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Northern Disclosure
S4E7: “The Bad Seed” with Randall Miller
00:45:08
Rob Morrow, Janine Turner, and special guest Randall Miller revisit behind-the-scenes memories of Northern Exposure and the episode "The Bad Seed"
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- [00:00]
Randall Miller
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Jeanine Turner
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Randall Miller
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Jeanine Turner
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Rob Mora
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Randall Miller
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Jeanine Turner
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Randall Miller
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Jeanine Turner
This episode is brought to you by Redfin. You're listening to a podcast, which means you're probably multitasking, maybe even scrolling home listings on Redfin, saving homes without expecting to get them. But Redfin isn't just built for endless browsing. It's built to help you find and own a home with agents who close twice as many deals. When you find the one, you've got a real shot at getting it. Get started@redfin.com own the dream. Hi everyone. I'm Jeanine Turner. Welcome to Northern Disclosure, where my handsome and talented and philosophical and brilliant co host, Rob Mora. We always have so much fun. All these years later, Rob Mora and I walk through all the episodes of Northern Exposed Exposure. So don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss a show and share with all your friends. Because Rob and I talk about how only about 5% of the northern Exposure fans out there know about this show. So spread the word because the show is just so. This show's a lot of fun, but Northern Exposure is always, always a happy, hopeful place to be. Welcome, Rob Morrow.
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Rob Mora
I like that. Happy, hopeful place to be. Thank you, Janine. Nice to see you. You look lovely. You look all summery.
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Jeanine Turner
I do? Yeah. I have my summer dresses now, so this is a really cool summer dress where I has big pockets and it's linen and it's just comfy casual.
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Rob Mora
Got to have pockets. I mean, anything that doesn't have pockets is just. I'm sorry, it's. It's not working for me. Got to have pockets and then lots of them. The older I get, the more pockets I need. I don't know.
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Jeanine Turner
Thigh calf.
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Rob Mora
That's right. That's why I wear a lot of cargo pants and shorts, because they got those extra pockets.
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Jeanine Turner
True. I watch these Northern Exposure episodes and I look at how thin I was back then.
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Rob Mora
Well, you look pretty great now, so I don't know what you're talking about.
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Jeanine Turner
No, I'm in my middle age spread now in comparison. But it's a funny thing is everyone thought I Was too heavy back then. And I look at it back then, I'm like, I was really actually pretty thin then. I don't know what everybody's preoccupation was that I was heavy back then.
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Rob Mora
They got you in a lot of nice, different outfits in these couple shows we're watching. It's fun. You know, it's like a dress, a blazer.
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Jeanine Turner
Just watched two shows back to back. So is this. Does the Bad Seed, the one we're watching right now, that doesn't have Mike Monroe in it.
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Rob Mora
That doesn't mean you get to wear a dress in that.
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Jeanine Turner
Yeah, I was in that blue dress. But today it's the Bad Seed. And I have to tell you, it. It's a Valley. Perrine was absolutely fabulous in it. We have a great guest today who's going to tell. Hopefully will remember, and I'm sure he will a lot about working with her, but John Colum again, so Cynthia Geary again. Rob. You, Rob, Elaine. It was just a lot of fun. It was a really, really terrific episode.
- [03:21]
Rob Mora
Yeah. And Valerie Perrine, rest in peace. She passed away recently. What a career, right? What an amazing career. The movie Lenny. Bob Fosse movie Superman.
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Jeanine Turner
Lenny. Is it Lenny?
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Rob Mora
Lenny was the Bob Fosse with Dustin Hoffman.
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Jeanine Turner
Then she won all kinds of awards. Cannes, bafta, Academy Award nomination for best Actress. Oh, she received an Academy Award for best Actress. Oh, nomination, nomination. But still pretty cool. Slaughterhouse 5, Superman, Electric Horseman, the next Superman. It just goes on and on. What she did the last American Hero.
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Rob Mora
I remember, we were so lucky to have her. When she came on the show, we were like, wow, we got a movie star on the show.
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Jeanine Turner
Yeah.
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Rob Mora
So the Bad Seed was season four, episode seven. Holling comes clean on the Vincore's bad stock when a woman arrives in Sicily claiming to be his daughter. That's Valerie Perrine. Disappointed. Disappointed that Holly never told her the truth, Shelly begins hanging out with Jackie Vancouver. Valerie Prine, much to Holland's discomfort. Meanwhile, Marilyn decides that it's time to move out of her mother's house and asks Maggie to find her a new home. Maggie takes more of an interest in this job than most, largely to do with Marilyn moving in with her. But as Maggie finds out Ms. Whirlwind's dream home may not be so very far away. It's interesting that she gets you. Like, I'm like, were you always a real estate person or.
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Jeanine Turner
No, I don't think Maggie was ever a real. You know, Maggie's just, oh, give it to Maggie. She can Chop her own wood, fly her own plane, fix the toilet, you know, but suddenly I'm a real estate agent. But I had so much fun in those scenes because, you know, my mother was a real estate agent. My father was a real estate agent. Everybody. My mother was like Annette Benning in that movie where she played the real estate agent. Was it American Beauty? Was she a real estate agent in that one?
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Rob Mora
I think that, I think you're right.
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Jeanine Turner
And my mother has so many stories that if I could just hold the microphone up, I could probably write a movie that would be a huge hit. But my mom was the number one realt the Metroplex. So I had a lot of fun in those scenes. And it was second nature to me to say, oh, look, a little dry rot. Oh, just a little sandpaper, little paint. Well, take. Take that right away.
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Rob Mora
Oh, that's funny.
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Jeanine Turner
I was a. I grew up learning how to sell things and close the deal.
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Rob Mora
Amazing. Well, our director of the episode is with us. We got him at the last minute. I just, we just happened to. He just is gracing us with his presence. So he hadn't had a chance to watch the episode. So we're going to kind just remind him of things. But he's, he's ext. An extraordinary career. Coffee Wars, 10 tricks, CBGB movie, Savannah bottle Shock. He's. He's most. Seems to be well known for that, which is still having a life. It's coming into its 20th anniversary this year and there's all kinds of celebrations around that. There's talk of doing it as a musical or I actually, I guess they're even down the road with doing it as a musical. The credits, his credits go on and on and on. Jack and Jill, Popular. The six house guests, City kids, running in the halls. Da Vinci's war, northern exposure, 30 something. And so without further ado, I will bring in the great Randall Miller. Hey, do we call you Randy by short?
- [06:37]
Randall Miller
Is that Randy? Most people call me Randy. My mom called me Randall, but, you know, she's passed, so, you know, no one has to call me Randall anymore.
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Jeanine Turner
I just can't get over how super cool and hip you look. I love. And you know, I have. I had what I called my podcast glasses, which are big and blue. Can't find them. They're under the bed somewhere. I think my mom took them, put them in a drawer. I don't know where they are, but your glasses remind me of. You look so cool. Hi, Randy. Good to see you.
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Randall Miller
You know, I was re. I was, I was really I was a lot younger when I did, when I worked with you guys, and I was so intimidated because I had never, you know, I'd only done like a couple things when I was. When I came to do your show. And I was, I was really. It was a big deal for me.
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Rob Mora
How did you end up on it? Do you know?
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Randall Miller
I, you know, I had, I had, I had directed a movie which had nothing to do with, you know, doing Northern Exposure. I directed a movie called Class act with Kid and Play. And I guess it was sort of a cool movie. And I think somehow the producers thought that it was let's get this guy who we think is kind of cool. So, yeah, I mean, I, you know, it was a big, it was a big deal for me to do that show. And then after that, I think I did 30 something after your show and, and then I did a couple more shows and I started doing more and more movies after that.
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Jeanine Turner
Well, congratulations on your, on your great career and, you know, but I. Right off the bat, I have to talk about a certain something that you created that was new.
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Randall Miller
What?
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Jeanine Turner
This was new. And I've never seen it. And you did it. There was a traffic jam on the main road. When they're having that argument about being sterile between hauling and Shelly all the trucks and the cars that were going by, I'm like, oh my God, we're on an interstate.
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Randall Miller
I know it's probably something crazy that I was like, hey, let's do this. Let's have lots of cars and stuff happening in the background.
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Jeanine Turner
That obviously was a creative choice. We never had that many flurry of cars happening at the same time. And I thought, well, I bet you're trying to create this kind of angst and this kind of atmosphere of, of losing control.
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Randall Miller
Like they were so in their own world and there was a turmoil going all around them. That was sort of, you know, a visual way to sort of say, hey, you know, these people are at odds and they can't even deal with all this stuff that's happening around them. And, you know, I thought that you guys talked about Bally Prine. She was like, she was just this great spirit and had this like, gruff voice to her, you know, and, and it was something about her I thought was just really great. And I was really fortunate to work with her too.
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Jeanine Turner
So you did a really great job. And I have some things I want to talk about with the things that John Column did and whatnot, but I just thought she was super. But Rob, did you remember? Did you catch that traffic jam, I didn't catch it. I'm trying to remember, like, when they're walking out. They're walking out and she's. First of all, I thought that look on Cynthia's face when she's sitting in the room and they're first starting to talk about being sterile. And at first, I've known women that have been in this position. Right. That didn't have a clue, you know, and she's kind of listening. Whatever, whatever. And then he says something. And that looks on her face was so good because it was a dichotomy of how she normally is. And then she walks out and she's mad at him, and she really keeps it in a good. A good, honest. And I'm sure you had something to do with that.
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Randall Miller
She had it sort of contained, too, at the same time, which was good.
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Jeanine Turner
Yeah. What I call, like the Jessica Lange, you know, which I think I had in the episode before. But. But it's. That was always my thing to be like Jessica Lange, kind of. To contain it. She was containing it. But Rob, he had like a Mack truck and then a truck and then another Mack truck and then a truck.
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Randall Miller
They thought I was crazy. The ads were like, what do you want to do?
- [10:10]
Rob Mora
Exact.
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Jeanine Turner
Were you in a pre production meeting? And did you. Did you say.
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Randall Miller
Yeah, I was like, okay, so I want to do this thing where like, you know, they're arguing in the middle of the street and there's cars going around. And they were like, what? They were like, what are you talking about? And I just thought it would be interesting to play against the fact you had this other storyline, which was about the bird, about the crane. And the crane was sort of like this metaphor for, you know, for flying back home. And that would be some. Somehow related to Valerie Perrine storyline, you know, and it would. It would sort of the craziness of that against this sort of gentle, you know, the bird, like, leaving the nest or whatever it was. That would. That would play great.
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Rob Mora
How did they. I mean, that's. That's Ann Gordon, our animal wrangler. But how do you train a crane? Like, there was no train.
- [11:00]
Randall Miller
There was no training. It was like.
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Rob Mora
But that crane gave a great performance.
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Jeanine Turner
But he was able to touch his. I love birds. I'm a bird fanatic.
- [11:07]
Rob Mora
But how did they do that? That bird stayed so still in between them.
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Randall Miller
They had a little te thing, not hurting him or anything, but they had a little tether thing on his leg.
- [11:15]
Rob Mora
Oh. To keep him in place.
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Jeanine Turner
That doesn't. That doesn't mean you would actually be able to, you know, call him Colt Corbett. Chris of the morning was was caressing his neck.
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Randall Miller
I know it was kind of crazy. And there was no CGI or anything in that time. There was nothing like that at that time.
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Jeanine Turner
Oh, the glory days.
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Rob Mora
I don't know if you remember, Randy, but at the end of the episode there's a really beautiful sequence, beautifully shot out on location with Darren, Ed and John Chris dancing with the crane. And you cut back wide and they're just these figures on the shore. It's so beautiful. And I'm just amazed that the bird didn't fly. I mean, it seemed like it was moving, like it was comfortable, so something was.
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Jeanine Turner
And then it lifted its wings. You actually got a shot where it started to dance with them.
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Randall Miller
Yeah, but there was a lot, you know, like you do in anything, you get happy accidents. Right. So the, you know, lots of different angles and hopefully the bird would move, you know, and, you know, and you kind of just sort of put it together. You have to hope that it all works out. But it did work out, so that was good. Get business done with the new American
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Rob Mora
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Rob Mora
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Randall Miller
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- [13:02]
Jeanine Turner
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Rob Mora
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- [13:54]
Jeanine Turner
Ask your doctor about eglis and visit ebglis.lilly.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979.
- [14:04]
Rob Mora
Janine, do you notice that Maurice says one of your favorite lines?
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Jeanine Turner
Yes, I did. Hang on. What was it? What was it?
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Rob Mora
God is in the details. Yes, that's right. I figured you'd like that.
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Jeanine Turner
That's right. God is in the details. He did. He said one of my favorite lines. Absolutely.
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Rob Mora
You got a good memory, Randy. If you're remembering all these things.
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Randall Miller
I'm remembering it because you're talking about it. And I start to remember. But I do remember that Janine, you were the real estate agent and it was just great. I just thought. I can't remember her name. I'm sorry, I feel terrible. The actress? Yeah, she was just. She was. She was so. She didn't really react and you were like, with all this energy explaining the house and the this and the that. And she says something like, it doesn't face to the west, something like that. You know, like it was the minimal thing that didn't work for her was the fact that it didn't have the right facing or something.
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Rob Mora
She's so laconic and doesn't ever offer anything. There's a few moments where, you know, it's funny how she just. And it's interesting that they don't soften her up, but it's like she expects everyone to help her. She just expects you to do what you need. What she needs. It's. It's a. It's a kind of like a. A nobility or regalness about her in terms of the way she expects. But she says to. She says. Maggie asks something like. She says, may I ask why? And. And Marilyn just says sure, and then walks out.
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Jeanine Turner
Walks out.
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Randall Miller
Yes.
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Jeanine Turner
I was just gonna bring that line up. It was a great line. May I ask why? Uh huh. Sure. You're not gonna answer it?
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Randall Miller
Yeah.
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Rob Mora
And by the way, that mother, Armenia, who's playing her mother in the.
- [15:42]
Randall Miller
Oh.
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Rob Mora
Who plays her real mother in the show. And there's a great story about how she was the. Armenia was the one who was actually auditioning for the part years before.
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Randall Miller
Oh, I didn't know that.
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Rob Mora
Yeah. Elaine went to go tell her that she was parking the car, and the casting director said, you should come in and read. And Elaine got the part. But then Armenia was on the show a lot. She was an extra. And then she eventually played her mother.
- [16:05]
Jeanine Turner
And how great is it that she went back and bought her own house, you know?
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Randall Miller
Yeah, right. That was all those.
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Jeanine Turner
I got the perfect house. It was where you were. But the irony is that her mother ended up leaving it. But. Or I guess we can imagine that. That.
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Rob Mora
And then she says that classic line, like, the whole episode, Randy, if you remember. So she's looking for a house, and then she ends up, she can't find a house. And. And Maggie thinks, well, she doesn't really want to move out of her house. And her mom moves out of the house, puts it up for sale. And Jeanine has this, you know, epiphany. She thinks, oh, well, I'll sell her. I'll show her her house. And she goes. And they get out of the car and. And Marilyn, you can tell she's kind of considerate. And she looks at me, she goes. And she. She just left, like, three days ago. She looks at it and she goes. It's smaller than I remember, right?
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Randall Miller
Yeah. Yeah.
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Jeanine Turner
But, Brandy, did you. Did you hear in the opening that, you know, my mother was a real estate agent?
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Randall Miller
Yeah.
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Jeanine Turner
Probably talked about that. So I was. I just knew how to sing song around everything.
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Randall Miller
Right, Right.
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Jeanine Turner
So might need a little cleaning, but it's no big deal.
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Randall Miller
Yeah, exactly.
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Jeanine Turner
Open water.
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Randall Miller
So I didn't realize. So you had never been a real estate agent in the show at all? You had never done it?
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Jeanine Turner
No, actually, no. Rob and I were talking about that. I think that's the one and only time I was a real estate agent.
- [17:21]
Randall Miller
So funny.
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Rob Mora
But you take care of. You owned my cabin or something like, you're the one I had to deal with when I first got through.
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Jeanine Turner
I was your landlord. I'm not a. What I say to you, I'm not a prostitute, you jerk. I'm your landlord.
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Rob Mora
Right. Yeah, something like that. Something like that.
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Jeanine Turner
That was my first line in the whole show.
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Rob Mora
Not a hooker.
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Jeanine Turner
That's it. I'm not a hooker, you jerk. I'm your landlord.
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Rob Mora
Right.
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Randall Miller
Nice. Nice.
- [17:45]
Jeanine Turner
This is my first line.
- [17:46]
Randall Miller
No, it was just so much fun to do that show. And it was like staying in Bellingham and then going up there to that Snoqualmie pass, wasn't it? That's where it was.
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Rob Mora
That's where we passed through. But we were in. We were in CLE Elum and, and. And Rosalind Sounds.
- [18:01]
Jeanine Turner
We shot CLE Elm had our little tiny hotel which was like an old business. It was, you know, Holiday Inn type of thing or less, remember? And they had like those little, tiny, tiny bar dial soaps.
- [18:15]
Randall Miller
That's where you guys stayed.
- [18:16]
Jeanine Turner
Yeah, that was our hotel. When we went on location, it had a big grandfather clock in the lobby and no food.
- [18:21]
Rob Mora
No, there was a. There was a restaurant downstairs.
- [18:23]
Jeanine Turner
Yeah, that's true. I remember having dinner with the cast and Josh and everybody there.
- [18:26]
Randall Miller
But I also remember it was the first time I had experience where like you're on location shooting and you have to say excuse me to all the extras and not extras, but looky loos. People that came to watch the show, they moved and they were very nice. They would move to the other side of the street so you could film this way and then, and then everybody would move to the other side of the street. These were just people like watching the filming. Like they knew where the filming was going to happen or something.
- [18:49]
Rob Mora
At that point we had a dedicated fan base that would come up and it got pretty large at some point that, you know, they were. They'd have to have them quartered off and you know, the later seasons of the show.
- [19:01]
Jeanine Turner
You know what else I thought? Randy? The scene with John Corbett, Chris in the morning and Darren Burrows, Ed Chigliak and talking about the bird in the radio station. You know, you didn't have a chance to see it before, but man, it was so good. And I was just saying, I thought last, last episode, in this episode were two of Ed's, you know, Darren Burroughs best works. And he's talking about, oh, of course, you know, John Corbett knows everything. Chris Le knows everything about. About the Indian ritual of getting birds to dance. And Ed goes, I don't know, I don't think I've ever heard that. I don't know what you're talking about.
- [19:39]
Randall Miller
I was so impressed with. I had seen the show quite a bit and I was always so impressed with John Corbett, like all the stuff he would say on the radio and these like sort of very interesting in depth sort of meandering, not npr, but beyond NPR kind of things he would say. And, and I remember filming him with one of those things and he had little post its all around that he could because they were like gigantic themes and words that he had to like come out with and he would just move gently through each thought and it was really amazing.
- [20:17]
Rob Mora
He's. I've grown, you know, not only he's always been my favorite character, but John Corbett, the actor. I have such a growing respect for him. Like, he was so kind of insouciant, you know, about it all. Like, I was this guy from New York and Acting, acting, acting, right.
- [20:35]
Randall Miller
It was like he was very gentle and the way he could talk, and you didn't think he could talk about these things that he was talking about. And it did roll out of his mouth really well. Like, he didn't. Like you always have with actors, sometimes they can't say certain words. He could say whatever. Whatever they gave him, he could say it was amazing.
- [20:51]
Rob Mora
Janine Insoucian is lighthearted, unconcerned.
- [20:55]
Jeanine Turner
Thank you. Okay, you know what? I pride myself on words, but Rob tops me every show.
- [20:59]
Rob Mora
Okay, well, it's just pretension. I'm just pretentious, that's all.
- [21:04]
Randall Miller
Did you end up going. Did you go to, like, Princeton or something? Like, where did you go?
- [21:07]
Rob Mora
Not only did. I'm a high. Here's the reason I'm so pretentious because I'm a high school dropout who took a GED and cheated on it.
- [21:15]
Randall Miller
Wow. That's. I would never. I thought you. I. Yeah.
- [21:19]
Jeanine Turner
Wow. But, you know, I love to write, and I love poetry, and I love words, and I love correct grammar. I'm a. You know, when people are going out there saying, me went to the store. Me, you know, her went to the store, it drives me nuts because I'm a grammar person, and I love words. And Rob even wrote a beautiful, you know, Ford, or, you know, whatever it's called, testimony for my book. But, Rob, you taught me. You. You taught me every week, like, insouciant. How did you teach yourself these words, Rob?
- [21:43]
Rob Mora
I don't. You know, when I was really young, I actually learned words. A few words every day. But then I'm just a reader, so, you know, now. Now I look them up.
- [21:51]
Jeanine Turner
Okay.
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Rob Mora
But insouciant means happy, light, lighthearted, kind of, you know, just what Corbett is. And. And Corbett is that in life. And he. Is that his character. And he. He. You know, I just. It just. I didn't notice it because he just did it so effortlessly. But now that I watch the shows, he's just so. He's so good, and. And that. Those moments in this show that you were talking about, Janine, where he's talking about the crane and. And the. The. The amorous qualities of. Of the cranes in the character is so philosophically astute about life. And about so many aspects of life that he's. And he does it so unpretentiously. And his relationship with Ed is always interesting. They have such a nice dynamic, Jon and Darren, but Ed and Chris, and you got to really see it in this episode. I mean, I think it is so sweet at the end of that episode when they're dancing on that shoreline. It's just so charming.
- [22:55]
Jeanine Turner
Remember anything, Randall, about directing the two of them in that scene? I mean, it's been. Only been 35 years, you know.
- [23:00]
Rob Mora
Yeah.
- [23:00]
Randall Miller
No, yeah, it's only been a couple years ago. No, but I. I just really remember with John those moments where, you know, he's talking about the bird and he's. And he's. And he's. You know, there's certain times I've had this before with certain actors where they. They have odd pauses in what they're saying, and you're not sure whether to say cut. Like, you're not sure if you're done yet. And he would have those moments where, like, he's about to say something and pauses, and then he says the next thing. And that just blew my mind, because he wasn't. He was completely in control of what he was doing, you know, And I. And I didn't know that that's what was happening. So that's what I remember. Thinking that and feeling that, or he
- [23:50]
Jeanine Turner
was thinking about his line. Because I remember when I had my screen test three times with Franco Zeffirelli, I had this pause, and I couldn't remember my line. And I looked at the camera and I just kind of paused. But of course, Leonardo da Vinci talks about mobility of thoughts, what he tried to capture. So when you forget your lines, you're actually thinking, because you're like, what is my line? What am I supposed to do? What am I? And so later, Franco Zeffirelli said to me, you know, when you paused, do that again. Right. I mean, that was so wonderful.
- [24:17]
Rob Mora
Well, Randy, you'll attest to this as well, because when I direct, just before an actor goes up, the moment before they say, what's my line? It's like you le. You lean into the monitor and you think, oh, my God, this is the most brilliant thing. And then they screw it up. And so you try to tell actors, right, if you're gonna go up, ride it out. Don't break the scene, because there's. That's where the magic is, you know, because that's what we want to see. And film, unlike theater. And I think this is the difference between Corbett and me is, you know, we're trained in the theater to. To line, you know, to pace, pace, pace. And. And John didn't come out of the theater, so he just was in his moment. And. And. And that's what film does so well, is capture those moments.
- [25:00]
Randall Miller
Well, I worked a couple. I worked a few times with Alan Rickman, you know, Right.
- [25:04]
Rob Mora
He was in Bottle Shock. Right.
- [25:06]
Randall Miller
Bottle Shock. And I did Noble Son with him. And I did another movie, cbgb, where he played the head of the rock. The famous rock and roll club CBGB in New York. And he. Awkward sort of pauses. And I would be concerned because I'm like, you know, I know him and I'm his friend, and I thought, okay, I don't want to put him in a situation where he's uncomfortable, you know, like, where, like, he. He's with another actor and he just feels uncomfortable. He can't remember his line. And I would try to. And. And he would always say to me, like, just let me. Just let me go, Randall. Just let me go. And he would just go, wait.
- [25:44]
Rob Mora
So those moments, you would. You end up that. You would end up using those moments.
- [25:48]
Randall Miller
I would end up using those moments. Oh, yeah, you always end up. You know, the other one is always the beginning of, you know, with a great actor like Alan or I worked with Bill Pullman, you know, is. I'd always go.
- [26:01]
Rob Mora
And action.
- [26:06]
Randall Miller
Because at that beginning is usually something great. They're, like, just getting ready, and you're like, oh, my gosh, that's so good right there.
- [26:16]
Rob Mora
But, you know, Tony Scott. Tony Scott didn't say action. He just. He just would. He just would let the cameras go roll, you know, and then. And capture all that stuff, and that was all gold. You know, that those moments where the actors are just kind of thinking about the scene or, you know, did you
- [26:33]
Randall Miller
ever try in any of these, like, these crazy auditions, just going in and just doing, like, something completely off the wall? Like, that's the thing sometimes that, like, I would be in a situation and I'm like, I don't know how. I don't know how to make this. This thing work. They've given me this crazy thing. I don't know what. And someone would come in with something crazy off the wall, and I'd be like, that's great. Let's do that. Because sometimes you have to be broke sometimes. I'm not giving these people shade or anything, but I'm just saying sometimes it needs to be something completely radical that changes the point of view, will arnett
- [27:06]
Rob Mora
told this great story where he was auditioning. He was. Before he was a star, right? He had an audition for Sopranos for David Chase and. And our friend George M. Walken and Sheila Jaffe, one of them. And they were the casting directors. And the audition was one line. One line. So what do you do with one line? I mean, it's impossible. And he shows up at the audition and it's a room full of guys that look exactly like him. And they're all gonna go in and do his one line. And finally Sheila Jaffe comes out and says, okay, Will. And she brings him into the room and it's just Sheila and David Chase and Will. And so he's still thinking, what am I going to do to this line? And Sheila goes, okay, are you ready? And he says, yeah. And she goes, okay, go for it. And he goes. He takes a moment, he looks like he's really dramatic, and then he turns toward them and goes, what's my line?
- [28:11]
Randall Miller
Did they cast him, though?
- [28:12]
Rob Mora
They cast him because Chase just apparently just bowled over loud. Because Will has that great comic timing. I don't think he said Will. I think he just went line. Will Arnett, he's great actor and comedian person.
- [28:29]
Randall Miller
He's so funny.
- [28:36]
Jeanine Turner
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Randall Miller
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Jeanine Turner
online@statefarm.com like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Well, Randall, was. Was this one of your first directing? Because, you know, the more we talk and the older I get, like, the older I get, the more I work with inexperienced people, right?
- [29:30]
Randall Miller
Yeah.
- [29:31]
Jeanine Turner
And it's sort of like you go, oh, my God. I mean, I'll tell stories. Let me tell you about the way it was in the 70s. You know, I can go way back. You know, I was. My 70s was when I was working. But it's like the more you realize how beautiful it is to work with a director that's intuitive, that knows what they're doing, that does all these nuances that you're talking about. It's just pure bliss. And so. But you obviously had those instincts at a very young age. This wasn't the first thing you'd ever done.
- [30:00]
Randall Miller
No, but I'd gone to. I had been. In the beginning, I was an actor, an unsuccessful actor.
- [30:05]
Jeanine Turner
Oh, well, that's why you were an actor.
- [30:07]
Randall Miller
I had been an actor and I had done, like, you know, lots of little bit parts. Like, I'd done those one line roles. I'd been in lots of shows and stuff. And then I went to film school. I went to usc, and then I went to afi. And I remember, you know, this is a funny story, but when I was at usc, I didn't get to direct one of the thesis films like I'd written thesis film, but never got to direct. It's a process. Right. And the head of the directing program, I went into him and I said, you know, you picked two of my films. Have someone else direct.
- [30:35]
Jeanine Turner
Why?
- [30:36]
Randall Miller
And he said, directors are born, and you were not born a director. That's what he said. So I took that and went to afi and I started.
- [30:43]
Jeanine Turner
Where did they say that to you? Where did they say that?
- [30:45]
Randall Miller
The head of the usc. Head of USC Film Department.
- [30:48]
Jeanine Turner
That's the musical Chorus line. I'll find a better class.
- [30:50]
Randall Miller
Exactly. But that.
- [30:52]
Rob Mora
Yeah, right.
- [30:52]
Randall Miller
But that sort of feeling of, I gotta prove you wrong. I gotta prove these people wrong. You know, thing was burnt into my soul. Right.
- [31:00]
Rob Mora
Chris Nolan didn't get into film school. Yeah.
- [31:03]
Randall Miller
I mean, that's what happens. You get like this, like, you're not good enough. You're not right enough. So then when I started doing stuff at AFI and then I started doing, you know, short films and other things, I was going to prove it wrong. And so I was always watching, you know, how other directors did things. I did a lot of that where I went on people's sets and just sat there and thought about it, and how do you do this and how do you do that? I'd been an actor, so I kind of watched acting, but I hadn't really watched directing, you know, and so I was trying to figure that out. So I kept thinking to myself, if I get chance on various shows, whatever they are, I'm gonna do the best I possibly can.
- [31:39]
Jeanine Turner
But, you know, you said something that's really interesting. There's so many directors that come out of these film schools and they can direct, but they have no clue how to talk to actors. They don't understand anything about the emotional layers or the intricacies that really passionate Actors are trying to deliver. You obviously were aware of that because you're looking at that before. And action. And do I cut during this pause? And that was what made me think of. There's so many directors, they would just go, cut, cut, cut. You didn't get your line right. Cut. You know, instead of going back and just watching the nuances on an actor's
- [32:11]
Randall Miller
face, well, they have a preconceived notion of what they want and they don't think about the essence of what's going to come out of the spontaneity. There's like 80% is going to be the spontaneity of what you two guys are going to do together.
- [32:26]
Rob Mora
I worked with Marty Scorsese and he was acting, not directing. And he was nervous. And so I said, why? And I could tell he was like, it wasn't like comfortable, but I said, why do you do this? Like, why? And he said, because I want to know what you guys go through. And it was so cool, like. And I believe, you know, he just was like, I want to understand it. So when I'm standing on the other side, you know, because one of my pet peeves is, you know, you're doing an intimate scene with someone and There's a director 30 yards away behind a wall yelling, tell her. Touch her face nicely. Just touch her. You know, and you're like, okay, man. Just like ye.
- [33:04]
Randall Miller
Yeah. Okay, whisper that. What? Whisper it.
- [33:08]
Rob Mora
Right.
- [33:09]
Jeanine Turner
So, Randy, do you stand? Because I direct now too, and I'm curious. I. I like to stand right by the camera. Rob and I were always. Yeah, because you can really see their faces and whatnot. And. And you know, it's amazing when you work with people that aren't experienced. I'm like, okay, your eyeline has to follow. They're like, no, it doesn't. I'm like, yep, your eyeline needs to follow. I mean, it's just like I'm 63. I've been in the business a long time, but I mean, Stanny. Stanny. To look at the actors faces, do you do that or do you kind of go back and forth?
- [33:36]
Randall Miller
No, no, I don't. I. Because now I've done it long enough and I've done enough. I mean, I've edited movies, my own movies and stuff like that. So like, I know kind of what. As long as it's in focus. Because I can't tell if it's in focus from. They have to tell me it's in focus. But I know what the lens is doing. I know what lens does what? And, you know, what light does what? And so, like, the hardest part is seeing. You can't see the soul. You know, you can't feel the soul of the situation unless you're closer to the, to the actors. That's my opinion. Because you can't see, like, the little things, like the, like, it bothers me when, when there's blink, lots of blinking, because I can't feel the soul, you know? And so, like, the problem with being far away is you don't feel that at all.
- [34:27]
Rob Mora
Bruce Beresford, a director I work with a couple times, and he would sit. He would sit under the camera and just watch. And he'd. And he. And that's all he'd say is, don't blink. Don't blink. Just don't blink.
- [34:36]
Randall Miller
You know, I think I hate more than anything is. And people, People do this all the time. Like, you know, when you edit between shots, like, people have a blink right at the end of a shot and then they cut. And I'm like, you got to cut that blink out. Just cut that out. Because the, The. The connection is. Is severed for a moment.
- [34:55]
Jeanine Turner
It' Closure of the soul, right?
- [34:57]
Randall Miller
Something. It feels like. It feels like the person saying, okay, I'm done with you. Okay, now I'll tell you the next thing. Okay, I'm done with you. Okay, I'll tell you the next thing. Like, there's, There's a thing that happens between that moment.
- [35:08]
Rob Mora
Michael Caine never blinks. And he also looks in the, on, in, only in one eye of the actor.
- [35:15]
Jeanine Turner
That's awkward, though. Do that. Rob. Rob, do you look at one eye?
- [35:18]
Rob Mora
Because I, you know, if it's a very extreme close up, I might use that technique because it, that, you know, you just don't want any movement at all. But I tend to. I. I tend to look in both eyes. But if you look at Michael Skein's performances, which are. There are endlessly great performances. He, he. You can see that technique at work. But it worked for him, you know, so, I mean, everyone has to find their way.
- [35:40]
Jeanine Turner
It's like talking on the telephone. I remember I took a class in New York City, then when you talk on the telephone, you're always supposed to look up. And I thought, why?
- [35:47]
Randall Miller
The other thing, which, I don't know, you guys probably know this, but, like, you've worked with actors that know how to do this. But like with, with Alan Rickman, he knew how to make the camera be on him during a particular performance. Like, he knew how to make It. So you cannot cut between that line and that line. There's no way to cut.
- [36:07]
Jeanine Turner
Well, unless you're on Northern Exposure, because they will certainly cut away from you.
- [36:11]
Randall Miller
No, but I'm saying there's ways that these actors.
- [36:14]
Jeanine Turner
Extra line in that Josh wants.
- [36:16]
Randall Miller
They pause in a strange way or in a strange. You know, and they hold the scene. I think Sean Connery could do that. There were actors who knew how to do that.
- [36:26]
Jeanine Turner
You hold the scene with a level of passion and intensity and your thinking. And I think that one of the things they used to say about me on Northern Exposure is it took me about three or four takes to kind of click into gear, you know, like. So was your third and fourth take, you know, like. But also it was that I was a good listener, you know, that I would really listen well to people. But I think because I'm genuinely listening, the director's out of the head. Let me just end up be in the moment because. Okay, let me see. What it is, is living in the moment. Oh, I forgot,
- [36:58]
Randall Miller
like Sanisofsky or something. Okay.
- [37:00]
Jeanine Turner
No, what we talked about earlier, that Rob's thing about eternity. Living. Living in the. What is it, Rob? Living in the moment.
- [37:08]
Rob Mora
The present is the point in which time touches eternity.
- [37:11]
Jeanine Turner
PPT Point in the present is when time touches eternity. So if you're in the present, this could be work for acting. That's why you can't cut away.
- [37:22]
Rob Mora
Well, that's when it's thinking. But Meryl Streep talks about if you want it, you know, to break if you pause in the middle of a line, they can't cut away. So I think that's the Alan Rickman technique is, you know, so if you want to. If you want to hold that moment, you just say, like, well, here's the thing.
- [37:40]
Jeanine Turner
I.
- [37:41]
Rob Mora
You know, I want to throw out to Shelley just before we. To Cynthia Geary, because I thought she was so great in this episode. She got to be kind of down and dirty in a way. And there was this gravitas to her performance that it'll have to see if it tracks in the subsequent episodes. But in this particular episode, I think it really brought something interesting out in her. And she's got this great line when she catches Valerie, who's just this, you know, thief, you know, pickpocket. And she sees. She sees Valerie ripping off Ruthanne, who owns the little store that we have in the town. And she's. She tells. She says, I've seen the Good, the Bad and the Ugly, but Jackie wrote the Book, you know, and it's such a great. She says, it was such kind of weight. And so I just wanted to throw out to her that I thought her performance was really strong in this episode.
- [38:38]
Randall Miller
Well, she kind of takes a little bit of the personality of Valerie Perrine's character a little bit.
- [38:42]
Rob Mora
Absolutely.
- [38:43]
Jeanine Turner
It was so obvious that she didn't really know how to smoke a cigarette. Do you want to talk about Randy? Do you have any remembrances of at the pool table with the two of them standing there together?
- [38:52]
Randall Miller
No, but I remember her character from the show so much that she was so bubbly and friendly, and it was like trying to figure out a way to make it feel like that this dark thing, dark cloud, had come across her life and sort of started to change her. So it was trying to figure out ways to encourage her to go that direction, to still stay within her character of the show, but to try and take her.
- [39:17]
Jeanine Turner
How would you encourage her to do that? That.
- [39:19]
Randall Miller
Well, it was things like. I don't remember exactly what happened in the pool table, but I do remember the things like, you know, like the way you're going to drink the beer or the way you're going to, like, hold that pool cue, you know, you're going to do it in a way that, like, is like the other one, you know, or the way you. You act towards, you know, the way you look at someone. Take it, take it a different approach than what you normally do. Don't maybe smile exactly the same way that you did before. The things like that were just nuanced. Things that were just. Just, you know, not to say what to do, but to sort of give her, like, an idea of something she could do.
- [39:52]
Jeanine Turner
I always go with actors and say, think of something in your own life that correlates with this.
- [39:58]
Rob Mora
Yeah, that's the perfect.
- [39:59]
Randall Miller
What.
- [39:59]
Jeanine Turner
What have you been where. What did somebody do you wrong and you want to do. But also you had her do that pool table cue behind her back. Yeah, you kind of did the. That's probably along the lines of what you're talking about. It was a new type of thing for her to do.
- [40:14]
Randall Miller
Right. To try and make it feel like something different.
- [40:17]
Rob Mora
There's a couple cool music cues in the episode. You probably didn't choose them, but you might have chosen the last one. The Scott Joplin, the entertainer was probably added. But the show ends when they're dancing with this Brian Eno song. Lay My Love.
- [40:35]
Randall Miller
I think the show, you guys show always had this really cool music. And I remember the. I remember Martin, Bruce Lee. Yeah, I just remember the sort of. The ideas were always really cool, you know, and they give you, you know, choices or like, I don't remember the one I used for like the temp one to show the producers and stuff, but I remember them saying to me, go, go for something out there. Just go for whatever it is that you think would be really cool. They were not sort of held by certain, you know, pretenses like other shows and stuff. Like they wanted to be fresh and unique. I thought that was really cool.
- [41:15]
Rob Mora
Yeah, you got an episode that's got Scott Joplin and you've got Brian Eno. I mean, when does that happen?
- [41:21]
Jeanine Turner
And I think that's what goes back to the Chris in the Morning character in John Corbett is that was such a great tool as a writer. I mean, anyone who's writing everything, put a DJ type person in there because through that person you can speak the philosophy, you can speak poetry, you can talk about Jung or Freud or Walt Whitman or whatever you want. Thoreau through that kind of tool of a character. But also, I just think the casting was so right on. I mean, it's just John Corbett kind of was and is this kind of ethereal, happy person.
- [41:52]
Randall Miller
He was super friendly.
- [41:54]
Jeanine Turner
And I often wish that I was like Cynthia Gary, you know, because Cynthia Gary's just kind of like, you know, yeah, I went skiing today, man, it was fun. I wish I were not so int. You know, every day I like, I can't sleep. And I remember sitting in the trailer with her, like, I want to be like that. I want to lighten up. So, you know, and I was like, I want to just lighten up. Why can't I lighten up? And I'm always living in some state of angst.
- [42:20]
Randall Miller
But do you think in a way the character like you, you were the character or you became the character in your life, it's blended over to the rest of your life. Or was it. Or is it that your. You cared into that character because you talk like that character a little bit.
- [42:34]
Jeanine Turner
Except I smile more. I'm much more ebullient. I'm much more ebullient. I'm much more southern. You know, I smile, I perform, I hostess. You know what I mean? Maggie was much more serious. But I think we were all cast. Rob in his role and I in my role. We had to have that passion and that intensity and other characters had to have their light heartedness. And I don't know, the casting was just so spot on. It was kind of amazing to Watch. But I'll go back and just say that I thought Darren did a great job in this show too. Cynthia did, but so did Darren. Darren was, was really rooted. I love that scene between the two of them. And obviously, Randy, you had a big part in that with your fabulous directing and you couldn't look more like a director right now.
- [43:15]
Randall Miller
Well, you know, I'm wearing these glasses. They say, they say on the side. Don't they say on the side? They say, look at that. Don't look at me. It was like my kids picked them out for me. It's a company called Bonnie and Clyde, which, which my kids, they're recycled, full, recycled plastic. You know, know, whatever.
- [43:30]
Jeanine Turner
Randy, congratulations on your great career and, and the new resurgence of. We're glad we could bring back your, your great and talented contribution to Northern Exposure. And then I. Bottle Bottle.
- [43:43]
Randall Miller
Bottle Shock. Bottle shock's getting a 4K remaster. It's gonna, you know, it's the 50th anniversary of the Judgment of Paris, which is what it's based on. Where Napa got on the map. And it was the first thing that started California Wines. And, and it's the 20th anniversary of the movie and there's a. We made a game out.
- [44:01]
Jeanine Turner
And a musical.
- [44:02]
Randall Miller
And a musical, you know, because, you know, you really need these days with musicals. You need things that you, that you get into, you know, like there's going to be a wine tasting before you get up on stage. You know, if you pay extra or whatever you do the wine tasting, you know, and it's. You need things that engage an audience. You need things that are unique.
- [44:20]
Rob Mora
Thank you so much. It's. What a pleasure to have you.
- [44:23]
Randall Miller
Thank you.
- [44:24]
Jeanine Turner
Thank you for joining us today and for now we're going to wrap up and we'll see you next week. So goodbye from o' Connell and Fleischer.
- [44:37]
Randall Miller
Disclosure is a production with Evergreen podcasts
- [44:40]
Rob Mora
and executive produced by Paul Anderson and
- [44:42]
Randall Miller
Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.
- [44:56]
Jeanine Turner
Hi.
- [44:56]
Randall Miller
Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am
- [44:58]
Rob Mora
so excited to tell you about my new podcast series, It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my
- [45:06]
Randall Miller
acting work in television shows like the
- [45:08]
Rob Mora
Big Bang Theory, Leverage and Star the
- [45:11]
Randall Miller
Next Generation, or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one
- [45:16]
Rob Mora
of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated, including number one New York Times bestseller, Ready Player One one, John Scalzi's award winning Collapsing Empire trilogy, or even my
- [45:27]
Randall Miller
own best selling memoir, Still Just a Geek.
- [45:30]
Rob Mora
When I'm not reading stories.
- [45:32]
Randall Miller
I am listening to stories and I
- [45:34]
Rob Mora
was a massive fan of my friend and mentor LeVar Burton's podcast, LeVar Burton Reads. When he finished his final season, I
- [45:44]
Randall Miller
realized how much I missed it, so
- [45:46]
Rob Mora
I asked him if I could take
- [45:48]
Randall Miller
a shot at picking up where he
- [45:49]
Rob Mora
left the off and to my delight
- [45:51]
Randall Miller
he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot
- [45:56]
Jeanine Turner
of work, and absolutely worth it to
- [45:59]
Rob Mora
bring you incredible stories that I love
- [46:01]
Randall Miller
pulled from the pages of Uncanny Magazine,
- [46:04]
Rob Mora
Lightspeed on Spec, and others. You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who are being narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me as we travel together through time. I will take you to meet some gods.
- [46:19]
Randall Miller
We will watch people fall in and out of love and more.
- [46:24]
Rob Mora
It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton is available wherever you get your podcasts.
- [46:27]
Jeanine Turner
I hope you'll join me.