B (3:51)

So honestly, I think that was a perfect example of why I love gossiping with you so much, which is that you are never afraid to take it to the point that it needs to be taken. I feel like so many people are afraid of saying the dark thing or of asking the really complicated question that people don't want to answer. But I know when I come to you with a story or even something about myself, you're going to ask me a question that I don't actually want to answer. And so I know that when I'm coming to you, it's with the intention of my worldview being opened.

C (4:28)

Wow, that is so sweet. That's a really nice way of saying that I'm nosy. I love that. Thank you, Rachel. I love research. That's why. That's how I started my career. You know, we both started as fact checkers, so I'm always like, how do we get to the bottom of this? You know, I love a little psychoanalysis. I think gossip is, like, a great place to hone your storytelling skills. You can become a better listener when you gossip. I just think that there are so many good skills. You don't have to sound like LinkedIn, but a lot of good skills that come from gossiping. And so we should embrace that. Yeah. Lawful good. Lawful good.

B (5:05)

Lawful good. I feel like you've empowered me so many times in our long friendship, and now I'm hoping that you can do it again. Because I heard that you have some gossip for me.

C (5:17)

Oh, my God, I do. So people don't know. I was a film critic for many, many years. So I'm at a film festival. I'm at a party at a film festival at, like, a really beautiful hotel. And it's overlooking the water. There are celebrities around, there are publicists around, there are journalists around. And I'm just there to kind of soak it all in. I'm really there to say that I was there. You know, I don't want to be seen, but I want to see. Yes, yes. So imagine me, I'm standing on the dock of this. Like, this hotel is, like, connected to a dock because, like, obviously everybody has a yacht. And I'm looking across the dock, I'm looking at the ocean, and I'm scheming about how I can maybe come into a cool $10 million. Okay. Which is. I'm always feeling like, what is the scheme I'm going to do to make $10 million immediately? And this C list celebrity comes up to me and says hi. And I'm like, confused. I'm like, hello. And they're like, I love your dress. When the C list celebrity said this, I said, oh, my gosh, thank you so much. And she's like, who made it? I said, oh, well, hopefully not some child's leave. And because I bought it off, like, what, the equivalent of like, African Shein. I'll be honest. She's like, oh, my God, you're so funny. I'm like, thank you so much. I wasn't kidding though. And I'm like, who made your address? You know, I'm having conversation. She's like, laughing a little too hard. I'm like, honestly, like, I'm not that funny. She's like, oh, my God, you got. You gotta meet my partner. You gotta be my partner.

B (6:51)

No.

C (6:51)

And I was like, oh, no, no, no. You know, I really am, like, keeping it low key here. Like, I'm not really trying to be seen. I was like, that's so sweet. She's like, no, no, no, you've got to be my partner. You gotta be my partner. And, like, you have to come to dinner with us. Like, we, you know, get a table at this, like, really expensive restaurant that's, like, in the town that this festival is in. And, like, you have to come with us. And I was like, I don't think that's a good idea. Like, I'm a critic, actually. And she so insistent I walk away for a Little bit. Because I'm trying to avoid her now, you know, Very sweet, but I'm like, I don't want to be part of this.

B (7:26)

No, it's too much.

C (7:27)

And I'm telling the friend that I came with. I was like, I think it's time to go. I'm getting asked questions like, will you come to dinner with me? You know what I mean?

B (7:35)

Me and my partner, right?

C (7:37)

As I'm, like, trying to find my friends and gather the group and exit, our friend finds me, our seeless celebrity friend. And she's like, where are you going? She drags me to her partner and is like, honey, honey, honey, I have someone I need you to meet. The partner turns around and it's like this. A list actor that I will not name, like, on the record, but I will tell you later, Rachel. And it is so awkward because they're like, hey, I'm so and so. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, this is kind of like the person I don't really want to be associated with. But then he's like, I would love if you come to dinner with us. You really should. We'd love to hang out with you. And I was like, this desperation is so crazy to me. And later, when I was telling my boyfriend about this, he was like, wait, I wonder if, like, they wanted to have a threesome with you.

B (8:23)

Yeah, 100%. Wait, I thought that. I thought that was the established vibe of. We saw your vibe across the room. I will say I cannot either one of these individuals because you're so beautiful and funny and smart. I would also see your vibe across the room and be like, hey, do you want to hook up with me and my partner? So I get it. Love you. That gossip was so good.

C (8:49)

Liris. Thank you. I really wanted to deliver for you, my queen, Rachel.

B (8:53)

And you did. I feel delivered. And now I'm here to deliver you.

C (9:00)

Oh, my God. I can't wait to hear what you have in store.

B (9:03)

Are you ready for some gossip?

C (9:06)

Yes. I'm going to be taking notes. We're going to be connecting dots here. Okay.

B (9:14)

You know, my producer has recently started suggesting that I might have adhd. I get very easily distracted. I have a very busy, even chaotic lifestyle. I might have something called time blindness. Basically, I'm always looking for ways to make my life easier. And that's why I'm so excited to be partnering with Everyday Dose, which is not just coffee. It's coffee plus benefits. It has collagen protein, nootropics, and functional mushrooms. And my gut and brain have never been happier. Get the boost you need to accomplish your New Year's resolutions. Lion's Mane helps with natural focus, while L Theanine keeps the stress at bay. Everyday Dose is the perfect boost you need to accomplish your New Year goals. Right now, get 61% off your first coffee plus starter kit and over $100 in free gifts, plus enter for a chance to win $100 cash or get your entire order refunded. Visit everydaydose.com gossip or use code gossip at checkout.

D (10:16)

Every idea starts with a problem. Warby Parker's was glasses are too expensive. So they set out to change that. By designing glasses in house and selling directly to customers, they're able to offer prescription eyewear that's expertly crafted and unexpectedly affordable. Warby Parker glasses are made from premium materials like impact resistant polycarbonate and custom acetate. And they start at just $95, including prescription lenses. Get glasses made from the good stuff. Stop by a Warby Parker store near you.

B (10:49)

Today. Our friend of a friend is named Sad.

C (10:53)

Oh, wow. Incredible. And that's a gift. One of my favorite artists, Sade. Sade, if you're listening to this, please, I would do anything for you to go on tour again. I would pay a lot of money.

B (11:05)

Well, before we get into the gossip, I have to ask, what is your favorite Sade song?

C (11:09)

Don't ask me to pick my favorite child. I won't be answering that on the record. God. Rachel is trying to set me up.

B (11:17)

You're right. I'm so sorry. I'll set myself up. Cause I think mine is. Is it a crime?

C (11:22)

Mm. Mm. I can hear that now.

B (11:23)

Same. Not least' cause it's also a working alternate title for today's episode. So our friend of a friend Sade does not just share a name with the more famous Sade. Our friend Sade is also Nigerian. Yoruba, to be specific. And just like the OG Sade, our friend Sade loves to sing.

C (11:48)

So sorry. I'm also West African, so obviously I'm already feeling kinship.

B (11:52)

These two things that Sade is Yoruba and that she loves to sing are arguably the two most important things to know about her. Okay, but some other important things to know about Sade is that she is the child of immigrant parents, so she is second generation. She has got two siblings who, quite frankly, do not matter to the story. What does matter is knowing that Sade is the eldest daughter.

C (12:19)

Oh, my God. Hey, am I Sade? No, I'm kidding. I'm From Ghana. So that's not correct.

B (12:28)

Well, Lovia, you seem to have some experience. If you had to describe the stereotypical eldest daughter of immigrant parents.

C (12:36)

Wow.

B (12:36)

How would you.

C (12:38)

Okay, you know, I know there's a lot going on on the Internet right now about eldest daughters. Okay. There are a lot of memes. There are counter memes. Parentification. And all of it is true. Every single one of them. To be the eldest daughter in an immigrant household is to carry the team. It's to be a project manager. It's to be managing editor. It's to be CEO. Okay. Coo, maybe even cfo. Okay. And it's third parenting. Right. But then you have like, a moment where you're like, wait a minute. These aren't my kids.

B (13:11)

Wait a minute. I had nothing to do with these people being here.

C (13:14)

Right. And you're talking about your siblings and your parents.

B (13:18)

Yeah. So it might not surprise you to learn that when Sade was choosing colleges, she chose the one that gave her the most financial aid and that was the furthest away from where her parents lived in Houston.

C (13:28)

Exactly. She's so smart.

B (13:30)

She is so smart. Because this winds up being Stanford.

C (13:33)

Oh, okay. And she's a genius girl. Pack it up.

B (13:39)

Sade's major is irrelevant to the story.

C (13:43)

Okay.

B (13:44)

What is relevant is that within a few weeks of arriving on campus, Sade joins Everyday People, Stanford's only hip hop, R and B, Motown and soul. A cappella group.

C (13:56)

Wow. They're doing so much. I love that one group. All of it. Yes.

B (14:01)

How do you feel about Acapella? I feel like we both came of age around the Glee pitch Perfect. Boom.

C (14:08)

I did dress up as a Glee cheerleader for high school Halloween. Okay. I can't sing. I'm tone deaf, actually. Famously.

B (14:17)

Fame.

C (14:17)

I have a love hate relationship with Acapella because on a fundamental level, it's so corny. But then it really does something to me because it's so akin to gospel. Right. I'm like, I love a choir. I love a situation. Okay. Ensemble voices. And we're all singing and we're getting higher and higher, and it feels like we're in church. So I'll admit that it's a tense relationship. I accept it. I accept. I have a lot of friends who do Acapella. If you're listening, I'm sorry. Like, I get it, but. But it's sort of like it just sometimes has a little bit too much proximity to theater kids. And I love the theater, and I have a challenging relationship with the theater kids.

B (14:54)

Lovia, as Always. You're so smart. Everything you say, I'm like. And you know what? Correct. What a well considered answer that I 100% agree with. Uh huh. I'm so glad you're here.

C (15:06)

Oh my God, I'm so happy to be here. I'm already like creating scenarios for Sade. I don't even know her.

B (15:12)

And that is the point of this show, is to create scenarios based on very.

C (15:16)

Yes, yes.

B (15:18)

So here's why I admit that I have never seen a whole episode of Glee. I will say that I did used to listen to the Glee Pandora station. Wow. The Uptown Girl cover, Low Key Whips. Anyway, Sade joins Everyday People and this comes to define her college experience. It's where she meets some of her closest friends. And it is also where Sade meets Jeremy. Jeremy is a feminist, gender and sexuality studies major. He is the child of two Californian hippies who had a secret fondness for disco and Motown, which is how he finds himself singing tenor in Everyday People. And the best way to describe Jeremy's whole vibe is I'm gonna play a video and I'm gonna ask if you can tell me if it rings a bell.

C (16:04)

It's some people hating big time, but it's people hating on this campus. You are freaking African Americans plus Mark. You know what I'm saying? Which I'm rocking with Mark.

B (16:17)

Cause Mark is rocking with us.

C (16:19)

Okay. Hey, we all have a mark in our lives and we share a mark.

B (16:26)

We do share.

C (16:27)

We share a mark. I won't say too much on that, but I love that meme. And I actually sent that to our mark recently. And I said, this is you. This is you. Yep.

B (16:39)

Yeah. Could you describe that video? Like, what is a moment?

C (16:43)

Oh, my God. Iconic. Iconic TikTok of a coach basically talking to a room full of black men. And then this white man who's a ginger, and the coach is saying, we are freaking African Americans. Okay. And then the camera just in such a delicious way, pans to the redhead and Mark. Okay? And we're rocking with Mark because what Mark's rocking with us. And I think that is a video about solidarity. Okay. Yes.

B (17:14)

So most black people, I think, know at least one white person like this.

C (17:19)

Yes.

B (17:19)

We share one in common. And it is a white person who is comfortable being the only white person in the room and does not feel the need to point out that they are the only white person in the room. So this is one of the many things about Jeremy that catches Sade's eye. He's also sort of Sneakily, really funny. Like, he's not the loudest person in the room by any means. But when he does crack a joke, everyone laughs. And he also never seems to get ruffled, even when everyone's, like, melting down during their studio album recording. Because, of course, Everyday People has multiple studio records. Olivia, you were definitely in student organizations in school. I don't even have to ask. What are the vibes when the big deadline is coming up?

C (17:59)

Student organizations are, to me, like what I imagine the White House would be during a crisis. It's completely fabricated. It's just, like, a completely manufactured urgency. You're putting a bunch of essentially teenagers, and you're like, take charge. So you have this combination of, like, the White House control room and Lord of the Flies leadership is huge. People suddenly take their positions incredibly seriously.

B (18:26)

And you're right. You're right. Sade's response to stress is a tactic I think is called ostriching, which is the stick your head in the sand approach. Sade is like, if I pretend I do not see it, it cannot hurt me. But this is why Sade is so impressed that Jeremy kind of just lets everything roll off his back. Like, when they were putting together the track list for the album, there was this huge fight about which version of Killing Me Softly the group should record. The Lauryn Hill version or the Roberta Flack version. As you can imagine, this ends up getting really heated. Sade, who has suggested the song, is, like, hiding silently in a corner. She's like, maybe if I don't make a single sound, no one will notice me. It's like a T. Rex.

C (19:08)

Absolutely. Do not be perceived Sade. Exactly.

B (19:11)

But from this corner where Sade is not being perceived, Sade sees Jeremy stand up, and he's like, guys, guys, por que no los dos? Why pit two bad bitches against each other? What if we did a mashup that pays homage to both of these absolute legends? And then Jeremy takes the opportunity when he has everyone's attention to be like. And I think Sade should sing it.

C (19:36)

Wow. Politics is in his future. Jeremy, I don't know where you are now, but hopefully you're running for something because we probably need you.

B (19:43)

So he's bringing the world together.

C (19:47)

Yeah, that was moving.

B (19:49)

Jeremy's like, sade's the one who suggested the song for the album. I just think it's fair. Which Sade did not think anyone had noticed. And from there, it is basically history. Like, after rehearsal, Sade thanks Jeremy for so kindly suggesting her. And while she's thanking him she just happens to mention a coffee shop near campus with a great vinyl collection that she's been wanting to try the two date for all four years of college. In their senior acapella performance, they sing, you're All I Need to get by together.

C (20:17)

Yeah, that's cute. I'm also like, what? But yeah, I'm also like, yeah, absolutely. So cute.

B (20:29)

It is not until after this so cute performance that Sade finally decides to tell her parents about Jeremy.

C (20:37)

Wow, she's so brave. I would not have done that.

B (20:40)

The thing is, Sade has met Jeremy's parents plenty of times. Naturally, it's just never been the right time for Sade to tell her parents about her boyfriend. Graduation is so far away, and now somehow, it is a week away, and Sade has to tell her Nigerian parents not only that she is dating Jeremy, but that they are moving in together after graduation.

C (21:00)

Sade's gonna do what? Girl, you actually don't have to be honest. And I'm. And you know what? That's not something people wanna hear.

B (21:08)

It sounds like you see some problems with this.

C (21:11)

I mean, I'm seeing my life in this. You know what I mean? Like, I'm projecting. Right? So we're introducing problems where there need not be. Jeremy's just a friend. Okay. And when you move in with him far away, he'll be a roommate. Okay. Then if you and Jeremy get married, then you can introduce Jeremy to your parent. I don't know. Like, listen, I tried this with my own. And let's just say. Well, that's. That's for. We'll get coffee and talk about that, Rachel. Like. Okay.

B (21:44)

Sounds like we'll be getting another kind of drink.

C (21:46)

Yeah, yeah. But. But kudos to Sade and whatever her plan is. I need to see this through.

B (21:52)

Yeah. So Sade's plan is that when she goes to meet her parents at the airport, she brings Jeremy.

C (22:00)

Oh, ambush. That's never worked, but I love. Yeah, go ahead.

B (22:05)

Yeah. Sade's parents do at first think Jeremy is the driver. This might be because he has combed his hair back and is wearing a tie because he just wanted to impress Sade's parents. But then they start handing him their bags.

C (22:21)

That is incredible. Yes, that would happen.

B (22:26)

And Sade has to be like, mom, dad, stop. This is Jeremy. Sade's mom, Anuli is like, hello, Jeremy. Before looking at Sade and asking, and who is Jeremy? Right?

C (22:38)

Like, this is Jeremy, girl. Oh, my God, I'm stressed.

B (22:43)

Sade is like, jeremy's my boyfriend.

C (22:45)

And it's good to do it in a public space too, because that kind of reduces the reaction. Because now your parents have to pick between seeming normal in public and also getting whatever they need to get out. You know what I'm saying? So that was strategic. Still not a good plan. But I respect how she did this.

B (23:05)

You and Sade are actually on the same page. Cause this is exactly why she chose to break the news like this. She has never really seen her mom lose it in public until that day. Anuli pops off all the way from SFO to Palo Alto. Anuli is beseeching the heavens. She is asking what she did to deserve such a disobedient daughter.

C (23:27)

Yup, yup. Familiar.

B (23:31)

Luckily or unluckily, depending on how you think about it, Anuli largely does this in Yoruba, which Jeremy obviously does not understand and which Sade is like 40% fluent in. So they can't really understand what exactly is going on. But how in love would you have to be to try to salvage this situation?

C (23:54)

You kind of have to let your mom go off and it's just sort of like exposure therapy, you know what I mean? Like, now that you detonated the news, you know you've ripped the band aid off, you know, we're just doing all these metaphors for what is essentially like a catatonic situation. You kind of just have to move forward and level set with your mom, parents, keep Jeremy around. Jeremy has to keep coming around. He has to be sort of an immovable force. And now you and Jeremy can ever break up.

B (24:23)

Yeah. I'm going to be honest, when I was reading the story, this was the moment where I thought things were really going to go sideways. But somehow Jeremy actually manages to charm Anuli over the course of graduation weekend. Like, whatever Anuli wants, Jeremy is down to get. She wants the ice cold Coke. At 10:00pm the night before graduation, Jeremy's driving to the nearest 7 11. No complaints. Like Anuli needs help cooking the jollof rice. Jeremy is chopping the garlic and the peppers and never, not once complaining about the spice level, even as he is visibly turning red and sweating profusely. Like, by the time it's time for Anuli to head home to Houston, she's asking when she can start planning the wedding. Anuly's like, if you two are going to insist on living in sin, the least you can do is give me a timeline for when this sin will be rectified. Now, to me, this feels like a huge win. Like we entered the situation with things being very scary. And now Anuli is basically on board. But to Sade and Jeremy, this is, in fact, another problem, because one of the many things they have bonded over is that neither of them actually care about getting married.

C (25:34)

Incredible.

B (25:35)

Well, remember, Jeremy is a Sexuality and Gender Studies major. He's trying to excise as much patriarchal tradition from his life as possible. And Jeremy's hippie parents had never gotten married. They told him it was an outdated institution and that people who spent thousands of dollars on a wedding were brainwashed. And Sade wouldn't necessarily take it that far either. She has grown up going to Nigerian weddings, which are very lavish and usually days long. But this also happens to be the exact opposite of what Sade would pick for herself if she had to get married. Like, she would do a small, intimate affair, which Anuli would never accept. So it is easier to just never get married from Sade's perspective. It's just like.

C (26:12)

It's too relatable. It's too relatable.

B (26:15)

Well, since it's so relatable, how many years do you think you could put off your parents badgering you about marriage before you caved?

C (26:21)

I think that it's really important for immigrant children to reprogram their parents and so to never cave. But I capitulate to everything my mother says. It's incredible. Rachel's like, you are full of shit. And I am, and I am. My parents didn't want me to move out, and then I moved out. And every day my mom asked me to move back, and I haven't lived at home in 10 years. And every day she's like, what, are you moving back so you can hold them off for a long time? Now, I don't know about Sade's mom. She seems scary. So, yeah, yeah.

B (26:55)

I was also laughing because I have not been tested in this manner yet. And I would like to think that I could hold strong, but as you know, I'm really bad at disappointing people.

C (27:05)

So you and me both, sister. You owe me both.

B (27:09)

It helps Sade that she immediately enters a PhD program. And for a long time, she can say she's just too busy studying to plan a wedding.

C (27:17)

I don't know how old Sade is, but if she's like, 25, I think she could have five years. But if she hits 30 without a ring, you start getting comments that are a little bit more pointed.

B (27:29)

Um, you gave five years. It takes about three years into Sade's PhD before things kind of start popping off. And they pop off because Anuli's Mother Sade's grandmother passes and the funeral coincides with Sade's finals. So she's not able to make the trip to Nigeria work on such short notice. As soon as Anuli is back stateside, she is calling Sade every other day, talking about how everyone back home kept asking her why her eldest daughter wouldn't get married and how sad it was that her mother had not lived to see her first grandchild get married. And would Sade please hurry up and get married before someone else died.

C (28:08)

This is the thing about our cultures and we have to free ourselves, like as a people, you know, like, you know, I'm speaking to my West Africans, like the social pressures of marriage, of birth, of death, it's unwieldy. I know that a large part of my mother's pressure is like she wants something to tell her church friends. And I get it.

B (28:28)

Yeah. So Sade's in a similar mind frame. She's like, I feel like my mom just wants to give her relatives something to see, something to be able to hold in their hands. So she decides to compromise. The one year anniversary of our grandmother's passing coincides with her next spring break. So she proposes to her mother. What if they all took a trip to Nigeria? Sade, her parents, her siblings, and Jeremy. They could do something to honor her grandmother. On the one year anniversary, everyone in the extended family could meet Jeremy and see how committed they were even without this traditional thing of marriage. And Jeremy would get to visit Nigeria for the first time. It's like killing three persons, one stone. So I don't know if you girlies know, but I have ibs. Yes, I am a hot girl with ibs. And one thing I learned is that the most stomach friendly bread is actually sourdough. It is one of the things that my nutritionist told me is least likely to make my stomach hurt. And you know who has the best sourdough whole foods? Their 365 brand organic sourdough sandwich bread is legitimately one of my favorite things in the world. I have had a lot of bread in my life, so I'm a connoisseur. So I can tell you that this bread slaps. And their 365 brand has so many other delicious ready to eat salad kits or ready to heat rice and bean blends to pair with protein and make your life easy. Shop all things wellness at Whole Foods Market, y'. All, I have to tell you about these leggings I have that I absolutely, absolutely love. We all know the worst thing about leggings is when they slide down your legs as you're moving and you're just stuck pulling them up all day long. Nothing drives me crazier, which is why I love the leggings I got from Quint's. They don't ride down, they are very thick, they are very flattering and they come in so many different colors. I got this really gorgeous midnight blue that I am obsessed with, so much so that that I feel like I need to buy more in that exact same color. Quince has all the staples covered from soft Mongolian cashmere sweaters that feel like designer pieces without the markup to 100% silk tops and skirts for easy dressing up to perfectly cut denim for everyday wear. Their wardrobe essentials are crafted to last season after season. Refresh your wardrobe with quints. Don't wait. Go to quints.com gossip for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too, that is Q-U-I-N-C-E.com gossip to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com gossip I didn't realize how much a mattress could change my nights until I switched to my Leesa. I got the Sapira Chill Hybrid. It has this incredibly soft, upscale feel that genuinely makes me look forward to bedtime every day. I'm thinking about the hour that I get to return to my bed. I love her so much. I actually recently messed up my back doing Lord knows what. Being old I guess, and I think the Lisa is what helped me recover so fast. Leesa has a lineup of beautifully crafted mattresses tailored to how you sleep. Each mattress is designed with specific sleep positions and field preferences in mind. Leesa has been tested and awarded Best Hybrid Mattress by New York Times Wirecutter and exclusively featured by West Elm as their Go to Mattress partner. Go to leesa.com for 25% off mattresses plus get an extra $50 off with promo code Gossip Exclusive for my listeners. That's L E-E-S a.com promo code gossip for 25% off mattresses plus an extra $50 off support our show and let them know we sent you after checkout. Lisa.com, promo code Gossip therapy is too expensive. Used to be the end of the conversation, but what if it didn't have to be? With Grow Therapy, care is designed to be affordable, insurance friendly and easy to understand. No subscriptions, just support that fits your life and your budget. With Grow Therapy you can actually search for therapists based on your insurance plan, which is a tool that no other website I have ever encountered has. You can even search by your insurance if you're covered by Medicaid, which again is something I have never seen another website offer. Therapy is truly one of the most important things I have ever done for myself. And that is the way that I like to think of it is as a gift to myself, my current self, my past self, my future self. I truly would not be here without therapy. And the hardest part about getting into therapy for me was finding a therapist, which is why I'm really excited to talk about Grow Therapy. Whatever challenges you're facing, Grow Therapy is here to help. Sessions average about $21 with insurance and some pay as little as $0 depending on their plan. Visit growththerapy.comgossip today to get started. That is growtherapy.comgossip growththerapy.comgossip availability and coverage vary by state and insurance plan. Anuli actually loves this plan. Anuly loves this plan so much that she actually offers to plan the whole trip. She books the flights, she makes the itinerary. She even asked Sade for her and Jeremy's measurements because obviously they would need custom clothing for the memorial service because something to honor Sade's grandmother has somehow turned into a whole memorial service that seemingly everyone Anuli knows in Nigeria is invited to.

C (34:34)

Funerals are basically parties. They're social events, gatherings.

B (34:38)

Sade is a little bit annoyed that a huge portion of this trip that she thought of has been co opted because she hasn't been to Nigeria since she was in middle school and now Most of the 10 day trip is accounted for. They're going to fly into Lagos, spend a couple of days in the city with family, and then travel to Anuli's hometown, which is a small village about 45 minutes out of the city. So all in all Sade would have like 24 hours to herself and eight of them she would presumably be sleeping. Any concerns so far?

C (35:07)

You know, I'm not hearing much about Sade's family life but I know that if I had to spend and I love my family for the record, but if I on the record but if I had to spend 10 days with extended family in the village, I'm not feeling good about this. But again, you know, Sade's mom has surprised me a lot throughout the story and so I'm hoping I'm gonna hold onto that.

B (35:35)

You hold onto that. The day of the trip comes after over 20 hours of travel. Sade and Jeremy land in Lagos. They barely have time to Set their bags down in a before they have to get ready for the welcome party that is scheduled for the first night. This was the first event that Anuli had custom clothing made for. The dress code is cocktail attire. Everyone is dressed in their finest. There is enough food to feed an army. The dancing starts almost immediately. And this is the first time Sade has seen a lot of her family since she was like, 12. So it is all a bit overwhelming, along with the fact that everyone is staring at Jeremy. And Sade obviously knows that Lagos is a very cosmopolitan city. But in that moment, it feels like Jeremy's the only white person for miles. And the thing is, he's handling it pretty well. He's doing his very best not to blush too much under all the scrutiny. He's learning how to dance with his hips and not his shoulders.

C (36:30)

Amazing.

B (36:31)

It's all very surreal.

C (36:33)

Yeah.

B (36:34)

As is the fact that people keep handing gifts to Sade and Jeremy.

C (36:38)

Oh, my gosh. Wait a minute. I'm sorry, Rachel, keep going. I just had, like, a vision, you know, and I won't say it, but you. You keep going.

B (36:50)

Well, the first time it happened, Sade just figures that it's particularly thoughtful relative. Again, she hasn't seen his people in decades. But by the third gift, Sade is like, what the fuck is going on?

C (36:59)

Wait. And so a newly planned this. And I'm sure she didn't run anything by Sade or Jeremy.

B (37:04)

No, of course not.

C (37:05)

Y' all don't know what you're attending. You don't know what you're attending. Okay, okay, okay, okay. You don't know what your mother has told these people.

B (37:13)

Well, Sade tries to find her mom, who's too busy arguing with the vendor about something with the food to talk to Sade about the gifts. So over her shoulder, Nuuly's like, well, no one has seen you in years since you couldn't come back for the funeral. From my one and only mother, Right?

C (37:28)

Gaslight her. That's incredible. Gaslight your daughter. I'm with you, Sade.

B (37:38)

Sade's like, mom, come on. You know why I couldn't come. And Anuli's like, of course. I'm just explaining. Don't be so sensitive. Anuli's like, these are belated gifts of graduation. You would have received them earlier if you've been able to make time in your busy schedule. Just set them aside and we'll open them up back in the States.

C (37:54)

Oh, so we can't open them up right now. Interesting. That is suspicious.

B (38:00)

You're Sade, what do you do?

C (38:02)

Okay, this reminds me of, like, when I graduated from college and my parents were like, oh, we're gonna take this trip to Ghana. And I was like, I don't have a job. So, like, I don't wanna leave the States without a job. But really, it was because I was really paranoid that my mom was gonna, like, take me to Ghana and, like, steal my passport and, like, keep me there. Okay. And so I just want you to know the level of paranoia I have in my head. And so if me, I'm Sade, I'm thinking that, like, I'm actually secretly getting married this weekend without my permission, without Jeremy's permission, because this isn't about me. This is about my mother. So that's what I'm thinking. So that's. The paranoia is taking root. Okay, so now I'm thinking of an escape plan.

B (38:43)

Well, remember, Sade is our beautiful, beautiful ostrich. So she's like, you know what? My mom is probably right. My family is just proud of me. And why wouldn't they be? Sade graduated from Stanford. She's getting her Ph.D. you know.

C (38:59)

Yeah, but let's use those critical thinking skills from Stanford. Sade, come on now.

B (39:05)

Well, the thing is, Sade is just trying to get through the night because the next day is her free day, and it'll be her first time in Lagos without parental supervision. So this is what Sade is thinking about when halfway through the night, Jeremy pulls her aside. And Jeremy's like, listen, everyone is so nice. The food is incredible. But then he's like, also, no one's really talking to me. Like, I'll try to have a conversation, and they'll just, like, hug me and then leave. Also, what's up with the gifts? Sade's like, don't worry, don't worry. It's the first night. They're probably just warming up to you. And then she's like, I don't want to think about the gifts. Let's just please go to the beach tomorrow. Sade is like, I need to be by the ocean with a drink in my hand to get through the rest of this trip. And the thing is, the next day does end up being the highlight of the whole trip. Sade and Jeremy go to the beach. They explore the city. It's so magical that they're like, we have to come back without telling anyone in the family that we are here. Well, how are you feeling so far? Are you anticipating any problems?

C (40:04)

I'm still stressed, Rachel. I've Been stressed since the airport. I feel like I've communicated this. Like, that stress hasn't left me. I'm literally racking my brain. Like, I'm trying to be like, figure out Anuli right now. Like, in my notes, I have, like, just three question marks by her name. She's such a wild card. I'm like, actually, this isn't a story about Sade. This is a story about Anuli. Like, that's who I'm interested in. I'm. Yeah.

B (40:26)

Well, Sade, again, kind of in a summer place. She had told Jeremy not to worry about the gifts, but they had made Sade just, like, a little bit suspicious. So she is on high alert when she and Anuli and Jeremy and her family get to the village. And the thing is, Sade is almost immediately vindicated because as soon as they roll into town, she and Jerem immediately separated and made to sleep in different houses. When Sade confronts her mother about this, Anuli is like, you can live in sin in the city. Lord knows what goes on there, but here in the place where my mother is buried, why don't I just drive you to her grave so you can spit on it?

C (41:03)

Yep, yep. Yeah, yeah. Wow. West African mothers. I love them so much. They need to be studied. You know, some of our greatest artists, both in terms of the narrative and the emotional manipulation. I love it.

B (41:25)

Yeah. There is not much Sade feels like she can say to this.

C (41:28)

Yeah, well, your mom just said, go spit on your grandmother's grave. Like, yikes.

B (41:36)

So Sade is still on high alert, which she does end up feeling just a little bit bad about, because on their second day in Anuli's hometown, Anuli does actually drive her and Jeremy to her mother so that Sade can give her proper respects. As Sade places flowers on her grandmother's grave, Anuly is overcome by emotion. Like, she almost faints from grief. Sade is like, you know what? Grief isn't linear. I should go easy on her. And the thing is, it ends up being a really lovely day. Anu Ly gives Sade and Jeremy a whole tour of her hometown. She shows them her mother's house and where she went to school. And the day goes so well that when Anuli tells Sade that the mother memorial service the next day will be followed by a large reception for the entire extended family, Sade doesn't even really ask any questions. In fact, the only question Sade asks is when Anuli tells her that she'll need to dress in the formal Nigerian garments that Anuli had custom made for her for the memorial service. Sade has not even seen these garments yet. But the only question she asks Anuli is, what about Jeremy? What is he wearing? He brought jeans. Anuli's like, don't worry about him. He'll be getting ready with the rest of the men. They'll make sure he's properly attired.

C (42:46)

Okay. New thought just came into my head. What if this is their engagement party? I'm still like, I'm just like. As you can see, I'm still set on this being some form of manipulation. But yeah, I just want you to know where I'm at right now. I thought wedding, but maybe I should have gone one step before.

B (43:05)

Would you have follow up questions here?

C (43:07)

Absolutely. I'm asking, how big is this reception? What does the garment look like? What am I wearing? What are you wearing? What's the family wearing? Are we matching? Are we complimenting? Is it white?

B (43:21)

Sade is wondering if she should be asking more questions, especially when she does finally see the clothes that Anuli had made for her, which are far fancier than Sade had anticipated. Like, they're made from this luxurious white and gold fabric.

C (43:35)

White and gold?

B (43:37)

It's elaborately beaded. It matches Anuli's garments, which are also white and gold with coral accents. Sade's aunts and girl cousins are also dressed to the nines, but when Sade joins them to get her hair and makeup done, she sees that no one else is wearing white and gold, just her and Anuli. Anuli has an explanation for this, though. Anuli and her sisters had all coordinated so that everyone wore the same colors as their kids. And Sade has so many cousins that she is actually not entirely sure which aunt is whose mom. So she's like, that could be true. I don't know who belongs to who here.

C (44:09)

Oh, my gosh. Anuli has a career, I think, as a federal agent. And we should, we should revisit that at the end of the story.

B (44:21)

Sade is starting to get a sort of uneasy feeling. Should Sade do anything about this uneasy feeling? Is there anything she can do?

C (44:32)

Asking mom direct questions like, is this an engagement party? Are people expecting me to be betrothed? Am I secretly getting married? Just like kind of hit, you know, get the paranoid, my paranoid thoughts out the way and see what answers come from those really specific indirect questions.

B (44:52)

I started this episode by saying, you always ask the best questions. Sade's uneasy feeling only increases when she sees the venue for the memorial service. It is a Massive great hall. Like, it is objectively the biggest building in the whole village. It's been decked out with massive floral arrangements and lots of gold accents. And as a newly ushered Sade into the great hall, Sade can't help noticing that the vibe does not seem all that sad. Like, yeah, her grandmother had died a whole year ago. Time heals all wounds. But the atmosphere in the venue is downright joy. When Sade arrives with her mom and aunts and cousins. There's music playing, there's champagne flowing.

C (45:34)

Champagne, wow. And you know, this is when I start asking the vendors questions. If I'm not getting a direct answer from my family. Okay, is someone out there holding the champagne? I'm gonna be like, hey, like just a quick question, like, what were you hired for? Like, what event? You know what I mean? Like, you have to kind of get into your investigative journalism bags and start doing some recon. Okay.

B (45:58)

Well, it is as Sade is getting hustled into a side room to put the finishing touches on her makeup that she sees Jeremy for the first time since the previous day. He is surrounded by Sade's two brothers and her dad and her uncles and male cousins. He is wearing an agbara and looking just as confused as Sade feels. And it is at this moment that Sade decides, I need to pull my head out of the sand.

C (46:22)

Let's go. That's right, baby girl.

B (46:25)

They're finishing their makeup and Sade is like, mom, what the fuck is going on? This does not feel like a memorial service. Why is everyone so happy? And Anuli, she rolls her eyes to the heavens and she's like, lord, please grant my ungrateful daughter some tact and good sense. Especially on a day like today that marks a year since my mother left this earthly realm. Is Shade not thinking about any of that? Did she bump her head on the way over? Oh, also, Anuli says, don't forget the entire memorial service is gonna be in Yoruba.

C (46:54)

Yeah, you see? And this is why you have to ask the direct questions. The open ended what's going on doesn't really work because that leaves too much room for deflection. Okay, whatever. You're suspicious of you. It's fine, it's fine. I sound like a broken record. Please carry on.

B (47:10)

What options do you think Sade has here? It's innie again.

C (47:14)

I'm just feeling like the window is closing. Okay. For escape. Like, one thing about me is that sometimes I end up in a situation and I'm sort of just like, I Guess this is my fate now. And that's not great. You know, you want to be someone who's, like, acting in the moment, who feels like at any single point, you can turn around, but it just feels like she's really in deep now. I'm kind of like, we have to see this play out. Gotta see now. We have to see it through. The fact that the whole ceremony is gonna be in Yoruba is very wild. Yeah. Cause. And we said, What? Sade's like, 40% good at Yoruba. I mean, you could be legally bound to something you don't know about. I don't know. Giving village wedding and. Or engagement. I'm still on that, but. Yeah.

B (48:03)

Well, Anuli then insists as her mother's first granddaughter, Sade, enter the hall very last.

C (48:10)

Sade, enter the hall very last. I cannot. I can't.

B (48:21)

This is the last straw for Sade. And she's like, I am not doing anything until you tell me the truth. This is not a memorial service, is it? Because at this point, Sade can see her aunts and cousins starting their procession through the whole.

C (48:35)

They're lining. Sade. I can't believe it took you this long, but it's fine. Like, yeah. Wow.

B (48:40)

Okay. The hall is filled with people. Like, possibly everyone in Nuuly's hometown has shown up. A song starts playing that Sade has only heard in one specific context. She turns to Anuli and is like, mom, you cannot do this to me. Because the song that it's playing is distinctively bridal.

C (49:00)

Yeah, girl. I mean, at this point, you're looking to your mom, but, like, you're in it. Like, we should have been asking these questions earlier. We should have. Before you got to the village, you should have just absconded. I don't know what to tell you.

B (49:14)

Yeah. As you correctly guessed, what Anuli has spent months planning is not a memorial service for her late mother, but a wedding for her stubborn daughter. She has somehow conned her entire family into colluding with her by telling them that Sade and Jeremy obviously knew and consented to what was going on. But Jeremy didn't like being the center of attention, so everyone needed to be as discreet as possible, which is why no one was really talking.

C (49:39)

Oh, my gosh. Wow. Oh, my God.

B (49:44)

Sade is like, mom, what have you done? And Anuli says, I'm so sorry to have tricked you. But then she's like, you're not gonna make a fool of your mother, are you? Everyone is here.

C (49:54)

I think you have to break out into song. I think that you and Jeremy have to start singing. And I think you just. Yeah, you just sort of do something. Just something. I don't know. I'm panicking.

B (50:11)

Are you gonna make a fool of your mother?

C (50:15)

Oh, my God. Me, personally? No. And you know what this story's making me realize? Like, I'm still oppressed. I guess I'm going along with it. But the right answer, the more courageous answer is to break out into song and just sort of stun people and then tap dance your way out of the.

B (50:34)

And then run and start running.

C (50:36)

Yeah.

B (50:37)

Sade really considers it. She really does consider having her runaway bride moment.

C (50:42)

Yeah.

B (50:43)

But she can see Jeremy waiting for her at the altar, and she's like, I can't abandon him, girl.

C (50:50)

What?

B (50:56)

And for those who don't know, there is a Nigerian wedding custom where guests spray the happy couple with money and the bride does not smile until she is satisfied with what she's gotten. So in this moment, Sade turns to her mother and she's like, tonight, when your entire family is showering us with money, I will stand there unsmiling until all your brothers are poor.

C (51:17)

Okay. Wow, this just really took a turn. And I mean, the other thing, I'm thinking again, just trying to get my girl Sade out of this. Like, how legally binding is this if it's in the village?

B (51:27)

That's a great question. Anuli is like, whatever you want, my sweetest daughter. And then she basically shoves Sade down the aisle. Poor sweet Jeremy has just been waiting at the altar with the officiant, who starts speaking in Yoruba once Sade joins them.

C (51:45)

I'm also like, is Jeremy asking any questions? I'm sorry. Not like, I know not too much on Mark, but like, are you concerned?

B (51:55)

Jeremy whispers to Sade, you look beautiful. And then he's like, is this a wedding?

C (52:01)

Oh, my God.

B (52:06)

Sade's like, I am so sorry. My mom is crazy. And Jeremy's like, we can leave right now if you want. Like, just say the word. We can leave.

C (52:13)

Right? That's the first smart thing you said, Jeremy. And maybe the first thing you said, all, sorry, tbh, you've been silenced.

B (52:22)

And again, Sade does consider it. But then she's like, this probably isn't even valid in the United States. Right. And from the altar, Sade can see how happy her whole family looks, including a newly, who is, like, openly weeping at this point.

C (52:35)

Okay, so now she's okay with lying. Like, it's just like, you should have kept Jeremy A secret. Okay, it's fine. I'm judging Sade, but it's because I care.

B (52:46)

And so Sade's like, we're already here. Let's just go with it, and we can figure this out once it's over. And so they do. Jeremy and Sade get married, the wedding ceremony ends, and the party begins. And listen, no one has ever accused Nigerians of not knowing how to party. So it is a pretty fucking incredible party. Incredible enough that Sade doesn't even get a chance to talk to her husband Jeremy until later that night. Because now that they're married, they're officially allowed to sleep in the same room.

C (53:12)

A win is a win.

B (53:13)

And the thing is, they very much are married. Because sometime during the party, Jeremy had had a chance to look up whether weddings performed in Nigeria were legally valid in the US and they are. Turns out, no. When Sade finds this out, she starts packing. She's like, I cannot be in the presence of my mother right now. We have to leave tonight.

C (53:30)

Yeah.

B (53:31)

And Jeremy's like, that is so fair. But then Jeremy's like, I don't know. I kind of had a lot of fun tonight, and we made a lot of money. Your cousins are teaching me how to dance. Money is great. Shelby's like, we've already been married against our will. What is the worst that could possibly happen now?

C (53:49)

Okay. I mean, famous last words. But sure.

B (53:52)

Sade's like, you know what? It's not like my mother can get pregnant on our behalf. Maybe you're right. Maybe we can just finish out the rest of the trip. I want to ask, how long would it take for you to forgive your mother for doing something like this?

C (54:05)

Okay. Wow. I mean, forgiveness is such an interesting concept, right? Especially between mothers and daughters. And like, that. That's my interest. Like, I. We're always talking about mothers and daughters.

B (54:14)

We're always talking about mothers and daughters.

C (54:17)

Like, because, you know, I love books about mothers and daughters, TV shows about mothers and daughters. I mean, is Sade really even mad? Like, that's my question. It's really not giving that. And so maybe it won't take her that long to forgive. Bring. You guys don't see my quote, I'm gonna forgive, but I heard them. I wouldn't be in this situation. I'm gonna be honest. I wouldn't be in this situation because I would have left that first night in Lagos. Cause I would be suspicious. And so I don't know how to answer this question because it just really wouldn't be me.

B (54:48)

That is so real. You did say at one point that you would have gotten married in this situation. I would like to say it.

C (54:57)

Classic Gemini.

B (54:58)

20 minutes ago.

C (54:58)

You did say. I did say I would do it for the bit. Okay, so let's say I am in this situation. I did it for the bit. I'm just so maybe like, something's happening to me right now where I'm so overcome. I'm so impressed by Anuli that I can't even really be mad. I'm just like, this is incredibly clever. And if I'm Sade, this is probably not the first time my mother has betrayed me in some really deep, traumatic way. So it's just kind of adding it to the list of things I'm talking to my therapist about when I get back to the States. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (55:27)

It does take Sade a while. Like, she and her mom basically do not speak for the rest of the trip. Oh. Sade goes no contact for four months. And then Anuli apologizes after four months of no contact. Anuli is like, you, grandmother wanted so badly to see you married, and I just, I went a little crazy after she died. She's like, I'm so sorry to have deceived you, but you've granted your mother her one most treasured wish. And I promise I'll never ask for anything again.

C (55:53)

Right. Until she started asking for a kid. But a newly got what she wanted so she can apologize. Yeah. Nice. I put apologies in air quotes for those who can't see.

B (56:05)

Sade is like, I'm gonna remember you said that. And then she makes Anuly promise to never mention this in front of Jeremy's parents because she's like, to them, we're not married. And then Sade makes a promise to herself to never go on another trip planned by her mother, as you correctly guessed. A few years after the wedding, Anuli does start asking when Sade and Jeremy are gonna have kids. And all Sade has to say is, I'm sure you're not asking for anything else, are you, Mom? And Anubi backs off for a couple of weeks, and then she starts again.

C (56:35)

Wow. I. I'm thinking about their friends. I'm thinking about Sade and Jeremy's friends. Like, they didn't come to the wedding. I forgot about Jeremy's parents. Low key. So that was a good reminder. I'm thinking about Shadi's little brother's useless. Like, were they in this as a.

B (56:53)

Sister of a little brother? They usually are.

C (56:55)

Right? Okay.

B (56:57)

That's the end of our story.

C (56:59)

Loveia Rachel this, this actually triggered me. I got ahead of myself. Like I started to feel things. It's like my survival instincts came into play. You know what I mean? Fight or flight? Like it really activated my fight or flight. Yeah. Sade babes, wherever you are, I'm gonna need you to ask different questions. Questions.

B (57:24)

Thank you for listening to Normal Gossip. If you have a gossip story to share with us, email us@normal gossipefector.com or you can leave us a voicemail at 2679. Gossip. If you love this podcast and want to support us, become a friend or a friend of a friend@supportnormalgossip.com you can follow the show on Instagram and TikTok. Normalgossip you can follow me on all social media. Eydanae H E Y Y D N A E this podcast was produced by Sierra Stragley Ritz and Jay Tolviera. Our audio engineer is Samantha Gatsick. The co creators and dowager queens of Normal gossip are Kelsey McKinney and defector supervising producer Alex Sujon Laughlin. Justin Ellis is Defectors projects editor. Jasper Wang and Sean Poon are Defectors Director's Business guide. Tom Ley is our Editor in chief. Dan McQuaid runs our merch store which you can find at normalgossip store. Tara Jacoby design our show art. Thank you to Brandi Jensen, David Raw, Katherine Shue, Serena Embler, Chris Thompson, Dave McKenna, Patrick Redford and Ray Rato for your help on this season. Thank you to the rest of the Defector staff. Defector Media is a collectively owned subscriber based media company. Normal Gossip is a proud member of Radiotopia. Hello, I'm your host Rachel Hampton and remember you didn't hear this from me.

C (58:43)

Radiotopia from PRX.