RERUN - S1E3: "Soapy Sanderson" with John Corbett

Summary

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Northern Disclosure – RERUN S1E3: “Soapy Sanderson” with John Corbett

Podcast: Northern Disclosure by Evergreen Podcasts
Date: December 30, 2025
Guests: Rob Morrow (Joel Fleischman), Janine Turner (Maggie O’Connell), John Corbett (Chris Stevens)

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Northern Disclosure, hosts Rob Morrow and Janine Turner revisit “Soapy Sanderson,” the third episode of Northern Exposure, and are joined by special guest and co-star John Corbett (Chris Stevens). There’s a heartfelt, playful, and deeply nostalgic dive into the making of the episode, the chemistry of the cast, behind-the-scenes stories, character analysis, and how the show shaped their careers and lives. The trio reflect on their early days on set, discuss their unique acting approaches, and reminisce about the serendipity that brought them together.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Revisiting "Soapy Sanderson"

[02:06]

• The group agrees that “Soapy Sanderson” is pivotal for developing character arcs, especially Maggie’s backstory and the dynamic between her and Joel.
• Janine highlights the signature push-pull of Maggie and Joel’s relationship, picking out a favorite fiery line:

  "You're the most vile, odious, pernicious waste of corporal souls I've ever had the misfortune to lay my eyes on."
  — Janine Turner quoting Maggie [03:52]

2. Character Chemistry and Performance

[03:10]–[05:06]

• Rob and Janine discuss the “charged” emotional acting in the Joel-Maggie scenes, emphasizing their commitment to playing each moment with passion and authenticity.
• Rob gives credit to cinematographer Jimmy Heyman for the episode’s moody, beautiful lighting, noting the "Bergman of the North" visual approach.

3. Welcoming John Corbett: Life Before & After Chris Stevens

[07:05]–[10:47]

• John Corbett shares it’s been decades since he’d last watched the show, making this rewatch especially poignant.
• He recounts his uncertain career path before Northern Exposure, nearly quitting acting until the show came along.
• Fascinating serendipity: both John and Janine reveal they almost starred together in another Tom Selleck pilot, “Heat” — a flop that freed them up for Northern Exposure.

"Had I gotten that show, I would have never met you guys. And I don't think I'd be an actor today."
— John Corbett [11:29]

4. Casting Stories & First Encounters

[13:41]–[18:54]

• John vividly recalls auditioning against John Gries (now of White Lotus), finding out he got the part from a voicemail as soon as he got home.
• A recollection of the first table read and group dinner: the cast immediately sensed they had something special.

5. Origin of Chris Stevens’ Look & Approach

[19:44]–[22:31]

• John reveals Chris’ signature headband and wardrobe were mostly his own; this authenticity bled into the character.
• The writers’ intellectual references—C. G. Jung, Freud, Whitman—gave Chris his Philosopher-DJ persona, a role John both inhabited and extended with his real self.

"In my first season, almost every item of clothing I wore was my own... I was really like, I'm just kind of memorizing some lines and being myself in a weird way."
— John Corbett [20:50]

• Janine positions Chris as the show's philosophical anchor—"the Plato" of Cicely.

6. Behind the Scenes: Acting Methodologies

[59:48]–[62:51]

• The actors candidly discuss their differing on-set processes:
  • Corbett: Stopped reading scripts in advance for freshness; would memorize monologues the morning of shooting.
  • Morrow: Deep preparation, reading every script, knowing scenes thoroughly in advance.
  • Turner: Emotion-driven, “sensory acting” method focusing on the emotional state and room before dialogue.
• The hosts agree the contrast in their approaches contributed to the show's unique chemistry.

"None of our approaches is the approach. It worked for each of us, but it created something...the tensions that were created by the different approaches is what made it magical."
— Rob Morrow [63:59]

7. Memorable Episode Moments

[29:32]–[38:24]

• John describes Maggie as unexpectedly sultry and “girlish” in the wine/fireplace scene—a sharp contrast to her guarded persona.
• The three praise guest actor John McLiam (“Soapy Sanderson”) and note the poignancy of his performance.
• Discussion of classic "Northern Exposure" humor, such as the scene where Soapy’s ashes accidentally blow into people’s faces.

8. Ed Chigliak and the Documentary Film Crew

[40:09]–[41:42]

• They highlight Darren Burrows' (Ed) layered performance and Ed’s origin story as a burgeoning filmmaker, finding inspiration in a visiting documentary crew.
• The layering of plotlines—romance, Soapy’s will, and the film crew—exemplifies the show’s quirky, multidimensional storytelling.

9. Pranks, Keepsakes & Set Memories

[41:59]–[48:28]

• John tells the hilarious story of how he “stole” the set’s moose head (with the blessing of production designer Woody Crocker), smuggling it over a fence to avoid a hefty rental fee.
• Rob reveals he kept character props including Joel’s medical ring and stethoscope.
• John and Rob both kept boxes of episode dailies/footage, including candid pre- and post-take moments.

10. The Show’s Tone & Ethics

[54:04]–[55:10]

• The hosts discuss the writers’ refusal to be “precious” with any characters, often flipping expectations, but always with warmth, never malice:

"You could murder someone, you could steal, you could take someone's wife...as long as there was no malice."
— Rob Morrow, paraphrasing co-creator Joshua Brand [54:25]

11. Impact on Careers & Reflections

[66:35]–[68:13]

• Each actor shares how Northern Exposure changed their lives:
  • Corbett: Gained fame, financial security, and a foundation for his whole career.
  • Turner: Achieved her dream of playing a “serious” role.
  • Morrow: Developed as an actor and director, gained life and career experience.

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Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• Janine’s legendary insult:

  "You're the most vile, odious, pernicious waste of corporal souls I've ever had the misfortune to lay my eyes on." [03:52]

• On the unpredictability of set life:

  "I see a performance...I couldn't do that performance now. It would be sort of too thought out, you know, so my… amateur standing for me, paid off."
  — John Corbett [33:53]

• On feeling old:

  "I am now at the age that he [John McLiam as Soapy] was when he played Soapy."
  — John Corbett [31:16]

• On the core of Chris Stevens:

  "I was always kind of a consulare for Dr. Joel Fleischman. And I don't feel like there was another guy on there that you could relate to."
  — John Corbett [22:31]

• The moose head caper:

  "I stole that moose...but I did it with permission...As soon as you entered Maurice's cabin...it was to the left. I said...that would sure look good in my house."
  — John Corbett [42:13]

• Reflections on working environment:

  "We were an acting troupe. It was like, we were like a traveling...we all had to live in the same city...the camaraderie that we had, that we were all sort of fish out of water in a new place."
  — Janine Turner [68:45]

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Important Episode Segments & Timestamps

• [01:06] — Show introduction and context
• [05:52] — Intro to John Corbett & career background
• [10:47] — John & Janine: Both nearly starred in Tom Selleck's "Heat"
• [16:14] — First group dinner & reading memories
• [20:50] — Chris Stevens’ wardrobe and headband origins
• [31:16] — John is now the same age as John McLiam was as Soapy
• [41:59] — The moose head smuggling story
• [48:33] — Discussion of episode dailies and BTS footage
• [54:25] — Show’s rule: “No malice” in character actions
• [59:48] — The actors compare their acting approaches
• [66:35] — Reflections on how the show changed their lives
• [68:45] — Camaraderie from filming outside L.A.

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Overall Tone & Takeaways

Warm, candid, and filled with both deep affection and irreverent humor, this episode is a perfect nostalgia trip for Northern Exposure fans and an illuminating masterclass in ensemble acting, 1990s television production, and the lasting impact of honest, ensemble storytelling.

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Next Episode Preview: Barry Corbin joins the hosts next week to share more stories from Cicely, Alaska.

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Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Welcome to Northern Disclosures. I'm Rob Mara and this is the beautiful Jeanine Turner. We, we've been doing this now this is our third episode, but you're gonna see a lot of smiles today because I know one of my favorite people on the planet is joining us and I'm pretty sure Janine feels the same too.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so every episode we, we look at a different episode from the show. So now we're up to episode three, which we're gonna talk about and then kind of go wherever. Cause when you talk to John Corbett, you never know where the topic's gonna go. And that's the fun of it. And how you doing, Jeanine? You look very adorable with your, with your blonde hair and your groovy glasses.

[A]

My groovy. My hair changes like every show so it'll be a different color next week. I love it.

[B]

I love the kind of, just the wildness of it. It looks cute.

[A]

This is my wild look. This is my curlers didn' a totally dry look. This is what this is.

[B]

Well, I like it anyway.

[A]

It's so fun to be with you again, Rob. I'm absolutely loving doing this and, and to be able to watch these episodes again and to bring in super, super crass members and, and to relive this glorious experience and, and I thought that Soapy Sanderson was a really good episode.

[C]

I agree.

[B]

I, I watched it last night and you know, it's funny because I think I've said this before is because of the perspective I have now. I see it differently. I see everyone else. First of all, everyone's just I'm just so. Everyone's so beautiful. And I don't mean that just physically. I mean, there's something. Each of the people on the show had a kind of beauty in their soul and. And seeing that from a. I can see it from a distance, you know, we had our. Our, you know, the daily workings with people. You get. You kind of lose perspective. And so. And yeah, and I think that was interesting about that show for me, was it really set up the Joel. Maggie dynamic. You know, how they would come close and then go apart. And every time Joel would give a compliment, he would take it away with.

[A]

Some stupid remark, and so would Maggie o'. Connell's. It's like, oh, wait, we flirted. Didn't really mean it. Didn't really mean it. But it was a nice arc, I thought. Each episode, especially in the beginning, introduces another character. So, you know, this was sort of Maggie's kind of introduction, I think, with the whole soapy sanderson. But the arc that. That Maggie took from letting her guard down and having the bottle of wine together and this sexual kind of quality, and then. Then back on her heels again and pushing you away. And that scene later, which had my favorite line in it, Rob, that I always talk about. I know that you're the most ready for it. You ready for it? It's the one line I remembered, okay. You're the most vile, odious, pernicious waste of corporal souls I've ever had the misfortune to lay my eyes on.

[B]

And then later I say, well, you're right about everything except the odious part.

[A]

But that was. That. That. That was all of my sort of intense sensory acting there. Boy, I'm like, woo. I really pulled out the. The emotion in that scene. That scene was charged when I.

[B]

You had a lot of good emo. You had. I mean, you were there going on with you in a lot of those scenes, for sure. I definitely was clocking. I could see, you know, it was deep. You were going to a deep place, and it worked well.

[A]

You know, I find that the one thing that all of us cared about, all the actors and is that is bringing our best and most passionate selves to the moment. None of us walked through what we did. We always made choices and really cared and wanted. And what I find is when my fellow actor is so emotionally charged like that, then it charges me, you know, it's like a battery. And then. Then. And I thought. I thought that. That you always bring an emotional charge like that. And so that's what made the. The Electricity work so well.

[B]

Absolutely. And I just want to tip my hat to Jimmy Heyman because it was so beautiful. I mean, the sh. The. And I mean, obviously, when you're outside in that landscape, it's not that hard to create beauty, but inside those sets, you know, the scene, the wine scene that you were talking about, which is a great scene. I mean, it's a very unique scene for television. How long it was and. And how it just kind of. And floated. But the. What they call Chia Scarra, the lighting, you know, was so beautiful. So. So hats off to Jimmy, who will have to get on as a. As a guest at some point.

[A]

Yes. Well, that last shot of Darren at the end talking about being the Bergman of the north, you know, the black and kind of. That kind of Rembrandt look. It was really, really beautiful.

[B]

So should we. Without further ado, I think we should. So y' all know John Corbett forever. He's gone on to have this great career, most recently the City, but personally, he. I. I had such a great time, and I have. I could literally do an hour myself, easily telling great stories about John and. And how important he was to me. He's a. He's a unique, dear soul and. And a. And a fascinating guy. And so maybe. Janine, you want to say something about him before we bring him in?

[A]

Yes, I would say that. That with. With John Corbett, it. It's. It's like you always have a special place in your heart for John. He is. He is such a talented actor and a dear human being. That kind of sweetness, that intellect, the. The emotional depth, all that. You saw, that quirkiness, you know, that all that was John. I remember John wasn't, you know, wanted to let his hair grow. You know, it made. Everybody's like, oh, my God. He goes, no, I'm gonna let my hair grow. You know, and then they did the episode where they cut it, but that groovy, cool quality, everything combined, but what a. What a wonderful person. And working with John was an absolute joy. So.

[B]

So let's bring him out. Johnny.

[C]

Yay. I'll shuffle it. I'll shuffle in from.

[B]

Thank you.

[C]

Thank you. Thank you for the sweet words, you two. It's so, so nice to see you. You know, for the audience.

[B]

We.

[C]

We had a little chat right before, so this isn't the first time we're saying hi, but it was just a few minutes long. It's so good to see you guys. I can't believe it. And I was saying, it's been 10 years since I've seen Rob in person and 20 plus for Janine, and it's really fun. I'm so happy to be a part of this. I'm not a guy who does a lot of going back, and I haven't seen these shows since our show ended in 95. And even for a while, they played on A and E, E. And I know. You know, what is it on now? Amazon. They've been on Amazon for a little while. But I just. I didn't. I don't know what it is. I just didn't. You know, it's like having a box of pictures from. From high school. You know, they're in your garage some. You rarely dig them out and go through them. And it's kind of like. Like that for me because a lot of it's up here. But I. I discovered in our back and forth that I had to watch Soapy Sanderson. I wasn't even sure what Soapy Sanderson was. I couldn't really remember what that episode was. There's some that were really iconic, you know, the flinging the piano and things like that, or running naked. But. So when I popped this thing in, I watched it with the wife. I said, I gotta watch this thing. Will you check it out with me? I didn't remember most of it. You know, it just was sort of blurry. I didn't remember this director, Stephen Craig.

[B]

And maybe other reasons why it was blurry as well.

[C]

No, no, no.

[B]

It's just.

[C]

It's time. I think it's the acclamation of time going by. And so it was. And there is an opportunity for me to say maybe I was working or something when it originally aired. Because, you know, back then, if you didn't set your vcr in the 90s, we had to work on Mondays a lot. And I missed a few episodes, so it could have been a combination of all those. But, man, what a treat to. Just to see this and see our progression. And like I told you earlier, I made a lot of notes about a lot of scenes, so we can get in that. But this, you know, if you didn't ask me to be on this show, I doubt if I would have looked at it. And coincidentally, we went back and watched the first one and then the second one just in the last couple days, because I said, let's get all caught up so I can really. And I didn't remember much about the first one. I didn't remember that. Any of the scenes of Joe getting to Alaska, you know, on the plane and how you got there and going to. Where'd you end up in Juneau first or Anchorage?

[B]

Anchorage.

[C]

I couldn't remember how you got to Sicily, actually. So it was really great to see those shows.

[B]

Yeah, John, so you've been. You've been doing a bunch of other stuff, but do you remember how you got the gig? Like, do you remember, like, what you. What, what led to you being on the show and.

[A]

Yeah, I was thinking about that. I'll just interject. I was thinking about that question. I'm glad you asked it, Rob. Like, what had you done before? And, you know, had you just. Were you in Hollywood and had you just gotten there? I was. I'm intrigued about that as well.

[C]

Yeah, I'd been in Hollywood for about. I've been in Hollywood for about five years. I'd stud acting for a couple years at a junior college. And then in 8583 to 85 85, I moved to Hollywood and was taking acting classes like five nights a week and on the weekends. I was working the spotlight at the Groundlings when Jon Lovitz was there and Phil Hartman and auditioning. And really, I wasn't getting anywhere. I got a show in 88, the fourth episode of the Wonder Years. Like our show. Yeah. Before it was on tv, you know, I didn't know what we. How special this whole show was, but it was a great guest star and then nothing. And so by the time our show happened, I was. I was ready to think about doing something else because I'd given it the old college try for five years and, you know, just. It wasn't, it wasn't going to happen.

[B]

Were you cutting hair or something?

[C]

I was. I went to hair school and I did. Yeah, I was in.

[A]

I worked for that.

[C]

Yeah, I worked that. I worked in a hair salon. And I told this. I worked with Stanley Tucci a couple years ago, and I told him that I really owe my career to him, and here's why. And Jeanine, probably. I feel like Jeanine has a connection to this somehow. But Tom Selleck was going to do a pilot called Heat, right. Where he was the producer. And I got so close to this show. It came down to me and one other guy, this guy Stanley Tucci. And I mean, I had four or five meetings with Selec, and it shot in Hawaii Detective Pilot. And I was devastated that I didn't get it. But here's what happened. One week later, they said, there's this news show, you know, because I've been making the rounds to cbs and you Know, in that circle, Northern Exposure, we'd like you to come in and read for it. And that's how that happened. So. And the Stanley Tutsi pilot, Heat pilot, they never did anything with it. So had I gotten that show, I would have never met you guys. And I don't think I'd be an actor today. I don't think I would have hung in there. Because if this show didn't come along and change my life, I just didn't have the tenacity to stick with it, you know, and keep trying. And, you know, if the failure, rejection wasn't something I could do. So I ended up going down with another actor. It was the two of us. We ended up down at that thing in the bottom of cbs. Rob wasn't there. Yeah, what's that? You know, when you go to the network, you go to the network. And so it was me and an actor named John Gries who's on the show the White Lotus. Now he's the bald headed guy on the White Lotus, if you ever watch.

[B]

Oh, he's so great.

[C]

He's great. He's the White Lotus. And we changed numbers and we were making friends and I had to go in and read first. John Cullen was there, Darren was there, and I think that was it from our cast. And by the time I got home to my little house in Toluca Lake, the first beep on my machine was John Gries saying, well, I guess you got it, because I didn't. And the next beep was my little, small, little agent saying, you got this show. And that's how it happened.

[A]

Oh, my God, Rob, if I can step in here. I cannot believe. I cannot believe. Okay, I don't know how much the audience knows or if you've listened to every episode. I was up for Heat too.

[C]

I thought so. Yes, I thought you were up for that show.

[A]

Yes, I was up for the female lead. And I was a lawyer. And I thought, okay, this is what I've been working for all these years and it's not a TNA bathing suit role. And I'm so excited. And they did the deal and they flew me out to Los Angeles and I had to go meet Universal Studios first because that was a Universal project, which is why probably you and I were both on the list, you know, and that's where I had that story where I was lying down in the bathroom doing my relaxation and the executive stepped over me in the bathroom. But anyway, anyway, we'll digress that today.

[C]

But imagine if we both got that Show. I know, because I was, I was.

[A]

I didn't get it. I didn't get it. And I was devastated. And I flew home back to New York City and I cried and I was ready to give up. And, And I remember this little voice which you can say, it's higher power God, whatever. It said, don't let anybody put out your flame. Because I was at rock bottom. And I always tell that story about the Tom Selleck pilot with Stanley Tucci, because if it wasn't even picked up, it never made network. And look, you and I had the wherewithal to show up for that one last audition for Northern Exposure, and it changed everything. But I cannot believe you and I were both up for Heat. I didn't remember the name of it, so.

[B]

John, that's amaz. I mean, it's, it's, it's wild. The both that, that you both were there and then that. That's what led. If you weren't up for that show as well, you wouldn't have been on this show, which is wild. Johnny, what do you remember from showing up? We, we, we. We've talked a couple times about that first read through, which is, I guess where we all met. I mean, I met Janine before, but I remember going to dinner, the three of us. Matt Nodella took us to dinner.

[C]

At.

[B]

One of those, Those kind of seafood, Northwestern, you know, seafood places. I don't know if it was before the reading or after, but it was just for some reason, just the three of us. You guys remember that?

[C]

I do, yeah. I have some pictures from it. I had my little.

[A]

Did I go?

[B]

You did, yeah. Because. Yeah, absolutely.

[C]

Barry was there. Barry had a, A tan cowboy hat on and a tan suit, looking very.

[A]

At the reading or at dinner?

[B]

At the reading.

[A]

At the reading. Okay.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I do, I do remember. I, I remember on the plane ride up from LA that Barry was sitting in the very first seat and I was right behind him and I could hear him talking. He's like, oh, hey, how's everybody doing? And I thought, oh, man, that's the guy from War Games. I had no idea that he was coming to do our show. You know, I just thought, man, I love that guy. And I didn't put two and two together. And it wasn't until we got to the. That first reading, like, that's the guy.

[B]

But I remember, I remember you being. I. It's funny the things that come back. I remember how enthusiastic you were after the reading. I don't think you. Not before, but after you were like, you were jazz. You knew we had something cool.

[C]

Yeah, well, listen, this was. So what I did for those five years also was a lot of extra work. I mean, I, I was on every set you can imagine. I was, I was a regular extra on Chips and Cagney and Lacy. So what I did was I used that experience as, As a learning tool. So instead of, you know, complaining with all the other extras, I watched everybody. By the time we got to Northern Exposure, I knew everybody's job. I knew everything about being on a set. So it might. So in a lot of ways, like, those first few episodes was no different for me than being an extra. But, you know, in a couple of those first ones, I only, I had a few lines, you know, because I, I, I just knew. I knew everything about being on set, so I wasn't uncomfortable being there, you.

[A]

Know, and we all knew, we all knew how special it was in that reading. I remember the reading, and I remember after the reading just thinking, there's something really special this. And, you know, it's funny that you would say that. You knew, you. I think you. And you saw Barry Corbin and. But I had worked with John Cullum. I had worked with John on A Quantum Leap, and it was Mana La Mancha, Mana La Mancha. And so he and I had connected on that show, and I was just in love with him as well. And so it was fun that I could see him again. I actually knew him when we got there.

[B]

What did you. John. You know, I have to say, and I've said this before, Chris is one of my favorite characters ever on television, and he was my favorite character on the show. And the, the combination of you and what they wrote was just the synergy that created something magical. You know, the thing I learned from Chris, like, there was constantly stuff that he would say in monologues, in his, in on the, on the, on his. When he was DJing, that I would then write down and go, I gotta read that book or I gotta read that poet or.

[C]

What.

[B]

How did, when you first started kind of working on the character, what was your first. Did you. Because he, as you said, like, he. At the first couple episodes, we didn't. Well, the second episode, we get a sense of who he is, but he grew like, yeah. What was your initial kind of feelings and thoughts about it?

[C]

You know, it's funny, after that first reading for the, you know, the network brass, and I was out in the parking lot at CBS talking to John Grice, saying goodbye, and I rode my motorcycle there Because I lived in Toluca Lake, and that was the easiest way for me to always get around. And so when we got to the set, John, Josh Brand said, hey, I saw you in a parking lot when we were leaving by your motorcycle. And he said, and you were putting a headband on, because this was before wearing helmets, Right? This is the 90s. So I didn't wear. And he goes, it look great. He goes, anytime you want to wear that, you know, you can go ahead and put that on. You look good in it. And so that's how I started wearing the headbands. But the funny thing is, with Katherine Bentley, when we started talking about the.

[B]

Clothes, she said, rest in peace.

[C]

Rest in peace. I know, I know. Barry Corbin, you know, we talk about four times a year, Barry and I. And he told me that Katherine went to her big reward in the sky.

[A]

Yeah. You know what? I think your. What? I think your character was John. And that's so cool to know about the headband story, because I was.

[C]

But here's the other. Here's where I was gonna finish. Catherine said, hey, bring your clothes. So in my first season, almost every item of clothing I wore was my own. Was my own. You know, I brought all my own shirts and necklaces and all that. So I was really like, I'm just kind of memorizing some lines and being myself in a weird way. You know what I mean? It was strange.

[A]

You know, I just had this thought that your character, John, was sort of the Plato, you know, the philosopher, the depth of soul. And everyone who sat by you in episode three, even with Soapy Sanderson, you know, Fleischman goes to speak to Corbett, like, what am I gonna do about this, o'? Connell? You know, what am I gonna do about this situation? And you gave him advice. Everybody was going to your character for advice. And I think that that was the greatness of the writing with your character, was that they could, you know, talk about Freud or Jung or Walt Whitman or that was their sort of megaphone, ironically, right? For this kind of intellectual stimulation that you really didn't see on other shows. This kind of the quirkiness and all those records. I mean, it was also the opportunity to bring in the music. And in episode three, that quirky, you know, bluegrass, country music that was brought in, but you were able to bring, I guess, also your sense of self. And Josh. We had Josh on last week. He talked about that a little bit. Like, I wrote it, but then y' all brought what you brought to it. You brought a lot of obviously what we're learning. A lot of your own sense of self to that character. Where do you think you differ from Chris? Where does John differ from Chris?

[C]

You know, not a lot. But you just said something that made me think of, you know, Rob's character, Dr. Fleischman. If you think about Fleischman, he didn't really have another man on the show that he could kind of connect with. You know, he wasn't going to connect, you know, like a friend with Darren or Hauling, really, or Maurice. And so that scene in particular in the radio station, when we're sitting there, you know, we're just kind of a couple guys talking. I think that set up our relationship throughout the thing. I don't ever remember us having an adversarial relationship or having a hurdle that we had to cross. I feel like I was always kind of a consulare for Dr. Joe Fleischman. And I don't feel like there was another guy on there that you sort of of could relate to, do you?

[B]

No, I think it was definitely. It became the basis of their relationship was kind of, I mean, your kind of philosophical ideas. And Fleischman, you know, was bent that way too. He's an intellectual. So I think they met on that, on that plane. But you know what's interesting? I'm always thinking about how the characters inform our lives and the lives inform our characters. And, you know, as we're talking about this, I'm remembering, I so distinctly remember when we first started doing photo shoots. I was the serious actor, or so I thought, out of New York, you know, and they'd be like, smile. And I'd be like, you know, and they couldn't. And then they realized that when John was around, he just, as he always does, he gets a smile on my face. And so they would have him be off camera for the photo shoots because he could make me laugh or smile in the same way that, that, that, that, that Chris would make Joel have some insight. You know, John would, would give me sign, kind of like, oh, like, lighten up. Take it easy in this world. You know, we're having a good time. And I, I, I learned that, I learned that there. It was just interesting.

[C]

I can remember that those group shots and, and you know how it is when somebody laughs at your jokes, you. It encourages you to try to do it even harder. And so you would really have a big belly laugh. You, me trying to make you laugh more. Janine, I think.

[B]

And they snap away, you know, and then they just snap away.

[C]

And then we Have a calendar out and you've got to be showing all the pearly whites, you know, because you're laughing at one of my jokes. But Janine, I think the three of us, our characters are, are just a little bit of an extension of who, who we are. You, you know, a little bit Rob and, and Barry and Janine and John Cullum and Cynthia for that matter, and me, you know, we're not too different. The one guy is Darren Burroughs. If there's one character that's nothing in real life like his character in any way, that kid should have won an Emmy year after year for his performance. I mean, because that's a real transition, you know, that kid, remember, he was always smoking cigarettes and he had a big cackle, you know, Darren, you know, and just, you know, making these. What an authentic guy he is, you know, Listen, when we ended the show, Darren's hair was, you know, 95. His hair was down the middle of his back. He had grown it for the last couple years. And we were done for about two weeks. And he called me up, said, hey, will you come over and cut my hair? I want to shave all my hair off. So I went over to his house, you know, he was married by that point. And I put his hair in a big ponytail and I cut it off and I shaved his head. And then about, I don't know, six months later, I saw him and his hair had grown out to maybe my length, but it was blonde. This was two different people. He looked nothing like Ed Chigliak, you know. So, Janine. Yeah. I think the three of us, you know, you and Maggie aren't that separate and you and Joe aren't. You know, me and Chris, we're kind of in that same thing.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an interesting point.

[D]

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[A]

Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[C]

And breathe.

[A]

Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order. Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts. Yeah, I think Maggie was. My mother used to say to me, I don't recognize. I don't know. That's not you. You know, I don't. I think I'm much more. More ebullient than Maggie was. I mean, Maggie was much more serious, you know, And I tend to have this kind of loud laugh and this kind of Texas ebullience and a kind of a big personality. But where. I think. Where I think we're. But I do love the outdoors. And I am definitely always kind of fighting the good fight for justice. You know what I mean?

[C]

Yeah. Well, in all my notes, I was talking about the. The scene. Where is it. Where. Where you guys are. See, I was going in line here. When you guys. Okay.

[A]

Are.

[C]

Okay. In the celebration dinner. I've. I wrote down. Maggie is so girlish. Especially when you're saying, like, you know, the. The. The Hundred Acre Wood, you know, Winnie Pooh, the way you're batting your eyes. And I'm like, you are just so sexy in that scene. I mean, you know, once again, it's when you guys move into. After the wine's gone. And you were right with the cinematography. And now the fireplace is going. And just the way. Jeanine. I've never. I'd have to watch the rest of the shows, but the way they captured you. And you, too, Rob. Here's the funny thing about you two. You're very similar in height. Back then. You had the same color hair. Your profiles are damn near the same with these sharp noses. And when you're side to side, it's almost like a mirror image of.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

The two of you. But, Janine, you are just laying it on so sexy in that scene with your little pauses and you're ready to leave and Rob's trying to explain himself, and you're like, oh, you're not. I am. Oh. I've never seen you for some reason, for the rest of the episodes. I remember you always having a little border up against. Until later when you two are together. But for the first couple seasons, that's the sexiest and girlish I've seen you.

[B]

Yeah, it's very sultry. That whole sequence was very sultry.

[A]

Yeah, it was fun. It was. I loved. I loved it, especially that episode, because there were so many different elements they allowed Maggie, to have. You know, you saw a lot of different colors in that episode, between the defiance at the end and the emotional heartache and the kind of depth of spirit. But you also saw that kind of sensuousness and the girliness and. Yeah, they did. They did sort of put that in the. Put that in the back burner a lot because they didn't want Fleischman and I to kind of, you know, culminate our relationship too soon. So it always had to be kind of this facade of our attraction to keep the energy going.

[C]

Hey, now, there's. The show's called Soapy Sanderson. And I wanted to talk. Cause I looked this up. Cause I didn't know. But right off the bat, I'm thinking, this actor who's playing Soapy, and his name was John McCliam, right? And here's the fucking. Here's the. Here's the weirdest part of the whole thing. I am now at the age that he was when he played Sophie.

[A]

We thought he was so old.

[C]

I know we thought he was old, but he's so handsome. In fact, when I looked him up, ours. His career starts in 1952, almost with the advent of television, and the list of credits is a mile long. But here's the interesting thing. Ours is the second to last credit. And then he died just a couple years after he shot it. So ours was the second to last credit. But this guy was so present, you know, I hate to see him be gone because I think he would have been a great addition to the show. I mean, when Joel says, like, I want you to go home and think about, well, his laugh when you guys are bickering off camera and he's got this profile, you know, that's hard stuff to do. That's a veteran actor right there. But when you say, you gotta think about the future, and he goes, his eyes light up and he goes, I'm gonna do that. But then he gets real sinister and he says, but you've gotta promise to do the same. You know, it's just a flash for a second, you know what I mean? And, God, I wanted that guy to be in the show.

[B]

He's great. What do you like when you look at you, Chris, in that episode? What I mean, was there stuff you like or dislike or stuff that surprised you about what was going on with him? What. What did.

[C]

What.

[B]

What's your. Because you said you didn't watch. I recently, for a project, watched every episode. So I've kind of reminded of what the show was and It's a trip. So you're just watching this, you said maybe possibly for the first time ever, but definitely for the first time since it aired.

[C]

Yeah, well, the thing is that, you know, by that time I'd done tons of scenes. I'd done seven or eight plays. You know, I felt like I was a, you know, a lot of people, because I had only done the one thing. Thought I was, you know, a bit of a rube who just rode in off the turnip truck and who didn't know what he was doing. And a lot of it was a happy accident, but most of it was. Was pre planned, you know. And then, you know, the old acting thing where you sort of throw it away. But I see a guy now, after being a veteran for 40 years, I see a performance, especially in the one before where I was in a little bit more with the radio, Walt Whitman stuff. I see a guy who. I couldn't do that performance now. It would be sort of too thought out, you know, so my call it amateur standing for me, you know, paid off in that, you know, my downfall.

[B]

I didn't follow you. I didn't follow you. So it was too thought out then. And now you'd be much more fly off the seat of your pants.

[C]

No reverse, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I wouldn't be able now to have that kind of throwaway thing. You know, I'd be sort of posing now and knowing that I could turn like this, you know, and I wasn't really aware of the camera, even though I was an extra and I knew kind of where the camera was as an extra, etc, you know, every little thing now, this hand would be thought out.

[B]

That's a great point because I noticed now you'll see if you watched through the 100 episodes or whatever, like, you know, me too, I have the same feeling of like, I couldn't capture that innocence. I was so innocent about it. And then by the fifth season, I'm like talking very soft and I'm like not moving a lot. You know, it's like we were.

[A]

Joshua Brand talked about that when we got together for the ABC Good Morning America Peace a while back. And he said y' all were just babies, you know, you were just babies. And you know, because now Josh is probably, you know, 70s something. We're 60s and, and we were, we were, we were young. I mean, we were 20 in our, you know, we were. We were young and it was fresh and it was our first thing. And we weren't. We were just, we. We were just thinking about the Work probably more than we were thinking about the results of where we were, which.

[B]

Is John's point, I think. Right. That's his point. It's like, now we're like, you know, professionals, and we know how to do dial in.

[C]

And especially those first. You know, anybody who's going to watch these first bunch of episodes, don't forget, we would. We didn't know what the show was because we hadn't seen the show. I remember not even knowing, you know, is this supposed to be kind of funny? Is it a drama? Because it's, you know, shot in a couple minute increments. We haven't seen anything linked together yet. We haven't seen scenes. I don't remember. There was no playback for us. So, you know, we didn't. We didn't know what the show was by Sophie Sanderson. It's just, you know, and I wasn't around for the first one, and even though I'm sort of talked about in the second one, I had a couple scenes. I had a scene with you by the lake and really one with Maurice. So I was by this one, and I'm not in this one a lot. But it's so funny in this one, too, because I have this memory of they wanted me around always, whenever there was some action out in town. So, you know, for the people that are watching, we had to drive two hours from Seattle to hit this little town that became Sicily, which was really called Roslyn. And so I saw this in this episode because in my mind, it's like, man, I used to walk around in the bar while scenes were happening and go behind the bar and pour drinks. Less so as the episodes went on. But in this one in particular, when you're sitting in the brick, there I go in the back. I'm back there where Holling would be, and I'm serving drinks and I'm being an extra. And then when that film crew shows up out in Rosslyn, they do this walk and walk by in town, and you barely see the radio station because it's up above and they're down below. But there I am sitting in the radio station for this walk and talk. It's like I used to have to drive all the way out there to just be an extra, to sit in the radio station without complaints. You know, you were amazing.

[B]

You were always a jovial presence. You never complained. And what's a real testament to you and to the character is how I don't think they necessarily knew how important he became. I mean, a fan certainly. A fan favorite, but I don't think they realized that. And so as you started to inhabit that character, they started to write for you. And then eventually, you know, it was significant stuff, always.

[A]

Even though you were in the tiny speck in the background of that, it was the music they were playing, right? And so they needed to know that your presence was kind of in there because they were gonna play some great music underneath it, and you represented the music of the town. And so I think that that's one of the reasons you probably had to be there for that, because all that underlying music was just so wonderful. Including in this particular episode, especially when. When, you know, Soapy dies, he leaves his collection of bluegrass country music. And that gave them the opportunity to play all of these great old 1950s, 60s country songs. And that scene, Rob, that you have in the brick, where Shelly's finally being introduced as well, you know, Genius.

[C]

Genius.

[A]

She was so great. And then you're like, can you turn it down a little more?

[D]

A little more.

[A]

A little more, A little more. And the great thing is, was the innocent of all of our characters, you know, because Shelly's like, oh, okay. She didn't say, well, really, we need to have some music. She just. You want it off? Oh, yeah, okay. You know, and then she wanders off. But you were the conduit, John. I think your character for the philosophy, for the. You know, the genius, the music and the kind of the sounding more. As I say, you were sort of the Plato of the character. But talk to us a little bit about. And then I want to talk about that film crew. You talked about the film crew coming in, which was a great. One of the things I think the show had was we had so many layers. We, as the actors, we had so many layers, but the writing had so many layers. And here you've got this obvious storyline of Fleischman and o' Connell and the kind of everything they're going through with this particular episode of their sexuality and their parlance and their disagreements. But then on top of that, you've got this film crew coming in, which was hilarious. You know, get a shot of the dirt. Is this real dirt? What kind of dirt is this? And, you know. And Darren, Ed says, wet. You know what I mean? Get a shot of the dirt. But that was one of the fun things that could. And then that they could add to the whole show. And they're filming. When you and I, Rob, are having that moment, you're the most vile, odious, pernicious waste of corpuscles I've ever had the misfortune to lay my eyes on that scene. Anyway, when I walk out and close the door. And then Darren goes, wow, that was great. You know, because they got the footage.

[C]

You know, that's very important this episode, because it's Darren's origin story, I think, for where he's going to discover. He says it at the end, my life will never be the same. I'll never look at things the same again. But from this film crew showing up and he says, like, oh, it's not that small. His delivery, I won't try to do it, but we're going to get a video store. But from his very first hanging out with these guys, you know, saying, like what his first inkling is like, well, why are you using natural light? Right? And he, you know, and the fella, the cameraman, I can't remember his character's name, tells him, tells him why. And so one point.

[A]

Because it's real. Because it's real. I think he says something like that, right?

[C]

So when she's shooting the moose. When he's shooting the moose and says, those eyes blink. And he says, not anymore. They cut away. And he said, this is very interesting. Can I tag along with you guys? And so it develops for him more and more to the point where halfway through the show, he's now running the camera, you know, especially, you know, that's what makes our show so good. Because when Barry is in there, is Marie selling Alaska and what we're going to have, and Darren starts to drift off, and now he's shooting stuffed birds as Barry's talking, and, you know, he's shooting totem poles and the spaghetti feed sign. You know, all you can eat for 250. You know, it's. It's really like. It's genius stuff because he's heard this from this pitch from Maurice for a decade now, you know, so that's completely boring to him.

[B]

Speaking of that moose, why do I have a memory, I don't know why if I was there or not, but of you taking a bunch of stuff and throwing it over the fence outside the studio where there was a graveyard, stuff that you were going to. To take home.

[C]

It was only one thing. That guy there.

[B]

That guy. Show us that guy. Wait, keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, that guy, that guy.

[B]

Wait, so that's.

[C]

That's the moose. That looks a boring house. But I. This is my house up here where I live. It's.

[A]

Oh, it's beautiful.

[B]

Beautiful.

[C]

Yeah. Thanks. And that's where the moose lives. That's.

[A]

That's where the moose lives.

[B]

Wait, that's the moose that Darren's filming in the show?

[C]

No, that's the moose from. There was a moose. There were two. There were two moose. Okay, I gotta. I gotta qualify this story because it makes me. It turns me into a thief, but I'm gonna tell you how it works. I stole that moose. I stole that moose from the set when we knew we were gonna be finished. I. I'll make this a short story, but I did it with permission. So do you remember our great production designer, Woody Crocker?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Hero. Let's just. That guy. I mean, the show would not be the show without what Woody did and his team. And every week they came in and reinvented the world. It was amazing.

[C]

So Woody was a great. Became a great pal. I'd pop into his office and we would have chats. And he wore these little round John Lennon glasses and he had a mustache and he had. And he was just, you know, he had a great laugh, right? And so as the show was ending, we had two sets. We had the Roslyn set where Chris's radio station was, and we had a set on the stage so that sometimes they could shoot me talking in close up and you wouldn't necessarily need to see outside. So as the show was ending, I said to Woody, I said, hey, Woody, I sure would like to take that radio station and the mic and the on air sound, you know, as just a memento. And he goes, I don't know who else deserves to have it but you. And I said, so if I take that thing, am I going to get in trouble? He goes, I haven't seen anything, right? And so that kind of gave me permission to take it, which I did, and I still have. But then a couple days later, I said, woody, there's that big moose head. There was a moose head in the bar. And then there was one. As soon as you entered Maurice's cabin over on that set we had, as soon as you entered his cabin, it was to the left. And I said, you know, there's that big moose head in Maurice's cabin that would sure look good in my house. This is my Seattle house. And he said, he goes, that's going to be a hard one to get out. You'd have to be sneaky. And I said, said, I'm kind of sneaky. He said, once again, he goes, I haven't seen a thing, right? So that gave me my permission to take this moose head, which was A pricey item to take because we found out later that they had rented it for all those years. So here's what I did. One day I knew we weren't going to shoot in Maurices anymore, and I went in and I grabbed it. Now, it's not as heavy as it looks. Looks. It's really just a cardboard shell. You know, there's not a skeleton in there. It's a cardboard shell that they drape. You know, the, the heaviest part are the horns. So we were next to a graveyard, our. Our. Our warehouse. So I went through this exit, and there was a chain link fence about 8ft high. And I thought if I tie a rope around this, this guy's horns, I can put him up, over and just lower him down and then. And drive around and load him up, right? And, man, do I carry this. I climb up, I carry this guy out, I get outside, I do all this, and next thing you know, this guy's in my car. And nobody's seen me take it, right?

[A]

It's not what you fling. It's the fling itself. You were flinging it over the fence.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I love that.

[C]

In two weeks, no, maybe a week later, we're all having lunch and they come in and make an announcement. Can we have your attention? Every. Everybody, somebody has taken the moose head. Now, this is Moosehead. Woody's in. Woody's in here. I can see him. He's in the lunchroom. We used to have a lunchroom. And somebody's taking this moose head. And, you know, we've rented it for all these, and if we don't give it back, it's going to cost us 15 or $20,000 as a. As a fine. Now, we understand this is a joke, and if you bring it back, you know, no harm, no foul. I don't know if you guys were in there when they made this speech, but I sort of like, look over at Woody, and he's not even looking at me. He knows who took the moose head, but he's not going to rat me out. And no one ever found out. I think the statute of limitations are up. So now I can let her.

[B]

I had this. If you guys remember this.

[A]

Oh, yes. You would look through that. You look through that in the pilot.

[C]

That is incredible. You have that?

[B]

Yeah, I took the only things. I took that. That I took Joel. You know, they had this real Columbia med school ring, which I. That has Joel Fleischman inscribed inside of it. Dr. Joel. I have that, and I have Joel's watch. Those are the only Things.

[A]

That's funny.

[B]

But this thing is such a. So iconic because it's in, like every. You know, it's. It's in every.

[A]

Yeah, that's so true. I have Maggie's watch and some of Maggie's coats, and I would show you my longhorn cattle that I've had, that I birthed and bred and loved. And when they passed, I stuff them. But that has nothing to do with Northern Exposure. And I can't get my computer downstairs to show you, but can I go back a little bit?

[C]

Let me just say, one of the best things I ever got. And, Rob, I know you have this because you mentioned when we did that Northern Exposure kind of reunion on that podcast that we did with everybody is Michael Fresco used to get a box of dailies, right, once a week of those VHS and some betas. So for five years. And then when he was done, he would put the box outside of his office and someone would take it and ship it away. So every week on the money, I would walk by and take this box of VHS's I have.

[B]

Who said you weren't a thief?

[C]

I have hundreds and hundreds of dailies of our show. What's so special about that? The special part is before action and after all the joking and laughing. I can't remember our last. These things. I don't know how many of these exist. You have some and I have some, but I can't think there's a lot of them out there.

[B]

Probably not. I have them for all the. All the years because I got my own copy.

[A]

Yeah. And. Yeah, I did, too. But I don't know. I don't know. They're probably my storage. I have a house. It's like a storage house. But those were some of the great greatest moments I remember. We would be working at 2am or something. You know, we worked such long hours, and we would get slap happy, and we would be at the, you know, Hollings Bar filming a scene, and we would. Would just laugh and laugh and we would have these amazing moments that I felt should have been kept in the show, you know, but they rarely. They were rarely in the show, you know.

[B]

Right.

[C]

There was a moment in the end of this one when Ed says, well, maybe you can look outside and start to cry or something. Right. When you're getting in the plane to go spread, you see me starting to laugh. You say, I was wondering if this is improvised. You go, shut up, Edge. And then Jeanine sort of starts to laugh in profile. And I know you well enough to see that you've got this face on. Was that an improvised line, do you think?

[B]

I don't know.

[C]

Shut up, Ed. And then I can see you about to break, but you're holding it in.

[B]

I know. It's great you caught that.

[A]

It's one of the geniuses of, I think, all of our characters, especially when Rob and I had to say these crazy lines, these really insulting, terrible lines. And, you know, but it was the situation that we brought to it that made it understandable or the depth of humanity or vulnerability of our characters, whatever it may be. But you're going, shut up, Ed. Which, if you looked at that, you would think, well, that's a really rude thing to say. But we knew you were just so nervous to get in the plane. You know, it was coming from a nerve. And you've delivered it so well, Rob, because you're coming from this, like, nervous place. You don't want to get in the plane. You're like, shut up.

[C]

And we all love. We all love the remains flying on the Big Lebowski, but that's years later. I think this might have been the first where human remains get flung into people's mouths.

[A]

I know.

[C]

And they didn't overdo it. You know, it would have been the way to go is just like, you know, load you guys up with it. But they were just coming in enough to do this.

[A]

That's the humor. That's the humor of the show. The show had intelligence. The show had drama. The show had comedy. And was this little bit of humor, like, I just want to go back. Karen hall wrote this episode and was. Really. Did a beautiful job, I think, with this episode. But if I. One of my favorite lines you brought up, John, was when she was. She's on the moose, and the gal that was there being the doc, you know, the producer of the documentary said, you know, do those eyes blink? I mean, hello, that's the funniest thing in the world. As if a dead moose's, you know, eyes were going to blink, but Ed says, not anymore.

[C]

And here's the great part, too. I'm going to do this thing, Ed. When Joel's eating this tough steak, right after he tells Sophie to go home and think about the future, he's eating this tough steak, and Ed comes in and sits down next to you. But Ed's probably doesn't earn enough money to eat in a restaurant. And he's a little skinny. He looks hungry because all he does is. Watches you. You cut this steak when he's telling you that Sophie wants you to come do a dirty deed. And he licks his lips at one point. He's watching you cut this thing like this, and it's really hilarious. And then Joel says about one of his patients, you go off the scene and you go, like, now I gotta go do a dirty deed for some old geezer. You know what I mean? Those little things really make me laugh. Just like when Marilyn's says, chief, you know, Tatanka's here with his accountant and his friend Fred, right? So this guy Fred comes in the office. He's just his friend Fred. And Nick Ramos. Nick Ramos has played a lot of Native Americans in movies for years. He died in 07. He's the chief. He died in 077.

[B]

He was such. And a great face.

[C]

But he's doing this thing where he's talking and then he looks down sort of Brandon like. And it's like, is he reading his lines? Because when you watch it, he spends an inordinate amount of time looking down and talking, and then. And then looking over here and talking. I'm thinking, wow, is he reading his lines? But the. One of the best parts is when they tell you about the $50,000 for the 100 acres, which, by any stretch, they're already scamming Joe Fleischman, because, you know, in 1990, 100 acres would have been 300 or 400 grand. And you're happy about this. We know they're going to immediately put up an Indian casino because before the ink's even dry, they're putting in paved roads, right? And these guys come into the bar, and Joel says, well, I don't usually conduct business in a bar. And he says, well, we thought you'd be in a hurry to get the money in your hands. And so at that exact moment, the film crew shows up, and Joel says, hey, I'm conducting business here, you know? And it's just like those.

[A]

That was the layers. Those were the layers.

[C]

Yeah. All of a sudden, the film crew's right there while Joel's taking money.

[A]

And that's the quirkiness. That's the quirkiness. The fact that it could be so intelligent, so philosophical and so quirky at the same time.

[B]

But.

[A]

But the juxtaposition of the Native Americans coming in and saying, it was our land, you know, it was our land. And you think, oh, yeah, it's their land. They're going to want to preserve it. And they're like, you know, no, they just want to drill, you know, immediately. Yeah.

[B]

The contradictions. That was Great because they weren't precious with any characters. You know. Now you'd be, there'd be so many PC corrections of things you couldn't say because you didn't want to offend this one or that one. But they, they were willing to be as long as it was truthful behavior or funny.

[A]

Well, and as Josh said last week, nothing was malicious because that's the greatest thing he said.

[B]

John, listen to this. Josh said you could kill someone on. You could murder someone, you could steal, you could take someone's wife, you could do anything on that show, any of the characters in that town. As long as there was no malice. Right. If there was malice behind it, it wouldn't work.

[A]

And so I don't remember that he said you could kill somebody.

[B]

No, he did. He's. You listen to it. He said you could kill someone. He said you could hit manslaughter. He said not. But, but if you're intended, you know, like if it's like, you know, not intentional, like if you, if you kill someone by, you know, without malice, then it's, it's, it would work. Which I found fascinating.

[A]

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[B]

That's right. You would be coming in at 11.

[C]

O' clock and one and one takes. Here was. Here's where my life changed and it changed the way I work to. Even to this day I shouldn't admit this And I should keep the mystery. But about the second season, so it worked out like this. So they would generally shoot maybe four monologues that they could pepper throughout the show, but two generally got cut. So I do all this work and I mean, I'd work for days and days on these monologues because sometimes they were a page long or even longer. And. And I always knew, like two of these were going to get cut because if the show was short, they could pop me in somewhere with a random thing. And they never used one from episode seven and episode 13. I always thought that was odd. But one time it might have been Jim Charleston, our first A.D. he said, I was shooting one of these monologues and he came up and said, listen, it would really help us out. I think we had the next week's show. And he said, if we could do it a costume change on you and you could do another monologue from that show. I said, man, I haven't even looked at that. He said, you know, is there any way. And I said, there's absolutely no way. And he said, you know, he said, take a look at this and just see. Just see, man. He gave it to me. It was like a page long. So I sat down and I memorized this thing in about 13 minutes, right? I couldn't believe I did it. Action. And I did it right, because I used to do these monologues. And then, as we know from actors, I couldn't sleep all night because I'd be learning it the next day. And then I couldn't sleep because my mind wouldn't shut off. And I went, holy hell. And guess what happened? I never, ever, ever memorized another monologue. Except when I got into work in the morning. It changed my life because here's what I started doing, and I still do it to this day. Because we never really had big table reads for each show, right? They would just give us a script and go, here's your next thing. So here's what I started doing. I would show up for work in the morning. I never read another script. Sorry, writers, these are great shows. But I never read another script. And I would show up in the morning and I would treat every scene as if it was a little one act play. I wouldn't know what the show was about. I would just know that the scene, oh, I'm talking to Joel right now, right? Or I'm talking to Maggie about something that doesn't work in her life or whatever it was. And not one time in five seasons would. And I Never told anybody. Would a director or another actor or a writer say, you don't really know what this show's about, do you? Right. Like, no. No one ever caught that. I didn't know because now I learned that I can learn these monologues in an. In less than an hour. You know, from. From rehearsal to shooting was always more than an hour for people to get ready.

[B]

It's amazing. But wait, but, but. But you had all these literary. Like, what about the references in those, Mom? Like, didn't. You didn't know what you were talking about.

[C]

Most of the time, I didn't know what I was talking about. When you ask any. Anybody. I wouldn't say anything. I just try to make it sound real, as if I just learned how to build a watch, and I don't know anything about watches. And you take the second hand.

[B]

See, I think that. That I knew you did that a little bit. And. And I think that that's what made him so pure, because you have this innate intelligence. Chris has a kind of bookish intelligence. And the combination of them created this thing that was just, I think, that technique you stumbled onto. But I could never do it. I could not work like that. To this day, I'm the complete opposite. I'm like a week before. And, you know, I know it inside out because it's the only way I can relax. But I wish I could be like you, you know?

[A]

Well, you know, I'll tell you how I work, too. Cause I think this is kind of interesting, the three of us, how we worked. But, John, it worked for your character, I think, because. Because your character was always kind of in his own world, you know, your character was always sort of ethereal, you know, except when we can't wait when we get to it. Dad was a traveling man. I can't wait to get to that show that was. You just. You may have to come back for that show because that was one of the really big shows, you know, and y' all were having the same dreams and everything, but. But, you know, your character was sort of ethereal, and your character was sort of living in his own world. Your character was just. So. It kind of works. But, you know, Rob, you were very intellectual, emotional as well, but you were very, you know, you thought it through.

[B]

Through.

[A]

Now we know, John, how you worked. And I was kind of in the middle. I was very emotional in all my choices. And I studied sensory acting with a more sensory acting, but it was method. But it was. You know, people get freaked out when you say that. So I learned to say sensory. So I would look through a script and I would look at the scene and I would. My first thing were not the words. The first thing that I would do is think, what are my emotions in this script? And what choice am I making? Maybe they would change. On the. On one page, my. My choices for who that might change three times. But who. Who is the person that I'm going to be visualizing and seeing? What room am I in? So when I looked at a script, it was all sensory. What room am I in? Who am I speaking to? Because, you know, it may be that I. I get there that day and I'm. I'm like, so incredibly depressed. But I have to be happy, or I'm happy and I have to be incredibly depressed. Or maybe the actor's not giving me what I need, so I have to imbue someone else on the actor. So everything I did with the script, the. The dialogue, which was frustrating sometimes to people, but the dialogue came second, the way I was trained. But the sensory was first. I had to look at the change and think, what are my emotions? What. What's happening to Maggie? And I too, read every script, though, because, gosh, they were like short stories, you know, and what's the arc? And where are we going? And. And I. I had another coach that talked about our duty as the actor with a character to the plot. Right. We as actors might want to be kind of likable in the scene, but maybe in the plot of the script, we're supposed to be the antag. And we might have to portray it in a way just for the beauty of the work. So it's really interesting, I think, to hear how the three of us would work.

[B]

Fascinating.

[C]

Well, the thing that made the show great for me was now it's probably about the end of the second season when I started doing that. When the show would come on on Monday nights and if I was home and wasn't working, I would have. Around 9:30, I'd crack a couple beers and I would watch a show with the freshest eyes in the world because. Because I had no idea what I was gonna see. And I just remember. And I would always call my mom right after the show was over at 11 to say, did you see the show? But I remember always being so excited because I didn't know what this episode was gonna be about because I hadn't read it. And it didn't matter what Rob and Jeanine were doing. Cause I wasn't in those scenes. But when I Showed up at work in the morning. I'd say, what are we doing today? And whatever it was, you guys would never know that I didn't know what was happening. And I love that little history of it.

[B]

Listen, I think, I think Janine. Don't we have to kind of wind it up probably, right. Even though we could go on for fucking.

[A]

John, you'll have to come back. You'll have to come back for the Traveling man episodes when your brother comes into town.

[C]

Because I would love it.

[A]

Yeah, that was one of your greatest storylines.

[B]

What a joy it's been. Not just to talk to you, Johnny, but to talk to, but have the three of us talking. And I mean, just, just that I'm fascinated by the different approaches. That's the thing about art and acting is none of them, none of our approaches is the approach. It worked for each of us, but it created something. And I, I would argue, you could probably argue that the, the tensions that were created by the different approaches is what made it magical, you know, like, because when I'm in a scene with you, you know, I'm like all like, you know, know, have intellectually thought things out and you're just kind of present. And then when I'm in a scene with Janine, she's got all this emotional stuff going on, and I'm just, you know, trying to say, you know, we're, you know, just think it through. You know, it's like, it anyway. What a, what a, what a joy. I'm so glad that John. I'm so glad the, the career and the life that you've carved out for yourself. It was, it was really a special time, time being on that show and, and it, what a gift to be able to come back. I remember, look at it.

[A]

I'm sorry, Rob. I don't want to cut.

[B]

No, that's it. I just, I'm just signing off, basically.

[A]

Well, I, I, this is kind of a cool sign off because the endings were always so good in the show. The endings were always awesome. And so many of the times, Rob, it would be you and I walking down the street or whatever, and the camera it was back then was they had to do cranes. No drones, you know, the crane shot at the end or whatever it might be. But I remember walking John, we were schluffing around on the, we were in the Redmond's stage, which is really a business office that they converted, and it was really late and we were working all these long hours, and they didn't want to sometimes give us our 24 hour turnaround, and we were just like, you know, ripper until two. And we were talking about how arduous the hours were, especially back then, just because now they don't even really light anymore. You know, back then we lit, which I prefer, quite frankly. And I remember looking at you saying, yeah, yeah, but this is a special time in our life, you know, and after this, it's going to be different. But this is our special time.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. It was the most special time for me because it just. It changed my life. And then it led to other things and, you know, all I ever wanted out of this was to make a lot of money and be famous. And those two things happened in my life and it's like, man, I got everything out of this career that I dreamed I could get. And. And it's really thanks to Northern Exposure. It made it launch all that.

[A]

I wanted to be a serious actress. I wanted to be a serious actress. And so the show gave me that. It gave me this serious character. What it did in closing, Rob, what did it do for you? What? Like, I wanted to be serious actress. I wanted to be put in my meat. My, you know, my acting talents into a meaty role. What was your.

[B]

Well, I learned so much. I mean, I learned so much about. About the work. I mean, it gave me the opportunity to. To. I mean, I became a director watch by watching those dailies, which I did almost. You know, every. Every day I would watch some of those dailies. And it taught me about film grammar and it taught me how to direct, but it. It taught me how to be, you know, to be on a. On a production and. And be a part of a team and learn. And I know I made so many mistakes. I had bad behavior a lot, and. But. But I learned from it, you know, And. And it made me the. You know, I think I would say it made me the man I am. It certainly was a big part of making me the man I am today. And I'm proud of who I am, you know?

[C]

Yes. And I just want to cap that. I can. Wanna cap that with one thing which I didn't say you two. Even though I was watching Cagney and Lacy, I wasn't hanging out with Cagney and Lacy when I was doing it. So when I got there and I watched you two, because you two were the. The undeniable stars of it. I learned so much about being on a set, how to treat a crew, how to be professional from watching YouTube, just. Especially in the very early.

[B]

When.

[C]

When I would just be there just watching. Those are days when you. Even if you didn't have to work, you'd come to work. Because we all lived. We all lived in this little compound. Compound. And it was a couple miles to come to work, and I would just watch you two and see the in betweens and how you were talking to script supervisors and. And, you know, I was very intimidated to talk to, you know, to me, Josh Brand was the smartest guy I'd ever met in my life up to that point. And I didn't have a whole lot to say to him. And just to watch how you guys talk to people, it's like I learned a lot from that.

[A]

We all learned a lot. That's a good place to leave an acting troupe. We were an acting troupe. You know, it was like, we were like a traveling. In the olden days when the actors in theater would travel together, you know, to the day, and they just got. And we. We were oiled machine after a while because. And we all had to live in the same city. I will close with this. The fact that we weren't in la. We'll talk more and more about the pros and cons of not being in la. But one of the greatness, the great things about the fact that we did not film in LA was just the camaraderie that we had, that we were all sort of fish out of water in a new place.

[B]

So, Jeannine, we should say next week.

[A]

We have Barry Corbin.

[B]

Yeah, that'll be fun.

[A]

Next week. John, you might have to come just to, like, be with us.

[D]

Right?

[A]

We'll have like four.

[C]

You're going to love it. I talked to Barry, like I said, a lot. That guy has not lost a step. I mean, he's as vibrant as he was. Here's the crazy part. I'm going to turn 64 in a couple days. When we were doing Northern Exposure, I was hanging out with Barry the first couple episodes and. And he said, well, I got a big birthday coming up next week. And I go, oh, Yeah, I was 27. I go, yeah. He goes, yep, gonna be 50.

[B]

Oh.

[C]

I thought of him as such an old guy back there, 60s.

[A]

I know. The other day, my brother said, well, I said, well, you know, I'm midlife. My brother said, oh, we're way past midlife.

[B]

Well, thanks again, John. We're gonna close.

[A]

It's been fun, so. Yeah. Thank you. Love you, John. Love you, John.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Love you. Fun as always, Rob. And thank you, everyone, for listening to the reminiscence about Northern Explo the reminiscences Northern Exposure on Northern Disclosure and thank you and sign on and off for Connell and Fleischman.

[B]

Well, maybe it should probably be Fleischman o'. Connell. I think.

[C]

I think so.

[A]

In your dreams. In your dreams, Fleischman. Brother and Disclosure is a production with Evergreen Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson and Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

[D]

Hi, I'm Wil Wheaton and I am so excited to tell you about my new podcast series, It's Story Time with Wil Wheaton. You may recognize my name from my acting work in television shows like the Big Bang Theory, Leverage and Star the Next Generation, or from a movie called Stand By Me. You may recognize my voice from one of the hundreds of audiobooks I've narrated, including number one New York Times bestseller Ready Player One, John Scalzi's award winning Collapsing Empire Trilogy, or even my own best selling memoir, Still Just a Geek When I'm not reading stories, I am listening to stories. And I was a massive fan of my friend and mentor LeVar Burton's podcast, LeVar Burton Reads. When he finished his final season, I realized how much I missed it, so I asked him if I could take a shot at picking up where he left off and to my delight he gave me his blessing and I got started. It's been a long time, a lot of work, and absolutely worth it to bring you incredible stories that I love, pulled from the pages of Uncanny magazine, Light speed, on spec, and on others. You're going to meet authors you don't yet know you love, including some who are being narrated for the very first time. I will take you with me as we travel together through time. I will take you to meet some gods. We will watch people fall in and out of love and more. It's Storytime with Wil Wheaton is available wherever you get your podcasts. I hope you'll join me.

[A]

Sam.