RERUN - S1E8: “The Aurora Borealis” with Adam Arkin and Richard Cummings

Summary

Podcast Summary: Northern Disclosure — RERUN, S1E8: "The Aurora Borealis"

Host: Evergreen Podcasts
Date: January 20, 2026
Co-hosts: Rob Morrow and Janine Turner
Special Guests: Adam Arkin and Richard Cummings Jr.

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Overview

This rerun episode of Northern Disclosure dives deep into "Aurora Borealis," one of the quirkiest and most beloved episodes from the first season of Northern Exposure. Rob Morrow and Janine Turner, joined by their co-stars Adam Arkin (Adam) and Richard Cummings Jr. (Bernard), bring warmth, humor, and insight as they reminisce about the making of this standout episode. Their lively banter covers everything from the spiritual undertones and bold storytelling choices to on-set antics and the challenges/joys of working in the wild Pacific Northwest. The discussion is filled with heart, nostalgia, and new revelations about the show’s enduring legacy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Why "Aurora Borealis" Matters

• Hosts' Favorites: Both Rob and Janine single out "Aurora Borealis" as top-tier Northern Exposure (“ten extraordinary episodes out of 110...this is one of them”—Rob [02:41]).
• Episode Themes: The group unpacks the episode's spiritual, metaphysical, and philosophical threads, exploring Jungian dreams, duality, and community.

Casting and Character Origins

• Adam Arkin on ‘Adam’:
  • The character was named for Adam after producers saw his wild side on a previous show. “You're actually out of your fricking mind, aren't you?... We have to write something to that at some point.” —Adam Arkin [09:34]
  • Adam’s “walking id” is a source of unpredictability: “You never really knew who the hell he was.” —Adam Arkin [10:59]
• Richard Cummings Jr. on ‘Bernard’:
  • Bernard and Chris (John Corbett) being black and white brothers was novel and pushed network boundaries. The episode was filmed as the second installment but aired as the eighth for this reason [15:04].
  • “They thought it was too weird.” —Richard [15:09]
  • “It was just accepted... was a big deal back then.” —Rob [15:19]

Behind-the-Scenes Memories

• On-Set Laughter (Hilarity & Trouble):
  • “It was the most unprofessional day of my life in terms of my behavior... We nearly all got drummed out of the business.”—Adam Arkin [11:18]
  • The passing stern looks from directors and crew only made the laughter worse [12:27].
• Adam’s Approach as a Director:
  • “I make it clear that they're fine to laugh, and I'll laugh along with them. Not because I'm not under pressure, but because having gone through the feeling of, you know, you're bad, it only makes it worse.” —Adam Arkin [12:53]
• Location as a Character:
  • Shooting in the Pacific Northwest was integral. “It was the first time I realized that location as a character.” —Richard Cummings Jr. [26:30]
  • “I felt like we were like a hop, skip, and a jump away from the Yukon... like Jack London territory.” —Adam Arkin [27:47]
  • On-screen, it made the show “movie-esque” [26:53].

Unique Episode Elements

• Dream Sequences:
  • Carl Jung appears, driving a Mack truck. “That's the problem with dreams, you can't control them.” —Janine Turner [16:22]
  • “Those dream sequences were so funny. And you had an innocence, Richard, in what you did.” —Janine Turner [16:48]
• Music & Artistry:
  • The use of “Bad Moon Rising,” “Moon River,” and sweeping visuals contributed to the immersive, surreal feeling [13:22].
  • Chris Stevens’ (John Corbett) Aurora Borealis sculpture: “He was building sort of a universe.” —Richard Cummings Jr. [22:20]

Representation, Acceptance, and Community

• A Benevolent Universe:
  • Northern Exposure was about community, acceptance, and gentle inclusion, “completely free of cynicism” (Adam [24:24]).
  • “Anyone could get along... as long as there wasn’t malice behind it.”—Rob, referencing show creator Josh Brand [25:04]
• Impact on New Viewers:
  • The show’s warmth and positivity are cited as reasons it continues to attract new fans amid current cynical TV landscapes.

Actor-Directors on Filmmaking

• Transitioning to Directing:
  • Adam Arkin and Richard Cummings Jr. reflect on how their acting backgrounds inform their directing styles—emphasizing communication, empathy, and collaboration [44:29].
  • “If you have the requisite...bent toward being a director, having acted is really helpful.” —Rob [44:29]
• Film vs. Digital Debate:
  • Film is described as warmer and more “precious,” digital as convenient but sometimes impersonal.
  • “There’s a big difference between vinyl and digital, and I think there’s a big difference between digital takes and film. It breathes. To me, digital doesn't breathe.” —Richard [58:48]
  • Current trends in digital cinematography are sometimes critiqued as “uniform, homogenized aesthetic” (Janine [56:10]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Character Duality:
  “You were a Vietnam vet... yet you were this extraordinary chef. So talk to us a little bit about the character and how you created these two extremes.” —Janine Turner to Adam Arkin [09:04]
• On Being Accepted On-Set:
  “This character... came into this space and truly was just accepted. My connection in life unfolded in front of me, guys, and in front of everybody.” —Richard Cummings Jr. [36:32]
• On Community:
  “It was about community and acceptance and a kind of gentle inclusion, and completely free of cynicism which, most... projects with that level of intelligence, nowadays it's very hard to find anything that doesn't have at least a thread of cynicism.” —Adam Arkin [24:24]
• On Laughter and Outtakes:
  “Adam, when you came on the show, you made me laugh like nobody. And I got in so much trouble. And I have boxes of outtakes...” —Rob Morrow [08:04]
• On Directing:
  “If you come on as a guest director on a show that's been established, you’re not there to change the tone...that being said, I also want to feel that I have a certain amount of expressive flexibility.” —Adam Arkin [48:44]
• On Film vs. Digital:
  “It's pretty hard to match the results of film... Knowing that you’re working with limited resources can just sharpen everybody in a way.” —Adam Arkin [59:08]

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Key Timestamps

• [03:07] — Why "Aurora Borealis" is a favorite episode
• [05:22] — Introduction of Adam Arkin and Richard Cummings Jr.
• [09:34] — Adam Arkin explains the origins of his character
• [13:59] — Richard on not realizing the character arc until filming began
• [15:04] — The episode’s delayed airing due to perceived controversy
• [16:22] — Discussion of the iconic dream sequence and Jung references
• [22:20] — The Aurora Borealis sculpture as a metaphor for the show’s "universe"
• [24:24] — On the show’s lack of cynicism
• [26:30] — Location as a vital character in the series
• [38:10] — Adam Arkin’s first time directing on the show
• [44:29] — Actor-director perspectives on working with cast and crew
• [58:48] — Film versus digital, and the feel of classic cinematography

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Fun & Heartfelt Extras

• Wig Anecdote: Adam Arkin describes campaigning for (and improvising) his character’s wig, a choice initially resisted by producers but ultimately integral to Adam’s look [17:36].
• Christmas Album Idea: Janine pitches a Northern Exposure cast holiday album: “I want to do a Northern Exposure Christmas album where all of us sing...” [63:28]
• Enduring Bonds: “We've all done tons and tons of shows... Are you still in touch with those people? ...We're still very much connected. It's like seeing old friends.” —Richard [23:55]

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Conclusion

This episode of Northern Disclosure is a celebration of the unconventional magic that made "Aurora Borealis" — and Northern Exposure in general — so timeless. Through laughter, behind-the-scenes tales, and thoughtful discussion, the cast conveys not only nostalgia but also the series' ongoing relevance, both as humane storytelling and a beacon of artistic risk-taking and inclusive warmth.

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(For more details on specific scenes, character arcs, or technical talk, see timestamps above for direct reference.)

Transcript

[Janine Turner]

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[Bobby Finger]

I'm Bobby Finger.

[Janine Turner]

And I'm Lindsey Weber. Our podcast who Weekly is everything you need to know about the celebrities. You don't think of us as your cheat code to People magazine. Your glossary for Hollywood, a shortcut to understanding pop culture at large.

[Bobby Finger]

For the past eight years, who Weekly has been telling listeners everything they need to know about the celebrities. They don't.

[Janine Turner]

Who Weekly airs twice weekly with brand new episodes on Tuesdays and Fridays. Listen and follow who Weekly and Odyssey podcasts available now for free on the Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. Hello listeners, it's Janeane Turner. We took a break, but we will be back with new episodes of Northern Disclosure soon. In the meantime, we're bringing back one of our favorite episodes from the archive. Enjoy and we'll see you soon. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Northern Disclosure, where my fellow actor Rob Morrow and I, Jeanine Turner, walk through every episode of Northern Exposure for this watch podcast. And we're thrilled that you're with us today for episode eight, Aurora Borealis. And of course, I don't know if you're listening right now or you're watching us, but if you're watching, you can also listen. And if you're listening, you can watch.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Rob.

[Janine Turner]

Rob wanted to make sure I said that.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, absolutely you can. If you, if you want to see Jeanine's beautiful face, you can go to the YouTube channel. And it's, it's the name of it is Northern Disclosure. And so you could watch her listen.

[Janine Turner]

There you go. And Rob's beautiful face, too.

[Bobby Finger]

Thank you.

[Janine Turner]

Yes, there you go.

[Bobby Finger]

You know, I'm so happy A, because of our guests that we're going to introduce in a second. But B, this particular episode, which I watched again yesterday, is, I would say it's certainly one of my top I Always say. There was 10 episodes of Northern Exposure that I thought were really extraordinary out of the 110, and this is one of them. And it's certainly, if not my favorite of the first season. One of two, how about you?

[Janine Turner]

Oh, well, one of two or three. Absolutely. Because it was so eccentric and brilliant, and the music and the scenery and the quirkiness of everything, just the way opera music was played behind certain things. It was just. Everything came together in this beautiful sort of genius. And it was so quirky and fun.

[Bobby Finger]

And spiritual and metaphysical, and it touched on so many philosophical points and psychological points. There were so many layers.

[Janine Turner]

Young. Young was quoted all the time.

[Bobby Finger]

And he was in it. I mean, he's talking about.

[Janine Turner]

That's so much fun. That's so true.

[Bobby Finger]

And we should say, by the way, that the reason this. Normally we tape this from our respective homes.

[Adam Arkin]

Yes.

[Janine Turner]

And Rob and I are in the.

[Bobby Finger]

Studio together because we happen to be in New York. So we thought, why not get together? Which we'll do on occasion.

[Janine Turner]

We're gonna do it in LA soon.

[Bobby Finger]

And we might even do some live, you know, podcasts from here and there.

[Janine Turner]

That'd be fun.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

And get.

[Janine Turner]

I'll get Rob to Texas on the ranch and I'll have. You want to feed a longhorn.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, I've always wanted to feed a longhorn.

[Janine Turner]

This is number one on your list, right? And feed a longhorn cow. But anyway, no, it was. It was it. Well, one of my favorite lines is from this show. One of them is, they're great eccentric lines. One is, in your dreams, Fleischman.

[Bobby Finger]

That's one that's not from this show, though.

[Janine Turner]

No, not from this show. But from this show, it's Daddy was a Traveling Man. I mean, this is one of the things I always remember, but I may be getting ahead of ourselves a little. Shall we bring in our special guest?

[Bobby Finger]

I think I'd love to.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

We have two special guests today. Drumroll, please. We have. We have the oh, so fabulous Adam Arkin, ladies and gentlemen. Who played Adam. That's coincidental. Who went on. He was on our show. He went on to star in Chicago Hope. He's an in demand director now. He won a DGA award for Louisiana Sky. He has been directing Natasha Lyonne and executive producing in Poker Face. And his first directorial debut was for an episode of Northern Exposure. And also he directed four episodes of the Offer, which is a behind the scenes about the Godfather. So we're really thrilled to have Adam. Adam, we're going to introduce our second guest A minute. But say hello, Adam.

[Adam Arkin]

Hello, everyone. Hi, guys.

[Bobby Finger]

Adam is one of my favorite people in the world, let alone he's such a talented director and been watching his work over the years and it's just stunning. It just gets better and better and better. And Richard Cummings, who I got to work with recently on a tribute. On a charity event, a tribute to Donny Hathaway, which was such. He did such a beautiful job. So Richard is not only a great guy, but a terrific director, producer, writer, and actor. He wears many hats, and he does them all with grace and dignity and skill. And, you know, I was fascinated by, you know, northern. Northern Exposure distinguishes itself often with these kind of unique takes on. On relationships. And the character of Bernard, which he played, him being black, and, and he played Chris Stevens brother, who's white, obviously, and, and they just kind of. It's just an accepted thing.

[Janine Turner]

And his dad was a traveling man.

[Bobby Finger]

His dad, that was the line comes from. But he's a great guy and a great director and, and done so many things.

[Janine Turner]

And we're thrilled to have both of you.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. So.

[Janine Turner]

Hey.

[Bobby Finger]

Hey, Richard.

[Janine Turner]

Welcome.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Good to see old friends. Good to see old friends.

[Janine Turner]

Don't we have great memories of being in Rosslyn, Washington together and traveling to the Cascade Mountains and whatnot. I just, I just have. It's amazing that it could be 30, 35 years ago and I can still feel such a bond with, of course, Rob and the two of you. This is really special. Thanks for coming on the show today.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

By the way, Rob, you mentioned I wear many hats. I just want to say this is my favorite hat. It's a Clipper hat.

[Bobby Finger]

I'm sorry about that hat. I'm sorry about where the Clippers are in the. But I'm. But I can say, being in New York, I'm a fair weather fan of basketball. If I'm in L. A and the Lakers are doing well, I'm a Lakers fan. If I'm in New York and the Knicks are doing well as they are, I'm a Knicks fan.

[Janine Turner]

Well, and I'm from Texas, so I don't even know who the Clippers are.

[Bobby Finger]

But.

[Janine Turner]

Who are the Clippers? Somebody tell me.

[Bobby Finger]

So I have so many great.

[Janine Turner]

Wait, nobody's telling me who the Clippers are.

[Bobby Finger]

They're a basketball team. Los Angeles. There's two.

[Janine Turner]

There's likers and the Clippers.

[Bobby Finger]

Exactly.

[Janine Turner]

Okay. We have Houston and Dallas rivalries. I get it. Okay. I get it now. Thank you.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Yes.

[Bobby Finger]

You're welcome. Okay, so. So I, you know, when I Think about Adam first. I remember so clearly when Adam, when you came on the show, you made me laugh like nobody. And I got in so much trouble. And I have boxes of outtakes usually over my shoulder with my things going like this. And they would come and yell at me and they'd say, rob, we got to get this.

[Janine Turner]

And they get pissed off, the pass is closing.

[Bobby Finger]

And you had this ability to kind of laugh with me, but then shut it off and be in control. And I just remember. And it was something, you know. Adam's dad is the great Alan Arkin, who recently passed away. And he was very influential to me as a young actor, even before I knew I wanted to be an actor. And Adam, as you will hear, has his very similar cadences to his dad and also a similar sense of humor. And so when he showed up and started, I mean, his, the way he, the way he presented Adam, the character was so funny and charming and scary and it would just. And when I was watching the episode the other day, there's constantly shots where you see the camera over my right shoulder and you can just see my cheek and I'm smiling and I know. And poor Adam had to deal with me laughing while he's supposed to be serious. And I think you even ad libbed.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Something at one point.

[Bobby Finger]

I'm serious here.

[Janine Turner]

Well, and Adam, I want to ask you about it, but see what happens. What I think was so great about Adam, your character, was this juxtaposition that all of our characters had. There was this yin and this yang. And here you were a Vietnam vet, this man who lived alone. Well, we think. And yet you were this extraordinary chef. So talk to us a little bit about the character and how you created the character and how you found these nuances of combining these two extremes.

[Adam Arkin]

Well, you had mentioned earlier that it was a coincidence that the character's name was Adam. I don't think it was a coincidence. I had worked with Josh and John on another show, a short lived but well received show called A Year in the Life. And I was playing a very conservative, kind of reined in, stay at home dad. And, and they got to know me a little bit. And at one point Josh looked over at me and said, you're actually out of your fricking mind, aren't you? And I was sort of like, yeah, I am. He said, well, we have to write something to that at some point. Well, the show was canceled. And then I guess it was within a calendar year. Northern came on as a summer replacement series and I got a Call saying, you know, there's something coming your way. We thought of you when we wrote it and take a look at it. And I just flipped out when I saw the character. I just felt there was a golden opportunity there because he was just a walking id. And as you were saying what he was known for his Vietnam bona fides and being a gourmet chef. The only thing we knew about him for sure was that he could cook and that he was irascible because he was also a pathological liar, clearly. So I just love that you never really knew who the hell he was.

[Bobby Finger]

It's so funny, that moment when I catch you in one of your lies and the look on your face is like. It's so priceless. You don't know what to say.

[Janine Turner]

Because it was about something. About 15 days, wasn't it?

[Bobby Finger]

Or something about being in Vietnam at the same time. He was 50. You know something? The years didn't quite.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, yeah, right.

[Adam Arkin]

You mentioned the laughing. I remember Richard. Richard, you, Rob and I, along with Valerie. It was the most unprofessional day of my life in terms of my behavior. We had to do a negotiation around a table, and it was. We nearly all got drummed out of the business. I remember talking to the director afterwards. I'm blanking on his name, who directed it, but he got so angry. And I came up to him like an hour later after we had finished it, and I said, look, I. I know it was difficult, but we. We. We got the scene right. I mean, the scene is there. And he wheeled around, he said, I don't know, Adam.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

I mean, you thought it was goddamn funny for the past three hours.

[Bobby Finger]

I remember Matt Odellica, that's. I have those out, by the way. I do have them. That's the table scene. And I so remember it. And we. And they. They were so pissed at me because I was the. I was the only, like, regular, regular. You guys were guests, and they were like, you've got to set the tone. You got to. You know, you can't.

[Janine Turner]

They always hated it when we laughed. I remember having so many at the bar, and they would come up and give us the stern look.

[Bobby Finger]

Right. They burned.

[Janine Turner]

And yet those moments were really golden. And they could have used some of them, too.

[Bobby Finger]

Well, they did. They had no choice.

[Adam Arkin]

But the stern looks make everything worse, too.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam Arkin]

Like a school child.

[Janine Turner]

Well, also, we worked such long hours that you're just slap happy after a while.

[Bobby Finger]

Well, before I asked Richard something, I just want to ask you to Adam, so What do you do when your actors, when you're directing and you. And they have a. They get. They. They go on a laughing jag. How do you deal with it?

[Adam Arkin]

I really try to. For as long as I can. I mean, until. Until it starts becoming really problematic. I make it clear that they're fine to laugh, and I'll laugh along with them. Not because I'm not under pressure, but because having gone through the feeling of, you know, you're bad, it only makes it worse, you know, So I try to avoid that.

[Janine Turner]

Those are great moments, though, Richard.

[Bobby Finger]

I mean, your. Your character, first of all, the way you played him was brilliant. But, you know, the. When you. When you arrive on a motorcycle, kind of oblivious to where you are, with Bad Moon Rising, all the music in this episode, the music was amazing. And the Bad Moon Rising and Moon.

[Janine Turner]

River with lots of people, different. Different singers.

[Bobby Finger]

But, Richard, you. You're. What did you think? Because I know. Because Adam was clearly excited with the potential of Adam on the page. What did you. Did you know what. What was going on with Bernard when you read it? Like, was it clear? Because it's such a great arc of the relationship?

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

No, I wasn't that clear on things until we got there. And Peter o', Fallon, who directed the episode, great director.

[Bobby Finger]

Great director.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Really, really enjoyed working with him. I mean, he was so. I don't want to say explanatory, but he helped us understand that. That connection between John and I touching the back of our heads, because none of that stuff is written. Touching the back of our heads at the same time, nodding at the same time, finishing each other's sentences.

[Bobby Finger]

That wasn't in the script. Finishing the.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

That part was. But to get the rhythm to do.

[Bobby Finger]

That right, it's pretty.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Pretty challenging. And so I didn't know what to make of things. And also at that time, too, you're talking about a black guy and a white guy being brothers and Daddy being a traveling man. There's a small story about the. Because it was the second episode ever shot, and if you guys recall it, it aired as the eighth episode.

[Bobby Finger]

I didn't remember.

[Janine Turner]

I didn't remember that.

[Bobby Finger]

Wow.

[Janine Turner]

Really?

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Yeah. From.

[Janine Turner]

We shot.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

That's right.

[Bobby Finger]

They thought it was too controversial.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

They thought it was too weird.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, that's.

[Janine Turner]

I don't remember that at all now.

[Bobby Finger]

I do.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Yeah.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah.

[Bobby Finger]

Well, that's a good point for the audience. That's a good point for the audience to hear that.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

That.

[Bobby Finger]

So in 1990.

[Adam Arkin]

And.

[Bobby Finger]

And it was. You say it was weird, but I think it was probably the. The aspect of the black and white brothers. Right? I mean. Right. That was the thing.

[Janine Turner]

I mean, also, how about running to the. To the car in the dream sequels? Daddy, you forgot your balls.

[Bobby Finger]

I mean, that's right.

[Janine Turner]

Even that was risky back then.

[Bobby Finger]

You're right. And so I could see. So they got scared, but they didn't bury it. They fortunately aired it, but.

[Janine Turner]

And that's only because we were a summer series. I don't think we ever would have gotten away with that.

[Bobby Finger]

You're probably right. And it was aired as the last episode of the season, which probably they thought. They figured if we. They either had an audience.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, that's right. What do we have to lose?

[Bobby Finger]

So.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

So you know what happened when the. Before the episode even aired, Josh called me and said the magic words that every actor wants to hear. Would you like to do more of these? You're out your mind. Absolutely.

[Bobby Finger]

So they weren't. They didn't realize. They hadn't planned on it. That's interesting.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Right?

[Janine Turner]

Well, y' all were. You were. You were so good together.

[Adam Arkin]

So good.

[Janine Turner]

And that dream sequence in the truck. In the Mac truck, you know, when you have the wig on and you say, that's the problem with dreams. You can't control them. I mean, it was just superb writing. It really was. It was written.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Carl Jung driving a Mac drunk.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, Carl Jung. Carl Jung.

[Bobby Finger]

And just screaming. I know, I know. The collective unconscious.

[Adam Arkin]

But I don't know. Drive.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Janine Turner]

Those dream sequences were so funny. And you had an innocence, Richard, in what you did. You just had a real innocence. Both of you did. And, you know, and watching John. John Corbett, he had this Elvis thing about him.

[Bobby Finger]

He loved Elvis.

[Janine Turner]

He had this little Elvis thing about him that he would do.

[Bobby Finger]

He would do El and John Travolta, he could do a great video.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, no, it's John Travolta. That's it. No, it's John Travolta.

[Bobby Finger]

John Corbett owns Elvis's license, his driver's license. He bought it in an auction.

[Janine Turner]

Well, there is an Elvis thing, but actually it was John Travolta that I saw in this one. But the two of you together, when you awaken from that dream sequence and when you speak together at the same time, dad, you know, Dad's a traveling man. Was really, really wonderful. Great memories.

[Bobby Finger]

Adam, where did that wig come from? Was that your choice or was that part of the.

[Adam Arkin]

The wig was something that I campaigned for early on, and there was resistance to it right up until the last second and right before we started shooting, I was in the makeup trailer, and I said, please, like, just reconsider this. And everybody was like, but we can't. We'd have to get you fitted for a wig. It would take time. I said, you don't have to fit me for a wig. We got. We have the watch cap I'm already wearing. And I took, like, a made to order crappy wig that was sitting in the trailer, put it on, pulled the watch cap over it and said, this is all it's gotta be. I never have to take the hat off. Please let me do this. And they were finally like, okay, they let me do it. And then when the wedding episode came along, I tried to pitch that there was this great movie with De Niro and Ed Harris where he gets cleaned up in the middle of the movie. He'd been kind of a bum, but then suddenly appears and he's absolutely quaffed and gorgeous. And I said, you know, in the first half of the episode, I look like normal Adam. But I think it would be great if when I came out for the wedding, I was completely clean shaven, short hair, like, looking, like, totally coiffed, but still the same irascible lunatic. And they wouldn't go for it. They wouldn't let me do it.

[Bobby Finger]

No, it's funny.

[Adam Arkin]

They resisted the wig, and then they resisted losing the wig.

[Bobby Finger]

Well, that's television in a nutshell right there.

[Janine Turner]

It's so true. But talk about, did you actually have to walk in that horrible mud on that street? And bare feet.

[Adam Arkin]

There was only one shot where I did, and it was something that I actually asked them to let me do. They were. The safety things that they were asking me to wear were more cumbersome and difficult to deal with than just muscling through one take. And bare feet. So I did do one with actual bare feet. And in honor of today, I just want you to know that I get bare feet. I wanted to be in character.

[Bobby Finger]

So for those of you who are just listening, Adam just showed us his size.

[Janine Turner]

17 foot Adam. You know, I have to just say on a quick side note, that the actor that played the man trapped in the. The firefighter was terrific.

[Bobby Finger]

He was a great.

[Janine Turner]

I don't know his name.

[Bobby Finger]

He was a Seattle. Seattle rep actor. And. And he was also a newscaster.

[Janine Turner]

He was really funny. And that dialogue about, you know, the north and the east and the west, the dialogue in this show was just on par. The. The dial. The dialogue was. Was simply superb. And you combine that with the quirkiness of the writing and the. In the music that we had.

[Bobby Finger]

His name was John Procaccino.

[Janine Turner]

Okay. He was terrific. Wasn't he good?

[Bobby Finger]

He came back multiple times.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah.

[Bobby Finger]

Really funny guy and a great guy.

[Janine Turner]

But I'm up here and you look out and you say, but if there's a fire, what could you do about it? Because I keep trying to tell him that I'm up here with these migraines.

[Bobby Finger]

And they don't care. You know what I was thinking as I was watching?

[Janine Turner]

It's just so funny. Everybody should watch it. It's a great escape.

[Bobby Finger]

It's great. You're right. But I was watching. When I was watching the episode, you know, things come back that you forget. And all of John. Chris Stevens art projects.

[Adam Arkin]

The.

[Bobby Finger]

The building of the Aurora Borealis is so beautiful. Woody Crocker again.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, the sets. The sets were amazing.

[Bobby Finger]

I'm talking about the sculpture. Right.

[Janine Turner]

Well, that's kind of a set.

[Bobby Finger]

Absolutely. It is a. But, but I mean, it's. It was so beautifully rendered and that they have these sunset shots against the. The landscape of, you know, we're in Washington. And it just was so magical. And it transcended anything, you know, that I could think of, the work that.

[Janine Turner]

Went into that, that they had to do for that. And then if you look at the intricate nature of even Adam. Of Adam. Of your house and all the. Everything in the background and Richard. I even thought it was. I live on a ranch, and I've had a camper that I've lived in on a ranch by myself, which is a whole nother story. But you had to crank the open, and you have to crank it at the top to let the air. So realistic. But the sets were amazing.

[Bobby Finger]

And he called it the Northern Lights. And over the series, over the years, he would do these different art projects, these installation pieces, and they were always beautifully done and summed up something. And the whole episode, for me, touched on so many elements that I. That I just found, you know, fascinating.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

It was an introduction to a universe. And the participants in the universe. Right there. He was building sort of a universe.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Well, and there's the whole one last shot. There's that last shot when they're. When the townspeople are standing there and everyone's talking about the scope, about the sculpture. And that kind of, to me, kind of represented. It was like, wow. It's this universe of people that are so different, that have come together and just live together and exist. It was really beautiful.

[Janine Turner]

And I love metaphysics. It's one of my favorite things in the world. And that dialogue when you say what is the roar borealis? And John Corbett says, well, you know, it's electrons and protons that come together with other particles. And you know, he's giving this whole little speech. But there's the whole spiritual element of the show, which I think you mentioned earlier, this kind of metaphys connection of these. I mean, oh my gosh, there's so many signs. I get that you just have to pay attention to them. But the fact that the two of you, Richard and your character and John Corbett's character, that y' all were in. In touch enough with what sort of the spiritual world was telling you in your dream sequences and you followed that, that's a message in itself too, don't you think, Richard? I mean, listening to what the universe is telling you, so to speak.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Absolutely. And that's why I brought up the point about this was the second episode ever shot. Because here we are, how many years later talking about this and reliving it and our experiences and we're still connected.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

So, you know, it was not by, you know, it wasn't by accident. I mean, we've all done tons and tons of shows and are you still in touch with those people? Do you really know what they're doing or. You know, it's like Adam and I didn't plan to be white bearded together, but we are so. But you know, we're still very much connected. It's like seeing old friends.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, man.

[Adam Arkin]

It was about community and acceptance and a kind of gentle inclusion and completely free of cynicism which most. We're a project with that level of intelligence nowadays it's very hard to find anything that doesn't have at least a thread of cynicism.

[Bobby Finger]

You're so right. It's my pet peeve, especially this year, being all what's going on in the world. There's so much cynicism even in good works, even in shows that I kind of like. But at their heart they're cynical and I find it disappointing, which is why it's amazing to me that Northern Exposure is attracting all these, these new fans.

[Janine Turner]

Because it's a benevolent universe.

[Bobby Finger]

As Jo, you know, we had Josh Brand on as our second guest, as our first guest and he, you know, he talked about. What they used to talk about was that it was, they were, they called it a benevolent universe where anyone could get along and you could do anything in the, in the fictional town of Sicily, as long as there wasn't malice behind it. Right. Which was just such a great way to describe it.

[Janine Turner]

And there's such a level of acceptance, Acceptance, acceptance in the end.

[Bobby Finger]

And Richard, like what you were saying about the community coming together to look at Chris Stevens Corbett's art piece, it's like here you have these, you know, not necessarily there's sophisticated, there's highbrow, there's low brow, which I think the show appealed to both highbrow and low brows. But in the town, you had that represented. You had people that didn't really didn't know the vernacular of art, but they could appreciate the power of symbolism. And then you had someone, you know, who could articulate what it was they were see, and that they all got along. And then you have Cynthia Geary's Shelley, who was the last person you would think that would really get the impact of that, that piece. And she's just like, I get it, I'm into it. I think that's a great.

[Janine Turner]

I love the stars. Or didn't she say something?

[Bobby Finger]

Something like that. It was really great.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful.

[Janine Turner]

How about the location work? Did you enjoy the location work, Richard, out there by the, the mountains and the, the water and land?

[Bobby Finger]

No.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

It was the first time I realized that location as a character.

[Bobby Finger]

Absolutely.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

And I had never thought of it that way. And part of the reason it looked so beautiful, the show was because of locations. You couldn't have replicated that in Los Angeles at all.

[Bobby Finger]

I think it's the first time on network TV that landscape was a character that I can think of.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

You're talking about a lot of those shots. They were movie esque.

[Bobby Finger]

That's the other thing I say it was the cinematizing of television or the at least part of the beginning of it.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Yes. Yeah. So I, I love. And also too, you know, as an actor, you get to go fly first class someplace and when you get there, somebody hands you an envelope of money to a car and they just say, show up and day after tomorrow and we're shooting.

[Bobby Finger]

Right.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Okay.

[Bobby Finger]

Or, or you got three days off and you can do whatever you want in Seattle and show up on Friday.

[Janine Turner]

Seattle was so fresh, beautiful, so beautiful.

[Adam Arkin]

You can get that in the CIA, but there's a huge level of risk.

[Janine Turner]

Like your life. The one thing I told my daughter is, the one thing I said, the one thing you cannot do is join the CIA. Just don't do it. But Adam, how did you enjoy working in Seattle and on the set?

[Adam Arkin]

I love, I absolutely loved it. First of all, I loved Seattle, the city, but it was the first time. It was the first time I'd ever spent time in the Pacific Northwest. And I over romanticized it back then. I felt like flying to Seattle and coming in and seeing the landscape there. I felt like we were like a hop, skip, and a jump away from the Yukon. I was like. I really felt like I was in Jack London territory.

[Bobby Finger]

Well, that's why it worked. That. You know, that's why.

[Adam Arkin]

So exotic to me. You know, that's why it worked.

[Bobby Finger]

And we should remind, you know, the audience on, you know, that. That even though the show took place in. In Alaska, we shot it in. We shot the exteriors in the north, in the Cascades of Washington, and we had a sound.

[Janine Turner]

We stayed in the Timber Lodge Hotel. Did y' all ever have to stay in the Timber Lodge Hotel, which was like an old business. An old business complex that they turned in? It was like a. It was like a Motel 6. But somehow it had some charm.

[Bobby Finger]

A little bit.

[Janine Turner]

Not much, but it had some.

[Bobby Finger]

But I. I remember running around with both of you guys on the. And having some really crazy, debauched weekends in Seattle.

[Janine Turner]

I wasn't invited to those. Well, you.

[Bobby Finger]

You weren't party girl.

[Adam Arkin]

We were.

[Janine Turner]

That's true. I wasn't.

[Bobby Finger]

We were.

[Janine Turner]

I went out to my horse.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

We had. We had a good time. Remember, we started in Bellevue. The first sound stage was in Bellevue.

[Bobby Finger]

That's right.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, it always was for this episode.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Redmond.

[Janine Turner]

Well. Well, we. It was in Redmond. It was always the same soundstage.

[Bobby Finger]

No, we had found a different soundstage for the first season and the first two seasons in Bellevue. And then we moved.

[Janine Turner]

I don't remember that at all. Yeah, I thought it was always Redmond.

[Bobby Finger]

No, no. We were in a little place first.

[Janine Turner]

We were.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Yeah.

[Bobby Finger]

Anyway, then we moved to Redmond, where we. Where we lived out our time, where they.

[Janine Turner]

Wow.

[Bobby Finger]

And we talked about that.

[Janine Turner]

I don't remember that at all.

[Bobby Finger]

The show was. Once it became a bonafide hit, all these engineers showed up and started shoring up the ceiling like they didn't care before. But once we were a hit, they needed to protect their asset.

[Janine Turner]

Adam, go back to talking to us about developing your character because it was so rich.

[Adam Arkin]

There was so much built into the way he was written that I just felt that I could throw myself into it. And because of his, I chose to not know myself that much about what was true and what was false about him. I just kind of stayed. I went with the flow of the fact that they were kind of making things up for him. As they wrote him. And I kind of loved that. I loved that freedom, and it informed the way I approached him, and I think it even informed the way I. I played him, you know, take to take. I've never played a character where I felt more free to be spontaneous or do anything that came into my head again, as long as there was no malice involved.

[Bobby Finger]

And I love the contrast of you being this, like, you know, dim sum connoisseur out in the middle of the bush, and you're making me these meals, and I being the New York, you know, New York.

[Janine Turner]

Y' all knew the same restaurant. Five cities. What was it? Five Cities.

[Bobby Finger]

I forget. I don't know if it was real, but I remember I wrote down a line that I just thought was so funny when Adam says, I was there readying a cream sauce with a buku Lovely from Pleiku when Charlie came out of nowhere and ambushed our kitchen. Such a great.

[Janine Turner]

I mean, so do you think he really fought in Vietnam? Did he, you think?

[Adam Arkin]

I think he did because. Because of his exchanges with Menophil later. They're kind of exchanging knowledgeable intel about the experience that seemed to prove he was actually there and just.

[Janine Turner]

And just wanting to be away. How many of us can relate to wanting to just be away?

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, it's a huge fantasy.

[Janine Turner]

And my great, great, Great, great grandfather J.B. gantt left some letters behind and talked about going out into the fields and the wild plains of Texas and chasing coyotes on his horse in the middle of the night. And then he talked about taxes starting. They started the tax, the pigs and the this and the that. And then he said, the oak. How about your freedom now? You know, he was like, we don't even have any freedom anymore. But it's so hard in this universe now of cellular to really have a place where you can go and be in the middle of the nowhere. And I watched your character in the middle of nowhere, and I really kind of relate. I love that kind of feeling, but that's hard to find now. But I think in. In. In the 90s, you could still sort of of hide out. How many people do you think are really hiding out in Alaska in the middle of nowhere?

[Bobby Finger]

I think Alaska is one. You can still kind of do it.

[Janine Turner]

But maybe with drones and everything now.

[Bobby Finger]

Well, yeah, you're right. I mean, you could track down anyone on the planet. There's no one. There's nowhere to hide. But you could definitely.

[Janine Turner]

I was so rich, I just kind of want to envelop myself in that sort of escapism.

[Adam Arkin]

Sometimes it was. It was another thing that I think you talked about the character being a place, but the location itself lent itself. I think for every actor that made the trip up there, it helped. Unplugging and making that trip and entering a part of the country that a lot of people hadn't spent a lot of time in. And it really was like going away to sort of freedom art camp, you know?

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. I always say there were, like, nar scenes, no acting required. You know, like when you're out in the. In the. In a frozen tundra and you're supposed to be freezing and you're actually freezing, it's like you don't. There's no thoughts. It's just I'm present, trying to, you know, survive.

[Janine Turner]

And also, there's an interesting element of being. You were incredibly scared of Adam at the beginning.

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

And you wanted to, you know, Maggie came in and put the locks on for you. And then later, you were entranced by him. You just thought he was. You were. You were happy. Fleischmann was actually dancing at the end and gave Maggie a.

[Bobby Finger]

Why do you think that is? That's interesting because I think that speaks to kind of the, you know, part of his evolution about a part of him opening. Because he was so disappointed when no one believed him that he saw Adam. And then when we go back there, which is such a sweet moment, we go back to find him and I try to prove it's you and Ed. Right? Yeah. And we. And we find a garlic press.

[Janine Turner]

I guess the mid show, like, I think there was something about a garlic press. And then we find it. Right.

[Bobby Finger]

I mean, there's something the. Oh, it's. You know, I find it a very significant. And, you know, even though it's an accident, per Richard Cummings, that it was the last show, it sets up the future of the series in a great way. It just really kind of clarifies a lot of the themes. And in terms of Fleischman, it's. It's the beginning, really, of him opening.

[Janine Turner]

He kind of accepts, well, the mystery where you are a little bit. Fleishman sort of got a little bit excited.

[Bobby Finger]

Absolutely. And the mystery of life.

[Adam Arkin]

Don't you think he was also relieved that there was somebody in Sicily that was more. More irascible than he was.

[Bobby Finger]

That's a good point. Yeah, you're right.

[Janine Turner]

That's right.

[Bobby Finger]

Talk about this guy so he doesn't.

[Janine Turner]

Scream at me, I told you to quit talking. And then, of course, stop talking. Oh, my God. And Richard, what about You. I mean, tell us more about your character development.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Well, I'll tell you something. You know, Adam, you mentioned that you and Josh had worked together, and he had something in his head, and, you know, it formulated into what it became. Josh Brand is one of the most sensitive, intuitive individuals, creatively, that I've ever met. He really watches people and listens to people because he came into my audition when I read for this. And Megan Bramond, who was the casting director, if you guys remember, back then, I'd known for forever because she worked with us when I had done a movie with my friend Robert Townsend called Hollywood Shuffle, and Megan worked with us on that. So when I came in red and Josh sat in on my audition, and Megan said to me later on, josh doesn't sit in on people's auditions. It was one of those things. Again, he's in all of us. Josh Brand saw something in Eugenine, so something in you. Rob obviously saw something in you, Adam, and saw something in me.

[Bobby Finger]

You're right. He was great at casting, I have to say. I. I don't. It was pretty rare that anyone showed up on that set that wasn't really interesting and right for their part.

[Janine Turner]

And I thank him often, even recently, I texted him again, I said, thank you for believing to me, you know, thank you for believing in me that I could portray this character. Because it was such a gift, you know, the show was such a gift.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

And just to answer your question, Janine, he saw something in me that he felt and saw in Bernard. And I'm not sure what it exactly is, but he definitely, definitely saw that. And I just enjoyed the idea of being someone who. This character who came into this space and truly was just accepted and my. My connection in life unfolded in front of me, guys, and in front of everybody. Finding a brother that I didn't know I had and becoming friends and coming back, constantly coming back and, you know, being drawn to the place.

[Bobby Finger]

It's such a great conceit that the way you guys were connected, that you were so, you know, linked in such a deep way that was just such.

[Janine Turner]

A talking at the same time. I think when we're playing poker with John Coleman, the four of us were playing poker, and then you leave and you say the same thing at the same time, and you turn around at the same time and really, really.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

I mean, I got it reading it on the page, but that's why, again, I go back to, you know, Peter o'. Fallon. Him helping us understand that rhythm and that connection was really, really special.

[Bobby Finger]

Peter had A great, you know, he's, you know, Adam's like this as well as a director. It's like he has a great eye. They both have great eyes, but Peter has a great eye and, and also could speak, that could talk the talk in terms of psychology of the characters. And so that combination really, his episodes, Peter o' Fallon's episodes stand out. Adam, do you. What, what season did you direct that show?

[Adam Arkin]

The episode, I want to say season three, Family Feud. I think it was season three.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah. Because did you now that was in fact your directorial debut?

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I had again, the previous relationship on the other show was helpful in that I had been observing on A Year in the Life with a desire to direct. They let me shadow and go into post and. But then the show didn't have a long enough life for that to come to fruition. The credits kind of carried over into Northern and I kind of reintroduced my desire to do it. And once the show had been up and running for a while, they gave me a shot.

[Bobby Finger]

And how was that? I remember you being very comfortable, but also you were nervous. You didn't. I just think you didn't want to mess it up. Right. But you kind of were pretty comfortable.

[Adam Arkin]

There were aspects of it that I was comfortable with. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail about it, but I had the rug pulled out from under me in terms of one key collaborative relationship. Oh.

[Bobby Finger]

Coming back to me as soon as you said that, I knew what you were talking about.

[Adam Arkin]

And I had a couple of days where I really had to navigate the fact that I had no help in an area where I really needed help. Being a first time director and you know, sort of muscle through that. Once the problem, once people became aware of the problem it was addressed, I didn't feel that I had the wherewithal being again, being a first time director. Being a first time director. Director to address it myself. But. But it, it was addressed and then things got, things definitely got easier after.

[Janine Turner]

That's so vague. You were all gonna wonder.

[Adam Arkin]

I'm gonna keep it vague because the people involved are still around and working and I, I don't need to, I don't need to make life any more difficult for anybody. But it was, it was, it was a really unfortunate first step to get off on with this person who I needed to be able to rely on and ultimately couldn't. But that aside the response from the cast, everybody was really inclusive and supportive in game and I owe the show and everybody connected with it a huge Debt of gratitude because it's allowed me to keep pursuing another avenue of creativity that I really enjoy. Yeah.

[Bobby Finger]

And I remember the episode turning out really well. And for sure, I knew we had fun doing it.

[Janine Turner]

Well, you know, I think it's a minefield walking into a series where actors are established in their roles. Episodic television. I think for directors in a show that's been around for a couple years, that's a minefield. It can be very tricky because the actors know exactly what they want to do and they're like, well, we all respected and had worked with you, so. And we respected mostly most of the directors as well. But it's tricky business.

[Adam Arkin]

Hopefully back, you know, hopefully vice versa. Like I having been, you know, an on again, off again company member of that show, I knew everybody's familiarity with their role. I wasn't there to, you know, reinvent the wheel. And, you know, other than just conceptual ideas from the people that knew their character things to maybe try, I wasn't certainly reshaping anybody's vision of what they were playing, you know.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Right.

[Janine Turner]

And Richard, you're directing too. You've done a lot of directing. Talk to us about how much, how you. You got in. You were directing before?

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

I was directing before I. That's funny again, universe, bringing people together. I was living a double life when I was doing the show. I was acting, but I also had a production company here in LA and we were shooting music videos and commercials and my partner, Carl Craig, when I.

[Bobby Finger]

Was up in Seattle, God rest in peace, Carl Craig.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

And that's what I was gonna say. Fast forward to years later, about four years. What's about four years ago now, Rob?

[Bobby Finger]

That's about four years ago. Yeah. I had worked with him on a show and he was a great guy.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Rob was directing. Rob was directing by chance. Was directing a show. My ex partner was producing and they got to spend, I don't know, you guys did nine episodes together or something?

[Bobby Finger]

We did, yeah. And he was just. Yeah, terrific guy and terrific producer. Really knew how to stretch a block.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Yes, he did. But, you know, I directed a bunch of music videos, directed commercials, theater. I just like the creative process. I just like working with folks. And like Rob mentioned, we did this charity event down at the theater here in LA back in August to raise money for the 988 suicide hotline. And it was based on Donny Hathaway, the singer. Donny Hathaway's life, loosely based.

[Bobby Finger]

Richard did a beautiful job. He made something. He just made such a lovely Night and we raised a lot of money and awareness. I didn't even know there was a 988 hotline.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, I. I don't think I knew that either. There's something about actors and directing, because I directed a short film later in Texas, and I actually put my daughter in it. Sort of like a young Tatum o' Neill paper moon character. She was only about four or five, and she walked up to me, she goes, mommy, do you want me to cry a tear? Go for it. You know how. If you could manage to do that, But. And now I want to direct. I've written a musical that I'm going to step out. I was going to star in it, but I'm stepping out to direct it. But there's. There's something about actors who've been on the scene for a lengthy period of time. We just kind of have a. An eye for things. And I learned a lot from you.

[Bobby Finger]

I think, Adam, you can speak. Both of you guys can speak to this. It's like, there's something, you know, if you're. If you have the. The requisite, you know, if you. If you're bent toward being a director, having acted is really helpful because you understand, you know, I did a movie with that Martin Scorsese was acting in, and he was really nervous, you know, and so I could. Between takes, I could just get him going, and he would tell me all these stories. But I asked him at one point, I said, why are you doing this? Like. Cause he didn't. He didn't seem to love acting. He just was. And he said, I do it because I want to know what you guys go through, right? And. Which was so cool, I thought, what. I mean, who does that?

[Janine Turner]

We used to always talk about the directors that were fresh out of USC film school and they learned the technical aspects of directing, but they had no clue how to work with actors.

[Bobby Finger]

Well, that's what I'm getting at. And that's why. What do you guys think about actor, as a rule, actor being directors?

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

I think it's. I think if somebody's really, really, like you said, if they've got the bend, if they've got the art to it, and it's not just something they want to do because somebody said you should be directing, but if you've got it in you, I think it's. It's having both sides of that coin is really, really, really helpful, because you know how to talk to folks, right? You know how to communicate with folks. You know how to get things out of folks. So I think it's really, really helpful.

[Janine Turner]

I always say I'm a frustrated cinematographer, and I learned it from our cameraman, David Fredericks. I was going to Italy to film Cliffhanger, and I purchased this Canon camera in the day, which, by the way, we need to talk about that Northern Exposure was filmed in film, and it's just gorgeous. I'm still a lover of film, but I had film in my camera and these interchangeable lenses. And David Fredericks, our cameraman, was sitting on camera. He looked down at me and he said, remember, do you want to take a picture or make a picture? I was like, oh, yes. So I went all over Italy and, you know, making photo. You know, making. Making pictures. So I. I relate to directing, obviously. There's the acting and all of that that I really enjoy, but also just the cinematic aspect.

[Bobby Finger]

Right.

[Janine Turner]

It's very exciting for me, the picture.

[Bobby Finger]

Adam's a photographer, or he was anyway, you know, and I don't know about Richard, but it. They did. I started photography in my 20s, and it's what led me to directing. Because you have to tell a story. Like, I mean, think what Dave was saying to you is, you have to tell a story in a picture, you know, and if you can tell a story in one frame, then you can do it in 24.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, it's a combo of working with actors and cinematography, Wouldn't you say, Adam?

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Editing.

[Janine Turner]

The editing process as well.

[Adam Arkin]

It's a vocabulary. All of it comes into play, and the more you do, the more you learn. Like, you're creating raw material for yourself to go into the editing room and. And it's like shopping for good ingredients. You know, if you get home and that soup that you wanted to make doesn't quite turn out the way you wanted it to, you go back and say, like, next time I go to the store, I'm gonna know what I got to pick up, Right?

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, for sure.

[Janine Turner]

And you have. When you walk into episodic television, as a director, not only do you have to work with the actors who know their characters, but also the cinematographers there who's been on every episode. So how is that working with cinematographers that are very established? I always thought that dynamic was very interesting behind the scenes. To watch a cinematographer with a director, you know, are they gonna. To work hand in hand or is there. You know, the cinematographer may want. He has to own his own.

[Bobby Finger]

It can be tricky. It can be tricky. I think you can. You know, I've walked on sets where, as an unknown director and the DP will test me for a day or two. I think most of us, Adam, have gone through that, you know, and you have to kind of, you know, you have to take over a moving. You have to take command of something that's already going and yet do it in a way that everyone still is, you know, participating with you.

[Janine Turner]

I had to do that on my directorial debut. I had a lot of crew members from Walker, Texas Ranger. Right. They'd never had a female director before, so I was out there having to, you know, carry. Carry the lights with them and just kind of prove that I could. I own my space, that I had the right to be there. But is it tricky, guys, you know, going in and working with these cinematographers that are established in episodic television?

[Adam Arkin]

It can be. It can be. I think it requires a certain level of. It requires a combination of, I think, confidence and also putting your ego to one side and sussing out who it is you're working with. But I try to make it very clear that I'm not there again, to reinvent the wheel. If you come on as a guest director on a show that's been established, you're not there to change the tone or go in and suggest that they start shooting things or lighting things in an entirely different way. That being said, I also want to feel that I have a certain amount of. Of expressive flexibility in terms of shot design. And finding a way that my ideas can be woven into the established fabric of the show is part of the job. More often than not, it's gone extraordinarily well for me because I make it really clear to not only the DPs, but the crew in general that I want what they have. I want. I want their input, I want their suggestions. I can't guarantee I'm always going to implement every idea that anybody has, but I want to. I want to. I want people to be engaged, and I want them to feel like their love, their expertise and experience is something that is not only encouraged, but absolutely necessary to the process.

[Janine Turner]

Collaboration, right?

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

If you're approaching a.

[Adam Arkin]

That way, more often than not, it's. It's pretty rare that you're going to have problems with people.

[Bobby Finger]

And I felt that way. I worked with Richard recently, and there was a. It was a staged benefit, but we had. There was a filmed component, and he and I had to shoot a couple scenes, and it was just he and I in a camera. And it was such a lovely day, you know, just collaborating. You know, it's like we both were throwing out what you know, whatever worked, worked and which I, I, you know, that's basically my motto. It's like, I don't care who has the idea, as long as it's the best one. You know, we'll go with it. And you, you have that same approach that I noticed.

[Janine Turner]

Richard, what about locations? Locations are such a big part of it too, wouldn't you say?

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Locations. My first, I mean, light bulb going off moment was when we were out in the mountains and I'm like looking around after I, you know, then. But then seeing it on screen, I go, part of what made Northern really, really special is the location. Yeah, it was, it was kind of like one of the first shows. I think, if I can, if I'm remembering this correctly, not obviously on the scale of Game of Thrones, but like, Game of Thrones was a, Almost a movie every episode.

[Bobby Finger]

Absolutely.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Northern was kind of a small movie.

[Bobby Finger]

Well, that's the way the guys wanted. I mean, they, they set out, you know, they were, they were inspired by this guy, Bill Forsyth, who was making some interesting independent movies back at the time.

[Adam Arkin]

Local Hero.

[Bobby Finger]

Local Hero, you know, that was.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Favorite movies.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, A Fish out of Water story and, and Gregory's Girl and, and some really fun movies. But, you know, there. They wanted to try to make an independent movie each, each week. And they fought for it, you know, and they were, you know, again, as Janine was saying, you know, one of the pluses was that because we were a summer series and nobody was taking us seriously or caring about what we were doing, they were able to get away with a lot of stuff.

[Janine Turner]

Well, it's just like talking about young so much.

[Bobby Finger]

Right? Yeah. Like, who does that?

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Right, right, right.

[Bobby Finger]

And then put them on screen.

[Janine Turner]

Driving a truck.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Yes, exactly.

[Adam Arkin]

With them on screen, being under the radar is a great place to be for a show that's, that's establishing itself.

[Bobby Finger]

Absolutely.

[Adam Arkin]

Because, because they leave you alone.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

You're right.

[Bobby Finger]

And it's hard nowadays. Everything's so scrutinized and, and you know, back then they didn't even. Summer series was a very rare thing. So now it's like, it's all. The schedule's all year round, so if they're stepping up with a pay with, with, with the checkbook, you know, it's hard to get away with anything.

[Janine Turner]

Well, we could do things like Maggie. Okay. Donald smoked, she drank.

[Bobby Finger]

Did she smoke?

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, she smoked right when Rick got hit by the satellite. And you know, you come, she's smoking all these cigarettes and drinking, and it was just a great, great Character, Right. And then I remember Matt Nadella coming up to me and saying, you know, you might, we might have to cool it with the drinking and the smoking. I'm like, why? It's so cool.

[Bobby Finger]

The show probably became a hit then.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah. Oh yeah. Just like they came up to me and said, yeah. Anyway, I won't tell you what they said to me right now. We won't go there.

[Bobby Finger]

But, but any other.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

You mentioned Matt Nadella. It's funny you mentioned Matt. Matt. Because Matt was the one who came on set when we were having that laughing.

[Bobby Finger]

Absolutely.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, yes. He would do that to us.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

And he, he literally stood there with his arms crossed like, you're in trouble.

[Janine Turner]

I got that said. O.

[Adam Arkin]

It was Nick Mark was the director of that episode, right?

[Bobby Finger]

Oh, yes.

[Adam Arkin]

It was Nick who got so, so angry.

[Janine Turner]

Which episode?

[Bobby Finger]

The one that he, that we were laughing. That we were all laughing.

[Janine Turner]

Oh, it wasn't this one.

[Bobby Finger]

No, no.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nick Mark, I think also did. When Rick came back as a dog.

[Bobby Finger]

He did a few for sure. He was, he was a good guy.

[Adam Arkin]

You were talking earlier about the relationship between directors and cinematographers and there's, there's a great anecdote about a first time director working with an established dp and he was watching the DP light the scene that they had just rehearsed and he goes over to the DP at a certain point, he goes, you know, everything, everything looks good. But, but I have to ask, you know, just to do due diligence here. Like, what is, like what's the source of all the lighting supposed to be in the. This, in this set? Like, where's the light coming from? And the DP turns around and says, the same place the music's coming from.

[Janine Turner]

And you know, speaking of lighting, I am not a fan of what's happening today in cinematography. I can't tell you how many movies I've worked on recently. Big movies like Patsy Movie about Patsy Cline. I portrayed Patsy Cline's mother, you know, whatnot. And they're like, oh, we're just gonna light it and post. And we're walking around in the dark. I mean, we're in this like, living room and it's dark and I can't really see anybody goes, yeah, but we're just, we're just gonna go light it and post. I'm like, oh, okay. And then when they do, it just becomes this kind of banal sort of everything lit. And then there's this new, there's this 3D business. They're doing right? Where every. I don't really even know that I even understand it, but. But everything is so lit. It's like we're back to the big glaring lights of the 1940s. Because they want to have everything in the background lit. So there doesn't seem to be any sort of Rembrandt sort of touches. Are y'. All. You know what I'm talking about.

[Bobby Finger]

I see a lot of great. I know what you're talking about. But I also see a lot of great cinematography going on in tv. I mean. And that.

[Janine Turner]

But you understand some of these other ones. There's just. Everything's just.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

I think you're right.

[Bobby Finger]

And you're probably going to.

[Janine Turner]

Has no character with AI you'll probably.

[Bobby Finger]

See more and more of that where, you know. And it ends up becoming a un. It can become a uniformed, homogenized aesthetic, I guess.

[Janine Turner]

There you go. It's a uniform, homogenized aesthetic.

[Bobby Finger]

Right.

[Adam Arkin]

The opposite of Northern Exposure.

[Bobby Finger]

The opposite of Northern Exposure.

[Janine Turner]

We were not a uniformed Adam.

[Bobby Finger]

Do you shoot anything on film ever, anywhere?

[Adam Arkin]

There was a section of an episode of Sugar, this show on Apple that we did that involved Colin Farrell as a private detective who's investigating a lot kind of Chinatown a little bit. This legendary film producer, sort of like a John Huston character. And there's a film retrospective in the middle of the episode where they feature a movie that this guy made in the 50s. And Richard Ratkowski, the DP that was working with me on that, pitched the idea of shooting the movie within the show on film to give it that quality. And it freaked everybody at Apple out. They were coming up with all sorts of reasons why it wouldn't work and we couldn't do it. And Richard is knowledgeable enough that he was able to put it on paper how it would work. And it did. It provided a really striking, contrasting look to the rest of the show. Not that the rest of the show didn't look great, but you could really sense it automatically. Felt of a different time and era.

[Bobby Finger]

But in terms of what Jeanine was just saying, I feel like most. If I think of the stuff of yours recently that I. I've watched that I've loved, they seem really well lit and, you know, some Kia Scara.

[Janine Turner]

And I don't know if I work.

[Adam Arkin]

With some great, great dps.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

If I see one more shot, though, of all the light coming through the windows and the actors. If you're the actor that happens to be receiving the light coming from the window, you know what I Mean, you're lit. If your back is to the window, you're completely dark. I see that all the time, especially in these periods pieces where it's. It's. I mean, I. I'm not saying there's not great cinematography out there, but there is this news sort of way. It's not the, like, let me turn on the lamps and create a feel in the room and. And Adam and Richard, I know we have to close up here, but do you prefer film or this high def? I will just say. I'll go on record saying, high def is not a woman's friend at all. I really.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

And.

[Janine Turner]

And. But I looked at. But I looked at this episode in particular and it was so beautiful. And it just dawned on me, like, oh, it was film. What do y' all prefer?

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

There's a big difference between vinyl and digital, and I think there's a big difference between digital takes and film. It's just. It's just deeper, it's warmer, it breathes. To me, digital doesn't breathe.

[Adam Arkin]

Agreed. I think there are. There are ways really good DPs just as really good. Sound engineers can take digital recording and nudge it closer to an analog feel. And there's certainly DPs that know how to use light in a digital setting that gives it more depth and more warmth. But it's pretty hard to match the results of film. The other thing about shooting on film, it sounds odd to say, but it's a precious commodity. It's limited. And so there's a kind of need to be on point when you're shooting on film. That digital is just. It's just, you know, micro bits and you can roll forever. And it can lend a kind of casual approach to everything. That sometimes knowing that you're working with limited resources can just sharpen everybody in a way.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

I agree to multiple cameras shooting with multiple cameras and, you know, multiple monitors.

[Janine Turner]

And that's not a woman's friend either. You know, I was on Friday Night Lights, and they didn't rehearse. I did a season on that show. They didn't rehearse. And you walked down and there were three cameramen looking like poltergeists that just followed you around. And there were really no lights or anything. It was just sort of go and do it.

[Bobby Finger]

Peter Berg told me they shot an episode. They used to shoot that show so fast because they didn't rehearse, as you know, they would just. They would take a little company. They'd show up with three, they'd jump out of the van. They'd give the actors basic marks, and they'd start shooting with three cameras, and they'd get in the van and go to the next location. He told me they shot an episode in three and a half days. And he came down to the crew and. And chastised his, you know, the heads of his department, saying, don't ever do that again, because they're gonna. If we can do it in three and a half days, they're gonna make us do it in three and a half days.

[Janine Turner]

And I had a big. I had a big crying scene, and that's hard to get to do that quickly.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Right. You're right.

[Bobby Finger]

You have to be on your. But I guess to Adam's point, I mean, like, in film, you have to be.

[Janine Turner]

Improvisation can be fun, though. I mean, and. But there's some actors that do it really well, and some actors who don't. You can tell that they're not on their game.

[Bobby Finger]

But I'll say this. In Plains Devil's Advocates, there are a lot of cool things about digital photography that really make life easy and things you can do and post and. And ways to manipulate it.

[Janine Turner]

And.

[Bobby Finger]

And as Adam said, if you have someone who has. Who knows what they're doing, you can make it look pretty good. And it's getting better and better.

[Janine Turner]

Well, I like, they can go in and take your wrinkles out.

[Bobby Finger]

Absolutely. And the bags are.

[Janine Turner]

I'm like, how does. What's her name? Oh, the Cate Blanchet. Kate Blitz. Is it Kate Blanchett?

[Adam Arkin]

Yeah.

[Janine Turner]

I'm like, wait. She's so flawless. What happened here? What happened here? And then I realized, you know, now that they're doing all these movies where De Niro is suddenly 17 years of age, you know, they can just go in and make everybody young again.

[Bobby Finger]

I'm like, there's. There's a silver lining. All right, so we got to wrap it up. Hey, guys.

[Janine Turner]

Anything back?

[Bobby Finger]

Wait, but anything. Any. Any memories or anything you want to share before we wind it up? And, yeah, we'd love to have you back in future episodes, if you're willing.

[Adam Arkin]

First of all, I would love to come back. And if we were to come back, I'd love to come back with Richard and see if we could get Valerie involved as well.

[Bobby Finger]

We're definitely going to reach out to.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Her and laugh for an hour.

[Bobby Finger]

Yeah, we can laugh and get in trouble. The three of us will laugh and Janine will yell at us.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah, I'll be the mat in a.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

There you go.

[Bobby Finger]

Well, thank you, guys.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Yeah. I'd love to come back. Absolutely.

[Janine Turner]

Yeah.

[Bobby Finger]

You guys. You guys are great. I'm so happy that both of you are doing such cool things in the world and that I get to see you and hang out with you, albeit not enough. But when I do, I'm all. My heart's always filled, so.

[Janine Turner]

Well, I'm going to. We're going to be in LA actually doing some press, so maybe we could do a podcast all in the same room in Los Angeles. Angeles. That'd be fun, for sure. Wouldn't that be fun?

[Bobby Finger]

All right, guys, many thanks.

[Janine Turner]

Thank you, guys.

[Adam Arkin]

I want to play some music with you at some point. I'm. I'm a. A wannabe drummer.

[Bobby Finger]

I know you are. We keep. Well, we were at a couple parties. I think we tried to get. Didn't we try to get you to play? Or did you play?

[Adam Arkin]

I. I don't know if I did or not.

[Bobby Finger]

All right, well, next one.

[Janine Turner]

And I sing now, too. You know, my Broadway.

[Bobby Finger]

You sing.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

You have another.

[Janine Turner]

So we'll have to sing together, so. Oh, I have an idea of what I want to do. Should I tell you now? In closing, should I tell you? I've had this idea forever. I want to do a Northern Exposure Christmas album where all of us sing. Each one of us sings a Christmas song.

[Bobby Finger]

What about the Jews?

[Janine Turner]

Barbra Streisand did A Christmas Cottage. You can do Jingle Bells.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

You know how to handle that.

[Janine Turner]

Jingle Bell. There are a lot of songs, like the duet Baby, It's Cold Outside.

[Adam Arkin]

Right?

[Janine Turner]

You know?

[Bobby Finger]

Absolutely.

[Janine Turner]

Okay.

[Bobby Finger]

We could call it a holiday album. How about that?

[Janine Turner]

There you go. Okay. Holiday. But Barbra Streisand did it, so as we. Barbara did it.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

You can do it.

[Bobby Finger]

Sign off.

[Janine Turner]

Yes. Thank you. He's looking at me. No, no, I'm saying as we sign off. Yes, sir. Oh, okay. I'm gonna do the sign off now. All right, well, this has been fun.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

Great to see and great to see you guys.

[Janine Turner]

Great. Great seeing you, Adam and Richard and Rob. It was a lot of fun, and we look forward to seeing you. Yeah. Wonderful to see you. We look forward to next week, and you can come back. And right now, we're going to sign off with o' Connell and Fleischman.

[Bobby Finger]

Actually, it should probably be Fleischman o'. Connell.

[Janine Turner]

I think in your dream as Fleisch, Northern Disclosure is a production with Evergreen.

[Bobby Finger]

Podcasts and executive produced by Paul Anderson.

[Richard Cummings Jr.]

And Scott McCarthy for Workhouse Media.

[Janine Turner]

Paramount is the new home of ufc. It isn't just combat, it's cinema.

[Bobby Finger]

Oh, my goodness.

[Janine Turner]

Unbelievable.

[Bobby Finger]

Are you not entertained?

[Janine Turner]

UFC on Paramount, streaming this January.