cheaper end, Tibetan Mastiff puppies can run you upwards of $2,000. And I’m starting on the low end.” (20:13)

• On Passive-Aggression:

  • Carvell: “It’s a petty off now.” (34:32)
  • “You can just take that… It’s a no for me dog.” (33:41)

• On Nextdoor & Neighborhood Drama:

  • Carvell: “Nextdoor is a gathering place for the most insane behavior I’ve ever seen.” (40:38)

• On Alliances & Navigating Gossip:

  • Carvell: “You want to see if you can’t make some kind of halfway amends… This has clearly gotten out of hand.” (51:33)
  • Rachel: “Their first mistake was actually just trusting what Alice and Brian told them.” (51:42)

• On the True Nature of Villainy:

  • Carvell: “No one comes out of this blameless. But I think I’m gonna put it on the rich neighbors…who made…the most crucial set of malevolent actions…” (55:16)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Gossip philosophy & “live by the gossip…” (05:33–07:51)
• Carvell’s LA Threesome Celebrity Story (07:58–13:28)
• Main story introduction: Gabby, Mason, Ollie (15:54–16:54)
• Meeting Alice & Brian, social maneuvering (23:59–25:58)
• Ollie’s therapy & the Smiths’ demands (30:12–33:06)
• Construction feud & floodlights (34:24–34:54)
• Nextdoor meltdown, Mason’s blunder (41:21–44:27)
• Dog poop retribution and shit list (50:03)
• Light sensitivity/goggles & city involvement (52:02–54:39)
• The 1999 lawsuit, true origins of feud (56:02–57:35)
• Final thoughts on leaving out details in gossip (57:35–58:19)

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Conclusion

“All Dogs Go To Therapy” encapsulates everything beloved about Normal Gossip: outlandish but relatable neighbor drama, intricate social power plays, and a loving send-up of the ways ordinary people create—and escalate—petty feuds. Carvell Wallace’s astute, humorous, and empathetic takes add depth and hilarity, and the final lesson reminds listeners: in gossip, what’s left unsaid often matters most.

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For full context, listen starting at:

• 05:33 — Carvell’s take on gossip
• 07:58 — LA celebrity gossip story
• 15:54 — Main Maryland neighborhood saga begins
• 30:12 — Ollie’s dog therapy & escalation
• 41:21 — Nextdoor drama unfolds
• 52:02 — Ollie’s goggles incident
• 56:02 — The 1999 lawsuit comes to light

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“Gossip is about what you leave out as much as what you include.”
—Carvell Wallace (57:35)

Transcript

[A]

Hey, it's Alex Sujong Laughlin, and I am here with the Rachel Hampton of Normal Gossip.

[B]

Hello. Hello, Alex.

[A]

And I'm also here with Patrick Redford of Only if youf Get Caught. Hi, Patty.

[C]

Howdy. How we doing?

[A]

So we're all here together because the annual Radiotopia fundraiser is upon us, and we are still trying to reach 1500 donors by the end of the year. So Radiotopia is the network that sells our ads, that does our marketing. Rachel, what does it mean to you to be a part of an independent network?

[B]

I mean, I think it means mostly, and most importantly to me, a lot of editorial freedom. I love that. I'm not beholden to anyone. When we're scheduling how many seasons we do every year or how many episodes we want to make, we get to make the show that is the most sustainable for us and that allows us to make the best version of the show possible. Huge.

[A]

I totally agree. I think that something that I have really appreciated about Radiotopia is that they give us total control over what advertisers we say yes and no to. So, like, in the past, we've had advertisers that we've worked with who then maybe we hear from our audience that, you know, they're not so into them, and we can go back to Radiotopia and say, hey, we. We don't want to do that anymore. And I think not a lot of podcasts have that kind of autonomy over who is advertising for them, which is really cool.

[B]

Definitely. And it means that the things that we do advertise, we actually tend to enjoy.

[D]

Shocker.

[A]

Patrick, tell me, what does being independent mean to you?

[C]

Well, this is maybe a sort of oblique answer, but, like, in sports media specifically over the past few years, everyone is, like, underwritten by a gambling company. And you can just see when there's these big stories, you know, cheating adjacent about gambling and sports that, like, so much of media is, like, compromised. And it's such a breath of fresh air to, like, not have to deal with that, to just know that, like, whatever we put out there is, like, our own thoughts. There's no, like, intervening layer of owners or advertisers. And hopefully that comes through to the viewer. Like, hopefully you see that, like, you know, there's a certain level of honesty that we can bring to this.

[A]

So if you love this show and you want shows like ours to exist and thrive, help our podcast neighbors at Radiotopia by donating at Radiotopia fm. Donate. Thank you so much.

[E]

Free audio post production by alphonic.com.

[B]

Hello, and welcome to Normal Gossip. I am your host, Rachel Hampton, and in each episode of this podcast, we're gonna bring you an anonymous morsel of gossip from the real world. Welcome to episode four, y'. All. We are somehow already almost halfway through season nine. I know. I can hear y' all screaming. No. From thousands of miles away. But what that means is that we are already thinking about Season 10, which will air sometime in the first half of 2026. Ten seasons of normal Gossip. Can you believe it? Internally, we've been calling next season All Stars, which means we're looking to get the absolute best of the best in terms of both gossip and guests. So if you've been holding out on submitting a story, please send it to [e-mail] and if you've got some absolute dream guests that you want to appear on the show, tell us. But also, please start making noise in their various comment sections. Like, we have gotten so many requests for Caleb Heron, who, I agree would be an iconic guest, and we have reached out. So I think the next step is y' all spamming him until he says yes. Respectfully, of course. We are not doing harassment campaigns around here. Just say Normal Gossip tonight, King, please. Thank you. One last piece of housekeeping. This is the first episode of December, which means that for the rest of the month, I'm going to be reminding y' all that the Normal Gossip team has got a little break coming up. We won't be publishing during the weeks of Christmas and New Year, but have no fear, we'll be back in your fees with fresh Gossip within the first full week of 2026. So our last episode for this year, not this season, but this year, is on December 17th, and then we come back on January 7th. Okay, that is everything for today. Now time for the gossip, y'. All. One of the absolute best parts of this job is getting to chop it up with people whose work I've respected from afar for years, which is why today's episode holds a special place in my heart. Our guest today is Carvel Wallace, a New York Times bestselling author and host of Slate's How To Podcast. His work has appeared in the New Yorker, gq, the New York Times Magazine, Pitchfork, and so many other place. He has profiled everyone from Michael B. Jordan to Samuel L. Jackson to Viola Davis to Mahershala Ali. And the thing is, I could keep going. Carvel is an icon. So thank you, Carvel, for joining me. Hello.

[E]

I'm so happy to be Here. I'm so excited.

[B]

I'm so excited both for this story and to be reunited to talk about gossip. You had me on your show how To a few months ago to teach people how to gossip, and that was such a fun conversation, but I feel like we didn't actually get into your relationship with gossip during that recording. So the microphone's on you now. What is your relationship to gossip?

[E]

I love gossip. Like, I mean, as much as anyone. Like, I. I love gossip, and we talked about this on how to. But, like, I think of gossip as being an important part of people keeping each other safe. I'm thinking of this one time where another content person had called me up and was like, yo, this person has reached out to me to find out if they want to work with me. But I want to know your thought. Like, you have rocked with this person or at least been in the same spaces with them. What is the real. And I let them know all the dirt. Like, first they did this, then they were on some bullshit about this, just so they know I'm just like, you can do it, but go in with eyes wide open. Know what this person is about. You know what I'm saying? So to me, that's like, the important, helpful kind of gossip. But I also just like hearing juicy tidbits about other people's fucking shortcomings because I think probably, you know, I like it for, like, not honorable reasons. I like it because I'm like, oh, my God, that person is so messy. I would never do that. Ugh. But so it makes me feel better about myself. But I also know that I have been on the receiving end of gossip and, like, stories about me exist that aren't accurate. As the game of telephone has gone on, they become more whatever. So, like, charge it to the game. It's like, you know, if you live by the gossip, you die by the gossip. Let it be what it is.

[B]

That is a beautiful phrase that I would be stealing. If you live by the gossip, you die by the gossip. I really love how honest and transparent you're being, because I feel like sometimes people come on this show and they're like, well, gossip has this, like, historical relevance to marginalized communities, which is very true, to be clear. But it makes me feel bad about myself because that is not the primary reason that I am a gossip.

[E]

No, I feel the same. Like, I really can't imagine anyone who doesn't like gossip. Anybody who says that, I think they might be just, like, virtue signaling a little bit. Like, you know, I can recognize that it's not ideal. I can recognize that. Too much gossip, like, living too much in other people's stories. Living too much in that idea of, like, me feeling like I'm better than other people. I can see how taken to an extreme, that doesn't serve me. But I'm gonna engage a little bit at least. Like, we gotta get through the day. Like, what are we doing? You know what I'm saying? So tell me about the messy shit that went on.

[B]

Yes, yes. Okay. I could talk about this forever with you, but a little birdie told me that you have some gossip to tell me.

[E]

Oh, my God. So I went to high school in la. I went to an arts high school. I was in a theater program. And so living in LA in high school and being around the industry and then later going back in my 30s and being in that scene, I encountered a lot of weird celebrity stuff. And so this story, my friend's boyfriend told me this story and they're no longer together, which is why I can't go back and confirm certain details, because I sort of lost him in the friend breakout. But he told me that when he was in LA in his 20s and he was a young actor about town, he was into some freaky stuff. Like he would meet up with people and have these events and these affairs and stuff like that. And so he was on this website for people who want to do some group play stuff, and he met this couple and they seemed really hot and they DMed a couple of times and they decide to meet up. So they're looking for a third. So he goes to meet with the couple. It's a man and a woman, and they're kind of from a small town and they both moved to LA together and the man's career sort of took off. So he goes to meet this couple and they have a whole interaction and everyone has a great time. Joy is had by all, et cetera. And to memorialize it, they take photos, videos, pictures, so people can, like, enjoy the memories, so to speak. I'm trying to be delicate about how I talk about it. And they had a great time. The guy was into it, the other guy was into it, the wife was into it, everyone's lovely. So my friend goes his separate ways and is like, that was a great evening. So a couple days later, the guy reaches out to him and is like, hey, I had a great time, man. And he's like, yeah, me too. He's like, hey, do you want to come, like, do it again? Like, maybe come meet me, like, at my office. And so my friend is like, yeah, that was cool. I was into our energy, too, even within this threesome. So he goes to meet the guy at his office, and he tells me that the guy was, like, a memorabilia collector, and so he had all this old Hollywood memorabilia. So they end up doing these sex acts in front of whatever Humphrey Bogart's guy likes.

[B]

The Blanco post.

[E]

Just totally surreal experience. So he does him and this guy get into it. They're doing it, they're having a good time. And then at the end, after it's over, they're sitting and chatting in the afterglow. And the actor, he's like, listen, by the way, just don't tell my wife about this. And my friend's like, wait, what do you mean? He's like, well, she doesn't really want me to play on the side, you know? So she's like, not into that. And my friend is like, bro, what the fuck? Like, why would you invite me over under these circumstances and not tell me? Like, why? Like, I'm now complicit in your bullshit? And also, why would you do this to your wife? She's hella cool. She's clearly into all this type of stu. She's down to clown. She just has one little rule, and you need to break that rule. Like, you kind of suck. So my friend is starting to feel weird. And then here he is looking at, like, whatever. Like this? Yeah, like the mask from, like, some 1930s horror movie. And so he's like, yeah, he starts to feel a little ill at ease. So I gotta go, man. I'm leaving. So the friend, they get dressed. The friend's walking him out down the hallway of his office. And then he notices that, like, there's all these, like, photographs of political figures, like Richard Nixon, all these conservative figures. And so my friend is like, wait a second. Are you, like, a conservative? He's like, oh, yeah, I'm like a Republican. I'm a conservative. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I believe in conservative values. I believe in the church. And my friend is like, what the f. Like, in his mind. So he leaves. He's driving home down the freeway, and he's turning this over, and he's like, this guy sucks. Like, he cheats on his wife. He's clearly a hypocrite. Like, blah, blah, blah, you know? And so, like, he's kind of perseveres on what to do about this for a while. And then he remembers that he has these photographs and these videos, and he has A friend who works at, like, a gossip magazine, and he's thinking about turning this stuff over. And he told me this story as it was happening. And I don't know if he ever turned it over or not, but I know that he was really thinking about it, like, just being like, I'm going to out this guy. Like, I'm gonna blow this guy up. Like, I was waiting every day for it to be a scandal so I could be like, ha, ha, that son of a bitch. But it never happened. But there's also the possibility that it didn't happen because the guy was like. Even though he was, like, a working actor who made enough money to have a nice house where he did, he also was not that big of a deal. So couldn't you see that they got the pictures and were like, yeah, we don't care. We don't care that this, like, D list. Or.

[B]

They'Re like, call us back when you have Brad Pitt photos.

[E]

Exactly. But I think about that story all if I'm more weirded out by his need to break the boundaries.

[B]

Yes, yes. That was also what I was focusing on, is it's so illustrative of someone's personality when they have all this freedom and they choose to break the one rule that someone has. Not because they feel like the rule is unfair. It doesn't even feel like it's a fairness thing. It's just because they wanna test someone's boundary. And it's like, why do you feel the need to trespass on other people's boundaries when you have all this open space to do what you want?

[E]

That's what I'm saying. It's so weird. And, like, if that is a deal breaker for you, if you're like, listen, I've gotta be able to get my little thing on the side, then you need to have that conversation. And if your partner is like, no, that's a deal breaker for me, then you've gotta just be like, well, I think the deal is broken. Like, you gotta decide if you want this thing or if you want that thing.

[B]

Wow, Carvel. I'm gonna be thinking about that gossip forever.

[E]

And if.

[B]

If in five years, this person ends up on the front page of New York Post, please, please email me.

[E]

I would love that. That would be so good.

[B]

The way I'm gonna be asking for this actor's name after this recording. But I have a story for you now.

[E]

Oh, yes.

[B]

Are you ready?

[E]

I'm ready.

[B]

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[D]

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[D]

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[B]

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[D]

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[B]

Our link so they know we sent you. Today's story takes place in a quiet little neighborhood in Silver Springs, Maryland. It is the 2000 and tens, and at this point in time, the residents of this neighborhood are pretty evenly split between, like, old timers who bought their houses cheap in the 70s and 80s and new young families who are looking for, like, home equity and good schools.

[E]

My brother lives in Silver Spring.

[B]

Oh, wow. Yeah.

[E]

Yeah. So I know the scene incredible.

[B]

Well, one important thing to know about this neighborhood is that the houses are really close together. Like they're maybe about 10ft apart, so everyone kind of knows each other. Personally, I feel like there's a really delicate balancing act of how close you want to get to someone that you can't help running into. But I wanted to ask, are you someone who tries to get to know their neighbors and how do you go about that?

[E]

No, I am not someone who tries to.

[B]

You said no.

[E]

That'S end of story. No, I don't avoid. I try to have kind, caring, working, loving relationships with my neighbors. Like, if the shit goes down, we have each other's back. That's the level I want to be at with my neighbors. But is it like a sitcom where we're bursting into each other's houses and stuff and involved in the same dramas? No, that's not. We're not doing that.

[B]

It's not giving Steve Urkel and the Winslows.

[E]

It's not giving Steve. It's not giving Urkel coming over. It's not giving Kramer bursting down the door. No, it's not. I don't. I don't do that. But I do like that. I like my neighbors. I have really great neighbors now. They seem really cool, but, you know, we see each other to see each other. We tell each other when it's street sweeping, whatever. Like, it's like that level of stuff that's.

[B]

I feel like a really good level to be at. Our friend refend today feels a little bit differently than I think either one of us do. Her name is Gabby, and Gabby, along with her partner Mason, are new residents of this neighborhood. Gabby and Mason are both in their mid-30s. They had moved from Chicago cause Gabby had gotten a job at the Government Accountability Office and she had always dreamed of working in our nation's capital.

[E]

No comment.

[B]

This was the Obama era. Hope, optimism, change, long moral arc of the universe bending towards progress.

[E]

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

We were on some different shit then.

[E]

So I get it.

[B]

Gabby's exact excited about working in D.C. but she and Mason had also really loved their life in Chicago. Their apartment building, everyone knew them. Like they had thrown them a surprise party to leave, like a surprise going away party. So Gabby and Mason are like, we know we won't be able to immediately replicate this dynamic when we move to our new neighborhood, but they have high hopes. It helps that their move goes really smoothly. All their stuff from Chicago arrives quickly and not broken. Which I think is very rare for interstate moves. So they're settling in, they're unpacking, they're starting to scope out their neighbors. And it's only a couple days after they move that they are introduced to their most important neighbor. Ollie. Ollie is a dog. And the best way to describe Ollie is have you Ever seen a dog that just looks expensive?

[E]

Yes. Oh, yes.

[B]

How would you describe an expensive looking dog?

[E]

They're judging you. You're like, you're a dog, but you seem like you think you're better than I am. Like, you. You know what I mean? Like, you're asking me if I belong in this neighborhood. Like, why? Like, I'm saying, like, I have two legs, bro. Like, I have opposable thumbs. Like, I pay taxes, you know?

[B]

Yeah, y' all pay taxes.

[E]

Like, why are you looking at me like that? Yeah, I know exactly what it is.

[B]

Yeah. So this is the kind of dog Ollie is. Ali belongs to Gabby and Mason's next door neighbors. And Ali is a Tibetan mastiff. Ooh.

[E]

Huge, right?

[B]

Exactly. Huge dog. Very expensive dog as well. Apparently in 2011, a purebred Tibetan Mastiff was sold for $1.5 million.

[E]

Oh, my God. Yeah, people are starving. But that's fine. Like, get yourself a $1.5 million dog. Be my guest. Don't feed anybody.

[B]

No.

[E]

Don't feed any children.

[B]

Not at all.

[E]

Get a dog.

[B]

Get a dog, get a dog. Exactly. Ollie did not cost that much, thankfully. But even on the cheaper end, Tibetan Mastiff puppies can run you upwards of $2,000. And I'm starting on the low end. And that is just the beginning. They've got a double coat, so they have to be groomed regularly. And traditionally, they're working dogs, which means that if you don't train them really well, AKA spend more money on them, they can be really, really destructive.

[E]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Let's just say it's clear that Gabby Mason's neighbors spent more money on the little outfit that Ollie wears. And they spent on his training.

[E]

Okay, all right, I see where this is going.

[B]

And listen, the outfits, they're really fucking cute. He's got a coat, he's got boots for when it rains. All of his clothes are monogrammed with his name.

[E]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So cute. What's less cute is when he breaks into Gabby and Mason's backyard to roll around in their trash. Or the fact that Tibetan mastiffs are known to be a vocal breed of dog, especially at night.

[E]

Oh, no.

[B]

And Ollie's got lungs like Mariah Carey.

[E]

I just imagine Ollie just hitting, like, whistle notes, doing hella runs, being like.

[B]

Damn. Exactly. Exactly. You ate that.

[E]

Like, low key.

[B]

So he's just. He's always barking. Mailman barking, squirrel barking. A particularly large leaf blowing in the wind barking. So you're new to the neighborhood. How do you handle your neighbor's Very large but poorly trained dog.

[E]

Mm, that's a shame. All that money and no home training.

[B]

Yes, Exactly.

[E]

Can't buy class. I mean, this is one of those questions where you have to understand the limits of your power. Like, I'm not a dog trainer, so I don't know how to make the dog stop being that way. So it's not within my power to do that. I'm definitely gonna talk to my neighbors about it. Like, definitely.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

They should know that this is a problem. This is an untenable situation.

[B]

Part of the problem also is that but Ollie is such a sweet dog. Like, they don't want to call animal control on him because he's so cute. And he's also really, really good with kids. Like Gabby and Mason sometimes see the little kids in the neighborhood riding around on his massive back.

[E]

Aw.

[B]

Exactly.

[E]

No, I didn't need that piece of information. Now I'm on Ollie's side. Now I'm like, get these people out of your way, Ollie. Sing sing, Ollie.

[B]

So our a friend of her friends just got here. They don't wanna make a fuss. And they also very quickly figure out that Ollie's owners are older. Like they're in their 60s or 70s. So Gabby and Mason are just like. Ollie is probably just too big for them to handle. Like, Tibetan mastiffs can weigh up to £150.

[E]

Yikes.

[B]

Yeah. So the immediate term thing that Gabby and Mason decide to do is get a lock for their trash can.

[E]

Uh huh, sure.

[B]

Uh huh. And they're also like, we have bigger fish to fry. Because about a month after they move in, their neighborhood throws a block party. And it's like a proper big block party. Apparently this neighborhood has this party every summer. So they've got like, the city permit process down. The streets are blocked off so the kids can play and ride their bikes. There's a bouncy house everyone's grilling, including the couple on the other side of Ollie and his owners, who are named Alice and Brian. Ooh.

[E]

A new bombshell has entered the villa.

[B]

Exactly. So just to be clear on the layout, it's our friends Gabby and Mason in one house. Then Ollie and his owner is in the middle, and then Alice and Brian. So if Gabby and Mason had a power ranking for potential new neighborhood best friends, which they don't, because that would be weird. They wouldn't do that. But should a hypothetical power ranking exist like that? Alice and Brian at the top of the list. Alice and Brian are both in their 50s. They're both surgeons. Their Last kid had just graduated college. So Alice and Brian have a little. A lot of disposable income right now, which they are using to remodel their house. And if Gabby had not guessed from their jobs that Alice and Brian had money, she would have been able to guess after seeing the renovation. The weight room has just been finished, and it's got a deadlift platform and a squat rack.

[E]

Okay. All right.

[B]

Gabby's pretty sure she saw the construction crew break ground on what looked like a sauna in the backyard.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

You can maybe understand why Alice and Brian are at the top of the power ranking.

[E]

I'm trying to be friends with these people.

[B]

Well, it's a block party. Your rich neighbors that you desperately want to be friends with are grilling in their front yard. What's your strategy?

[E]

The thing that just popped in my head when you mentioned the other neighbors is I don't know why I didn't think of this. The other thing I would do with the Ollie situation is I would talk to other neighbors, because strength in numbers, I can't deal with this alone. I'm gonna go to them and be like, hey, is this a thing for you guys? What do you think we should do? Because me going up to this couple and trying to fix things is different than the whole neighborhood sitting down and having something of an intervention. Like the intervention strategy. So this is two birds, one stone, for sure, in my opinion. You go over, I saunter over. What are you grilling? Hey, I brought some salmon, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, let's dough, let's chop it up. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. You and Gabby and Mason are on the same page. Gabby and Mason decides to go the direct route. Go big or go home. Right? So within an hour of Brian lighting this grill, Gabby and Mason exit their house with two six packs of a craft lager from a beloved local brewery that they just happen to have on hand.

[E]

Just happened.

[A]

And.

[B]

And Gabby's famous red velvet cheesecake brownies that she just happened to be making that weekend.

[E]

Wow. What a coincidence.

[B]

What a coincidence. These two, they are in it to win it. And Alice and Brian are more than happy to be won over. When Gabby starts talking about how good the house looks with the renovation, Alice immediately invites her inside to tour the house. The kitchen that Alice shows her, that's a goddamn masterpiece. It's got an eight burner gas range.

[E]

Oh, my God, two ovens.

[B]

You can't even see the fridge because it's paneled to look like the cabinets Gabby is like drooling right now. She's like, alice, you have such great taste.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

Alice is delighted, as we all are when complimented. She's like, we'll have to have you both over for dinner sometime. And then she's like, I hope the construction hasn't been too disruptive for you too. We'll be done after the sauna's installed. Thank God.

[E]

The opening. The door is open now.

[B]

Exactly. Gabby is like, no, it's been totally fine. Which she would have said even if Alice had not just confirmed that there is indeed a sauna being installed. Gabby had actually barely noticed the construction. Like, the crew arrives when she and Mason are leaving for work and they're gone by the time they get back. Which is what Gabby tells Alice, who looks relieved. Alice is like, the renovation has taken so much longer than we thought it would. Thankfully, though, most of the neighbors have been understanding.

[D]

Ooh, Ooh.

[E]

I like where this is going.

[B]

Yeah. How should Gabby play this?

[E]

Most of the neighbors have been understanding my. I mean, I'm an interviewer by trade. I'm going to ask a follow up question right there. The door has been left open. I generally believe that when people say sentences like that, they're saying it because they want you to inquire a little more deeply. Right. Otherwise they would be like, it's fine. Everyone's great. That's a door closed. But most of the neighbors have been fine. Is a door left slightly ajar? You're welcome to peek in if you'd like. So at this point, I see the two agendas aligning and I go, really? Like, who else? Like, who hasn't been? I mean, you know what I mean? Let's talk more about that. And then I'm praying to God that it's gonna be all these people who have a problem. I'm praying. And if it is, jackpot.

[B]

We truly approach the gossiping form. So similarly.

[E]

Yes. Yes.

[B]

And so does Gabby. Cause Gabby once again decides to go the direct route. She's like most. That is enough for Alice to start talking. In fact, Alice pours Gabby a glass of wine.

[E]

Mm, Girl.

[B]

Before asking, do you know the Smiths? Gabby's like, the band. And Alice is like, no, Morrissey and them.

[E]

I mean, a little in high school, I guess.

[B]

No, exactly. Alice is like, no, that's cute. I'm talking about the couple that owns Ali. And at this, Gabby is immediately like, yes, we live on the other side of them. I didn't know their names, but yes, I know them up until this point. Gabby has been under the impression that the reason Ali acts like that is because the Smiths are just somewhat negligent dog owners. She learns from Alice that that is not the case. In fact, it is the exact opposite. Apparently Ollie is too special to be taken to a trainer who would just force him to conform to whatever made up standards they design for lesser dog breeds.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

Instead, Ollie sees a therapist.

[E]

Okay.

[B]

Which is how the Smiths know that Ollie has anxiety. Specifically noise anxiety. That's why he barks so much. Ali's anxiety is triggered by noises such as thunder, woodpeckers, children playing basketball on the street, fireworks. Sirens. And construction.

[E]

And construction.

[B]

How would you expect people like the Smiths to react to their neighbors embarking on a months long renovation project?

[E]

Okay, I'm putting my. I'm putting on. I'm in the Smiths hat now. I'm probably feeling triggered by the fact that these people are triggering my dog's anxiety.

[B]

Yeah.

[E]

Assuming I'm this kind of person, I'm leaning back in a chair with my arms crossed going, if you want my dog to be quiet, maybe your construction can wrap up. That's me. I'm petting.

[B]

You said mutually assured destruction or nothing else.

[E]

Mutually assured distraction. Looks like we have ourselves a little standoff.

[B]

I love that you're playing both sides.

[E]

Oh, yeah. I have to. I'm a Libra, so it's. You know what I'm saying.

[B]

Okay. You know what I'm saying?

[E]

So I'm gonna move from side to side. I'm gonna try to understand everybody's point of view. Let me see. Let me see where these. Where these spits are at. Let me see what the world looks like from their point of view.

[B]

That also explains why you're so good at gossiping. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Alice and Brian have been neighbors with the Smiths for over two decades at this point, which is more than long enough to guess that the Smiths and Ollie were gonna be a problem. Yeah. So before they'd even started on their remodel, Alice and Brian made sure to alert all their neighbors about the construction crew who would be working between the hours of 8am and 3pm the remodel was scheduled to last only a couple months, as long as everything stayed on schedule, which renovations are famously known to do. And Alice and Brian had thrown in a little special deal just for the Smiths and Ollie, who Alice and Bryan recognized would be uniquely impacted by their remodel. So to make the renovation easier for Ollie to bear, Alice and Bryan offered to foot the Bill for Ollie to go to doggy daycare for the duration of the remodel.

[E]

Look at that. Wow, that is a generous offer.

[B]

I also, I also think that's very generous. Honestly, overly generous if you ask me. But I don't have remodel money, so I don't really know what this tax bracket is up to. This turns out not to matter because apparently Ali doesn't just have noise anxiety, he also has separation anxiety. And the Smith said Ali is an older dog. These are his golden years. They should be spent in the comfort of his home, not at some dingy doggy daycare.

[E]

Okay, now please get a grip. Like, can we be serious for one second here, folks?

[B]

But don't worry, the Smiths have a solution, okay? If Alice and Brian postpone their remodel by a year, that would give the Smiths enough time to work with Ollie's therapist and his vet to prepare him for such a stress inducing situation as this remodel. Alice and Brian have been waiting since their kids were in middle school to do this renovation. So they're like, sorry, but yeah, that's not.

[E]

Yeah, that's a no go.

[B]

Exactly.

[E]

You can just take that.

[B]

They said it's a no for me dog, but we promise it's only gonna take a few months. And they say should the Smiths change their mind, the offer to send Ollie to doggy daycare stands. Take it up whenever you want. From there, it was basically open warfare. The Smiths had demanded that Alice and Brian replace the fence between them with a taller one before construction started, which fin that was probably best for everyone involved. But then the Smiths start harassing Alison, Brian and the construction crew about anything and everything. Like, if the crew even arrives, not starts working, but arrives in the neighborhood before 8 on the dot, Mr. Smith is banging on Alice and Brian's door.

[E]

Come on.

[B]

At one point, the Smiths had even tried to get one of the trucks of the construction crew towed.

[E]

It's a petty off now, but it.

[B]

Is the most recent development that has really threatened to drive Alice insane. Alice is like, let me tell you about the lights. Normal gossip is sponsored by AT&T, who believe that hearing a voice can change everything.

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[B]

It's getting to be that time of year where I guess it's time to.

[D]

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[B]

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[D]

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[B]

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[D]

The goal when I think of it.

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[D]

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[B]

Go to RocketMoney.comGossip today. That's RocketMoney.comGossip RocketMoney.comGossip. Gabby's like, wait, you mean the motion sensor lights? Cause everyone in the neighborhood knows about these lights on the Smith's house. They are bright as hell. Like, as bright as the headlights on new cars.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

And they're motion activated, so they're not even on consistently. They just go on and off all night.

[E]

Yeah. Like any chipmunk.

[B]

And it's like, exactly.

[E]

Searchlights. Exactly.

[B]

The Smiths had had them installed just before Gabby and Mason had moved in. In fact, the lights had been installed just a couple days after Alice and Brian had had to tell the Smiths.

[D]

That their construction crew was a few weeks behind schedule.

[E]

Ooh.

[B]

Does this seem like a coincidence to you?

[E]

No, no, no. We know who the villain is here. We know who the villains are.

[B]

Yeah, this doesn't seem like a coincidence to Alice or Brian either. Even though the Smiths had apparently insisted that the lights had nothing to do with them. The lights were for Ollie. He developed a fear of the dark. And the motion sensor lights were for when he let himself out at night so he wouldn't be scared.

[E]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[B]

This explanation is not persuasive to Alice and Brian, especially because the motion sensor lights are only on one side of the Smith's house, exactly the side they share with Alice and Brian. Gabby is reeling from this lore drop. She is like, I cannot wait to tell Mason about this. She's feeling really proud of herself. Her and Mason's hypothetical power ranking that definitely does not exist was right on the money. Alison, Brian not only have a sauna, they've got gossip. Like, what's better than this? They picked the best friends to have in the neighborhood. After the block party is over, Gabby and Mason are back in their house, depriving their day. Gabby is telling Mason about the Smith and Ali's therapy, and Mason is immediately on Alice and Brian's side. Is it? Cause Brian invited Mason to come work out with him and a few of the other guys in the neighborhood on Friday mornings in the fancy new gym that just got finished.

[E]

Yeah, Man Meet Monday.

[B]

Who could say it's after one of these Man Meet Mondays that Mason makes what I consider to be the first of several mistakes. Before we get into those mistakes, though, how do you feel about the app Nextdoor?

[E]

Okay. I mean, obviously Nextdoor is insane. It's a gathering place for the most insane behavior I've ever seen. And I actually just rejoined Nextdoor, not from my neighborhood, but from my friend's neighborhood. They were back home visiting their family, and they were like, I don't know what's going on. There's, like sirens outside and some guy is shirtless running from a van. Like, what is happening? And I was like, oh, I'm gonna go in next door and see if I can find anything. So I joined Nextdoor for this random neighborhood in the suburbs of LA that I have never lived in. And I open up every day and just see all the drama happening in this neighborhood. And it's so funny. It's a source of gossip for me, it is.

[B]

I downloaded Nextdoor for the first time once last year. Cause I kept seeing these two dogs in my neighborhood that just didn't have collars. And I live in Brooklyn, and I'm like, whose dogs are these? And Nextdoor was fucking useless, let me tell you.

[E]

Oh, my God.

[B]

I got no help. And they still send me email notifications to this day. I'm like, oh, every day. No, it's really crazy. I am told that in the early days of Nextdoor, like, it launched in 2011, I'm told it was far more useful and, like, less cop adjacent back then.

[E]

I was on it in 2011, in 2012. Like, I was on it right when it opened. And no, it was immediately was there then.

[B]

There's no justification for why our friend Mason decides to volunteer to help moderate this neighborhood's next door page.

[E]

I get it. He's trying to, like, be of service. You can't see the face I made.

[B]

I know. I was like, our listeners did not see the face he just made. Well, also, one of the guys who comes to Brian's Manmeet Mondays is a moderator of the Next door page. And he seems really quite. And also, Mason really wants to impress Brian. And Brian is so community minded, you know, you can tell because he lets Mason use his gym. Mason volunteers to moderate the neighborhood next door page. This is mistake number one. And to Mason's credit, he figures this out pretty quickly. This Next door page, like, most of them has staffing issues as soon as they get one person to volunteer, someone else quits. Probably because the work is both thankless and unpaid.

[E]

Yes.

[B]

Mason even tries to get Gabby to join him, and she just laughs in his face. So Mason decides to ask for volunteers on the next door page. And as luck would have it, exactly one person responds.

[E]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Can you guess who it is?

[E]

I don't know which one of the Smiths, but it's one of the Smiths, correct?

[B]

Yeah, it's Mrs. Smith.

[E]

Uh huh.

[B]

The enemy of Mason's new best friend, Brian. And this is maybe why Mason makes mistake number two. And I'm gonna be honest, what happens next is absolutely wild, even to me.

[E]

Wow.

[B]

Mason decides to respond to Mrs. Smith, and he writes, I appreciate your offer to volunteer, especially since no one else has. However, we are looking for impartial volunteers to act as moderators, and households involved in conflict in the neighborhood will not be accepted. I'm gonna have to decline your help.

[E]

Oh, my God. Political awareness zero on this guy. What?

[B]

I know.

[E]

Like, just think A, move ahead, Mason. Just one move ahead.

[B]

This is truly cuckoo bananas to me. The response you just had is exactly the response that Gabby had. When Mason tells her that he did this, Gabby's like, why? A, what the fuck is wrong with you? B, why the fuck didn't you tell me?

[E]

Oh my God.

[B]

Did she reply? What did she say? Mason's like, she offered to stop by to talk this over in person.

[E]

She's coming over with guns. He's gonna get jumped. Mason's about to get jumped by an old lady.

[B]

Before Mason could even reply, there was a knock on the front door. Mm.

[E]

Mm. She ran over there.

[B]

Mason's like, I turned all the lights off and hid in the basement.

[E]

No. Oh, no. Oh, okay.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, go on. This is where Gabby finds him. So they're together when Ms. Smith messages Mason again. Ms. Smith is like, although you might be the moderator of this page, you are not the gatekeeper of the neighborhood. We are equals. My offer to volunteer is not yours to decline. Ooh.

[E]

Ooh.

[B]

Furthermore, Ms. Smith continues. Mason hadn't even bothered to speak to her or her husband about their issues with Alison Bryan. So whatever he thinks he knows is one sided at best and slander at worst. In fact, none of this is even his business, given how recently he had moved to the neighborhood. The neighborhood Ms. Smith had been living in for going on three decades. Ms. Smith is like, perhaps you should consider asking your new friends about what happened in 99 before you start making judgments.

[E]

Uh, oh.

[B]

And then she says she no longer feels comfortable volunteering her time to moderate the nextdoor page. Given the hostility she has been received with, however, more discussion will be forthcoming.

[D]

Ooh. Ooh.

[E]

She got a little backbone. Mason did not sleep well that night. I know. Mason was tossing and turning that night.

[B]

What options do you think our friends have here?

[E]

Mason's gotta make this right. Like, he's gotta apologize. Like, this is not me. Like, my bad. Like, how can we make this right?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Gabby is like, I really wish you had talked to me before you sent that email.

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

But she's like, here we are. So she helps Mason craft a response, and the response goes like, you know what? You're right. This is actually none of my business. In this kind of situation, there's no real right or wrong. And Mason certainly didn't mean to imply that the Smiths were in the wrong. What he meant to say he did was that he would prefer to have a co admin who didn't have any ongoing conflicts with any of their neighbors, even if they were totally understandable conflicts. Luckily, a few more neighbors had inquired about volunteering. This is a lie, by the way. So Mason was able to fill the position. He apologizes profusely for the trouble. And from here, Gabby and Mason hope that the Smiths drop it.

[E]

Do you think the Smiths drop it? These vindictive people? The same people who installed like. Like, high beam floodlights on one side of the house. Just. No, I don't think the Smiths are gonna drop it.

[B]

Yeah. Ms. Smith responds like, your language demonstrates that you yourself are not able to be neutral, which some might say makes you unqualified for the position you hold.

[E]

Mm.

[B]

Furthermore. Cause Ms. Smith loves her. Furthermore. So, furthermore, Ms. Smith writes, I've spoken to other concerned parties in the neighborhood who were dismayed by Mason's response.

[E]

Dismayed.

[B]

Ms. Smith says she will let those other concerned parties speak for themselves in person should they wish to do so.

[E]

Ooh.

[B]

What this means is that for the next few weeks, Mason is terrified every time he leaves his house that he's gonna be accosted by a boomer. And then there is the fact that exactly 48 hours after Ms. Smith sends her last email, which Mason does not reply to, by the way. So 48 hours after that last email, motion sensor lights are installed on the side of the house that the Smith share with Gabby Mason.

[E]

Straight out of the playbook. These people are consistent. You gotta give them that.

[B]

It's true. It's true. Points for consistency. At this point, Mason's like, okay, you know what? Being a volunteer admin for a Nextdoor page is not worth this trouble. More accurately, Gabby is like, fix this or else I will not be eating my dinner under floodlights.

[E]

Mm.

[B]

So the first thing Mason does is install blackout curtains throughout the house. And then he tries to step down from his position as moderator with the thought that this would appease the Smiths. Which is a good thought.

[E]

Uh huh.

[B]

We'll never really know because you remember those staffing issues I mentioned?

[E]

Yeah.

[B]

They haven't gotten any better.

[E]

Yeah, of course not.

[B]

And according to help.nextdoor.com, quote if you are a group admin, you will need to promote another neighbor to the group admin position before you step down. End quote.

[E]

No. No. Oh my God.

[B]

So Mason is stuck being a moderator until he can find someone else to replace him. Which is getting harder and harder by the day because everyone in the neighborhood has seemingly heard that Gabby and Mason have joined Alice and Br on the Smiths shit list. And listen, the neighbors are all very sympathetic. They all know the Smiths can be a little particular. But they also know from experience that the Smiths shit list is a bad place to be. Not least because people on their shit list, the Smiths, don't pick up Ollie's shit from those people's houses, so.

[E]

Oh, so it's a literal shit list. I'm getting a lot of respect for this mess actually. I mean, these people are professionals. Like this is the thing in D.C. you never know what people did before they retired. Like, these sound like some CIA folks. These sound like some people who really were out there, like balling. And they know their games. So you have made. You are entering a world of hurt if you go into it with them.

[B]

So we're almost at the end of our story. What options do you think our friends have now?

[E]

I still think that you've gotta try to make it right with the Smiths somehow. We've gotta have peace talks now. And you have to enter into that with like a full throated like, listen, this was on me. I definitely misplayed this. I fucked this up. You know what I mean? You know the other misstep that keeps popping up in my head is you get the story from this rich couple and you never verify with anyone else. Cause you've only heard one side of the story. You wanna get information from other neighbors to get another perspective. Cause it could be that these people with all this money actually did some fucked up shit. Who knows what happened back in 99. Yeah, you know What? I mean, who knows what happened in 99.

[B]

Exactly.

[E]

So that was a misstep. You can't go back and undo that. Now at this point, you've moved to a new neighborhood. You've immediately created a shitstorm for yourself. You have to just kind of, like, weather it as best you can. But you want to see if you can't make some kind of halfway amends to these people and be like, look, I'm sorry about this. This has clearly gotten out of hand. What can we do to make this right?

[B]

Yeah, I said that Mason's first mistake was volunteering for the next door page, but I do think you're right that their first mistake was actually just trusting what Alice and Brian told them.

[E]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Well, about a month after the Smiths installed their second set of lights, something happens that literally no one in this story, not Gabby or Mason, Alice or Brian or even the Smiths could have guessed. An unexpected hero comes to the rescue. Oh, Ollie.

[E]

Go on. I'm at the edge of my seat.

[B]

So those bright ass lights that the Smiths installed, which, let me remind you, allegedly installed specifically for this dog, actually cause Ollie to develop a light sensitivity. Like, he starts barking every time a light gets turned on, whether it's inside the house or out. Like a pair of headlights, the oven light, a candle, barking.

[E]

I think Ollie's the real villain here. Like, you can give all the kids all the rides you want. Like, you, sir, are the problem.

[B]

Gabby and Mason find this out because Ms. Smith posts on next door because not only is she uninstalling her motion sensor lights, she is also demanding that her neighbor use only yellow light bulbs going forward. Because Ali's therapist says that warm light is soothing to him.

[E]

Of course, yes, by all means, yeah.

[B]

Her neighbors, who have been subjected to floodlights for going on five months at this point, are all like, unless you're paying for all my new light bulbs, you can fuck off. Yes, at this point, the Smiths get the city involved.

[E]

I just love the city coming in and being like, wait, what now?

[B]

No, exactly. Exactly. Apparently there are laws about something called light trespass, which basically means, like, how much of the light from your house can spill onto someone else's property.

[E]

Absolutely.

[B]

Is it ironic that the Smiths are complaining about this? A little bit.

[E]

A little bit.

[B]

But the city getting involved actually ends up working out in everyone else's favor. Cause apparently the fence between the Smiths house and Alice and Brian's house, the one that the Smiths had made them rebuild before even starting the remodel it's actually three feet too far onto Alice and Brian's property.

[E]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Which means that legally, Alice and Brian could force the Smiths to rebuild the. Which would also make Ollie's yard smaller.

[E]

Oh, my God.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

The Smiths dropped the lighting issue immediately.

[E]

Yeah. They were bested.

[B]

They were had.

[E]

They were hoisted on their own potatoes.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. And Ollie starts walking around the neighborhood in a pair of little tinted goggles, which is honestly really, really cute.

[E]

Ollie, I could never hate you. Ollie. I take back my previous statements about you being the villain.

[B]

Around the same time that Ollie starts wearing his goggles, Brian and Alice finally finish their remodel. And this, along with Ollie's goggles, really go a long way to taking down the collective temperature of the neighborhood. And that's basically the end of our story. I do have some updates for you, but if you had to pick one villain in the story, who would it?

[E]

Villain is an interesting word because I can understand everyone's point of view. Ollie's definitely a problem.

[B]

Yeah. How do you solve a problem like Ollie?

[E]

Yeah, well, exactly. So the Smiths are definitely villainous. This rich couple, I'm looking at them a little sideways because they must have known that they were fomenting great drama by inviting these people in and giving them this crazy, like, one sided tale. So if I have to pick a villain, no one comes out of this blameless. But I think I'm gonna put it on the rich neighbors. I think they're the ones who made, like, the most crucial set of malevolent actions that led to drama for everyone.

[B]

Yeah. So first update is about a year and a half after this story, the Smiths actually end up moving away. They say that Ollie is getting too old to navigate the stairs and the Maryland winters, and he needs to take the waters. So they move to Sarasota, Florida. We wish them the best.

[E]

No comment. I don't want to offend any of the Florida listeners.

[B]

This entire saga does end up being the beginning to a long and beautiful friendship between Gabby and Mason and Brian and Alice. They spend many winter afternoons hanging out in the sauna. And on one of these afternoons, Gabby and Mason finally get the courage to ask Brian and Alice about what had happened. What happened in 1999? In 1999, Alice looks a little sheepish, and Brian turns even redder than he had been from the steam. Apparently in 99, when Alice and Brian had three kids in the house and were working insane hours at the hospital, they had gotten a little lax about upkeeping their backyard and a tree that the Smiths had been complaining about for years got blown over in a storm right into the Smiths living room window.

[E]

What?

[B]

Alice and Brian were a little stingier about money. Then they had three kids to put through college, so they wound up in court. Obviously the Smiths won and that's the beginning of the feud. And that's the end of our story. Wow.

[E]

They left that detail out. They didn't tell that part. Gossip is about what you leave out as much as what you include. They clearly left this out. This would have been a very important detail to tell someone as you're trying to get them up to speed on the relationship. To completely leave out an entire court case and lawsuit that you lost. That's sus. This is sus behavior. So I was right. My instincts that there was something off about this rich couple and the way that they immediately told you this story that just so happens to make them the hapless victims of these heartless people next door. This is. Yeah, question marks.

[B]

Carvel. Thank you so much. This was so fun.

[E]

That was such a great story. I love that Ollie came back and was the hero. It's a real Chekhov's gun situation. You showed us this dog at the beginning and then in act three, here he comes to the rescue.

[B]

Here he comes.

[E]

This is so well done.

[B]

His anxiety, his sensitivities, they're actually what bring us all together.

[E]

They're what bring us all together.

[B]

Thank you for listening to Normal gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email [e-mail] or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679 GOSSIP. If you love this podcast, want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a [e-mail] you can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok ormalgossip. You can follow me on all social media. Eydanae H E Y Y D N A E this podcast was produced by Sierra Spragley Ricks and Jay Tolviera. Our audio engineer is Samantha Gatzic. The co creators and dowager queens of Normal gossip are Kelsey McKinney and defector supervising producer Alex Sujong Laughlin. Justin Ellis is Defectors property projects editor Jasper Wang and Sean Kuhn, our defectors business guys. Tom Le is our editor in chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store which you can find at normalgossip store. Tara Jacoby designed our show art. Thank you to Brandi Jensen, David Ra, Katherine Shue Serena Embler, Chris Thompson, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford and Ray Ratto for your help on this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company. Company Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. I'm your host, Rachel Hampton. And remember, you didn't hear this from me.

[E]

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